Baldassin-Sanderson Tuning Temperament

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  • เผยแพร่เมื่อ 10 มี.ค. 2014
  • 3/10/14
    Aural tuning demo, when I was in charge of tuning all of the non-school of music pianos at BYU (about 270!)

ความคิดเห็น • 64

  • @DuncanPeterson
    @DuncanPeterson  10 ปีที่แล้ว +9

    That's a good question, Lex. Notice that once I get the tuning pin, and thus the string, into the ballpark, I'm then making micro - adjustments, both up and down in order to render the string across all friction points. Not knowing your own level of tuning experience it's possible that you may have heard of the concept of "flagpoling". Gross (large) adjustments are done by moving the tuning pin in the pinblock, and fine adjustments are achieved by manipulating the area of the tuning pin that is exposed. Flagpoling is often misused by novice tuners and can easily result in tuning instability, but a small amount of flagpoling, if you will, or adjusting the outer portion of the tuning pin is essential to achieving a fine tune.

  • @TheAnetmusik
    @TheAnetmusik 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    The end of your video is the best! Ty!

  • @reidwelch8419
    @reidwelch8419 6 ปีที่แล้ว +5

    I have always tuned verticals with my left hand and grands with the right. 40 years. Taught myself that way. It just seems kinder to the piano at hand.

    • @duncanpeterson8978
      @duncanpeterson8978 6 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Very cool, When I get to the treble end of a vertical that's when I switch to my left hand. I'm still practicing left hand tuning on grands, my biggest challenge there is stability when tuning a grand with my left hand. It's a fun challenge to figure out what works best for you and then run with it!

    • @TheAnetmusik
      @TheAnetmusik 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      Reid Welch, thank you!

  • @greglivingston538
    @greglivingston538 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Thank you for posting the video. I learned to tune by stripping the whole piano to one string. I've tried tuning unisons as I go but with the strip mute, I can check any interval at any time without having to move the mutes. 36 years...hard for an old dog to learn new tricks. :)

    • @TheGildedPiano
      @TheGildedPiano 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      Good comment, Greg. Some would argue that there is also some amount of tuning stability that you may achieve by strip muting and then doing unisons, equalizing the tension over the bridges. I find that for me the simplicity of leaving out the strip mute is worth it. :) Anyway - keep up the great work - on to another 36 years of tuning? :-0 !

  • @TheAnetmusik
    @TheAnetmusik 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Duncan Peterson, thank you for your video! I'm just starting to learn tuning and find it mind boggling.

    • @TheGildedPiano
      @TheGildedPiano 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      It is definitely not an easy skill to learn. I applaud your efforts to take it on!

    • @TheAnetmusik
      @TheAnetmusik 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@TheGildedPiano Thank you for your response! I'm turning 60 next month and excited about learning new skills. Pianos are beautifully crafted instruments and fascinating.

    • @Jesus_paid_it_all
      @Jesus_paid_it_all 11 หลายเดือนก่อน

      ​@@TheAnetmusikJohn 14:6
      Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
      John 3:7
      Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
      Romans 3:23
      For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
      Romans 10:9-10
      That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
      For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
      John 3:18
      “He that believeth in Him is not condemned; but He that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
      Psalm 14:1
      The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.

  • @stemart1641
    @stemart1641 7 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Nice video! I also tune with no strip mute, although I use a couple of felt wedges & a papps wedge. I find it easier & quicker. For me, there are a couple of pianos that an impact hammer works best on - cyberhammer. I also love this trade. I find I'm enjoying it more the older I get. My tuning technique has changed over the years. The way I develop my temperament has too. I see a current batch of tuners learning to tune standing up. All I see is bad backs on the horizon. But, maybe not. That's just how I see it.

  • @Pianist203
    @Pianist203 7 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Great introduction video. You must be a tuner to understand that this is actually fun, tuning temperament is like a puzzle. That tuning lever technique is something I haven't seen, nor we've been talked about at school. I assume it's not necessary always, my tunings are quite stable novadays, as I have worked and payed attention a lot to my lever technique recently. I've still tuned only six months or something so I have a lot to learn, but I'm really feeling I've found my dream job.

    • @DuncanPeterson
      @DuncanPeterson  7 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      ilmothedude I'm having more and more fun as the months and years pass. This tuning level technique is something that works really well for me, especially where the tuning pins are on the tight side. It's kind a jerking technique. Saves energy, I've found. The alternative is a slow pull technique, which I tend to use less, and with pins that feel more squishy. Definitely not THE way to do it, but it works for me. Thanks for your comment! What school are you learning piano technology at?

