Austrian Armour at the Heeresgeschichtliches Museum, Part 1
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 15 ก.ค. 2022
- During a recent visit to Vienna, I commandeered Mr Franz Brodl for a couple of hours to talk about Austrian armored vehicles, and the Panzerhalle collection of the HGM downtown.
Turned out to be about an hour and a half, so here's 45 minutes to get you started. Apologies for the audio trouble. Part 2 is better.
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All these tank museum guys have infectious enthusiasm for armor and it's a joy seeming them interact with chieftain. Love it!
I had the pleasure to join a guided tour with Mr. Brödl, and when it comes to M60, you can see the pure love in his eyes. It´s as he would talk of his first girlfriend :) Great!
Too bad the English developed the TANK
Yes, well said my friend. Work with or even around armour and it's difficult NOT to become enthralled. Like it or not, we humans enjoy preparing for war and actually killing each other. Generally in as many different inventive ways as possible. Nothing fits the bill more than a tank. It has one function, to close with and destroy one's enemies. The steel monsters are imposing and quite deliberately terrifying.
I remember well the Challengers of the 1991 Gulf War and thinking "Thank the gods they are on our side." The crews were chomping at the bit to be at the enemy. As was everyone else if I'm honest. That's when I realised that conflict is the natural state of the human animal. Bring it on.
@@samholdsworth420 Except they didn't. The British developed the tracked land battleship.
@@RichWhiteUM If anything, it was the french that invented the tank to be used in mass.
"Nothing divides us more than the common language" That made my day. So true and yet so funny. :D
I hope you enjoyed your visit! I still remember Mr. Brödl from my army days when he was a 1st Lieutenant 😎... Great guy. The Sk-105 Kürassier did have a heater but mine was always broken... With lots of water inside the hull, I still remember during winter exercises with - 20 degrees Celsius I had to remove huge chunks of ice from inside 😂
That's rough
The interesting part of this is this guy invented the tank for a problem he anticipated for the future, the trench warfare, while the british and french invented their tanks for the problem they encounterd in WW1.
For those who are wondering, it literally translates as Army Historical Museum
Yes, as stated in the video.
Chieftain has a way of popping up where and when you least expect him!
No-one(!) expects the... Irish Tank Historian?
No one expects the Irish armour exposition!
Damnit! Beat me to it!
Bernhard kast is hiding behind the tank....
no one expects the chieftain inquisition!
What a delightful man.
Also holy hell, the Heeresgeschichtliches really is a gorgeous building.
Ur comment made me realise how stupid that name is
Herresgeschichtliches museum
Finally the Chieftain came to Austria!
Thanks for bringing the HGM to a broader public view.
I'm almost expecting a new video with MHV now. :D
He is what you want in a curator, enthusiastic, and his English is excellent.
at first Ian, now Tank God. amazing.
Aw! Was there and had no idea there was a tank wing. Well, another reason to go back. Not that you need a reason to go to Wien, a capital truly built for an empire.
Mr. Brodl's accent is so wonderful! Also, his english is awesome! Very, very good video, thank you!
I think the Austrians have a pretty good claim for inventing the tank, on paper. But producing a working model is a big part of inventing anything.
Nope: That one goes to Leonardo da Vinci. Along with the helicopter. He had some really mad ideas, designed and models produced, and even prototypes. Might not have worked, but he had the designs...
@@stevepowell491 There's they key -- da Vinci's design never could have worked. The Austrian's designs were actually practical.
If you're going to include da Vinci, then you'll have to include all sorts of science fiction writers with impossible descriptions.
Pictures speak louder than words, operational prototypes shout louder than pictures.
Yup.
Since this was only on paper, the award for the first working modern style tank probably has to go to the French, who had the Renault FT-17 during WWI. It was also the tank used by the American Expeditionary Forces in the same war. It was rear engine with a centerline top mounted 360 degree rotation turreted gun, either a short barreled 37mm cannon or a Hotchkiss 8mm machinegun. It was also smaller and more maneuverable than the British tracked land battleships. Keeping up with the naval theme, the FT-17 was like a destroyer compared to the British tank. We won't even talk about the German tank from that time. The FT-17 really was ahead of its time considering what the other tanks of the period looked like.
