Begins to sweat and then pulls an identification sized card from somewhere and hands it over. The non-glove wearing hand of the recipient of the card heats it to the point where Joker's special mix of chemical causes the card to explode with copious amounts of smoke. The Joker knows how long to wait for the card to blow up and uses the distraction to escape.
What would happen if free will was an illusion ? In such a case, what could be the upside of believing, at an individual scale, that we are indeed free ? Despite all the evidence of determinism’s considerable influence upon us ? Start to ponder about it and you will realize that, if you think with the same brain with which you think, then ANY bias affecting your reasoning on yourself will provoke the failure of said reasoning - since the medium through which you think is affected by the very same bias you are trying to identify. In other words, in a positive sense, it is impossible to think about oneself properly, just as a division by zero is meaningless : you can only be tending toward it, but never totally reach it. Unless you are ‘’perfect’’ - meaning, here, fully aware of everything about yourself, from the events that lead to your existence to the causes of who you became -, you can’t be fully un-biased. As an ad absurdo thought experiment, let’s imagine someone who has a perfectly unbiased view of themselves, and who would be able to retrace and understand the cause of each event leading to their current existence, and to who they are at this moment. What would actually happen if this person tried to think about why they are themselves ? Well, not only would they retrace a causal chain of events growing bigger and bigger by the second ; but ultimately, and whatever the complexity of the taken path might be, their introspection would only lead to a simple choice : ‘’what would I want to be, since I am really free to choose ?’’ And that’s where lies the hard limit of thought : a person capable of such a deep level of introspection would also be able to know the cause of their own choices. In that scenario, would it be their choice, or their acceptance of any given determinism ? Then the quest of becoming someone you choose to become would loop on itself indefinitely, since any attempt at ending it can only result in its failure. Nonetheless, there is another path : refusing to choose. Refusing any determinism. … Which means remaining trapped into your own introspection. Just as a Larsen of pure thought, the perfect consciousness of the very process with which thinking is being formed will eventually paralyze the mind. So, if this whole ‘’perfectly unbiased and reasoning human’’ story isn’t achievable, then maybe it is to protect our minds from such a fate ; much like the safety fuses for electronical devices, our incapacity of staring at ourselves without any bias could be a defense mecanism from the mind… against itself.
@@c-hd.8644 Free will is real. The only problem is that happens when a person can't act on them or won't remember doing it. A newborn has no bias of self A drunk man has no filter to say no intentional or NOT. Meaning his bias doesn't matter
@@Johncornwell103 I think we do not speak of the same thing : bias are no social restraints, but limitations to what we are able to think to. I agree, newborns have no prenotions of their own (though they will gain some very early), and drunk people lack those restraints ... Like dement old people, some kind of autists and so on. Doesn't mean they does not lack at least some of the nearly infinite abilities to look at their reality : a baby won't know that he/she is something apart of Mom for some time, a drunk person won't stop to be racist, blind or even born in some country, therefore not anywhere else. Not to mention raised by other people, and so on. What I call a bias isn't a filter but a horizon, a limit to what you can see ... And I don't think anyone could ever tell he/she knows everything. So, his/her free will won't be anything but the perception of being able to choose among its determinisms, lacking any other options avalaible he/she can't be aware of, due to his/her previous experiences. Not to mention that even if he/she was, as I said, ultimately a infinite choice of determinisms is nothing but the negation of free will too, because of the causality that lead to the choice.
"close your eyes and become aware of the thoughts your thinking" Me: *Does so* My mind: *Screams in a chorus of voices* Me: "Well that's not a good sign"
That's abnormal? I always have about a dozen different things running through my head, usually one of them is a music track. Stopping thinking and clearing my mind takes active effort. It's not different "voices" per se, but more many of the various problems I have, most of which I'm paid to solve, being a computer support tech. My mind is much like my desk, cluttered and always changing.
*Close eyes thinks of Waifu* Thinks of City, Chooses between Utah, Nevada, Washington and Ohio cities, was about to consider California ones when he said to focus on one. Chooses one. Says I don't have free will, my mind: Bullsh!+.
@@nyankers The joke is more along the lines of him knowing his victims are just strokes of ink on paper, so when this serious brooding man in a bat costume just tries to bring him to justice, you can see how comical it is.
@@monroerobbins7551 Sort of but in a much more dark and serious manner. Deadpool uses it to poke fun and be cooky, joker sees it as a reason to kill and maim and laugh about it.
Hehe not really but but this type of tactic is so often used in TH-cam comments. People who will defend or make excuses or arguments for or against the rest who logically decided it's good or bad for the right reasons, and then comes along some TH-camr saying the opposite. Probably because unconsciously they know they're the type who would do something the rest would disagree with, and thus be against him, so sneaky you tubers try to defend their actions in the comments before they even make them
@@davidninan88 /sigh *and this has been a PSA about texting/ commenting / following directions at the wrong time while driving. Remember kids, don't do it. if its important find a safe designated parking place to pull over. Otherwise, replying to messages can wait.*
Me: "And done" Game: "you have not assigned all of your skill points, by continuing you forfeit all left over skill points thus making the game harder." Me: "eh screw it what could go wrong." Me (later): "oh that's what could go wrong."
In hindsight, dumping everything into INT and using STR, DEX, and CHA as dump stats may have been a mistake. Also, picking Chaotic Good as an alignment didn't go as well. At least I wasn't stupid enough to go for the LG Paladin combo. Sadly, picking NPC as my class wasn't a good idea, either.
The quote is, "Now I may be just a super villain, lawyer." The "may" in that sentence creates ambiguity. It implies that he may not be a super villain.
It depends on the version of the Joker really, there are some versions of Joker who genuinely cannot help themselves (i swear i remember there's apparently a scene where Batman asks Joker to stop but Joker says "I can't I can't I can't!") and some versions who are in complete control of everything and yet decide to do the bad thing anyways (Injustice Joker)
@Agent J Bro, there are many situations where people got no control over what is happening in their lives. You could be educated and prepared and still not get that "dream job" or whatever position you were studying for. There are many problems in society, economy, politics, infrastructure and Laws/governance that could stand in the way of how successful an individual could be. You didn't/can't choose your reality, you make the best with what you got... And what's wrong with hopes and prayers?
@Agent J I don't know where you stand buddy but you need to come back to reality. You can be "Paralyzed by fear" or "believe bullshit" all you want, but if the economy of your country is bad, no amount of "choosing your reality" will help that or any other global issue. YOU can't "choose" to change problems in the world, especially when they affect your success... yes, YOUR SUCCESS.
@Agent J I don't know who you are, but even you have things that made you successful. You chose a lot, but not every thing that brought you to where you are today. Good People, educational degrees, political Influences, good healthcare, who knows but all these and many more contributed to your success. Say your country didn't provide enough of these things or not at all, say we take them away from you and have you grow up, what are you in the end of the day... well, a lot less successful than you are now. You can't choose your reality, but you can choose your path in life.
@Agent J there are many persons with horrible circumstances in their lives. Some of these persons turn out to be truly admirable persons and some become rich and famous through hard work and dedication. They suffered hardships in their lives that are just as hard as another person who does not succeed but they did through their own efforts. 'Identical' twins often have completely different lives. Why is that? Same lives and influences but different results. Your argument is invalid.
Ive pretty much always thought free will is impossible because humans are only capable of acting in response to either physical impulses or interpolated information
ImASpookyAndroid Isn’t it weird how the US is the only western country medieval enough to still kill people as punishment? The law is not for personal revenge, it’s supposed to be objective and yet the US as a whole still practises it.
bc the point of a legal system is to reform ppl, not erase them from existence. It's unbelievable to me that some states in the USA still use the death sentence
@Vishya Knewdat actually the death penalty for rape is a horrible idea because it has been proven that when there is a death penalty for rape the rapists are much more likely to kill their victims. That is why it is no longer used in rape cases
This might be my all time favorite video. It went from the run of the mill Because Science breakdown, to a deep introspective and philosophically-tied series of thought experiments that will affect many people. The music dropping made it so much more powerful, and I love how well you did with treating something seriously. People who never considered this and grasped the concept (or will later due to their interest in learning more) may now have their outlook on things drastically altered. Whether one has free will is an important part of religious understanding too, depending on one's faith and denomination. I've used this in my arsenal in different ways, and I hope others will make use of it too, or just learn more about it. It's so cool and concerning.
@@SalmonColoredSalmon6267 lol wow my memory is so bad that I don’t remember a damn thing about this video and it’s kinda nuts seeing my comment expressing how much I loved it. Might have to rewatch this lol. Just added your recommendation to my watch list. Thanks!
I applaud the effort and the factual basis, however I would like to say that a video such as this has a very superficial take on mental illness as a whole. I would like to say that, but then you brought it back around to displaying the sympathy you have for those who have been wrought by circumstance and turning it towards a mindfulness exercise that explains to the popular people that we are not different than those who we part our ways from (and more than that in a biopsychosocial reference!). There needs to be more of an understanding about these contexts of life, and there needs to be more funding to make it so that we all can feel comfortable in our own skin to evolve, to get better, and to better those around us. And if our compassion met no bounds, perhaps thought experiments such as these have a place in commiting all of those objectives to reality. In sum, I applaud you, and I would ask that you would use this as an opportunity to increase awareness to an organization that advocates for and educates the popular opinion on what mental illness is and how it affects every person in society. NAMI is a perfect example, and deserves to be supported as much as possible. Please share this in your further examination of the comments on your videos, I'm sure it will help the cause that I can see you have a great insight upon, and a cause that affects millions of Americans. If you are able to and interested you can donate to NAMI dot org (I didn't know if I'd get flagged for handling an actual URL) and if we all chipped in a couple of dollars (perhaps sacrificing that one PSL you crave before it even reaches midway through October) the lives of so many people would be impacted so greatly. Thank you.
What would happen if free will was an illusion ? In such a case, what could be the upside of believing, at an individual scale, that we are indeed free ? Despite all the evidence of determinism’s considerable influence upon us ? Start to ponder about it and you will realize that, if you think with the same brain with which you think, then ANY bias affecting your reasoning on yourself will provoke the failure of said reasoning - since the medium through which you think is affected by the very same bias you are trying to identify. In other words, in a positive sense, it is impossible to think about oneself properly, just as a division by zero is meaningless : you can only be tending toward it, but never totally reach it. Unless you are ‘’perfect’’ - meaning aware of every single thing about you and why you become who you are, in this case -, you can’t be fully un-biased. As an ab absurdo thought experiment, let’s imagine someone who has a perfectly unbiased view of themselves, and who would be able to retrace and understand the cause of each event leading to their current existence, and to who they are at this moment. What would actually happen if this person tried to think about why they are themselves ? Well, not only would they retrace a causal chain of events growing bigger and bigger by the second ; but ultimately, and whatever the complexity of the taken path might be, their introspection would only lead to a simple choice : ‘’what would I want to be, since I am really free to choose ?’’ And that’s where lies the hard limit of thought : a person capable of such a deep level of introspection would also be able to know the cause of their own choices. In that scenario, would it be their choice, or their acceptance of any given determinism ? Then the quest of becoming someone you choose to become would loop on itself indefinitely, since any attempt at ending it can only result in its failure. Nonetheless, there is another path : refusing to choose. Refusing any determinism. … Which, sadly, means remaining trapped into your own introspection. Just as a Larsen of pure thought, the perfect consciousness of the very process with which thinking is being formed will eventually paralyze the mind. So, if this whole ‘’perfectly unbiased and reasoning human’’ story isn’t achievable, then maybe it is to protect our minds from such a fate ; much like the safety fuses for electronical devices, our incapacity of staring at ourselves without any bias could be a defense mecanism from the mind... against itself.
