Caedrel Reacts To IWD Quitting LEC & Gives His Opinion On The State Of LEC
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 27 ส.ค. 2024
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its crazy how Rogue management speedran a championship winning, worlds quarterfinals roster to 10th place LEC, that nobody wants to watch. so fucking disgusting.
Also don't forget they weren't just a one season wonder. At that point they were consistently top1 regular split team for like 4-5 splits in a row. Ofc they always choked in playoffs that's why their eventual win mattered a lot, but going from consistently 1st place to consistently is tragic.
same thing as DRX no?
@@justinliu1014 DRX wasn't ever considered as top-tier org/team. They were always kind of bottom-mid, sometimes grabbing/finding good players (Zeka, Keria etc.). Their worlds win was rather unexpected and it was pretty clear the org wouldn't maintain that level. They had no money to keep the players that won them worlds, because thos players all of the sudden were very high rated and alot of teams were willing to spend big on them. So it was kind of inevitable that DRX would fall off again.
@@justinliu1014
DRX was a dark horse. They are the only team not first/second seed of their region to win Worlds.
@@justinliu1014 DRX has had 2 good years. 2020 and 2022. Thier 2020 season they finished 3rd and 2nd so they were actually doing pretty well that year since they had Chovy, Doran, Keria and Deft alongside a then fairly unknown Pyosik so that year they were expected to do well.
2022 they werent even expected to qualify for worlds. They barely scraped victories over KT and Sandbox (Now FearX) to qualify. 2022 DRX began thier miracle run before they had even qualified.
I can absolutely understand IWD here. With both the layoffs and the reclining quality of the gameplay it just feels like a waste of time watching it. Yeah I will still watch internationals, but I have been following EU league even when we were still the EU LCS and I have now reached a point in which I havent watched a single full game during the split
Edit: I swear the last point is actually Huge. No Roadshows is one of the biggest Buzzkills ever. No one gives a shit about the final week at this point
I think the bar was set so high from 2018-2021 that now getting back to the mean feels bad. The produciton was really insane + having some really good teams makes it hard to reproduce, especially considering the layoffs. I think the level of play is not as low as people make it out to be but there is for sure a huge drop between 2020 and the years after. The biggest problems are the lack of new personalities and a lot of good players leaving. But this year the overall level of gameplay in all regions is lower compared to last year (excluding GenG). LPL also feels a lot weaker and a lot more boing to watch too (compared to last year) because the good teams from last year got separated and the good players are not concentrated in the best teams.
@petarpetrov1784 I think problem with lec as well is the level of play not only dropped, but as viewer there isnt much of a narrative. We all know G2 is gonna win because these teams cant help but choke during the playoffs. Im not blaming G2 I think they are the expection that is actually trying to carry this dumpster fire of the region. Lec in itself with contract blocks and nepotism from staff is starting hurt any competitive nature the league has.
@petarpetrov1784 Nah to even, I didn't watch or played the game for years and only came back in 2023. The EU LCS from 2015 was more entertaining than this year league, last year was a weak year for LEC as you saw at Worlds but it was really nice to watch for the entire year.
LPL production is worse for english viewers lmao, LPL aint even that good anymore
You know it’s bad when LCS is better than LEC now
The fact Dom genuinely acknowledge twice (including when a chatter said he may just be mad about costreaming rights) that he could just be partly biased sells his take far more than I expected. I expected him to completely deflect that bias or lash out at the chatter. Def agree w him & Caedrel though.
Never expected him to be like that. Pretty cool actually. I kinda like him when he is not in the "omg pro flash against wall? What a silver" mood
That's the real Dom, I feel like he has this weird perception outside of his own community, he's seen as this weirdo hater toxic guy. But if you stop and watch him, he's exactly like this clip shows it, he loves the game, he has a genuine passion for content creation, and I'm sure he's mad because the LEC being boring is bad for league competitive and his not happy about quitting.
@@laeliuss7495 I just know some clips of them where he was mostly fair and his commentarys together with Yamato where he is super unfair and toxic. One time he watched a game solo so i warched him and he was not toxic at all. Seems like he gets toxic in group but idk i dont watch him enough to know that.
@@NoobNoobZug Group calls make it more about entertainment and not analysis. Its usually pretty funny but the in depth stuff is gonna get lost
@@NoobNoobZugif you watch him with The Sack is pretty obvious that they'll ramp up the talking so that they make each other laugh. It's genuinely funny when they just call: "Every player here should be jailed" after a bad play. But if you watch his tier lists for example, he gives all good, well researched, reasonable takes. And the guy is genuinely like an encyclopedia of competitive league knowledge.
Honestly , if it wasn't for Caedrels Co streams I wouldnt even watch LEC, Just internationals and probably LCK
Yeah after last year. I was kinda done with league. If not for Co streams, I would definitely not watch any league anymore. Except for G2 Vs TES I can't even remember a game I fully watched this year. I thought maybe it's just me, but Lec game quality is abysmal.
But I also have to say I am fatigued with always the same picks and nothing new at all. They should just drop a patch that nukes everything and then try to balance it again maybe then we don't have to watch the same shit over and over again.
@@gokuderahayato2304 I honestly started watching the YT vids of most games and tune in to the stream for the "hype games " but even the LEC hype games have become so boring and do not get me started on draft picks when every game was lucian / nami , Zeri/ Lulu or Senna Tahm with Ksante. Absolutely disgusting and resident sleeper
I went from watching G2 games during dinner on my phone along with all other games after dinner to missing most of their games because i just couldn't be bothered with these 9 game seasons, not even sure i'm gonna watch the playoff stage.
Agree with a lot of Caedrel said about format and strength
I also think that a lot of it can be summed up as "if the teams don't seem to care, why should I, a viewer?"
The 3 season split is horrible. You have barely 4 weeks to "make it", trophies feel worthless. I remember when splits were longer G2 once also almost didn't make playoffs, if it had been such a short format they had been out.
Too many splits, winning doesnt really matter any more
Format killed LEC. Shit teams and KC and MAN fans finished it
I agree with Dom and Caedrel.