    • @Pianist203
      @Pianist203 7 ปีที่แล้ว

      I'm studying at Helsinki Conservatory in Finland, it's the most comprehensive piano tuning/technician studies in Nordic countries. I'm still using pull technique myself, but I have read about impact technique and maybe I'm gonna try it aswell, I just got carbon tuning hammer which probably is good for that as it's stiff and light. Is your technique that so called impact technique or is it different as you seem to do tapping on hammer, which would do some bending manipulation to pins for easing friction? We have actually been told to not to make such bending motion to pins. I'm still struggling with those pianos that have high friction in strings, especially in treble area.

    • @DuncanPeterson
      @DuncanPeterson  6 ปีที่แล้ว

      Right, these pianos (Yamaha, Baldwin, and others) have quite a high amount of tension on the tuning pins. I find that since I tune a lot of pianos (at the time of this recording I was tuning as many as 8/day, now it's more like 3-4/day) this bump technique saves my shoulders. I sometimes use a smooth pull technique when the tuning pins respond better to that, but by and large this is my go-to technique and I find it quite relaxing. Good luck in your studies!

    • @EightiesTV
      @EightiesTV 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@DuncanPeterson Tight or loose, I use impact first and slow torque second only if impact isn't stopping right where I want it. I've found that it makes tunings more stable which I theorize is due to the pin settling at the first place where the wood fibers begin to reverse direction... Like a cylindrical featherboard if you're familiar with woodworking...

  • @richardyoung641
    @richardyoung641 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    Great vid Duncan,I'm a tuner in UK... interesting lever technique

    • @DuncanPeterson
      @DuncanPeterson  4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Thanks, easier than the slow pull method on the shoulders when tuning a lot of piano.

  • @lex3729
    @lex3729 10 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Isn't bending the pins like that expeditious, but ultimately results in an unstable tuning, that will settle back once the pins "remember" their stabilized unbent position?

  • @ericgomezreunion
    @ericgomezreunion 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    quelle hysterie dans cet accord. tout trop vite aucun unisson pur , putain il me rend malade ce mec. j’ai pourtant 45 ans de métier

  • @petersanderson3696
    @petersanderson3696 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    I like the tuning name.

  • @mehranofff
    @mehranofff 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    you are the first person I see that use the tuning fork correctly (comparing with F3)
    can you please record a video of best technics to use the tuning hammer
    also some hints (or practices) for beginners to tune unisons

    • @DuncanPeterson
      @DuncanPeterson  3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      That’s a great idea, Mehran. Subscribe to my most popular channel as that’s where I’ll be posting that video. Search The Gilded Piano on TH-cam. th-cam.com/users/TheGildedPiano

  • @raissabenoccithibes3768
    @raissabenoccithibes3768 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Hi, could you indicate the store where you've bought this tool? It's quite anatomical. I liked it!

    • @TheGildedPiano
      @TheGildedPiano 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      I purchased the tuning lever from Steve Fujan (said "foo-YAN"). Here's his site: www.fujanproducts.com/
      I've probably purchased 3 or 4 for myself and my technicians. LOVE THEM! I personally prefer the following specs:
      - 11" total length
      - 15° head
      - Rosewood knob
      - #3 (not #2) 30mm Jahn Tuning tip. You'll have to call and ask to have this #3 tip replace the default #2 (at no additional charge if possible).

  • @fernandoapan2233
    @fernandoapan2233 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Hi. I am a blind concert pianist. Thanks for sharing this video. I'm currently learning to tune pianos at a tuning school in Argentina. I've been practicing to do the temperment withou using the strip, tuning unisons as I go. What are your advices to impruve this technique? Lastly, do you teach private lessons? Thanks for your time.

    • @DuncanPeterson
      @DuncanPeterson  3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      th-cam.com/video/D5DUu1yb8YM/w-d-xo.html
      I am in awe, Fernando. I would be honored to help you learn aural piano tuning. I listened to (and understood most of) your TED talk.

    • @fernandoapan2233
      @fernandoapan2233 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@DuncanPeterson Good morning. Thanks so much for your quick response. Oh I'm glad you saw my video, and it's great you understood the whole thing. Hopefully we can get in touch via email, here is mine:
      ferapan@utexas.edu
      It will be great to learn from you, as I'm quite new in the world of piano tuning. I've been studying for almost three years and enjoy it very much. Thanks again and look forrward to hearing from you soon.

