I was there when this happened. Saw him crash rushed over in one of our FBO’s cart to see if we could help and there was nothing we could do but keep him upright till emergency responders showed up. It was his first solo, however he had done a few landings already this was his 3rd I think. It was a weird scenario to watch from thinking this guy was tooling around from oscillating up and down very rapidly to noticing it was a real problem when he got about half way down the runway and ended up banking the wings side to side till he hit the dirt. Really sad having to take his instructor over as well to see the wreck.
I'm really glad someone pointed this out, most students in their first solo don't know this important piece of information. Which more than likely would have fixed the issue.
Apparent out-of-control trim action can also be "hand flying" with the autopilot engaged. Pull-back on the control and the AP trims down, push forward and it trims up.
@@dennismasi9736 yes, you can enter into a losing battle with the auto pilot trim. I noticed this Issa when I set these as failures in one of my simulators.
He didn't say tail number. You can hear that ATC didn't know who was having emergency. She asked and got no reply. N5396E shouldn't have called right after that 'emergency' transmission.
A lot of shitty takes from the armchair pilots and wannabes in the comments. We don't know enough details to make any judgements or pronouncements here. We do know that problems develop really quickly on short final when your energy is low and you're close to the ground. Add lack of experience (he may have been a student) and a relatively busy airspace, and the risk factor increases even more. He was clearly fighting the plane all the way into the ground. Until more details come out, we don't know what, if anything, he could have done to save the situation. And for the radio police - no, saying "mayday" three times would not have summoned a magical dragon to whisk him away to safety.
I wonder if controller could see him literally about to crash while directing him cause it didn’t seem like it. Compared to others there was a lot going on but not acknowledged in comparison, thought it was pretty quick
Maybe she didn't understand because he was reluctant to declare a proper emergency.. Mayday is the word. Not ''Yeah, I got a trim problem.'' She even thought he just had his mic open by accident. Shame that lesson came too late for him RIP:
Heard it a few times now. What does it mean when ATC says they'll call that pilots base? I know its a good thing, not like giving them a number to call, but idk.
Funny… no one here mentions the auto pilot disconnect/trim interrupt switch. That’s your first go to. Hold the button down to permanently disable the electric trim. Second action is to grab the trim wheel… it has a clutch that will slip. Third… circuit breaker. You’ve got to know your systems! This is most unfortunate!
Surely after hearing that an aircraft’s trim wasn’t working and the word “emergency” it would have been appropriate to show more urgency instead of just insisting on a go around. The whole time the controller seemed short and impatient with each pilot, even though she was not dealing with many aircraft. Maybe she’ll listen more closely next time.
@@andrewkemp1882 A go around may have saved his life. If his problem was runaway trim, the remedy is to maintain level flight, shut off the breaker for the electric trim, then land the plane normally using manual trim. For all that he needed a go around.
@Matty England Because he didn’t declare clearly in a crowded radio environment. His first call was “My trim is on”…His second was mentioning the emergency without identifying himself. The controller had no way to know which aircraft was the emergency or the severity. Not to blame the victim, who was probably very low hours and failed to follow the ANC rubric, but he did add to the confusion of the situation. As was evidenced by the controller thinking the call was a stuck mic.
Maybe just maybe if he started with MAYDAY MAYDAY MAYDAY and not with uhh ohh. Why are some pilots so hesitant to say it I don't know but I think ''Huston we have a problem'' only works when you are the only one who's talking and everybody is listening to your every word carefully because they don't want to miss a thing.
Not 100% on the controller, but she definitely made some mistakes. She heard an aircraft in distress and continued to act like things were normal. Also why did she take a plane off so close to that guy on final and then just make him offset to the right and go around? He seemed to be on a short final as she cleared someone else for takeoff. Sad situation
Not the controller’s fault at all. If you listen, he was supposed to land parallel, but due to the trim issue probably couldn’t control his heading. Also, she wasn’t sequencing the base turns. The closeness was due to the high number of aircraft doing landing practice, I am guessing that a flight school must have been using the airport and they were sequencing between the touch and gos and regular traffic. The problem was that his first call was that his trim was on, which she confused for a stuck mic. Unfortunately, he was too busy with the AN part of the ANC triad to properly apprise the controller that there was an emergency. Whether he accelerated into the pattern or the sequence backed up, we just do not know.
