Granny Voicing

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ความคิดเห็น • 76

  • @adrianmaule7128
    @adrianmaule7128 2 ปีที่แล้ว +6

    THANK YOU! I voiced my piano based on this instruction. Our 'new to us' piano was too harsh and bright when we got it. I used my wife's coarse nail file to file the hammers. Worked like a charm! Now it has nice dynamics, not harsh. Very nice. Thanks again!

  • @dylanmcqueen4656
    @dylanmcqueen4656 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    Thank you very much for sharing your knowledge, I am a pianist and the tone of my Grand piano is very bright, even though I bought it, it is old but I want the mellowest sound, so I will carefully try this technique!! Thank you for your time and contribution. :) Sorry my EN. Best regards from Germany.

    • @MrPianoTech
      @MrPianoTech  3 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Thank you for your kind words!

  • @user-jm2ji6dz8r
    @user-jm2ji6dz8r 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    From Russia with love!) Your chanel is the best! Thank you!)

    • @MrPianoTech
      @MrPianoTech  3 ปีที่แล้ว

      I appreciate the comments, thank you for watching!

  • @queeniesongs
    @queeniesongs 8 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Thank you so much for this! I have two pianos, an upright and a grand -- the upright is a Yamaha P22 I bought in 1998 or so from a dealer and the grand is a Conover that is probably over 100 years old I bought from a piano rehabber about a decade ago. Your advice is perfect and exactly what I needed to know -- thanks for not belaboring the point and for packaging it in a down to earth way for the "rest of us" LOL.

    • @MrPianoTech
      @MrPianoTech  8 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Awesome! Thank you for your kind words, glad I could help.

  • @Jay-tg1bc
    @Jay-tg1bc 9 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Very informative and empowering video. Dramatic intro, haha. Thank you!

    • @MrPianoTech
      @MrPianoTech  9 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Thanks! 😆

  • @musicoscope
    @musicoscope 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Excellent!

  • @chrishunt91
    @chrishunt91 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Great tutorial

  • @dunnkruger8825
    @dunnkruger8825 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Nice
    Thanks

  • @ikbelsoua
    @ikbelsoua 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    thank you

  • @bhaveshmistry3255
    @bhaveshmistry3255 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Thank you so much for making this video. I always excited to know about the voicing the way your saw its very easy to understand for me. I have a questions. How dose is last after doing the this basic voicing and one more question. Is piano need to tune before and after doing this process?

    • @MrPianoTech
      @MrPianoTech  2 ปีที่แล้ว

      Hello Bhavesh, thank you for watching! I find that it lasts at least until the next tuning, usually six months. I will usually touch up the voicing a little when I see them next but it won't need as much as the first time. Typically I will tune it before I voice it.

  • @ScaramouchedaVinci
    @ScaramouchedaVinci ปีที่แล้ว

    Thank you. But really good voicing, where the tone blossoms (overtones) when struck the piano key, is very rare.

  • @ElikemTheTuner
    @ElikemTheTuner 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    That was a brilliant presentation. Can you talk about voicing up as well? Making the tone brighter?

    • @MrPianoTech
      @MrPianoTech  3 ปีที่แล้ว

      Thank you! typically the only times I encounter someone wanting to make it a lot brighter is maybe a church or a concert hall where they just want it louder. I hate recommending doing that because you usually end up having to lacquer the hammers which I don't like to do. There are ways to subtly brighten the tone and I do plan on covering those in a future video. Thanks for watching!

    • @keithcitizen4855
      @keithcitizen4855 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@MrPianoTech when they get sold to a residence later ! ETC

  • @BrunoNeureiter
    @BrunoNeureiter 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    That's what my piano has needed for the last many years!! I wish I could do it 🥺

    • @BrunoNeureiter
      @BrunoNeureiter 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      I've been waiting for months for my piano technician to come but nothing he's busy

    • @BrunoNeureiter
      @BrunoNeureiter ปีที่แล้ว

      Hey

    • @dontletthatwaterflooow
      @dontletthatwaterflooow ปีที่แล้ว

      The tools are probably cheaper than what the piano tuner/ technician would charge. You should try it

  • @thomasdeneui6042
    @thomasdeneui6042 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    I have two to three notes that are very harsh sounding the F F# and G on the C3, the place where the strings transition over from the base part of the harp to the upper part of the harp where they reside. These three notes are too bright and harsh to me and just do not sound evenly on the transition. I just had the piano tuned and the hammers reshaped by a professional, this is a used '57 Cable-Nelson/Elliot stamped harp, that I recently purchased. I did mention the harshness of these notes but the tech but didn't pick up on it and offer to soften the notes by using your needling technique. So I am on You Tube and the web trying to figure out what I can do to soften these three notes, the rest of the piano sounds great, the tech did a super job of tuning and reworking the heads, no real complaints. So your video was greatly appreciated and the question now is, do you have a problem a non tech piano player using your technique on his own piano or should this absolutely be done by a certified tech. What you did didn't look that hard and I am considering buying the tool and giving it a go. Just listening to your video really made my day. Thanks.

