Pinsir vs Scyther - Pokemon Yellow
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 28 ต.ค. 2023
- Rules:
1. Only my starter in battle
2. No items in battle, except held items
3. No glitches, exploits, save states, or RNG manipulation
4. No evasion moves before level 100*
Rule details:
-- *In gen1, evasion boosting is allowed if the Pokemon does it through means other than learning the move by level up or TM. For example, using Mimic or Mirror Move to boost evasion is allowed. (This exception is to keep ranking consistent with my legacy videos.)
-- I am allowed to manipulate my starter
-- I play the game at 4x game speed
-- For fair comparisons all my Pokemon have perfect (or near perfect) DVs / IVs
-- I am allowed to catch HM users - I can use all field moves
-- All in-battle glitches are allowed in generation 1
-- In generation 1, I'm allowed to skip Marowak with the Poke Doll
-- Surge's trash-can-puzzle is automatically solved
-- The bike is allowed in gen1, banned in gen2, and allowed for bypassing terrain in gen3
-- Saving between league members is allowed
-- If the solo Pokemon faints and I choose to blackout it counts towards my reset counter
-- I can pause the game and timer to take breaks
-- The footage is sped up / slowed down to match the pace of my narration
-- The ability Pickup can only be used if the starter has it
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Illustrations by / sarinavail
Thumbnail art by / brianlsart
STAB: bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wi...
DVs / IVs: bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wi...
Damage Calculations: bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wi...
Gen1 Stat Calculator: pycosites.com/pkmn/stat_gen1.php
Gen2 Stat Calculator: pycosites.com/pkmn/stat_gen2.php
Gen1 Crit Rates: www.smogon.com/rb/articles/cr...
Learnsets: bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wi...
Base Stats: bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wi...) - เกม
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Surge can’t be a major battle, he’s only a lieutenant.
His pay grade dispute is his own Private matter
Hey man, he could have always commissioned from the ranks 😏
ive seen mash its a corporal matter@@terminalcreature1560
Go to jail for that General dad joke
@@Sithplayer lmao sorry, i couldn’t resist
I love that Scyther gets a 70 power move that always crits at level 29, but for a 35 power move of its type, it has to wait till level 50. Gen 1 is truly amazing.
Generation 1 is the worst generation.
@@hectorhugo8986 I wouldn't say the worse cause it gets some slack for being the first, but it's definitely not great
I think the fact that slash autocrits when used by the poke with the blade arms is so cool! The flavor!
@@hectorhugo8986gen 1 is great because of it’s flaws.
Gen 2 is awful on purpose. Bad pacing. Bad elite 4. Bad Kanto when you go back. Oh ya, bad pacing did I mention that?
@@cdajah6920by being an actual game gen 1 is definitely worse because of all of its glitches, while yeah gen 2 has the worst pacing and well mostly everything of any gen (the remake at least made it slightly better except for the wild pokemon having some of if not the lowest levels for any pokemon game)
32:06 “42% chance to 3-hit”
Looks at Starmie’s HP of 59.
Looks at Pinsir’s level of 21.
Looks at Seismic Toss.
🤔🤣
I didn't quite understand this comment at first, but then I got it lol. Yea Idk why he didn't just use ST for the guaranteed 3 hit? Unless he was hoping for a crit to make it a 2 hit?
@@wiseguise5960guess that crit chance is implemented in this calculation, so ST is the way to go
@@wiseguise5960i don’t get it please explain
@@IceManD3 Scott was relying on Vicegrip to 3 hit the Starmie at only a 42% chance, When he could've just used seismic toss to make it a clear 100% 3 hit since its fixed damage.
@@IceManD3 Seismic Toss does damage equal to your level. Pinsir is level 21 there, which means a hit of Seismic Toss will do 21. 3 of those is guaranteed to do more than 59, which is Starmie's health, so he just had a guaranteed way to get a kill in 3 hits there and he didn't have to risk it with Vice Grip having a high chance of not doing enough.