The fact that there's no sense of identity and theres just so many splits and meaningless games all jumbled together and those horrendous bottom tier teams like Rogue just infesting us with boring gameplay every single week, and those useless Bo1 and no content, and those studio finals that mean nothing, like the first split of the year was useless the second one was basically the same shit. We need some chance ASAP or the league will be like last year LCS
Last year LCS? Havent this guy heard that Riot is making LCS a minor region next year. The problem with LEC is like you said, its boring and the format is so bad, but people still watch the league by some miracle, LEC this year had the highest viewing numbers ever so people clearly watch it alot its around 800k-1mil. The problem with LCS is that no matter how good the format is or what changes they make, no one watches that league like… they just cant get eyes to watch NA. They do good at worlds and win FNC and no one cares, there is literally zero souls that give a fck. There is hype for the core NA audience who always watch like Dom for example, the format is great and all, but still NA is less viewed than Europes tier 2 league LFL… Like tier 2 leagues like LFL or Brazil has more viewing than NA and it will never change sadly. They now merge NA to a minor region and it literally pissed off the minor region?? Shouldnt they be happy to become a ”major region”, no they hate it xdd
@@leevimasalin2301 It's not solely the fact that no one cares, But legit the only "Good" They did at worlds is NRG Beating G2 Which let's be honest was a fucking hail mary in it's own accord, and then One team did good cause they beat Fnatic yes, But did you forget that FlyQuest legit got dropped by Paris? Like the difference between LEC and LCS is that in LEC there are good Teams like SK , Fnatic , G2 and BDS , While also there are shit teams like VIT , Mad , Rogue etc. In LCS literally there isn't a team that they can say, YES we can compete in worlds or MSI , Cause again in MSI the only "Good" Run TL had was beating the second seed of EU , their second seed being beaten by the PCS and literally have their First Seed Dumpstered by the east, Not saying G2 did any better but come on, G2 at least took T1 to 5 Games and dismantled TOP. And even then G2 doesn't even seem to be the strongest Team in EU cause SK Beat them and only lost like 1 or 2 Games. Like a lot of people are saying Eu just has a Lot of stupid and pointless games along with the "Shields" Being a mickey mouse competition that doesnt matter if you win or not. It's basically just Ego boost.
@@vvuulven6382 I agree with you on everything you just said. Hopefully the format changes next year.
@@leevimasalin2301That's not a format fault. The problem is that Riot makes their professional league in the franchise model. They should reverse all changes to the point when they start. In this case every match will be for something. There will be also more new players.
@leevimasalin2301 Lol most people don't really play league in the US much anymore, NA dominates esports when it's more sports games or first person shooters. If you ego about your league rank here, people just think ur a virgin lmfao
The lack of roadshows killed an insane amount of hype for me, I went to an esports event one time ever and it was either spring or summer finals in Hamburg with G2 vs Unicorns of Love playing and it was absolutely insane. But this year it felt ultra meaningless. Just compare it to LCK spring finals, that was just insanity how hype that was and I feel like all of this would be possible for the LEC in the future. But with no money and staying the way it is now the LEC will 100% just fade away
Bro i don't think we had a spring stadium finals since 2019.. maybe i am missing
i was there too, it was indeed crazy hype
@@Snootz86 na you might be right, G2 vs UOL was in 2017 spring iirc
Exactly! The finals feel like just another day at the office, it's so sad what they did to LEC when it used to have so much hype. The rap battles they did for playoffs a few years ago were so good.
for me, the reduction in content doesnt mean anything if the teams and games are shit, 2019 lec was so peak because lec had content AND good games, i wont enjoy the current lec more if they kept the good content because there are too many bottom teams
2018/2019 were OFF years and anything but the norm and despite universal praise, had lower viewership than LEC right now
2019 SCHIZO
@@Xzibitfreek I mean the seasons before that felt a bit like it does now, I started watching worlds 2018 because my friends who were long-time fans of fnc was extra hyped. But 2019 brought it all together and got me hooked, it's safe to say its just been a downhill experience after that. Maybe they'll bring it back soon, but it sure sucks being where we are.
Oh well, at least we get an extra international event next year so there's that.
@@Xzibitfreek That's in part due to the fact that the pro scene viewership is almost always growing. More and more people get into it each year.
2018-2020 was peak lec after that shitshow
the top 4 LEC teams are fine, but watching the lower ranked teams play each other actually feels like death, I dont know how else to describe it.
i mean, tha format is really bad, teams this bad as the bottom, should be in elimination brackets, not giving them a second chance to play
@@sergioradicy8550 Then they'll never get better, even if they wanted to. That's a pointless argument.
Honestly, I disagree. I think the top 2 (BDS, SK) have been playing well and fairly cleanly. G2, FNC however, have not been. FNC were doing fine, then they just started playing noticeably worse since their 1st loss. And G2 have been playing around all split.
@@FitzgeraldStanburyWeissV they don't get better even with more chances so it's still pointless, the format is really bad, but there are a lot of other things that are making LEC really worst every year by
Well put 😂
To me, the drop of promotions/relegations was the beginning of the death of LEC, teams dont care anymore, their place is secured next season anyway
its crazy how Rogue management speedran a championship winning, worlds quarterfinals roster to 10th place LEC, that nobody wants to watch. so fucking disgusting.
Yea that was pretty bad. I remember h2k getting first place in regular and getting relegated the next split. That was crazy.
This take has never made any sense to me. Relegation teams 90% of the were worse than today's 9th and 10th seeds. Most of them were underfunded amateurs with no chance to take a game from anyone else. Frachises have more incentive than anyone else they're investing millions of dollars every year into coaching, infrastructure, players. If they suck its -$1,000,000 that isn't a concern of relegation teams.
Every region had its highest peaks under franchise system korea for instance is better than ever. Teams can afford to pay players and build massive orgs. Its just that league esports as a whole in the west is on a downturn + poor economics around the world.
They should just do what the premier league in English football does and give parachute payments to teams that make the LEC for if or when they go down, they give a certain amount of money for 2-3 years so that they can potentially fight back. We desperately need EXCITEMENT return to the league.
