How To Not Build Illegal MTB Trails With Ben Cathro
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 7 พ.ค. 2021
- Last year Ben Cathro embarked on the epic journey of creating his own track. However, little did he know, he actually built it on private property. Luckily, with the help of the FLS and other associations he could make the changes necessary to keep the track running.
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It honestly baffles me that people make a mistake and sue the landowner. Not once have I crashed and thought of blaming someone other than myself. Great video though as always!
Same
Ikr
They blame the features and not their skill level
It's likely not the individual suing the land owner, but an insurance agency acting on behalf of the individual looking to recoup costs incurred by the client.
Wrong mate, you should definitely blame the guy in front of you! :p
Basically, we want a Cathro upload at least weekly
i agree
Agreed
So there's a huge unused grassy hill behind my house that's about a 1/4 mile from the main road. I'm going to build a dirt track for "wildfire prevention precautions". But there might be a few berms and jumps too lol
Fire is EXTRA prevented by berms and jumps 👌
@@jond1915 Idk. If I was fire I'd be drawn towards that.
@@jond1915 it's the thought that counts 😄
@@bobohunter1776 out here in California. I've seen fire fighters create dirt path barriers to prevent spread. Knock on wood, we've been clear for quite some time.
Blink twice if FLS made you do this in order to keep the trail.
blink blink.
The best tracks are illegal. Our motto in Australia is "It easier to ask for forgiveness than ask for permission"
I live in Australia and that’s exactly the motto me and me mates follow 🤘🇦🇺🇦🇺🇦🇺
That’s a global motto 😆
Colombia too! Although it may lead to death 😅
Up the Aussies 🇦🇺🇦🇺🇦🇺
It's sad to say but that even applies here in Canada
After 15 years of trail building in Rotorua, bang on Ben, excellent info. The other trail advocacy consideration we work with is community pest control trusts, trail providing access to more area for trapping & monitoring. So just another reason for more trail.
MTB brings a better economy, stronger communities, healthier forests & a greater sense of pride of our beautiful town.
Look forward to the DH season, cheers for all the great content bro.
Thank god for Cathro and thank god for Pinkbike bringing TH-cam content to us that is factually interesting. Extremely enjoyable to watch a vlog that is more of a magazine article about something we are all either involved with or affected by. Can I just get this one thing off my chest ? MTB content purely POV of ridding down trails, baphooning about playing a game of BIKE and or ridiculous challenges has become so tedious to trawl through . I know we can all choose what to watch but when social media is awash with mediocre content it's so refreshing when channels such as Pinkbike , Redbull and Cut Media release something that is truly engaging. ( the above sentence is not designed to open up debate purely meant for constructive criticism ) Don't stop the great work guys.
Good thing we don't have "illegal" trails in Colombia 🙊
Definitely didn’t read ur name wrong 😂
Ever heard of ledgeview haha
@@archiesim7703 haha same
Your entire country is an illegal trail
@@archiesim7703 wut could u read it as?
This is why I liked mountain biking 15-20 years ago. There was only 20 people max in a town of 100, 000 involved and only about 4 really committed guys show showed up each day to build.
We got to build until our heart’s content. And the only people who got upset were xc riders who couldn’t ride it.
No legal drama, just people with a passion for riding. Now every man and his dog has a bike and an opinion and doesn’t know bum from hole in the ground.
The E bike is exacerbating the problem as now you don't even have to be fit to get to the top of the hill.
@@Deebo1985 Yeah, that’s also true. Now you end up often getting stuck behind people who think they can ride, but haven’t spent the time developing skills.
E-bikes are so beta. No Leg-day, EVER, for the poseurs who ride beta-bikes.
We did the same in our town, and would even move kids out of the trails/woods that got hurt before getting help. We knew we would lose all our hard work if they found our trails
What’s wrong with the world is we have created a lawsuit happy society. Attorneys pray on a simple situation and try to turn it in a situation that 100x worse than it is while people try to file suit instead of acknowledging their mistakes put them in the predicament they are in. It’s truly annoying because it’s shaping a world where no one is safe... Just a horrible outlook since attorneys have nothing holding them back other than how much money they make.
That stuff actually hindering massive the sport in Germany. The funn part is not once was there a judge that said the landowner should pay for this accident. That is also makeinng me scratch my head. Why there is fear if no one actually could be sued because it wont go through.
Most of our legal trails are so boring that you cant learn anything techy...
What's kind of nuts is seeing my favourite MTBers / youtubers riding EMTBs.
It’s a great thing to see Cathro push that Heckler, because I’m in the process of buying one!
