As a former Jehovah's Witness that has watched many videos about cults I must firmly say this is the best one I have ever seen! You might mainly be quoting a book Sargon but you did an outstanding job! Ordering the book immediately.
I know it's been 5 years, but I'm just checking on you. I hope you have been able to find Jesus in a non-cult-related manor, the JW and the watchtower are horrible to grow up in and terrible examples of what the church is supposed to be. Either way, I hope you're enjoying your life free of the cult.
The progressive left seems to be the beginnings of a new RELIGION.. Not a cult in my opinion Heres the common breakdown of a religion 1.The group worships a higher source of power rather than a single person. 2.There is a shared, sincere belief system. 3.The main belief or beliefs are consistent with basic mainstream standards for human dignity. 4. Appropriate forms of conduct between people are defined. 5. An understanding of evil is established, especially how it impacts humans. 6. There are sacred ritual acts.
I have a worry. With all of this discussion of cult behaviors, I fear that many anti-feminists also think in a cult-like manner, or cult like tendencies. For example, I see anti-feminists denounce feminists for simply being feminists, rather than looking at the ideas of each person. It is important to not be stuck in an echo chamber.
Hesus lol I finished the video, and it is important to note that most groups are not cults, but that members can have cult-like behaviors. Obviously, these should be frowned upon.
Erik Sanderson Everyone has to do it. There's nothing wrong with being biased just as a concept, just have reasons and evidence to back up the claims. I am biased that the earth is round, for example. People cannot be objective by nature, but they can get close at times.
Yes this, I have caught myself doing this a few times and had to apologise once I realised. It's difficult to not get sucked into the mob mentality, outrage is contagious no matter what side you're on.
Have to agree, it's a double edged sword. I wonder my self if a lot of us are indoctrinated accidentally. I mean Sargon would be a great cult leader, And a lot of us believe in his word like law. Heck brexit drove me mad when Sargon and thunderf00t had conflicting views, the group mentality was gone!
Well, I don't. But it's basically impossible to prevent that type of behavior on a large scale, this is the internet after all, people tend to take extreme positions just for the lulz.
Totally. It seems as though every kind of group could develop such a dynamic. Even and especially online communities surrounding a bigger TH-camr or a group of TH-camrs.
Remember what Sargon said, cult members are not "insane", or "crazy". And, most groups are not cults, but members of a group might exhibit cult behaviour. It is a flexible thing.
Hell, I even see some people here commenting like total cultists. "The Sargon of Akkad cult" Don't deny it. Some people around here... He is only britt with a talent to express ideas and arguments, not a god.
I think that in-group/out-group thinking is almost impossible to avoid. Everyone thinks of themselves as being part of some group or clique. Even if it's very general such as "I'm a moderate" or "I'm an intellectual" These thoughts don't necessarily make you part of a cult, but it never hurts to examine and evaluate your own behavior and beliefs.
Sargon, Thank you so much for video! Although I know the main point is to show how this correlates with the PC/SWJ mindset, and I understood that but I also took this from my personal experiences with cults. Years ago my dad, was sucked into a two different cults in his life. The first cult (Jehovah Witnesses) he saved himself, they kicked him out cuz he asked too many questions. The second cult was much more emotionally manipulative, I managed to save him out of it by simply researching on the internet about the cult history (Seven Day Adventist). Again Like you and Dr Arthur Deikman mentioned, "People brainwashed by cults are NOT crazy." Indeed, many were regular people who were hitting hard emotional/financial transitions in thier life. My dad loss his mom, and had other hard ships, that made him vulnerable to cults. I now know more what caused those things to happen, and that this CAN happen to anyone, myself included. Seeing this video, made me see that. Thank you Sargon. I love your intellectual look not just the SJW/PC World and feminist but rather as the world in general. You're a breath of fresh air in a world of emotionally motivated lies.
Good on you for helping your father and putting the effort in to do so. When cults become strong enough and begin to compete, they are often incompatible. I.e. the Jehova's witnesses under the Nazi regime opposed anti-semitism and the Nazi regime's warmongering, and so had their assets and property seized by the state, some members sent to death camps, and many forced into labour camps. I hope you are doing well!
Thank you very much! My dad is doing much better now. And so is the rest of my family. :) And yes from a historical point Jehova's Witnesses in Germany during WW2 where killed Nazi, since JW teaches it's followers do not serve in any military/government related groups. Also on a brighter note :) I heard many young or new Jehova's Witness converts are leaving early, because of just researching them on the internet. It shows how much a blessing it is to have mountains of information at your finger tips!
The problem with cults is they think they're normal and everyone else is a cult. The hard part is first asking yourself if you're in a cult before you accuse others of it. You have to do it, because that's the first argument you'll get drawn into. And it won't be easy. You know by now, there is no judgment you can make on a cultist that won't be met with "No U!"
I was once in a cult - International Churches of Christ or ICOC. This perfectly describes what it was like. Fortunately, I wasn't in long. I was expected to stay up super late doing bible studies with potential members and at one point was told I wasn't praying eloquently enough, among other things.
In Pentecostalism, i was kicked out of a prayer meeting because I wasn't praying loud enough. Unfortunately, i was in that cult for a few years. Its astounding how quickly they hijack your world view.
SocialMoth Sorry you had to deal with that. I don’t pray out loud and I don’t like when someone expects me too. 😖 One of the reasons I don’t always go to a church is a lot of people agree on a lot and then expect the same of me. I’d rather read the Bible and interpret it into my own understanding, not have people telling me what it says when I could just read it. Everyone is supposed to read the Bible and interpret it in their own understanding, not automatically believe someone else’s interpretation.
"How to leave a cult" confirmed my belief that this is exactly how Islam has always functioned and why it is so difficult for Muslims to extricate themselves. Mohammed as the cult leader; Mohammed as the double-think father. The pervasive self-righteousness.
It's really how all religions function and sustain themselves. Christians are exactly the same as Muslims in the belief of "if you don't follow this religion, you'll burn in hell for all eternity", as well as most of the other evangelical religions.
+Dickweed McKenzie no Christians aren't like that. If you don't believe anything what others in the group do, then there is no harm in leaving. Hell people can just leave. Christians don't teach that you will go to hell if you aren't a Christian. Only if you are a bad person. But, yes for the most part religions are quite cult-like in their behavior. Especially Islam
Oh, it's quite essential to many religions. But you've got to admit, Mohammed was a true genius as a cult leader. Probably the finest of them all. I mean, just how many other cults have survived so unified in tenets and their subservience to the singular parent figure for well over a thousand years? I can't think of a single one, even among other religions.
I believe that if you want to leave your Christian, Buddhist, Shinto, etc., you are free to do so without having to fear for your life. In Islam, if you dare to be an apostate, other Muslims are required to kill you. Correct me if you think that I am wrong.
This reminds me of Eric Hoffer's book The True Believer. Hoffer described much of the same conditions listed by Deikman, noting that anyone is susceptible to the influences of a mass movement. Hoffer also noted that many of the people who become the most adamant adherents are those who essentially who feel inadequate and are frustrated by this. Hoffer states: "The fanatic is perpetually incomplete and insecure. He cannot generate self-assurance out of his individual resources -- out of his rejected self -- but finds it only by clinging passionately to whatever support he happens to embrace. This passionate attachment is the essence of his blind devotion and religiosity, and he sees in it the source of all virtue and strength. [...] Still, his sense of security is derived from his passionate attachment and not from the excellence of his cause. The fanatic is not really a stickler to principle. He embraces a cause not primarily because of its justness and holiness but because of his desperate need for something to hold on to. [...] The fanatic cannot be weaned away from his cause by an appeal to his reason or moral sense. He fears compromise and cannot be persuaded to qualify the certitude and righteousness of his holy cause. But he finds no difficulty in swinging suddenly and wildly from one holy cause to another. He cannot be convinced but only converted." It is intriguing to see how this plays out when applied to various groups, be it the obvious progressive left and far right, or to more basic situations like team rivalries or the bickering between Marvel and DC comic fans. It appears that while anyone can fall for these elements, it takes a certain level of insecurity for a person to become fanatical to the degree we see with extreme groups.
I notice it's been up for 6 minutes, and despite being 35 minutes long already has 3 dislikes. I wonder who just sits around waiting for those to upload videos they will immediately disagree with just to dislike immediately.
I think that the most important thing to consider when analyzing cult behaviour is the attitude towards dissent, followed by devaluation of outsiders. The other two seem to be two deeply ingrained features of collectives in general.
Correct. Western civilization is split up in many parts who are in fight with each other. Muslims are 85% Sunni. And where I live they don't care about that either, they stick together no matter what.
The hype I have had for this video after hearing about on livestreams, huge thanks for consistently great content and now I wait for your next video showing how SJWs are in a cult!
Hmm, that's odd. Why do you think this video is about SJWs? Look at the 4 characteristics of cult behavior at 3:00 again. They describe AiU and his automatons perfectly.
We're probably exhibiting a fair amount of this behaviour as well, especially with regards to avoiding dissent. I would expect Sargon more to use this lens to keep an eye on himself and his audience.
Now that I think about it, it's such a weird statement too. Did she just have a home where she was entitled to agreement? Did her parents just agree with her all the time and change their opinions as soon as she threw a tantrum or something? Oh wait, they probably did.
+Sargon of Akkad Scary as hell... And the scariest thing is the "leader" for SJWs is not a physical being. It is an idea... And not an inherrently bad one. But one whose perception was twisted to fit into "omnipotence" fantasy... This makes things worse... a physical person can stumble and fail followers' expectations. Or he/she can die... None of theese can happen to an idea...
One of the best videos that I've learned about cults from is the audio recording of the final moments of the Jonestown Massacre, because you get to hear both the leader, the cult members, and actual individuals waking up from the cult all talking about perhaps the final step of conformation to cult behavior; suicide. It's a great clip, and I'd recommend it, but it is a bit disturbing.
+gomojo107 you sound like my father repeating the same conservative mantras his father told him. It's not that black and white. The only thing I can point out from that statement that I actually agree with is saying that sums up the neo-progressives. Socialism is an essential aspect of our society as is capitalism, and if you actually watch Sargon more than when bashes SJWs or talks about Trump you would know liberals are not a bunch of authoritative dependents who want big government, the authoritative left wants that, aka neo-progressives.
I couldn't watch this. I lost my girlfriend of 6 years to the religious cult her family got into. She was basically the only financial supporter of the family but they were willing to utterly disown her and go into ruin if she didn't leave me and join the cult. I could have joined the cult and kept her, but then I'd be betraying myself to the core. Emotional blackmail is the mainstay of the Jehovah's Witnesses. It destroys families, it ruins lives.
I know someone that is (was?) a Jehovah Witness. He is gay but he can't admit it to his family for obvious reasons. His family would also encourage him to cut ties with his closet friends because apparently Jehovah Witnesses are supposed to only hang out with other members and not "outsiders". He never did (yay!) and eventually was able to start working and moved out. He still won't come clean because he is afraid that he will lose his family. I'm sorry for what you had to go through, it's terrible that this religion has so much power over people. I'm glad you stood your ground though.