Yep, no reason to improve
Caedrel "What does he mean by fans"
Ahem - KKorps (cough cough*)
Ahem - also MAD ;)
That and MAD, both of them
genuinely sad to see these new "fans" of teams get into the league. completely clueless i may add, and pile on top of actual analysts, Content creators and talent and attempt to tarnish these longstanding figures' credibility in the lol scene. Actual aids how kc and mad fans in certain areas of the scene have acted and continue to
Kc and mad fans should be banned. I dislike both teams because of their fans.
Reason why these fandoms annoy me is because fan mentality of mentioned teams feels like: "oh you're not french/spanish? Then F*** YOU". I get the feeling that league/gamestate/plays are completely irrelevant to these fans.
I think what Dom is describing about stagnation is what I'd call maintenance mode. Like the league is in maintenance mode.
You mean life support
@@SoulxWeaver technically maintenance lol
Franchising killed LEC, imagine how spectacular it would be if we had all those narratives about promotion and relegation. Imagine if KC got their Spot for winning EMEA master and then could have been relegated if they failed to adapt. Imagine if EINS could go to the LEC. People thought the prime years of LEC were possible due to Franchising, but it was honestly just the hard work and rebrand. You could have had that and better narratives at the same time.
Franchising kills everything...
@@Darkyryus_ franchising kinda killed NALCS as well. yeah more money got put in but how many of those nba teams backed out. how many of those companies maintained the spot they bought? Echo Fox? Houston Rockets? Golden State Warriors? Etc?
It’s the mentality difference. I feel franchising works in specific ways and regions, but not in general. When you have a huge player base, competitiveness by nature and people passively practicing the game every day, I feel franchising feels wrong.
It’s a little bit comparable with European football. You can’t franchise this, the nature and history doesn’t allow it.
Not that it’s impossible (like in the USA) but far less interesting and emotionally intense for the millions of people who played this game from scratch.
@@ceejaybalbinna franchised and now local players don't even get a chance to play.all teams that make it to internationals are either 4 koreans,4 chinese or 4 europeans
Franchising kikled league, we womt have more G2, and C9 and shit like that, now its just investments left and right to grab money, meh pathetic USA system , trash shit
It‘s just so sad because LEC was always fun because of the content/the people. But if riot doesn’t care for the league you can’t really expect the teams/players/viewers to care for it.
LEC has been struggling for a while now, since 2021 we have only won a single BO5 against a team from China or Korea, and that was this year. We have not made worlds semis since 2020 and only barely managed to scrape a team over to quarters frequently, heck we didn't even manage that last year. I'd say it's fair to say we as a region didn't only stagnate since 2021, but it also felt like a lot of teams stopped caring as well.
It's not even just the teams, the broadcast quality and entertainment level feels like it's been getting worse year by year, where before it was probably the most unique broadcast of the major regions. This year only made things worth with the gutting of the production team.
damn really....and we started losing to NA when they were free games since then.
And G2 is such a giant the seasons feel like they don’t matter either. You see bds or fntc make it to playoffs and you just know they will choke like a mfer and G2 will sweep again.
@@mbrown7325 True G2 is the undisputed best team we've had for years now, but that is also because they are the only team that genuinely cares about the league and is constantly trying to push and improve our region as a whole. I would also find it refreshing to see anyone else win besides G2 and actually challenge them, but non of our teams have been able to come even close to that (except for maybe FNC on a good day). This has led me to cheer only for G2 as they actually still give a crap and try to improve themselves as well as the region
@@MoutPessemier I think SK has a real shot this year. I imagine bds and fntc will be more of the same.
Baus sneaking in a Caedrel clip
The funny moment when the LCS is finally trying to actually be good and the LEC is now just a paycheck region.
LCS going down to 8 teams made the level of play go up so much. It’s the strongest LCS has looked in so, so long. Honestly maybe since 2016.
As someone who used to pretty much watch LEC exclusively (other than internationals) I find myself being more invested in the Korean Academy teams rather than the actual main scene. The format is more interesting, the players seem more interesting and the overall games have been more entertaining for me compared to the bland LEC stuff in the last year or so.
Tbh the format alone makes it way more interesting as theres so much more variety in champ pools and tacticts. LEC is pretty much boring as theres nothing new, everything is copy and paste what ever Korean top teams are running. And the teams play with 20 champ pool. Only ones who dare to be different even a bit are pretty much Wunder and Adam lol.
@@Vilhomatto Agreed. For a while I felt that there at bare minimum needed to be more bans to count for just how large the champion roster is now. The format Fearless Draft or whatever it is they are calling it is, like you said, a nice change that forces at least a larger variety of champions during a series. It still might end up being the same champions picked over the course of the series, but at least it means that each game will be at least different.
Whilst LEC sticks with BO1 it will continue to get worse, throw on top the huge cost cutting right across the board the LEC will continue their race to the bottom..
Sponsors will start pull out and that will signal the beginning of the end for LEC..
Riot seems to given up on League everywhere outside of Asia...
If we don't see LEC move to BO3 + fearless draft over two splits next season LEC is dead...
i agree now that every region will have 3 splits and probably fearless draft there's no way that they change the format for each region . Just copy what LCK does and import the best LCK challengers players and get the league to a better lvl then eu rookies will come in at 18 yold hopefully not 25 and if they are good they will be able to play and grow in the lec and reach top teams
the saudis will come bro and rescue the league dw
The saudis are busy with dota 2
@@GothPaoki not for long...
They are going for basically every sport and esport they can.
I appreciate Caedrel being hopeful, because I've also been down on LEC, and I'm watching since season 3. It's been pretty depressing watching the league I love lose its' shine
The fact that we never got the moments & memories videos anymore says a lot about the state of LEC content
My small wishlist for LEC would be:
Back to 2 splits
Real fearless draft
Best of 3 matches
My small wishlist for you:
Take that wig off your head.