This video has been viewed thousands of times by, presumably, hundreds if not thousands of people in different situations. Statistically, he had to be right about someone. 😝
Judge - "What evidence do you offer to support this plea of insanity?" Me - "Well for one I done hire Kyle to represent me" Judge - "Insanity plea accepted."
Skeletor7599 I’m wondering if DJ has destroyed his collabablility with that “Game Theory stole my video” fiasco a while back. Because I’ve seen several great opportunities for people to collaborate that have been missed.
Actually, I picked a State. The State I am in in the US. I picked a State thoughtlessly because I have lived in many cities in my state that are too close to tell exactly where the lines are.
@@zerocalvin I hate when that happens. Have a stream of thoughts. You know I should right that done so I don't forget. Grab paper and pen. Now what was I thinking about "I don't Know" *shrug*
@@ZyphisV so he's taking out his competitors, interesting Also does 'super villain lawyer' imply he's a lawyer for super villains or that he's a super villain who is also a lawyer
"If consciousness is an illusion, who is it that is being fooled?" -Someone on the feedback column of the New Scientist magazine, sometime around 1999, when the editorial staff seemed to be obsessed with this particular issue that usually leads nowhere :)
A couple issues with this: A. The argument in this video is that free will is an illusion, not consciousness. There's a pretty big difference there. B. This type of conversation doesn't lead to "nowhere." This can literally change your entire outlook on...well, everything. I know for me, personally, I am now a bigger advocate for more compassionate treatment for prisoners, and more aware of environmental factors involved in any crime or morally abhorrent behavior. This changes the kind of juror I would be, political policies I advocate for, etc. That's some pretty major shit that you're chalking up to nothing.
@@bobthabuilda1525 I don't really care about compassionate treatments. Maybe minor crimes? But criminals who had committed atrocities deserves no compassion. I think best thing is do the same thing to them that they have done to their victims. I think that's justice.
Goes hand in hand with science of any kind. Science is humbling in design and still open to creativity and imagination. The more we learn, the more we also learn that there is much more to learn. The goalposts keep moving and nothing is ever set in stone, as it should be. Besides, our species constantly needs a warm slice of humble pie. Constantly.
"Think of a city" Me: Lancaster. "Why that city?" Me: Because I live in Lancaster. "Why not Dublin?" Me: Because I live in Lancaster. "Why not Cairo?' Me: Because I live in Lancaster.
"Think of a city" Me: Chicago. "Why that city?" Me: Because I live in Chicago. "Why not Dublin?" Me: Because I live in Chicago. "Why not Cairo?' Me: Because I live in Chicago.
I had a similar reasoning. "Think of a city" Baltimore "Why that city?" It's a close city to where I live "Why not Dublin?" I'm nowhere near Dublin and I am a born American why would I randomly choose Dublin? "Why not Cairo?" Same deal my science dude, cept this time it's cuss I'm not from Missouri or Egypt.
I know this video is old, but remember when Kyle said "the universe has no obligation" to get you laid" in response of the argument of your significant other being predetermined? Wouldn't having no free will validate the claim that your significant other IS predetermined since you have no choice and 'this is how things would've turned out anyways'? Checkmate Kyle. Love the show.
Nobody: USA: "And I'm proud to be an American Where at least I know I'm free And I won't forget the men who died Who gave that right to me" *F-16's flying in the background while a giant bald eagle carrying an american flag appears*
Look, if you don't have free will, there's nothing you can do about it. So why worry about it? You feel like you have free will, and the world works as if you have free will, so just live life as if you have free will.
The Joker has had professional help getting into Arkham. Also he often breaks free or is let loose before the trial. Harley is a great example of how his persona influences others
I just want to say thank you. My brother is currently in jail right now, and has been in and out of the system for a while. My entire family has struggled with mental illness our entire lives. And I deeply appreciate you guys helping people to put themselves in the shoes of those in such a terrible situation with no reasonable way out.
There's a gooooooood bit of neuroscience. But yea it starts with philosophy and that's also where the fatal bullet is delivered. Since Libertarian Free Will is logically impossible (as in, the rules of logic).
He became a scumbag, all those titans in him are really breaking and remodeling his psyche, maybe it's the first king's persona that took over his body
Iskandar Ben Mustapha if I remember right. That is basically why everyone was still on the island. Anyone who takes that titan ends up following the same plan whether they want to or not.
"Think of a city" Me: Cairo, Egypt. "Why that city?" Me: Because I was just reading a thing about it. "Why not Dublin?" Me: Because Cairo was more immediately on my mind. "Why not Cairo?' Me: ...
Woah angry little man! Of course he was pulling a city at random. But with all the cities in the world, he just happened to name the one I thought of. You have trouble standing straight lately or something?
You’re all weird, Joel didn’t miss the point, Jared didn’t seem angry, just wrong, and Joel didn’t go on a tangent, they just explained themselves, which wasn’t very superior of them, perfectly normal when being told they’d missed a point they probably hadn’t, and even if they were being superior, it wasn’t likely like related.
Also I can very clearly remember points in my childhood where I was aware that I had a decision that I needed to make that would affect my development as a personality and a person in the future. And many times even given all the previous information about my life it seems to me my choices in these situations were not predictable. Is free will totally dead when we are able to contradict and act against our snap reactions, or when our snap reaction is uncertainty forcing us to make a conscious decision?
That was actually proven false in the same comic it was mentioned it with Gordon. After every evil thing Joker did to him, he was still a good man. It doesn't take one bad day to drive a man insane. It takes a lack of will to just give up. I've had plenty of bad days, each a chance for me to just lose my mind, but I didn't. I'm I jaded, cynical, self loathing? Yes. But I was never driven mad. I never gave up. Close friends of mine never gave up. To turn to evil, or "insanity" as the joker likes to call it, shows he wasn't strong enough to keep going. "We both stared into the adyss. But when it looked back at you, you blinked." That's a much more fitting quote.
I was originally going to make some joke about how "I'm schizoaffective and have fore-brain damage, so when I close my eyes nothing defined pops into my head it's just a bunch of static and the voices of a busy cafe from behind a brick wall" but this video actually went over some things I'd like to talk about a little - no real science (or delusional cross-pollination of science fact and fiction, which I know can happen sometimes when I get excited); in this comment, just a bit about what it's like to be one of the real people who suffer from heavy mental illness. The first thing (you might've noticed already from the first paragraph) is I'm actually completely aware that I can be delusional and even what those delusions are; to explain how I need an example so I'll use the one that's the easiest to put into words, the inability to truly believe that fantasy style Magic is impossible regardless of how versed I am in physics or other physical sciences, to the point it causes anxiety over the lingering paranoia that other people may have the ability to give themselves some form of mindsight, or do other things I know are impossible that might compromise my privacy or safety on a fundamental level. like I mentioned before it can even get in the way of my ability to separate science, science fiction, and straight up fantasy at a base level, causing the real information and the "Hyperjargon" (all the random strings of words and concepts that get thrown together in entertainment media with either no regard for real life, or that are made to specifically fly in the face of reality) to be inseparably mixed together in my memory. I can get around it well as long as I have access to well sourced and trusted research materials (I have gotten treatment and a little training to cope), but that does mean I can't trust ANY of the information in my own head - I even have to mark and schedule when I've eaten sometimes because I can, occasionally, formulate fake memories of eating that can make me go days without food sometimes. You might notice that, after going over the info for this, fixing a delusion seams impossible- and it is. it never goes away, you just find ways to correct your thoughts after they make mistakes. The other big one I want to talk about is choice hyper awareness. because of my fore-brain damage, I lost the ability to have "reflexive desires" (I probably worded that incorrectly, but I'm doing my best) - I can't want something unless I actively debate myself on whether or not I want it. That's not to say "I have more free will!" because it only works that way for desires, not for things like panic responses, fears, aggression, or depressive triggers - but it's more to say that when you lose the ability to have the innate responses of the self, trying to choose instead becomes daunting. It often ends up spiraling to the point that, for a lot of people with this issue, it becomes easier to accept that you just don't want anything - which often shows as Asocial behavior and the inability to understand others, or completely withdrawing. I'm gonna end it here because it feels like I might be starting to rant and generalize, but I still want to say Thanks Kyle, it helps me feel a little more like a person to know that it's not just people who are sick or broken that don't make the choice too be who they are, or the things they want - we just concentrate on it more often than others 'u'
fascinating reading. Ive struggled with mental health issues my self and I can very much relate to the concept of false memories you mention. I can recommend learning meditation techniques - what kyle is here is the very basic stuff. look up the Buddhist and Hindu techniques - they have the best knowledge of it.
@@bigolbearthejammydodger6527 I do use meditation and mindful thinking techniques, and they can be incredibly helpful! Admittedly It's not as useful once even minor hallucinations get involved (there's a lot more to it than just sensory information, there is a mental and thought process shift that comes along with it), but that's why I find it better to have a wide foundation of coping mechanisms, strategies, and plans with friends and/or family about what to do when things get bad or go wrong! Professional help is always best though, and I'm lucky to live somewhere that, even though I don't have the money for a permanent psychologist, I have been able to vist hospital and emergency psyc services for free often enough to get the help I need - just today I got some big steps for that done 'u' Still though, thank you! I alway appreciate advice ^u^
"When did you choose to be you?" I choose my current persona about 6 years ago. Dealing with live becomes easier when wearing a mask suited to your environment.
AJ Agler one can always lay down new lines of programming to their personality. Removing old ones is dodgy at best and usually impossible but you can write a work around to avoid old circuits. But they will always be there ready to spring into action, one a smoker always a smoker for instance. So your base program is just what you started with but you get to build the rest from there, only there are no resets are the delete key is broken so it always works out to be an organic mess that often does not know what the heck is different parts are even doing but somehow still works.
choice is not mearly thought but action... i chose to click this video, and i chose to write this comment and its contents, of course i did not choose my emotinal state or my views on sentiance however i do chose to follow reason action and consiquence, i dont belive in freewill for humans, just partial freewill, we can ditermine our selves within a limited range, but that does not make that range meaningless as for bears and sharks, they simply are what we are, a combination of their instincts and enviroments mixed with their own sentiance... all to much leaser degress then humans but still the principales which guide a bear are aplicable to humans, did you chose to get angry, no, but did you chose how far to let that anger control you?... well more so then a bear certainly... as for range of thought and degree of control over it, its impossible for limited human minds to have unlimited control over them selves that would imply an imateral are etherial extention of the brain... perhaps a soul... unlikely. we are maliable and versital but only so much the term freewill should be changed to a more realistic spectrum on which we may rank very highly but anything less bound by instinct and enviroment and more intelegant then us, would have greator, but still not complete freewill. Even a strong A.I. covering multipale planets would still have limits to its control over its enviroment, it's self and the depths of its intelegence.
try taking the masks off for a little while some time... you may be suprised to see what comes out of your mouth when your head is allowed to run wild without conciance, care, reason, or worry... its not friendly but it is you unfiltured and unrestrained, the closest we as limited humans will ever get to true freewill... and youll only see the chance online free from the opinnions of the friends and family that bind you to humanity... well the social aspect of humanity at least... theres a great rush to be had in cutting loss and unleashing your every thought and impolse without any filter... though to be fair youll not make friends like that so keep that to the places you dont care about... C : its what i do. and im still alive for some reason.