    • @MrPianoTech
      @MrPianoTech  2 ปีที่แล้ว

      Sorry for the late response, it never notified me of your message! If you're still considering it I'd say if you're handy give it a go. It's your piano but just do a little bit at a time until it's where you want it. It's hard to undo a voicing.

  • @rogerg4916
    @rogerg4916 11 หลายเดือนก่อน

    It seems there should be a way to attach fresh felt to the top of the hammer to soften the tone.

    • @MrPianoTech
      @MrPianoTech  11 หลายเดือนก่อน

      I’ll use extra material sometimes in the high treble where the strings have made it through to the wood core. But, attaching anything leads to having to use some sort of adhesive which usually stiffens the surface and has a brightening effect.

  • @Mizai
    @Mizai ปีที่แล้ว

    cool

  • @awride01
    @awride01 3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Thanks for the tutorial Michael, much appreciated. Could you tell me the specs on that Perma-file and where to find it please? I'm currently using a little sandpaper paddle from Schaff but you've convinced me to switch to a more permanent solution.

    • @MrPianoTech
      @MrPianoTech  3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      Thanks for watching! I believe there is both an 80 and 120 grit file, I use the lower grit 80, works much faster. Pianotek Supply is where I get mine from.

    • @awride01
      @awride01 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@MrPianoTech Perfect, thank you sir!

    • @MrPianoTech
      @MrPianoTech  3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@awride01 no problem!

    • @paulmann4579
      @paulmann4579 ปีที่แล้ว

      What do you do to make soft hammers sound brighter ?

  • @EvanJRoberts
    @EvanJRoberts ปีที่แล้ว

    Great video. What do you think about hammer softener liquid?

    • @MrPianoTech
      @MrPianoTech  11 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Thank you! Never used it before. I’m only familiar with the hardener to brighten the tone but I never use it.

  • @thomasdeneui6042
    @thomasdeneui6042 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    I did a little self on in my Piano Servicing, Tuning, and Rebuilding by Arthur A. Reblitz, which I highly recommend in addition to reviewing TH-cams, The write up is far superior to most of the TH-cams I have reviewed. I bought the tool and gave it a go. It helped a little bit but after more study and observation of the piano action, especially the bounce back, I am now convinced I have a couple of "Dead Keys" because the jack springs are worn out. So, my next project is to replace the jack springs on the three keys that are so bad. If all goes well, then on to all of the other keys. BLEH!@#$. Thanks again for your video.

    • @MrPianoTech
      @MrPianoTech  2 ปีที่แล้ว

      That's a great book. Is the hammer bouncing off the strings and hitting a few times rapidly?

  • @jimmywu7008
    @jimmywu7008 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Thanks for the video. I have had my piano voicing done a couple of times in the past, after a few months it returns back to the bright sounding. How can I permanently fix the problem? Will I need to get it voiced every a few months or would you recommend changing the hammers completely?

    • @MrPianoTech
      @MrPianoTech  2 ปีที่แล้ว

      It should last a while if the hammers are being filed as well as needled. If this has been done a few times it may be time for a new set of hammers.

  • @timelwell7002
    @timelwell7002 4 วันที่ผ่านมา

    IMO it's not possible to get a good profile when facing each hammer 'in situ.' For this reason I always take all the hammers off before re-facing (re-shaping) worn hammer felts. With an upright, it helps if the piano in question has butt plates.
    Fortunately for me, here in the UK there are not too many 'Spinet' type uprights, because with this type of upright, usually the action is connected to the keys via connecting rods, just to add to the lenght of time such a job can take.
    Of course, with most grands it's easy to unscrew each hammer in turn to do this, though a little harder with a Simplex (D-Section) action which some baby gands have, due to the spring-and-loop system where the loop passes trough a hole in the jack and has to be 'uncoupled' before the hammer can be removed.
    On an upright where there are no butt plates, one has to dismantle the action - but in any case return tapes and balance hammer leathers need to be replaced at the same time, depending upon the age of the piano and the amount of wear. And damper cushion felts often need replacing due to wear against the damper spoons.
    Needless to say there can come a point where the hammers are just too badly worn, so it becomes necessary, or at least highly desirable, to install a new set of hammers.

    • @michaelbarrett3926
      @michaelbarrett3926 3 วันที่ผ่านมา

      I’ve never had a problem accessing the entire hammer, just takes some practice. It’s even easier in a grand since you can just pull the action, turn it around, and place it back in the piano to work on it. You run the risk of damaging, losing, or misaligning things not to mention the time it takes to do it properly. And, not everyone can afford to have the entire action rebuilt just because it needs a voicing.