Have been watching every split EU LCS and LEC since it came out, been playing since end of S1 and this split was the first season I didn't watch (only 1 match here and there)
same here
To some degree, You can tell that it's easier , Like the league is easier and the biggest showing of that is Mad Lions making it into play-offs when they had a 1-7 Record. Like Come on, You literally won 4 games TOTAL with Tie breakers and got sent to playoffs when Fnatic , BDS , SK and G2 Won 6-7 Games without tie breakers and got the same result. It further shows that B01's literally do not matter cause you can go last place and just get lucky and just need to win the tiebreakers....
Man so sad to hear the LEC doesn't have the backing anymore. I remember when they were doing actual music videos. Heck, remember the wellerman song? And the weekly music thing every week?
It was just such a strong region.
im vastly still against the Winter. Spring, Summer into season finals as a format. it kills so much of the hype you have for matchups and as rekkles explained that a player has like 27 games they play in the entire year when they‘re getting 10th.
Add back spring, spring p/os into summer and their p/o plus regional finals. you will get people back for hype matchups and give the players a chance of playing more games to develop the roster more and more
I didn't watch any regular season LEC this summer, for the first time in .. ever?
I just forgot, I never made a conscious choice to stop watching it, but I also never remembered or cared to put it on. I guess my subconscious just got bored of it after Spring.
Somehow I just don't care anymore.
My best guess might be that there's not enough legacy players left to draw me in? If Rekkles and Perkz were still playing, I'd probably watch, regardless of how washed up they are.
I'm also disinterested, despite being a regular watcher since season 2. At most it's second monitor content and I maybe glance over at it from time to time when it sounds like something's happening, but for a good decade it was always the focus of my attention. Getting older will have something to do with that, but it's definitely also feeling stagnant. I don't really care too much about legacy players, as long as the new ones coming in are also exciting. Some are. I like the new Mad Lions roster at least, but most of the more successful new LEC talent lately is Korean imports, which I find it hard to get excited about. I like seeing new local talent rise up and succeed.
Also, for me the EU region had always been the region of innovation, right back to when Moscow 5 revolutionised how pro play worked. We almost never had players that could keep up with LPL/LCK equivalents, but we could always beat them by playing unconventionally, rewriting the rule book again. Nowadays it's only really G2 doing that (and Mad Lions a bit), and everyone else is just doing the exact same cookie cutter comps with no innovation. Fearless draft would help this though.
Roadshows are such a big one. I know few things have hurt in NA as much as the decline in road shows.
If only people realized not from just this clip that dom is a level headed guy. He’s smart inside and out of the game ever time there’s controversy with dom he always backs it up his opinions.
Like with the double lift drama recently he got so much hate because some people just love double lift but love or hate him dom literally just said what he was saying was wrong and showed evidence throughout the history of lane swapping in league of legends.
Either way I’m glad ppl in the comments are seeing this side of him cuz their favorite content creator agrees with him but the inconsistency on how dom gets treated in this community is insane.
frfr
He mostly gets the hate because LCK fanboys have become so disgusting and they hate him because he dislikes T1 fans, plus live-streams LPL.
@@FitzgeraldStanburyWeissV why didn’t he get LEC co streaming and LCS way back when. There was Reddit threads about him years b4 he even co streamed he’s been hated for years
@@Satrim373 I'm just referring to now, tbh. I'm not entirely sure why he was hated back then, but I'd imagine it was probably due to the same reasons you listed. I only started watching Dom like 3-4 years ago tbf, so I'm not 100% sure. But yeah, I assume people had him wrong and probably thought he was toxic.
@@FitzgeraldStanburyWeissV Personally, I dislike him because it really looks like he's farming the hatewatch from LCK fans with some of his takes. To be fair, it's a really good tactic to get engagement.
I think LEC got hit the hardest by esports winter both on the org side and the league side. It feels like the LEC orgs don’t have so little money that they need to get their shit together or risk leaving the scene (like in LCS), but they also don’t have enough money to put real effort into their rosters, so most of them feel like they’re just trying to cruise through with what they have like Dom said. And when you have orgs that don’t care you get a lot of players who either don’t believe in the team they’re on or else feel like they can’t do anything on their current roster.
No way. NA got hit way harder or have you forgotten about the whole FTX drama? The European teams are much healthier orgs. The problem is RIOT pulling out resources. It's mind blowing how a single French B tier team can organize huge live events and at the same time RIOT axed one of only two live events (outside of the studio).
Wait do people actually think Dom is controversial?? Maybe 5 years ago I guess, but nowadays he’s one of the most level headed and unbiased voices out there. He’s considers opinions outside his own, especially those contrary to his, and is open to listening and viewing things holistically
the LEC songs imo are some of the most genius pieces of content ever released. The creativity and execution combined with fun are just flawless
LEC is genuinely getting boring, I've even seen G2 fans say they're bored of just winning without any real competition. Also the new format is just kind of lame, each team only playing each other once and only having a 3 week regular split gives no room for growth at all, most of the teams feel like they're just fed up and only playing because they have to, and players are constantly shuffled around in an attempt to make improvements to no avail. The last time the league was really exciting was 2020 when Fnatic and G2 were genuinely good teams that were neck and neck through the LEC and actually put up a good fight against the LPL/LCK teams.
when i started watching lec every day and every game lec was by far called best lolesports production content wise. Now we dont have anything except teams content
LCS is more entertaining than LEC. Unironically. LEC just sold it this year.
because Riot keeps pumping resources into LCS even while it's failing. Meanwhile, LEC keeps losing resources. Also, LCS leadership is willing to make changes to try and keep it interesting while LEC leadership seems like it's trying to keep things the way they have been since last year, even though it obviously isn't working.
@@vaqueroliquido7339 Bro WHAT. Riot is not fucking “pumping resources into LCS.” LCS got huge cuts and layoffs too, and on top of that they are deleting the entire region next year, losing 2 teams, losing a world’s spot, are you joking? That is the most delusional statement ive ever seen.
@@vaqueroliquido7339 way to be 110% wrong.
I mean IWD is right tho. The LEC in terms of gameplay quality is worse than ever, and the production is reduced to a skeleton crew. Not to mention the addition of the new french and spanish orgs have introduced another tier of annoying ass fans.