Kyle you bring up gut reaction type thinking. The "now pick a color" or "think of a person" by definition that is a reaction. Just like when a pencil is rolling off the edge of the table you see out the corner of your eye and your body reacts faster than you can actually think "i need to stop that before it falls" many people get surprised in that moment because they feel that whole "wow my body did that on it's own" feeling. We as humans can always improve. And if we think about it we can choose things regularly. We may not know exactly why we choose that exact thing but we do have the choice. If someone walking down the street cut a random large chunk of your hair, you have your initial reaction that you trained and can work on improving throughout your life. You know your strengths and weaknesses and can choose to work on them. Then as you collect yourself you can choose how to take it and how far, when you drop it when do you go to your stylist to retake control, whether or not you choose to post it on social media. Yes there are things in your past that influence it but just as the past influences your current self, your current decisions, goals and tasks forms your future oppurtunities. It isn't safe to promote a "well I didn't have a choice" philosophy. It is much better to promote a "you can always become better and the time to choose to is now" philosophy. I wish you would have brought up how mentalist, advertisers and salesmen all use these reactionary thoughts to their advantage. Maybe then people will be more likely to try to pause themselves and give themselves the choice before going along with another's whim...
Even the choice to try and react differently in the future to sometning isn't really a choice. Given who you were at that point, and whatever happened to instigate that decision it was always the only thing you could do. A different scenario might have caused a different reaction, a different person might have reacted differently but that didn't happen. The best description I was given is you don't choose, you excerise judgment. Some things are reactive, but if faced with a decision and time to think it's your knowledge, values, experience and beliefs that drive the descion combined with whatever the situation is (as you understand it). Since those things are what they are at that point there isn't an actual choice, your mind may go through a process of weighing things up but it can only come to one conclusion. It's a bit of a scary idea but if you really think about it the alternative would be some random factor. It wouldn't actually give you choice or free will, just sometimes you would choose things for no reason. I don't see that as better.
@@hariodinio where did the good stats go? I have a 12 dex, 10 wis, my cha can be anywhere between 3 and 18 depending on the day (i know it weird), and my constitution is a solid 13
"Would you punish a shark? Would you punish a bear?" Yes. Some animals that prove to be extraordinarily violent and a threat to their environment often get hunted or put down.
"Could you ever have chosen otherwise?" So, philosophers who study this sort of question understand that the word 'could' here is what we call a modal operator: it conveys some idea about what is possible or necessary. To actually analyze a modal operator, we need to know its domain, because there are different sorts of possibility and necessity. For instance, something may be *logically* possible but not *physically* possible. (Example: there is no logical contradiction in something being Water but not H2O. However, it may be a physical or metaphysical impossibility given the fact that in the actual world, water is H20. This is a classic way to make this distinction, as names may exist as terms in a logical statement, but the relationship between those names may require further knowledge of the actual composition of the world.) So to answer, "Could you ever have chosen otherwise?" we need to know the domain of the modal operator: what sort of possibility are we talking about? Kyle seems to rely on something like physical or maybe some more nuanced sort of possibility like biological or biochemical possibility here. (Yes, the domains can get that specific) Something like, "Given your brain chemistry and the state you were in, could you have chosen differently?" And, short of a belief in something magical like a causally efficacious immaterial soul or contracausal free will, the answer is pretty clearly "No." But it's worth noting that this is a different sort of possibility than is typically used in legal or moral reasoning. There, the standard is something more like logical possibility or possibly even a sui generis legal possibility. (Note: not an attorney, do not take this as legal advice) A person *can* be let off the hook for a crime if it was "impossible" for them to not commit it, or if the consequences for not committing it were bad enough (which is defined more technically but varies from place to place) but this isn't a sort of physical possibility. The physical question can be reframed as, "Given the physical state of the world, could another event have taken place?" Quantum probability aside (as it does not often factor significantly into macro-scale interactions like criminal acts) this isn't the question that is asked in a legal evaluation. Rather, the possibility question here is better reframed as something like, "Could a reasonable person have acted differently in the same scenario?" So it is not a matter so much of physical states as some standard of reasonableness. For instance: say some criminal super-genius, we'll call him Evil Kyle for the sake of simplicity, threatens to kill your family if you don't steal $1 million from your local bank for him. If you commit the crime, you might still be let off the hook when it goes to trial: no one expects you to let your family be murdered and if a reasonable person in your circumstance would have done the same, you may be let go. (Although Evil Kyle would still be liable for your crime in this scenario) If, however, you shot and killed someone in committing the crime you might *still* be legally liable for the shooting as Evil Kyle did not coerce you to violence, only to robbery. So it seems like Kyle is asking the wrong question, because he is using the wrong modality to answer it. At least from the perspective of the law and legal scholars.
I'm not convinced that quantum effects don't regularly affect decision making. A quantum interaction might be the difference between a neuron firing or not which could be the tipping point between choosing one course of action over another. This would be an interesting thing to test using neural networks. That being said it's irrelevant to the topic of free will, a choice being determined by a dice throw is no freer than one which is pre-determined. When it comes to morality I agree we should be looking at it from a different framework than the determinism debate though, there clearly are qualitative differences between us and most animals or modern computers, traits which allow us to be moral agents capable of putting ourselves in the shoes of others, consider consequences, learn from experiences etc and since "free will" is so often linked to questions of morality it makes sense to use these factors in the definition IMO.
Sui generis: Law - when a special and unique interpretation of a case or authority is necessary Intellectual property rights, where there is no defining characteristic Philosophy - to indicate an idea, an entity, or a reality that cannot be reduced to a lower concept or included in a higher concept
The M'Naghten rule isn't about whether it was physical or free will or mental illness but rather the ability to recognize what one was doing or the morality/wrongfullness of the act. Thus a person who in the "throes of a psychotic breakdown" murders someone is unable to have "insight" into their actions. i.e. That a stabbing could harm someone or that it is wrong to stab. It doesn't matter if they could have made a different choice. In arguing insanity you must say that you committed the act and could not have acted in a reasonable manner. Being coerced, or rather, duress, isn't really analogous. As it seeks to prove that the "reasonable person in the defendant’s position also would have committed the crime." Think more along the lines of self defense. One is more based on the reasonable actions one could have taken (ie called the cops while driving to bank) versus what other reasonable people would have done. The other acquits the person of the act because they were unable to _behave and/or think_ reasonably, regardless if it was physical or psychological (such as a temporary rage before you regained your mental balance). The gay panic or the trans defense are examples where sane people with no mental health issues, other than bigotry, use temporary insanity. Oh and being excused and acquitted means freedom vs potentially being locked up until you die. Fun fact 30 Minutes or Less is based on a 'true' story of someone being forced to commit a robbery. Except in reality he was a part of it. globalnews.ca/news/5067861/rohinie-bisesar-path-stabbing-review/ www.justia.com/criminal/defenses/duress/
There is a single catch: when the Joker's personality is suppressed in the comics, in main line continuity, it is shown that he is remorseful for the actions that he has committed while being the Joker. HOWEVER, the current definitions do not allow for Joker to be criminally insane. If a form of multiple personality disorder can be considered as part of the case for criminal insanity, then yes.
“When did you choose to be you” also brings up the question of who is the “you” choosing who “you” should be. There has to be a “you” to make the decision for the concept of decision to exist, but how can there be a “you” to make the decision if there must first be a “you” to make the decision but that “you” can’t exist before the decision is made.
I kinda feel like this might give a lot of people existential crisis. I got the remedy for that. If there's nothing you can do about free will, hey, you still feel like you are you, and you still feel like you have free will. And the world we live in works as if you are you and as if you have free will. So live life as if you have free will.
"would you punish a shark, would you punish a bear" "for some feeling of revenge or malice", Kyle your bordering on psychology and the presence of conscious thought
Hi Kyle, love the show! Especially happy to see philosophy getting some love from the science folks (I'm a philosophy PhD student myself, working on the ethics of punishment). A thought on your great discussion of moral responsibility: In the philosophical debate, it's not obvious that the principle of alternate possibilities (PAP) holds. Meaning: Even if you couldn't have acted otherwise (or thought otherwise), you might still be morally responsible for your actions. The philosopher Harry Frankfurt famously tried to refuse the PAP will the help of thought experiments that were supposed to be counter examples to it. But even recent empirical research points in that direction: laypeople seem to still ascribe moral responsibility even in cases where all the actions could have been predicted by a super computer. But people are less confident in ascribing responsibility in cases of manipulation. Imaging that an evil scientist (let's call him Kyle) programmed someone in such a way that this person would murder someone at a certain date - in this case, responsibility tends to not be ascribed. Thus, laypeople appear to be intuitive compatibilists, meaning that they take determinism and free will to be compatible. This doesn't show that free will actually exists, but it might change the perspective on the debate concerning moral responsibility. Keep up the great work!
@@timn.5036 Sure! The empirical research is by Eddy Nahmias and colleagues: "It's OK if 'my brain made me do it'" published 2014 in Cognition. You can find the relevant work of Harry Frankfurt in his book 'The Importance of What we Care About'
"A simple super villain lawyer" so do you mean a Super Villain that is also a lawyer? Or a lawyer for Super Villains? Cause...it could go either way with you.
About an hour ago, I was listening to my Spotify playlist & a song called "just an illusion" by imagination came on. My playlist is on random. Then I start watching TH-cam videos, at random, & now I'm here & he just asked, "is this just an illusion?" Is any of this actually random or is it by design? I did not expect any of this when I clicked the video.
Jesus Kyle, you went so philosophical, I haven't thought about my self like this in so long... Even though it's probably how I think all the time without realizing it.. Kyle why... Why did you do this?
when they say "super sanity" I've always seen it as he's so intelligent that he realizes the absurdity of modern society and he's trying to show everyone how fickle and fragile it is
I'm pretty sure it's something like this. As though it is some type of higher social awareness the same way our social systems are above that of animals/prehistoric man. But even if that's the case, it opens the door for the discussion that things are only normal, right and wrong due to what's considered that by today's standards and that those standards/ways of thinking are fluid just as they have been throughout history. What we consider morally and ethically right/wrong is not what was seen that way and not what will be seen that way in the future which might beg the question of if the morality of today can be used to judge someone who is "above" it like the Joker.
My first thought was that Super Sanity in the Joker's case was that he knows or at least has some idea that he's just a comic book character, so he's not actually in control of his actions or he's just playing his part in the "story."
Pretty sure, (and of course I might be wrong) but the concept of super-sanity in comic books implies that they are so sane/insane that they KNOW they are in a comic and knows that their actions mean nothing since they and the other "main characters" are protected by "plot armor" so no matter what they do they will be "fine" in the end. Deadpool is the Marvel example of this.
@@morlath4767 l would say that's true in part that it extends to us creating an artificial construct that we has more truth to it than it really does. We have gone from knowing and judging right and wrong to simply accepting what we are told is the right or wrong thing. It's the acceptance of these ideas even though many of us disagree with them or the people that made those decisions that is the fake reality. Things like courts releasing people that are clearly guilty because if a legal loophole or technicality, people going to work each day just to pay bills that will never end or accepting the decisions of clearly corrupt governments or officials. There are many things in the current world we accept or take for granted that we wouldn't if we were made to seriously stop and think about them.