  • @joshnme
    @joshnme 6 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Who makes the lever and do you like it? Thanks for the interesting vid.

    • @DuncanPeterson
      @DuncanPeterson  6 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      joshnme I love it! Fujan is the maker. Steve Fujan.

    • @DavidBoycePiano
      @DavidBoycePiano 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@DuncanPeterson They are the Ferrari of tuning levers! I bought mine in May 2007; I think it was the first in Scotland. They give great control.

    • @TheGildedPiano
      @TheGildedPiano 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@DavidBoycePiano absolutely! I've purchased 3 total (for myself and other techs). So great.

    • @DavidBoycePiano
      @DavidBoycePiano 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@TheGildedPiano At the time I bought mine, there wasn't yet a UK distributor, and I ordered it direct from Steve - a very nice guy to deal with.

  • @huycuongpi
    @huycuongpi ปีที่แล้ว

    Thanks for the clip. Could it potentially damage the tuning pin if you repeatedly oscillate the tuning hammer in such a manner?

    • @TheGildedPiano
      @TheGildedPiano 11 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Very little chance of damaging the tuning pin with the tuning lever. That’s just my experience (now 20 years). Have you experienced damaging the pin? Maybe I’m missing something?

  • @petersanderson3696
    @petersanderson3696 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Is the extra yanking on the hammer after its tuned, set the pin? My teacher passed away before handing out this info.

  • @dibaldgyfm9933
    @dibaldgyfm9933 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    Checkig with the fork and playing f-a' (F3-A4) on the piano is new to me - I can't figure out why you use the F, but your voice showing that you listen for the beats being so and so is maybe an explanation. Then again, how do we know that the f is in tune?

    • @DuncanPeterson
      @DuncanPeterson  5 ปีที่แล้ว

      Astute observation. When using F3 to listen to A4, F3 doesn't necessarily need to he in tune at this point. It is simply being used as a test note to see if the F3-fork beat rate matches the F3-A4 beat rate. Once it does then you'll know that A4 is in tune. Does that answer your question?

    • @dibaldgyfm9933
      @dibaldgyfm9933 5 ปีที่แล้ว

      Yes indeed, that did answer my question!

    • @DuncanPeterson
      @DuncanPeterson  5 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@dibaldgyfm9933 glad to hear! That means you must be a great learner! Have a good day

  • @Mykelclassic
    @Mykelclassic ปีที่แล้ว

    I really need someone to help me get rooted in this

  • @holmespianotuning
    @holmespianotuning ปีที่แล้ว

    Have you tried tuning in unequal temperament? With the right system the results can be astounding with all the keys usable.

    • @TheGildedPiano
      @TheGildedPiano 11 หลายเดือนก่อน

      I haven’t experimented much with non-equal temperaments, although I have heard some. Very interesting. So many ways to appreciate the beauty of music.

  • @karlstice7482
    @karlstice7482 ปีที่แล้ว

    Why not use a temp-strip ? Much more efficient. Use cloth temp strip from mid-treble and all the way down to the end of the bichord bass notes. And then bring in the unisons afterwards. When the mid-area is tuned with a temp strip in place, you can then tune up into the treble ( where a temp strip is not practical to install ) using the rubber wedge.

    • @TheGildedPiano
      @TheGildedPiano ปีที่แล้ว

      I am glad you've found great efficiency in using a temperament strip. I started out that way, and many do use a strip to very good effect. I however have found great efficiency in using 1 or 2 felt mutes tuning unisons as I go. Fine tune is around 45 minutes. I'm happy with that, and my clients seem to be as well. Best of luck in all your endeavors and thanks for following!

  • @petersanderson3696
    @petersanderson3696 ปีที่แล้ว

    So what makes this a Balderson Sanderson tuning? All the perfect intervals?

    • @duncanpeterson8978
      @duncanpeterson8978 ปีที่แล้ว

      What makes this a Baldassin-Sanderson temperament is the specific order that the temperament (F3-F4) is tuned in. It yields an equal temperament tuning as is the intention of most tunings these, but just approaches it in a certain way.

  • @swansong1851
    @swansong1851 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    I see you were struggling with tight tuning pins and even mentioned something about it. Do yourself a favour and give up your fancy carbon fibre lever for an extendable one. I usually use mine at 12 inches, but can set it down to 10 inches for looser pins. For a new Indonesian Yamaha like this I will extend to 16 inches and find my unison quickly and set it well. I also advocate using a temperament strip so as to be able to go back into the scale to improve it. The best check is to test running 6ths. (They beat like a third.) Correct them, and then tune in unisons.