My friend was told by his jehovahs witness mother that he couldn't make any friends at school and it was at that moment that he decided he would make as many friends as possible.
I used to know a guy who's mom is a Jehovah's Witness and she was fucking insane. As far as I know he is still doing fine himself and hasn't joined them though.
@Farscryer0, if they're so cool, then why are they murdering eachother and "finding" dead bodies all over the place? There's more going on there than meets the eye.
Sargon, it's almost inevitable that our unofficial community here is exhibiting cult behaviour, given how strong and contrarian our views often are. Are you going to be using this lens to introspect yourself and your own audience?
It doesn't actually sound like it needs to be encouraged. I think it takes root in almost every group, looking at the behavioural indicators. But I think communities caught up in this "culture war" are going to be especially vulnerable to group mentality forming, simply due to the intensity of the discourse. I'm really taken in by this, to the point that I think I'll buy the book; mainly because in a community that prides itself on its rationality, this kind of intellectual corrosion is something that everybody needs to be on guard for.
Jumping into the convo here: based on the characteristics outlined in the book, compliance, dependance and avoiding dissent are not characteristics one sees often in our unofficial community. 1) Most content creators ask their followers not to harass the people they are criticizing and yet some still do- that's not compliance. 2) While people do often look to content creators to digest major issues, a lot of members do their own research on topic and often offer suggestions for new content or different analysis' of the issue at hand- that's not dependance on a leader. 3) Arguments happen all the time on the comment sections, especially when people are shocked by the opinions of content creators or have their own beliefs that run contrary to the beliefs/actions of content creators- proof that we somewhat embrace dissent. So unless I'm perceiving the comment poorly I'd have to argue that MAYBE the only characteristics we see often is 3...and even that can be proven false. Thoughts?
Since I am an intense introvert, groups and cults have always been anathema to me. I've never seen the attraction of "belonging" or of being told what to do or who to like or dislike. I find clubs and groups somewhat silly, and the inevitable rules and restrictions intolerable. Perhaps a little madness isn't such a bad thing after all. :)
Yup. But, curiously, even though personally interacting with other people is something I have little interest in, observing social behaviour in others is one of my greatest interests. There's few things more fascinating than cults for me.
The reason christianity in particular never jived with me is because I really do not like being lorded over like that. I have little problem with authorities, just the attempt to remove all my rights and responsibilities. hell, this personality quirk of mine is probably why I never went along with feminism
"I find clubs and groups somewhat silly, and the inevitable rules and restrictions intolerable." *Generally introverts describe groups in terms of too much information to process because introverts don't squelch sensory information inputs as extroverts do. eg crowds are too bright, too loud, too complex.*
Dai, I had not heard it put that way. I have always had a problem with large groups. Even as a small child I would slip away. "too much information to process" might be so. I know as the son of a cop I am always shocked when people don't see the fight in the bar two tables away. Most times I had been aware of the confrontation LONG before the first loud voice. I often spot the lost kid in a crowd, the dropped purse, or the old man having trouble getting his breath because I'm watching the crowd rather then the concert, act, etc.
Saoirse "I had not heard it put that way." *Susan Cain summarizes the research well in her work [Quiet, The Power of Introverts in a World that Can't Stop Talking,2012, Cain].* *She likely did some TH-cam videos and Ted Talks for her book tour.* *She highlights the exceptionalism in which some introverts have excelled at in a western extroverted society.* "I am always shocked when people don't see the fight in the bar two tables away." *Elaine Aron's research on introversion heightened sensitivity would expand on those experiences.* "because I'm watching the crowd rather then the concert" *Introverts tend to have a very wide sense input and not block things as extroverts do. That can be exhaustive and overwhelming for an introvert, relative to what a extrovert is ignoring, but offers the advantage of access to more information. Introverted traits are highly valued in the right career choices.* *Hans Eysenck described is with "over-stimulation" and Kagan with "high-reactivity".*
This was highly insightful because it refreshed the importance of self critique. It would be great for the lotus eaters to revisit this topic (if not yet) with the outstanding critical thinking skills that you lads have to offer.
I have always felt that cult like behavior is rooted in deeply primal survival strategies of early human groupings into small units, clans, that needed to be in complete agreement as to what was 'going on' around them. Leaders and spokespeople evolved and it isn't a long stretch to gain understanding of the institutionalization of dominance in all kinds of structures in civilization. This modern perversion is today's version of a very old trait.
Okay Sargon, I watched a bunch of your video's. It's been a long time that I was that entertaint . So much knowledge. And it never gets boring. You discuss everything. I love it. Thank you
Hardly. You can question any of us as much as you want, none of us who is worth his/her salt will demonize you for the very act of it, none of us will tell you you cant fend without us and we will let you leave in peace and make nothing of it.
+Dzonatan Gavert Not in the way that this is a cult, but in the way that most communities display cult behaviour. But that's entirely normal, it depends on the degree and the nature of the community if it's harmfull. Of course idealy as less as possible is preferable.
Excellent video by the way. I was born into a cult, and managed to get out as a teenager thanks to my peers criticizing my beliefs, sparking my free will to draw my own conclusions about my beliefs. Almost everything said was true, except my cult was a bit more peaceful about people leaving, and was non violent in general. The part where it's said "People who break away from cults need therapy for traumatic experience" : hits home for me. The literal physical impact of the stress I felt from leaving the cult has probably riddled me anxiety issues for much of my early adulthood and 20's, and probably still affects me today. Once you leave a cult, and accept your own free will, it's like your whole world is turned upside down, death is no longer safe, life is no longer safe, much of your entire social circle rejects you, your own family disowns you, etc... It's a lot. Took a big dive into various subjects of philosophy at that point. Anyway, anxiety or whatever, it's all worth the trouble. You only got one shot at life, and for as much of it as possible: I want to live it while being in control of my own destiny and fuck-ups. Don't want to name the cult because I'm not a fan of giving out personal info ;D
Hey Sargon, I'm an amateur writer, and am currently writing a book which prominently features a cult. I realized I needed to actually read up on cults/study them in order to write this one with any kind of authenticity or resonance, and this video, as well as the case studies one have provided an excellent starting point and foundational knowledge of cults and cult behaviour, so just wanted to say thank you for taking the time to make these videos. Seriously appreciate it!
Cult behavior is a subset of human hierarchical systems, such as governments, companies, and society. The only difference between cult behavior and human sociological behavior is that cults are more inclusive and are ironically escapes from human sociological behavior. In truth, such individuals escape an abstract "cult" to a more inclusive cult that allows the individual to feel safe and even important.
Certain types of shamanism, mystics, and more lonesome/schizophrenic types tend to seek truth as a form of ecstasy, and imo are the most inclusive cults it can get as they are on their own. All human groups seek the truth to justify their existence and thus give them some form of importance, it just varies on the spectrum of inclusiveness and those asserting their dominance in leader roles (which reinforces their near omnipotent role in the group). The loner extreme is their own leader. Society trickles down from a chosen leader. It is all relative.
Hectar Savoie Thank you. Well, leaving without hard feelings doesn't change the fact that the group you are functions under the same rules that cults and other sociological groups are governed under. Be it a football team, a company, or even the CIA. I would say your feelings are irrelevant to the rules at play, it just means you aren't as effected as others would.
I agree. "Deprogramming" is simply socialization (i,e. brainwashing) into the cult of the greater society. Of course, small authoritarian isolated groups are more often than not dangerous and abusive in my opinion. Being willingly controlled by another is bad.
I was a member of a teenage drug and alcohol "rehabilitation" program that was just one big cult. It insisted that members cease all contact with former acquaintances, usually insisted new members live with established members for a few months, mocked people outside of the group as "normies" and "white-bread", held all-night events multiple times a week that included staring into one anothers eyes speechless for a number of minutes or sitting in a circle and telling everyone how much you love them and painted you as selfish if you did not participate or lying and hiding some fault if your participation was not deemed adequate, encouraged members to drop out of school and participate in all day events consisting of more intense versions of the same things. Any questioning of the group was seen as arising from selfish motives and all members of the group would aggressively argue and question until the person rescinded his claims and admitted he was being selfish. I remember as a group making a 20 year old man break down and cry in front of us three days in a row because we didn't see him as participating enough. He wasn't even doing anything wrong, he was just quiet and we were all a little bored so we just bullied him. It was run by an ego maniac who would interrupt all manners of conversations whether personal or in a group and profanely criticize our character and our motives and explain why he knew what we should do and why we should know too if only for our extreme selfishness. This man was not even a liscensed counselor and had no business running a group like this. There was a claim that there was no inherent belief in the group, but we all prayed the same way, all prayed for the relief of the same guilt imposed upon us by the leader and the group as a whole, and any mention of an established religion was sneered at. Really, anything with a lot of thought behind it was sneered at. Philosophy, history, propriety, all things that could help a troubled group of people and have been positive forces in society for centuries were discounted as being fake and impersonal. I had multiple friends commit suicide while in the group and many more who entered only having drinken or smoked pot and left smoking meth or doing hard drugs. The sexual environment was akin to a brothel; every week multiple new sexual partners would surface. Oftentimes, legal age restrictions were totally ignored and girls as young as 14 were having sex with men age 20. There was one example of a 20 year old man shoving his penis into the mouth of a sleeping 13 year-old newcomer who had only been around for a couple of weeks, and it was encouraged by the other members as funny. Normal behaviors and interests like humor, school, and family were seen as contrarian to the group and members would usually have to abandon all such interests, or incorporate them into the group for the whole group to enjoy. It was the most horrible 2+ years of my life, and gave me great difficulty adjusting to common society once I left. The group still exists and I still have friends in it.
Hey Sargon, this is will be my first time posting. I recently left a cult. I mean leaving is probably not the right word... I got kicked out of the cult. I lost all contact with my childhood friends and most of my family (everyone but my sister) and if it wasn't for my college friends that helped me out after I was on the street I don't know what would have happened. Lately I started considering returning to the cult, it's true that most of what they said about the outside world isn't true and I was miserable while in there, but I wasn't alone like I am now. However, listening to this video I finally identified them as being a cult and for some reason that gave me the strength I needed to give up on that suicidal idea. I just wanted to say thank you and keep up the good work, I'm so glad I found you.
"Devaluing the outsider is probably the most common cult-like behavior in everyday society, where it takes the form of regarding one's opponents as if they were a homogeneous group" Kind of reminds me of the people who refer to everyone they dislike as "regressive" or "sjw".
I'd just just dispense with the idea of 'sides', if in any way possible, personally. The divide you are talking about here is in itself just another example ingroup-outgroup bias, in the end.
SootShade You're right most people are not completely "left" or "right", however the distinction, I believe, is not entirely arbitrary or unnecessary, though it can be used inappropriately to create a cult-like mentality within particular groups.
