Look at Hawaiian history. We've lost our Hawaiian kingdom, our language was outlawed back in the day, even hula was forbidden in the name of Christianity. What else do we have left? Western style malls in Honolulu? Tourists breaking down the reefs of Hanauma bay? Hawaiian food? The US has taken everything else. Leave us our land and our people. Leave us in peace. Do not mistake our Aloha as weakness. We will not back down. Aloha 'aina means love for your land, and you can bet that every Hawaiian feels Aloha 'aina in their heart.
Language and Hula are still alive today. Trust me, only a few (native or local) are actually interested in learning them. Everybody likes malls, dont deny it. I can argue that locals and natives do more damage not just to beaches, but other locations as well. Something tells me you like americanzed hawaiian food, more than ancient-style hawaiian food. What would we do with said 600 acres of land? How would we live if the Hawaiian kingdom was in effect? You see the problem with the protesters view. Different tangents of arguments but nothing related tot TMT specifically.
@@calmdownkid Hula's alive. You can't deny outlawing hula was a gross offense. Language is barely surviving. People only speak it daily in Ni'ihau. If the US didn't outlaw Hawaiian it'd still be widespread and not a dying language.
@Michael VR When did i say anything against diversity? When did i say black white or Asian Hawaiians are bad? If you're gonna argue with me, make sure you're arguing something against i've actually said.
@@justiniantbh My Hawaian history is rusty, so i'll take your word that those things absolutely happened. Still, a bad history doesn't mean a bright future can happen for everyone, which in the form of TMT, i've never heard one negative effect or negative prediction that makes sense. Literally, only benefits and the negative effects have already been looked at.
TMT has had a 15 year process to build there, from engineering to cultural and local surveys as well as local voting. I wouldn't call it trespassing, especially at this stage. My definition of trespassing. Someone cutting fenceline to go onto another's personal property to hunt and do damage and call it cultural practice.
Hawaii needs sustainability. Our children need to learn stewardship. All people need to recognize their inherent responsibility to this honua. The further desecration of our natural resources is not what our community needs
Cant we build this telescope at the same time try and help the natural resources?? Is there anyway to compromise? Any way we could help the local communities first then build the telescope second?
@@edwardhalmarack7122 - They do have 13 other telescopes on the mountain amd they were going to decommission 3 of them. So why cant they build it at any of the other three locations
You look down from Mauna Kea in which a mighty , magical forest of birds , trees, medicine and food is completely gone. Bulldozers chained together dragged across the land. Their sacred temple as it were. Not just taken but destroyed. You don't have to be Hawaiian to be horrified.. So much so it changed the weather. The rivers stopped flowing . The birds stopped singing. It is a" Oh my God " "What did they do?" They left nothing. Yes that is you Parker Ranch....Eight acres to sustain one cow. You heartless fools.
And all the sandalwood trees that once laced the slopes of Kohala...even though it was given permission from the Alli at the time ...they had no idea what the ramifications of the white man's actions and intentions would be. . I am vacation but in my heart I stand for all indigenous people, I especially love Hawaii and spent 25 years loving its beauty, it's culture, it's people, it's legends. My heart aches to be there again,but I am deeply saddened to see what it's becoming through the migration of many people who don't hold the sacred Heart space of true Hawaii. Aloha Aina!
Brian Smith Parker Ranch was given Kamehameha I’s full blessing. And that’s not the only BS you’re spinning. Precolonial Hawaiians are responsible for several extinctions. The wild pigs brought by Tahitians wiped out many. Hawaiians also hunted several bird species to extinction for nothing more than their feathers. The Tahitians are also responsible for the only intentional genocide in Hawaii’s history against the true first peoples, who were the Marquesans. None of this excuses what followed colonialism but for you to gloss over the reality is not wise and will be used to discredit you. And neither one of us wants that.
Stefan Pigford it’s vastly more complicated than that. And it was white Americans that stole Hawaii via the forced annexation. That story is also complicated and the two world wars would have gone very differently (WWII in particular) had the US not been the dominant naval force in the Pacific. Had Imperial Japan, Germany, Spain (highly likely), Italy, or any of the Axis allies been the ones to control the Pacific the world would be very different. And likely not in a good way.
@@calmdownkid Mauna Kea is sacred to Native Hawaiians. Putting another telescope atop the most sacred mountain IS an expense to the native culture of Hawai'i.
@@jordikeoni How is it an "expense" to the native culture of hawaii? What if I told you, TMT will have no effect on native culture, and that the culture will still be there after it's built?
Yeah no, science is more important than religion. It doesn't matter if it is a """"pure"""" indigenous religion, all religion is bullshit, and it shouldn't be allowed to interfere with science and progress.
Most Hawaiians aren't even a part of their old religion. And building a telescope won't destroy their way of life, which is highly Westernized to begin with.
I didn’t know that Hawaii and Australia are connected through Captain Cook. Australia is also currently going through a national debate about the sacred land of Uluru. It’s a sacred place to the Aboriginal people and yet tourists still want to climb and mistreat the area.
@@djstrongarmgmail they are both sacred places for indigenous people, both being desecrated by outsiders. It doesn’t matter the means of the desecration.
@@coasterblocks3420 "desecration" 😆 You clown. Over half the people involved in the telescope and scientific research on the telescope are brown skinned, native Hawaiians. Hawaii was and has always been a melting pot for ALL peoples of Earth. You think ancient Hawaiians just sprung up out of the ground, and didn't come from Tahiti...raping and pillaging their way through the pacific ocean? Ok xenophobe. Do some actual research before you spout off and parrot idiotic nonsense and antiscience rhetoric.
As a frequent visitor who is learning the history of Hawaii, I am appalled and ashamed of the greed and unquestionable illegal actions of the US in the takeover of Hawaii. These sacred islands are the home and rightful possessions of the Hawaiin people, this TMT decision, and ALL other decisions about the future of Hawaii, should be decided by Hawaiians.
The Hawaiian Kingdom was a multiethnic and multinational country. It was constructed with the great help of Westerners. Hawaiian Kings intentionally blended western religious, education, political, economic and military systems with polynesian traditions. The Hawaiian Kingdom was overthrown by a coup of wealthy and powerful haole who were citizens, royal subjects, community members, tax payers and voters with their own ohana, not the United States. The Queen was overthrown by a homegrown revolution, which was unfortunate. If you want to see a U.S. military invasion and occupation, then look at Haiti in 1915. Nobody has exclusive control of the land based on ethnicity. Hawai'i is a pluralistic community and a democracy. Everyone's voice matters. Polls show that a majority of the state population favor TMT and it even enjoyed solid support from the kanaka for a long time.
@@sunnysied713 Why do you think people actually want to hear your 'I'm white, love science, therefore I can take your land"? They view you as an idiot.
@@mikeNM08 Auwe, so everybody's voice doesn't matter? Is Hawai'i supposed to be ruled by one ethnic, religious group? Do you want the land to be controlled by genealogy? Sorry, no can do, boss. We done with the mo'i, ali'i, konohiki and kahuna. We gotta put more mileage between ourselves and the past. The feudal caste system and kapu needs to stay in the rear view mirror - preferably with a rising fireball. Lol. Everyone's gotta voice. The TMT is a kanaka, local, state, national and international issue. Obviously, everyone's voice matters.
Bc it is like looking at nature: the ocean waves and swells; the dawning over the mountain summits; waterfalls; wind caressing the laua’e (fern) plants; beautiful birds frolicking; a child smile that is only for you. It touches inside. Words need not be uttered to describe the aforementioned as it is narrated through dance. Watching it touches inside. Nahenahe 🌺
This is about drawing a line and stopping the abuse. Every ounce of this state is being taken advantage including the people. It is a shame that science is being blocked and caught in the middle of this. This is a nation rehabilitating and rebuilding. Ua Mau ke Ea o ka ʻĀina i ka Pono
This is about racist, xenophobic cowards, taking aim at the one venue they know they won't be removed at gunpoint...science. Their attack may not be against science...but they're still using the scientific community to make their point. A misguided, delusional, incorrect stance on history, but that's their point. You don't see these cowards protesting any new resorts or hotels. You dont see these fools volunteer to protect the heiaus and parks. Why? Because only cowards bring the fight to a bunch of science nerds. Way to show the world that brave Kamehameha spirit.
@@Sumo-san Within "fairy tales" there are truths. And if you listened to the video what little clip there was pertaining to how it all began you could hear what it is they in fact did know!
What's the point of your statement? That's like saying a the sentinelese dont need electricity. It's just ambiguous. Were not in ancient hawaii and as a local, I can assure you 99.99% of natives cant live like ancient hawaii or let alone live off the grid. Theres room for tmt in this era. For use by locals, scientists, economic development, jobs, and so on
Mauna Kea is also a critical part of the ceded lands trust that the State of Hawaiʻi must protect and preserve for future generations, pursuant to its kuleana as a trustee. Despite four state audits and generations of Native Hawaiians expressing concern about the threats to Mauna Kea, the state and the University of Hawaiʻi have continuously neglected their legal duties to adequately manage the mountain. Instead, they have prioritized astronomical development at the expense of properly caring for Mauna Kea’s natural and cultural resources. As a result, the state and UH have failed as trustees and stewards of this beloved and sacred place. Even the governor and the university president have both publicly admitted to failing to meet their management responsibilities. OHA has long advocated for improved stewardship of the mauna and beginning in 2015 engaged the state and UH in a nearly two-year mediated process to resolve the mismanagement of Mauna Kea. Ultimately, this effort was not successful. Left with no other recourse, OHA filed a lawsuit in 2017 to advocate on behalf of the Native Hawaiian people to hold the state and UH accountable for its longstanding and well-documented mismanagement of Mauna Kea. Among other things, OHA’s complaint requests the court to order the state fulfill its trust obligations relating to Mauna Kea and to terminate UH’s general lease for the mountain for breach of the lease’s terms. This is not about any one telescope. This lawsuit is about addressing the state and the university failing to manage the entire mountain for nearly half a century. Don't forget, Mauna Kea was put into trust for the Native Hawaiians when Hawaii was taken by the United States!
The TMT EIS states the following: "The operation of the Project, in accordance with the CMP and other applicable rules, regulations, and requirements, will not result in a significant adverse impact." The Supreme Court of Hawaii ruled that "(1) the TMT will not cause substantial adverse impact to existing plants, aquatic life and wildlife, cultural, historic, and archaeological sites, minerals, recreational sites, geologic sites, scenic areas, ecologically significant areas, and watersheds, (2) mitigation measures of restoring the abandoned Poliʻahu Road and decommissioning five telescopes will be adopted, and (3) other measures to lessen the impacts of the TMT will be adopted... the TMT will not have a substantial adverse impact to existing natural resources within the surrounding area, community, or region" The Supreme Court of Hawaii affirmed the Conservation District Use Permit for TMT. They agreed with BLNR's analysis that the observatory will not have a substantial adverse impact to the environment, ecology and community. Previous state audits reported a _cumulative_ negative impact for maunakea management. However, there weren't any major jaw-dropping, blockbuster, show-stopping infractions/events that caused great environmental and ecological damage. They were all _minor._ Collectively, there were a lot of things to fix. Those scopes weren't environmental disasters, like the protesters falsely claim.
The Mauna Kea Management Plan has addressed and mitigated many of the action items reported in earlier state audits from a regulation, process and operation perspective. Follow-up state audits have shown that Mauna Kea Management has acted in good faith, implemented many corrective actions and greatly improved their management. TMT is the first telescope that is being implemented with the new set of rules and it's a model go-forward plan for future telescope. The _Follow-Up Audit of the Management of Mauna Kea and the Mauna Kea Science Reserve (14-07) states, "we found that UH and DLNR have made progress on implementing many of our previous major recommendations but that some issues remain unresolved." This audit generated 8 recommendations for improvement. The _Follow-Up on Recommendations from Report No. 14-07, Follow-Up Audit of the Management of Mauna Kea and the Mauna Kea Science Reserve (17-06)_ states, "We found that UH and DLNR have partially implemented four of the recommendations. Three recommendations remain open, and one is inapplicable at this time." All the recommendations aren't equally important. Some are more so than others. There were 8 recommendations dealing with administrative rules (1 item), tour operators (2 items), _action items against the Comprehensive Management Plan🚩_ (1 item), lease/sub-leases (3 items) and observatory permit templates (1 item). The most important recommendation was Recommendation #4. Recommended 4 dealt with actions for the Mauna Kea Comprehensive Management Plan. The University of Hawaii implemented *20 of the 25* total CMP management actions. It was partially implemented and *80% complete.*🌟🌟🌟🌟⭐ Like I said, follow-up state audits were conducted and confirmed strong improvement in maunakea management. It shows accountability, responsibility and compliance. That's great progress!
"the meeting point between those two realms" , really blew my mind. Everything about the people and THEIR land, is so spiritual and beautiful. And "intense darkness, penetrating & fathomless" in the oral history of the beginning......Love that.
Was just on the Big Island recently. Beautiful people. Absolute shame what has happened and is continuing to happen to their culture. Textbook protest. I hope they finally get the respect they deserve.
Darren Lesinski you can thank the asshole of a governor for that it’s Hawaii’s fault for voting that dumb shit into office he is no leader of our state just out looking to fill his bank account!
You think that illegally blocking a telescope should earn respect? What if someone would not let you into your own house (and the police did nothing) would that make you respect them?
Well, this isn't the first time a land was fucked over. Steamboat, Colorado is a tourist town, but recently it gained a lot of more popularity and major changes happened. When I lived there in the summer and the winter it would be nice and peaceful, not too overcrowded, but last winter it was beyond crowded and they added this weird slide on the mountain, so now you have a big tourist thing in the middle of the bottom of the mountain that goes up it and it just takes away the natural beauty. I love Steamboat, Colorado, but don't take away the natural beauty of nature.
The fact that a lot of people don't believe in global warming but yet they continue to seek and destroy the purity of the lands, I saw a sign once that said "Our childrens future over profit" this is an example. I wasn't aware that they already have did she say "13 telescopes" how many more do they really need, who or what are they trying to find !! Wow it's amazing how we as humans have no respect of others beliefs & heritage this truly brakes my heart 💔and soul. Hawaii is such a beautiful and spiritual place, it's one of the last (and really👂hearing the Hawaiians speak & sing🎶the language is so pretty and soothing) I respect what they are doing and wish that I could be there along side them and support to protect the lands. Love and blessings from Chicago!
It’s so important to go back and keep the stories,beliefs,foods and customs especially the old way of building the houses, teach the next generations so they can survive.
Hawaii cannot be COLLATERAL DAMAGE....for rich and greedy people.....who are buying up these islands for their own purposes..God Bless the Hawaiian people and Hawaii...
We the people voted our city counsel our mayor our governor who all had Hawaiian bloodline and had big say in these project like overdeveloped our precious ag lands for housing when there is no more room more n more immigrants coming for jobs n housing no point fingaz when our own people is selling out das da real deal collateral damage shit our own people has slot to do with all this Mayham we build n build all over our sacred land not only on da mauna if it's gonna affect there pocket book no protest no flag waiving no why cause we all gota work they go up da mauna to protest then go back down the mauna to develope choke sacred lands ahhh Hollywood coyotes all look good on tv
Give this message to those how work at the telescopes , to those who want the TMT , and those who want to desacralise more sacred land ... This land is not yours, you have no right to take it. It is sacred, let the native people keep their land. Go somewhere else with all those telescopes , stop taking what is not yours .
@@calmdownkid Then they should be the first to refuse to continue harming the land . Yes the job probably pays well, but being respectful towards the land and their culture , themselves, seems more important .
@@louverousse9023 1) They're not harming the land as TMT as an entirety has limited and minimal effects on the environment. No wells, piping to direct waste to a treatment plan, etc. You can look up the rest yourself. 2) 'respectful to the land' - see above 3) 'respectful to the culture' - TMT site is not built on any temple and no evidence found in it's immediate surroundings. 4) 'respectful to themselves' - Working a labor-type day to day to put food on the able, to me, is the ultimate form of self-respect. giving up your leisures to do something repetitive. If you look at it as a case-by-case individual perspective, the people protesting either fit into the following categories. Doing it for publicity, doing it to collect benefits or get paid off, currently collecting benefits such as welfare; all of which dont fit into my definition of self-respect. Very few protesting are real activists who participate regularly in development hearings.
@@calmdownkid it is like a group of people decide that your backyard is the coveted space to build something. Don't you think you have a say? So if you say yes that is on you. If you say no! That should be good enough. Go somewhere else...
@@doreengordon1475 you're comparing personal property to 5% of an entire mountain dedicated to educational use. The rest is for cultural use. Both are incomparable Now, on a personal level. If they decide my backyard is best location for TMT, and they pay me the 1mil/year rent, I'd buy 4 different properties a year. Again, I dont see the point you're trying to make.
You all need to see Lanakila putting a halt to the groundbreaking ceremony back in 2014. "You wanna look up into the Sky?? You cant even take care of this place!!"
Oh you mean that aggro clown who is both a charlatan and a fraud? That same guy who didn't bother to vote? Got it. Yeah, that WAS sad to see. It always pains me to see people who didn't bother to educate themselves whine and cry about things they don't understand...
@@djstrongarmgmail Trust me he understands WAY more than you I know for a fact. Where do you get your info from? Just bullshit flying out your ass it seems like.
@@ikaikaxkeahi Trust an uneducated, ignorant, dishonest, racist, welfare sucking, roach? Why would anyone in their right mind with an education do such a thing? My information? Oh, you know,...here and there. Born on the Islands, thankfully raised and educated somewhere else NOT the islands. I went to college. Oh, and I own property on two islands, so I've spent over 48 years there watching, and learning what a horrible step backwards angry, out of control, frauds like that punk bitch are to the future of the Islands. What would I know,...RIGHT!?
That’s why they look to the sky, they’ve burned down every other plan our creators had for its earthlings...”I’m definitely suffering PTSD from the illegal occupation of the USA”. Stay strong Sistah!!!