That gives me the confidence that the Heckler definitely is up to the task!
You’ve gotta love Ben Cathro 😂
100% agreed!
I just returned to watch this video again after some time. It's so excellent! What an awesome summary of how to do trails right.
Very hard to find land and get permission around where I am located North Wales 🏴. Great story of how you managed to get it done . Great one Ben
Ben I find your riding absolutely relaxing to watch. Just what I needed to chill out after a long, rough week... riding Stellenbosch tomorrow
The trail looks so good!!! Rad job by all the builders 👍👍👍
You just have to love Ben! Great video! :D
This has been a public safety announcement by Ben Cathro... 🤣
To anyone who likes mountain biking, you should do what you can to be involved in your local trail association group. They're popping up in more places and almost always can use a hand with advocacy, building rapport with the local land owners and community, or even just moving dirt. It's important to remember that most of the awesome trails we ride around the world are a privilege to have access to, and like any other privilege, can be lost if it's not cared for.
Funny that you manged to put the track through a medieval village man ahahah, my local riding hill is on the slopes of an ironage hill fort, with permission, I find all sorts of cool flints and even some Roman bits while digging.
Sick
We all want Ben cathro to upload at least once a week
Marin county needs to take note!
This is so cool. Something that could've turned into a shit situation for Ben personally has turned into something positive for the community. We need more of this!
It’s not prober mtb ing with out Ben cathro the man is a legend 🤘🏾
WOW! I enjoyed watching it! That is really cool!
This was very informative, I hope it will be helpfull for us germans.
we had issues up deuchny woods in perth , we got stv and forestry commission involved and we got a great wee all weather track built which has brought a lot of bikers our way .
Building trails is just a whole diverent Vibe
Awesome video🔥
I will say there are some certain scenarios that prevent a certain plan from happening like the flow of traffic and parking. Fantastic video tho! Hopefully we see some more eager bikers building more trails in the future!
Somebody complained about our park we made with jumps they destroyed it and called it an illegal bmx park my city is so stupid
my illegal bike jumps at queen elizabeth park (vancouver) go torn down by the C.O.V.
thats really nice...keep it up
A trail no go, but active forestry over that village yes man!!!
Cathro out here with his court-mandated public service announcement
Great vid🤘
Thanks for this informations Nice vidéo
Literally impossible to get a project approved in Eastern Europe if it doesn't bring tons of cash yo the town hall
Thank you!!!!!!
Needed to see this trail in the pie
Cathro should name the trail Fortescue for disturbing the medieval village
So this is where Cathro's been, time to crawl through PB content to find everything I've missed since #CathroVision!
Endless struggle, we must rebel this is the trail builder way
Watching this as I build trails on conservation area
Noooo! You can't just go and have FUN!! First you gotta ask for permission.
yay Ben!
That’s right!
You definitely would not want to illegally build a trail that attracts people to your community and helps people’s-health
god forbid people have a fun way to exercise and work on their fitness and bike skills. *shudder*
@@bermchasin 😂👍
All the pointless bureaucracy just sucks the fun out.
Ok back story my group is a dirt bike Enduro group, we found a great area but it was private property so we got permission. Ok so one day we were riding our trails and we came across a trail that we didn't make or have permission for it to be there, being a mountain biker also I realized right away that they were mtb trails, now don't get me wrong we have a respect system with the mtb community and most of us are great friends. But this was a breach on the terms of our agreement so we contacted the mtb community leaders and they did some digging around and found out that they weren't the ones that did it. So we tracked down who did it it was a bunch of teens that made it on a weekend so we let them deal with the property owners. Everything worked out in the end, so those kids were put to work on making other trails for us.
That's amazing. Worked out well for everyone at the end. Those kids must really love making trails.
Scotland is light years ahead of ireland in terms of sanctioned trailbuilding. The country is such an insurance basket case that the landowners, Coillte, will not allow any unofficial trailbuilding. Anything that is officially built is just tame trail centre greens or blues.
Can we get a revue on the vitus Sumer the one with the rockshox yari
such a good video! thanks all!
It's always easier to ask for forgiveness than permission haha
FSA input in this vid translated to, mountain bikes waste our time when we could be unsustainablely farming invasive species of trees
I remember the Forestry Commission in the Borders telling us about a woman who went walking in Craik in her stilettos, left the road to hike through the rough where she fell, broke her ankle and promptly sued the Commission for damages. Apparently you need warning signs about that!
Which law holds landowners liable for accidents which occur on their land? < This is ridiculous and needs to be fixed.