The thing is, though. 'Regressive' or 'sjw' are pretty narrow terms and only apply to people in the far corner of authoritarian left. That's like... 1/8th-1/12th of the political spectrum. A better example of cult-like name calling would be what the 'regressive' and 'sjw' people do, which is call everyone in the out-group 'right-wing'; even though plenty would consider themselves left-wing.
Probably important to point out that many SJW self-identify as such. It's not me putting them in that group, when they proudly declare and justify it themselves.
We describe them as such because that's what they OBJECTIVELY are. They prone regressive laws and behaviors, and they fight for "social justice" (an oxymoron, only personal justice exists)... Having a bias doesn't mean that bias is wrong. If anything the ONLY thing that differentiate us from SJWs is that we fight for the right of even our enemies to be able to express themselves and question us. Unfortunately, they don't reciprocate.
For decades I have believed that nationalism, religion, music scenes, capitalist marketing, politics , and of course, the thinly veiled modern Marxism movement, are based on targeting the "need to belong". This human trait can actually lead people to disassociate from reality, and defend the fantasy. This needs to be known, understood, and called out. Please listen to this intro on the topic and research these concepts so you won't fall victim to irrational people or groups who are trying to force their fantasy upon your freedom's of speech and will.
This analysis is spot on. I have experienced most of the things described here when I did my time in the church. I have been suckered into a christian cult the exact way described here. Even though neither myself nor my family was religious. Back then I thought I was immune to religion, but they have their ways to get you. If you are not aware of emotional manipulations and mind games they play on you, If you are not prepared to think critically, then you can be very voulnerable. I wasn't prepared and they made me into a raging fanatic. It took 10 years of my life before I managed to get some actual knowledge and learn how to think for myself to see it all for the scam it was. Now I also consider getting some form of theraphy. I am able to live a normal life for the most part, but the anger and regret for being such a sucker still makes me loose my shit when I start thinking about it. When I recall all the bulshit I believed and how zelous I was to preach it to others...
I gotta say, I see some elements of devaluating opposition; if I ever disagree with Sargon and write so in the comments section, I always feel the need to preface my critique with something like "Just so you know, I've always been a huge fan and almost always agree with you Sargon, but-". Maybe it's just me, but I feel like if I don't do that people will just write me off as an SJW and flame me. Again, could just be me, great vid!
Yeah I've seen that sort of thing too. I think there is always an element of devaluing the outsider when you are engaged in a battle of ideas, but we should at least be aware of it.
That video is as interesting as I'm used to seeing on this channel, but man, you really to add clip-long background noise, the transitions between audio segments are really jarring.
Yeah, I am aware of it. I personally am not afraid of criticising even people I still respect. Also Hi Sargon :D Actually, I kinda want to mention something along the lines of criticism towards a small aspect of the video. I want to add my own personal insight in regards to this video on term "Cult-Like Behaviour". I feel it isn't accurate to associate the idea of Cult like behaviour as being a symptom of all groups, but should instead be seen as the extreme of group social interactions. Because classifying more normal interactions as being cult-like could end up making groups seem inherently "somewhat Cult-like" rather than the normal position. Basically, I think only the extreme variations of these normal behaviours (Which then become abnormal due to extremism) should be the only behaviour referred to as Cult Behavior. I know, this really is a smaller point, but I think the wording in this case might make people get the concept a bit better (I understood it completely, and I this really is a Rewording for clarification since they both say basically the same thing, but it might help) Tell me what you think :D
Holy shit... it was yesterday that sent a link of "To honour the dissidents" to a friend of mine, while discussing the nuisances of the whole world-covid collective madness. And on 3:03 you can clearly see that one of the aspects of a cult is the avoiding of dissenting voices. So, there is a method to all the madness.
9 minutes in and this seems more like an explanation rather than an analysis. Sargon doesn't disagree, offer alternative approaches, or note logical or statistical problems with the author's argument. Hope it gets better.
16 minutes in, still no analysis, this is a summary of the book in question, not an analysis. Where is your critical thinking here Sargon? I was really looking forward to you actually analysing the ideas, not just doing what amounts to an abridged book reading. :-(
29 minutes in "the author offers 6 behaviours".... so...what do you think of the ones he chose? Do the author's assertions hold up to modern stats and evidence? ZERO analysis here Sargon... I am disappointed.
Excellent well thought out and presented breakdown of this subject. I'll be buying that book "The wrong way home". It sounds like a very relevant topic with all that's going on in the world today. Great job.
Some apply to most groups, it's rare that all apply to a single group. These behaviours act off each other and raise the intensity of the dependency of the relationship, and it becomes a cult.
Or associate with many groups, including opposing ones. "The test of a first-rate intelligence is the ability to hold two opposing ideas in mind at the same time and still retain the ability to function." F. Scott Fitzgerald
I think its more the intensity and prevalence of the ingredients that causes the cult to form. A cake wont rise properly if there is too little flour and a cult wont arise if the conditions don't give it a niche. Unfortunately we currently live in a world absolutely overflowing with flour.
I was just using a little metaphor to sum up the basics of the situation. It is a lot more complex and multifaceted but I'm not writing a dissertation here, I'm providing a alternate viewpoint for notstayinsdowns to chew over.
+Daniel H Actually I don't think so. Many religions do give people a sense of community and moral guidance, but I believe the difference between a religion and a cult is one is a part of your life and the other is your life. For example, Catholicism requires you observe holidays, go to Church once a week, pray, and you confess your sins. There is no push to cut your self off from people of other beliefs and dissenting views are tolerated within the Church to an extent. Not saying that religion is good, but I am saying that there is a real difference between a cult and a religion.
A cult can be made of anything, but a group is not a cult, a religion is not a cult. The cult comes from the cultist, and a collection of cultists makes a cult. The cause is just a vehicle for the cult to use, a moral justification to hide behind and rationalise their behaviour. They are not mentally disabled (or as you say, crazy), but they *are* personality disordered, mentally ill (conditioned behaviour/have learnt the wrong lessons from experiences). They are *damaged*. The problem exists within them, not only their abuser (they were either damaged before-hand and changed, or were damaged and changed by their abuser). Without resolving it, a person will go from one cult to another. For example, Laci Green was raised as a "super-Mormon", escaped from that cult and then went on to become a feminist/sjw cultist. It is the EXACT same as how a dependent will go from one relationship with a narcissist to another, because that is what it IS. A cult is a collection of the personality disordered: The master/slaves (cluster b personality disordered/psychopath/narcissist types: narcissist, borderline, antisocial, histrionic. I make you feel bad so you do what I want, I lie/manipulate to impose my will upon others, and to appease those higher up the ladder so that I may climb) who are predator and prey at the same time to one another, fighting for dominance in a hierarchy. The slaves (co-dependents. I do what you want me to in order to feel good, I lie to appease my master and impose upon/manipulate those who stop me from serving them).
What's the difference between a religion and a cult? As an outsider, it seems to me the primary difference seems to be subscribership count and a secondary measure might be whether some visible fraction claim to believers without actually being practitioners.
+ExaltedDuck The number of followers matters, because the larger a group becomes, the harder it is to keep it an echo chamber. Also, the lack of a concrete dogma or, in the case of the abrahamic religions, a fractured, frequently contradictory dogma means that the foundational beliefs are subject to interpretation, therefore preventing that inceptional self-release to the unchallengeable ideas of the group (which, as we said, is too large for cohesion). But cult-like behaviour is the de-facto trait of the ideologue, the follower and the devout. It just shifts in relation to the "leader figure". In ideology, that is the foundational idea, in religion it's the "word of god"; in a cult, that's the actual, physical leader.
(sorry if this is a little messy) A religion is a system of societal governance, a moral philosophy, a path to enlightenment and a way of life. A cult is the manifestation of a dysfunctional/damaged understanding of morality and of the self: dependency, narcissism, fear, attaching your ego and identity to an idol (lidolatry), projecting blame for your pain and failings upon another as scape-goat and therefore justify "revenge" against them, in-group/out-group collectivism, bullying, social ostracism, elitism, thinking of yourself as a victim, playing/supporting the victim to look good, zealotry, the rejection of accountability/responsibility, entitlement, bullying and emotional manipulation.etc. A cult will also talk of enlightenment, but "enlightenment"; through a cult is to follow a dogma/lie and become concrete in seeing the world through the cult's perceptual bias (such as the sjw concept of "woke"). It is the absolute opposite of enlightenment, as it is to be fooled into removing accountability/responsibility from yourself for the role you played in your own downfall and instead shift the blame onto a phantom menace. In stopping you from holding yourself accountable for the mistakes you have made, giving you an excuse to avoid suffering by lying to yourself, it prevents you from ever learning from them; it stops you from attaining true enlightenment, which is gained by doing exactly that (learning the lessons from your experiences). This behaviour has been incorrectly identified as being in itself religious, but it can be applied to anything (favourite sports team, console, genre of music). A confusion is often made between religion and cult, because cultists so often profess themselves as devoutly religious in order to claim moral superiority; being the most loud, zealous and puritanical. They hold their belief as proof of them being good; to think that a belief in God makes them good and clever (in-group), while those who do not/believe in another, are bad and stupid by default (out-group). If for instance you attach your ego/identity to Jesus as an idol (idolise), you project your idealised self upon him and draw vicarious power (moral/intellectual infallibility/freedom from fault) as if to gain the credit for his achievements (my team won the game!). It is to think "I am good because I believe in Jesus", rather than being a good person yourself and seeing Jesus as a hero outside of yourself, an example of how to behave. Because you have bound your self-worth/identity to the idol, when it is challenged you are vicariously wounded to the core of your being (insulting Mohammed), so will defend it in order to defend the lie you keep to yourself; that they are perfect and thus you are perfect because you live through them. Feminism/social-justice are political ideologies; they are not religions, but they are cults. If a person defines their identity by being part of a group, "one of us" cannot possibly do wrong, as if one does wrong, then all be association are tarnished. The honour of the wrongdoer will be defended to the dying breath (while all evidence to the contrary is denied). The existence of their affiliation to the group will be denied (not a real Muslim/feminist etc.). The acknowledgement of a problem will be avoided, by conflating the guilty with the innocence of other members of the group (not all Muslims/feminists etc.), or by conflating with the guilt of members of other groups (bring up old issues like kkk when talking about modern day terrorists, equate to muddy the water). If I stroke your ego, give you my approval, make you feel good, then I threaten to take my approval away, making it conditional upon you agreeing with me, this causes you to seek my approval by agreeing with what I say. You do not need to be indoctrinated, nor need a leader who is a con-artist, as it comes from inside of you. Cults are a natural part of damaged human behaviour: dependence and narcissism. To be approved of and to think of yourself as blameless by lying to yourself and others. They are self-establishing and perpetuating.
GeorgeMonet Islam is a religion which contains a number of cult mechanics. It creates a damaged society through the enabling of crime, producing people who are traumatised, "lost" (which gives them the yearning to be whole, which can be exploited by providing them with a saviour from themselves; an ideology to bind their ego/identy to. Because they feel terrible about themselves, they vicariously live through that instead as a substitute for their own self-worth). However, a religion itself is not a cult.