"When was the last time you chose to be you?" About 6 months ago, actually. I just floated along through life, doing whatever I happened to come across. I decided to take the reigns in my life. But regardless, the point of the prison system is not to settle questions of free will - it's to try and prevent crimes by fulfilling 4 methods. 1. Deterrence: "Oh, prison isn't fun, maybe robbing the bank isn't a good idea." 2. Separation: A criminal can't hurt people that they can't reach. 3. Retribution: This actually protects the criminal by making sure that the wronged parties feel that justice had been served, and so there won't be a lynching going on. 4. Rehabilitation: To reshape and reform the criminal in to a functioning member of society. Which is why simply having a mental disease is not enough to make you legally insane. However, if you can't tell right from wrong - if you can't tell that what you were doing was not acceptable, then the prison isn't helping. It's not deterrence, and it won't rehabilitate someone who is so drastically out of the mold. And thus why they need specialized help in an attempt at rehabilitation (which, while perhaps vein, has a better chance than a generalized prison) , while still separating this dangerous person from society. And then there are victim-less crimes like drug use... Sigh. At absolute worst, it should be punished by detention in a specialized facility meant to help the users get clean, just like the criminally insane. But those "crimes" frustrate me. Even more so that they are sent to prison, which doesn't help! (At least by the general model. Some prisons actually have wards dedicated to helping prisoners get clean, but then are still sometimes serving multiple years in prison, which is probably longer than needed to overcome an addiction.)
As for the brain tumor thing, it's simple: The problem was solved by surgery, and probably wasn't solvable by the prison system. Viola, he's a productive member of society again, problem solved. That does have more disturbing implications, such as when we are partially/completely cybernetic, and our memories (which lead to our action) themselves can be surgically removed with just a surge of electricity. But let's leave that for when the time comes.
SangoProductions213 sometimes, prisons fail to rehabilitate (for society) the people who are leaving them, and these people who have essentially lost years from their lives and haven’t accumulated knowledge and experiences from those years can’t get a job that will support them. Sometimes the past prisoner will commit a crime to go back to a place where they are fed, the same prison that didn’t help them in the first place.
@@lucankeyser2111 I'm talking about the principle about why prisons are used, not about their specific implementations in any given place. That said, prison laborers have a significantly lower recidivism rate than those who don't work and earn skills...despite Democrat claims that it's exploitation or whatever. If that were true, you'd expect to see great recidivism rates in the hardest workers so that they can be put back to work.
Studies have shown our brains retroactively write in memories of our choosing a course of action after we unconsciously performed them, for example it's been shown it's not possible to consciously choose to hit a fastball in baseball, our reaction times aren't fast enough, but batters will invent the memory of their choosing to swing and insert that memory before the memory of swinging the bat. It is theorized we do this to preserve our egos, as the knowledge that we aren't actually in control of our actions would be debilitating.
Even actions that don't require fast reflexes happen before we decide. There have been studies using EKG and a button pressing exercise that shows our brain "decides" what button we're going to push before we consciously pick one. I would argue that this has nothing to do with ego, and is just a blind rationalization for lack of any conscious evidence to the contrary. Literally, we don't know we don't know.
Cop: Sir, are you being insane without a license?
Joker: *Begins to sweat*
A RandomPerson, more like *starts to laugh*
Here I have a card 🃏 hahahahaha
Begins to sweat and then pulls an identification sized card from somewhere and hands it over. The non-glove wearing hand of the recipient of the card heats it to the point where Joker's special mix of chemical causes the card to explode with copious amounts of smoke. The Joker knows how long to wait for the card to blow up and uses the distraction to escape.
I didn't know he visited Britain.
@@katyushamarikov8819 you got a license for that comment?
I was not expecting a "Because Philosophy" episode.
Science is applied philosophy... PHILO 101
Because Law
What would happen if free will was an illusion ?
In such a case, what could be the upside of believing, at an individual scale, that we are indeed free ? Despite all the evidence of determinism’s considerable influence upon us ?
Start to ponder about it and you will realize that, if you think with the same brain with which you think, then ANY bias affecting your reasoning on yourself will provoke the failure of said reasoning - since the medium through which you think is affected by the very same bias you are trying to identify.
In other words, in a positive sense, it is impossible to think about oneself properly, just as a division by zero is meaningless : you can only be tending toward it, but never totally reach it. Unless you are ‘’perfect’’ - meaning, here, fully aware of everything about yourself, from the events that lead to your existence to the causes of who you became -, you can’t be fully un-biased.
As an ad absurdo thought experiment, let’s imagine someone who has a perfectly unbiased view of themselves, and who would be able to retrace and understand the cause of each event leading to their current existence, and to who they are at this moment. What would actually happen if this person tried to think about why they are themselves ?
Well, not only would they retrace a causal chain of events growing bigger and bigger by the second ; but ultimately, and whatever the complexity of the taken path might be, their introspection would only lead to a simple choice : ‘’what would I want to be, since I am really free to choose ?’’
And that’s where lies the hard limit of thought : a person capable of such a deep level of introspection would also be able to know the cause of their own choices. In that scenario, would it be their choice, or their acceptance of any given determinism ? Then the quest of becoming someone you choose to become would loop on itself indefinitely, since any attempt at ending it can only result in its failure.
Nonetheless, there is another path : refusing to choose. Refusing any determinism. … Which means remaining trapped into your own introspection. Just as a Larsen of pure thought, the perfect consciousness of the very process with which thinking is being formed will eventually paralyze the mind.
So, if this whole ‘’perfectly unbiased and reasoning human’’ story isn’t achievable, then maybe it is to protect our minds from such a fate ; much like the safety fuses for electronical devices, our incapacity of staring at ourselves without any bias could be a defense mecanism from the mind… against itself.
@@c-hd.8644
Free will is real. The only problem is that happens when a person can't act on them or won't remember doing it.
A newborn has no bias of self
A drunk man has no filter to say no intentional or NOT. Meaning his bias doesn't matter
@@Johncornwell103 I think we do not speak of the same thing : bias are no social restraints, but limitations to what we are able to think to. I agree, newborns have no prenotions of their own (though they will gain some very early), and drunk people lack those restraints ... Like dement old people, some kind of autists and so on. Doesn't mean they does not lack at least some of the nearly infinite abilities to look at their reality : a baby won't know that he/she is something apart of Mom for some time, a drunk person won't stop to be racist, blind or even born in some country, therefore not anywhere else. Not to mention raised by other people, and so on.
What I call a bias isn't a filter but a horizon, a limit to what you can see ... And I don't think anyone could ever tell he/she knows everything. So, his/her free will won't be anything but the perception of being able to choose among its determinisms, lacking any other options avalaible he/she can't be aware of, due to his/her previous experiences.
Not to mention that even if he/she was, as I said, ultimately a infinite choice of determinisms is nothing but the negation of free will too, because of the causality that lead to the choice.
Oh great, now he's making a defense for himself in case he gets caught.
upvote this so he can see it!!! XD
Joker defended himself in the white knight storyline
@THE VOID fuck you
Kyle: "Now become aware of your thoughts"
Me: *Has no thoughts for the first time in 15 years*
That's some decent mindful meditationing my dood.
Same!!!
That's actually the first thing they teach when learning mindfulness.
I actually had to make myself think about a cheeseburger at that part
When your told to think, you can't think.
"close your eyes and become aware of the thoughts your thinking"
Me: *Does so*
My mind: *Screams in a chorus of voices*
Me: "Well that's not a good sign"
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHH!!!
That's abnormal? I always have about a dozen different things running through my head, usually one of them is a music track. Stopping thinking and clearing my mind takes active effort. It's not different "voices" per se, but more many of the various problems I have, most of which I'm paid to solve, being a computer support tech. My mind is much like my desk, cluttered and always changing.
@@dangingerich2559 Same
But in this instance, its the screaming the bothers me
*Close eyes thinks of Waifu* Thinks of City, Chooses between Utah, Nevada, Washington and Ohio cities, was about to consider California ones when he said to focus on one. Chooses one. Says I don't have free will, my mind: Bullsh!+.
@@mixartjohnson8968 Indeed
“When did you choose to be you”
In the character creation menu of course
i just got given a choice of three premade characters
I pressed random
@@hoodedgenius3249 you missed the customize button. It's small
I am actually multiple characters ;)
@@fatemehsoniaimantalab6608 #schizophrenia
“Super sane” means he knows he’s a comic book character. And that’s the joke
*Joker is Super Sane*
Me: DEADPOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL! WE NEED TO GET JOKER!
@OriginalTharios and thats the joke
@@nyankers The joke is more along the lines of him knowing his victims are just strokes of ink on paper, so when this serious brooding man in a bat costume just tries to bring him to justice, you can see how comical it is.
So.... Deadpool.
@@monroerobbins7551 Sort of but in a much more dark and serious manner. Deadpool uses it to poke fun and be cooky, joker sees it as a reason to kill and maim and laugh about it.
He’s trying to make us all more forgiving of him when he finally implements his super villain plan
Hehe not really but but this type of tactic is so often used in TH-cam comments. People who will defend or make excuses or arguments for or against the rest who logically decided it's good or bad for the right reasons, and then comes along some TH-camr saying the opposite. Probably because unconsciously they know they're the type who would do something the rest would disagree with, and thus be against him, so sneaky you tubers try to defend their actions in the comments before they even make them
"Close your eyes for a moment. Are they closed? Take deep breaths..."
Me, listening to this while driving:
but did you close them?
Well clearly, since there's no reply
@@davidninan88 /sigh
*and this has been a PSA about texting/ commenting / following directions at the wrong time while driving.
Remember kids, don't do it. if its important find a safe designated parking place to pull over.
Otherwise, replying to messages can wait.*
I said the same thing lol
This reply section is lit AF
"When did you, decide to be you?"
*Vsauce? Is that you?*
"Hey Because Science, Kyle here."
He is Michael, disguised in hair.
@@myMotoring Indeed. I love Vsauce, but he releases videos only on blue moon days.... In the meantime, this is a nice fix to get me by!
Relevant xkcd
xkcd.com/220/
@@TwiStedTentom hes done a shit ton of videos on ding
"When did you decide to be you?"
What do you mean, I spent forever at the character creation menu only to end up with this spectacular mess.
Nine months down the drain.
And now I’m a stealth archer.
Yeah, I figured I'd skip out on the mathematics skill tree and divert those points to physical strength. It has not gone well...
Me: "And done"
Game: "you have not assigned all of your skill points, by continuing you forfeit all left over skill points thus making the game harder."
Me: "eh screw it what could go wrong."
Me (later): "oh that's what could go wrong."
In hindsight, dumping everything into INT and using STR, DEX, and CHA as dump stats may have been a mistake. Also, picking Chaotic Good as an alignment didn't go as well. At least I wasn't stupid enough to go for the LG Paladin combo. Sadly, picking NPC as my class wasn't a good idea, either.
You and LegalEagle should've teamed up on this.
Yeeees. I just thought the same, it would be great :D
I thought about that too, then the free will stuff started coming up lol
CrimsonRush117 yes
Was about to comment the same.
Lol
He just admitted it! “I’m just a super villain, lawyer..”
Case closed.
Without the comma it's redundant.
Everette Bradfute 😂😂😂
The quote is, "Now I may be just a super villain, lawyer." The "may" in that sentence creates ambiguity. It implies that he may not be a super villain.
"I'm Just a ..... Lawyer" the claim is that he is a lawyer, the qualifier is meaningless to the overall claim. (trained contract reviewer here)
The Werefrog as any super villain would, of course.