I support the scientists. These are the typical examples of the faith vs. science. It happened in the past in Europe, Asia, and it’s happening now. It is more important to find out if we are alone in this planet than feelings of a handful number of people.
bro, you did not educate yourself before wrighting thing. it isn't religion vs science. it's culture vs desecration. we support what the telescope can do, but not how it would be built. looking at a religious view though (not really religious but simply kapu) the top of the mountain is seen as wao akua. or the realm of god. only the high chiefs and priest could enter that part of the moutain. the mountain itself is home to life that can be found no where else in the world, no where else in hawai'i and no where else on the big island. EVERY TELESCOPE HAS BEEN SAID to be the last one...and now they want a bigger one. 60 yeeears they have done this. there was also a mercury spill which had to be cleaned up as well as 13 tons of trash cleaned up by a native hawaiian group (I forgot which one) and the serria club. the bones of our chiefs...ARE BURIED THERE. with the construction of the other telescopes...BONES HAVE BEEN FORCIBLY REMOVED. and what happened to them? we don't know.... the bones of a chief is the most sacred in hawai'i. burials are forbidden to disturb under Hawai'i law...and yet why are they doing it in mauna kea. it's not right. the US government in response to the apology resolution made it so that hawaiians have the right to protect our culture and identy and knowledge. this is what we are trying to do. even then, you don't need to be religious to pray on the mountain. you don't need to follow the kapu of our elders to pray and offer to the mountain. a large amount of protectors are christians or have no religion. this isn't religion vs science, or culture vs science. this is the kanaka maoli identity fighting desecration. mahalo for reading and understanding what we are fighting for
Sounds like the problem is not really the telescope but the overall relation with the native Hawaiians. Which is very unfortunate because it means the problem won't be resolved any time soon.
It's a high profile "win" for their movment if they block TMT, which is why they are likely fighting it instead of, say, fighting to restore species habitat elsewhere on the Islands (Hawaii has suffered more species loss than pretty much anywhere else). Sadly, if they do "win", a small patch of dirt won't host a telescope, and students will lose a million dollars a year the TMT plans to put into STEM via the THINK fund ("The Hawaii Island New Knowledge" fund), not to mention losing great jobs that feed the economy on the Big Island. That energy could have gone into something useful like habitat preservation. There are many more native Hawaiians who support TMT than are shown in the video - they are the majority - and this whole thing has gone through an exhaustive process, especially with respect to ensuring appropriate site use. See tmt.org for more information. Hawaii's reputation for upholding the rule of law will also be hurt as it will be clear that the court rulings were not respected. I am dubious about the intentions of Jason Momoa, seen in the video, given how he has the need to rehabilitate his image after his 2011 ComicCon comments about women hit the fan in 2017, or might simply benefit from the publicity, though writing "No TMT" on his bare chest and glowering at the camera is ridiculous, not to mention his posed "arrest" shots recently (he wasn't arrested and it was just for photos). It's also worth noting that one of the leaders, Pisciotta, is a Hawaiian who used to work as a telescope assistant on the mountain for twelve years. Clearly she didn't think telescopes up there were a bad idea when she took the job, but rather than fixing things with respect to site usage - and there have been many efforts to do that since she quit in 2011 - she still wants to shut it all down. Now she's "found religion" and thinks having any telescopes up there harms cultural practises. Also, why is she shedding tears at elders being arrested when she is the one encouraging them to be arrested for the cause?
Maybe they can realise that this sacred ground could also be used to look into places never seen before. Surely they can do this alongside the natives and respect the sacred mountain.
@@edwardhalmarack7122 maybe you should realise that this mountain is sacred to the native culture of hawaii? And keeping it culturally sacred is important for the future generations of native Hawaiians and pasifika people in general. You can replace a telescope elsewhere but you can't replace someone's sacred land.
No, it will not. The existing telescopes are near the summit of Maunakea. The site of TMT is to be located on a lava plain BELOW the summit. www.maunakeaandtmt.org/get-the-facts/
@@Ryanm96744 The Canary Islands already have activists not wanting it there, and I doubt the TMT is willing to go through all this strife again. I think they're here for the long haul.
The telescope is an instrument of wisdom, knowledge, curiosity and progression of humanity. It is sad that people that have seafairing ancestors that used the constellation of stars to navigate and explore the vast ocean would oppose the construction.
@@vincedhilandulay7798 the folks in canary islands ACTUALLY want it. we oppose construction because this type of industrialization been proven to be damaging and non beneficial in the ʻong run. this telescope is completely unnecessary
To be clear: 1. The Theory of "Evolution (as proposed in Charles Darwin's book: 'On the Origin of Species by Means of Natural Selection or the Preservation of the Favored Races in the Struggle for Life')" is the Racism/White supremacy ideology (and the theory is false). 2. French biologist Louis Pasteur began exposing the Theory of Evolution to be false several years after the publication of Darwin's book. 3. The Theory of Evolution has no Formula (characteristic of theories without substance in fact, truth or law). 4. There is no gene in the entire genome spectrum to account for the claim of genetic evolution. 5. There are no facts or evidence to prove or support the claim that organisms change into other organisms of a more complex nature through any "unguided" or random "process". 6. The value placed on the Theory of Evolution has been connected to it's claim (a false claim) that so-called White people are "Evolved" beyond so-called non-White people through the "process of Evolution" (centered around the "stronger" dominating, mistreating or wiping-out the "weaker" etc. including the idea that the more so-called non-White the people, the closer to the "ape-man" etc.). 7. Science means Knowledge. Knowledge is to Observe, Learn and Respect. Observe is to look and listen. Learn is to find facts or find answers. Respect is to consider or think about the truth.
Fight for your Sovereignty and a Free & Independent Hawaiian Kingdom. Regain your Country, Culture, History, Language, Traditions and Customs. Remember who you are.. You are not part of North America, you are part of Polynesia. Stand Proud!
The telescope is an instrument of wisdom, knowledge, curiosity and progression of humanity. It is sad that people that have seafairing ancestors that used the constellation of stars to navigate and explore the vast ocean would oppose the construction.
@@vincedhilandulay7798 No one opposes the advancement of Knowledge in today's world, but we must always do it by Respecting All the different Cultures that currently inhabit our Planet. Hawaii is Not part of the Continental United States, the Hawaiian Arcipelago is a chain of Islands that were Illegally Annexed by the Americans in 1898. The Advancement of Mankind has always been made at the Expense of the Indigenous, African and Asian people by White Europeans. Where was the so called civilized man when they discovered people who were completely different to themselves? Unfortunately people of Color have always been deemed by European Conquerors as Savage and Unintelligent. So keep your Kind words in the name of Progression for Humanity, which by the way is exactly the same tactics used by Europeans who were Curious in their Conquest to Colonize the World. Respect the Native people of Hawaii and their wishes. The people Native to the land are who decide what is considered Sacred to their people and Not the United States Government who currently Illegally occupies the Kingdom of Hawaii! TMT can go with their backup site and build the Telescope on one of Spain's Canary Islands where the people welcome the construction.
@@vincedhilandulay7798 Based on your reply, it's clear you don't have the mental dexterity to give an Intelligent reply... Stay out of the kitchen if you can't handle the heat! 🔥
@@Roberto-Antonio All you have is all you are. A walking, racist platitude, filled with a soft shell of ignorance of actual history and the beautiful blending of cultures that makes Hawaii what it is. All racists like yourself ignore history and the conquests of people of color, like the Moors, the Mongolians, the Persians, and the Tahitians themselves. It seems to be a commonality between you people. Like you're reading a script.
Its beautiful how we romanticize our lands. This island was first populated by Polynesians merely when the byzantine empire was still a thing, and how much Europe has changed since. Populations shift, sacred places get desecrated in the name of progress, and then forgotten. Seven or nine Troys built on top of each other, surviving memory thanks to one story ages old, layers beneath layers built under Budapest since Roman times, sacred caves/natural catacombs that meant everything for entire groups of people now gone, some gutted for museums, others destroyed by nature's only predictable law of constant change.
Is it difficult being run by your emotions? I haven't known what that feels like since I was 6 or 7. Since then, this pesky thing called a "brain" (did I spell that right?) keeps getting in the way of things like this...
Our HAWAII Brother & Sisters yous are the Oceans you's are the land,you's are the Ngahere,you's are E- tangata Etu E TANGATA HONOR HONOR HUMBLE KIND HEARTED I SALUTE 🙌🙌 🙌🙌 🙌🙌 🙌🙌 🙌 FROM AOTEAROA NZ 🌳🌳🌳🌈🌈🌈🌈🌈🌏👈
He's got a great heart....and little to no brains. And if you can just jump on board with an agenda without caring about the validity or truth to that agendas ends...that proves just how much of a useful idiot you are. Try thinking with your head and not your heart. Facts not feelings.
@@grimfryggdrasil6098 absolutely not. If anything, fuckheads like you will make me louder and work even harder to help educate the world and show how backwards and disgusting you people truly are.
Aloha. All the islands of Hawaii are sacred, every square inch. Every step you take is on sacred land so be careful an respect what’s your an not yours. This whole earth is sacred. With that mind frame now we can all respect each other’s space . Aloha
This research has led me to some conclusions. First, there are indeed places on Mauna Kea that are sacred. These are places where Hawaiians have continuously participated in traditional and customary practices; so there are unquestionably specific geo-cultural sites on Mauna Kea that are protected, and the practices that are associated with these sites meet all the defining criteria of being traditional and customary. But the extension of sacredness to the entire mountain and the air column above it gives rise to questions about how much cultural validation there is for the idea that this pre-empts any and all other uses of the mountain. I found no documentation indicating that Mauna Kea, as a whole, is sacred. I could not find any reference to any blanket of sacredness over the entire mountain and the air column in any of the usual sources of validation - not even in the Kumulipo Hawaiian creation-origin chant, or in the writings of Native Hawaiian historians of the 19th century like Samuel Kamakau, David Malo, John Papa ‘I‘i and Kepelino. Beyond the blanket-of-sacredness claim, there is nothing else on record to suggest any validated sacred places would be disturbed by the construction or operation of the TMT. Validated sacred places include the peaks of Pu‘u o Kūkahau‘ula, Pu‘u Poli‘ahu and Pu‘u Lilinoe, Lake Waiau, and various heiau (temples), ‘ahu (altars), ana (caves), lua kā ko‘i (quarries), and ilina (burials). In fact, I believe the decision about the TMT’s location was made to ensure that no sacred site was violated, nor access to any sacred site impeded. The telescope was also sited below the summit to minimize its visual obtrusiveness. ... “The TMT presents probably the greatest opportunity - the greatest cultural opportunity, religious opportunity - that we will ever have to do the one thing that is at the center of every cultural group. That is, search for the ancestors. Our story of creation begins with the night of Pō, with the darkness. I’m assuming that at some point in time, with projects like the TMT, we will actually be able to go back and find the Night of Pō. I cannot think of anything more significant than that.” -Peter Apo, Office of Hawaiian Affairs trustee
Take it easy with all those facts and logic, bro. These silly, sad, uneducated fools don't like it when people know more than them. So, it's an everyday struggle for them...
I’m against it and Mauna Kea is scared and it connects to where my people and ancestors that I come from and we Hawaiians know that Mauna Kea is Sacred and Hawaii is my home and I say give us back Mauna Kea and we will destroy the telescope and we never needed the telescope we knew how to Navigate without the telescope and I’m an Ali’i and so my kingdom is still alive and I’m an Ali’i as well and I wanna just go up on Mauna Kea and visit my people as well and my seven time grandfather is Kamehameha 1 and so Mauna Kea is Sacred and I’m against the telescope so I would destroy the telescope
@@kiszmyass9638 it's just upsetting how blind people can be. He must really think the government gives a fuck about him. You right though pardon my foul language 💯
The protesters say they own the mountain so where is the deed? If you own something you call the cops and have them removed. What are we missing? The TMT process, permits, surveys and surveys of the surveys has been going since 2006 and NOW you don't like it? No laws have been broken. In fact if governor Ige does not allow the construction HE could be sued. So much drama of an easily fixed problem. If the protesters want to be taken seriously they need to explain their side in a unemotional fact-based way. Every time I hear the "you wouldn't understand" response I think I'm arguing with a teenage girl.
Mason Matthews see haole’s like you are ignorant and uneducated. The kingdom of Hawaii is an occupied nation..we did not ask to be apart of the United States of terrorists, they nurseries thousands of our people for money and you think we had deeds...WTF!!! Why would we need deeds for lands that are lands that belong to the Hawaiian people? So when we say you wouldn’t understand, we mean you wouldn’t understand , you can’t fathom the anger and frustration we Hawaiian people feel
Sunny Sied I wouldn’t understand? So your saying that the Hawaiian people wanted to be apart of the US?? Ha ha ha what a joke!!! You know how many Hawaiian people where slaughters by the hands of the terrorist that is the US, only you haoles would believe that we wanted to be slaves to the US
@@gunplabuildersunitedusa Nope, I'm saying there was no illegal occupation of the Hawaiian Kingdom. It got overthrown by an internal, homegrown coup of wealthy and powerful haole (who were citizens and royal subjects). There was no military invasion or occupation. Queen Liliuokalani handed the keys to the Kingdom without a fight. She abandoned her kuleana and didn't protect the nation, which was her constitutional duty. When you surrender, that's the end of the ballgame. She surrendered. She thought President Cleveland was gonna bail her out and do her work for her. Well, Restoration Day 2.0 didn't happen. Every country has to defend their sovereignty. The Hawaiian Kingdom couldn't defend itself from the French, British or its own citizens. There was no American invasion. If you want a U.S. military invasion, then look at Haiti, which was a lengthy and bloody war campaign. The Honolulu Riflemen took the Kingdom like it was a walk on the beach.
I support the protectors. Why is it necessary to build a new observatory? There are 13 observatory sites already built on Mauna Kea. UC Berkeley closed their observatory a couple years ago leaving 12 operational observatories. Why not just convert/modify the UC Berkeley closed observatory to a 30 meter telescope? Respectfully, BT Out!
I really hope that they can come to some sort of agreement, and quickly. Respecting a people's heritage is most important, but so is the knowledge and understanding that comes from the science being conducted in that very unique place. It is the greatest location for celestial observations on Earth. It is also the Hawaiian people's holy ground.
So let me ask this question when do the actions justify the means. I love science and promoting discovery that’s the way of evolution but if we sacrifice our heritage and the core foundation that make us people who will be in the end. Answer me that We took Native American lands from the native Americans now from natives of Hawaii where does it end?. How long will we keep saying in the name of science when really it’s all for selfishness and greed an money an power. I ask you this find a way to build this monster and disgusting thing that doesn’t compromise the natives of Hawaii or their cultures.
@Dr Moriarty To be clear: According to National and International law, Government's oath is to act according to the rule of law; and protection of the people's rights. Human rights violations are war crimes (in this instance for Mauna Kea); regarding the Native Tennant Rights with the people and sacred lands.
@@miguellugo9816 To be clear: 1. The Theory of "Evolution (as proposed in Charles Darwin's book: 'On the Origin of Species by Means of Natural Selection or the Preservation of the Favored Races in the Struggle for Life')" is the Racism/White supremacy ideology (and the theory is false). 2. French biologist Louis Pasteur began exposing the Theory of Evolution to be false several years after the publication of Darwin's book. 3. The Theory of Evolution has no Formula (characteristic of theories without substance in fact, truth or law). 4. There is no gene in the entire genome spectrum to account for the claim of genetic evolution. 5. There are no facts or evidence to prove or support the claim that organisms change into other organisms of a more complex nature through any "unguided" or random "process". 6. The value placed on the Theory of Evolution has been connected to it's claim (a false claim) that so-called White people are "Evolved" beyond so-called non-White people through the "process of Evolution" (centered around the "stronger" dominating, mistreating or wiping-out the "weaker" etc. including the idea that the more so-called non-White the people, the closer to the "ape-man" etc.). 7. Science means Knowledge. Knowledge is to Observe, Learn and Respect. Observe is to look and listen. Learn is to find facts or find answers. Respect is to consider or think about the truth.
Adept so rule of law is trampling on a heritage of a people who are often mistreated and cast aside because they are not a certain color or from a certain place? This is their home their land and yet it’s being taken away from them.
Our goverment is meant to protect the people not support private interests. The islands have been exploited so much it is a wonderous telescope with amazing capability but it does not belong there. We are in solidarty with the protectors of Mauna Kea
This is a complex issue. The desecration of Hawaiian culture, lands, wildlife, air and especially our pristine water are rivals with the corporate American way of life ( which is failing, btw) is what is included in OUR preservation of the Hawaiian resistance of TMT. Not science not progress but preserving our culture and respect of land and people 🕊.
all the people who aren’t from Hawai’i don’t know much about our history, you guys don’t learn this in your text books, you guys learn about a man who stole America or the people who took others land, but they don’t say who took Hawaiian lands, how they held a gun to our last king, took OUR queen as prisoner & so so much more.
of course. but that’s not the point. the land up on the mountains are very sacred to our people. we’re not even allowed to go up there in the first place. it is only meant for kings, queens, and our gods. and it’s also the fact that they already built 13 telescopes up there. they keep promising us it is the last then next you know they build another one. see it’s not that we’re against science, we’re against the disrespect on our indigenous people and land. too much injustices have already happened to hawaii. first the US illegally took our land and now they can’t even respect it. it really does hurt us all and we have had enough.
@@edwardandmichaelsbiggestfa1967 protesting against the us government in this instance is like throwing a pebble at a giant steel wall and expecting the wall to fall down..good luck i guess...
@@mr.OldNews even the government knows what they did was wrong. all we got was a sorry. sooner or later we’ll get at least something back. like cheaper rent or just them respecting our indeginous land instead of building unwanted and unneeded things. that’s all we ask
Too many words. And we don't clean up the garbage left behind. Or build up the homeless. No one's going to understand until you open your eye. Lol. That's my problem with a multi million dollar project no matter what it is.