So as far as I can tell the book is not capable of defining a cult objectively. Cult like behavior exists in any social group and the only way to differentiate between a cult and a regular group is to establish some sort of intensity threshold. Does the book brings any objective information at all except for the interviews? I mean things like age, gender or social classes that are more or less susceptible for cult like behavior. Or some kind of analysis of cults among different cultures and historical periods? Anyway that's some interesting stuff.
I think that is simply a consequence of the fact that cult behaviour is simply not something that can be easily distinguished from regular human social interaction, which is exactly what makes it so insidious.
"So as far as I can tell the book is not capable of defining a cult objectively." *The dysfunction in "cultism" is it's based on pretending. Pointing at a group of people that pretend is a objective thing. eg Socialism is a cult of people pretending government is daddy and society is family. It's impossible for a society to be family. eg Dunbars Number. To be an authority in government is to do psychopathic tasks, that's the lest functional thing a "daddy" could be.*
Even groups can exhibit different degrees of intensity in authoritarian group behavior at different times. A small baptist church may be a "cult" one decade and later change its structure of authority. Also, individuals with a need provided by a cult environment may try to fulfill those needs in an environment that is not authoritarian at all. For example, a baptist church that is not authoritarian or isolated may have one or two members who try to push it in that direction to satisfy their own needs.
Nerthus The dysfunction in "cultism" is it's based on pretending. "A small baptist church may be a "cult" one decade and later change its structure of authority." *People pretend ANYTHING. Don't do that, simple.* "a cult environment may try to fulfill those needs" *PRETEND NEEDS aren't a physical need. Pretending again.* "For example, a baptist church that is not authoritarian or isolated may have one or two members who try to push it in that direction to satisfy their own needs." *There are three fundamental types of human relationships. 1. commonality: as in what is mine is your and yours is mine, we are one. 2. reciprocity: as in the tit for tat exchanges in a market. 3 dominance (authoritarian): do as authority says or else physical violence will be done.* *It is possible for 2 person to be any of those three relationships or none.* *The dysfunction in "cultism" is it's based on pretending. eg Socialism is a cult of people pretending government is daddy and society is family. The "pretend" part of that is why it can't function as described, socialism is IMPOSSIBLE as described for more than 150 people. (Dunbars Number).*
@@yuh1247 I can see an argument for point two, maga is kinda dependant on their defacto leader to run the country, but beyond that, I haven't seen any Trumpers who fit the other categories.
My brother is part of a cult. He's not evil or crazy, just weak. He's always been a simple minded mamma's boy. We still love him, but there's no pulling him out of it because of how anemic he is to other points of view. He's constantly threatening to disappear and never talk to us again if we push him. So for the sake of our parents, my other siblings and I just leave him be.
So can the SJW movement be classified as cult-like even though they have no designated leaders? And what could be viewed as 'leader' replacement? The general ideology?
I'm guessing that the movement itself is the leader, they do what they do for the group, and the people within the group treat everyone else like a parent " your doing so well, keep it up" etc, so everyone else would be the parent to you, and you would reciprocate that, but everyone not in the group would be ones who don't treat you like a child, so they would endanger the mindset. also, people like anita sarkeesian, the people telling them what to think would be the leaders. what I'm saying is that feminism etc is more like the catholic church, you do everything for God, and there is a group of people who are different (opinion wise) but who tell people what to think, there is no one leader, but still a hierachy and dependancy on the group itself.
though they have no designated leaders, their supposed leaders are pretty obvious: Anita Sarkeesian and Johnathon Mcintosh are the leaders of the feminists, for example.
iggyking6 I think they act more as a personal pope, people believe them to be the most enlightened while those below his authority do all the real legwork (justification etc), so feminism is disorganised, but it's a bit like the banality of evil, where they'll do things for the greater good of the organization itself, kind of like the nazi's
Really interesting. Gonna watch the follow up now. Let me also say that I try my best to expose myself to views I don't agree with. Your channel is a good example, some of your videos I agree with 100% and others not so much, but I am subscribed anyway because I like your delivery and even where we disagree your points are well made. Dat end music XD
And this is why I listen to you even when I don't agree with you, Sargon. You speak of adversaries in a negative light, but you do not exempt yourself from criticism. You recognize your fallibility. You accurately represent your opposition's views to the best of your ability. You consider the validity of your adversary's view BEFORE discarding it, and you re-evaluate that view in the light of additional information (which few of the opposition are presenting, unfortunately). You take a critical look at your own position. I have no idea how you treat potential dissidents that leave your side. You do seem to feel self-righteous, though. :P Anyway. You are the opposite of a cult in your thinking, and that makes your views more nuanced and worth considering where a cult's views lack nuance and grounding. Thank you for all your hard work, Sargon. You have served me, personally, as a platform to awareness of social issues and a springboard to asking questions I didn't know to ask.
Thank you so much, Sargon! This video gave me some much-needed information and peace of mind. I'm just saying you did a great job, and that I think I'll buy this book.
Our great leader Sargon is right about this, as always.
Hail Sargon!!!!
DravenWolfe Blessed be you for hailing the name of our great leader!
Father Sargon is double plus good.
Rable rable rable~
As a former Jehovah's Witness that has watched many videos about cults I must firmly say this is the best one I have ever seen! You might mainly be quoting a book Sargon but you did an outstanding job! Ordering the book immediately.
I know it's been 5 years, but I'm just checking on you. I hope you have been able to find Jesus in a non-cult-related manor, the JW and the watchtower are horrible to grow up in and terrible examples of what the church is supposed to be.
Either way, I hope you're enjoying your life free of the cult.
@@SeanWintersJesus the founder of the World biggest cult
So you're telling me my cults will always fail because I am a nutjob? But I need money...
All hail Jim!
Big up Jim!
Lead us to the afterlife Lord Jim!
The Jim spreads his word in his videos, and evangelizes on my show. #shamelessselfpromotion
jim is the way, purge the impure
Future cult leaders take notes
Sam Your orders, master?
This is going to help me get my sex cult off the ground
I got a six pack of PBRs and a computer. Let's take over the world! :D
oh, i have been taking notes! i thought the eclipse would have been a great time to start one... i guess i'm not diabolical enough.
yet.
Lucas Martinez
OH CRAP. WE FOUND BAMN’S HOW TO VIDEO. 😂
This is one of Sargon's most important videos because it really delves into the roots of regressivism.
yet abstains from mentioning of regressivism :-)
The progressive left seems to be the beginnings of a new RELIGION.. Not a cult
in my opinion
Heres the common breakdown of a religion
1.The group worships a higher source of power rather than a single person.
2.There is a shared, sincere belief system.
3.The main belief or beliefs are consistent with basic mainstream standards for human dignity.
4. Appropriate forms of conduct between people are defined.
5. An understanding of evil is established, especially how it impacts humans.
6. There are sacred ritual acts.
I have a worry. With all of this discussion of cult behaviors, I fear that many anti-feminists also think in a cult-like manner, or cult like tendencies. For example, I see anti-feminists denounce feminists for simply being feminists, rather than looking at the ideas of each person. It is important to not be stuck in an echo chamber.
Hesus lol
I finished the video, and it is important to note that most groups are not cults, but that members can have cult-like behaviors. Obviously, these should be frowned upon.
Erik Sanderson
Everyone has to do it. There's nothing wrong with being biased just as a concept, just have reasons and evidence to back up the claims. I am biased that the earth is round, for example. People cannot be objective by nature, but they can get close at times.
Yes this, I have caught myself doing this a few times and had to apologise once I realised. It's difficult to not get sucked into the mob mentality, outrage is contagious no matter what side you're on.
Have to agree, it's a double edged sword. I wonder my self if a lot of us are indoctrinated accidentally. I mean Sargon would be a great cult leader, And a lot of us believe in his word like law. Heck brexit drove me mad when Sargon and thunderf00t had conflicting views, the group mentality was gone!
Well, I don't. But it's basically impossible to prevent that type of behavior on a large scale, this is the internet after all, people tend to take extreme positions just for the lulz.
Wish you would do more analysis like this.
I miss these old videos
This is a good opportunity to take an honest look at your own beliefs, whatever they are.
So *[group I disagree with]* in a nutshell right? Right? Right? Someone please validate me. What's "self-awareness"? Irony, what's that?
Underrated comment.
Yes I agree with you, so fucking much, I said fuck so you know it's real talk
kek
I disagree with people who butter their toast face up.
Those cunts need Jesus.
...I butter my toast face up...
It's scary how easily it is to fall into some of these.
Too true. The emotional calm and peace is really alluring.
Totally. It seems as though every kind of group could develop such a dynamic. Even and especially online communities surrounding a bigger TH-camr or a group of TH-camrs.
Remember what Sargon said, cult members are not "insane", or "crazy".
And, most groups are not cults, but members of a group might exhibit cult behaviour.
It is a flexible thing.
Hell, I even see some people here commenting like total cultists.
"The Sargon of Akkad cult" Don't deny it.
Some people around here...
He is only britt with a talent to express ideas and arguments, not a god.
I think that in-group/out-group thinking is almost impossible to avoid. Everyone thinks of themselves as being part of some group or clique. Even if it's very general such as "I'm a moderate" or "I'm an intellectual"
These thoughts don't necessarily make you part of a cult, but it never hurts to examine and evaluate your own behavior and beliefs.
Sargon, Thank you so much for video! Although I know the main point is to show how this correlates with the PC/SWJ mindset, and I understood that but I also took this from my personal experiences with cults.
Years ago my dad, was sucked into a two different cults in his life. The first cult (Jehovah Witnesses) he saved himself, they kicked him out cuz he asked too many questions. The second cult was much more emotionally manipulative, I managed to save him out of it by simply researching on the internet about the cult history (Seven Day Adventist). Again Like you and Dr Arthur Deikman mentioned, "People brainwashed by cults are NOT crazy." Indeed, many were regular people who were hitting hard emotional/financial transitions in thier life. My dad loss his mom, and had other hard ships, that made him vulnerable to cults. I now know more what caused those things to happen, and that this CAN happen to anyone, myself included. Seeing this video, made me see that. Thank you Sargon. I love your intellectual look not just the SJW/PC World and feminist but rather as the world in general. You're a breath of fresh air in a world of emotionally motivated lies.
Good on you for helping your father and putting the effort in to do so.
When cults become strong enough and begin to compete, they are often incompatible. I.e. the Jehova's witnesses under the Nazi regime opposed anti-semitism and the Nazi regime's warmongering, and so had their assets and property seized by the state, some members sent to death camps, and many forced into labour camps.
I hope you are doing well!
Citation needed
Thank you very much! My dad is doing much better now. And so is the rest of my family. :)
And yes from a historical point Jehova's Witnesses in Germany during WW2 where killed Nazi, since JW teaches it's followers do not serve in any military/government related groups.