Question: just me or did it seem Kyle is setting up his defense for when his supervilliany catches up to him??
I was thinking the same thing! "Don't blame the super villain! It's just who we I mean THEY.... are."
I just made the 666th like. Let that sink in.
@@qinjikofoxx5580 I'm not liking exactly for that reason
He does say in his nuclear power video that the department of energy removed his supervillain record for making the video
"Now, I might just be a simple super villain lawyer..."
Soo..... is that a lawyer _for_ super villains or a lawyer that _is_ a super villain?
Kyle : Yes
Why not both ?
Ask She-Hulk. She was once a lawyer for supervillains
Yes
2 Face, She Hulk, Daredevil.
It depends on the version of the Joker really, there are some versions of Joker who genuinely cannot help themselves (i swear i remember there's apparently a scene where Batman asks Joker to stop but Joker says "I can't I can't I can't!") and some versions who are in complete control of everything and yet decide to do the bad thing anyways (Injustice Joker)
"is free will just an illusion?"
Oh great, Kyle is in the matrix.
@Agent J Bro, there are many situations where people got no control over what is happening in their lives. You could be educated and prepared and still not get that "dream job" or whatever position you were studying for. There are many problems in society, economy, politics, infrastructure and Laws/governance that could stand in the way of how successful an individual could be.
You didn't/can't choose your reality, you make the best with what you got... And what's wrong with hopes and prayers?
@Agent J I don't know where you stand buddy but you need to come back to reality. You can be "Paralyzed by fear" or "believe bullshit" all you want, but if the economy of your country is bad, no amount of "choosing your reality" will help that or any other global issue. YOU can't "choose" to change problems in the world, especially when they affect your success... yes, YOUR SUCCESS.
@Agent J I don't know who you are, but even you have things that made you successful. You chose a lot, but not every thing that brought you to where you are today. Good People, educational degrees, political Influences, good healthcare, who knows but all these and many more contributed to your success.
Say your country didn't provide enough of these things or not at all, say we take them away from you and have you grow up, what are you in the end of the day... well, a lot less successful than you are now.
You can't choose your reality, but you can choose your path in life.
@Agent J there are many persons with horrible circumstances in their lives. Some of these persons turn out to be truly admirable persons and some become rich and famous through hard work and dedication. They suffered hardships in their lives that are just as hard as another person who does not succeed but they did through their own efforts. 'Identical' twins often have completely different lives. Why is that? Same lives and influences but different results. Your argument is invalid.
Nah, he's not wearing enough leather and latex, nor is he sporting sunglasses.
Kyle: Ladies and Gentlemen. I might just be a simple super villain-
Me: YES!
Kyle: lawyer
Me: :(
My same thought lol
Kyle: and while you're doing that I'm going to take over Gotham.
Me: I KNEW IT THIS WHOLE TIME. GOTCHA
No no no guys, what he meant was he's a Super Villain and he's a Lawyer, Super Villain-Lawyer.
“Is the joker crazy?”
15 minutes later
“Is there even free will?”
Well that escalated quickly
That was at 8:30 or so for anyone who wants to know
Ive pretty much always thought free will is impossible because humans are only capable of acting in response to either physical impulses or interpolated information
Enjoyed the video up until that point
😂 Indeed
Exactly what the joker wants
I’m just here wondering how the joker never got a death sentence
Drained_Entity because he probably has their families at gunpoint at all times.
ImASpookyAndroid Isn’t it weird how the US is the only western country medieval enough to still kill people as punishment? The law is not for personal revenge, it’s supposed to be objective and yet the US as a whole still practises it.
bc the point of a legal system is to reform ppl, not erase them from existence. It's unbelievable to me that some states in the USA still use the death sentence
@Vishya Knewdat actually the death penalty for rape is a horrible idea because it has been proven that when there is a death penalty for rape the rapists are much more likely to kill their victims. That is why it is no longer used in rape cases
It's not legal to execute the insane. And in some places it's illegal all together.
Kyle: Why didn’t you think of Dublin?
Me, who thought of Dublin: That’s where you’re wrong, kiddo.
But did you choose to use that meme, or did the meme choose you?
@@z-beeblebrox A boy dont pick the meme, the meme picks the boy.
I thought of Dublin, because I scrolled down and saw this comment
Kyle: I'm not a supervillain.
Also Kyle: IS the Joker truly guilty of his crimes? 😂
"What's the first thing that pops into your head?"
Brain: Magic the gathering
god dammit
Same, except it was more like, What is different now that they released MTGA officially? the answer: nothing
@@MonkeyJedi99 Exactly! For something to "pop 'into' your head" it must enter.
thoughtseize
"Gee, superhero movies suck"
Dag nammit... I was reading the comments and watching at the same time and now I can think about it bloody magic the gathering
This might be my all time favorite video. It went from the run of the mill Because Science breakdown, to a deep introspective and philosophically-tied series of thought experiments that will affect many people. The music dropping made it so much more powerful, and I love how well you did with treating something seriously.
People who never considered this and grasped the concept (or will later due to their interest in learning more) may now have their outlook on things drastically altered. Whether one has free will is an important part of religious understanding too, depending on one's faith and denomination. I've used this in my arsenal in different ways, and I hope others will make use of it too, or just learn more about it. It's so cool and concerning.
If you liked this one, check out Shoddycast's Rethinking series video on "Does Good Or Bad Karma Exist" 😎😉
@@SalmonColoredSalmon6267 lol wow my memory is so bad that I don’t remember a damn thing about this video and it’s kinda nuts seeing my comment expressing how much I loved it. Might have to rewatch this lol.
Just added your recommendation to my watch list. Thanks!
This episode: "How to discuss Determinism without mentioning It"
IKR!? XD
Legit my first thought
I applaud the effort and the factual basis, however I would like to say that a video such as this has a very superficial take on mental illness as a whole. I would like to say that, but then you brought it back around to displaying the sympathy you have for those who have been wrought by circumstance and turning it towards a mindfulness exercise that explains to the popular people that we are not different than those who we part our ways from (and more than that in a biopsychosocial reference!). There needs to be more of an understanding about these contexts of life, and there needs to be more funding to make it so that we all can feel comfortable in our own skin to evolve, to get better, and to better those around us. And if our compassion met no bounds, perhaps thought experiments such as these have a place in commiting all of those objectives to reality. In sum, I applaud you, and I would ask that you would use this as an opportunity to increase awareness to an organization that advocates for and educates the popular opinion on what mental illness is and how it affects every person in society. NAMI is a perfect example, and deserves to be supported as much as possible. Please share this in your further examination of the comments on your videos, I'm sure it will help the cause that I can see you have a great insight upon, and a cause that affects millions of Americans. If you are able to and interested you can donate to NAMI dot org (I didn't know if I'd get flagged for handling an actual URL) and if we all chipped in a couple of dollars (perhaps sacrificing that one PSL you crave before it even reaches midway through October) the lives of so many people would be impacted so greatly. Thank you.
Super villains such as Kyle don't use such words
What would happen if free will was an illusion ? In such a case, what could be the upside of believing, at an individual scale, that we are indeed free ? Despite all the evidence of determinism’s considerable influence upon us ?
Start to ponder about it and you will realize that, if you think with the same brain with which you think, then ANY bias affecting your reasoning on yourself will provoke the failure of said reasoning - since the medium through which you think is affected by the very same bias you are trying to identify.
In other words, in a positive sense, it is impossible to think about oneself properly, just as a division by zero is meaningless : you can only be tending toward it, but never totally reach it. Unless you are ‘’perfect’’ - meaning aware of every single thing about you and why you become who you are, in this case -, you can’t be fully un-biased.
As an ab absurdo thought experiment, let’s imagine someone who has a perfectly unbiased view of themselves, and who would be able to retrace and understand the cause of each event leading to their current existence, and to who they are at this moment. What would actually happen if this person tried to think about why they are themselves ?
Well, not only would they retrace a causal chain of events growing bigger and bigger by the second ; but ultimately, and whatever the complexity of the taken path might be, their introspection would only lead to a simple choice : ‘’what would I want to be, since I am really free to choose ?’’
And that’s where lies the hard limit of thought : a person capable of such a deep level of introspection would also be able to know the cause of their own choices. In that scenario, would it be their choice, or their acceptance of any given determinism ? Then the quest of becoming someone you choose to become would loop on itself indefinitely, since any attempt at ending it can only result in its failure.
Nonetheless, there is another path : refusing to choose. Refusing any determinism. … Which, sadly, means remaining trapped into your own introspection. Just as a Larsen of pure thought, the perfect consciousness of the very process with which thinking is being formed will eventually paralyze the mind.
So, if this whole ‘’perfectly unbiased and reasoning human’’ story isn’t achievable, then maybe it is to protect our minds from such a fate ; much like the safety fuses for electronical devices, our incapacity of staring at ourselves without any bias could be a defense mecanism from the mind... against itself.
"Hey there, vscauc- Kyle Hill here"
Which is not a bad thing ! Haha (i also had that thought at some points in the video ;) )
Totally my thoughts too.
"...maybe you realize that you are having a feeling of hunger..."
Me: Damn this guy is good
I heard that just as I was finishing my sandwich during lunch
I mean there was a lot of psychological seeding going on in that segment, which was part of the point.
my first thought was simply "cheese"
This video has been viewed thousands of times by, presumably, hundreds if not thousands of people in different situations.
Statistically, he had to be right about someone. 😝
When he gets real, he actually mentions criminals may be criminals due to abuse
Joaquin Phoenix’s Joker was abused as a young lad
Kyle trying to prove him self insane so that he can use term criminally insane if needed
"When did you choose to be you?"
*vsauce music starts playing*
I chuckled at this one!!
@@Xxmr81xX yeah thought of this because I just saw the newest one
@@LordofSyn thanks!
@@thepinebros.1873
You're most welcome and I, too; am glad that VSauce has returned.
...but that's just a theory. A game theory!
Judge - "What evidence do you offer to support this plea of insanity?"
Me - "Well for one I done hire Kyle to represent me"
Judge - "Insanity plea accepted."
Joker ^^ funny www.minds.com/xxxminibierxxx/ supervillian that would be great
@@Jessefancolly climate scam
Ouch, burn!!! 😁 😁 😁
I love the Futurama.
"Is free will a illusion"
Sigma: *heavy beathing*
*Humming intensifies*
Is that a motherfucking Overwatch reference?
69 likes
Hehehe~
Despite God being fake, if he did exist free will is an illusion. Anything the Bible says some people blindly believe it without critical thinking.
Next video: "Is the Cyclops legally blind?"
Lee Gabriel M Banasihan Next video: “Is Superman considered an illegal immigrant?”
When did you, decide to be you?"
RNG mostly taken care of it.
Life hit me with a draw 4 card and I couldn't do anything but respect the play.
@@Nalrus_The_Walrus True that. Hurts but true.
This would have been a golden opportunity to collab with Legal Eagle
I came down to the comments looking for this exact comment.
Skeletor7599 I’m wondering if DJ has destroyed his collabablility with that “Game Theory stole my video” fiasco a while back.
Because I’ve seen several great opportunities for people to collaborate that have been missed.
@@Riggs_The_Roadie me too lol
@@Jessie_Helms game theory gave him a shout out in it
My thoughts
“This video is sponsored by Cw’s Batwoman”
Hahahaha
No.