I’d say that they’re trespassing so fuck em it’s their own fault 🤷♂️🤣🤣 I’ve broken bones, all sorts, never once have I got up and being like “I need to sue these guys” no, only dickheads with all the gear no idea would do that, you know, them ones with £10,000 bikes and a £500 helmet but can’t bunnyhop, bet it’s them who sue 🤣🤣
it could easily fixed by just making a rule that if you voluntarily get on a trail, and ride it... you have zero justification to sue the owner, unless the trail was purposefully booby-trapped. The rider has the responsibility to know their ability and take responsibility if they get hurt. I have crashed on a trail, and it was no ones fault but mine.
First rule of fight club is don't talk about fight club
Yes, the problem with mountain biking is that it doesn’t have enough bureaucracy. All the good local trails started out illegal and then became more formal and are managed by the local trail builder group. When the state set out to build a trail they brought in “professionals” who had no idea what they were doing and they created trash trails with terrible flow and dangerous jumps that just don’t work. Oh and they covered the whole thing in gravel for some reason.
A pile of rocks in the woods from hundreds of years ago when peasants tried to stay warm and dry. Honestly at what point do we stop thinking things are history and things are just an old pile of rocks? We've already touched almost the entire planet, should we never build anything new again?
Yep and there are many other old villages...
I always wonder about this when it comes to graveyards. Going by the logic that they're sacred and not to be built on or used for anything else, eventually the entire planet would be a giant graveyard. Burn what's left of me after they harvest all useful organs, please.
@@SnootchieBootchies27 agreed
@@SnootchieBootchies27 Grave Yards and Landfill sites.
@@zGJungle true. But at least landfills don't hold the sacred status and can (theoretically) be built on top of one day.
Oh im super early. Last time i was this early to a pinkbike video i didnt know how to react
ok?
Where is that new trail being put in?
Real ones already seen this
I want to see Ben Cathro and Christina Chappetta review the bikes.
I don't think it is the problem of the builders or land owners, I think suing culture is bad in general, you have more fun, but it creates more problems then it solves, in the end no-one really benefits, probably even the idiots who sue people for no reason have complained about 'health and safety gon mad' once in their life
Farm kids have it the best just have to convince theyere parents and got all the tools
Best way to build trails buy you self some land
Yeah ok lemme just drop $100k so I can build trails
@@harrisonclark3799 depends where you live, a group of us bought 40 acres of hillside for under 5k
Hey there money bags! If that's the general attitude then I think I will give up trail-digging and start gold-digging. 😊
@@Everatti who builds trails in a city?
@@belgianwaffle3883 I do. But those are the trails I shred on my way to skew.
we only have illegal trails in melbourne, australia
“Cut the branches flush with the trunk”!!! Er NO. That’s bad for the tree. Pruning cuts should not be made through or behind, the branch collar (Eg flush cutting) but made immediately in front of it.
What if u can’t find who owns the land and build a trail with no big features?? And it’s by kids ?
where is this trail
Whats the music in this?
Mighty Plop
Who the hell is suing? And how are they winning the cases?
Doesn’t really matter if they win or lose it costs a ton of $ to properly defend yourself if you’re getting sued.
Where are these tracks?
I’ve had 2 of mine taken down
With the right tools (I used a simple bike tool kit th-cam.com/users/postUgkxHL1v1R3NE5x4KiYfyt8dnQmyNYz7qi5L that you can strap to the bike) it's simple to assemble. As a 270lb guy looking for a way to get more exercise that's easy on my feet I have been impressed by this bike. The tires ship with air in the tires, but before you ride you need to pump them up som more, but once you do you can ride with confidence. You'll definitely want to replace the seat if you're going to ride for any real distance, but that's the case with most bikes. I'm loving it and it has given me a hobby from my youth back.
Basically the exact opposite of all that sound advice towards the end of the video happened at my local (illegal) riding spot and, well yeah all hell broke loose!
Ooh I’m early
Me and my friends are about to build one in a local park and we are not sure if its allowed we are in scotland btw
I would suggest contacting whoever is responsible for the park first. (town govt) It would be sad to get in trouble or have all your work just bulldozed flat.
@@richr7516 thanks man i will do : ) altho we have already built most of the trail XD
Where I am it’s all public land and the national trust just flatten anything
9:08 the man is damn Scottish!
I didn’t understand a word he said, I really needed subtitles haha
It’s so sad huge secret trails just got take down the city literally had to take a excavator
F.