Wait are you telling me you dont enjoy people screaming during the game so that you cant even hear what casters are saying?
Yeah thats what kill it for me, I just turn on something else where ppl dont yell in my ear
Tbf that is more of an LEC studio being tiny ass than the fans. LCK finals fans were crazier and yet nobody was bothered by the shouts. Imo it just shows that lec is not adapted to entertainment yet
@@biim3051 Yeah thats fair, its on them to cancel out noise from the crowd. That could be another task for the casters :')
@@anterimac5196 It does feel like, if they did put some money they could isolate better their casters however it wouldn't solve the problem of the interviews, you would need more space for that. The big orgs fans have always been annoying (FNC/KC/MAD) but at the same time that's what makes us either root for them or for their oponents and by proxy, watch the content. You would be like "damn those KC fans, i hope KC loses, let's go [insert oponent]. And in the end those big fanbases would make the LEC feel more alive, but the format man that format is ass and the studio is trash.
Lmao the only reason lec had some spark of hype is because of the french and Spanish viewers this year
If you don't count them the league was even more boring
I used to watch lec, but then it just doesn’t hit anymore.
oh, wow... that point about the format change hit me hard, now that i think about it.. i haven't watched LEC at all since that happened and never put two and two together. When I want to go spend a few hours watching/catching up with the pro scene on the lol-esports website vods just to realize that there was a finals two weeks ago and last week was the start of a new split that somehow i didn't even know happened. then it's like okay, i don't realyl feel like watching any LEC games cuz I already missed an entire split somehow without knowing about any of the narratives are even relevant anymore since who knows if it was this split or last split, or w/e is even going on.. so yea, makes sense to me that ppl just don't care ever since that change because theres too much too fast and none of it really matters unless the finals before worlds, so just watch other regions until then that still have normal spring and summer split with breaks inbetween for the msi and worlds internationals
Fucking insane how dom and tyler1 became THE most well adjusted league content creators. Wtf
Im with Dom with this something is missing in LEC or LCS 2017-2020 is peak now it got so boring. Now i would rather watch LCK academy than LEC/LCS split.
Sounds like Europe is sick of being a one team region. NRG beat G2 but now TL in LCS looks way better than NRG ever did so it looks like LEC simply can't keep up right now.
Pretty sure Monte said the CFO was promoted to head of the company, and big surprise the former CFO wanted budget cuts.
I used to watch LEC every weekend almost every game now this last two splits I don't think I've seen one game
Imo. Lec went downhill since the days where we had sjokz, caedrel, quickshot, medi&vedi. Back then it just felt like a group of friends having fun, laughing, the content they were making also felt very thorough and thought out with a good balance of fun, cringe and fun. It stayed entertaining, it kept being fun no matter if you were watching PGL and so on. Players would also join in on it.
Now it just feel like they are trying to copy what they did before with new people and it is not working. The Players all say the same things as well. Yesterday there was a glimpse there with Wunder and Mikyx where they were riffing and laughing, getting to cast the first few minutes it was just low and chill. But LEC especially content wise has very much gone downhill.
😂😂😂 boohooo who cares
I've literally been so checked out of the LEC these last two splits.. I've actually gotten into the LPL, LCK, LJL and VCL this season alone and even not understanding the broadcasts I have been enjoying the gameplay.
I know this is going to sound blasphemous for a LEC fan but LCS is actually fun this split.
@@escorption6284 the new blood on the scene as made for some good story lines at least and drafts are creative
The LJL and VCS? Lol I don’t buy that.
@@FrogWalrus you’re welcome to? I don’t remember requiring randoms on the internet to agree with my opinion on what I find enjoyable. Thank you ^.^
Maybe this is just my personal opinion, but LEC kinda going down when Sjokz and Quickshot aren't the heads anymore.
I vaguely remember that both of them wanted the same direction where 2018-2020 was headed, I could be wrong.
Sjokz steps down as a full-time League host to pursue her own brand but she left knowing Quickshot was in control up to a point where the League didn't even try to defend him (yeah like he really means to offend people - it was clearly a joke PLUS they weren't even in Berlin when he did that joke). Riot could've just put a punishment for him like placing him on a managerial position rather than on-air talent up atleast the "joke" went away or when people start don't care and not take things too serious to be offended.
If anything I'm blaming Riot for this, there's a difference about firing artist and designer versus firing esport scene talents who runs, manages and promote the same League to every players.
Wait what was the "joke" that quick shot did? I thought he was pretty progressive type, was it something offensive?
@@AleXoEx0 At an international event, being an EDM enjoyer he made a joke about how one of the moves the DJs typically do looks like a Nazi salute, while doing the EDM move (it's not quite the same, he wasn't literally doing the salute). It wasn't done on broadcast, just in a phone video that I think Guldborg uploaded to Twitter, thinking it was harmless. Sadly it got Quickshot in trouble and he ended up quietly leaving the broadcast.
Quickshot was really progressive though, he always spoke to the audience in an inclusive way, saying things like "Welcome Bs, Gs, and NBs", long before nonbinary folk really became well known in the public consciousness. He also was clearly just a standup bloke, whenever they tried new casting talent, Quickshot would be their wingman as he's good at making people feel comfortable and prompted them with relevant questions so they could flex their knowledge. He was also excellent at being the hype man for major events.
I don't know how much LEC being based in Berlin affected the decision, but it's a real shame that just one private joke that wasn't remotely mean-spirited was enough to undo years of goodwill. I believe Nazi iconography is illegal in Germany (and presumably also the salute) so maybe it was serious enough there to warrant it? I still suspect that LEC's broadcast team just overcorrected though. People are absolutely terrified of backlash on Twitter.
as someone who got into watching League Proplay this year (specifically domestic leagues instead of just internationals), its kinda saddens me seeing LEC being at this bad of a spot. Genuinely looked like a fall from grace over the last few years.
Need some tournament diversity too.
Like every two years give us a Battle Of The Atlantic against the LCS and in the other years give us a European Cup where the European countries play each other.
And actually take them seriously.