I feel like Guillotine should be a bug type move, it’s Japanese translating is “Pincer Guillotine”. It wouldn’t be STAB, but at least it would hit Ghosts.
Slow ghosts... Which is unfortunate
Nah. All of the OHKO moves should have at least one type immune to it.
Make it ghost-type. Guillotines have a morbid history in real life.
@@YOSHIERIDERSheer Cold?
@@MOORE4U2 Ice-types
@@Abomdosnow Why not just say bug-types are immune to a Bug-type Guillotine, then?
Scyther's back sprite looks like a severely underweight Tyranitar holding a Banana.
Cannot unsee cc:<
Also, fittingly: Double bug love! cc:
1:40:34 I'm not 100%, but I'm pretty sure in gen 1 repels just use the level of the first member in your party, it doesn't check whether or not it's fainted (also I think it's fine to use hm mons to travel after the lead has fainted due to poison since you're already using them for traversal)
The Surge fight on Scyther was so funny. Transition, crit, end. Such a comedic timing
The funniest thing about Focus Energy here is that it's intended to increase your chance to randomly deal more damage, and that's exactly what it's doing. *How* it's doing that definitely isn't what was intended, but it turns out if you have enough jank it sometimes cancels out.
Also a couple of mechanics notes:
10:00 The lowest effective crit bonus you'll be seeing is 50%, not 20%. The only level with a lower bonus than 50% is level 3 at 33%, but you start above that. As an aside, for those interested, crits double your level in the damage calculation in gen 1, instead of having a flat multiplier as in later generations.
15:00 All status moves ignore type chart effectiveness in all generations, with the notable exception of Thunder Wave (and Glare in gens 2 and 3 only). It's unclear why Thunder Wave has this sole exception. Even when the devs eventually added more electric-type status moves, they work fine on ground types.
This is a rivalry that will be fun to see over the generations, at Gen 2 Scyther finally gets access to some coverage moves as well as HP Bug and Fury Cutter, by Gen 3 he also gets access to Aerial Ace and in Gen 4 he completely overtakes Pinsir with Technician boosted Aerial Ace and Bug Bite.
First platinum video absolutely has to be palkia vs dialga. That would do numbers
I predict pinsir will win. Mainly because of moveset. Since Scyther doesn’t get wing attack till level 50, I think it will be stuck at Pokémon tower and will be held back at Agatha.
I think Pinsir’s moveset, specifically access to seismic toss , will be the reason it wins.
You're forgetting Mimic for Agatha and Bide for Tower. Don't get me wrong, I agree with you, but Scyther isn't stonewalled by Ghosts as you seem to think.
Bide is basically stonewalling tbh
@@SaintoftheHonest bide is barely a comfort
Good matchup!
And oh man, this is one of those videos that more-than-surpasses my coveted 1 hour mark. I'll be sleeping good for the next few days as I get through this video. Thanks!
I adore your videos, after I started watching you and your approch to speedrunning these solo challanges I cant go back to other creators (no shade, they have their own flaire) Thank you very muuch for your dedication and im very much looking forward to the redo of the starters!
I feel like Scyther WILL actually perform better due to the increased crit rate. Scyther and Pinsir will likely get walled at the same spots, and the higher speed means it will take less RNG to brute force those fights.
Edit: Apparently, objective reality does not reflect my subjective belief.
Scyther has a way better level up group, earlier slash, higher crit rate, better speed.
Even though I didn't see the video, imma guess Pinsir will still win because it has seismic toss against ghosts and can learn bodyslam, also swords dance later makes higher speed and high-crit moves undesirable in the late game.
I love the dark lord just popping up in the corner. Was not expecting that.
I've been watching your channel for years now but haven't commented before. Just want to say that I love your content. Also, I think it's really cool that you highlighted stellar runs from your community. Good work
While i respect your personal decision on double team it is important to at least aknowledge that the move being available for scyther may very well be a balancing issue that is part of the reason for the difference in bst.