If you're ever in the Harrisburg, PA, USA area, the U.S. Army has a FT-17, with the 37mm, on display at the United States Army Heritage and Education Center located just outside of Carlisle Barracks. It is completely free admission to the general public. It looks really nice from the outside but I don't know what the interior's condition is in. I wasn't able to look inside it.
The 105mm guns on the Kürassiers really look massive with you guys there to provide scale.
Love it when the SMEs get in to doctrinal and logistical stuff, but the internet dork in me is primed for asking Herr Brodl about his opinions on M60 vs. Leopard. For both reasons, looking forward to Part 2!
It's so good to hear military history, or otherwise, from a local. If they're not close to the events from a time standout they're usually right on from a historical standpoint. Thanks Chieftain for taking the time to put this video together!
Excellent video as always!! The STEYR SAURER was also served in Greek army under the name LEONIDAS 1 / 2 and was modified, produced by the Greek ELVO industry in cooperation with STEYR for the Greek army.
The HGM is such a wonderful museum! I had the opportunity of going there last year and I felt like a kid in a candy shop. One of the best museums I’ve ever been to!
In Portugal our M60 ''Patton'' tanks been retired from duty in March 13, 2018 and we received our first Leopard 2A6 (bought from Netherlands probably when they had the genious idea that tanks were ''dead'' and they didn't needed them any anymore) between October 2008 and December 2009 and so I think in Portugal the M60 ''Patton'' and Leopard 2 tanks also overlaped in service...a strange mixture.
I think it was more the Netherlands saying, behind closed doors where only the politicians could hear, "why should we pay to keep these expensive tanks when the Americans will bring all the tanks we need and more if a real war breaks out?" Really, that is what all the NATO members actually are saying when they decide to shed a military capability. So long as the Americans keep promising to bring their 7,000+ tanks to save NATO, much of NATO finds it tempting to quietly reduce their own tank fleets down while claiming all sorts of military reasons for it. Note, the Poles and other NATO members who actually can see Russians within spitting distance are a lot less keen to reduce tank numbers than the British, Germans, and others who have some buffer between them and the danger.
@@genericpersonx333 Supposedly Canada and Netherlands momentainly gave up the tanks because they assumed they were "dead" or useless for the modern warfare and since then changed opinion, if I remember right the Netherlands even been renting Leopard 2s from Germany in the meantime. But you are right, since the big Soviet "boogy man" crumbled in the early 1990s that most NATO countries went into the "f*ck the Defense budget, let's just waste almost all the taxpayer's money in welfare policies because that allows us to buy votes for our incompetant, corrupt a*ses while playing kind and social conscious...the yankees will save our a*ses if anything nasty happens" mode and that leaded to the "be caught with the pants down" status in which most European NATO state members are in matters of Defense.
The Eastern European states been a bit different, as you very well pointed, because the memory of the russian imperialism is too recent - they just get free from it, it was just 30 years ago or so - and they are the ones with the russians constantly breathing on their necks, they can put bigger, richer countries like Germany, France and the UK to shame in matters of Defense even being young (if you considered how long they been locked into the USSR) less wealthy countries.
In the 1960s-1970s the little, poor Portugal managed to wage a sucessful war in multiple, overseas fronts in Africa against guerillas financed by foreign powers like the USSR and even the USA. In 2020 we have 220 generals costing 13,9 millions of euros per year for a total of just 27.741 effectives! What a hell?
@@antonio_fidalgo For sure, bloated officer ranks is a tradition among European bureaucratic states, which Portugal is not exempt. Spain, Italy, and others have similarly enjoyed odd ratios of general officers to enlisted on and off for generations. At one point, the Royal Navy had over sixty admirals on the active rolls when the official requirement only called for five. They really haven't fixed that problem since...
I also heartily agree that Portugal is one of those nations that I would not like to antagonize if I had anything to say about it. The fact the M60s were properly retired only after actually bringing in the Leopards shows that at least one of those 220 generals is trying to keep the forces current. There is something about Portuguese that says "we are wonderful friends, but God help you if you make us your enemy." I like that.