I just hate that they fired so many people. Negativity around a product can harm everyones long term passion and kill a region. Riot could definitely afford to put money into LEC and make the content, but they didn't think it was worth it. Theyll pay the price in 5 years when LEC is a dead product.
I don't know if I want to hope that they're going to be ESL produced soon. I hate the inevitable Saudi takeover but rn that seems the most realistic way to get money back into hyping LEC
It’s just a different game than it was even 2 years ago. At this point I don’t think there’s anything that can be done. Games suck to watch, and suck to play. There’s no more storylines or any real reason to tune in beyond, “I like the [color here] team.” Worlds is the only thing worth watching anymore, and that doesn’t bode well for Pro League’s future.
I think the primary issue is that half the league are atrocious. Watching the bottom half of LEC now feels like watching the bottom LCS teams in recent years. KC, MDK, RGE, GX, VIT are all super hard to watch.
The roadshow point is also so true. Watching 'finals' in the same arena with a 200 person crowd is extremely underwhelming.
Without co-streams such as Caedrel's and Dom's I wouldn't event watch LEC.
To me, this format of splits also is good part of the problem: bo1 were good in the double round robin, going against every team at least 2 times. Gave the teams especially at the bottom at least a chance to improve (remember the schalke miracle run). Bo3 are in my opinion the best way to improve each team, they take longer but lck and lpl demonstrate that it is beneficial. This mid way, which isn't meat nor fish...eeh, it's a mess of it's own. Only things truly obvious are G2 trolling then dominating and MDK arriving at playoff by the skin of their theeth and then do an exploit. It is maybe the fourth time i see them sucking all split and then arriving at playoff and do better than any other game in the last 2 split. Every.single.time.
We miss quickshot and the music video skits
Just look at the championshippoint standing.
We can safely say G2 FNC BDS an SK will be top 4 and top 3 qualifies for season finals.
Mad got enough points already too. So the only question is 6th place which is likely will be Heretics looking at current points.
Even thought we got shit ton of games left GX and KC have to make top 3 to qualify.
So why the hell would I watch a the rest of summer when top 6 is most likely won't change for season finals.
I really hope the format changes with that extra international tournament with at least a single round Bo3 into top6 playoffs or something, because since last year summer I feel less and less energy to watch LEC. I am watching it since 2014 when I have time and now I am slowly reaching the point when I check when G2 is playing turn on the stream for it than turn it off.
People forget that rn it’s the euros too. And starting both tournaments the split and the euros at the same time in June just makes it impossible to watch both. If it wasn’t for the euros I probably would have watched LEC.
Fearless draft is the one thing I want to see in all the regions. I enjoy watching LEC but it is getting stale but the same goes for LPL,LCK and LCS
I am from NA & I love watching LEC + other Regions like LPL, LCK, and VCS.
Caedral really might have a point about the issue stemming from a lack of caster freedom and budgets.
The year with the rap content was by far one of my favorite seasons of LEC. I remember enjoying it more than every other international League at the time.
I have religiously gotten up to watch LEC as an Australian for 3 years now. This means getting up at 1am and then sleeping again at like 5.
This year has been mind numbingly boring. Literally nobody looks like they care. The casters and broadcasters that were once interesting now are so nice and fluffy to everyone it's boring as shit. Just say the players are bad and not doing good.
Also. How many more quizzes does Sjokz need to run between games, where the people playing don't even understand the format.
I understand the budget is rough and resources are low. But even the gameplay is average. Change to Bo3 or something. Idk. Anything needs to change. I loved watching G2 and even a lot of the other players. Now it's not worth the effort
LEC and LCS suffer from the same problem, both regions are maximizing profits by using old popular players to sell merch and make money, they gave up on winning trophies, having a good worlds run, etc. instead of recruiting up and coming talent that are their prime, they run 28 year old players, this is not okey. Look at LPL and LCK best players in recent years they are all young players with the exception of greats like faker who are consistent every year. Do you know how many superstar players T1 has produced? You wouldn't really know because the main roster stays the same for the most part, but majority of teams in the LCK have players that have been to the T1 academy, thats insane, the player who won worlds in EDG Scout was an academy T1 player. T1 Academy is the best league academy in the world shown by their amazing results but every team is nurturing talent, something that LCS and LEC are missing, they gave up. There needs to be a change in leadership in all of these teams, get the nepo babies out and put real quality coaches in charge, get some LCK/LPL coaches get some training programs, put qualified people in positions of power, etc.
they need to reduce to 8 teams and add bo3 fearless to have a chance of retaining viewership. I've watched almost every game for the past 4 years but haven't found the willpower to watch more than 2 games this split.
BO3 fearless would be so awesome, it would make the games much more exciting to watch. I totally agree with you.
Bro I watrched 98% of games sicnce season fucking TWO. But this shit I cant do it. Its so bad. Idiotic MAD KC fans shouting, format absolute dogshit, champion variety nonexistent. Every team outside G2 has no hands or macro sence... so bad
Fearless draft in eu, man i would like to see it but i feel like lot of those players have one good pick but cant play situationall picks, so seing fearless in eu would be like organised bronze soloQ lvl of performance ( ofc excluding teams that put in effort to play their best on most of the picks their team can need), i feel like long run it would be great mirror for level of performance in eu and it could help us progress when players would fear embarrasing theseles on stage but short run it would be clown fiesta xddd
I havent watched LEC at all in the past few months and i dont even know why tbh. The quality of the production definitely dropped off and i do think maybe it was just fatigue. I didnt even consciously make a decision to stop, i just realized it now after watching this video lol
been watching lec since the first year and i still really enjoy the league :( only thing i dislike is the lack of roadshows because europe is the perfect place for roadshows
The rivalry analogy is a perfect example of where the LEC is at. And it's why the LCK does it so much better. We could see T1 v GenG another 100 times and it'd be a hype finals almost every time, however the LEC, whether its due to zero hype or just lackluster performances, it's just another "eh whoever wins, wins" type of series. LCK builds up storylines, hype, consistently good performances etc, the LEC simply doesn't do any of that.