  • @F0nkyNinja
    @F0nkyNinja 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    I thought the necklace said Brigham Larson Pianos.

    • @DuncanPeterson
      @DuncanPeterson  3 ปีที่แล้ว

      Funny, that says Brigham Young University! Ha

  • @FrancescoGuardi
    @FrancescoGuardi 11 หลายเดือนก่อน

    LOL ! I wouldnt give him the job...

  • @broadsworddannyboy5057
    @broadsworddannyboy5057 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    I am a tuner with over 33 yrs experience- you did not pull many of the unisons pure - why did you do that as a tuner ? A novice won't hear that, nor may an intermediate tuner- but a concert tuner like me, these unisons were close- so why stop just before perfecting the unison? - l don't get it....try using technology to set the scale, then check and adjust by ear - saves tons of time- l found your tuning style, rushed and erratic and imprecise in places....l was not impressed either by the tuning lever technique either...slow everything down and l would mute the strings in the scale area - all saves time and effort- remember, some tuners tune 4 pianos a day- using technology to gain an edge is recommended....

    • @duncanpeterson8978
      @duncanpeterson8978 4 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      Thank you for your observations broadsword dannyboy. You certainly have a lot of experience with 33 years in the business!
      We're all on a path of improvement, and I am certainly no exception. Here's to "CANI" as Tony Robbins puts it (Constant and Neverending Improvement)!

    • @broadsworddannyboy5057
      @broadsworddannyboy5057 4 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      @@duncanpeterson8978 thank you for your kind reply- it's frustrating to my ear lol - nearly a pure clean unison achieved to be lost at the moment the strings " synchronise" themselves, which effectively means, they sound tuned , but are not - it is in this crucial phase that you must slow down and " listen" for the slow running imperfections...as you said that is the fun part- l hope that this " synchronisation " of the strings at the point you let it go - re- watch the video and you should hear the slight imperfections.
      I hope that this advice assists you- l time served in Germany under a very strict " alt meister" - but it was worth it.....

    • @TheGildedPiano
      @TheGildedPiano 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@broadsworddannyboy5057 I have definitely learned to listen more slowly and tune more methodically since the recording of this video. I will take your advice and continue to synchronize those unisons reaching for perfection. Since I service 900 pianos per year that should give me plenty of opportunity to Practice! What country do you service pianos in?

    • @broadsworddannyboy5057
      @broadsworddannyboy5057 4 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      @@TheGildedPiano you may have misunderstood me, the strings , ironically, where you stopped, JUST before perfectly tuned, physically " synchronise" themselves ( physics) ( so they sound in tune or " close enough, but are slightly out - a concert pianist will challenge you on this ) this is what makes fine tuning so challenging, yet fun , when mastered. It takes time...
      In the bass l am looking for warm octaves, and in the treble nice and bright and pure unisons- if possible.
      I am time served in Germany and I am in the UK again- but may be taking a posting back in Germany soon as a Concert tuner.....just slow everything right down- don't time yourself- in your video l think subconsciously, owing to the watch and camera , you were keen to move on, placing pressure to perform rather than tune, that is what l attribute the slight discrepancies too, not ability, the ability is clearly there - don't sacrifice quality, esp unisons, they are what make a quiet tuned instrument.
      " listen " you will hear what l mean.

  • @user-zy8tl4to8t
    @user-zy8tl4to8t 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Уши настроить и ключом научиться работать...всего ничего...

    • @ericgomezreunion
      @ericgomezreunion 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      oh la la pu…. ces tierces trop rapides et les unissons …pas purs et pas stabilisés. tout à l,arrache

  • @raidenten6718
    @raidenten6718 ปีที่แล้ว

    👇

  • @Jesus_paid_it_all
    @Jesus_paid_it_all 11 หลายเดือนก่อน

    John 14:6
    Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
    John 3:7
    Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
    Romans 3:23
    For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
    Romans 10:9-10
    That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
    For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
    John 3:18
    “He that believeth in Him is not condemned; but He that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
    Psalm 14:1
    The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.

    • @TheGildedPiano
      @TheGildedPiano 11 หลายเดือนก่อน

      I too believe in Christ. I’m not sure how your comment pertains to my video, but thanks for your biblical quotes.

    • @Jesus_paid_it_all
      @Jesus_paid_it_all 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      @@TheGildedPiano Praise Jesus! Every situation should be used to bring praise, honor and glory to God!
      Revelation 4:11
      11 Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.