As someone who isn’t kanaka and has lived in Hawai’i the last several years and has seen what’s going on in places like Puerto Rico as well, the issue is that most of the time actual Hawaiians (not transplants) aren’t the ones who the ones in charge of important leadership positions to not only stop things like this from happening but also putting in systems that prioritise the preservation of Hawaiian culture along with embedding it in all areas of Hawai’i. And trust me when I say this, there are people who have lived in Hawai’i for decades if not a generation and aren’t Hawaiian but will feel like what they say has some sort of weight when it comes to something that goes against Hawaiian values. I think for someone who isn’t from here the first thing someone like myself should do is listen and learn and contribute to the community especially helping raise the next generation. Because I feel like that’s where the disconnect happens, people move here give their kids Hawaiian names loosely call themselves Hawaiian or from here and then when it comes to major issues they don’t understand the significance. But anyway that’s just my two cents, respect land and culture that isn’t ours and learn the more people show that willingness to learn the more I feel like Hawaiian’s will feel like they’re being listened to. On a quick note about the leadership situation it’s not about only kanaka being allowed to be in positions of power it’s more so having someone who understands Hawaiian values culture and makes it their priority to not only preserve it but have it a main focal point of the islands. Just like how people end up travelling to countries and get excited about experiencing the food and cultures why not have that same feeling about Hawai’i when people say when in Rome do as the romans do well when in Hawai’i do as Hawaiians do
I am all in favor of science. But, too frequently, science is used as a club to justify outrages. I agree with the Hawaiians on this one! Science is intended to serve humankind, not visa versa. Preserve Mauna Kea for the Hawaiians.
TMT will serve humankind with it's unique purpose. How beneficial astronomy is at the moment, you can throw in the air, but dont write it off at an early stage where we're only discovering at this point and in the future, practical implications can be made.
Sadly you've drank the kool aid and have this one backwards. Theres a lot of emotion involved because it's people beliefs, that they got from their parents. This kind of superstition happens in all religious denominations. This is merely racist, nationalistic people (who are the moral minority) who see this as a win for their proposed "sovereignty." They are attacking the weakest link in their list of targets. Where were these people when the last telescopes were built? Where were they when the plans for the latest string of foreign owned hotels went up? Sitting on their couches eating too much sugar...not giving a fuck because they know they can't bully people with money/power.
@@KamenRider808 Hotels are one thing. Foreign investors raping the landscape and pocketing the funds. Telescopes and other scientific endeavors are much different. The only people fighting against the telescope are ignorant, uneducated, idiots who bought the lies and believed the numerous false narratives set forth by the deceitful and often times extremely racist people who sold them.
Protesters, not protestor's. Get it right. And those people, by all definitions of the word, are 'protesting'. Therefore they are protesters. Kind of like how you'd call someone boxing a boxer.
@@waimeagrl5142 Okay, TMT specifically has been reviewed and planned for 15 years to be 'safe' culturally and environmentally. I can't believe how much this has been said, but all the environmental assessments have been done and reviewed already. TMT is there legally, and socially, it was accepted in a local vote. When TMT goes up, 5 of the other telescopes will be decomissioned. At the end of it's lease, TMT will be taken down and the environment restored. All of those are more environmentally friendly than the thousands of 'Protectors' who are PROTESTING and living on a make-shift base thats going unchecked for sanitary conditions. As for harm that "wants to be done" (?) TMT will benefit science, discoveries, Big Island economy, Big Island Jobs, and Big Island kids. Not a single LEGIT negative affect of TMT has been said in all of these videos. Only vague normative statements and revisionist, incorrect history
Calvin HI Calvin, you should listen to videos by Keanu Sai and Sen. Kai Kahele and perhaps you’ll be educated on the subject enough to speak intelligently about the subject.
@@waimeagrl5142 I have. If you watched them yourself, use his points to defend what stance your taking because I cant tell what you're trying to say specifically. Because I dont want to argue history and annexation. Only TMT specifically.
$1.4 Billion, and they couldn't retrofit one of the other 13 telescopes? They had to build a new one? Sounds like some politicians decided it was better to take some kickbacks and line their pockets with cash to me.
To be clear: According to National and International law, Government's oath is to act according to the rule of law; and protection of the people's rights. Human rights violations are war crimes (in this instance for Mauna Kea); regarding the Native Tennant Rights with the people and sacred lands.
You'd think they would be laws to protect these lands, but I guess they're aren't or they're like "Fuck it, we're doing this for research and we don't give a shit about your traditions or your sacred lands."
@@HawkinaBox ofcourse cause they always make the laws according to them. They never give a fuck about the people. We should be standing up also for our rights. Because us getting upset through this video and then going on on your day wont fix anything. Let's go fight!!
@@____________3321 The funny thing is, TMT has gone through the legal process making it lawfully sound, making it NOT a human right violation or war crime. Legally, it's sound with Native tenant rights and sacred lands, both of which aren't even affected by TMT. So the comment is actually pro-tmt, not anti-tmt.
They are already doing that all over the world, and frankly, it's a waste of resources. They should focus on taking care of this one planet we got, instead of pretending to be Jodie Foster in Contact
@@leob4403 Astronomy and space exploration help protect the planet with new technologies, satellites to monitor the planet's health and telescopes to protect the planet from cosmic threats, such as asteroids and solar storms.
@@leob4403 There are definitely ways where you can defend against an asteroid. NASA is launching the DART mission in 2020 that will use a high velocity kinectic impacter to slam into an asteroid and deflect its trajectory. Also, telescopes help determine the size and trajectory of asteroids. If you see it from far away, then you have more time to prepare a defense and to warn specific Earth regions of an impending impact zone. The telescopes act as kia'i of the planet.
@@sunnysied713 Yeah but these specific telescopes are made to search for extraterrestrial life, and that is a childish notion, it's self indulging a teenage boyroom fantasy. We can't keep destroying this planet for such nonsense
We have blacks Mexicans whites Arabs Jews Chinese Japanese other natives and native Americans that have our backs about the sacred mountain. All have various religious beliefs but all agree that our sacred mountain shouldn't be desecrated. If Hawaii is considered an American state,what happened to freedom of religion?
what happened to the freedom to protect our identity as kanaka maoli. that's a big question too. the US has proved through the apology resolution that we are sovereign as well as the fact that we have the right to protect our culture. ku kia'i mauna, cause we not going anywhere
If this mountain is sacred what about the other mountains? Haleakala, Hualalai, Mauna Loa? People have built things there but no protest. If Mauna Kea is sacred land then how did the roads up there get built, How did the other Telescopes get built without Protests??? I want a defined answer that makes sense.
@@GearZNet Of course it matters. Mauna Kea is a natural geologic formation, not a man-made structure. Huge difference. The Hawaiian Volcanic Observatory was built on the outer rim of the Kilauea Caldera, a sacred volcano and physical manifestation of Pele. The protesters are very hypocritical. I guess they don't want to die a fiery lava death.
Yeah but doing this is killing their heritage and culture, the Polynesians were a seafairing civilizations that used the constellation of stars to navigate and explore the vast ocean, their ancestors would be disappointed.
Absolutely true. To all the ignorant fools who believe Hawaii is the 50th State of the Union, please verify by posting and official certified copy of the Treaty of Annexation that allegedly occurred in 1898. Post here👇 I dare you. 😎
For us Pacific islanders when something or some place is sacred then we keep it sacred. Our ancestors made it sacred & we continue to make it sacred. It can be a certain thing, a rock, a pond, a lake, a river, a tree, a certain species of animal mainly fishes or even a whole island can be sacred to us. In this case by the Hawaiians its this particular mountain. Im from Micronesia & we mean it when we say something is sacred. From the island i come from we dnt eat some certain fishes because we consider them sacred. Theres also a very tiny coral island that we consider sacred & can never land a canoe on its sandy beaches because we believe our ancestors do not want anything landing on its soil so we anchor boats just a few feet away & have to swim ashore.
The Hawaiian Volcanic Observatory was built (twice!) on the outer rim of the Kilauea Caldera, which is another sacred mauna and the metaphysical manifestation of Pele. Sacred land can be used for pragmatic reasons. The kupuna even built the Mauna Kea Adze Quarry on the summit region of Mauna a Wākea. It's the largest prehistoric quarry site in the world. It was a stone age industrial complex used to make stone tools and weapons. And it extended all the way up to 13,000 ft of the mauna. Science and culture can coexist on the mauna.
What makes something sacred? What if this observatory would be sacred to me? Would it be acceptable then? Because you deem one thing sacred does that mean it objectively holds more value? We, being the arbiters of value in this world are greater than nature since we can put a value on it. Nature in itself is neutral, neither good nor bad, deserving of neither admiration nor censure.
@@Samartitxiki Native people makes it sacred, people who've been living there for quite some time do. It certainly holds value to them, so it's not right for outsiders just to barge in and impose their will.
@@khust2993 they were the outsiders there too at one point, but they came in and did what they wanted, labeled some things sacred, killed off some species of animals, you know the usual conquer and take over thing.
You are welcome to build TMT for example on Caucasus mountains. There would be no religion/cultural problems, there are many suitable locations and already working RAN telescopes.
@@Lea_Kaderova There's a small group of radical protesters who are using the TMT to advance their independence politics. Hawaii surveyed the public, multiple times, and most locals want the science project. The TMT is being constructed one mile away from the sacred summit. Also, it's a large shield volcano with lots of open space. There isn't a good reason to oppose a telescope, which is a tool of learning.
@@mimicku5256 Ok but still, ethicaly clean solution to me would be organized some public debate about that and then organized referendum about TMT. I personaly wouldnt have a problem with TMT if I would live there, but its their land and they should have right to reject or accept that project and not that somebody, somewhere 7000 km away make decision without public consent of Hawaians, especially not after 12 or how much other telescopes already built there also without their consent and in situation when its obviously sensitive topic for native Hawaians.
Jeff Troy The law of the jungle or an excuse of an illegal overthrow. World history shows cultures getting screwed over by the white man not the law of the jungle.
No disrespect intended to Native Hawai'ians and their culture and religion, but, personally, I would consider it an honor to have one of my ancestral sacred places used for TMT, which will provide knowledge of the universe to all mankind.
And what would your ancestral sacred place be? I know you mean no disrespect to Native Hawaiians, but to build on sacred seeded land is the epitome of disrespect.
There are already about 12. Almost 30 years ago it was agreed that only a few would be built on Mauna kea. Keep in mind Mauna kea is also home to native species that are endangered and it's a source for water. Also, the building of anymore telescopes is illegal. Basically, the guys who are leasing it don't have a legal right to do so. There's more going on here than you think.
@@bulamoves2987 Building a telescope on top of a mountain/volcano is a very natural relationship between nature and science. It's not desecration. The land is being used properly and respectfully. They're not building a Costco, McDonald's, strip club or mega-mansion up there. Mauna Kea has many special environmental, climatological, atmospheric and social infrastructure properties that make it the best site for astronomy in the northern hemisphere. They're using the aina for a perfectly good reason and don't want to steal or desecrate any wahi pana. Sure, they're excavating a 20 foot deep foundation for the observatories pier structure. They're going to save all the excavated rock material in a special location and later use it to restore the site back to it's natural condition when the observatory is decommissioned. Based on exhaustive surveys, they verified that the build site had no sacred cultural heritage artifacts (no heiau, ahu, iwi, etc). Also, during the excavation phase, they will have an archaeologist there (just in case) to ensure no historical data gets lost (if it even exists). They're building the TMT on an ancient lava rock plain. They made the plan very pono. The kia'i should be working together with the astronomers to offer pule and mele to avoid any spiritual offense.
@@bruhinthewild The TMT permit has special conditions SC10 and SC11 that legally require the telescopes to be decommissioned. That agreement is legally binding and actionable. Also, they are promising to remove 3 telescopes very quickly. It will take 8-10 years to construct TMT. Those three telescopes will be gone by the time TMT sees first light. The TMT has a legal conservation district use permit that has been affirmed by the Supreme Court of Hawaii. The telescope is being constructed at 13,200 ft where it's cold, windy, has 40% less oxygen and air pressure, increased atmospheric radiation AND it's an alpine desert. The only flora and fauna that live up their are algae, moss and lichen (all ubiquitous) and some endemic bugs, which aren't endangered. The rest of the wildlife gives up after 10,000 ft.
It's sad to see this happen because both sides believe in the same thing. The native Hawai'i ancestors used Mauna Kea as a sacred place to commune with Gods and the Universe and share their knowledge and now that use has continued into modern times with the mountain being used to study the Universe and share the information they gain with all people. I think there needs to be more dialogue, understanding, and involvement on both sides so we can all benefit from this incredible natural wonder and its unique connection to the Universe.
@@The.Hawaiian.Kingdom Maunakea isn't a heiau, temple, church, synoguague, etc. Mauna Kea is a 13,800 ft, 52,500 acre, 1,000,000 year old volcano. There's no comparison between a tiny man-made structure and a massive natural, geologic formation. The kanaka built the Mauna Kea Adze Quarry, which covered 7 miles, was concentrated heavily around 1.5 square miles and extended up to 13,000 ft. They created a giant industrial complex, which scarred huge swaths of land, to quarry basalt rock and manufacture stone tools and weapons. The kupuna used their 'church' for many pragmatic purposes - often with destructive side effects. Furthermore, no ethnic, religious group has de facto control and ownership of a volcano. The mauna is massive. Science and culture can easily coexist. But the kia'i don't want to. They just want to perpetuate fear, anger, hate and historical grievances to promote their political agendas. The kia'i claim that nothing was ever built on Maunakea and that it's a sacred 'church'. Well, the adze quarry was a huge industrial complex where the kupuna aggressively quarried the land and it had destructive side-effects. The kia'i _PRETEND_ that the ancestors treated the mauna with velvet gloves, but that's clearly _not true._ Mauna Kea is a 13,800 ft, 52,500 acre, 1,000,000 year old volcano. It's not a heiau, temple, church, or synagogue. There's no comparison between a man-made structure and a massive, natural genealogical formation. The mauna had twelve levels of sacredness from sea-level to summit AND the kupuna built an adze quarry up to 13,000 ft. Culturally, kanaka use the āina on the 'sacred' mauna when it served their interests. Church? The kia'i can't use that BS excuse when the mauna has the largest prehistoric quarry site in the world. Lol. Furthermore, the kanaka used maunakea for ancient astronomy (and some spiritual practitioners still do) so it's a natural progression for modern people to practice modern astronomy.
@@The.Hawaiian.Kingdom Didn't Queen Liliuokalani try to abrogate the constitution, overthrow the government, unilaterally create her own constitution, increase her autocratic powers, strengthen a more absolute monarchy and instruct the military to defend her revolution with force? YES. Didn't the insurgents find out about her illegal and unconstitutional plot, lead a counter-revolution, depose her and take control of the government? YES. Didn't the Queen surrender and later sign an abdication letter where she took oath to the constitution, reliquished sovereign claims, and acknowledge the Provisional Government? YES. Didn't the Republic of Hawaii have control of the government and country? YES. Didn't the Republic of Hawaii request annexation from the United States? YES. Didn't the Republic of Hawaii unanimously pass a Treaty of Annexation in _their_ Legislature that later failed to pass through the U.S. Senate? YES. Didn't the U.S. eventual accept the annexation and memorialize it with a joint resolution? YES. Didn't the U.S. also annex the Republic of Texas, a sovereign and independent country, with a joint resolution and it was FORTY ONE times bigger than Hawaii? YES. Wasn't the Newlands Resolution passed with a TWO THIRDS majority by BOTH the Senate and the House of Representatives, which is stronger than the approval criteria required for a treaty? YES. Did the United States and Republic of Hawaii accept, abide and act according to the Newlands Resolution? YES. Didn't all of the Kingdom's allies and treaty holders provide formal, written and de facto recognition of the Provisional Government, Republic of Hawaii and Annexation? YES. Are there any U.S. or International laws of 1898 that state that a country must use a treaty (and only a treaty) to annex foreign land? NO. Did TMT or astronomy have anything to do with Liliuokalani's attempted coup, her overthrow by insurgents or the annexation? NO.
@@The.Hawaiian.Kingdom The TMT observatory building foundation is only 1.5 acres (which will be at 13,150 ft) and the mid-level facility will be 0.5-0.8 acres at around 9,300 ft in Hale Pohaku, which is about 8 miles away from the summit. The TMT permit is for 8 acres, but that doesn't mean the buildings are that big. Lol. Everything (buildings, roads, parking lot, etc) are included in the permit, but that doesn't even mean the whole 8 acres of land will be _developed_ or _disturbed._ TMT is *tiny* and can easily fit on Maunakea, which is *52,500* acres in size. The Office of Mauna Kea Management, Board of Land and Natural Resources, State and astronomers have agreed to decommission, remove and restore FIVE observatories to nature in EXCHANGE for ONE new one. That's a great compromise!
If you think these natives stand a chance, hate to break it to you , but they won’t be stopping anything from being built. At least these are actual Hawaiians and not the “Hawaiians” that moved to the island in the 1970s
Perspective is really simple: put a huge structure OF ANY SORT right on the front lawn of the house of every supporter of the TMT project. Tell them you’re doing it for the benefit of mankind in being able to see into the universe. See how that goes over. Oh and then arrest them for protesting it! What makes Hawai’i beautiful is it’s unspoiled spaces. No one comes to Hawaii to soak in the buildings and modern technology! What makes Hawaii’s people beautiful is they don’t separate themselves from nature and to a great extent each other. It is felt the moment you step off the plane. By people from all over the world. Can you say the same for many places on earth???????? I’m what you would consider a “local.” My blood is Japanese. I am a third generation immigrant here. Growing up here I have experienced both the unguided anger towards non-Hawaiians BUT I have felt SO MUCH MORE aloha and connection to my other local Hawaiian and non-Hawaiian island people that has made it hard for me to want to leave. I do love the world and other cultures, but Hawai’i is special.
You know, in ancient past you would be considered blood, hanai, maoli. You still embody what it is to be Hawaiian. Being maoli was a nationality as well as an ethnicity-today I think we are all just trying to be a unified global citizen. So many foreigners learned the ancient ways and have passed that down throughout the times, you are one of those, you’re more than local. To me you are maoli and one day the consensus will recognize that again.