@@detritus23 I got my PPL at Gillespie field. Montgomery and Gillespie have tons of flight schools, student pilots, and low time guys flying around. It's a very fluid airspace in SoCal.
Communication is a mess. ATC appears to be overwhelmed with too many airplanes operating at the same time. Lot's of stepping on and communication jumping from one plane to another. Also, looks like there was a conflict between the emergency aircraft and another one departing.
There’s also the problem that N700YZ never said their callsign, so they couldn’t have known that they were the one in trouble. For all they knew, they had an aircraft departing, an aircraft that was offset and an aircraft with trim issues and a stuck mic.
@@Mark625S no it's not. San Diego international is the busiest airport in San Diego. It is an executive airport so it's focus is on private aircraft. It is dominated by prop aircraft. Because of the activity of flying schools they should be used to issues with single engine craft. This was a mess made worse by the atc not getting a handle on the chatting.
@@NathanChambers She didn’t ignore anything. In a crowded radio space he failed to declare mayday and pilots were all stepping on each other. Ironically she then gave him an instruction which would have saved his life had he complied with it: go around. For some reason he tried to force the landing, instead of maintaining level flight, breaking the circuit to the electric trim, and using manual trim to land as per the training for Cirrus pilots.
The problem is cognitive saturation: The straw that breaks the camel's back. People have died because one small distraction has caused them to stop flying the plane, an open door being the classic example. Something more major, even if survivable, can even more easily overload a pilot to the point where they fail not only to deal with that problem, but with the basics. And for a student, it's even more likely.
Cirrus aircraft, a trainer, sure seem to crash a lot..and they usually can't deploy the chute either. However a Cessna 152, another trainer, has no chute and when's the last time one crashed?
Wow.. that controller made some fatal errors. How close was the plane that was taking off? The pilot that was killed may very well have saved his life by moving right instead of immediately landing.
Traffic 1 1/2 mile final clearing A/C for take off is not going to work most of the time. especially when LUAW is used. You can hear the inexperience in this controllers voice, she was overwhelmed. The minute you hear the word emergency everything else pauses. This should serve as a lesson to controllers, sometimes the squeeze is not worth the juice. be patient better to delay on the ground and not in the air. Condolences to the family and loved ones of the pilot.
I don’t think you can blame the controller for this, N700YZ didn’t identify itself and was initially thought to be a stuck mic and got stepped on by N5396E during their emergency call. Even with hindsight and no stress involved with managing a field I could barely hear 0YZ’s call- and the lack of callsign meant it could be literally anyone on frequency. Even if they heard it, they couldn’t have known it was 0YZ with the trim issue, and the immediate priority was ordering 0YZ to go around as it was missing the runway.
1½NM is sufficient distance, especially with no delay or LUAW. A Cirrus approaching at 90KIAS with no wind will take about 45 seconds to be over the threshold. A Cessna waiting on the numbers will take about 20 seconds to rotate. May be freaky for a student pilot to be across the threshold as someone is just lifting off 1000 ft ahead of you but it’s actually legal. During the day between two light GA aircraft, 7110.65 doesn’t even require the departing aircraft to be off the ground. Where the margin of safety you might ask? The departing aircraft will be 500 above by the time a touch and go aircraft will have even rotated. And the landing aircraft can usually offset and go around.