    • @timelwell7002
      @timelwell7002 3 วันที่ผ่านมา

      @@michaelbarrett3926 Where there's not much wear on the hammers, and you're only having to voice, of course with an upright you just voice in situ - though sometimes one needs to tilt the action back for access. HOWEVER:
      Where re-facing is required, due to wear and flattening of the hammer, to get the correct profile, one often has to take some felt off the shoulders. To do this properly on an upright, each hammer has to be taken off.
      If you're none to fussed about getting back the correct profile of each hammer, then that's up to you, but I like to maintain the highest standard of work that I'm able to do.
      As for re-alignment of hammers, in an upright with butt plates - assuming the alignment was correct in the first place - then that's not an issue.
      Although, if the hammers were not correctly aligned in the first place, it's essential to re-align, which in any case necessitates the removal of the dampers and the levers (whippens) in order to be able to align without risking breaking any of the whippens/jacks.
      But when doing an action rebuild on an upright which does have butt plates, as we know, the hammers have to be put back on first, and aligned with the strings, prior to then putting back the levers (or whippens as you call them) and aligning the jacks with the butt notches and then replacing the dampers and aligning them properly too.
      It has been my experience that if hammers have enough wear to necessitate re-facing, more often than not one has to replace return tapes and replace the balance hammer leathers at the same time.
      However, I do take your point about the expense - therefore the owner of the piano has to weigh up for themselves how much they want or can afford to have done on their piano.
      Certainly some cases are 'borderline,' where in an ideal world one would re-face prior to voicing - which is of course my usual practice. But where there is not too much wear/flattening of hammer felts, one can just voice the hammers.
      I did this a few days ago for a customer with a Welmar 5' 6" grand (in essence a Bluthner grand with a different name on the fall-lid, the frame design being identical to Bluthner). My customer was pleased to avoid too much expense, and the wear on the hammers wa mimimal.
      I've had 46 years experience as a piano tuner/technician.

  • @emerywang
    @emerywang 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Thanks Mike. Is the front of the hammer the side you're needling in the video? Do you ever need to needle the back of the hammer too, and how do you know when you do? Would you have to pull the action to be able to reach the back part of the hammer? Thanks a lot, I find your videos very informative.

    • @MrPianoTech
      @MrPianoTech  3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      Thank you for watching! So technically you shouldn't needle the very front of the hammer directly on the strike point. The reason why is it can, very quickly, deaden the tone so much that the hammer could become useless with pretty much no tone at all.
      So you'll want to needle just to the top and bottom of the strike point at about a 45 degree angle toward the tail, so if you're needling on top of the strike point you'd be angling down with the needles. Grand hammers are much easier to get to, with uprights however, I rarely need to access the entire hammer to needle underneath the strike point.
      What I usually do is kind of "cut across" the strike point from the the top so that when the needle enters the hammer felt it will pass through the strike point but at a point deeper in the felt. I do it at about a 45 degree angle.

    • @probablyblue426
      @probablyblue426 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      Woah! You watch this guy too?? (At least a year ago)

    • @emerywang
      @emerywang 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@probablyblue426 Yep. And a whole lot of others. Most of what I know how to do these days I learn on TH-cam ;-)

    • @probablyblue426
      @probablyblue426 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@emerywang Well, I will say I am interested in diy tech stuff :)

  • @enecitoleoveras8208
    @enecitoleoveras8208 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Hello. I just bought a used korean piano and it sounds silent and mellow like that. I want it to be more louder but not that bright. I want to make voicing with it, what part of the hammer should i do the needling?

    • @MrPianoTech
      @MrPianoTech  3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Thank you for watching! Check the condition of the front of the hammers. If it's already pretty quiet the front of the hammers may be damaged to the point where they need to be reshaped which should brighten the tone back up. So see if the front of the hammers are very soft right now.

  • @pds002
    @pds002 11 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Thank you for all of your amazing videos, including this one. I wonder why you are reluctant to take the action out to reshape the hammers. I know you say that you vacuum afterwards, but I'm always a bit paranoid about creating dust and detritus on other working parts. Is there another reason it is advisable to leave the action in place? Thanks again.

    • @MrPianoTech
      @MrPianoTech  11 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Thanks for watching! Just because there’s not much/any benefit. If you remove the action you’ll still bring all the rest of the parts with you so you can’t get away from getting felt dust in the action. Also, the piano will hold the action and hammers much more stable than you can on anything else you put it on. Another reason is the dampers will still be in your way so you can’t get a better angle on the hammers until you get to the treble section without them. Lastly, a lot of upright pianos I encounter that need voicing are spinets with drop actions, those can be a real pain to remove including tying up the drop action stickers, so I avoid removing them unless totally necessary. Just some of my reasons, over the years I found I get the same or better results not pulling the action and I have never had any problems leaving it in.