Also on a brighter note :) I heard many young or new Jehova's Witness converts are leaving early, because of just researching them on the internet. It shows how much a blessing it is to have mountains of information at your finger tips!
GalaxyEspeon
Yes, hopefully they don't become neo-nazis though!
+math Yeah 0_0
The problem with cults is they think they're normal and everyone else is a cult. The hard part is first asking yourself if you're in a cult before you accuse others of it. You have to do it, because that's the first argument you'll get drawn into. And it won't be easy. You know by now, there is no judgment you can make on a cultist that won't be met with "No U!"
Ive watched this after your BAMN video and the similarities are breath-taking.
gomojo107 it's just a matter of time.
What a normie thing to say, which is unsurprising given your profile picture.
I was once in a cult - International Churches of Christ or ICOC. This perfectly describes what it was like. Fortunately, I wasn't in long. I was expected to stay up super late doing bible studies with potential members and at one point was told I wasn't praying eloquently enough, among other things.
lol not praying eloquently enough wtf did they expect
In Pentecostalism, i was kicked out of a prayer meeting because I wasn't praying loud enough.
Unfortunately, i was in that cult for a few years. Its astounding how quickly they hijack your world view.
The Ozian Indeed. They prey on people during hard times. I was depressed at the time I joined.
SocialMoth
Sorry you had to deal with that. I don’t pray out loud and I don’t like when someone expects me too. 😖
One of the reasons I don’t always go to a church is a lot of people agree on a lot and then expect the same of me.
I’d rather read the Bible and interpret it into my own understanding, not have people telling me what it says when I could just read it. Everyone is supposed to read the Bible and interpret it in their own understanding, not automatically believe someone else’s interpretation.
I wish I could join a cult but no one likes me :(
Then just invent your own reality. It's part of the cult life..
Please clap.
Maybe if you were high energy.
Nobody takes me seriously guys, everyone just make fun of me :(
You're a mess
"How to leave a cult" confirmed my belief that this is exactly how Islam has always functioned and why it is so difficult for Muslims to extricate themselves. Mohammed as the cult leader; Mohammed as the double-think father. The pervasive self-righteousness.
It's really how all religions function and sustain themselves. Christians are exactly the same as Muslims in the belief of "if you don't follow this religion, you'll burn in hell for all eternity", as well as most of the other evangelical religions.
+Dickweed McKenzie no Christians aren't like that. If you don't believe anything what others in the group do, then there is no harm in leaving. Hell people can just leave. Christians don't teach that you will go to hell if you aren't a Christian. Only if you are a bad person. But, yes for the most part religions are quite cult-like in their behavior. Especially Islam
Oh, it's quite essential to many religions. But you've got to admit, Mohammed was a true genius as a cult leader. Probably the finest of them all. I mean, just how many other cults have survived so unified in tenets and their subservience to the singular parent figure for well over a thousand years? I can't think of a single one, even among other religions.
+Blaze AP I'm pretty sure "not believing in God" is one of the greatest sins in Christianity
I believe that if you want to leave your Christian, Buddhist, Shinto, etc., you are free to do so without having to fear for your life. In Islam, if you dare to be an apostate, other Muslims are required to kill you. Correct me if you think that I am wrong.
We get it sargon you read books
He's Milo?
Good books at that :P
he is in his late 30s I guess, he has had enough time to accumulate a good amount of knowledge
kek. He's like ~28
Man Milo really looks different without all the makeup and hair dye
This reminds me of Eric Hoffer's book The True Believer. Hoffer described much of the same conditions listed by Deikman, noting that anyone is susceptible to the influences of a mass movement. Hoffer also noted that many of the people who become the most adamant adherents are those who essentially who feel inadequate and are frustrated by this. Hoffer states:
"The fanatic is perpetually incomplete and insecure. He cannot generate self-assurance out of his individual resources -- out of his rejected self -- but finds it only by clinging passionately to whatever support he happens to embrace. This passionate attachment is the essence of his blind devotion and religiosity, and he sees in it the source of all virtue and strength. [...] Still, his sense of security is derived from his passionate attachment and not from the excellence of his cause. The fanatic is not really a stickler to principle. He embraces a cause not primarily because of its justness and holiness but because of his desperate need for something to hold on to. [...] The fanatic cannot be weaned away from his cause by an appeal to his reason or moral sense. He fears compromise and cannot be persuaded to qualify the certitude and righteousness of his holy cause. But he finds no difficulty in swinging suddenly and wildly from one holy cause to another. He cannot be convinced but only converted."
It is intriguing to see how this plays out when applied to various groups, be it the obvious progressive left and far right, or to more basic situations like team rivalries or the bickering between Marvel and DC comic fans. It appears that while anyone can fall for these elements, it takes a certain level of insecurity for a person to become fanatical to the degree we see with extreme groups.
Very educational and informative. Thank you!
Eerily similar to the social justice movements today...
I think that's the point.
Nah man that would be too eerie. Eerie. Eerie, eerie, eeeeeerie, eireeeeeeeeeee haha what a word.
Not similar, identical.
It applies to all groups to some extent. Including anti-SJWs.
Eerily similar to all group identities.
I notice it's been up for 6 minutes, and despite being 35 minutes long already has 3 dislikes.
I wonder who just sits around waiting for those to upload videos they will immediately disagree with just to dislike immediately.
Or the cult members that up-voted immediately?
Maybe some sad fuck set up some bot accounts to repeatedly dislike all of Sargon's videos.
nomnomnomey Russian Hackers I bet.
+Mr.Demonarc Who isn't a Milo worshipper? Lol if he's a cult then I'm the high priest.
6doublefive3two1 Precisely.
This is perhaps the best video of yours I've ever seen
Faker! The real cenk would never open his mind
WE'RE AGAINST SAUDIA ARABIA YOU DUMBASS NOW WHERE IS MY PLANE!
Right?
How does a buffalo use the internet?
GET _____ THE ______ YOU FAT _______ !!
Cults are tribalism gone pathological.
I think that the most important thing to consider when analyzing cult behaviour is the attitude towards dissent, followed by devaluation of outsiders. The other two seem to be two deeply ingrained features of collectives in general.
When you realize that either side on this 'culture war' can be analyzed by/with this cult behavior, you shit bricks.
Correct. Western civilization is split up in many parts who are in fight with each other. Muslims are 85% Sunni. And where I live they don't care about that either, they stick together no matter what.
I'm not in a cult, YOU'RE in a cult!!
That's what the video literally says, shit brick.
Either side? Hardly. Fix your lense.
Thats why I tried to give up politics
The hype I have had for this video after hearing about on livestreams, huge thanks for consistently great content and now I wait for your next video showing how SJWs are in a cult!
All aboard the hype train!
Wooooh!
Hmm, that's odd. Why do you think this video is about SJWs? Look at the 4 characteristics of cult behavior at 3:00 again. They describe AiU and his automatons perfectly.
We're probably exhibiting a fair amount of this behaviour as well, especially with regards to avoiding dissent. I would expect Sargon more to use this lens to keep an eye on himself and his audience.
+A Quite Obese Pig I'm sure he checks on himself, but expects the audience to do the same. Like that he's less of a parental leader. He won't baby us.
It's not about creating an intellectual space. It's not. It's about creating a home, here.
Scary, isn't it?
+Sargon of Akkad sargon how often do you shitpost m8
Now that I think about it, it's such a weird statement too. Did she just have a home where she was entitled to agreement? Did her parents just agree with her all the time and change their opinions as soon as she threw a tantrum or something?
Oh wait, they probably did.
+Sargon of Akkad Scary as hell...
And the scariest thing is the "leader" for SJWs is not a physical being. It is an idea...
And not an inherrently bad one.
But one whose perception was twisted to fit into "omnipotence" fantasy...
This makes things worse... a physical person can stumble and fail followers' expectations. Or he/she can die...
None of theese can happen to an idea...
+Hugga "It's not about creating an intellectual space. It's not. It's about creating a home, here." ABSOLUTELY NAILED IT. :D
One of the best videos that I've learned about cults from is the audio recording of the final moments of the Jonestown Massacre, because you get to hear both the leader, the cult members, and actual individuals waking up from the cult all talking about perhaps the final step of conformation to cult behavior; suicide. It's a great clip, and I'd recommend it, but it is a bit disturbing.
The thing is you can apply a lot of these traits to almost any group of people.
I haven't read the book, but from its title and the wording of many of these quotes, I'd assume that's part of the point.
Nonsense. You need less crazy friends.
+gomojo107 you sound like my father repeating the same conservative mantras his father told him. It's not that black and white. The only thing I can point out from that statement that I actually agree with is saying that sums up the neo-progressives. Socialism is an essential aspect of our society as is capitalism, and if you actually watch Sargon more than when bashes SJWs or talks about Trump you would know liberals are not a bunch of authoritative dependents who want big government, the authoritative left wants that, aka neo-progressives.
If you had watched the video you would have seen him say that it's a matter of how far these things go.
I couldn't watch this. I lost my girlfriend of 6 years to the religious cult her family got into. She was basically the only financial supporter of the family but they were willing to utterly disown her and go into ruin if she didn't leave me and join the cult. I could have joined the cult and kept her, but then I'd be betraying myself to the core.
Emotional blackmail is the mainstay of the Jehovah's Witnesses. It destroys families, it ruins lives.
I know someone that is (was?) a Jehovah Witness. He is gay but he can't admit it to his family for obvious reasons. His family would also encourage him to cut ties with his closet friends because apparently Jehovah Witnesses are supposed to only hang out with other members and not "outsiders". He never did (yay!) and eventually was able to start working and moved out. He still won't come clean because he is afraid that he will lose his family. I'm sorry for what you had to go through, it's terrible that this religion has so much power over people. I'm glad you stood your ground though.
My friend was told by his jehovahs witness mother that he couldn't make any friends at school and it was at that moment that he decided he would make as many friends as possible.
I used to know a guy who's mom is a Jehovah's Witness and she was fucking insane. As far as I know he is still doing fine himself and hasn't joined them though.
Admit it, this video is about No Man's Sky fans.
nah, I was thinking more like Pokemon go players
Nah, the PokeGo players are just gamers exploring a new medium. They're cool.
Buyers remorse
@Farscryer0, if they're so cool, then why are they murdering eachother and "finding" dead bodies all over the place?
There's more going on there than meets the eye.
Fallout NV is the best rpg ever made and i wont hear any backtalk >:c
Sargon, it's almost inevitable that our unofficial community here is exhibiting cult behaviour, given how strong and contrarian our views often are. Are you going to be using this lens to introspect yourself and your own audience?
Do you ever see me encouraging anything approaching cult behaviour?