It was only when things were going badly wrong that she intervinedok things wrnt wtong quick im asumi g as a executive airpirtt thst they didnt get as much traffic as a normal airport did they only have the one controller as obviously they needed a second one for emergency incidents ge was coming in to land she was desling eith the other plane it was like a case of there he was even i thought as he landed well crashed without being seen it eouldnt have made any difference another controller but they could have tried RIP to pilot
Too low for caps. He should have gone around and pulled the trim breaker. Regained full control and then re enter pattern for landing. Panicked and planted the aircraft. Sad.
@@rtmdlawncare5774 That's true, he could have gone around and landed it or pulled the chute when he was higher on approach. Not sure when exactly the runaway trim was identified.
CAPS? What about flying the plane? You can over power trim You can pull breaker. This did not have to end like this. Would never deploy chute in this scenario.
As a instructor in the Cirrus currently this is sad to see. I feel as though this could have been avoided. Overpower the trim and get control over your airplane. He was much too low to pull CAPS in this situation but I feel like this wouldn’t be a situation calling for an immediate CAPS deployment. As loss of control due to a runaway trim could result in a CAPS deployment but who am I to judge. Condolences to this family.
He never called final and the controller was awaiting his approach on final call. He was already on short final when you hear the controller advise another aircraft to watch out for him on base. If he made proper calls, she could have waved him off sooner and avoided this whole thing. Allegedly he was a student pilot flying first solo. In a G6?? That’s a whole bother issue. Students should learn how to fly without all the bells and whistles first. Probably another factor in this incident.
Yes absolutely. Once you know what they're saying you understand everything. One thing you always do is say your name (call sign) before you call, otherwise you're just a voice from the void. The pilot was so panicked it was just an outta onowhere "My trim's moving on its own!" Honestly at first it jist sounded like a stuck mic. I feel bad cus the person was so new they couldn't get themself to stop and think of a solution.
As far as I know, a sr 20 is equipped with a parachute (caps) system. I’m guessing he got task saturated focusing on trying to land rather than using it, or thinking of it.
He was too low for the parachute to help. The problem was the controller shouldn't have cleared the last plane on. The runway. The Cirrus was to close, but usually he would just been instructed to go around, but because of the emergency, that wasn't an option.
I’m not a pilot so I don’t know, but why did he continue to descend if he was having a problem? Couldn’t he have just pulled up a bit and stayed safely in the air even while drifting a bit due to the trim problem?
Depending on the trim problem, he may not have had sufficient control authority to "pull up.". Also, he was in the terminal part of the flight, which would have severely affected his ability to control the situation. Finally, he was doing touch-and-goes, which suggests he may have been a low-hour pilot or returning after a period of low flight time. He may not have had the presence of mind or current experience to handle the situation.
@@detritus23 He was a student pilot. It’s true that he might have had no options and no way to pull up. He did, however, know about his trim problem pretty close to his turn from base to final judging from the timing of his panicked comments. It looks like he did not receive training on emergency trim procedure. (Or he forgot in his panic).
@@banjo2019 Or, the trim malfunction made the aircraft unflyable in the flight regime it was in. We don’t know which trim system failed and what the consequences to the flight controls were. Some aircraft losing trim means extra control input, some aircraft will have the control surfaces lock due to the extra loading from the out of trim airflow. We just don’t know what he was experiencing. He may have been at full control deflection fighting to keep the aircraft from entering an unrecoverable flight regime. He may just have panicked. We just don’t know. (Edit: According to some unverified reports, the trim issue may have resulted in violent pitch oscillations, which may have stalled the aircraft.)
the student pilot panicked thats why he crashed he should of turned around but he forced himself to land but lost control of the aircraft instead by not using the wheel trim properly he probably put excessive trim on the wheel RIP
I never heard him say " I am declaring an emergency", nor the word emergency. Sounds like he lost his cool and started to freak out. Sad, never the less.
He does say "I have an emergency" right at 3:43, but doesn't ID himself, and doesn't sound like ATC heard him (the next thing she says is, "who's having a trim problem?).