I kind of feel that way too. Plus the excuse of saying every Pokémon can learn it when almost all these challenges utilize either Swords Dance or Mimic at the end to cheese a victory. I get that maybe these moves only get utilized as a strategy for endgame, but maybe double team would have aided in this frail Pokémon’s speedrun.
@JaredTVW what, only like, 20% tops mons learn swords dance. It's also much much less op than double team, which gives evasion / and/ badge boosts
Yeah, but who wants to watch a run where he sets up double team 6 times at the start of every battle? Too OP since it triggers badge boost too
My issue with the double team rules is allowing it to be mimicked to specifically aide certain types of Pokemon. That’s artificially aiding them in the tier list, a luxury that isn’t afforded to pokemon that struggle at other parts of the run.
@@MelodicTurtleMetal but let’s watch videos that setup amnesia or swords dance. It’s the same concept in theory, with the same benefits, using a move that is badge boosted to make your mon OP. Just saying.
YESSSSSS those results are outstandingly good! It's so satisfying to see Pinsir and Scyther reach those times! Awesome job, Scott! Also, it's very fitting for a Halloween release that the hardest part of Scyther's run ended up being the ghosts in Pokemon Tower.
Thank you for the video and all your hard work Scott. I watch all your videos and have for years! Love your content :) (I'm totally just leaving this to boost your algorithm and analytics)
Hard work? lol its what he loves.
@@highnos4735yeah but doing lots of playthroughs consecutively with some awful pokemon attempting for the best time possible while trying not to rely on luck is actually hard work.
Nice work on this video. Pinsir is my favorite pokemon. It's good to see it did well.
I think I have cracked the original design intent.
Caterpie -> Metapod -> Scyther. These 3 pokemon share several design aspects including color and the general shape of metapod/scyther.
Weedle -> Kakuna -> Pinsir. Weedle has a spike on top of its head like Pinsir has 2 on its head and Kakuna shares many similarities to Pinsir as well. It is my belief in this particular case that Weedle and Kakuna would not have had poison moves or typing.
Venonat -> Butterfree. This is obvious due to previous mention of their clear design similarities.
Then what about Beedrill and Venomoth? Aha! Easy! They were Safari Zone pokémon! Being the 2 poison/bug types! They don't need earlier evos. One is physical, the other special.
Of course, maybe not, but it's a fun thought.
What's interesting is that Pinsir's counterpart changed from Gen 1 to Gen 2. He's paired with Scyther in Gen 1, but from Gen 2 onward, he's paired with Heracross. Same BST. Same growth rate. Version-exclusive mega evolutions.
It makes me wonder if Heracross was planned/designed for Gen 1 but was scrapped at some point.
There was a Pinsir evolution in one of the Betas, that probably became Heracross...
@@AleMazza100yes, that was the case. There's even a sprite of Pinsir's evolution, and it really resembles Heracross' design
@@AleMazza100 Except it and Heracross existed side by side on the roster for about five months. Both were being worked on at the same time. It's weird, Pinsir's evo and Heracross are very similar, but it's more likely that Scizor, Heracross, and Plux were supposed to be a bug trio for awhile.
I predict that [change later] will win.
I like how this video did a recap of things known to your regular viewers. It helps new viewers feel included.
Scyther vs Lavender Town is one of the most hilarious things I've seen in these challenges, that alone made it worth it and made this far more memorable than most of these videos.
I'm cracking up that a nearly 2 hour video exists about making this decision for pokemon yellow. I respect the dedication!
This video was great! I bet in Crystal it'll be a bit more interesting with the wider move variety, it could even include heracross
These are always your best work.