    • @pds002
      @pds002 11 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@MrPianoTech Thanks so much for your reply. That makes complete sense and I shall be adopting that strategy from now. Thank you.

    • @MrPianoTech
      @MrPianoTech  11 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@pds002 Happy to help!

  • @greglivingston538
    @greglivingston538 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Michael, don't you worry about flattening the strike point? I've always drawn the sandpaper toward the strike point on either side, and not round the hammer off.

    • @MrPianoTech
      @MrPianoTech  ปีที่แล้ว +2

      You’ll only flatten the strike point if that’s all you sand. But they need the grooves filed out of them, otherwise there’s no point to sanding them in the first place. I start on one shoulder and work my way across the strike point to the other shoulder, maintaining the egg shape of the hammer. Depending on the quality of the felt I may need to work the shoulder I ended on back the other way a bit to make it look better. This is the way Yamaha trained me to do it many years ago.

  • @arnopr
    @arnopr 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Hi! I noticed several other techs emphasising *not* to file off the grooves at the very top initially when reshaping, or at least to leave this to the very last, possibly to facilitate string mating. Could this be a grand vs upright distinction? In each case this advice was I think given for a grand action, which they'd removed from the case. Not a tech myself, just curious as an owner (of a grand). Thanks!

    • @MrPianoTech
      @MrPianoTech  2 ปีที่แล้ว

      Not sure why someone would suggest not to reshape the part of the hammer where the problem is 🤔. All of the groves should be removed. Just make sure not to shave it flat but keep an egg shape to it.

    • @arnopr
      @arnopr 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@MrPianoTech no suggestion that it shouldn't be done, as I wrote they were referring explicitly to not doing so *initially*, i.e. leaving it until a later stage, possibly to facilitate mating hammers with strings. Perhaps a minor point or even a matter of preference :)

    • @MrPianoTech
      @MrPianoTech  2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@arnopr Yeah, I don't see any reason to leave it until last. In fact, that's the first thing I do grand or upright.

    • @arnopr
      @arnopr 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@MrPianoTech Interesting. Cheers!

  • @nstarbaby
    @nstarbaby 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Sir, thanks for sharing. Is filing the hammer a must before needling? Or it depends?
    Thanks.

    • @MrPianoTech
      @MrPianoTech  3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Thank you for watching! For a quick fix you can do without the filing but I recommend getting down to fresh felt first.

    • @nstarbaby
      @nstarbaby 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@MrPianoTech Thanks for the expert advice.

  • @gegervary
    @gegervary 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    I just recently purchased a brand new W. Hoffmann T128 by C. Bechstein. It’s an amazing upright piano, especially for the price. The tone and touch is fantastic all across, but I do have ONE annoying note that sounds way too harsh in my opinion, C3, exactly the mid strings start. Could it need a little bit of voicing you think?

    • @MrPianoTech
      @MrPianoTech  2 ปีที่แล้ว

      Sounds like. You should be able to just needle the felt a little to bring it down to match the others.

    • @gegervary
      @gegervary 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      @@MrPianoTech Woah, thanks for your prompt reply. Nice video btw. I need to do some filling on my older upright I decided to keep as well. It’s about 20 years old, great tone for what it is, but the treble hammers have those grooves and some are slightly unaligned. I’m going to rely on your techniques and the Reblitz book, at least on the old one, wouldn’t touch the new for training purposes. You got a new subscriber, thank you!

    • @MrPianoTech
      @MrPianoTech  2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@gegervary Thanks for watching, glad you're finding it useful! Let me know if you run into any problems you need help with.

  • @thomasdeneui6042
    @thomasdeneui6042 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    The hammer is bouncing back noticably slower than one of its neighbors and so is making a kind of dull thud sound, that is why I am suspecting the jack springs and am going to take a hard look at them.

  • @Twize
    @Twize 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Thats the term “nasally”. We just bought a new grand piano and it doesn’t sound like the model at all. It sounds exactly this “nasally “ (like someone threw a blanket over the piano. It’s a 5’2”. The store owner is going to send out a tuner. I hope they can easily resolve this. Any recommended info to remedy this? Thanks for for the very informative video.

    • @MrPianoTech
      @MrPianoTech  3 ปีที่แล้ว

      It's very possible it's the voicing, voicing will have a big impact on tone. A qualified technician will be able to determine the cause and the best way to go about altering the tone for you. In my experience voicing is the #1 way to get rid of a "tinny" or "nasally" tone.

  • @rogerg4916
    @rogerg4916 11 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Does applying alcohol to the felt soften it?

    • @MrPianoTech
      @MrPianoTech  11 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Never tried it. Might have unpredictable effect on the felt adhesive.