I have clipped my petal on a bush and I flew down a hill
This video works only for people NOT living in germany and some other countrys ;-(
In Germany you just build and hope it doesnt get torn down immediately. But if you build fast enough they wont take it down because its quite a lot of work and they are not interested in that
@@janneshildebrandt1 The problem is just that you dont want to build much because you dont want to increase the stereotype of: Mountainbikers are bad and shit. So I dont like to build much except when it would be legal.
What I love about mtb is the majority of the time a failure is on my part, not the bike or the trail. People who sue are melts lmao
failure is a part of MTB... anyone who doesn't get that isnt a true rider.
@@bermchasin yup, if you’re not crashing you’re not progressing
In germany where I live we only have illegal trails…
But there are Tons of them, so youll always have a trail to ride...
I live in Germany too and we have over 100 illegal trails in my area...
"Illegal trails" means a completely different thing in the UK than it does in Canada. We wouldn't even dream of building illegally or legally on private land. So the difference between legal and illegal on crown land (depending on the government official in charge of your area) often means the difference between being able to make something that's actually challenging or just building another homogenized boring ass blue or green flow trail.
I’m building a sick trail rn and it’s goin well but I hope I don’t get sued cuz it’s such a stupid rule
I did this on one hour before watching it
So it's multiple levels of bureaucracy, compromise and dealing with organisations, or build the trail you want and don't put it on instagram (maybe accept it might not last forever if the land isn't yours) - Got it
Imagine trying to sue the trail for a crash, like let’s be real…
or just build some trails and tell no one about it
Whilst i total agree that we should all build legal, sensible and sustainable trails, involving the landowner from the word go, i also think that "sued for millions" is b*ll*cks! sorry! Can anyone actually point to a single court record that shows where this has been the, er case ????
Not quite the land owner but it does happen unfortunately: www.mbr.co.uk/news/mtb-instructor-sued-for-4million-by-paralysed-client-351891
@@oliverbourne9599 very different situation! If you pay for an instructor then there is both an implicit duty of care and an explicity (legal / HSE) one! Just riding around on someone elses property does not bring that duty of care (it doesn't exclude it, but it certainly would be a much much harder prosecution to bring)
@@maxtorque2277 Yeah agreed. I acknowledged that in my OP. I think the fact this guy won this prosecution after signing a waiver and trying to learn a dangerous sport is scary and sets a precedent of the judicial system having no idea about our sport whatsoever. On the subject of land. I used to ride on private land where an official North Shore replica bike park had been built. It had the usual strictness around signed membership and dangerous sport liability waivers etc. Even to the extent of specifying and examining the type and standard of the bike you were riding and stipulating what armour you had to wear. A kid came off. Paralysed. Despite all the waivers and acknowledgement of risk, the parents still took the bike park to court. The park had to close but no financial compensation was awarded
It may depend on which state and legal framework. In Sweden where I'm from we don't have the laws that provides for the potential to make an earning from having a mishap. What typically is a potential liability is a man made construction intended for specific use that collapses, either due to wrongful/insufficcient material, construction or lack of maintainance. A typical example is playgrounds, a kid falling off from a climbrack because kid is lacking skills is typically not ground for claiming damages but if the kid falls due to the climbingrack collapsed when using it as intended it gould be a ground for claiming damages.
Though, in Seeden we have generous laws about having access to other's land as long as not invading somones privacy though it would not be allowed to saw off branches from living trees without the owner's permission. Or scraping off large areas of moss...
A land of forest also carries some liability for the landowners as to the levels and diversity of wildlife in the area they belong to.
When's he racing
With Scotland's right to roam, how do they not have a zero liability for said landowners?
amen.
What I liked about this the most was seeing no excavators. I get it, maybe I'm a luddite, but once you cut a "trail" with a machine, I don't think its really much of a trail, lots of fun, but I'd call it a "track" or something else. Trails are natural. (I realize he refers to this often as a track, but I'm going to chalk that up the the Scottish vernacular!)
if u mountain bike and sue when u crash u shouldn’t be allowed to ride a bike and u ruin it for everyone
in fairness in ireland scotland wales and england you cant dig 6 inches before finding a medieval village or a iron age post hole also YOU should not be able to sue a landowner because YOU choose to ride down a hill and YOU hit a tree at 40kph and broke YOUR collar bone or worse, YOUR lack of ability is not the landowners fault...I and only I are responsible for my actions and mistakes so it really isnt fair to be suing landowners for when we fuck up
I feel like it’s better to beg forgiveness than ask permission in regards to trail building. The worst case is the time spent building is wasted if it gets shut down. Build smart and sustainable, and ensure your entrance and exits make sense.
The title made me think how do I make illegal trails