8:58 A-men, brother! You are so right, I can't express how much truth is in this! They already lost Quickshot and a few others.
I'd say G2 success has been one of the biggest problems for LEC. The fact that G2 and all other team feel like they are a thousand miles apart really demotivates enjoyment and fans. Why get hyped about your team achieving 1st when you know that there's a boogeyman at the top.
And more power to G2 for demostrating their prowess and skill. But, still, this speaks to the weakness of the league as a whole.
When I started watching LEC around 2020 I was immediately hooked. The fun or sometimes goofy games were fun to watch and the production made it so much better. Every pro player had a chance to let their personality shine with content which made me atleast care about them a lot more. This year though I can't help but feel LEC has lost the plot. The casters try their best but they can't do all of it. Players don't get to express themselves which in turn makes people care about the players less. LEC is losing the personality at an alarming rate.
Are ppl taking into consideration that it literally has 3 (4 if you cound "season final playoffs" before worlds ) split format every year? So it literally requires a LOT more work than the other regions do, and riot, the way i view it, hasnt rly given them the materials to perform all that work that is needed (literally firing Quickshot took a HUGE toll on the league and it SHOWS and also Caedrel leaving to become a streamer, also dagda and the guy that got quickshot fired are just disgusting imo) . Also half the teams being terrible is not only LEC case, it literally is the case in every single region lol, literally every worlds has the same exact teams, maybe some new LPL or LCK teams (which btw have the same players inside them but with a different branding). LEC just had, as caedrel said, all the spotlight cause it was the most entertaining league for so long, so it's kind of normal for it to recieve the most hate as well
I used to be really into lec but 2019/2020 was literally when it felt like it started to crumble
It feels like LEC teams just arent trying to get better anymore. The teams at the bottom don't want to put in the effort/resources to really compete, and the teams at the top are scared to make changes because they worry that if they do then they'll make the team worse. The LCS is in a pretty similar situation, but unlike the LEC, the LCS organisers are actually listening to fans and doing something about it, whereas it feels like the LEC organisers have just stopped caring.
If people still deny g2 is bribing everyone in LEC from organizations to casters than you really are blind because they arent even trying to hide anymore
I used to love watching lec, but now all my favorite teams collapsed and it's just a g2 region at this point. I couldn't care less for other teams, just gonna root for g2 at worlds and maybe watch their finals of lec, that's it.
I'm not kidding you when I say I watched every LEC matches (since 2016 when it's still EULCS) up until summer & season final last year (2023), but I find it hard to watch it this year. I agree with you both, it kinda feel pointless to follow LEC bc of all the major changes (since the lay offs i think). Coupled with team's quality and performances at international tournaments. It just breaks my heart because I've seen how the peak looked like
Bring quickshot back. He could help out so much, even behind the scenes
We had it good for many years but the lack of player personality is bad considering how good the European challenger league is we produce good players on the regular they are just not given the chance to build a fan base and nobody cares. Add the facts that the format change which appeared good at the time has caused more harm than good and players have lost the will to try and compete with LCK and LPL which i feel is bad considering we defiantly can compete if effort was put in but everything just feels undercooked atm.
Lastly i personally think how the teams/league and fans have treated our legends players like Perkz, Rekkles, Hyli, Wunder, Yankos and a few others like Nemesis and Bwipo has not helped. These are players with huge fanbases taken teams very deep into international tournaments and won many splits and MVPs these players should be on competitive teams and give time to build. Form is temporary but class is permanent however because they had one bad split or year they are looked down upon the last 2 years have been a disaster.
Imo LEC really needs to do 3 things to bring back the disenchanted viewers
1. Format ( this Bo1 in Studio BS has gone long enough , it's bad for teams , bad for viewers and bad for content team and casters )
2. Funding ( it's obvious the org is running on pennies and dimes , and that's fine for a new game or indie game tournament but when aesthetic doesn't match the prestige , it really turns viewers off )
3. BRING QUICKSHOT BACK ( it can be a coincidence that budget cuts happened at the same time as Quickshot firing , but i really think anybody watching LEC can agree that quality dropped drastically since his exit , it's not a one man job , but sometimes the presence of one man can really elevate the experience of collective and Quickshot for sure was that one man . i really don't think there is any possible community backlash if they bring him back , and you can see how much love he has for the game and casting in his YT videos and how much he misses it , it's a win win in my opinion , and i really don't think anyone disagrees , if you do , plz tell me why )
I said this to my brother yesterday: "How come no pro have mentioned that they spend probably at the least, 84 hours per week (minimum) grinding and practicing for 30 to 40 mins maximum on stage." Players spent 31 days in total (minimum) for 4.5 hours on stage (if the games last 30 minutes) in the LEC for summer split. How does it equal worth?
This doesn't even relate to Asia or Bo3 or anything like that. These leagues should've moved to BO3 or ATLEAST just 2 games back to back, a long time ago regardless of viewership because how can a player ever justify that they spent their time well in any league where everything depends on 40 mins at best. Does it really make sense? There's no way teams were identifying all of a players/teams issues within 4.5 hours in total. Yeah there's scrims and all that but what happens on-stage will always be different than in practice.
I won't scream nepotism or anything like that but with all the money these orgs spend and all the time these people put into LEC, no way does it justify 1.3 hours in a week.
I’ve been following the League scene since early Season 2 and have always been a fan of all League content, but IWD is correct. It seems like the LEC made a smart move back in the day by franchising the entire ecosystem. (Imagine leaving the LEC at the perfect time, like Schalke LOL, banking €18 million to save the club - anyways.) I also believe that the LEC needs to make some changes; they either need to go big or go home. They’re placing a massive burden on clubs, which have to maintain financial pressure without receiving enough in return. Viewership is declining, brands aren’t allocating marketing budgets, and while the quality of games remains high, they’ve become super repetitive. So, where do we go from here? What are the solutions?