Thought the same hahahaa
That show sucks, and I have never seen it
@Vishya Knewdat of course he wouldn't stoop so low with that impropriety. He lives in a society
No I like that show I also like most CW shows
Haku infinite I only said that so no one calls me Sexist
Kyle: "Think of a city"
My Brain: "Got it, here is a beach"
Kyle:"When did you choose that city?"
My Brain: "I didn't, I picked a beach."
Good job, brain... lol
Actually, I picked a State. The State I am in in the US. I picked a State thoughtlessly because I have lived in many cities in my state that are too close to tell exactly where the lines are.
well at least your brain give you a reply.. my brain just give silent for the whole experiment...
@@zerocalvin I hate when that happens. Have a stream of thoughts. You know I should right that done so I don't forget. Grab paper and pen. Now what was I thinking about "I don't Know" *shrug*
I got velocity.
"Just a super villain lawyer"
Hmm... so instead of becoming one, you're just helping them.
Sound like something super villain would do.
Except that he didn't help him. He proved that joker is not criminally insane. Instead... It appears he's taken out a rival supervillain...
@@ZyphisV so he's taking out his competitors, interesting
Also does 'super villain lawyer' imply he's a lawyer for super villains or that he's a super villain who is also a lawyer
Yes.
So just a lawyer then?
SwiggitySwooty BOTH!!!!
Kyle: Imma make a existential video.
Children watching his show: Cries in terror.
"If consciousness is an illusion, who is it that is being fooled?" -Someone on the feedback column of the New Scientist magazine, sometime around 1999, when the editorial staff seemed to be obsessed with this particular issue that usually leads nowhere :)
A couple issues with this:
A. The argument in this video is that free will is an illusion, not consciousness. There's a pretty big difference there.
B. This type of conversation doesn't lead to "nowhere." This can literally change your entire outlook on...well, everything. I know for me, personally, I am now a bigger advocate for more compassionate treatment for prisoners, and more aware of environmental factors involved in any crime or morally abhorrent behavior. This changes the kind of juror I would be, political policies I advocate for, etc. That's some pretty major shit that you're chalking up to nothing.
@@bobthabuilda1525 so help people that hurt others but not normal innocent people your pathetic and what's wrong with the world
@@bobthabuilda1525 I don't really care about compassionate treatments. Maybe minor crimes? But criminals who had committed atrocities deserves no compassion. I think best thing is do the same thing to them that they have done to their victims. I think that's justice.
One's own self just to release it from pain of being alone and nothingness
I came here to learn science, ended up having an existential crisis
Goes hand in hand especially with space stuff
Goes hand in hand with science of any kind. Science is humbling in design and still open to creativity and imagination.
The more we learn, the more we also learn that there is much more to learn. The goalposts keep moving and nothing is ever set in stone, as it should be.
Besides, our species constantly needs a warm slice of humble pie. Constantly.
"Think of a city"
Me: Lancaster.
"Why that city?"
Me: Because I live in Lancaster.
"Why not Dublin?"
Me: Because I live in Lancaster.
"Why not Cairo?'
Me: Because I live in Lancaster.
Ohio?
"Think of a city"
Me: Chicago.
"Why that city?"
Me: Because I live in Chicago.
"Why not Dublin?"
Me: Because I live in Chicago.
"Why not Cairo?'
Me: Because I live in Chicago.
@@Johncornwell103 well, I'm not going to say *which* Lancaster, obviously.
Same reasoning (Toronto,)
I had a similar reasoning.
"Think of a city"
Baltimore
"Why that city?"
It's a close city to where I live
"Why not Dublin?"
I'm nowhere near Dublin and I am a born American why would I randomly choose Dublin?
"Why not Cairo?"
Same deal my science dude, cept this time it's cuss I'm not from Missouri or Egypt.
"Supervillain Lawyer": Lawyer who REPRESENTS Supervillains, or a Lawyer who IS a Supervillain...?
Yes.
What lawyer isnt
Good question indeed.
Why not both? He defends cilents in court by day and plots the destruction and/or domination of society by night
Probably both
I know this video is old, but remember when Kyle said "the universe has no obligation" to get you laid" in response of the argument of your significant other being predetermined?
Wouldn't having no free will validate the claim that your significant other IS predetermined since you have no choice and 'this is how things would've turned out anyways'?
Checkmate Kyle.
Love the show.
Kyle: Are you hungry maybe?
Me: nodding my head in agreement as my mouth is stuffed with food
Sounds like Kyle is trying real hard to justify himself being a super villain
myrturbine one of these days he’s gonna get caught and has all the proof he needs to plead insanity. It’s genius
An_bod_ Y true
"Are you as free as you feel?" that question will now haunt me forever.
Nobody:
USA: "And I'm proud to be an American
Where at least I know I'm free
And I won't forget the men who died
Who gave that right to me" *F-16's flying in the background while a giant bald eagle carrying an american flag appears*
Look, if you don't have free will, there's nothing you can do about it. So why worry about it? You feel like you have free will, and the world works as if you have free will, so just live life as if you have free will.
The Joker has had professional help getting into Arkham. Also he often breaks free or is let loose before the trial. Harley is a great example of how his persona influences others
Kyle: "I AM NOT A SUPERVILLAIN!! I AM NOT"
*Video trying to defend a supervillain so they do not face punishment for their crimes*
Kyle: "IM NOT"
Am I the only one that read this in the voice of Tommy Wiseau?
I didn't read it in his voice until you mentioned it.....then I re-read it in his voice lmao
Matt Dowds I didn’t even mean to do that and it makes it SOOOO much better. Thank you.
"Men get arrested, dogs get put down." I think of that line every time I think of the Joker.
That's Rorschach though
Jacob Keary I am aware of that. Was making the reference because it fits how I feel about the Joker.
@@theViewer221 gotcha
He's allready making his defence for the time he's getting convicted as a super villain
I just want to say thank you. My brother is currently in jail right now, and has been in and out of the system for a while. My entire family has struggled with mental illness our entire lives. And I deeply appreciate you guys helping people to put themselves in the shoes of those in such a terrible situation with no reasonable way out.
I’m very sorry to hear about your story. I hope your brother is currently well.
@@pressftopayrespects6325 Thank you 💛 He was finally able to get himself free of the system recently thanks to a PO who understood how things go.
@@Ghostly_Chris Really glad to hear!
Don't have children if possible. Don't pass your genes. Or if ur "fine" then adopt
Kyle: "Close your eyes for a moment. Are they closed?"
Me: Oh hell no!! I saw what evil Kyle did, I ain't getting back stabbed
The music stopped,
then my heart stopped.
"because philosophy."
There's a gooooooood bit of neuroscience. But yea it starts with philosophy and that's also where the fatal bullet is delivered. Since Libertarian Free Will is logically impossible (as in, the rules of logic).
Kyle: Are you as free as you feel?
Eren Yeager has entered chat....
He became a scumbag, all those titans in him are really breaking and remodeling his psyche, maybe it's the first king's persona that took over his body
Iskandar Ben Mustapha if I remember right. That is basically why everyone was still on the island. Anyone who takes that titan ends up following the same plan whether they want to or not.
"Think of a city"
Me: Cairo, Egypt.
"Why that city?"
Me: Because I was just reading a thing about it.
"Why not Dublin?"
Me: Because Cairo was more immediately on my mind.
"Why not Cairo?'
Me: ...
He probably meant, "think of a random city"... and you're missing the point
Woah angry little man! Of course he was pulling a city at random. But with all the cities in the world, he just happened to name the one I thought of.
You have trouble standing straight lately or something?
@@Dragnfly_mynamewastaken He didn't even sound that angry but you went on a whole damn tangent...
@@Beefyjesus0 he probably thinks he is above us because of his 60 likes comment with the way he talks.
You’re all weird, Joel didn’t miss the point, Jared didn’t seem angry, just wrong, and Joel didn’t go on a tangent, they just explained themselves, which wasn’t very superior of them, perfectly normal when being told they’d missed a point they probably hadn’t, and even if they were being superior, it wasn’t likely like related.
Wasn't expecting to delve into Determinism, but here we are.
Damn video got deep quick
Because Philosophy.
Ya never know what life's gonna throw at you.
Also I can very clearly remember points in my childhood where I was aware that I had a decision that I needed to make that would affect my development as a personality and a person in the future. And many times even given all the previous information about my life it seems to me my choices in these situations were not predictable. Is free will totally dead when we are able to contradict and act against our snap reactions, or when our snap reaction is uncertainty forcing us to make a conscious decision?
I agree. We make choices. I've heard this video's argument before and it's weak.
"It takes one bad day to turn the sanest man alive to lunacy."
That can't be true -- kH
@@becausescience That's how far the world is from where I am. One. Bad. Day.
That was actually proven false in the same comic it was mentioned it with Gordon. After every evil thing Joker did to him, he was still a good man.
It doesn't take one bad day to drive a man insane.
It takes a lack of will to just give up. I've had plenty of bad days, each a chance for me to just lose my mind, but I didn't.
I'm I jaded, cynical, self loathing? Yes. But I was never driven mad. I never gave up. Close friends of mine never gave up.
To turn to evil, or "insanity" as the joker likes to call it, shows he wasn't strong enough to keep going.
"We both stared into the adyss. But when it looked back at you, you blinked."
That's a much more fitting quote.
@@Aosgood94 "You Killed the Joke"
I was originally going to make some joke about how "I'm schizoaffective and have fore-brain damage, so when I close my eyes nothing defined pops into my head it's just a bunch of static and the voices of a busy cafe from behind a brick wall" but this video actually went over some things I'd like to talk about a little - no real science (or delusional cross-pollination of science fact and fiction, which I know can happen sometimes when I get excited); in this comment, just a bit about what it's like to be one of the real people who suffer from heavy mental illness.
The first thing (you might've noticed already from the first paragraph) is I'm actually completely aware that I can be delusional and even what those delusions are; to explain how I need an example so I'll use the one that's the easiest to put into words, the inability to truly believe that fantasy style Magic is impossible regardless of how versed I am in physics or other physical sciences, to the point it causes anxiety over the lingering paranoia that other people may have the ability to give themselves some form of mindsight, or do other things I know are impossible that might compromise my privacy or safety on a fundamental level. like I mentioned before it can even get in the way of my ability to separate science, science fiction, and straight up fantasy at a base level, causing the real information and the "Hyperjargon" (all the random strings of words and concepts that get thrown together in entertainment media with either no regard for real life, or that are made to specifically fly in the face of reality) to be inseparably mixed together in my memory.
I can get around it well as long as I have access to well sourced and trusted research materials (I have gotten treatment and a little training to cope), but that does mean I can't trust ANY of the information in my own head - I even have to mark and schedule when I've eaten sometimes because I can, occasionally, formulate fake memories of eating that can make me go days without food sometimes. You might notice that, after going over the info for this, fixing a delusion seams impossible- and it is. it never goes away, you just find ways to correct your thoughts after they make mistakes.
The other big one I want to talk about is choice hyper awareness. because of my fore-brain damage, I lost the ability to have "reflexive desires" (I probably worded that incorrectly, but I'm doing my best) - I can't want something unless I actively debate myself on whether or not I want it. That's not to say "I have more free will!" because it only works that way for desires, not for things like panic responses, fears, aggression, or depressive triggers - but it's more to say that when you lose the ability to have the innate responses of the self, trying to choose instead becomes daunting. It often ends up spiraling to the point that, for a lot of people with this issue, it becomes easier to accept that you just don't want anything - which often shows as Asocial behavior and the inability to understand others, or completely withdrawing.