It doesn't actually sound like it needs to be encouraged. I think it takes root in almost every group, looking at the behavioural indicators. But I think communities caught up in this "culture war" are going to be especially vulnerable to group mentality forming, simply due to the intensity of the discourse. I'm really taken in by this, to the point that I think I'll buy the book; mainly because in a community that prides itself on its rationality, this kind of intellectual corrosion is something that everybody needs to be on guard for.
yes
Jumping into the convo here: based on the characteristics outlined in the book, compliance, dependance and avoiding dissent are not characteristics one sees often in our unofficial community. 1) Most content creators ask their followers not to harass the people they are criticizing and yet some still do- that's not compliance. 2) While people do often look to content creators to digest major issues, a lot of members do their own research on topic and often offer suggestions for new content or different analysis' of the issue at hand- that's not dependance on a leader. 3) Arguments happen all the time on the comment sections, especially when people are shocked by the opinions of content creators or have their own beliefs that run contrary to the beliefs/actions of content creators- proof that we somewhat embrace dissent. So unless I'm perceiving the comment poorly I'd have to argue that MAYBE the only characteristics we see often is 3...and even that can be proven false. Thoughts?
GRAMMAR POLICE CORRECTION: in* the comment sections...
This might be my favorite video of yours. Excellent breakdown. Always remember this.
Since I am an intense introvert, groups and cults have always been anathema to me. I've never seen the attraction of "belonging" or of being told what to do or who to like or dislike.
I find clubs and groups somewhat silly, and the inevitable rules and restrictions intolerable.
Perhaps a little madness isn't such a bad thing after all. :)
Yup. But, curiously, even though personally interacting with other people is something I have little interest in, observing social behaviour in others is one of my greatest interests. There's few things more fascinating than cults for me.
The reason christianity in particular never jived with me is because I really do not like being lorded over like that. I have little problem with authorities, just the attempt to remove all my rights and responsibilities.
hell, this personality quirk of mine is probably why I never went along with feminism
"I find clubs and groups somewhat silly, and the inevitable rules and restrictions intolerable."
*Generally introverts describe groups in terms of too much information to process because introverts don't squelch sensory information inputs as extroverts do. eg crowds are too bright, too loud, too complex.*
Dai, I had not heard it put that way. I have always had a problem with large groups. Even as a small child I would slip away. "too much information to process" might be so. I know as the son of a cop I am always shocked when people don't see the fight in the bar two tables away. Most times I had been aware of the confrontation LONG before the first loud voice. I often spot the lost kid in a crowd, the dropped purse, or the old man having trouble getting his breath because I'm watching the crowd rather then the concert, act, etc.
Saoirse "I had not heard it put that way."
*Susan Cain summarizes the research well in her work [Quiet, The Power of Introverts in a World that Can't Stop Talking,2012, Cain].*
*She likely did some TH-cam videos and Ted Talks for her book tour.*
*She highlights the exceptionalism in which some introverts have excelled at in a western extroverted society.*
"I am always shocked when people don't see the fight in the bar two tables away."
*Elaine Aron's research on introversion heightened sensitivity would expand on those experiences.*
"because I'm watching the crowd rather then the concert"
*Introverts tend to have a very wide sense input and not block things as extroverts do. That can be exhaustive and overwhelming for an introvert, relative to what a extrovert is ignoring, but offers the advantage of access to more information. Introverted traits are highly valued in the right career choices.*
*Hans Eysenck described is with "over-stimulation" and Kagan with "high-reactivity".*
This was highly insightful because it refreshed the importance of self critique.
It would be great for the lotus eaters to revisit this topic (if not yet) with the outstanding critical thinking skills that you lads have to offer.
I say you're the Messiah, Sargon, and I should know, I've followed a few.
Only the true Messiah denies his divinity!
All Hail Sargon of Akkad, Messiah of the Brave New World! /On a side note, I do feel better already. He might be on to something here...
His Shoe! He left us his Shoe! It is a sign!
I am going to make a cult where you worship chicken burgers.
How dare you blaspheme the almighty spaghetti monster! Pastafarianism will be the ONE TRUE RELIGION
Dakota I DECLARE HOLY WAR ON YOUR FALSE GOD "THE ALMIGHTY SPAGHETTI MONSTER" AND PASTAFARIANISM!!!!
I ate your chicken burger.
Dakota Welcome to the cult
That's my line now, you shall be my first. Chicken Prime
I prefer to brainwash myself, not have a master to do that
I have always felt that cult like behavior is rooted in deeply primal survival strategies of early human groupings into small units, clans, that needed to be in complete agreement as to what was 'going on' around them. Leaders and spokespeople evolved and it isn't a long stretch to gain understanding of the institutionalization of dominance in all kinds of structures in civilization. This modern perversion is today's version of a very old trait.
Okay Sargon,
I watched a bunch of your video's.
It's been a long time that I was that entertaint . So much knowledge.
And it never gets boring. You discuss everything. I love it. Thank you
Really missing alot of these old time videos.
WE ARE THE HAMMERITES! THE BUILDER AND THE FIRES OF THE FORGE HAVE CREATED US INTO HIS LOYAL SERVANTS!
Great comment right here.
Big Boss Thief is great dude
+Alexandra
For some reason your comment was taken down as spam (even though it wasn't) and now I'm getting errors for whenever I try to unmute it.
Pleeeeease beee waaarned, a misguided soooul, aaaaaaall should heeear the wooords of Karras, the wooords of Karras.
I'm subscribing
so glad I wasn't the only one watching this thinking "this can be applied here as well".
It's like half the comments
Hardly. You can question any of us as much as you want, none of us who is worth his/her salt will demonize you for the very act of it, none of us will tell you you cant fend without us and we will let you leave in peace and make nothing of it.
+Dzonatan Gavert Not in the way that this is a cult, but in the way that most communities display cult behaviour. But that's entirely normal, it depends on the degree and the nature of the community if it's harmfull.
Of course idealy as less as possible is preferable.
Excellent video by the way. I was born into a cult, and managed to get out as a teenager thanks to my peers criticizing my beliefs, sparking my free will to draw my own conclusions about my beliefs.
Almost everything said was true, except my cult was a bit more peaceful about people leaving, and was non violent in general.
The part where it's said "People who break away from cults need therapy for traumatic experience" : hits home for me. The literal physical impact of the stress I felt from leaving the cult has probably riddled me anxiety issues for much of my early adulthood and 20's, and probably still affects me today. Once you leave a cult, and accept your own free will, it's like your whole world is turned upside down, death is no longer safe, life is no longer safe, much of your entire social circle rejects you, your own family disowns you, etc... It's a lot. Took a big dive into various subjects of philosophy at that point.
Anyway, anxiety or whatever, it's all worth the trouble. You only got one shot at life, and for as much of it as possible: I want to live it while being in control of my own destiny and fuck-ups. Don't want to name the cult because I'm not a fan of giving out personal info ;D
Hey Sargon, I'm an amateur writer, and am currently writing a book which prominently features a cult. I realized I needed to actually read up on cults/study them in order to write this one with any kind of authenticity or resonance, and this video, as well as the case studies one have provided an excellent starting point and foundational knowledge of cults and cult behaviour, so just wanted to say thank you for taking the time to make these videos. Seriously appreciate it!
Na-na na-na na-na na-na Sargon
Na-na na-na na-na na-na Sargon
Sargon
Sargon
Batman
I mean, Sargon
I fucking love that episode.
It was back when The Simpsons was still the best thing on TV
But Sargons the riddler.
Sub box refresh squad whoop whoop!
we out here
Dang im late
moscar11 what?
Sam Blake Stale meme. Try again, fampai.
Get a soul, Jack.
Cult behavior is a subset of human hierarchical systems, such as governments, companies, and society. The only difference between cult behavior and human sociological behavior is that cults are more inclusive and are ironically escapes from human sociological behavior. In truth, such individuals escape an abstract "cult" to a more inclusive cult that allows the individual to feel safe and even important.
Certain types of shamanism, mystics, and more lonesome/schizophrenic types tend to seek truth as a form of ecstasy, and imo are the most inclusive cults it can get as they are on their own. All human groups seek the truth to justify their existence and thus give them some form of importance, it just varies on the spectrum of inclusiveness and those asserting their dominance in leader roles (which reinforces their near omnipotent role in the group). The loner extreme is their own leader. Society trickles down from a chosen leader. It is all relative.
Very good analysis. Let me ask you this, is it a cult if you can leave with no hard feelings? I've always asked myself this when joining a group.
Hectar Savoie Thank you.
Well, leaving without hard feelings doesn't change the fact that the group you are functions under the same rules that cults and other sociological groups are governed under. Be it a football team, a company, or even the CIA. I would say your feelings are irrelevant to the rules at play, it just means you aren't as effected as others would.
I agree. "Deprogramming" is simply socialization (i,e. brainwashing) into the cult of the greater society. Of course, small authoritarian isolated groups are more often than not dangerous and abusive in my opinion. Being willingly controlled by another is bad.
I was a member of a teenage drug and alcohol "rehabilitation" program that was just one big cult. It insisted that members cease all contact with former acquaintances, usually insisted new members live with established members for a few months, mocked people outside of the group as "normies" and "white-bread", held all-night events multiple times a week that included staring into one anothers eyes speechless for a number of minutes or sitting in a circle and telling everyone how much you love them and painted you as selfish if you did not participate or lying and hiding some fault if your participation was not deemed adequate, encouraged members to drop out of school and participate in all day events consisting of more intense versions of the same things. Any questioning of the group was seen as arising from selfish motives and all members of the group would aggressively argue and question until the person rescinded his claims and admitted he was being selfish. I remember as a group making a 20 year old man break down and cry in front of us three days in a row because we didn't see him as participating enough. He wasn't even doing anything wrong, he was just quiet and we were all a little bored so we just bullied him. It was run by an ego maniac who would interrupt all manners of conversations whether personal or in a group and profanely criticize our character and our motives and explain why he knew what we should do and why we should know too if only for our extreme selfishness. This man was not even a liscensed counselor and had no business running a group like this. There was a claim that there was no inherent belief in the group, but we all prayed the same way, all prayed for the relief of the same guilt imposed upon us by the leader and the group as a whole, and any mention of an established religion was sneered at. Really, anything with a lot of thought behind it was sneered at. Philosophy, history, propriety, all things that could help a troubled group of people and have been positive forces in society for centuries were discounted as being fake and impersonal. I had multiple friends commit suicide while in the group and many more who entered only having drinken or smoked pot and left smoking meth or doing hard drugs. The sexual environment was akin to a brothel; every week multiple new sexual partners would surface. Oftentimes, legal age restrictions were totally ignored and girls as young as 14 were having sex with men age 20. There was one example of a 20 year old man shoving his penis into the mouth of a sleeping 13 year-old newcomer who had only been around for a couple of weeks, and it was encouraged by the other members as funny. Normal behaviors and interests like humor, school, and family were seen as contrarian to the group and members would usually have to abandon all such interests, or incorporate them into the group for the whole group to enjoy. It was the most horrible 2+ years of my life, and gave me great difficulty adjusting to common society once I left. The group still exists and I still have friends in it.