Typical US radiotelephony discipline. Pilot in troubles is unable to communicate in proper way. If yes, the ATC could be notified, start with her emergency checklist and rid off the other traffic quickly. More over he is flying Cirrus and apparently not well trained and mishandled the trim runaway which is the memory item checklist. At least hit the bloody master switch if no idea what to do. Dead guy and destroyed airplane for no real reason. Normally I feel sorry. But in this case this should be a lesson for other easy minded pilots. Do not fly an airplane you are not well trained for.
“Do not fly an airplane you are not well trained for.” While I agree that pilot errors were made here, you know he was a student pilot right? Do not make youtube comments without checking facts first.
Look be a student is not an excuse. I never ever released student for solo flight without knowing he is safe for himself and others too. I do understand handling complex scenarios and multitasking is difficult for students. But knowing that this airplane has the electric trim not like Cessna 152 and have knowledge how it works is essential during type familiarization training. Additionally apparently CAPS training was skipped as well. He had a good chance to walk away. Now is the question how was his training done and how was his CFI. That's it. Fatal accident for no real reason. Sad and tragic.
Regardless of the fact that it wasn’t used. If one chooses to fly an aircraft with a ballistic parachute chances are they did so because they aren’t confident in their aviation skill set. Run away trim alone isn’t enough to cause this. The layers of Swiss cheese all lined up for this to happen.
"If one chooses to fly an aircraft with a ballistic parachute chances are they did so because they aren’t confident in their aviation skill set. " Sure...probably the same reason Mike Patey chose to equip his experimental bush plane with a parachute - no confidence in his aviation skills...right...
Of all the dumb things posted in these threads, this is one of the worst. People only fly aircraft with BRS because they don’t trust their skills? Please. What is your aviation skill set, bozo? Someone is dead, and you not only disparage them, but an entire class of pilots. Do us all a favor, and skulk away in shame for your demonstrated stupidity.
My question is why would you fly a cirrus as student pilot. I mean is not illegal, but is not ideal specially with all the automated sustems it has. The instructor should have taught him that.
Things can get very bad very fast in an airplane. The emotion in his voice is haunting. Condolences to his loved ones.
I was there when this happened. Saw him crash rushed over in one of our FBO’s cart to see if we could help and there was nothing we could do but keep him upright till emergency responders showed up. It was his first solo, however he had done a few landings already this was his 3rd I think. It was a weird scenario to watch from thinking this guy was tooling around from oscillating up and down very rapidly to noticing it was a real problem when he got about half way down the runway and ended up banking the wings side to side till he hit the dirt. Really sad having to take his instructor over as well to see the wreck.
His 1st solo....in a Cirrus? Good grief.
@@gregdrmaxmy first thought too
The panic in those last words are gut wrenching... Condoleances
The panic is what killed him sadly...
Always point to the Auto pilot and trim circuited breakers during run up if equipped.
I'm really glad someone pointed this out, most students in their first solo don't know this important piece of information. Which more than likely would have fixed the issue.
Apparent out-of-control trim action can also be "hand flying" with the autopilot engaged. Pull-back on the control and the AP trims down, push forward and it trims up.
Would turning off the master switch stop the trim in this aircraft?
@@dennismasi9736 yes, you can enter into a losing battle with the auto pilot trim. I noticed this Issa when I set these as failures in one of my simulators.
ATC pay better attention, he said trim emergency, then you sent him around.
He didn't say tail number. You can hear that ATC didn't know who was having emergency. She asked and got no reply. N5396E shouldn't have called right after that 'emergency' transmission.
A lot of shitty takes from the armchair pilots and wannabes in the comments. We don't know enough details to make any judgements or pronouncements here.
We do know that problems develop really quickly on short final when your energy is low and you're close to the ground. Add lack of experience (he may have been a student) and a relatively busy airspace, and the risk factor increases even more. He was clearly fighting the plane all the way into the ground. Until more details come out, we don't know what, if anything, he could have done to save the situation.