I'm gonna end it here because it feels like I might be starting to rant and generalize, but I still want to say Thanks Kyle, it helps me feel a little more like a person to know that it's not just people who are sick or broken that don't make the choice too be who they are, or the things they want - we just concentrate on it more often than others 'u'
fascinating reading. Ive struggled with mental health issues my self and I can very much relate to the concept of false memories you mention. I can recommend learning meditation techniques - what kyle is here is the very basic stuff. look up the Buddhist and Hindu techniques - they have the best knowledge of it.
@@bigolbearthejammydodger6527 I do use meditation and mindful thinking techniques, and they can be incredibly helpful! Admittedly It's not as useful once even minor hallucinations get involved (there's a lot more to it than just sensory information, there is a mental and thought process shift that comes along with it), but that's why I find it better to have a wide foundation of coping mechanisms, strategies, and plans with friends and/or family about what to do when things get bad or go wrong!
Professional help is always best though, and I'm lucky to live somewhere that, even though I don't have the money for a permanent psychologist, I have been able to vist hospital and emergency psyc services for free often enough to get the help I need - just today I got some big steps for that done 'u'
Still though, thank you! I alway appreciate advice ^u^
I'm replying here so I can find this comment easier. Here's hoping it gets a lot of upvotes so everyone else can. : )
Hi, here, have some love ❤❤❤❤❤❤
Personally I would like to read more about your fascinating mind please write more If you're comfortable with that...
"What's the first thing that pops into your head?"
My head: Pop Tarts
I've never even eaten a pop tart, what the hell
It was chicken wings for me
Boobs
It was a literal living chicken in a field. I had just finished eating chicken breasts before this video.
I thought of Pornhub strangely enough..
Yeah. What the hell. Why have you never eaten a pop tart?
He is “illegally” insane.
Dang...LegalEagle has really let himself go. Can't believe he gave up on hair cuts and sold all his Indochino suits.
*fist bumps*
I was disappointed that Stone wasn't asked to collab on this.
"When did you choose to be you?"
I choose my current persona about 6 years ago. Dealing with live becomes easier when wearing a mask suited to your environment.
Absolutely spot on.
Current persona, or the actual thoughts you have immediately, the feelings you have on subjects?
AJ Agler one can always lay down new lines of programming to their personality. Removing old ones is dodgy at best and usually impossible but you can write a work around to avoid old circuits. But they will always be there ready to spring into action, one a smoker always a smoker for instance. So your base program is just what you started with but you get to build the rest from there, only there are no resets are the delete key is broken so it always works out to be an organic mess that often does not know what the heck is different parts are even doing but somehow still works.
choice is not mearly thought but action...
i chose to click this video, and i chose to write this comment and its contents, of course i did not choose my emotinal state or my views on sentiance however i do chose to follow reason action and consiquence, i dont belive in freewill for humans, just partial freewill, we can ditermine our selves within a limited range, but that does not make that range meaningless
as for bears and sharks, they simply are what we are, a combination of their instincts and enviroments mixed with their own sentiance... all to much leaser degress then humans but still the principales which guide a bear are aplicable to humans, did you chose to get angry, no, but did you chose how far to let that anger control you?... well more so then a bear certainly... as for range of thought and degree of control over it, its impossible for limited human minds to have unlimited control over them selves that would imply an imateral are etherial extention of the brain... perhaps a soul... unlikely. we are maliable and versital but only so much the term freewill should be changed to a more realistic spectrum on which we may rank very highly but anything less bound by instinct and enviroment and more intelegant then us, would have greator, but still not complete freewill. Even a strong A.I. covering multipale planets would still have limits to its control over its enviroment, it's self and the depths of its intelegence.
try taking the masks off for a little while some time... you may be suprised to see what comes out of your mouth when your head is allowed to run wild without conciance, care, reason, or worry... its not friendly but it is you unfiltured and unrestrained, the closest we as limited humans will ever get to true freewill... and youll only see the chance online free from the opinnions of the friends and family that bind you to humanity... well the social aspect of humanity at least... theres a great rush to be had in cutting loss and unleashing your every thought and impolse without any filter... though to be fair youll not make friends like that so keep that to the places you dont care about... C : its what i do. and im still alive for some reason.
This would have been a perfect crossover with Legal Eagle.
I know right.
I was just going to type that!
Sponsored by Batwoman?
Hey, you wanna hear a Joke?
no
yes
@@Ardeshir8 wanna know how I got these scars?
8:36 well that just got very existential, and now I’m uncomfortable.
The Time Capsule ah i don't want to live anymore 🙇🏻♂️
@@someonelikeyou6138 Suck it up, you don't got a choice.
Good. Now act on that feeling.
I'd love to see Legal Eagle tackle this since he's, y'know, a lawyer
I feel like it would come to the same conclusion that joker would not be found criminally insane, but it would be gone in legal eagle's style.
@@ajd2393 oh yeah of course but he'd be able to go more in depth
@@biohazard724 true...very true.
On Twitter he said he liked the video, but I could have done a better job defending my client -- kH
@@becausescience 😂
_Ever seen so angry that you skipped anger and went straight to laughing like a lunatic?_
*~ The Joker*
Today during my morning commute.
"Because Social Science..." (with a touch of biological deterministic philosophy)
And just straight up philosophy as far as Libertarian Free Will being logically impossible. The rules of logic do not allow for it.
Kyle you bring up gut reaction type thinking. The "now pick a color" or "think of a person" by definition that is a reaction. Just like when a pencil is rolling off the edge of the table you see out the corner of your eye and your body reacts faster than you can actually think "i need to stop that before it falls" many people get surprised in that moment because they feel that whole "wow my body did that on it's own" feeling.
We as humans can always improve. And if we think about it we can choose things regularly. We may not know exactly why we choose that exact thing but we do have the choice. If someone walking down the street cut a random large chunk of your hair, you have your initial reaction that you trained and can work on improving throughout your life. You know your strengths and weaknesses and can choose to work on them. Then as you collect yourself you can choose how to take it and how far, when you drop it when do you go to your stylist to retake control, whether or not you choose to post it on social media. Yes there are things in your past that influence it but just as the past influences your current self, your current decisions, goals and tasks forms your future oppurtunities. It isn't safe to promote a "well I didn't have a choice" philosophy. It is much better to promote a "you can always become better and the time to choose to is now" philosophy.
I wish you would have brought up how mentalist, advertisers and salesmen all use these reactionary thoughts to their advantage. Maybe then people will be more likely to try to pause themselves and give themselves the choice before going along with another's whim...
Even the choice to try and react differently in the future to sometning isn't really a choice. Given who you were at that point, and whatever happened to instigate that decision it was always the only thing you could do. A different scenario might have caused a different reaction, a different person might have reacted differently but that didn't happen.
The best description I was given is you don't choose, you excerise judgment. Some things are reactive, but if faced with a decision and time to think it's your knowledge, values, experience and beliefs that drive the descion combined with whatever the situation is (as you understand it). Since those things are what they are at that point there isn't an actual choice, your mind may go through a process of weighing things up but it can only come to one conclusion.
It's a bit of a scary idea but if you really think about it the alternative would be some random factor. It wouldn't actually give you choice or free will, just sometimes you would choose things for no reason. I don't see that as better.
Good to know I’m not the only person here who wasn’t a fan of his determinism
I think we have a supernerd nomination on our hands here, ladies and gentlemen
I chose to be me when I tried to cross the border and ran right into that imperial ambush
"You're finally awake!"
@@YaBoiMcLovin ARCHERS!
Same as me, and that Thief over there
Funny. When I was a boy, Imperial walls and towers used to make me feel so safe.
You guys win
Joker muttering under his breath that he's guilty, like Goofy, in the distance.
I'm Mickey's best lawyer
The demons told me to.
"Arkham is for the criminally insane. You are criminally capable." - Bane
Kyle: "What are your thoughts? "
My brain: *blank*
I think I'm not okay
Have you tried turning yourself off then on again?
**Wii music plays**
Kyle: "When did you choose to be you?"
Me: "When I rolled a 14 for INT and had to take a 5 in CHA"
I rolled a 16 in INT and put my 3 in strength
I rolled a 3 in int and 3 in strength
@@hariodinio where did the good stats go? I have a 12 dex, 10 wis, my cha can be anywhere between 3 and 18 depending on the day (i know it weird), and my constitution is a solid 13
@Greig91 Im talking my real life stats
The highest I ever rolled for charisma was a 5. I'm never sexy in these things.
"Would you punish a shark? Would you punish a bear?"
Yes. Some animals that prove to be extraordinarily violent and a threat to their environment often get hunted or put down.
Indeed
"Could you ever have chosen otherwise?"
So, philosophers who study this sort of question understand that the word 'could' here is what we call a modal operator: it conveys some idea about what is possible or necessary. To actually analyze a modal operator, we need to know its domain, because there are different sorts of possibility and necessity. For instance, something may be *logically* possible but not *physically* possible. (Example: there is no logical contradiction in something being Water but not H2O. However, it may be a physical or metaphysical impossibility given the fact that in the actual world, water is H20. This is a classic way to make this distinction, as names may exist as terms in a logical statement, but the relationship between those names may require further knowledge of the actual composition of the world.)
So to answer, "Could you ever have chosen otherwise?" we need to know the domain of the modal operator: what sort of possibility are we talking about?
Kyle seems to rely on something like physical or maybe some more nuanced sort of possibility like biological or biochemical possibility here. (Yes, the domains can get that specific) Something like, "Given your brain chemistry and the state you were in, could you have chosen differently?" And, short of a belief in something magical like a causally efficacious immaterial soul or contracausal free will, the answer is pretty clearly "No." But it's worth noting that this is a different sort of possibility than is typically used in legal or moral reasoning. There, the standard is something more like logical possibility or possibly even a sui generis legal possibility.
(Note: not an attorney, do not take this as legal advice) A person *can* be let off the hook for a crime if it was "impossible" for them to not commit it, or if the consequences for not committing it were bad enough (which is defined more technically but varies from place to place) but this isn't a sort of physical possibility. The physical question can be reframed as, "Given the physical state of the world, could another event have taken place?" Quantum probability aside (as it does not often factor significantly into macro-scale interactions like criminal acts) this isn't the question that is asked in a legal evaluation. Rather, the possibility question here is better reframed as something like, "Could a reasonable person have acted differently in the same scenario?" So it is not a matter so much of physical states as some standard of reasonableness.
For instance: say some criminal super-genius, we'll call him Evil Kyle for the sake of simplicity, threatens to kill your family if you don't steal $1 million from your local bank for him. If you commit the crime, you might still be let off the hook when it goes to trial: no one expects you to let your family be murdered and if a reasonable person in your circumstance would have done the same, you may be let go. (Although Evil Kyle would still be liable for your crime in this scenario) If, however, you shot and killed someone in committing the crime you might *still* be legally liable for the shooting as Evil Kyle did not coerce you to violence, only to robbery.
So it seems like Kyle is asking the wrong question, because he is using the wrong modality to answer it. At least from the perspective of the law and legal scholars.
Kyle better mention your comment in footnotes. If he doesn't, it proves he's a supervillain for ignoring such an awesome comment!
I'm not convinced that quantum effects don't regularly affect decision making. A quantum interaction might be the difference between a neuron firing or not which could be the tipping point between choosing one course of action over another.
This would be an interesting thing to test using neural networks.
That being said it's irrelevant to the topic of free will, a choice being determined by a dice throw is no freer than one which is pre-determined.