Man I love these VS Videos
I know they are a lot of work but they are damn good
Scyther’s gen 1 backsprite is hilarious, his mouth is so messed up and it looks like he’s holding up a pair of bananas
there is a drawfee video where they make art for him as a dino with a banana
Scyther W honestly getting so close to porygon which is such a highly optimized time is pretty awesome.
Btw I posted this after watching, this isn’t a prediction lol
Nice to see the dedication to both Scyther and Pinsir.
Excellent video as always
Great work once again ❤
Who else can picture scott in a nursing home still playing pokemon yellow on an emulator?
It's interesting that the B tier has a bit of a crater. I guess that there are still quite a few second stage Pokemon that are yet to be played. Also, once again just a top tier versus video. These really do feel like events when they come out.
In a followup playthrough, "trade" the scyther to "crystal" at lvl 29, train it to lv 30 so it learns wing attack, and then trade it back for the ghost
I havent finished the video yet, but i just gotta say.. the thumbnail is SICK. Looks like they're about to beat the crap outta each other, the artist did amazing work!
I like how you say arcanine. I also like your content. Keep up the good work!
OMG, while watching this, I just realized the menu sprite for bug type Pokémon is a top-down view. I have for years since I first started playing Pokémon as a 6 year 9ld (I'm 31 now) thought it was a weird fish face with little lines or fins sticking out of its head. It makes so much more sense now.
I'm expecting a Pinsir win because of its moveset, but Scyther is my favourite gen 1 Pokémon (thanks almost eniterely to Tracey's old scyther in the anime) so I'm hoping Scott can at least make it competitive.
I love a good redo - good way to see how far you've come.
Hopefully we'll see a redo of our dark lord and the heathen fossil
nope, once you beat giovani the rockets leave the city allowing you access to the copycats house. you get mimic in return for giving her a pokedoll
@@corberus3119 sorry, changed my comment before i saw you reply.
Good to know though. For some reason i thought mimic and psychic were both obtainable prior to finishing silph
52:00 Scott: pronounces Arcanine correctly
Also Scott: fight me >:(
At least correct if go by the Pokédex 3D Pro
Looking forward to the backport follow-up Scizor vs Kleavor
Man, gen 1 broken quirks did so dirty to my boy... Can't wait to see him on next gens
I don't mind your dt rules but I do think it hurts scyther quite a lot.
Would be nice if they got some descent attacks but as is for many others they dont.
I think they're fine, but should be expanded to "Evasion moves cannot permanently be placed on a pokemon's moveset until level 100.
8:08 Pinsir using Vice Grip on that Metapod in Viridian Forest made me think of that one episode of the anime where Ash imagined his Metapod breaking in half under the Vice Grip of that one samurai trainer's Pinsir.
This guy is like Jrose, except when he gets to the end, he does it all over again!
oh we're eating this weekend
I’m sorry my favorite Pokémon gave you so much trouble but I appreciate the due diligence. Scyther is awesome for the same reason the dome fossil is the factually correct choice, swords are objectively cooler than tentacles. Lol
the gen 1 runs just have so much extra sauce. of course focus energy doesnt work, but it not working is beneficial due to the way badge boosts stack and crits disregard stat changes. there are just so many interlocking systems that, intentionally or otherwise, create utility for even moves that do the opposite of what they are supposed to do. you love to see it.
100% agree. Love these games.
And this is why I feel like, were I to make a 1st-gen ROMhack, I'd make Vice Grip, Cut, and maybe Fury Attack count as bug-type moves...Smith if I recall famously did that with Cut for his Crystal ROMhack but dunno about the other moves, it just seems fitting for STAB compatibility given these two pokemon.
Love these two!
Yeah, Kronaast and I both know very well the pain that is doing the Lavender Tower with just bide
Ive become increasingly more fond of pinsir recently, for me the first bug type that comes to mind. Although ledyba and buemy/wormadam are my favourites
"There are many different Type of Mantis, non of which have laser beams" -Ze Frank True Facts about the Mantis
Great video !!