Kintanti A Aww! I feel your aloha! I loved my kupuna however little time I got to spend with them. Their presence has stayed with me and will always be therefor me and all those whose hearts are open. Yes I feel Hawaiian but I think it’s important to point out my Japanese ancestry because I’ve read a lot of negative comments from people who are not Hawaiian that might assume that you have to be of Hawaiian blood to be accepted here. So thank you for raising awareness on that point as well! I tell all my friends from the mainland that the most important thing to a local person here is the ability to know and feel your heart. If it is not clear what your heart intentions are then you cannot expect local people to warmly embrace you.
areUaware the USA is the only reason the Hawaiians are still alive. Tribal wars would have killed the majority off a long time ago. A small population would be stuck in the stone ages. You would really prefer that? You’re taking your privilege for granted.
Alma Reyes what do African Americans or immigration centers have to do with this? Ridiculous that you’ve even brought that up. You do realize that immigration centers and racism exists all over the world? And it’s LEGALLY not “their” land. The kingdom of Hawaii actively sought annexation and they got it. Be mad at the Kingdom, not the United States. And you proved my point about us in the USA being privileged. The fact that so many people risk so much to get here, proves that. You are overlooking the things you’ve been given because a minority experiences some struggles. Which is commonplace nowadays. Get over yourselves. What good have you actually done with your privilege? Nothing. At all. Virtue signaling at its finest. Laws are laws.
This is the starting point of understanding what, why, than hopfully find a common ground of how we all can find a solutions. Intigrating hawaiian culture kapu and science that crosses paths. Finding answers in the cosmos to what our first ansestors done in stargazing as path finders to hawaii. A reason a pourpose for mauna kea to continue being a pivot point for stargazing and pathfinding with advance tools and equipments and knowledge and understanding is the focus point. For laau la'paau to work everyone must leave their pilikea at the base of mauna kea. Talk story than move forward with clear mind and aloha. My question to all kanaka maoles "native people" of hawaii. By ending the building of TMT will it end our ansestors quest to seek higher knowledge and understanding of our universe. " E ho mai ka iki mai luna mai e. O na mea huna noe au ona mele e??? Aloha kakou+
I agree with the people and they should take it up with their governor. I hear she's pretty reasonable and I think the people should take a vote. Take in mind maybe this is for the protection for the people.
2:53 The ENTIRE world will benefit from this. Hawaiians should feel PROUD that their sacred land was chosen for such a monumental advance for humanity. Hawaiians need to face the fact that the Big Island, Oahu, Maui and Kauai belong to everyone now. If they don't like it, they should all move to Niihau. My people (I'm 2 parts Native American) have had the entire U.S. mainland taken from us. It is what it is. They are not going to win this nor are they going to win back any "large" parcels of land any time soon. Whether the land was taken from them illegally or not is neither here nor there at this point in history. The U.S. will never EVER give back control or land to the Hawaiians. They are kicking a dead horse on that. They must accept the fact that the geographical location of the Hawaiian Islands alone is a key location for the U.S. Military. Perhaps it's time to focus on other parts of culture like preserving their language and other customs. I've lived in Hawaii since 1991 and I can tell you 9 out of 10 Hawaiian kids can barely speak more than 2 or 3 sentences in their native tongue. Naturally, sentimentally I wish them all luck in their plight but I wouldn't hold my breath in the same way that I won't hold my breath waiting for the U.S. government to return the U.S. mainland to my people. Peace, Love and Light to ALL...
Brah, it's a telescope - a tool of learning. The TMT is being built at 13,200 ft on a volcano on cold, windy, barren, alpine desert lava rock. It's no biodiversity hotspot. It's inhospitable. Only some algae, lichen, moss and some insects live up there. The rest of the wildlife gives up after 10,000 ft (for obvious reasons). That āina ain't good for homesteading, farming or ranching, but it's perfect for astronomy to explore the lewa lani. Aloha.
And how is the TMT an actual danger or threat to Earth? The TMT can be used to help detect and track Earth-killing asteroids. Astronomy helps advance human technology and protect Earth.
In 2003, TMT scientists conducted several tests for potential sites for it's TMT telescope. Two sites in Chile, and two others in Mexico and Spain (respectively San Pedro Martir and Roque de los Muchachos Observatories). All sites presented a different set of advantages and challenges. But all these sites (including Maunakea) are ideal for the TMT project, but the difference is permits and leasing, it is much easier to get a permit and cheaper lease on Indigenous treaty land. In other words, it's easier to take land from the Natives than it is taking it from private White own land or from western government owned public land. The Native Hawaiians are simply saying build it somewhere else or rebuild it on the same foundations of the old telescope. It cost too much? Ask for donations from supporters!
@@Thomas_Oklahoma No single person or single race of people is entitled to it. The summit, where the astronomy precinct is located, is state land. Crown lands and government lands under the Kingdom of Hawaii never belonged to "the people". In fact, the mountain was leased to ranchers from saddle to summit in 1857. Not only was the kapu system abolished 200 years ago, there's plenty of evidence that shows Maunakea was never so sacred Hawaiians couldn't or didn't utilize its many resources.
I never said science has not helped us so don't put words in my mouth please. I said why worry about stars and planets when we can't even help each other here.
God gave us everything here so there is no reason to look any further. We need to stop pretending that we can leave the firmament. We can't even dig past 8 miles underground and you think looking at stars or planets can help us
Preferred choice, but it is NOT the preferred choice of the Hawaiian people. It's okay to trample on the sacred because you don't recognize it as such because it's not your belief? It makes it nonetheless sacred. Nonetheless important. Protect the sacred, stop the desecration, and for once have compassion. I stand and will forever stand with Mauna Kea and her protectors.
Beliefs are not important just because you believe then. For example, I believe that you should give me $1,000 right now. Why aren't you respecting my beliefs?
@@KipColeman So religion isn't supposed to be respected? Yet if this was a church everyone would be in an uproar. Belief is belief and it's different from person to person, understandable. Disrespecting a religion because it's not your own? I'm sorry that's not something I can get behind.
@@KipColeman I can respect that. I'm a pagan. In my opinion religion should be respected as much as people who dont believe should be. Not everyone believes in the same thing and that's okay. With that being said you dont bulldoze over what people consider sacred just because you don't believe.
i think all islanders should unite as one. Micronesia, Polynesia, Melanesia. Guam, Hawaii, CNMI, Palau, Samoa, every island. We all unite as one and become stronger, not just physically and emotionally but spiritually. Divided by tide, united by pride 🤙🏻💯 CHHHHEEHOOOOOOO
I was born and raised on the Big I, Kailua Kona. I miss it and hawaii will always be my home. Brothers and sisters, you need to turn to the one true God. Polynesians are apart of Israel, scattered. Search truth. gods of trees and stone will never move.
GearZNet .. cool build it anywhere.. get the Hawaiians right. Help the natives stop drinking and smoking, I know the mountain won’t. Teach them true righteousness. Not to be harsh but what’s on the top of the mountain should be least of your worries. I don’t care about the mountain, I care about the people. What about all the Walmart’s and McDonald’s everywhere?
3:20 “asking a fundamental question of where we come from” Sir idk who you think has the same beliefs as people who have a religion that has the foundations of a history telling them where they come from, you scientists need so much information to believe a part of you and it’s not a sacrifice your making but sacral land that is not part of your culture. Very disturbing to be so self centered.
Im on the big island. A lot of this is about race. Try to be a white kid in school here.."Wanna scrap haole?" Unclear my position on this. But there is a helluva lot of racism here.
Why are they building more telescopes in Hawaii where the locals clearly do not want them? Why not replace the destroyed telescope in arasibo Puerto Rico? I live there. Everybody I know would love to see that thing rebuild or replaced
WITH A BAJILLION $$$ YOU COULD REALLOCATE ONE OF THE CURRENT TELESCOPES TO DO THE JOB YOU SAY THE NEW ONE NEEDS TO DO!!! And use the others location where people gladly except your presence to do what it use to do in the old location. OTHERWISE YOU’RE BULLYING!
1) The older telescopes didnt have EIS back then, or they didnt have good EIS altogether. You'd be building on something possibly environmentally unsafe or near actua cultural sites. The TMT site hasgone through better EIS's and cultural surveys. 2) With TMT, they'd decomission 5 of the other telescopes permanently. which is actually and environmentally-sound positive for the mountain. 3) "And use the others location where people gladly except your presence to do what it use to do in the old location." Not sure what you're rambling about here. Canary Islands or other telescope sight. Again the other telescope sights aren't up to standard for EIS's, and the canary islands would have to go through the same 15'ish years of approval it took for TMT to be accepted here.
@@user-pf1fe1sn5k Because you made a whole bunch of claims, I'll respond to them each. 1) I said they will be decomissioned after TMT is built. Right now, they could still be operating, but once TMT is going, they wont be used anymore. 2) The previous telescopes didn't have good EIS's done in the past. Thus, it would be better if they were decomissioned, Genius.. 3) The bigger the telescope, the more you can see. the previous 5 are obviously smaller and in different locations. They're not rebuilding something, they're creating something new. 4) TMT has a lifespan. after 50 years, it will be decomissioned, torn down, and the environment reverted back to normal. 5) you'd rather keep 5 small telescopes with bad EIS's and limited contributions, VERSUS having 1 unique telescope and all the benefits it brings and decommissioning 5 out-of-date, environmentally-unsure telescopes. Im the stupid one?
4:00 this man has the guts to say he is “excited” to cause pain and struggle to the people of Hawaii. You cant help but hate the guy. As much as I am for science and progress and discovery, this is ridiculous. Brought me to tears. Period.
I stood with the protectors . Brought supplies and donated . Its everyone's responsibility . It forced me to look inward about what it means to look white .
@@maelstrom4126 well I've lived a righteous life . I grow and share my food not the same can be said about the generations before me . A lot of white people try and outsmart and dominate .
Agreed, but I also think it's Hawaiians for Hawaii! Building on a sacred site is considered inappropriate elsewhere, so I consider it inappropriate to build anything (be it telescope or mining rig or hotel) on that spot. America has hundreds of thousands of acres set aside as protected sanctuaries for indigenous peoples on the mainland. The Hawaiians should have their mountain. Telescopes can be built elsewhere. If those other spots are less ideal, just make it an 80 meter lens on a non-sacred island to make up any actual difference. My guess is that those pushing for this telescope are simply confident as they're used to getting whatever they want and it would either be more costly or less convenient to locate that telescope elsewhere. I think they mostly want to live in the comfort near an international airport, instead of being shuttled to a less comfortably developed island to perform their scientific work....but maybe that's just me. Oh, and if these Hawaiians really want to make the mountain a bad location for telescopes, they should start setting up giant flood lights to blast into the sky. Good luck getting valuable images of deep space through that!
No, it's not. Manu Hawaiians support TMT and astronomy on Maunakea. Maunakea was never so sacred Hawaiians didn't utilize its many resources. It was leased to ranchers from saddle to summit under the Kingdom. No burials or cultural sites are present where TMT will be built.
Only half of Hawaiians. The other half actually use their brains, aren't manipulated by their emotions and a false revisionist version of history, and care/understand about important astronomy is. You know,...intelligent humans...
13 telescopes have been put up already. Enough is enough. What about recycle. What about upgrade. What about remodeling one that is already there. Just one more was a lie. Leave their mountain be. Respect there wishes. Where is the honor and respect for the land. Where is the respect for the people that say no more. When is it going to stop. The people should have the last say. Go build on your own land. In your own backyard. Kenike
They are removing 3 telescopes to build TMT. Another 2 will be decommissioned in the mid 2020s. The problem is you can "upgrade" telescopes. It's like updating a Toyota Camry to be a tractor-trailer - it just doesn't make sense.
I stand with the indigenous people of Hawaii. There land was forced out of their hands, against their will just like the native Americans. It is their lands and should be placed back in their control. Sadly the government would never do that. Enough is enough. It is their sacred lands, no one else’s. I understand it seems to be the perfect place for the telescope but science needs to embrace spirituality for more answers. It’s time to start looking within, not only outside of ourselves. Put the damn telescope somewhere else! It’s that simple.
![BOWKYLION - วิงวอน (ex-change) [Official MV]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/cLdnZWDaO-w/mqdefault.jpg)
Look at Hawaiian history. We've lost our Hawaiian kingdom, our language was outlawed back in the day, even hula was forbidden in the name of Christianity. What else do we have left? Western style malls in Honolulu? Tourists breaking down the reefs of Hanauma bay? Hawaiian food?
The US has taken everything else. Leave us our land and our people. Leave us in peace.
Do not mistake our Aloha as weakness. We will not back down. Aloha 'aina means love for your land, and you can bet that every Hawaiian feels Aloha 'aina in their heart.
Language and Hula are still alive today. Trust me, only a few (native or local) are actually interested in learning them.
Everybody likes malls, dont deny it.
I can argue that locals and natives do more damage not just to beaches, but other locations as well.
Something tells me you like americanzed hawaiian food, more than ancient-style hawaiian food.
What would we do with said 600 acres of land? How would we live if the Hawaiian kingdom was in effect?
You see the problem with the protesters view. Different tangents of arguments but nothing related tot TMT specifically.
@@calmdownkid Hula's alive. You can't deny outlawing hula was a gross offense.
Language is barely surviving. People only speak it daily in Ni'ihau. If the US didn't outlaw Hawaiian it'd still be widespread and not a dying language.
@@calmdownkid Canary islands want the telescope. Put it there. Mauna Kea matters to Hawaiians. It's sacred land. Leave it alone.
@Michael VR When did i say anything against diversity? When did i say black white or Asian Hawaiians are bad? If you're gonna argue with me, make sure you're arguing something against i've actually said.
@@justiniantbh My Hawaian history is rusty, so i'll take your word that those things absolutely happened. Still, a bad history doesn't mean a bright future can happen for everyone, which in the form of TMT, i've never heard one negative effect or negative prediction that makes sense. Literally, only benefits and the negative effects have already been looked at.
This is so wrong.. We need to stop trespassing on the sacred lands of others. It is so hypocritical.
lets god decide!
What god? There are many. Would you say that if it was you.
@@1991jdclark there no god
@@timjon1982 well I totally agree with you.
TMT has had a 15 year process to build there, from engineering to cultural and local surveys as well as local voting. I wouldn't call it trespassing, especially at this stage.
My definition of trespassing. Someone cutting fenceline to go onto another's personal property to hunt and do damage and call it cultural practice.
Hawaii needs sustainability. Our children need to learn stewardship. All people need to recognize their inherent responsibility to this honua. The further desecration of our natural resources is not what our community needs
A'ole TMT
Cant we build this telescope at the same time try and help the natural resources?? Is there anyway to compromise? Any way we could help the local communities first then build the telescope second?
@@edwardhalmarack7122 i mean there are other places we can build it? Idk
@@edwardhalmarack7122 - They do have 13 other telescopes on the mountain amd they were going to decommission 3 of them. So why cant they build it at any of the other three locations
@@digbick3441 The TMT is being built on a lower, more out of the way slope. The telescopes being decommissioned are higher on the summit, on the peak.
You look down from Mauna Kea in which a mighty , magical forest of birds , trees, medicine and food is completely gone. Bulldozers chained together dragged across the land. Their sacred temple as it were. Not just taken but destroyed. You don't have to be Hawaiian to be horrified.. So much so it changed the weather. The rivers stopped flowing . The birds stopped singing. It is a" Oh my God " "What did they do?" They left nothing. Yes that is you Parker Ranch....Eight acres to sustain one cow. You heartless fools.
And all the sandalwood trees that once laced the slopes of Kohala...even though it was given permission from the Alli at the time ...they had no idea what the ramifications of the white man's actions and intentions would be. .
I am vacation but in my heart I stand for all indigenous people, I especially love Hawaii and spent 25 years loving its beauty, it's culture, it's people, it's legends. My heart aches to be there again,but I am deeply saddened to see what it's becoming through the migration of many people who don't hold the sacred Heart space of true Hawaii. Aloha Aina!
Brian Smith Parker Ranch was given Kamehameha I’s full blessing.
And that’s not the only BS you’re spinning.
Precolonial Hawaiians are responsible for several extinctions. The wild pigs brought by Tahitians wiped out many. Hawaiians also hunted several bird species to extinction for nothing more than their feathers.
The Tahitians are also responsible for the only intentional genocide in Hawaii’s history against the true first peoples, who were the Marquesans.
None of this excuses what followed colonialism but for you to gloss over the reality is not wise and will be used to discredit you.
And neither one of us wants that.
the old Hawaiians let colonizist EUROPEAN MAN come to live there now ur fighting them.
Stefan Pigford it’s vastly more complicated than that. And it was white Americans that stole Hawaii via the forced annexation. That story is also complicated and the two world wars would have gone very differently (WWII in particular) had the US not been the dominant naval force in the Pacific.
Had Imperial Japan, Germany, Spain (highly likely), Italy, or any of the Axis allies been the ones to control the Pacific the world would be very different. And likely not in a good way.
@@shacktime Yes we know how racially tolerant the Japanese and Nazis were in WW2.
I am all for scientific exploration, but not at the expense of native culture. There has to be another way somewhere else.
But TMT will have no effect on native culture. It's not like banning hula or banning the native language.
@@calmdownkid Mauna Kea is sacred to Native Hawaiians. Putting another telescope atop the most sacred mountain IS an expense to the native culture of Hawai'i.
@@jordikeoni How is it an "expense" to the native culture of hawaii? What if I told you, TMT will have no effect on native culture, and that the culture will still be there after it's built?
Yeah no, science is more important than religion. It doesn't matter if it is a """"pure"""" indigenous religion, all religion is bullshit, and it shouldn't be allowed to interfere with science and progress.
Most Hawaiians aren't even a part of their old religion. And building a telescope won't destroy their way of life, which is highly Westernized to begin with.
I didn’t know that Hawaii and Australia are connected through Captain Cook. Australia is also currently going through a national debate about the sacred land of Uluru. It’s a sacred place to the Aboriginal people and yet tourists still want to climb and mistreat the area.
False equivalence. This is for a telescope. Not tourism. Do you know the difference?
@@djstrongarmgmail they are both sacred places for indigenous people, both being desecrated by outsiders. It doesn’t matter the means of the desecration.
@@coasterblocks3420 Looking pretty pale, there, bogan. Betting your ancestors came from somewhere else, too.