And for the radio police - no, saying "mayday" three times would not have summoned a magical dragon to whisk him away to safety.
Dude was solo too soon. Those of us that know know the story.
he was too scared to say "mayday" anyway.
Trim wheel is no joke i know
rip young man
Never trusted electric trim in light GA aircraft. I always just used the wheel because there are too many horror stories. RIP to this pilot.
I wonder if controller could see him literally about to crash while directing him cause it didn’t seem like it. Compared to others there was a lot going on but not acknowledged in comparison, thought it was pretty quick
Maybe she didn't understand because he was reluctant to declare a proper emergency..
Mayday is the word. Not ''Yeah, I got a trim problem.'' She even thought he just had his mic open by accident.
Shame that lesson came too late for him RIP:
Heard it a few times now. What does it mean when ATC says they'll call that pilots base? I know its a good thing, not like giving them a number to call, but idk.
Pilot never never identified himself by callsign
Ooof..
This whole situation is to stressed and not well treated.
Tragic..
A stressful situation was stressed... what a surprise.
Too stressed.
Without knowing details
“Panic kills”
Rip
Funny… no one here mentions the auto pilot disconnect/trim interrupt switch. That’s your first go to. Hold the button down to permanently disable the electric trim. Second action is to grab the trim wheel… it has a clutch that will slip. Third… circuit breaker. You’ve got to know your systems! This is most unfortunate!
he was a new pilot, only had a few hours solo.
Know your systems indeed. The Cirrus doesn’t have a trim wheel. The trim switch moves the entire elevator, not a tab.
Red cap the trim servo circuit breaker. Know where it is along with fuel boost the boost pump switch. Instinctively.
Seems ATC and the other pilots ignored his emergency declaration and his runaway trim.
There was a lot of stepping on. Not everything you heard was heard at the scene at the time.
Surely after hearing that an aircraft’s trim wasn’t working and the word “emergency” it would have been appropriate to show more urgency instead of just insisting on a go around. The whole time the controller seemed short and impatient with each pilot, even though she was not dealing with many aircraft. Maybe she’ll listen more closely next time.
@@andrewkemp1882 A go around may have saved his life. If his problem was runaway trim, the remedy is to maintain level flight, shut off the breaker for the electric trim, then land the plane normally using manual trim. For all that he needed a go around.
@Matty England Because he didn’t declare clearly in a crowded radio environment. His first call was “My trim is on”…His second was mentioning the emergency without identifying himself. The controller had no way to know which aircraft was the emergency or the severity.
Not to blame the victim, who was probably very low hours and failed to follow the ANC rubric, but he did add to the confusion of the situation. As was evidenced by the controller thinking the call was a stuck mic.
Maybe just maybe if he started with MAYDAY MAYDAY MAYDAY and not with uhh ohh. Why are some pilots so hesitant to say it I don't know but I think ''Huston we have a problem'' only works when you are the only one who's talking and everybody is listening to your every word carefully because they don't want to miss a thing.
Starts at 3:40
thanks
who is who? I hear many planes, yet just one is in the video... losing track of who is who or what
So sad.
Not 100% on the controller, but she definitely made some mistakes. She heard an aircraft in distress and continued to act like things were normal. Also why did she take a plane off so close to that guy on final and then just make him offset to the right and go around? He seemed to be on a short final as she cleared someone else for takeoff. Sad situation
Not the controller’s fault at all. If you listen, he was supposed to land parallel, but due to the trim issue probably couldn’t control his heading. Also, she wasn’t sequencing the base turns. The closeness was due to the high number of aircraft doing landing practice, I am guessing that a flight school must have been using the airport and they were sequencing between the touch and gos and regular traffic.
The problem was that his first call was that his trim was on, which she confused for a stuck mic. Unfortunately, he was too busy with the AN part of the ANC triad to properly apprise the controller that there was an emergency. Whether he accelerated into the pattern or the sequence backed up, we just do not know.