Oh no, i do not think i am ready for this series to end, i know you do the other gens but gen I just hits different
Ooh, boy, if you didn't like Scyther in Pokemon Tower, you'll be thrilled to attempt Eevee...
The downright limited moveset of Scyther was always going to hold it back. However, as a pokemon to grab without TM investment, it's not the worst. Naturally gaining Swords Dance is actually kind of rare. not that it helps it all that much this generation, but it does mean I'd rather some sort of gifted Scyther modded in most of the time.
The outcome was definitely shocking to me but the Gastly line was just straight up devious. Lol
Eevee is going to be real interesting in Pokémon Tower. 😈
The new double team ban for those who get it by level-up has been really confusing to me. Honestly, if you're worried about strategies getting stale, you should consider banning the mimic TM. It fixes way too many problems for too many pokes in the E4. I'm not suggesting you actually do this, but mimic is way more consistent than needing to boost to +6 evasion to sweep. I could probably make the same argument for Rest as a TM too.
Agreed. If that's the reason, all TMs that are accessible for (almost) every mon should be banned then, including and especially Mimic/Substitute in gen 1 and Return/Curse/Rest in gen 2.
I will assume he wants a balance between complete winning at any costs and winning using the strengths of the Pokémon since the point is speed. However, he is most concerned about speed and not about using the unique traits to win, thus he resort to Mimic here and Rest/Sleep Talk/Curse against Red. So unfortunately, “using the strengths of the Pokémon” is not a strategy he will ever do.
The name I gave to the Slowpoke Cubone Maniac, on the 21st of May, in the Pidgeotto video, actually became a thing nice.
oh wow, i never thought about using Focus Energy, on purpose...and now the programming typo can actually make more sense-- if youve 'focused your energy' on Setup Moves and Badge Boosts, then a Lowered Crit Chance would synergize well with the buffed stats...
agumon is gonna win this one for sure (note to self: change later)
I remember a while back, someone who does these challenges saying that Focus Energy had no use, even knowing what you've described about how it bypasses positive changes. I feel so justified now that you've said it, that it can be used to prevent critical hits that would bypass stat changes.
Also I love how you're calling some trainers "minor trainers" because they most certainly look like minors.
Pinsir is my favourite Pokémon, so this was a very good outcome for me, I wish Pinsir got some more hype by the community
That trek up Lavender Tower was brute for Scyther. I tried this run myself and died a number of times there, so frustrating.
Good Job Scott :D
Expecting a pinsir win in this setup even in scyther is a fave
unfortunately the premier broadcoast was 100% broken for me, but at least I can start watching it now
Wow, how these games have aged! Like, I've been playing since Yellow, and I kinda have a soft spot for how derpy the og Pokémon sprites look 🤭 Its endearing
Lance's Aerodactyl in your intro is mimicking Pinsir's cry
I enjoy your Pkm Yellow videos so much, and I find versus category very interesting. What about Golem versus Rhydon???
I cannot wait for this video. These have been 2 of my all-time favorites for over 20 years now. Now they're gonna be duking it out!!! I think pinsir will take it, but scyther's speed is not to be underestimated. Oooooo!!!! This is gonna be good!!
i love your excitement. come back and watch this again
The Two best Generation 1 Bug types!! Much appreciated Scott.
Idk Venomoth as the Bug/Ghost type is probably better
Pinsir and Scyther have one of the coolest designs in gen 1, and it really shows in in your thumbnail 😊. I really like your thumbnails in general but this one was the coolest.
I was hoping that Scyther would better,even though I knew that using bide so unreliable and it wastes too much time even if you do have the right rng. In that specific case using the hp up was kind of usful in a sense,even though I think that maybe iron could do that as well too, because ghost is physical on gen 1.🤔
Using bide was, I bet, really frustrating because you can't really plan around that. But I'm glad that overall Scyther was getting some great results.😊 Pinsir on the onter hand is really good even with submission,which was kind of surprising. Maybe submission is not that bad after all🤔,in some cases.