@@coasterblocks3420 "desecration" 😆 You clown. Over half the people involved in the telescope and scientific research on the telescope are brown skinned, native Hawaiians. Hawaii was and has always been a melting pot for ALL peoples of Earth. You think ancient Hawaiians just sprung up out of the ground, and didn't come from Tahiti...raping and pillaging their way through the pacific ocean? Ok xenophobe. Do some actual research before you spout off and parrot idiotic nonsense and antiscience rhetoric.
@@coasterblocks3420walking the land isn’t desecration if you’re not leaving trash and other things there.
As a frequent visitor who is learning the history of Hawaii, I am appalled and ashamed of the greed and unquestionable illegal actions of the US in the takeover of Hawaii.
These sacred islands are the home and rightful possessions of the Hawaiin people, this TMT decision, and ALL other decisions about the future of Hawaii, should be decided by Hawaiians.
The Hawaiian Kingdom was a multiethnic and multinational country. It was constructed with the great help of Westerners. Hawaiian Kings intentionally blended western religious, education, political, economic and military systems with polynesian traditions. The Hawaiian Kingdom was overthrown by a coup of wealthy and powerful haole who were citizens, royal subjects, community members, tax payers and voters with their own ohana, not the United States. The Queen was overthrown by a homegrown revolution, which was unfortunate. If you want to see a U.S. military invasion and occupation, then look at Haiti in 1915.
Nobody has exclusive control of the land based on ethnicity. Hawai'i is a pluralistic community and a democracy. Everyone's voice matters. Polls show that a majority of the state population favor TMT and it even enjoyed solid support from the kanaka for a long time.
@@sunnysied713
Why do you think people actually want to hear your 'I'm white, love science, therefore I can take your land"? They view you as an idiot.
@@mikeNM08 Auwe, so everybody's voice doesn't matter? Is Hawai'i supposed to be ruled by one ethnic, religious group? Do you want the land to be controlled by genealogy? Sorry, no can do, boss. We done with the mo'i, ali'i, konohiki and kahuna. We gotta put more mileage between ourselves and the past. The feudal caste system and kapu needs to stay in the rear view mirror - preferably with a rising fireball. Lol. Everyone's gotta voice. The TMT is a kanaka, local, state, national and international issue. Obviously, everyone's voice matters.
@@sunnysied713
Cuz science, and cuz I'm white american and atheist. Now gives me your land. Says Sunny
@@sunnysied713 Ignorant people like you are whats wrong with society, walking trash you all basically are.
Protectors Not Protestors....Get it right!
Protectrs of ignorance!
@@MaQuGo119 haole your the definition of ignorance stay out of our islands
The way Hawaiian women dance makes me so emotional , I don’t know why. I cry
Our culture is in the dance, it’s our ancestors perpetuated in the hula.
Bc it is like looking at nature: the ocean waves and swells; the dawning over the mountain summits; waterfalls; wind caressing the laua’e (fern) plants; beautiful birds frolicking; a child smile that is only for you.
It touches inside. Words need not be uttered to describe the aforementioned as it is narrated through dance. Watching it touches inside. Nahenahe 🌺
I know right!😢
This is about drawing a line and stopping the abuse. Every ounce of this state is being taken advantage including the people. It is a shame that science is being blocked and caught in the middle of this. This is a nation rehabilitating and rebuilding.
Ua Mau ke Ea o ka ʻĀina i ka Pono
Lost InMaui well
Said
This is about racist, xenophobic cowards, taking aim at the one venue they know they won't be removed at gunpoint...science. Their attack may not be against science...but they're still using the scientific community to make their point. A misguided, delusional, incorrect stance on history, but that's their point. You don't see these cowards protesting any new resorts or hotels. You dont see these fools volunteer to protect the heiaus and parks. Why? Because only cowards bring the fight to a bunch of science nerds. Way to show the world that brave Kamehameha spirit.
The dogon and native Hawaiians never needed a telescope wrap your scientific mind around that🌟
And yet they understood the origins of the Universe.
The knowledge was hidden for a time.
It did not go away.
@@patriciastewart2537 we are made of star dust👍
Lmfao they had and have no idea the true origins of the universe. Fairy tales. Reality is knocking.
@@Sumo-san Within "fairy tales" there are truths. And if you listened to the video what little clip there was pertaining to how it all began you could hear what it is they in fact did know!
What's the point of your statement? That's like saying a the sentinelese dont need electricity. It's just ambiguous.
Were not in ancient hawaii and as a local, I can assure you 99.99% of natives cant live like ancient hawaii or let alone live off the grid.
Theres room for tmt in this era. For use by locals, scientists, economic development, jobs, and so on
Mauna Kea is also a critical part of the ceded lands trust that the State of Hawaiʻi must protect and preserve for future generations, pursuant to its kuleana as a trustee.
Despite four state audits and generations of Native Hawaiians expressing concern about the threats to Mauna Kea, the state and the University of Hawaiʻi have continuously neglected their legal duties to adequately manage the mountain. Instead, they have prioritized astronomical development at the expense of properly caring for Mauna Kea’s natural and cultural resources.
As a result, the state and UH have failed as trustees and stewards of this beloved and sacred place. Even the governor and the university president have both publicly admitted to failing to meet their management responsibilities.
OHA has long advocated for improved stewardship of the mauna and beginning in 2015 engaged the state and UH in a nearly two-year mediated process to resolve the mismanagement of Mauna Kea. Ultimately, this effort was not successful.
Left with no other recourse, OHA filed a lawsuit in 2017 to advocate on behalf of the Native Hawaiian people to hold the state and UH accountable for its longstanding and well-documented mismanagement of Mauna Kea.
Among other things, OHA’s complaint requests the court to order the state fulfill its trust obligations relating to Mauna Kea and to terminate UH’s general lease for the mountain for breach of the lease’s terms.
This is not about any one telescope. This lawsuit is about addressing the state and the university failing to manage the entire mountain for nearly half a century. Don't forget, Mauna Kea was put into trust for the Native Hawaiians when Hawaii was taken by the United States!
The TMT EIS states the following:
"The operation of the Project, in accordance with the CMP and other applicable rules, regulations, and requirements, will not result in a significant adverse impact."
The Supreme Court of Hawaii ruled that
"(1) the TMT will not cause substantial adverse impact to existing plants, aquatic life and wildlife, cultural, historic, and archaeological sites, minerals, recreational sites, geologic sites, scenic areas, ecologically significant areas, and watersheds, (2) mitigation measures of restoring the abandoned Poliʻahu Road and
decommissioning five telescopes will be adopted, and (3) other measures to lessen the impacts of the TMT will be adopted... the TMT will not have a substantial adverse impact to existing natural resources within the surrounding area, community, or region"
The Supreme Court of Hawaii affirmed the Conservation District Use Permit for TMT. They agreed with BLNR's analysis that the observatory will not have a substantial adverse impact to the environment, ecology and community.
Previous state audits reported a _cumulative_ negative impact for maunakea management. However, there weren't any major jaw-dropping, blockbuster, show-stopping infractions/events that caused great environmental and ecological damage. They were all _minor._ Collectively, there were a lot of things to fix. Those scopes weren't environmental disasters, like the protesters falsely claim.
The Mauna Kea Management Plan has addressed and mitigated many of the action items reported in earlier state audits from a regulation, process and operation perspective. Follow-up state audits have shown that Mauna Kea Management has acted in good faith, implemented many corrective actions and greatly improved their management. TMT is the first telescope that is being implemented with the new set of rules and it's a model go-forward plan for future telescope.
The _Follow-Up Audit of the Management of Mauna Kea and the Mauna Kea Science Reserve (14-07) states, "we found that UH and DLNR have made progress on implementing many of our previous major recommendations but that some issues remain unresolved." This audit generated 8 recommendations for improvement.
The _Follow-Up on Recommendations from Report No. 14-07, Follow-Up Audit of the Management of Mauna Kea and
the Mauna Kea Science Reserve (17-06)_ states, "We found that UH and
DLNR have partially implemented four of the recommendations. Three
recommendations remain open, and one is inapplicable at this time."
All the recommendations aren't equally important. Some are more so than others. There were 8 recommendations dealing with administrative rules (1 item), tour operators (2 items), _action items against the Comprehensive Management Plan🚩_ (1 item), lease/sub-leases (3 items) and observatory permit templates (1 item). The most important recommendation was Recommendation #4.
Recommended 4 dealt with actions for the Mauna Kea Comprehensive Management Plan. The University of Hawaii implemented *20 of the 25* total CMP management actions. It was partially implemented and *80% complete.*🌟🌟🌟🌟⭐
Like I said, follow-up state audits were conducted and confirmed strong improvement in maunakea management. It shows accountability, responsibility and compliance. That's great progress!
"the meeting point between those two realms" , really blew my mind. Everything about the people and THEIR land, is so spiritual and beautiful. And "intense darkness, penetrating & fathomless" in the oral history of the beginning......Love that.
Was just on the Big Island recently. Beautiful people. Absolute shame what has happened and is continuing to happen to their culture. Textbook protest. I hope they finally get the respect they deserve.
Tmt sucks
Darren Lesinski you can thank the asshole of a governor for that it’s Hawaii’s fault for voting that dumb shit into office he is no leader of our state just out looking to fill his bank account!
You think that illegally blocking a telescope should earn respect? What if someone would not let you into your own house (and the police did nothing) would that make you respect them?
starhit ikr! I’m against TNT and all, but most these guys on Mauna Kea right now voted for him simply cuz he’s a dem. Most dems are stupid too
@@paulshipley6024 but what if you got that house illegally, should you be respected?
Well, this isn't the first time a land was fucked over. Steamboat, Colorado is a tourist town, but recently it gained a lot of more popularity and major changes happened. When I lived there in the summer and the winter it would be nice and peaceful, not too overcrowded, but last winter it was beyond crowded and they added this weird slide on the mountain, so now you have a big tourist thing in the middle of the bottom of the mountain that goes up it and it just takes away the natural beauty. I love Steamboat, Colorado, but don't take away the natural beauty of nature.
Complete false equivalence. This isnt for tourists. Not sure if you're aware of that little fact.
This is a lot worse though
The fact that a lot of people don't believe in global warming but yet they continue to seek and destroy the purity of the lands, I saw a sign once that said "Our childrens future over profit" this is an example. I wasn't aware that they already have did she say "13 telescopes" how many more do they really need, who or what are they trying to find !! Wow it's amazing how we as humans have no respect of others beliefs & heritage this truly brakes my heart 💔and soul. Hawaii is such a beautiful and spiritual place, it's one of the last (and really👂hearing the Hawaiians speak & sing🎶the language is so pretty and soothing) I respect what they are doing and wish that I could be there along side them and support to protect the lands. Love and blessings from Chicago!
Mahaaalo! Lots of Aloha to you and your Ohana in Chicago 🙌🏔🤙❤
This has nothing to do with climate change because the plans made sure the TMT would not hurt the local environment
Thank you
It’s so important to go back and keep the stories,beliefs,foods and customs especially the old way of building the houses, teach the next generations so they can survive.
The least NBC could’ve done was to get a narrator that could say the Hawaiian words properly.
Hawaii cannot be COLLATERAL DAMAGE....for rich and greedy people.....who are buying up these islands for their own purposes..God Bless the Hawaiian people and Hawaii...
We the people voted our city counsel our mayor our governor who all had Hawaiian bloodline and had big say in these project like overdeveloped our precious ag lands for housing when there is no more room more n more immigrants coming for jobs n housing no point fingaz when our own people is selling out das da real deal collateral damage shit our own people has slot to do with all this Mayham we build n build all over our sacred land not only on da mauna if it's gonna affect there pocket book no protest no flag waiving no why cause we all gota work they go up da mauna to protest then go back down the mauna to develope choke sacred lands ahhh Hollywood coyotes all look good on tv
Give this message to those how work at the telescopes , to those who want the TMT , and those who want to desacralise more sacred land ...
This land is not yours, you have no right to take it.
It is sacred, let the native people keep their land.
Go somewhere else with all those telescopes , stop taking what is not yours .
What if the people working at the telescopes are 'native'?
@@calmdownkid Then they should be the first to refuse to continue harming the land . Yes the job probably pays well, but being respectful towards the land and their culture , themselves, seems more important .
@@louverousse9023
1) They're not harming the land as TMT as an entirety has limited and minimal effects on the environment. No wells, piping to direct waste to a treatment plan, etc. You can look up the rest yourself.
2) 'respectful to the land' - see above
3) 'respectful to the culture' - TMT site is not built on any temple and no evidence found in it's immediate surroundings.
4) 'respectful to themselves' - Working a labor-type day to day to put food on the able, to me, is the ultimate form of self-respect. giving up your leisures to do something repetitive.
If you look at it as a case-by-case individual perspective, the people protesting either fit into the following categories. Doing it for publicity, doing it to collect benefits or get paid off, currently collecting benefits such as welfare; all of which dont fit into my definition of self-respect. Very few protesting are real activists who participate regularly in development hearings.
@@calmdownkid it is like a group of people decide that your backyard is the coveted space to build something.
Don't you think you have a say?
So if you say yes that is on you.
If you say no! That should be good enough.
Go somewhere else...
@@doreengordon1475 you're comparing personal property to 5% of an entire mountain dedicated to educational use. The rest is for cultural use. Both are incomparable
Now, on a personal level. If they decide my backyard is best location for TMT, and they pay me the 1mil/year rent, I'd buy 4 different properties a year.
Again, I dont see the point you're trying to make.
You all need to see Lanakila putting a halt to the groundbreaking ceremony back in 2014. "You wanna look up into the Sky?? You cant even take care of this place!!"
Oh you mean that aggro clown who is both a charlatan and a fraud? That same guy who didn't bother to vote? Got it. Yeah, that WAS sad to see. It always pains me to see people who didn't bother to educate themselves whine and cry about things they don't understand...
@@djstrongarmgmail Trust me he understands WAY more than you I know for a fact. Where do you get your info from? Just bullshit flying out your ass it seems like.
@@ikaikaxkeahi Trust an uneducated, ignorant, dishonest, racist, welfare sucking, roach? Why would anyone in their right mind with an education do such a thing? My information? Oh, you know,...here and there. Born on the Islands, thankfully raised and educated somewhere else NOT the islands. I went to college. Oh, and I own property on two islands, so I've spent over 48 years there watching, and learning what a horrible step backwards angry, out of control, frauds like that punk bitch are to the future of the Islands. What would I know,...RIGHT!?
That’s why they look to the sky, they’ve burned down every other plan our creators had for its earthlings...”I’m definitely suffering PTSD from the illegal occupation of the USA”. Stay strong Sistah!!!
You have my full support! I wish you guys all the best of luck!! Respect to your Island, your culture, and your religion GIVE THEM HELL - From Utah
And from North Carolina, I wish you all the luck and support.
Mahalo🤙🏽
Agreed! ~from an aspiring native historian :3
So, you sit in a landlocked state and are fed lies by revisionist, racist, xenophobes? How very mormon of you.
Support from earth!
I support the scientists. These are the typical examples of the faith vs. science. It happened in the past in Europe, Asia, and it’s happening now.
It is more important to find out if we are alone in this planet than feelings of a handful number of people.
bro, you did not educate yourself before wrighting thing. it isn't religion vs science. it's culture vs desecration. we support what the telescope can do, but not how it would be built. looking at a religious view though (not really religious but simply kapu) the top of the mountain is seen as wao akua. or the realm of god. only the high chiefs and priest could enter that part of the moutain. the mountain itself is home to life that can be found no where else in the world, no where else in hawai'i and no where else on the big island. EVERY TELESCOPE HAS BEEN SAID to be the last one...and now they want a bigger one. 60 yeeears they have done this. there was also a mercury spill which had to be cleaned up as well as 13 tons of trash cleaned up by a native hawaiian group (I forgot which one) and the serria club.
the bones of our chiefs...ARE BURIED THERE. with the construction of the other telescopes...BONES HAVE BEEN FORCIBLY REMOVED. and what happened to them? we don't know....
the bones of a chief is the most sacred in hawai'i. burials are forbidden to disturb under Hawai'i law...and yet why are they doing it in mauna kea. it's not right. the US government in response to the apology resolution made it so that hawaiians have the right to protect our culture and identy and knowledge.
this is what we are trying to do. even then, you don't need to be religious to pray on the mountain. you don't need to follow the kapu of our elders to pray and offer to the mountain. a large amount of protectors are christians or have no religion. this isn't religion vs science, or culture vs science. this is the kanaka maoli identity fighting desecration.
mahalo for reading and understanding what we are fighting for
Sounds like the problem is not really the telescope but the overall relation with the native Hawaiians. Which is very unfortunate because it means the problem won't be resolved any time soon.
Yeah, these people don't care about the mountain. It's a sovereignty issue.
It's a high profile "win" for their movment if they block TMT, which is why they are likely fighting it instead of, say, fighting to restore species habitat elsewhere on the Islands (Hawaii has suffered more species loss than pretty much anywhere else). Sadly, if they do "win", a small patch of dirt won't host a telescope, and students will lose a million dollars a year the TMT plans to put into STEM via the THINK fund ("The Hawaii Island New Knowledge" fund), not to mention losing great jobs that feed the economy on the Big Island. That energy could have gone into something useful like habitat preservation. There are many more native Hawaiians who support TMT than are shown in the video - they are the majority - and this whole thing has gone through an exhaustive process, especially with respect to ensuring appropriate site use. See tmt.org for more information. Hawaii's reputation for upholding the rule of law will also be hurt as it will be clear that the court rulings were not respected. I am dubious about the intentions of Jason Momoa, seen in the video, given how he has the need to rehabilitate his image after his 2011 ComicCon comments about women hit the fan in 2017, or might simply benefit from the publicity, though writing "No TMT" on his bare chest and glowering at the camera is ridiculous, not to mention his posed "arrest" shots recently (he wasn't arrested and it was just for photos). It's also worth noting that one of the leaders, Pisciotta, is a Hawaiian who used to work as a telescope assistant on the mountain for twelve years. Clearly she didn't think telescopes up there were a bad idea when she took the job, but rather than fixing things with respect to site usage - and there have been many efforts to do that since she quit in 2011 - she still wants to shut it all down. Now she's "found religion" and thinks having any telescopes up there harms cultural practises. Also, why is she shedding tears at elders being arrested when she is the one encouraging them to be arrested for the cause?