Hey Sargon, this is will be my first time posting. I recently left a cult. I mean leaving is probably not the right word... I got kicked out of the cult. I lost all contact with my childhood friends and most of my family (everyone but my sister) and if it wasn't for my college friends that helped me out after I was on the street I don't know what would have happened. Lately I started considering returning to the cult, it's true that most of what they said about the outside world isn't true and I was miserable while in there, but I wasn't alone like I am now. However, listening to this video I finally identified them as being a cult and for some reason that gave me the strength I needed to give up on that suicidal idea. I just wanted to say thank you and keep up the good work, I'm so glad I found you.
I hope you’re doing better homie.
@@MrDarthtelos Eridiath is no longer allowed access to the internet without his minder.
"Devaluing the outsider is probably the most common cult-like behavior in everyday society, where it takes the form of regarding one's opponents as if they were a homogeneous group"
Kind of reminds me of the people who refer to everyone they dislike as "regressive" or "sjw".
I'd just just dispense with the idea of 'sides', if in any way possible, personally. The divide you are talking about here is in itself just another example ingroup-outgroup bias, in the end.
SootShade You're right most people are not completely "left" or "right", however the distinction, I believe, is not entirely arbitrary or unnecessary, though it can be used inappropriately to create a cult-like mentality within particular groups.
The thing is, though. 'Regressive' or 'sjw' are pretty narrow terms and only apply to people in the far corner of authoritarian left. That's like... 1/8th-1/12th of the political spectrum. A better example of cult-like name calling would be what the 'regressive' and 'sjw' people do, which is call everyone in the out-group 'right-wing'; even though plenty would consider themselves left-wing.
Probably important to point out that many SJW self-identify as such. It's not me putting them in that group, when they proudly declare and justify it themselves.
We describe them as such because that's what they OBJECTIVELY are. They prone regressive laws and behaviors, and they fight for "social justice" (an oxymoron, only personal justice exists)...
Having a bias doesn't mean that bias is wrong. If anything the ONLY thing that differentiate us from SJWs is that we fight for the right of even our enemies to be able to express themselves and question us.
Unfortunately, they don't reciprocate.
Sargon, you disappoint. When you said, "The greater good." you didn't chant, "the greater good" afterwords.
If you see a Jonestown video you will notice the scary similarities with current day Sjw groups.
Hopefully they follow the same trajectory.
Well all they wanted was a place away from all the racism and dissenting viewpoints in American society. Jonestown was a perfect sort of safespace.
Very safe. Until the Kool Aid came out.
*****
But the Kool Aid was just to protect them from torture from evil US paratroopers, that's how they could justify murdering their own children.
Well they're both radical socialsm groups with an "with us or against us" mentality
Excellent video -- feel like I got the pointers I needed to start my own group. Cheers guys, keep you updated!
For decades I have believed that nationalism, religion, music scenes,
capitalist marketing, politics , and of course, the thinly veiled modern
Marxism movement, are based on targeting the "need to belong".
This human trait can actually lead people to disassociate from reality,
and defend the fantasy. This needs to be known, understood, and called
out. Please listen to this intro on the topic and research these
concepts so you won't fall victim to irrational people or groups who are
trying to force their fantasy upon your freedom's of speech and will.
Please do audiobooks
> Makes video about cults
> Uses picture of himself as golden idol
I see what you did thar...
So, basically when I was a Mormon, I was part of a cult-lite.
This analysis is spot on. I have experienced most of the things described here when I did my time in the church. I have been suckered into a christian cult the exact way described here. Even though neither myself nor my family was religious. Back then I thought I was immune to religion, but they have their ways to get you. If you are not aware of emotional manipulations and mind games they play on you, If you are not prepared to think critically, then you can be very voulnerable. I wasn't prepared and they made me into a raging fanatic. It took 10 years of my life before I managed to get some actual knowledge and learn how to think for myself to see it all for the scam it was. Now I also consider getting some form of theraphy. I am able to live a normal life for the most part, but the anger and regret for being such a sucker still makes me loose my shit when I start thinking about it. When I recall all the bulshit I believed and how zelous I was to preach it to others...
I was going to make a video like this... but now I see you hit all the major points, so I'll just send people here.
does this remind anyone else of social justice
12 34 12 34 Obviously yes, and one of the worst things is the sjw movement does not have one identifyable leader, it's a monster with many heads.
It reminds me of most political movements of today on all sides.
@@iamhereblossom1588 yeah I can definitely agree with that lol
29:18 "To leave a cult..." In many respects 'Atheism' aligns with the 6 points raised.
Yeah. Honestly the lack of critical thinking in the old atheist community is what led to the disaster known as Atheism+
Atheism has basically become a religion of its own.
The cult of Atheism is the reason I don't like conversations that lead to me telling people I'm and atheist...
indeed
Just to set the record straight; I made that comment & I'm Atheist. :)
I gotta say, I see some elements of devaluating opposition; if I ever disagree with Sargon and write so in the comments section, I always feel the need to preface my critique with something like "Just so you know, I've always been a huge fan and almost always agree with you Sargon, but-". Maybe it's just me, but I feel like if I don't do that people will just write me off as an SJW and flame me. Again, could just be me, great vid!
Yeah I've seen that sort of thing too. I think there is always an element of devaluing the outsider when you are engaged in a battle of ideas, but we should at least be aware of it.
That video is as interesting as I'm used to seeing on this channel, but man, you really to add clip-long background noise, the transitions between audio segments are really jarring.
Yeah, I am aware of it. I personally am not afraid of criticising even people I still respect. Also Hi Sargon :D
Actually, I kinda want to mention something along the lines of criticism towards a small aspect of the video.
I want to add my own personal insight in regards to this video on term "Cult-Like Behaviour".
I feel it isn't accurate to associate the idea of Cult like behaviour as being a symptom of all groups, but should instead be seen as the extreme of group social interactions. Because classifying more normal interactions as being cult-like could end up making groups seem inherently "somewhat Cult-like" rather than the normal position.
Basically, I think only the extreme variations of these normal behaviours (Which then become abnormal due to extremism) should be the only behaviour referred to as Cult Behavior.
I know, this really is a smaller point, but I think the wording in this case might make people get the concept a bit better (I understood it completely, and I this really is a Rewording for clarification since they both say basically the same thing, but it might help)
Tell me what you think :D
Holy shit... it was yesterday that sent a link of "To honour the dissidents" to a friend of mine, while discussing the nuisances of the whole world-covid collective madness. And on 3:03 you can clearly see that one of the aspects of a cult is the avoiding of dissenting voices. So, there is a method to all the madness.
Solid video. I've been studying Cults for the last five years and it has been pretty eye-opening.
I'm only a few minutes in, so this might get answered, but is there a reason a nation cannot be a cult? I can think of a few that check all the boxes.
No, you can have nationalist cults because there is a clear leader, in group and out group.
Probably too large.
the homogeny required
A nation can be a cult. North Korea for example.
Like pre-WWII Japan?
9 minutes in and this seems more like an explanation rather than an analysis. Sargon doesn't disagree, offer alternative approaches, or note logical or statistical problems with the author's argument. Hope it gets better.
16 minutes in, still no analysis, this is a summary of the book in question, not an analysis. Where is your critical thinking here Sargon? I was really looking forward to you actually analysing the ideas, not just doing what amounts to an abridged book reading. :-(
29 minutes in "the author offers 6 behaviours".... so...what do you think of the ones he chose? Do the author's assertions hold up to modern stats and evidence? ZERO analysis here Sargon... I am disappointed.
[Paraphrase of quote.] "Quote:" [The quote.]
Exactly, rr3dd, there was no analysis at all. Lame. And a waste of time.
Too stupid to do it yourself dave?
This just sounds like hes breaking down the Imperium of man and their worship of the Emperor
Heresy.
blah! loyalist dog. blood for the blood god, skulls for the skull thorn!
WALKING CATACLYSM
Dammit, I liked this planet. oh well, bring on the cyclonic torpedoes.
WALKING CATACLYSM Sorry, always been a true loyalist at heart, chaos aint tainting this soul
+Skyla Jade Forster (Sky) Have you ever lost something?
Excellent well thought out and presented breakdown of this subject. I'll be buying that book "The wrong way home". It sounds like a very relevant topic with all that's going on in the world today. Great job.
Maybe the most interesting viedeo you have made up to now. It got me thinking a lot and I'll have to watch it again. Thank you Sargon!
There is a missing ingredient somewhere as these aspects apply to almost all groups.
Some apply to most groups, it's rare that all apply to a single group. These behaviours act off each other and raise the intensity of the dependency of the relationship, and it becomes a cult.
Or associate with many groups, including opposing ones.
"The test of a first-rate intelligence is the ability to hold two opposing ideas in mind at the same time and still retain the ability to function." F. Scott Fitzgerald
I think its more the intensity and prevalence of the ingredients that causes the cult to form. A cake wont rise properly if there is too little flour and a cult wont arise if the conditions don't give it a niche.
Unfortunately we currently live in a world absolutely overflowing with flour.
I was just using a little metaphor to sum up the basics of the situation.
It is a lot more complex and multifaceted but I'm not writing a dissertation here, I'm providing a alternate viewpoint for notstayinsdowns to chew over.
+Daniel H
Actually I don't think so. Many religions do give people a sense of community and moral guidance, but I believe the difference between a religion and a cult is one is a part of your life and the other is your life.
For example, Catholicism requires you observe holidays, go to Church once a week, pray, and you confess your sins. There is no push to cut your self off from people of other beliefs and dissenting views are tolerated within the Church to an extent.
Not saying that religion is good, but I am saying that there is a real difference between a cult and a religion.
You can say this for any sport group.
A cult can be made of anything, but a group is not a cult, a religion is not a cult. The cult comes from the cultist, and a collection of cultists makes a cult. The cause is just a vehicle for the cult to use, a moral justification to hide behind and rationalise their behaviour.
They are not mentally disabled (or as you say, crazy), but they *are* personality disordered, mentally ill (conditioned behaviour/have learnt the wrong lessons from experiences). They are *damaged*. The problem exists within them, not only their abuser (they were either damaged before-hand and changed, or were damaged and changed by their abuser).
Without resolving it, a person will go from one cult to another. For example, Laci Green was raised as a "super-Mormon", escaped from that cult and then went on to become a feminist/sjw cultist. It is the EXACT same as how a dependent will go from one relationship with a narcissist to another, because that is what it IS.
A cult is a collection of the personality disordered:
The master/slaves (cluster b personality disordered/psychopath/narcissist types: narcissist, borderline, antisocial, histrionic. I make you feel bad so you do what I want, I lie/manipulate to impose my will upon others, and to appease those higher up the ladder so that I may climb) who are predator and prey at the same time to one another, fighting for dominance in a hierarchy.
The slaves (co-dependents. I do what you want me to in order to feel good, I lie to appease my master and impose upon/manipulate those who stop me from serving them).
What's the difference between a religion and a cult? As an outsider, it seems to me the primary difference seems to be subscribership count and a secondary measure might be whether some visible fraction claim to believers without actually being practitioners.