No, The Netherlands didn't think the tank was dead, but the army had to sell them because of budget cuts.
Cold War germany had Leopard 1, Leopard 2 and M48A2GA2 all in service at the same time.
"It's much too complicated. Who will ever need this?" I refuse to believe a German actually said that.
well he's austrian, not german :)
For me, the biggest joke is that people think Germans can't do simple things because I have seen German engineers create sublimely simple things. Indeed, the real German engineering tradition is to deliver exactly what the customer asked for. If a German thing is complicated, it is because the people ordering it asked for it to be complicated. If they ask for simple, they get beautifully simple. The real question is why Germans keep ordering complicated things!
@@genericpersonx333 I think one could assume it's because of their excessive use of compound words.
@@genericpersonx333
Maybe pride or need to push things over what is feasible. Queue Tiger Mause Rat. Pant *gun drawn behind head.
Well. The fact is that people making up requirements for something finds the limit where there is a push back and they do not get there way.
Or the results of trying to deliver it shows to be just not working makes destitution makers comply anyways. Point is if neater of this things happen complicated things are created. And it seems like there are some really good ..... around that deal with bad plans and ideas. Not only engineers is it true for to be clear.
A real question is why there is no German electronics or software made. Imagen if we had a Windows Or Mac competitor developed back in the 70-90s. But I guess WW2 and cold war is the answer.
Instead of the sorry state of US, UK and Asia stuff we can have had Mercedes/BMW hardware and software made stupid expensive but just so dam well made in the 2000s that now today we instead of the the years trying to turn cars into electronics and plastic heaps of junk we can have had a decent computers and crap cars.
But what do I know. Just find it odd that the engineering of complicated things where not put on the task of making a computer and OS that is well made but over complicated. Instead of badly made and complicated. ;c
@@TheHalo294 Well tbf Austrians are Germans, just not Germans. Or more clearly they are Deutsch, not Deutschlanders.
I love this! Going on a progression of how Austrian armor is developed and have it in one place…. Throw in a guy with an infectious presentation style. Good job!
Even more interesting than I thought. And yes, he made a good case for the tank being an Austrian invention.
The collections manager sure knows his stuff! I like his enthusiasm too.
A very interesting museum, Mr Brodl did a great job.
I appreciate you asking admossion and hours questions
man you have no idea how long I've been wainting for this video. I am so glad that you finally got around to comming to our wonderful city
You really need to visit Armored Weaponry Museum in Poznan, Poland. The last time I checked it was more than just 60 vehicles, and a few got borrowed to other countries.
Nice 1 Chief. I enjoy your museum walkarounds.
Marvellous stuff and fascinating. Thanks to both you and the excellent museum staff. Looking forward to part 2 when it comes.
That's the first time I heard from someone other than my Grandfather about Austria being divided, He served after the war as an MP in Austria
Wery sad how noone really talks about such countries. Its usually all about the Allies, the USSR and Germany after ww2. Noone talks about Austria, Japan, France, Vietnam. With specific exceptions for each of course. But thats it. Lots of very interesting dacts are left out for students. Like when the soviets letr Austria in 1955, they took (stole) all heavy machinery with them. So austriams had to pretty much rebuild certain factories.
@@toshibami its even worse for certain regions that are today forgotten. If there is peace and the economy is running well, you dont hear anything. But in the background the covert -ization is always underway.
What the russians are doing in ukraine loud and brutal, is happening silently in Spain and Catallnia, Great Britain and Scotland, Italy and Southtyrol (most glaring as they are completly different Ethnic groups.), Germany and Bavaria...
that GREETINGS ALL reminded me to check my earphone volume every now and then, ha
great interview, and a great museum. I need to visit it again, been too long. the building and whole campus is astonishingly impressive and beautiful.
Excellent video gentlemen. Thank you.
Ahhh two people separated by a common language, my best friend in grad school was from Scotland and I was from Kansas, the most American of all of the American variants of the language. How did we do it? Scotch and Kentucky Bourbon, once we switched favoured booze we understood each other. Obviously, it was the English who caused all the problems. I'm hitched to a limey, I know these things.