@@MN16304 you're way off bruh
Maybe they can realise that this sacred ground could also be used to look into places never seen before. Surely they can do this alongside the natives and respect the sacred mountain.
@@edwardhalmarack7122 maybe you should realise that this mountain is sacred to the native culture of hawaii? And keeping it culturally sacred is important for the future generations of native Hawaiians and pasifika people in general. You can replace a telescope elsewhere but you can't replace someone's sacred land.
1:52 Correction: TMT is NOT being built on the summit. Know the facts.
It will, bozo.
No, it will not. The existing telescopes are near the summit of Maunakea. The site of TMT is to be located on a lava plain BELOW the summit. www.maunakeaandtmt.org/get-the-facts/
M N sorry my braddah looks like it will go to the Canary Islands,us Hawaiians ain’t going no where, Kū Kia’i Mauna!
@@Ryanm96744 The Canary Islands already have activists not wanting it there, and I doubt the TMT is willing to go through all this strife again. I think they're here for the long haul.
So are we
Protect what is sacred to you. Praying for Mauna Kea
The telescope is an instrument of wisdom, knowledge, curiosity and progression of humanity. It is sad that people that have seafairing ancestors that used the constellation of stars to navigate and explore the vast ocean would oppose the construction.
@@vincedhilandulay7798 build it elsewhere
@@808fishman8 No, it is one the best spot for a telescope.
@@vincedhilandulay7798 the folks in canary islands ACTUALLY want it. we oppose construction because this type of industrialization been proven to be damaging and non beneficial in the ʻong run. this telescope is completely unnecessary
@@vincedhilandulay7798 build it in Chile. They got dry air and elevations higher than Mauna Kea. Screw that telescope.
You can replace a telescope elsewhere but you can't replace native land
You can replace fairy tells ......
@@iluvrocknrap you can also replace your ignorance
@@Daywalker685 or your superstition
To be clear:
1. The Theory of "Evolution (as proposed in Charles Darwin's book: 'On the Origin of Species by Means of Natural Selection or the Preservation of the Favored Races in the Struggle for Life')" is the Racism/White supremacy ideology (and the theory is false).
2. French biologist Louis Pasteur began exposing the Theory of Evolution to be false several years after the publication of Darwin's book.
3. The Theory of Evolution has no Formula (characteristic of theories without substance in fact, truth or law).
4. There is no gene in the entire genome spectrum to account for the claim of genetic evolution.
5. There are no facts or evidence to prove or support the claim that organisms change into other organisms of a more complex nature through any "unguided" or random "process".
6. The value placed on the Theory of Evolution has been connected to it's claim (a false claim) that so-called White people are "Evolved" beyond so-called non-White people through the "process of Evolution" (centered around the "stronger" dominating, mistreating or wiping-out the "weaker" etc. including the idea that the more so-called non-White the people, the closer to the "ape-man" etc.).
7. Science means Knowledge. Knowledge is to Observe, Learn and Respect. Observe is to look and listen. Learn is to find facts or find answers. Respect is to consider or think about the truth.
@@The.Adept.Chamber and your point is?
Fight for your Sovereignty and a Free & Independent Hawaiian Kingdom. Regain your Country, Culture, History, Language, Traditions and Customs. Remember who you are.. You are not part of North America, you are part of Polynesia. Stand Proud!
The telescope is an instrument of wisdom, knowledge, curiosity and progression of humanity. It is sad that people that have seafairing ancestors that used the constellation of stars to navigate and explore the vast ocean would oppose the construction.
@@vincedhilandulay7798 No one opposes the advancement of Knowledge in today's world, but we must always do it by Respecting All the different Cultures that currently inhabit our Planet. Hawaii is Not part of the Continental United States, the Hawaiian Arcipelago is a chain of Islands that were Illegally Annexed by the Americans in 1898. The Advancement of Mankind has always been made at the Expense of the Indigenous, African and Asian people by White Europeans. Where was the so called civilized man when they discovered people who were completely different to themselves? Unfortunately people of Color have always been deemed by European Conquerors as Savage and Unintelligent. So keep your Kind words in the name of Progression for Humanity, which by the way is exactly the same tactics used by Europeans who were Curious in their Conquest to Colonize the World. Respect the Native people of Hawaii and their wishes. The people Native to the land are who decide what is considered Sacred to their people and Not the United States Government who currently Illegally occupies the Kingdom of Hawaii! TMT can go with their backup site and build the Telescope on one of Spain's Canary Islands where the people welcome the construction.
@@Roberto-Antonio ok nerd
@@vincedhilandulay7798 Based on your reply, it's clear you don't have the mental dexterity to give an Intelligent reply... Stay out of the kitchen if you can't handle the heat! 🔥
@@Roberto-Antonio All you have is all you are. A walking, racist platitude, filled with a soft shell of ignorance of actual history and the beautiful blending of cultures that makes Hawaii what it is. All racists like yourself ignore history and the conquests of people of color, like the Moors, the Mongolians, the Persians, and the Tahitians themselves. It seems to be a commonality between you people. Like you're reading a script.
Its beautiful how we romanticize our lands. This island was first populated by Polynesians merely when the byzantine empire was still a thing, and how much Europe has changed since. Populations shift, sacred places get desecrated in the name of progress, and then forgotten. Seven or nine Troys built on top of each other, surviving memory thanks to one story ages old, layers beneath layers built under Budapest since Roman times, sacred caves/natural catacombs that meant everything for entire groups of people now gone, some gutted for museums, others destroyed by nature's only predictable law of constant change.
This brought tears to my eyes. 😢 I hope they find somewhere else to build.
Is it difficult being run by your emotions? I haven't known what that feels like since I was 6 or 7. Since then, this pesky thing called a "brain" (did I spell that right?) keeps getting in the way of things like this...
The Other Dave Lmao go fuck yourself you edgy bitch. We don’t need another fancy telescope we have actual problems here on Earth
@@idrislamont1064 Lmao, calm fuckin down. For astronomical purposes that place is perfect for light gaining.
@@DinoZavrus 😂 I don’t even remember what that was responding to whoever it was deleted it. I still think we should respect sacred lands though.
@@idrislamont1064 KK
Our HAWAII Brother & Sisters yous are the Oceans you's are the land,you's are the Ngahere,you's are E- tangata Etu E TANGATA HONOR HONOR HUMBLE KIND HEARTED I SALUTE 🙌🙌 🙌🙌 🙌🙌 🙌🙌 🙌 FROM AOTEAROA NZ 🌳🌳🌳🌈🌈🌈🌈🌈🌏👈
A’ole TMT!!
Ku Kia’i Mauna🤙🏽
Sea dreams 🤙🏽
IMUA TMT!!
Hiki ke ulu aʻe. 🤙
Yeah more Hawaiian people
Who cares. All these idiots protesting need to go back to work and pay their mortgage and feed their family.
David Armstrong Kū kiaʻi Mauna! Aʻole TMT
Peace, Aloha and Justice.
If Aquaman (Jason Momoa) is with them, then it's a good cause.
I think he stayed for a day then went back to the mainland.
That makes absolutely sense (or is it a joke)?
@@paulshipley6024 Not a joke. th-cam.com/video/A2w8TWpSfgQ/w-d-xo.html
He's got a great heart....and little to no brains. And if you can just jump on board with an agenda without caring about the validity or truth to that agendas ends...that proves just how much of a useful idiot you are. Try thinking with your head and not your heart. Facts not feelings.
@@grimfryggdrasil6098 absolutely not. If anything, fuckheads like you will make me louder and work even harder to help educate the world and show how backwards and disgusting you people truly are.
Aloha. All the islands of Hawaii are sacred, every square inch. Every step you take is on sacred land so be careful an respect what’s your an not yours. This whole earth is sacred. With that mind frame now we can all respect each other’s space . Aloha
What makes something sacred?
NO its not. Its just land.
This research has led me to some conclusions. First, there are indeed places on Mauna Kea that are sacred. These are places where Hawaiians have continuously participated in traditional and customary practices; so there are unquestionably specific geo-cultural sites on Mauna Kea that are protected, and the practices that are associated with these sites meet all the defining criteria of being traditional and customary.
But the extension of sacredness to the entire mountain and the air column above it gives rise to questions about how much cultural validation there is for the idea that this pre-empts any and all other uses of the mountain.
I found no documentation indicating that Mauna Kea, as a whole, is sacred. I could not find any reference to any blanket of sacredness over the entire mountain and the air column in any of the usual sources of validation - not even in the Kumulipo Hawaiian creation-origin chant, or in the writings of Native Hawaiian historians of the 19th century like Samuel Kamakau, David Malo, John Papa ‘I‘i and Kepelino.
Beyond the blanket-of-sacredness claim, there is nothing else on record to suggest any validated sacred places would be disturbed by the construction or operation of the TMT.
Validated sacred places include the peaks of Pu‘u o Kūkahau‘ula, Pu‘u Poli‘ahu and Pu‘u Lilinoe, Lake Waiau, and various heiau (temples), ‘ahu (altars), ana (caves), lua kā ko‘i (quarries), and ilina (burials).
In fact, I believe the decision about the TMT’s location was made to ensure that no sacred site was violated, nor access to any sacred site impeded. The telescope was also sited below the summit to minimize its visual obtrusiveness.
...
“The TMT presents probably the greatest opportunity - the greatest cultural opportunity, religious opportunity - that we will ever have to do the one thing that is at the center of every cultural group. That is, search for the ancestors. Our story of creation begins with the night of Pō, with the darkness. I’m assuming that at some point in time, with projects like the TMT, we will actually be able to go back and find the Night of Pō. I cannot think of anything more significant than that.”
-Peter Apo, Office of Hawaiian Affairs trustee
Take it easy with all those facts and logic, bro. These silly, sad, uneducated fools don't like it when people know more than them. So, it's an everyday struggle for them...
I’m against it and Mauna Kea is scared and it connects to where my people and ancestors that I come from and we Hawaiians know that Mauna Kea is Sacred and Hawaii is my home and I say give us back Mauna Kea and we will destroy the telescope and we never needed the telescope we knew how to Navigate without the telescope and I’m an Ali’i and so my kingdom is still alive and I’m an Ali’i as well and I wanna just go up on Mauna Kea and visit my people as well and my seven time grandfather is Kamehameha 1 and so Mauna Kea is Sacred and I’m against the telescope so I would destroy the telescope
We’re not going anywhere....we are mauna kea......
@@navysealblackwater you really are everywhere you little shit
Alma Reyes Just ignore Burns. He apparently is someone with nothing to say that is just looking to get a rise out of people.
@@kiszmyass9638 it's just upsetting how blind people can be. He must really think the government gives a fuck about him. You right though pardon my foul language 💯
@@navysealblackwater lmao just stay away from our islands before you get delt with you fawking haole
The protesters say they own the mountain so where is the deed? If you own something you call the cops and have them removed. What are we missing? The TMT process, permits, surveys and surveys of the surveys has been going since 2006 and NOW you don't like it? No laws have been broken. In fact if governor Ige does not allow the construction HE could be sued. So much drama of an easily fixed problem. If the protesters want to be taken seriously they need to explain their side in a unemotional fact-based way. Every time I hear the "you wouldn't understand" response I think I'm arguing with a teenage girl.
Mason Matthews see haole’s like you are ignorant and uneducated. The kingdom of Hawaii is an occupied nation..we did not ask to be apart of the United States of terrorists, they nurseries thousands of our people for money and you think we had deeds...WTF!!! Why would we need deeds for lands that are lands that belong to the Hawaiian people? So when we say you wouldn’t understand, we mean you wouldn’t understand , you can’t fathom the anger and frustration we Hawaiian people feel
@@gunplabuildersunitedusa No, it's not an illegally occupied nation. You wouldn't understand.
Sunny Sied I wouldn’t understand? So your saying that the Hawaiian people wanted to be apart of the US?? Ha ha ha what a joke!!! You know how many Hawaiian people where slaughters by the hands of the terrorist that is the US, only you haoles would believe that we wanted to be slaves to the US
@@gunplabuildersunitedusa Nope, I'm saying there was no illegal occupation of the Hawaiian Kingdom. It got overthrown by an internal, homegrown coup of wealthy and powerful haole (who were citizens and royal subjects). There was no military invasion or occupation. Queen Liliuokalani handed the keys to the Kingdom without a fight. She abandoned her kuleana and didn't protect the nation, which was her constitutional duty. When you surrender, that's the end of the ballgame. She surrendered. She thought President Cleveland was gonna bail her out and do her work for her. Well, Restoration Day 2.0 didn't happen. Every country has to defend their sovereignty. The Hawaiian Kingdom couldn't defend itself from the French, British or its own citizens. There was no American invasion. If you want a U.S. military invasion, then look at Haiti, which was a lengthy and bloody war campaign. The Honolulu Riflemen took the Kingdom like it was a walk on the beach.
Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe.
Albert Einstein.
I support the protectors. Why is it necessary to build a new observatory? There are 13 observatory sites already built on Mauna Kea. UC Berkeley closed their observatory a couple years ago leaving 12 operational observatories. Why not just convert/modify the UC Berkeley closed observatory to a 30 meter telescope? Respectfully, BT Out!
Hawaii just shouldn't be a part of the US. It should be a independent country
@@monke6654 and China would've just taken it by force. Better US than China.
There's already the Hubble telescope up in space
stay strong & continue to rise together our unity as one strengthens those standing up many prayers to brothers and sisters
I really hope that they can come to some sort of agreement, and quickly. Respecting a people's heritage is most important, but so is the knowledge and understanding that comes from the science being conducted in that very unique place. It is the greatest location for celestial observations on Earth. It is also the Hawaiian people's holy ground.
@Dr Moriarty also you too please consort and find sources and understand what hawaiians are trying to do here as well look at both sides
So let me ask this question when do the actions justify the means. I love science and promoting discovery that’s the way of evolution but if we sacrifice our heritage and the core foundation that make us people who will be in the end. Answer me that
We took Native American lands from the native Americans now from natives of Hawaii where does it end?. How long will we keep saying in the name of science when really it’s all for selfishness and greed an money an power.
I ask you this find a way to build this monster and disgusting thing that doesn’t compromise the natives of Hawaii or their cultures.
@Dr Moriarty
To be clear:
According to National and International law, Government's oath is to act according to the rule of law; and protection of the people's rights. Human rights violations are war crimes (in this instance for Mauna Kea); regarding the Native Tennant Rights with the people and sacred lands.
@@miguellugo9816
To be clear:
1. The Theory of "Evolution (as proposed in Charles Darwin's book: 'On the Origin of Species by Means of Natural Selection or the Preservation of the Favored Races in the Struggle for Life')" is the Racism/White supremacy ideology (and the theory is false).
2. French biologist Louis Pasteur began exposing the Theory of Evolution to be false several years after the publication of Darwin's book.
3. The Theory of Evolution has no Formula (characteristic of theories without substance in fact, truth or law).
4. There is no gene in the entire genome spectrum to account for the claim of genetic evolution.
5. There are no facts or evidence to prove or support the claim that organisms change into other organisms of a more complex nature through any "unguided" or random "process".
6. The value placed on the Theory of Evolution has been connected to it's claim (a false claim) that so-called White people are "Evolved" beyond so-called non-White people through the "process of Evolution" (centered around the "stronger" dominating, mistreating or wiping-out the "weaker" etc. including the idea that the more so-called non-White the people, the closer to the "ape-man" etc.).
7. Science means Knowledge. Knowledge is to Observe, Learn and Respect. Observe is to look and listen. Learn is to find facts or find answers. Respect is to consider or think about the truth.
Adept so rule of law is trampling on a heritage of a people who are often mistreated and cast aside because they are not a certain color or from a certain place?
This is their home their land and yet it’s being taken away from them.
Our goverment is meant to protect the people not support private interests. The islands have been exploited so much it is a wonderous telescope with amazing capability but it does not belong there. We are in solidarty with the protectors of Mauna Kea
This is a complex issue. The desecration of Hawaiian culture, lands, wildlife, air and especially our pristine water are rivals with the corporate American way of life ( which is failing, btw) is what is included in OUR preservation of the Hawaiian resistance of TMT. Not science not progress but preserving our culture and respect of land and people 🕊.
So how is the TMT threatening any of this?
@@sunnysied713
So how is not having Mauna Kai the end of science?
all the people who aren’t from Hawai’i don’t know much about our history, you guys don’t learn this in your text books, you guys learn about a man who stole America or the people who took others land, but they don’t say who took Hawaiian lands, how they held a gun to our last king, took OUR queen as prisoner & so so much more.
Ancient Hawaiians were explorers and so were many of their demigods. Isn’t there a good chance they would have enjoyed exploring the universe?
They were known for their interest in the sky. Also, the telescope is being built, don't worry.
of course. but that’s not the point. the land up on the mountains are very sacred to our people. we’re not even allowed to go up there in the first place. it is only meant for kings, queens, and our gods. and it’s also the fact that they already built 13 telescopes up there. they keep promising us it is the last then next you know they build another one. see it’s not that we’re against science, we’re against the disrespect on our indigenous people and land. too much injustices have already happened to hawaii. first the US illegally took our land and now they can’t even respect it. it really does hurt us all and we have had enough.
@@edwardandmichaelsbiggestfa1967 that’s a new perspective. Thank you.
@@edwardandmichaelsbiggestfa1967 protesting against the us government in this instance is like throwing a pebble at a giant steel wall and expecting the wall to fall down..good luck i guess...
@@mr.OldNews even the government knows what they did was wrong. all we got was a sorry. sooner or later we’ll get at least something back. like cheaper rent or just them respecting our indeginous land instead of building unwanted and unneeded things. that’s all we ask
Too many words. And we don't clean up the garbage left behind. Or build up the homeless. No one's going to understand until you open your eye. Lol. That's my problem with a multi million dollar project no matter what it is.
My problem is they don't get the people's consent. In a city it's fine, but in a rural place like this it's awful.
Brother I hear and understand and support your words... but this could be a platform to get all things you need and want
@@HawkinaBox There was a vote for TMT locally here on the big island and it gained a high acceptance in the poll
@@HawkinaBox more lies you chose yo shove down your throat.