Ok lets go for predication time. Im surprised to hear you say pinsir is going go be better because i think its slow growth rate will really slow it down early game.
I think scyther will take the victory cause hes mah boi! Just that growth rate alone and getting swords dance quicker has got to be so advantageous
Edit: oh no Agatha junior really ruined my estimations as well as others lol RNG for that was insane my jaw dropped! It's ok I still love my green bug flying boi haha
Seeing Pinsir mimic Lick of all moves was not something I thought of or expected. Seismic Toss ended up being better, but seeing gen 1 movepools be so horrible that Lick is a legitimately decent option is utterly hystertical.
Scott there is one question I've had how much time do the bage boost actually give like how much slower is it with our them or how much faster would it be with all of them at the beginning
Great video
15:46 Kabutops peeking in the top right. I was confused at first, then I realized you were fighting Jessie and James, right after picking the Dome fossil.
In case you don't know and if useful there is a hidden antidote behind the sole tree at the entrance of Viridian forest ^^
Scyther is in my top 5 favorite pokemon so I want him to win, however I’m excited for this result!
I enjoy that there’s a discord group who all want the best times
Scyther vs Sciscor, when? (No joke, they have the same base stat total lol - also, I understand it can't be soon, since your schedule is maxed out)
Predicting Pinsir based on its performance the last time they went head to head.
The wrapping Lass sounds like a british middle school rapper
You know what? All the Surge trash talking made me realize something.
Brock: puts gym next to Viridian Forest because rock beats bug
Misty: puts gym next to Mt. Moon because water beats rock
Surge: LOL Diglett Cave
I definitely think Double-Edge could have been kept for longer to maybe reduce the amount of time setting up. Does a +6 Double Edge KO the Aerodactyl? I know its a recoil move and those are risky, but it does sometimes feel like a blind spot when it comes to solo runs. Especially for Scyther, where it does 66% more damage than Swift does.
This was a really fun video though, and I think both times are still quite good. Scyther does definitely seem uniquely awful to run though.
Imagine taking your mon back to the center after its been litetally guillotined
Scott, I have an April fools challenge for you: Shuckle, backported to yellow. 230 base special but no special moves, 1% chance to crit, BUG type. It would be wonderful.
My prediction is Scyther wins just because of wing attack for ghost types after swords dance it will do more than seismic toss. Crits may hinder that though for poor scyther. The mimic of lick saved pinsir and that is awesome
Wing Attack is at level 50, so he’ll have to use Bide for Pokémon Tower or massively over level.
@@skeetermania3202true I was more thinking of Agatha
Am I imagining things or did you already do videos with these two, or maybe a versus? [1:12:24 you mentioned it!]
Let’s go pinsir! Hope you win! 🎉🎉
Of course u need to beat the chandlers but whats the earliest time u can get hyper beam i know u check damage threshold etc for second playtroughs when is money thresholds for hyper beam etc viable and is substitute and bide helpful does bide accumalate damage when the substitute takes damage?
Scyther is a good Pokemon with a very unfortunate moveset for this kind of challenge. I was honestly hoping the Focus Energy strat would work better because I like the idea of using 2 broken Gen 1 mechanics in synergy! wonder how much time you could save by letting Struggle hit Ghosts like in later gens, but that's definitely against the spirit of the challenge. Pinisir was quite consistent, though having to level up in a few places hurt its chances at an even better time.
Unfortunately in gen one struggle doesn't hit ghosts :(
I was thinking for a fun side series, is doing lower tier Pokemon with a hidden power injection.
My prediction is pinsir because scyther's typing makes it weak to additional types of electric and ice. Surge is terrible but he may give scyther some trouble and Ice will make lorelei hard.
My guess os Scyther because of exp growth rate, health, high crit rate and something that can hit ghost types. Also swift exists for sand attack