The Englis(c)h causing future Problems in Nations they lost nothing? No, never!
Greeting from Tyrol, the part Italy took. Haha
@@1südtiroltechnik tach, Südtiroler! LG aus Wien.
@@tristanvoltaire2058 Servus, LG zrugg!
Love your content! And your delivery!! .
Fun fact: during my time as a draftee in an Austrian recon company in 2000 we were still issued the american M2 helmet and a spade that was stamped 1942...
Incredibly interesting Episode, awesome stuff!
Only now, seeing him standing next to and interacting with people I know do I realize just how tall the Chieftain is - which then again puts it into perspective how he had to origami himself to get into the vehicles he presents
Overall the museum is very impressive. I think it even has one of the earliest balloons used in warfare captured by the Austrian from the French in 1790s.
Absolutely great. Even for Austrians it is difficult to obtain first hand stories of these vehicles, especially for the Kürassier.
I certainly didn't expect you to film a video at the beautiful Arsenal of Vienna
"nothing divides us more than the common language" OMG this is so trueeeeeeeee
Austrian "We invented the tank!"
Brit "Really?" whips out his Little Willie "I've shown you mine now you show me yours!"
Thanks Chieftain another great video!
@Size 6 has Chieftan ever done a bad one . Seems your the Anger Bot
@Size 6 I've been watching Chieftain for years now.
Very fascinating and informative, thank you both, gentlemen, for this video on Austria Hungarian Armor.
I spent a month in Vienna in 2016. Heeresgeschichtliches museum was definitely a fav
Fantastic collection
Knowledgeable and interesting fellow, well done.
Thank you for a facinating video.
Ty Heereschichtliches. And the Chieftain. Pausing several times when several WWII warbirds fly over me near Galveston. Guess there's an airshow...
Chieftain and Mig Jagger in Vienna at the same time, something's up !
Man knows his shit. Excellent speaker.
Been there a couple of weeks ago, all around lovely museum. Highly recommend anyone in the area to go check it out
finally the Chieftain at the HGM!
He sounds exactly like Christof Waltz, I love it
great video
Very interesting stuff! Greetings from Linz Austria 🇦🇹 Europe!
Great stuff
Quite impressed by the size of the Kürassier.
Very interesting conversation
This was unexpectedly interesting!
Very cool...love this non mainstream Armour /apc stuff.
Quite a few vehicles in the Panzermuseum Munster also work. The post WW2 german army ones except the specialist prototype KPz70 and some WW2 ones
these austrians have also a great channel that is partly in english where the teacher or chief of the austrian military academy is explaining the ukranian battleground and operations , the lessons learned on both sides, the countermeasures and moving focus from one front line to the oother, changing goals and targest as the impact of wester military aid devliveries and how such more complex weapon systems now do help the ukranian to defend better against the russian attack and logistic forces cause that is there biggest issue: they can not replace trucks and cars as even in russian products they used to use Bosch startes or ignition or whatever parts from the west they no longer can get. Spare part prices are exploding for the usual cars guess what is going on for trucks, the volvo, daimler, MAN Scania trucks in russia without spare parts ?
Great video of a very nice museum not only the tank exhibition.
Well done
The fact he used the term "bloody cold" puts this video above and beyond!
Ooh I see lots of inside the hatch possibilities
Well, now I want to go to Austria...
Very interesting video about one of the more little known European armed forces
Hold on, it actually really makes sense for the army engineers to support the tank collection- how much extra experience and learning from different designs and how flexible it makes them! Maybe we should do the same in the UK.
They still do but it's not bovington
My museum around the corner - behold the eternal glory of Austria! :D
The HGM is extremely active and constantly offers new presentations on wonderful topics and always worth a visit. Plus you could climb around on most tanks in the garden area for quite some time which was awesome but I'm not sure if that's still possible ^_^
as long as you are there: I think, there's a Canadian Sherman/Grizzley in that collection as well. You might be interested in that one.
He's guaranteed to have seen it, it's in a section of the hall between the wooden mockup and the APCs
It´s the former Bovington gate guard vehicle. It´s a loan of course.