@@detritus23 I got my PPL at Gillespie field. Montgomery and Gillespie have tons of flight schools, student pilots, and low time guys flying around. It's a very fluid airspace in SoCal.
Didn’t help at all when N5396E stomped over the Cirrus pilot calling an emergency
She was notifying the cirrus of the offset and telling him to go around. Not instructing him to offset.
@@detritus23 BS she ignored
Communication is a mess. ATC appears to be overwhelmed with too many airplanes operating at the same time. Lot's of stepping on and communication jumping from one plane to another. Also, looks like there was a conflict between the emergency aircraft and another one departing.
This is the busiest airport in the second largest city in California...
There’s also the problem that N700YZ never said their callsign, so they couldn’t have known that they were the one in trouble. For all they knew, they had an aircraft departing, an aircraft that was offset and an aircraft with trim issues and a stuck mic.
@@Mark625S no it's not. San Diego international is the busiest airport in San Diego. It is an executive airport so it's focus is on private aircraft. It is dominated by prop aircraft. Because of the activity of flying schools they should be used to issues with single engine craft.
This was a mess made worse by the atc not getting a handle on the chatting.
Not a pilot, but aren't there breakers and a manual system for electric trim?
I would hate to be that controller. Mistakes were made.
Not by her, just to be clear.
@@banjo2019 She ignored someone declaring an emergency,. what do you mean it wasn't her making mistakes? LLAL
@@NathanChambers She didn’t ignore anything. In a crowded radio space he failed to declare mayday and pilots were all stepping on each other. Ironically she then gave him an instruction which would have saved his life had he complied with it: go around. For some reason he tried to force the landing, instead of maintaining level flight, breaking the circuit to the electric trim, and using manual trim to land as per the training for Cirrus pilots.
@@NathanChambers Your president is making a lot more mistakes and is resposible of a lot more deaths and torture!
@@banjo2019 he declared emergency.
Power trim msy not be a great feature on a light plane.
RIP
Reach over and pull the fuses that are mark as trim...while maintaining flight....landing with full trim is not a big deal...
The problem is cognitive saturation: The straw that breaks the camel's back. People have died because one small distraction has caused them to stop flying the plane, an open door being the classic example. Something more major, even if survivable, can even more easily overload a pilot to the point where they fail not only to deal with that problem, but with the basics. And for a student, it's even more likely.
Well said chair pilot.
@@savageryflyer5391 hardly the case..
@@japc4326 Seem to be the case since you're saying what to do guessin that the problem was electrical. Chair pilot.
Says the supposed expert
ATC should not have cleared the other plane for takeoff.
Cirrus aircraft, a trainer, sure seem to crash a lot..and they usually can't deploy the chute either. However a Cessna 152, another trainer, has no chute and when's the last time one crashed?
Wow.. that controller made some fatal errors. How close was the plane that was taking off? The pilot that was killed may very well have saved his life by moving right instead of immediately landing.
If the pilot had told the controller that he had an emergency that might have helped.
Traffic 1 1/2 mile final clearing A/C for take off is not going to work most of the time. especially when LUAW is used. You can hear the inexperience in this controllers voice, she was overwhelmed. The minute you hear the word emergency everything else pauses.
This should serve as a lesson to controllers, sometimes the squeeze is not worth the juice. be patient better to delay on the ground and not in the air. Condolences to the family and loved ones of the pilot.
I don’t think you can blame the controller for this, N700YZ didn’t identify itself and was initially thought to be a stuck mic and got stepped on by N5396E during their emergency call. Even with hindsight and no stress involved with managing a field I could barely hear 0YZ’s call- and the lack of callsign meant it could be literally anyone on frequency. Even if they heard it, they couldn’t have known it was 0YZ with the trim issue, and the immediate priority was ordering 0YZ to go around as it was missing the runway.
1½NM is sufficient distance, especially with no delay or LUAW.