+ExaltedDuck The number of followers matters, because the larger a group becomes, the harder it is to keep it an echo chamber. Also, the lack of a concrete dogma or, in the case of the abrahamic religions, a fractured, frequently contradictory dogma means that the foundational beliefs are subject to interpretation, therefore preventing that inceptional self-release to the unchallengeable ideas of the group (which, as we said, is too large for cohesion).
But cult-like behaviour is the de-facto trait of the ideologue, the follower and the devout. It just shifts in relation to the "leader figure". In ideology, that is the foundational idea, in religion it's the "word of god"; in a cult, that's the actual, physical leader.
"Religion is not a cult". Clearly you've never heard of Islam.
(sorry if this is a little messy) A religion is a system of societal governance, a moral philosophy, a path to enlightenment and a way of life.
A cult is the manifestation of a dysfunctional/damaged understanding of morality and of the self: dependency, narcissism, fear, attaching your ego and identity to an idol (lidolatry), projecting blame for your pain and failings upon another as scape-goat and therefore justify "revenge" against them, in-group/out-group collectivism, bullying, social ostracism, elitism, thinking of yourself as a victim, playing/supporting the victim to look good, zealotry, the rejection of accountability/responsibility, entitlement, bullying and emotional manipulation.etc.
A cult will also talk of enlightenment, but "enlightenment"; through a cult is to follow a dogma/lie and become concrete in seeing the world through the cult's perceptual bias (such as the sjw concept of "woke"). It is the absolute opposite of enlightenment, as it is to be fooled into removing accountability/responsibility from yourself for the role you played in your own downfall and instead shift the blame onto a phantom menace. In stopping you from holding yourself accountable for the mistakes you have made, giving you an excuse to avoid suffering by lying to yourself, it prevents you from ever learning from them; it stops you from attaining true enlightenment, which is gained by doing exactly that (learning the lessons from your experiences).
This behaviour has been incorrectly identified as being in itself religious, but it can be applied to anything (favourite sports team, console, genre of music).
A confusion is often made between religion and cult, because cultists so often profess themselves as devoutly religious in order to claim moral superiority; being the most loud, zealous and puritanical. They hold their belief as proof of them being good; to think that a belief in God makes them good and clever (in-group), while those who do not/believe in another, are bad and stupid by default (out-group).
If for instance you attach your ego/identity to Jesus as an idol (idolise), you project your idealised self upon him and draw vicarious power (moral/intellectual infallibility/freedom from fault) as if to gain the credit for his achievements (my team won the game!). It is to think "I am good because I believe in Jesus", rather than being a good person yourself and seeing Jesus as a hero outside of yourself, an example of how to behave.
Because you have bound your self-worth/identity to the idol, when it is challenged you are vicariously wounded to the core of your being (insulting Mohammed), so will defend it in order to defend the lie you keep to yourself; that they are perfect and thus you are perfect because you live through them.
Feminism/social-justice are political ideologies; they are not religions, but they are cults.
If a person defines their identity by being part of a group, "one of us" cannot possibly do wrong, as if one does wrong, then all be association are tarnished. The honour of the wrongdoer will be defended to the dying breath (while all evidence to the contrary is denied). The existence of their affiliation to the group will be denied (not a real Muslim/feminist etc.). The acknowledgement of a problem will be avoided, by conflating the guilty with the innocence of other members of the group (not all Muslims/feminists etc.), or by conflating with the guilt of members of other groups (bring up old issues like kkk when talking about modern day terrorists, equate to muddy the water).
If I stroke your ego, give you my approval, make you feel good, then I threaten to take my approval away, making it conditional upon you agreeing with me, this causes you to seek my approval by agreeing with what I say.
You do not need to be indoctrinated, nor need a leader who is a con-artist, as it comes from inside of you. Cults are a natural part of damaged human behaviour: dependence and narcissism. To be approved of and to think of yourself as blameless by lying to yourself and others. They are self-establishing and perpetuating.
GeorgeMonet Islam is a religion which contains a number of cult mechanics. It creates a damaged society through the enabling of crime, producing people who are traumatised, "lost" (which gives them the yearning to be whole, which can be exploited by providing them with a saviour from themselves; an ideology to bind their ego/identy to. Because they feel terrible about themselves, they vicariously live through that instead as a substitute for their own self-worth).
However, a religion itself is not a cult.
Possible one of the best videos on the youtube. Thanks Sargon.
Excellent choice of topic. Good work. Thanks for sharing.
So as far as I can tell the book is not capable of defining a cult objectively. Cult like behavior exists in any social group and the only way to differentiate between a cult and a regular group is to establish some sort of intensity threshold.
Does the book brings any objective information at all except for the interviews? I mean things like age, gender or social classes that are more or less susceptible for cult like behavior. Or some kind of analysis of cults among different cultures and historical periods?
Anyway that's some interesting stuff.
I'm not interested in actual cults. I'm more fascinated (and much more concerned) by the way this behaviour manifests more faintly in almost everyone.
I think that is simply a consequence of the fact that cult behaviour is simply not something that can be easily distinguished from regular human social interaction, which is exactly what makes it so insidious.
"So as far as I can tell the book is not capable of defining a cult objectively."
*The dysfunction in "cultism" is it's based on pretending. Pointing at a group of people that pretend is a objective thing. eg Socialism is a cult of people pretending government is daddy and society is family. It's impossible for a society to be family. eg Dunbars Number. To be an authority in government is to do psychopathic tasks, that's the lest functional thing a "daddy" could be.*
Even groups can exhibit different degrees of intensity in authoritarian group behavior at different times. A small baptist church may be a "cult" one decade and later change its structure of authority. Also, individuals with a need provided by a cult environment may try to fulfill those needs in an environment that is not authoritarian at all. For example, a baptist church that is not authoritarian or isolated may have one or two members who try to push it in that direction to satisfy their own needs.
Nerthus The dysfunction in "cultism" is it's based on pretending.
"A small baptist church may be a "cult" one decade and later change its structure of authority."
*People pretend ANYTHING. Don't do that, simple.*
"a cult environment may try to fulfill those needs"
*PRETEND NEEDS aren't a physical need. Pretending again.*
"For example, a baptist church that is not authoritarian or isolated may have one or two members who try to push it in that direction to satisfy their own needs."
*There are three fundamental types of human relationships. 1. commonality: as in what is mine is your and yours is mine, we are one. 2. reciprocity: as in the tit for tat exchanges in a market. 3 dominance (authoritarian): do as authority says or else physical violence will be done.*
*It is possible for 2 person to be any of those three relationships or none.*
*The dysfunction in "cultism" is it's based on pretending. eg Socialism is a cult of people pretending government is daddy and society is family. The "pretend" part of that is why it can't function as described, socialism is IMPOSSIBLE as described for more than 150 people. (Dunbars Number).*
Well, luckily, Unitology isn't like these lesser cults; Altman be praised!
Just kidding, lol. You can put down the plasma cutter...
Literally islam, checks every box.
literally maga, checks every box
@@yuh1247 Does it feel good being a done? Being so brainwashed you cant think straight?
@@yuh1247 I can see an argument for point two, maga is kinda dependant on their defacto leader to run the country, but beyond that, I haven't seen any Trumpers who fit the other categories.
Fascinating.
Lovely food for thought, Sargon.
Thanks for your work!
My brother is part of a cult. He's not evil or crazy, just weak. He's always been a simple minded mamma's boy. We still love him, but there's no pulling him out of it because of how anemic he is to other points of view. He's constantly threatening to disappear and never talk to us again if we push him. So for the sake of our parents, my other siblings and I just leave him be.
So can the SJW movement be classified as cult-like even though they have no designated leaders?
And what could be viewed as 'leader' replacement? The general ideology?
Well, isn't the leader technically the guy the highest up the progressive stack within a reasonable distance?
I'm guessing that the movement itself is the leader, they do what they do for the group, and the people within the group treat everyone else like a parent " your doing so well, keep it up" etc, so everyone else would be the parent to you, and you would reciprocate that, but everyone not in the group would be ones who don't treat you like a child, so they would endanger the mindset. also, people like anita sarkeesian, the people telling them what to think would be the leaders. what I'm saying is that feminism etc is more like the catholic church, you do everything for God, and there is a group of people who are different (opinion wise) but who tell people what to think, there is no one leader, but still a hierachy and dependancy on the group itself.
though they have no designated leaders, their supposed leaders are pretty obvious: Anita Sarkeesian and Johnathon Mcintosh are the leaders of the feminists, for example.
iggyking6 I think they act more as a personal pope, people believe them to be the most enlightened while those below his authority do all the real legwork (justification etc), so feminism is disorganised, but it's a bit like the banality of evil, where they'll do things for the greater good of the organization itself, kind of like the nazi's
or communist russia
You could almost substitute "female nature" wherever he says "cult behavior" and it still makes sense.
Nah
holy shit, am I...first? oh this is amazing
please clap
Jazz hands!
+ske00 jizz hands!
Really interesting. Gonna watch the follow up now. Let me also say that I try my best to expose myself to views I don't agree with. Your channel is a good example, some of your videos I agree with 100% and others not so much, but I am subscribed anyway because I like your delivery and even where we disagree your points are well made.
Dat end music XD
Wow this was a great video! I would love to see you do more videos like this!
Funny, cults are the original safe spaces. HAHAHAHAHAH
BLM in a nutshell
#CrackDivesBatter
It's delicious on fish!
Hey this is off topic but I think I saw that thumbnail before, you go on bungie.net?
Roger Hardy I don't remember where I stole it.
OK it's just that I remember one of the mods on there having an avatar like that one.
I'm pretty sure that's Dr. McNinja
And this is why I listen to you even when I don't agree with you, Sargon. You speak of adversaries in a negative light, but you do not exempt yourself from criticism. You recognize your fallibility. You accurately represent your opposition's views to the best of your ability. You consider the validity of your adversary's view BEFORE discarding it, and you re-evaluate that view in the light of additional information (which few of the opposition are presenting, unfortunately). You take a critical look at your own position. I have no idea how you treat potential dissidents that leave your side. You do seem to feel self-righteous, though. :P
Anyway. You are the opposite of a cult in your thinking, and that makes your views more nuanced and worth considering where a cult's views lack nuance and grounding. Thank you for all your hard work, Sargon. You have served me, personally, as a platform to awareness of social issues and a springboard to asking questions I didn't know to ask.
watching all your videos this weekend / listening while doing weekend chores. your awesome .....
everyone is talking about SJW's and feminists bus anyone think of religion? especially Islam and Christianity...
**cough*AIU*cough**
Oh, now i understand the American democratic party.
Awesome video, Sargon! Thanks for sharing this review.
Thank you so much, Sargon! This video gave me some much-needed information and peace of mind.
I'm just saying you did a great job, and that I think I'll buy this book.
This was fascinating. Great breakdown and analysis.
Once again, a fine video from Sargon. Thank you, this was very informative.
I’m a gay ex Mormon. My family doesn’t accept me. This hit me hard. Really appreciate your work Sargon
Amazing stuff Benny Boy, love your vids
One more for the reading-list. Thanks, very enlightening.