Sounds more like a humanity problem rather than a multi-million dollar project’s problem.
As someone who isn’t kanaka and has lived in Hawai’i the last several years and has seen what’s going on in places like Puerto Rico as well, the issue is that most of the time actual Hawaiians (not transplants) aren’t the ones who the ones in charge of important leadership positions to not only stop things like this from happening but also putting in systems that prioritise the preservation of Hawaiian culture along with embedding it in all areas of Hawai’i. And trust me when I say this, there are people who have lived in Hawai’i for decades if not a generation and aren’t Hawaiian but will feel like what they say has some sort of weight when it comes to something that goes against Hawaiian values. I think for someone who isn’t from here the first thing someone like myself should do is listen and learn and contribute to the community especially helping raise the next generation. Because I feel like that’s where the disconnect happens, people move here give their kids Hawaiian names loosely call themselves Hawaiian or from here and then when it comes to major issues they don’t understand the significance. But anyway that’s just my two cents, respect land and culture that isn’t ours and learn the more people show that willingness to learn the more I feel like Hawaiian’s will feel like they’re being listened to. On a quick note about the leadership situation it’s not about only kanaka being allowed to be in positions of power it’s more so having someone who understands Hawaiian values culture and makes it their priority to not only preserve it but have it a main focal point of the islands. Just like how people end up travelling to countries and get excited about experiencing the food and cultures why not have that same feeling about Hawai’i when people say when in Rome do as the romans do well when in Hawai’i do as Hawaiians do
I am all in favor of science. But, too frequently, science is used as a club to justify outrages. I agree with the Hawaiians on this one! Science is intended to serve humankind, not visa versa. Preserve Mauna Kea for the Hawaiians.
TMT will serve humankind with it's unique purpose. How beneficial astronomy is at the moment, you can throw in the air, but dont write it off at an early stage where we're only discovering at this point and in the future, practical implications can be made.
Sadly you've drank the kool aid and have this one backwards. Theres a lot of emotion involved because it's people beliefs, that they got from their parents. This kind of superstition happens in all religious denominations. This is merely racist, nationalistic people (who are the moral minority) who see this as a win for their proposed "sovereignty." They are attacking the weakest link in their list of targets. Where were these people when the last telescopes were built? Where were they when the plans for the latest string of foreign owned hotels went up? Sitting on their couches eating too much sugar...not giving a fuck because they know they can't bully people with money/power.
@@djstrongarmgmail Thats what you think, alot of Hawaiians have fought ALL construction of hotels and even the telescopes
@@KamenRider808 Hotels are one thing. Foreign investors raping the landscape and pocketing the funds. Telescopes and other scientific endeavors are much different. The only people fighting against the telescope are ignorant, uneducated, idiots who bought the lies and believed the numerous false narratives set forth by the deceitful and often times extremely racist people who sold them.
Get it right, PROTECTOR’S NOT protestor’s!!!!
Protesters, not protestor's. Get it right.
And those people, by all definitions of the word, are 'protesting'. Therefore they are protesters. Kind of like how you'd call someone boxing a boxer.
Calvin HI No, they are PROTECTING the mauna from TMT and all the wrong that has been done and what wants to be done.
@@waimeagrl5142 Okay, TMT specifically has been reviewed and planned for 15 years to be 'safe' culturally and environmentally. I can't believe how much this has been said, but all the environmental assessments have been done and reviewed already. TMT is there legally, and socially, it was accepted in a local vote.
When TMT goes up, 5 of the other telescopes will be decomissioned. At the end of it's lease, TMT will be taken down and the environment restored. All of those are more environmentally friendly than the thousands of 'Protectors' who are PROTESTING and living on a make-shift base thats going unchecked for sanitary conditions.
As for harm that "wants to be done" (?) TMT will benefit science, discoveries, Big Island economy, Big Island Jobs, and Big Island kids. Not a single LEGIT negative affect of TMT has been said in all of these videos. Only vague normative statements and revisionist, incorrect history
Calvin HI Calvin, you should listen to videos by Keanu Sai and Sen. Kai Kahele and perhaps you’ll be educated on the subject enough to speak intelligently about the subject.
@@waimeagrl5142 I have. If you watched them yourself, use his points to defend what stance your taking because I cant tell what you're trying to say specifically. Because I dont want to argue history and annexation. Only TMT specifically.
$1.4 Billion, and they couldn't retrofit one of the other 13 telescopes? They had to build a new one? Sounds like some politicians decided it was better to take some kickbacks and line their pockets with cash to me.
TMT will be a football field big , 3 stories deep and 15 stories tall. . build it on mount fuji
To be clear:
According to National and International law, Government's oath is to act according to the rule of law; and protection of the people's rights. Human rights violations are war crimes (in this instance for Mauna Kea); regarding the Native Tennant Rights with the people and sacred lands.
You'd think they would be laws to protect these lands, but I guess they're aren't or they're like "Fuck it, we're doing this for research and we don't give a shit about your traditions or your sacred lands."
@@HawkinaBox ofcourse cause they always make the laws according to them. They never give a fuck about the people. We should be standing up also for our rights. Because us getting upset through this video and then going on on your day wont fix anything. Let's go fight!!
Damn I've seen you comment this all over the video
@@____________3321 The funny thing is, TMT has gone through the legal process making it lawfully sound, making it NOT a human right violation or war crime. Legally, it's sound with Native tenant rights and sacred lands, both of which aren't even affected by TMT. So the comment is actually pro-tmt, not anti-tmt.
But not all Hawaiians are even polytheists. And you can't put those beliefs over everyone else's on Hawaii.
In conclusion they don’t want to search for aliens 👽
They are already doing that all over the world, and frankly, it's a waste of resources. They should focus on taking care of this one planet we got, instead of pretending to be Jodie Foster in Contact
@@leob4403 Astronomy and space exploration help protect the planet with new technologies, satellites to monitor the planet's health and telescopes to protect the planet from cosmic threats, such as asteroids and solar storms.
@@sunnysied713 right and when we detect a huge asteroid we're gonna send a bunch of blue collar guys to blow it up right?
@@leob4403 There are definitely ways where you can defend against an asteroid. NASA is launching the DART mission in 2020 that will use a high velocity kinectic impacter to slam into an asteroid and deflect its trajectory. Also, telescopes help determine the size and trajectory of asteroids. If you see it from far away, then you have more time to prepare a defense and to warn specific Earth regions of an impending impact zone. The telescopes act as kia'i of the planet.
@@sunnysied713 Yeah but these specific telescopes are made to search for extraterrestrial life, and that is a childish notion, it's self indulging a teenage boyroom fantasy. We can't keep destroying this planet for such nonsense
We have blacks Mexicans whites Arabs Jews Chinese Japanese other natives and native Americans that have our backs about the sacred mountain. All have various religious beliefs but all agree that our sacred mountain shouldn't be desecrated. If Hawaii is considered an American state,what happened to freedom of religion?
what happened to the freedom to protect our identity as kanaka maoli. that's a big question too. the US has proved through the apology resolution that we are sovereign as well as the fact that we have the right to protect our culture. ku kia'i mauna, cause we not going anywhere
Hawaiians keep fighting for your culture, land and people! You will be heard!
Mount Fuji is still active😂😂
Mount Fuji is in Japan. Not Hawaii
Claudiu Toea I think he’s referring to the girl’s comment that they don’t see any telescopes being built on Mount Fuji
He doesn't care about the culture or the people he is hurting at all. Shameful
Keep up the protest. Never forget who you are.
If this mountain is sacred what about the other mountains? Haleakala, Hualalai, Mauna Loa? People have built things there but no protest. If Mauna Kea is sacred land then how did the roads up there get built, How did the other Telescopes get built without Protests??? I want a defined answer that makes sense.
All that you’re typing doesn’t matter. Go build it on the remains of Norte Dame or Stonehenge. Leave other peoples culturally significant lands alone.
@@GearZNet Of course it matters. Mauna Kea is a natural geologic formation, not a man-made structure. Huge difference. The Hawaiian Volcanic Observatory was built on the outer rim of the Kilauea Caldera, a sacred volcano and physical manifestation of Pele. The protesters are very hypocritical. I guess they don't want to die a fiery lava death.
I thought Hawaiian religion had died out to see people still following that is beautiful
Yeah but doing this is killing their heritage and culture, the Polynesians were a seafairing civilizations that used the constellation of stars to navigate and explore the vast ocean, their ancestors would be disappointed.
Maybe take down an old telescope and replace it with the new one. I dont know
Kittys cat
Maybe they should build it on top of your house 🏡
The deal made is to remove FIVE existing telescopes before TMT construction is complete. 2 are in the process of decommissioning now.
Why not listen to the natives stories, there you will find the origin of life
Hogwash. There you'll find superstition and racist hypocrisy.
@Sea dreams King Kalakaua supported astronomy. He understood the value it provided to the world.
People have to remember that hawaii is basically an occupied nation.
Oh FFS. No it's not
No...no it is not.
Absolutely true.
To all the ignorant fools who believe Hawaii is the 50th State of the Union, please verify by posting and official certified copy of the Treaty of Annexation that allegedly occurred in 1898.
Post here👇 I dare you. 😎
Show me the law where a country can use a “joint resolution” to annex a foreign country that is not within its borders.
Post law here👇 or stfu.
@@INSANEinDAmemBRAIN1
There is none White people steal everything it's in there Genes Free Hawaii
Free Puerto Rico
For us Pacific islanders when something or some place is sacred then we keep it sacred. Our ancestors made it sacred & we continue to make it sacred. It can be a certain thing, a rock, a pond, a lake, a river, a tree, a certain species of animal mainly fishes or even a whole island can be sacred to us. In this case by the Hawaiians its this particular mountain.
Im from Micronesia & we mean it when we say something is sacred. From the island i come from we dnt eat some certain fishes because we consider them sacred. Theres also a very tiny coral island that we consider sacred & can never land a canoe on its sandy beaches because we believe our ancestors do not want anything landing on its soil so we anchor boats just a few feet away & have to swim ashore.
The Hawaiian Volcanic Observatory was built (twice!) on the outer rim of the Kilauea Caldera, which is another sacred mauna and the metaphysical manifestation of Pele. Sacred land can be used for pragmatic reasons. The kupuna even built the Mauna Kea Adze Quarry on the summit region of Mauna a Wākea. It's the largest prehistoric quarry site in the world. It was a stone age industrial complex used to make stone tools and weapons. And it extended all the way up to 13,000 ft of the mauna. Science and culture can coexist on the mauna.
What makes something sacred? What if this observatory would be sacred to me? Would it be acceptable then? Because you deem one thing sacred does that mean it objectively holds more value?
We, being the arbiters of value in this world are greater than nature since we can put a value on it. Nature in itself is neutral, neither good nor bad, deserving of neither admiration nor censure.
@@Samartitxiki pls dnt be dumb. If it dont belong then its not sacred. Im talking “sacred by a group of People” not individually.
@@Samartitxiki Native people makes it sacred, people who've been living there for quite some time do. It certainly holds value to them, so it's not right for outsiders just to barge in and impose their will.
@@khust2993 they were the outsiders there too at one point, but they came in and did what they wanted, labeled some things sacred, killed off some species of animals, you know the usual conquer and take over thing.
I'm Navajo, when my mom comes to Mauna Kea. We do our prayer to. We as native Americans find that our teachings are well.
You are welcome to build TMT for example on Caucasus mountains. There would be no religion/cultural problems, there are many suitable locations and already working RAN telescopes.
Mauna Kea is the best site in the northern hemisphere, based on geology, climate, infrastructure, etc.
@@mimicku5256 Yes but if locals dont want it on their sacred land, its not best place.
@@Lea_Kaderova There's a small group of radical protesters who are using the TMT to advance their independence politics. Hawaii surveyed the public, multiple times, and most locals want the science project. The TMT is being constructed one mile away from the sacred summit. Also, it's a large shield volcano with lots of open space. There isn't a good reason to oppose a telescope, which is a tool of learning.
@@mimicku5256 Ok but still, ethicaly clean solution to me would be organized some public debate about that and then organized referendum about TMT. I personaly wouldnt have a problem with TMT if I would live there, but its their land and they should have right to reject or accept that project and not that somebody, somewhere 7000 km away make decision without public consent of Hawaians, especially not after 12 or how much other telescopes already built there also without their consent and in situation when its obviously sensitive topic for native Hawaians.
RESPECT THE PEOPLE OF HAWAII!! WE ARE MAUNA KEA
It's USA property.
Jeff Troy stolen Hawaiian property
Jeff Troy it was taken illegally
@@kbNanakuli Its the law of the jungle. Look back at world history.
Jeff Troy The law of the jungle or an excuse of an illegal overthrow. World history shows cultures getting screwed over by the white man not the law of the jungle.
No disrespect intended to Native Hawai'ians and their culture and religion, but, personally, I would consider it an honor to have one of my ancestral sacred places used for TMT, which will provide knowledge of the universe to all mankind.
And what would your ancestral sacred place be? I know you mean no disrespect to Native Hawaiians, but to build on sacred seeded land is the epitome of disrespect.
To each his own. In our culture, that is unacceptable. We love our land and we believe we are not put on this earth to destroy it
There are already about 12. Almost 30 years ago it was agreed that only a few would be built on Mauna kea. Keep in mind Mauna kea is also home to native species that are endangered and it's a source for water. Also, the building of anymore telescopes is illegal. Basically, the guys who are leasing it don't have a legal right to do so. There's more going on here than you think.
@@bulamoves2987 Building a telescope on top of a mountain/volcano is a very natural relationship between nature and science. It's not desecration. The land is being used properly and respectfully. They're not building a Costco, McDonald's, strip club or mega-mansion up there. Mauna Kea has many special environmental, climatological, atmospheric and social infrastructure properties that make it the best site for astronomy in the northern hemisphere. They're using the aina for a perfectly good reason and don't want to steal or desecrate any wahi pana. Sure, they're excavating a 20 foot deep foundation for the observatories pier structure. They're going to save all the excavated rock material in a special location and later use it to restore the site back to it's natural condition when the observatory is decommissioned. Based on exhaustive surveys, they verified that the build site had no sacred cultural heritage artifacts (no heiau, ahu, iwi, etc). Also, during the excavation phase, they will have an archaeologist there (just in case) to ensure no historical data gets lost (if it even exists). They're building the TMT on an ancient lava rock plain. They made the plan very pono. The kia'i should be working together with the astronomers to offer pule and mele to avoid any spiritual offense.
@@bruhinthewild The TMT permit has special conditions SC10 and SC11 that legally require the telescopes to be decommissioned. That agreement is legally binding and actionable. Also, they are promising to remove 3 telescopes very quickly. It will take 8-10 years to construct TMT. Those three telescopes will be gone by the time TMT sees first light.
The TMT has a legal conservation district use permit that has been affirmed by the Supreme Court of Hawaii.
The telescope is being constructed at 13,200 ft where it's cold, windy, has 40% less oxygen and air pressure, increased atmospheric radiation AND it's an alpine desert. The only flora and fauna that live up their are algae, moss and lichen (all ubiquitous) and some endemic bugs, which aren't endangered. The rest of the wildlife gives up after 10,000 ft.
It's sad to see this happen because both sides believe in the same thing. The native Hawai'i ancestors used Mauna Kea as a sacred place to commune with Gods and the Universe and share their knowledge and now that use has continued into modern times with the mountain being used to study the Universe and share the information they gain with all people. I think there needs to be more dialogue, understanding, and involvement on both sides so we can all benefit from this incredible natural wonder and its unique connection to the Universe.
@@The.Hawaiian.Kingdom Maunakea isn't a heiau, temple, church, synoguague, etc. Mauna Kea is a 13,800 ft, 52,500 acre, 1,000,000 year old volcano. There's no comparison between a tiny man-made structure and a massive natural, geologic formation. The kanaka built the Mauna Kea Adze Quarry, which covered 7 miles, was concentrated heavily around 1.5 square miles and extended up to 13,000 ft. They created a giant industrial complex, which scarred huge swaths of land, to quarry basalt rock and manufacture stone tools and weapons. The kupuna used their 'church' for many pragmatic purposes - often with destructive side effects. Furthermore, no ethnic, religious group has de facto control and ownership of a volcano. The mauna is massive. Science and culture can easily coexist. But the kia'i don't want to. They just want to perpetuate fear, anger, hate and historical grievances to promote their political agendas.
The kia'i claim that nothing was ever built on Maunakea and that it's a sacred 'church'. Well, the adze quarry was a huge industrial complex where the kupuna aggressively quarried the land and it had destructive side-effects. The kia'i _PRETEND_ that the ancestors treated the mauna with velvet gloves, but that's clearly _not true._
Mauna Kea is a 13,800 ft, 52,500 acre, 1,000,000 year old volcano. It's not a heiau, temple, church, or synagogue. There's no comparison between a man-made structure and a massive, natural genealogical formation. The mauna had twelve levels of sacredness from sea-level to summit AND the kupuna built an adze quarry up to 13,000 ft. Culturally, kanaka use the āina on the 'sacred' mauna when it served their interests. Church? The kia'i can't use that BS excuse when the mauna has the largest prehistoric quarry site in the world. Lol. Furthermore, the kanaka used maunakea for ancient astronomy (and some spiritual practitioners still do) so it's a natural progression for modern people to practice modern astronomy.
@@The.Hawaiian.Kingdom Didn't Queen Liliuokalani try to abrogate the constitution, overthrow the government, unilaterally create her own constitution, increase her autocratic powers, strengthen a more absolute monarchy and instruct the military to defend her revolution with force? YES.
Didn't the insurgents find out about her illegal and unconstitutional plot, lead a counter-revolution, depose her and take control of the government? YES.
Didn't the Queen surrender and later sign an abdication letter where she took oath to the constitution, reliquished sovereign claims, and acknowledge the Provisional Government? YES.
Didn't the Republic of Hawaii have control of the government and country? YES.
Didn't the Republic of Hawaii request annexation from the United States? YES.
Didn't the Republic of Hawaii unanimously pass a Treaty of Annexation in _their_ Legislature that later failed to pass through the U.S. Senate? YES.