A Cirrus approaching at 90KIAS with no wind will take about 45 seconds to be over the threshold.
A Cessna waiting on the numbers will take about 20 seconds to rotate.
May be freaky for a student pilot to be across the threshold as someone is just lifting off 1000 ft ahead of you but it’s actually legal.
During the day between two light GA aircraft, 7110.65 doesn’t even require the departing aircraft to be off the ground.
Where the margin of safety you might ask? The departing aircraft will be 500 above by the time a touch and go aircraft will have even rotated. And the landing aircraft can usually offset and go around.
She had no clue what to do.😢
Don’t hot mic
It was only when things were going badly wrong that she intervinedok things wrnt wtong quick im asumi g as a executive airpirtt thst they didnt get as much traffic as a normal airport did they only have the one controller as obviously they needed a second one for emergency incidents ge was coming in to land she was desling eith the other plane it was like a case of there he was even i thought as he landed well crashed without being seen it eouldnt have made any difference another controller but they could have tried RIP to pilot
report WPR23FA027
overspeed and a potential increased nose-down moment caused by high speed and flap configuration with improper reaction by the pilot
In the stress of the situation the pilot must have forgotten about the caps
Too low for caps. He should have gone around and pulled the trim breaker. Regained full control and then re enter pattern for landing.
Panicked and planted the aircraft. Sad.
@@rtmdlawncare5774 That's true, he could have gone around and landed it or pulled the chute when he was higher on approach. Not sure when exactly the runaway trim was identified.
@@euge963
He was communicating normally until final approach. Figure he was 3-400 feet. Student pilot panicked it appears.
CAPS? What about flying the plane? You can over power trim
You can pull breaker. This did not have to end like this. Would never deploy chute in this scenario.
As a instructor in the Cirrus currently this is sad to see. I feel as though this could have been avoided. Overpower the trim and get control over your airplane. He was much too low to pull CAPS in this situation but I feel like this wouldn’t be a situation calling for an immediate CAPS deployment. As loss of control due to a runaway trim could result in a CAPS deployment but who am I to judge. Condolences to this family.
He never called final and the controller was awaiting his approach on final call. He was already on short final when you hear the controller advise another aircraft to watch out for him on base. If he made proper calls, she could have waved him off sooner and avoided this whole thing. Allegedly he was a student pilot flying first solo. In a G6?? That’s a whole bother issue. Students should learn how to fly without all the bells and whistles first. Probably another factor in this incident.
Pilots don’t make position calls at towered airports.
Controller job is to be looking out the window
Damn is that how fast ATC talk can’t understand a thing
Yes absolutely. Once you know what they're saying you understand everything. One thing you always do is say your name (call sign) before you call, otherwise you're just a voice from the void. The pilot was so panicked it was just an outta onowhere "My trim's moving on its own!" Honestly at first it jist sounded like a stuck mic. I feel bad cus the person was so new they couldn't get themself to stop and think of a solution.
Pilot is not exactly the brightest bulb in the chandelier. RIP.
As far as I know, a sr 20 is equipped with a parachute (caps) system. I’m guessing he got task saturated focusing on trying to land rather than using it, or thinking of it.
He was too low for the parachute to help. The problem was the controller shouldn't have cleared the last plane on. The runway. The Cirrus was to close, but usually he would just been instructed to go around, but because of the emergency, that wasn't an option.
He tried to comply with the go around. sadly, it appears he should have just tried to land instead.
I’m not a pilot so I don’t know, but why did he continue to descend if he was having a problem? Couldn’t he have just pulled up a bit and stayed safely in the air even while drifting a bit due to the trim problem?
You’re not a pilot but you nailed the correct question.
Depending on the trim problem, he may not have had sufficient control authority to "pull up.". Also, he was in the terminal part of the flight, which would have severely affected his ability to control the situation. Finally, he was doing touch-and-goes, which suggests he may have been a low-hour pilot or returning after a period of low flight time. He may not have had the presence of mind or current experience to handle the situation.