When it comes to morality I agree we should be looking at it from a different framework than the determinism debate though, there clearly are qualitative differences between us and most animals or modern computers, traits which allow us to be moral agents capable of putting ourselves in the shoes of others, consider consequences, learn from experiences etc and since "free will" is so often linked to questions of morality it makes sense to use these factors in the definition IMO.
Sui generis: Law - when a special and unique interpretation of a case or authority is necessary
Intellectual property rights, where there is no defining characteristic
Philosophy - to indicate an idea, an entity, or a reality that cannot be reduced to a lower concept or included in a higher concept
The M'Naghten rule isn't about whether it was physical or free will or mental illness but rather the ability to recognize what one was doing or the morality/wrongfullness of the act. Thus a person who in the "throes of a psychotic breakdown" murders someone is unable to have "insight" into their actions. i.e. That a stabbing could harm someone or that it is wrong to stab.
It doesn't matter if they could have made a different choice. In arguing insanity you must say that you committed the act and could not have acted in a reasonable manner.
Being coerced, or rather, duress, isn't really analogous. As it seeks to prove that the "reasonable person in the defendant’s position also would have committed the crime." Think more along the lines of self defense.
One is more based on the reasonable actions one could have taken (ie called the cops while driving to bank) versus what other reasonable people would have done. The other acquits the person of the act because they were unable to _behave and/or think_ reasonably, regardless if it was physical or psychological (such as a temporary rage before you regained your mental balance). The gay panic or the trans defense are examples where sane people with no mental health issues, other than bigotry, use temporary insanity.
Oh and being excused and acquitted means freedom vs potentially being locked up until you die.
Fun fact 30 Minutes or Less is based on a 'true' story of someone being forced to commit a robbery. Except in reality he was a part of it.
globalnews.ca/news/5067861/rohinie-bisesar-path-stabbing-review/
www.justia.com/criminal/defenses/duress/
Interesting
my favorite super villain, explaining my favorite super villain....
Joker isn't criminally insane, he's "W0k3"
There is actualy a theory that he's aware that he's fictional.
I don't choose to feel an itch but I do choose if I want to scratch it. I don't choose if I'm hungry but I do choose when to eat.
OBJECTION! LegalEagle needs to cross-examine this case.
Man of culture, I see
I just search in the comments for this!
Sustained! I like both shows, but I actually clicked on this thinking it was going to be a LegalEagle video based on the new movie, lol.
Sustained!
thanks for the existential crisis science Thor :(
Don't worry Loki is just tricking him into doing this episode.
How does a judge laugh
Law-L
Ok I tried
Here is my like, and the door is right there
It's bad. Really bad.
I laughed
Boooo
Whats a Judge's favorite part of a party?
The h-Order-ves
Is it weird that I really took the time to choose a lot of these things? I've changed a lot if the things about myself over the years...
There is a single catch: when the Joker's personality is suppressed in the comics, in main line continuity, it is shown that he is remorseful for the actions that he has committed while being the Joker.
HOWEVER, the current definitions do not allow for Joker to be criminally insane. If a form of multiple personality disorder can be considered as part of the case for criminal insanity, then yes.
“When did you choose to be you” also brings up the question of who is the “you” choosing who “you” should be. There has to be a “you” to make the decision for the concept of decision to exist, but how can there be a “you” to make the decision if there must first be a “you” to make the decision but that “you” can’t exist before the decision is made.
You start to exist when you are born, and that isn't your decision
“When did you decide to be yourself?” Yo could you not Kyle! I mean you really are a super villain pulling that out of nowhere!
I kinda feel like this might give a lot of people existential crisis. I got the remedy for that. If there's nothing you can do about free will, hey, you still feel like you are you, and you still feel like you have free will. And the world we live in works as if you are you and as if you have free will. So live life as if you have free will.
He's echoing Sam Harris who is a neuroscientist. Check Harris out on youtube. Specifically his speech on free will.
A Californian writer of books? Can first world pop culture get any more myopic.
As someone with depression, that line hurt more than it should have.
@@mattk6101 I think this guy did an excellent job:
th-cam.com/video/o0GN4urbA_c/w-d-xo.html
"would you punish a shark, would you punish a bear" "for some feeling of revenge or malice", Kyle your bordering on psychology and the presence of conscious thought
Objection! Defense Attorney entered the well.
Wait this isnt Legal Eagle.
Matt C HA!
That gets you tackled!
Definitely not an Indochino fitted suit.
Hi Kyle,
love the show! Especially happy to see philosophy getting some love from the science folks (I'm a philosophy PhD student myself, working on the ethics of punishment).
A thought on your great discussion of moral responsibility: In the philosophical debate, it's not obvious that the principle of alternate possibilities (PAP) holds. Meaning: Even if you couldn't have acted otherwise (or thought otherwise), you might still be morally responsible for your actions. The philosopher Harry Frankfurt famously tried to refuse the PAP will the help of thought experiments that were supposed to be counter examples to it.
But even recent empirical research points in that direction: laypeople seem to still ascribe moral responsibility even in cases where all the actions could have been predicted by a super computer. But people are less confident in ascribing responsibility in cases of manipulation. Imaging that an evil scientist (let's call him Kyle) programmed someone in such a way that this person would murder someone at a certain date - in this case, responsibility tends to not be ascribed. Thus, laypeople appear to be intuitive compatibilists, meaning that they take determinism and free will to be compatible. This doesn't show that free will actually exists, but it might change the perspective on the debate concerning moral responsibility.
Keep up the great work!
That sounds quit interesting! I want to hear more about it, can you point me to the research?
@@timn.5036 Sure! The empirical research is by Eddy Nahmias and colleagues: "It's OK if 'my brain made me do it'" published 2014 in Cognition. You can find the relevant work of Harry Frankfurt in his book 'The Importance of What we Care About'
@@valerijzisman5046 Thanks for the information!
"A simple super villain lawyer" so do you mean a Super Villain that is also a lawyer? Or a lawyer for Super Villains? Cause...it could go either way with you.
He is....... both.
About an hour ago, I was listening to my Spotify playlist & a song called "just an illusion" by imagination came on.
My playlist is on random.
Then I start watching TH-cam videos, at random, & now I'm here & he just asked, "is this just an illusion?"
Is any of this actually random or is it by design?
I did not expect any of this when I clicked the video.
Manifestation through subconscious thoughts
Jesus Kyle, you went so philosophical, I haven't thought about my self like this in so long... Even though it's probably how I think all the time without realizing it.. Kyle why... Why did you do this?
when they say "super sanity" I've always seen it as he's so intelligent that he realizes the absurdity of modern society and he's trying to show everyone how fickle and fragile it is
I'm pretty sure it's something like this. As though it is some type of higher social awareness the same way our social systems are above that of animals/prehistoric man. But even if that's the case, it opens the door for the discussion that things are only normal, right and wrong due to what's considered that by today's standards and that those standards/ways of thinking are fluid just as they have been throughout history. What we consider morally and ethically right/wrong is not what was seen that way and not what will be seen that way in the future which might beg the question of if the morality of today can be used to judge someone who is "above" it like the Joker.
My first thought was that Super Sanity in the Joker's case was that he knows or at least has some idea that he's just a comic book character, so he's not actually in control of his actions or he's just playing his part in the "story."
Pretty sure, (and of course I might be wrong) but the concept of super-sanity in comic books implies that they are so sane/insane that they KNOW they are in a comic and knows that their actions mean nothing since they and the other "main characters" are protected by "plot armor" so no matter what they do they will be "fine" in the end. Deadpool is the Marvel example of this.
@@morlath4767 l would say that's true in part that it extends to us creating an artificial construct that we has more truth to it than it really does. We have gone from knowing and judging right and wrong to simply accepting what we are told is the right or wrong thing. It's the acceptance of these ideas even though many of us disagree with them or the people that made those decisions that is the fake reality. Things like courts releasing people that are clearly guilty because if a legal loophole or technicality, people going to work each day just to pay bills that will never end or accepting the decisions of clearly corrupt governments or officials. There are many things in the current world we accept or take for granted that we wouldn't if we were made to seriously stop and think about them.
no it means he realises he's a fictional character
"When was the last time you chose to be you?" About 6 months ago, actually. I just floated along through life, doing whatever I happened to come across. I decided to take the reigns in my life.
But regardless, the point of the prison system is not to settle questions of free will - it's to try and prevent crimes by fulfilling 4 methods.
1. Deterrence: "Oh, prison isn't fun, maybe robbing the bank isn't a good idea."
2. Separation: A criminal can't hurt people that they can't reach.
3. Retribution: This actually protects the criminal by making sure that the wronged parties feel that justice had been served, and so there won't be a lynching going on.
4. Rehabilitation: To reshape and reform the criminal in to a functioning member of society.
Which is why simply having a mental disease is not enough to make you legally insane. However, if you can't tell right from wrong - if you can't tell that what you were doing was not acceptable, then the prison isn't helping. It's not deterrence, and it won't rehabilitate someone who is so drastically out of the mold.
And thus why they need specialized help in an attempt at rehabilitation (which, while perhaps vein, has a better chance than a generalized prison) , while still separating this dangerous person from society.
And then there are victim-less crimes like drug use... Sigh. At absolute worst, it should be punished by detention in a specialized facility meant to help the users get clean, just like the criminally insane. But those "crimes" frustrate me. Even more so that they are sent to prison, which doesn't help! (At least by the general model. Some prisons actually have wards dedicated to helping prisoners get clean, but then are still sometimes serving multiple years in prison, which is probably longer than needed to overcome an addiction.)
As for the brain tumor thing, it's simple: The problem was solved by surgery, and probably wasn't solvable by the prison system. Viola, he's a productive member of society again, problem solved.
That does have more disturbing implications, such as when we are partially/completely cybernetic, and our memories (which lead to our action) themselves can be surgically removed with just a surge of electricity. But let's leave that for when the time comes.
SangoProductions213 sometimes, prisons fail to rehabilitate (for society) the people who are leaving them, and these people who have essentially lost years from their lives and haven’t accumulated knowledge and experiences from those years can’t get a job that will support them. Sometimes the past prisoner will commit a crime to go back to a place where they are fed, the same prison that didn’t help them in the first place.
@@lucankeyser2111 I'm talking about the principle about why prisons are used, not about their specific implementations in any given place.
That said, prison laborers have a significantly lower recidivism rate than those who don't work and earn skills...despite Democrat claims that it's exploitation or whatever.
If that were true, you'd expect to see great recidivism rates in the hardest workers so that they can be put back to work.
well, he was institutionalized in the arkham asylum. So... yes, he was legally insane
"Because philosophy" when? genuinely :3
Yes please!!!
I concur and second this motion!
All opposed?
Studies have shown our brains retroactively write in memories of our choosing a course of action after we unconsciously performed them, for example it's been shown it's not possible to consciously choose to hit a fastball in baseball, our reaction times aren't fast enough, but batters will invent the memory of their choosing to swing and insert that memory before the memory of swinging the bat. It is theorized we do this to preserve our egos, as the knowledge that we aren't actually in control of our actions would be debilitating.
Man, I did not sign up for an existential crisis today, but thanks.
Also, this is really neat
Even actions that don't require fast reflexes happen before we decide. There have been studies using EKG and a button pressing exercise that shows our brain "decides" what button we're going to push before we consciously pick one. I would argue that this has nothing to do with ego, and is just a blind rationalization for lack of any conscious evidence to the contrary. Literally, we don't know we don't know.