Didn't the U.S. eventual accept the annexation and memorialize it with a joint resolution? YES.
Didn't the U.S. also annex the Republic of Texas, a sovereign and independent country, with a joint resolution and it was FORTY ONE times bigger than Hawaii? YES.
Wasn't the Newlands Resolution passed with a TWO THIRDS majority by BOTH the Senate and the House of Representatives, which is stronger than the approval criteria required for a treaty? YES.
Did the United States and Republic of Hawaii accept, abide and act according to the Newlands Resolution? YES.
Didn't all of the Kingdom's allies and treaty holders provide formal, written and de facto recognition of the Provisional Government, Republic of Hawaii and Annexation? YES.
Are there any U.S. or International laws of 1898 that state that a country must use a treaty (and only a treaty) to annex foreign land? NO.
Did TMT or astronomy have anything to do with Liliuokalani's attempted coup, her overthrow by insurgents or the annexation? NO.
Why not remove Keck or Subaru and replace it with TMT? Wouldn't it be the same exact situation as of now?
@@The.Hawaiian.Kingdom The TMT observatory building foundation is only 1.5 acres (which will be at 13,150 ft) and the mid-level facility will be 0.5-0.8 acres at around 9,300 ft in Hale Pohaku, which is about 8 miles away from the summit. The TMT permit is for 8 acres, but that doesn't mean the buildings are that big. Lol. Everything (buildings, roads, parking lot, etc) are included in the permit, but that doesn't even mean the whole 8 acres of land will be _developed_ or _disturbed._ TMT is *tiny* and can easily fit on Maunakea, which is *52,500* acres in size.
The Office of Mauna Kea Management, Board of Land and Natural Resources, State and astronomers have agreed to decommission, remove and restore FIVE observatories to nature in EXCHANGE for ONE new one. That's a great compromise!
@@The.Hawaiian.Kingdom oh so you want the earth to die ok ok we respect that!
If you think these natives stand a chance, hate to break it to you , but they won’t be stopping anything from being built.
At least these are actual Hawaiians and not the “Hawaiians” that moved to the island in the 1970s
Perspective is really simple: put a huge structure OF ANY SORT right on the front lawn of the house of every supporter of the TMT project. Tell them you’re doing it for the benefit of mankind in being able to see into the universe. See how that goes over. Oh and then arrest them for protesting it!
What makes Hawai’i beautiful is it’s unspoiled spaces. No one comes to Hawaii to soak in the buildings and modern technology!
What makes Hawaii’s people beautiful is they don’t separate themselves from nature and to a great extent each other. It is felt the moment you step off the plane. By people from all over the world. Can you say the same for many places on earth????????
I’m what you would consider a “local.” My blood is Japanese. I am a third generation immigrant here. Growing up here I have experienced both the unguided anger towards non-Hawaiians BUT I have felt SO MUCH MORE aloha and connection to my other local Hawaiian and non-Hawaiian island people that has made it hard for me to want to leave. I do love the world and other cultures, but Hawai’i is special.
You know, in ancient past you would be considered blood, hanai, maoli. You still embody what it is to be Hawaiian. Being maoli was a nationality as well as an ethnicity-today I think we are all just trying to be a unified global citizen. So many foreigners learned the ancient ways and have passed that down throughout the times, you are one of those, you’re more than local. To me you are maoli and one day the consensus will recognize that again.
Kintanti A Aww! I feel your aloha! I loved my kupuna however little time I got to spend with them. Their presence has stayed with me and will always be therefor me and all those whose hearts are open. Yes I feel Hawaiian but I think it’s important to point out my Japanese ancestry because I’ve read a lot of negative comments from people who are not Hawaiian that might assume that you have to be of Hawaiian blood to be accepted here. So thank you for raising awareness on that point as well! I tell all my friends from the mainland that the most important thing to a local person here is the ability to know and feel your heart. If it is not clear what your heart intentions are then you cannot expect local people to warmly embrace you.
greenshereen
Thank you very much for educating people and putting the words out there clearly and eloquently.
Kintanti A has anyone ever done aloha on TED. There’s something worth spreading!
What aloha mean? i always thought of it as a Hawaiian way to say hi😅
The acting government needs to return what they have stolen!
Ho'oponopono!
@@navysealblackwater , The USA is dying so it's only a matter of time.
@@navysealblackwater you're gonna burn in hell.
areUaware the USA is the only reason the Hawaiians are still alive. Tribal wars would have killed the majority off a long time ago. A small population would be stuck in the stone ages. You would really prefer that? You’re taking your privilege for granted.
@@Sumo-san they shouldn't have to even have a privilege that is their land America needs to stop putting their nose everywhere.
Alma Reyes what do African Americans or immigration centers have to do with this? Ridiculous that you’ve even brought that up. You do realize that immigration centers and racism exists all over the world? And it’s LEGALLY not “their” land. The kingdom of Hawaii actively sought annexation and they got it. Be mad at the Kingdom, not the United States. And you proved my point about us in the USA being privileged. The fact that so many people risk so much to get here, proves that. You are overlooking the things you’ve been given because a minority experiences some struggles. Which is commonplace nowadays. Get over yourselves. What good have you actually done with your privilege? Nothing. At all. Virtue signaling at its finest. Laws are laws.
This is the starting point of understanding what, why, than hopfully find a common ground of how we all can find a solutions. Intigrating hawaiian culture kapu and science that crosses paths. Finding answers in the cosmos to what our first ansestors done in stargazing as path finders to hawaii. A reason a pourpose for mauna kea to continue being a pivot point for stargazing and pathfinding with advance tools and equipments and knowledge and understanding is the focus point. For laau la'paau to work everyone must leave their pilikea at the base of mauna kea. Talk story than move forward with clear mind and aloha. My question to all kanaka maoles "native people" of hawaii. By ending the building of TMT will it end our ansestors quest to seek higher knowledge and understanding of our universe. " E ho mai ka iki mai luna mai e. O na mea huna noe au ona mele e??? Aloha kakou+
I agree with the people and they should take it up with their governor. I hear she's pretty reasonable and I think the people should take a vote. Take in mind maybe this is for the protection for the people.
Respect all cultures.
2:53 The ENTIRE world will benefit from this. Hawaiians should feel PROUD that their sacred land was chosen for such a monumental advance for humanity. Hawaiians need to face the fact that the Big Island, Oahu, Maui and Kauai belong to everyone now. If they don't like it, they should all move to Niihau. My people (I'm 2 parts Native American) have had the entire U.S. mainland taken from us. It is what it is.
They are not going to win this nor are they going to win back any "large" parcels of land any time soon. Whether the land was taken from them illegally or not is neither here nor there at this point in history. The U.S. will never EVER give back control or land to the Hawaiians. They are kicking a dead horse on that. They must accept the fact that the geographical location of the Hawaiian Islands alone is a key location for the U.S. Military.
Perhaps it's time to focus on other parts of culture like preserving their language and other customs. I've lived in Hawaii since 1991 and I can tell you 9 out of 10 Hawaiian kids can barely speak more than 2 or 3 sentences in their native tongue. Naturally, sentimentally I wish them all luck in their plight but I wouldn't hold my breath in the same way that I won't hold my breath waiting for the U.S. government to return the U.S. mainland to my people. Peace, Love and Light to ALL...
It is what it is? The islands belong to everybody?
Aʻole. NO.
Colonialism must end.
No, you leave the US.
M N No the US leave us
@@MN16304 don't ever
MAGA
@@jefftroy4518 yeah nah wrong idea mate
Outsiders need to stop the destruction of the land, the people, the culture. Stop the infliction. We are not you. You are not Kanaka Maoli.
Brah, it's a telescope - a tool of learning. The TMT is being built at 13,200 ft on a volcano on cold, windy, barren, alpine desert lava rock. It's no biodiversity hotspot. It's inhospitable. Only some algae, lichen, moss and some insects live up there. The rest of the wildlife gives up after 10,000 ft (for obvious reasons). That āina ain't good for homesteading, farming or ranching, but it's perfect for astronomy to explore the lewa lani. Aloha.
Protect Maunakea-like the song "We Are A Voice" states, "There's only one earth, and billions of stars!"
And how is the TMT an actual danger or threat to Earth? The TMT can be used to help detect and track Earth-killing asteroids. Astronomy helps advance human technology and protect Earth.
In 2003, TMT scientists conducted several tests for potential sites for it's TMT telescope. Two sites in Chile, and two others in Mexico and Spain (respectively San Pedro Martir and Roque de los Muchachos Observatories). All sites presented a different set of advantages and challenges. But all these sites (including Maunakea) are ideal for the TMT project, but the difference is permits and leasing, it is much easier to get a permit and cheaper lease on Indigenous treaty land.
In other words, it's easier to take land from the Natives than it is taking it from private White own land or from western government owned public land. The Native Hawaiians are simply saying build it somewhere else or rebuild it on the same foundations of the old telescope. It cost too much? Ask for donations from supporters!
You're either ignorant or dishonest or both. Maunakea is hands down the best site for TMT by nearly every measure.
@@BradleyInKona
You have no rights to it, Mr entitled old white man
@@Thomas_Oklahoma No single person or single race of people is entitled to it. The summit, where the astronomy precinct is located, is state land. Crown lands and government lands under the Kingdom of Hawaii never belonged to "the people". In fact, the mountain was leased to ranchers from saddle to summit in 1857. Not only was the kapu system abolished 200 years ago, there's plenty of evidence that shows Maunakea was never so sacred Hawaiians couldn't or didn't utilize its many resources.
@@BradleyInKona nothing makes you entitled to Kea, get over yourself.
@@Thomas_Oklahoma You sound like a broken record.
Why worry about other planets and stars when they can't even help us on planet earth
Exactly! Hawaii needs sustainability not further desecration of our natural resources.
@Dr Moriarty please tell me when looking at other stars and planets has helped us. Be specific in explaining.
I never said science has not helped us so don't put words in my mouth please. I said why worry about stars and planets when we can't even help each other here.
God gave us everything here so there is no reason to look any further. We need to stop pretending that we can leave the firmament. We can't even dig past 8 miles underground and you think looking at stars or planets can help us
@Dr Moriarty I'm glad I amuse you.
Preferred choice, but it is NOT the preferred choice of the Hawaiian people. It's okay to trample on the sacred because you don't recognize it as such because it's not your belief? It makes it nonetheless sacred. Nonetheless important. Protect the sacred, stop the desecration, and for once have compassion. I stand and will forever stand with Mauna Kea and her protectors.
Beliefs are not important just because you believe then.
For example, I believe that you should give me $1,000 right now. Why aren't you respecting my beliefs?
@@KipColeman So religion isn't supposed to be respected? Yet if this was a church everyone would be in an uproar. Belief is belief and it's different from person to person, understandable. Disrespecting a religion because it's not your own? I'm sorry that's not something I can get behind.
@@cryptidcutie164 I'm an Atheist.
@@KipColeman I can respect that. I'm a pagan. In my opinion religion should be respected as much as people who dont believe should be. Not everyone believes in the same thing and that's okay. With that being said you dont bulldoze over what people consider sacred just because you don't believe.
@@cryptidcutie164 it is my sacred belief that you must give me $1000. Please respect my beliefs. They are sacred. ;)
i think all islanders should unite as one. Micronesia, Polynesia, Melanesia. Guam, Hawaii, CNMI, Palau, Samoa, every island. We all unite as one and become stronger, not just physically and emotionally but spiritually. Divided by tide, united by pride 🤙🏻💯
CHHHHEEHOOOOOOO
I was born and raised on the Big I, Kailua Kona. I miss it and hawaii will always be my home. Brothers and sisters, you need to turn to the one true God. Polynesians are apart of Israel, scattered. Search truth. gods of trees and stone will never move.
Cool build the observatory in Israel on sacred land.
GearZNet .. cool build it anywhere.. get the Hawaiians right. Help the natives stop drinking and smoking, I know the mountain won’t. Teach them true righteousness. Not to be harsh but what’s on the top of the mountain should be least of your worries. I don’t care about the mountain, I care about the people. What about all the Walmart’s and McDonald’s everywhere?
3:20 “asking a fundamental question of where we come from”
Sir idk who you think has the same beliefs as people who have a religion that has the foundations of a history telling them where they come from, you scientists need so much information to believe a part of you and it’s not a sacrifice your making but sacral land that is not part of your culture.
Very disturbing to be so self centered.
Religion is fake science is real so
This was documented very well 👏🏾👏🏾
It was amazing for support. I saw the Māori, Aotearoa flag.
@@The.Hawaiian.Kingdom sure, I understand the background. I just thought it was pretty cool that Māori representatives made it out there.
Maoli, Maori, Moro, Moor.
Im on the big island. A lot of this is about race. Try to be a white kid in school here.."Wanna scrap haole?" Unclear my position on this. But there is a helluva lot of racism here.
Why are they building more telescopes in Hawaii where the locals clearly do not want them? Why not replace the destroyed telescope in arasibo Puerto Rico? I live there. Everybody I know would love to see that thing rebuild or replaced
Living in the past is dying in the present. Build the telescope.
WITH A BAJILLION $$$ YOU COULD REALLOCATE ONE OF THE CURRENT TELESCOPES TO DO THE JOB YOU SAY THE NEW ONE NEEDS TO DO!!!
And use the others location where people gladly except your presence to do what it use to do in the old location.
OTHERWISE YOU’RE BULLYING!
1) The older telescopes didnt have EIS back then, or they didnt have good EIS altogether. You'd be building on something possibly environmentally unsafe or near actua cultural sites. The TMT site hasgone through better EIS's and cultural surveys.
2) With TMT, they'd decomission 5 of the other telescopes permanently. which is actually and environmentally-sound positive for the mountain.
3) "And use the others location where people gladly except your presence to do what it use to do in the old location." Not sure what you're rambling about here. Canary Islands or other telescope sight. Again the other telescope sights aren't up to standard for EIS's, and the canary islands would have to go through the same 15'ish years of approval it took for TMT to be accepted here.
@@user-pf1fe1sn5k
Because you made a whole bunch of claims, I'll respond to them each.
1) I said they will be decomissioned after TMT is built. Right now, they could still be operating, but once TMT is going, they wont be used anymore.
2) The previous telescopes didn't have good EIS's done in the past. Thus, it would be better if they were decomissioned, Genius..
3) The bigger the telescope, the more you can see. the previous 5 are obviously smaller and in different locations. They're not rebuilding something, they're creating something new.
4) TMT has a lifespan. after 50 years, it will be decomissioned, torn down, and the environment reverted back to normal.
5) you'd rather keep 5 small telescopes with bad EIS's and limited contributions, VERSUS having 1 unique telescope and all the benefits it brings and decommissioning 5 out-of-date, environmentally-unsure telescopes.
Im the stupid one?
4:00 this man has the guts to say he is “excited” to cause pain and struggle to the people of Hawaii.
You cant help but hate the guy. As much as I am for science and progress and discovery, this is ridiculous. Brought me to tears. Period.
I stood with the protectors . Brought supplies and donated . Its everyone's responsibility . It forced me to look inward about what it means to look white .
It's great that you did that, but what does it mean to look inward because your white?
@@maelstrom4126 well I've lived a righteous life . I grow and share my food not the same can be said about the generations before me . A lot of white people try and outsmart and dominate .
I didn't say I m white only that I look white . Btw
@@The.Hawaiian.Kingdom my mother has spent a long time protesting .she was up there . it is a responsibility to protect jah aina .
What harm does this bring?
13 telescopes already up there. Where were you one the first one?
Yes it is Hawaiians vs telescope....period!!!
Agreed, but I also think it's Hawaiians for Hawaii! Building on a sacred site is considered inappropriate elsewhere, so I consider it inappropriate to build anything (be it telescope or mining rig or hotel) on that spot. America has hundreds of thousands of acres set aside as protected sanctuaries for indigenous peoples on the mainland. The Hawaiians should have their mountain. Telescopes can be built elsewhere. If those other spots are less ideal, just make it an 80 meter lens on a non-sacred island to make up any actual difference. My guess is that those pushing for this telescope are simply confident as they're used to getting whatever they want and it would either be more costly or less convenient to locate that telescope elsewhere. I think they mostly want to live in the comfort near an international airport, instead of being shuttled to a less comfortably developed island to perform their scientific work....but maybe that's just me.
Oh, and if these Hawaiians really want to make the mountain a bad location for telescopes, they should start setting up giant flood lights to blast into the sky. Good luck getting valuable images of deep space through that!
No, it's not. Manu Hawaiians support TMT and astronomy on Maunakea. Maunakea was never so sacred Hawaiians didn't utilize its many resources. It was leased to ranchers from saddle to summit under the Kingdom. No burials or cultural sites are present where TMT will be built.
Only half of Hawaiians. The other half actually use their brains, aren't manipulated by their emotions and a false revisionist version of history, and care/understand about important astronomy is. You know,...intelligent humans...
13 telescopes have been put up already. Enough is enough. What about recycle. What about upgrade. What about remodeling one that is already there. Just one more was a lie. Leave their mountain be. Respect there wishes. Where is the honor and respect for the land. Where is the respect for the people that say no more. When is it going to stop. The people should have the last say. Go build on your own land. In your own backyard. Kenike
They are removing 3 telescopes to build TMT. Another 2 will be decommissioned in the mid 2020s. The problem is you can "upgrade" telescopes. It's like updating a Toyota Camry to be a tractor-trailer - it just doesn't make sense.
This is a religious site. The telescope is a scientific instrument. Clarify aspects of astronomy as a pantheon of the Hawaiian 🌺 religion. 🌎
Hawaiian people are Christian nowadays
I stand with the indigenous people of Hawaii. There land was forced out of their hands, against their will just like the native Americans. It is their lands and should be placed back in their control. Sadly the government would never do that. Enough is enough. It is their sacred lands, no one else’s. I understand it seems to be the perfect place for the telescope but science needs to embrace spirituality for more answers. It’s time to start looking within, not only outside of ourselves. Put the damn telescope somewhere else! It’s that simple.
Aole!! TMT!!
IMUA TMT!
@@djstrongarmgmail UFA TMT!!