I visited the museum in 2019 and was unlucky because I was not able to come back on the weekend.
But there's still a lot of things to see in the museum one of the biggest being a 38 cm howitzer from WW1.
I live in Vienna and i havent been to the Heeresgeschichtliches Museum for a long time, last time I was there was with my father when I was a child but not in the Panzerhalle, where the tanks are but in the other part where they even have part of a submarine
I will visit the Panzerhalle to see the tanks next week
Army Historical Museum would be the closest approximation.
I was lucky enough to visit this museum in 2001 while on leave from the UNMIK Police. I remember the “little yard” with tanks!
Been there done that ,got the t shirt . But it only like a 10 min drive from from my house . funny part is they have more tanks at the Museum than in the Army
Very interesting indeed! :)
Ja Servus nach Österreich!
Austrian history, post war was unknown to me. Seeing this vid was very interesting & fascinating.
Have been there in 2016, when the Panzerhalle was a construction site. I really enjoyed this Museum with a walkthrough about 5 or 6 hours.
Was the best national Army Museum, I've seen so far compared to Imperial War Museum and HGM Dresden. The french museum Dome d'Invalides is also well sorted, but to big. Especially the nicely sorted weapons throughout the centuries, from the middle-age until post WWII.
Never heard of this thing. Too bad this wing is only open on weekends.
Really interesting, but thank goodness for TH-cam Captions with the terrible sound quality for much of the video. Hope you can enhance better if similar issues with Part 2!
Is it possible that the tank inventor from Austria was related to Jara Cimrman? He was the most brilliant Czech albeit born in Vienna, famous inventor of his time. We were one empire then...
Time for a whiskyMr Cheiftan
quite interesting.
Do you plan on visiting Finland at some point? They have a lot of neat stuff there, like the T-28 at Parola Tank Museum. Not sure if any of it is in decent condition, but it'd be cool to see regardless.
Funny you should mention that....
please do a video on the T2 medium tank
The Austro-Hungarian Romfell armored car was a fascinating design but unfortunately never found a role in Austrian military doctrine in WWI.
What’s crazy is that I was here about a week and a half ago but the panzerhalle was closed to the public. I’d be so angry if I could’ve met The Chieftain and didn’t know that he was right next door.
Can you do one on the sheridan tank. Thanks
Now with you being in Austria, was there a opportunity to film a Leopard 2 Video?
I have the silver book about Burstyn.
It would have been good to have also highlighted the Pandur I and 2 IFVs. Sad to see they weren't included.
Maybe they show them in part 2.
What a fine collection I never got to see in Wien? Now I have another reason to see that nice city again?
All those APCs have a rather low silhouette; are they all open-topped?
Ian Mccollum was here just few month ago
Burstyn Motorgeschütz :O
Excellent Video. There is a Kürassier in the German Tank Museum and I would love to have a look inside it. Because it is different to most other tanks and in a way unique.
Regarding the first austrian SPZ, I would be interested to know if its development was at all influenced by the "Kätzchen" development program for the Wehrmacht during WW2. At least outwardley they do look somewaht alike.
Dann solltest dir Wien ansehen.........aber nur soviel: Hat mit den "Kätzchen" nichts zu tun und auch gänzlich andere Aufgaben. Chassis: Saurer SPZ (leicht verändert), französischer Wiegeturm (auch verändert und angepasst, 105 mm GIAT Kanone mit 12 Schuss in den Magazinen. Offiziell eigentlich als Jagdpanzer angeschafft, vielmehr als Aufklärer und leichter Panzer verwendet. Bin drinnen gesessen: Wenn du in einem KPZ Platzangst bekommen solltest...........dann niemals da rein setzen! Viel enger geht nicht mehr
@@geraldnoebauer Ich meinte den ersten österreichischen Schützenpanzer :) Das ein Schützenpanzer nichts mit einem Kampfpanzer zu tun hat, war mir bereits klar :) Aber danke für deine Mühe!
Did you look up Survival Lily while you were there to talk about working together
on crossover episodes for you channels?
Working Title: Surviving in a forest after the last WW III tank battle of the Apocalypse.
An armor museum where (they say) they don't abandon the vehicle outside!