For me, LEC is missing the seriousness. Like having fun and all is important, but at the end of the day if you watch LPL or LCK, they are dead serious with their performances. LEC teams apart from G2 maybe, don't really feel serious at all. Like yeah sure we play, we lose, who cares..go again next. It feels too casual at times for me! It almost feels like the effort is missing where teams work hard to perform domestically and internationally. The eagerness to improve seems to be gone and its the same old over and over!
it's called performing good enough to get the paycheck and not getting kicked out.
yeah i think this is the main reason, at some point a certain player will hit his peak and loses his competitiveness it happens on some if not most players like me, back when i started playing LoL i was really into it i wanna get good i wanna main champions but when i felt that ive reached my peak not really peak but i got stuck at plat 2 XD. i said to my self okay i think thats it ive been playing lol for a long time now then it hits me, like i dont care anymore if i lose i doesnt hurt or piss me anymore. im not sure but i have other reasons as well
1. i want to play other games (this was the time fortnite was on the rise)
2. i got older XD (maybe the reason my competitiveness in gaming banished)
3. plat 2 was the sweet spot for me u can still pick non meta champs in short i can still enjoy playing my fave champs not like in higher ranks were they will doomed u for picking non meta champs and the trashtalk was toxic sure i understand but at that time thats not the reason i play LoL i want to have some fun. (losing my competitiveness)
last point is some players doesnt have that hunger like lets say the LPL or LCK players or the non major regions have. correct me if im wrong but i feel like for LPL and LCK players winning a championship is more valuable than their salary and their rivalry is still intact to this day.
Oh now I wonder if LEC gonna change the format and follow Americas system of combining franchises with the qualifiers or something
Next year gonna be interesting to see whether every regions (except Americas that already laid out their plans in detail and APac that did the same albeit more vague) gonna make changes of their regional systems
🤔🤔🤔
And we love that you still being hopeful shows and you do act like a member of the community - I'll keep watching, but do agree that the production has decreased - the players in interviews are the ones carrying
NA person human here. As cringe and stupid as all the shit talk got between regions, LEC was always SO much better to watch than LC. Even in the golden days of TSM, LEC was absolute BIS. There are a dozen things that if any of us talked about we would be targeted so we can't talk about it and that is truly sad. Alas, LEC made horrible, horrible decisions for a long time and the teams are so saints either. Not even close. Last 2 splits were the first time in my life I said, "LEC truly isn't worth my time anymore. See you at the internationals." It is as liberating as it is depressing to leave the LEC. If Caed and Dom could open the doors and be quite honest, they would unload over at least 100 issues in the last 5 years that devasted the LEC, our perception of it, the fun of it, the passion of it. The LEC is absolutely gone.
I'm sorry but the fact that someone as toxic as IWD leaves LEC just makes me happy. Won't be missed. And weird how you find LEC boring yet some costreams have like 100k people watching, which means it is not.
Maybe is that his friends are no more there. Maybe is that people who he doesnt like has done something good. Idk. Idc. Anyway, bye and close the door.
Dom was one of the reasons LCS died , he spreads negativity and just pure toxic.
How its all turned upside down, EU used to absolutely pump out insane content for the league with NA being meme central. Here we are with NA consistantly putting out insane content besides the matchups and EU not only not having banger content the one thing youre left with the matches themselves are far too often plain sh*t.
I might be crazy but i dont care about skits or non game content
Its just games arent fun to watch
They need to bring Fearless Draft. Everyone plays the same. Fearless draft including all the bans of every run. Make teams come up with different drafts on Bo3.
There is no way in hell ur telling me that lcs is better than lec thats just rediculous
As far as a viewer experience it is. I've been a huge LEC fan the last few years and an active LCS hater, but it feels like this split, LCS has recovered some sense of personality and fun, while the LEC has become hollow and pitiful.
I completely understand your point, but I do think the layoffs from Riot's side make a lot of sense. For the LPL and LCK, live views and co-streams have made Western viewers more invested in the league because some of their favorite personalities were there to make it interesting. However, for the LCS and LEC, it had the opposite effect. People preferred watching you or "the sack" commentate on the games rather than a high-production cast, which obviously costs a lot of money.
So, it makes sense for Riot to see this and decide to reduce the amount of money they spend on production. They might have used a similar argument to reduce the number of road shows. But I do agree that this has made it a lot less hype, and I also don't like the three-split format.
When costreamers have more views than the official casts that are supposed to have million of dollars invested into production and segments... That tells a story.
next year will definitely be different, but lcs has had all these changes because they NEEDED them lec is still getting good viewers so riot may not be incentivized to change so much
The thing i also dislike about the 3 split format is that you don't really have any way to come back. Week 3 the results are pretty much set in stone. Something like the Schalke miracle run cannot happen now
We used to have so much good content from the LEC like the skits and matches felt like they were better quality. For me the LEC died when Quickshot left.
As a destiny 2 player, gaming is f?cked in 2024.
God, please, fearless draft would get me to watch every game I possibly could
“I’m gonna try not to be too tilted”
> quits LEC
BO1 is the worst format when it comes to a regional League… for MSI or Worlds, it’s fine, for a regional League, it’s shite.
BO3 at least allows the team on the red side to choose the blue side if they lose, BO1 is just like diarrhea. It’s quick and shitty.
As someone who has watched LCK since season 3 Bo1s are so bad, and they have only seemed worse and worse as time has gone on. While there's definitely more than one thing wrong with the LEC, any league still running Bo1s is immediately among the worst IMO. It feels like it takes so much skill out of the game, the drafts become so bad. I used to think Bo1s would make the drafts more interesting but the opposite is true, no one risks any picks because if the game goes badly they lose the all-in. At best, shitty teams coinflip niche picks against the teams they have no chance against, and they might win the "series" because of it. NA and EU both suck eggs and I can't help but feel a huge part of that is/was the Bo1 format. That shit has got to go.
G2 carried the region for so long. They set the standard for the level they had to play at, and all of their drafts and shenanigans were so fun to watch. Its just not the same anymore.
There is too many splits. it should have just stayed 2 splits. Spring, Winter. Then fill the summer with international tourneys. Even small ones bring in decent viewership. They need to go back and scale back like lcs did and bring it back to the days like 2019, or 2015.