@@detritus23 He was a student pilot. It’s true that he might have had no options and no way to pull up. He did, however, know about his trim problem pretty close to his turn from base to final judging from the timing of his panicked comments. It looks like he did not receive training on emergency trim procedure. (Or he forgot in his panic).
@@detritus23 terminal. Does that mean there’s just too much downward momentum to level off or pull up in time? He’s just too low and too fast?
@@banjo2019 Or, the trim malfunction made the aircraft unflyable in the flight regime it was in. We don’t know which trim system failed and what the consequences to the flight controls were. Some aircraft losing trim means extra control input, some aircraft will have the control surfaces lock due to the extra loading from the out of trim airflow. We just don’t know what he was experiencing. He may have been at full control deflection fighting to keep the aircraft from entering an unrecoverable flight regime. He may just have panicked. We just don’t know. (Edit: According to some unverified reports, the trim issue may have resulted in violent pitch oscillations, which may have stalled the aircraft.)
the student pilot panicked thats why he crashed he should of turned around but he forced himself to land but lost control of the aircraft instead by not using the wheel trim properly he probably put excessive trim on the wheel RIP
Can’t make mistakes when controlling Aircraft and plea’s for help! Bottom line
Very Sad that you don’t understand.
I never heard him say " I am declaring an emergency", nor the word emergency. Sounds like he lost his cool and started to freak out. Sad, never the less.
He does say "I have an emergency" right at 3:43, but doesn't ID himself, and doesn't sound like ATC heard him (the next thing she says is, "who's having a trim problem?).
Typical US radiotelephony discipline. Pilot in troubles is unable to communicate in proper way. If yes, the ATC could be notified, start with her emergency checklist and rid off the other traffic quickly. More over he is flying Cirrus and apparently not well trained and mishandled the trim runaway which is the memory item checklist. At least hit the bloody master switch if no idea what to do. Dead guy and destroyed airplane for no real reason. Normally I feel sorry. But in this case this should be a lesson for other easy minded pilots. Do not fly an airplane you are not well trained for.
“Do not fly an airplane you are not well trained for.” While I agree that pilot errors were made here, you know he was a student pilot right? Do not make youtube comments without checking facts first.
Look be a student is not an excuse. I never ever released student for solo flight without knowing he is safe for himself and others too. I do understand handling complex scenarios and multitasking is difficult for students. But knowing that this airplane has the electric trim not like Cessna 152 and have knowledge how it works is essential during type familiarization training. Additionally apparently CAPS training was skipped as well. He had a good chance to walk away. Now is the question how was his training done and how was his CFI. That's it. Fatal accident for no real reason. Sad and tragic.
@@zdenekanyz9870 Nowhere did I suggest that being a student is an excuse. You just seemed unaware of the pilot’s background from your comment.
Normally you feel sorry? But this time you don’t? Stay classy, dude. SMH.
"Normally I feel sorry, but in this case I'm a complete choad" -- fixed it for you 👍
Regardless of the fact that it wasn’t used. If one chooses to fly an aircraft with a ballistic parachute chances are they did so because they aren’t confident in their aviation skill set.
Run away trim alone isn’t enough to cause this. The layers of Swiss cheese all lined up for this to happen.
"If one chooses to fly an aircraft with a ballistic parachute chances are they did so because they aren’t confident in their aviation skill set. " Sure...probably the same reason Mike Patey chose to equip his experimental bush plane with a parachute - no confidence in his aviation skills...right...
Of all the dumb things posted in these threads, this is one of the worst. People only fly aircraft with BRS because they don’t trust their skills? Please. What is your aviation skill set, bozo? Someone is dead, and you not only disparage them, but an entire class of pilots. Do us all a favor, and skulk away in shame for your demonstrated stupidity.
What an ignorant comment.
This is most ignorant thing I have ever heard in my life. Shame on you
Time to remove the ejection seats from all those Air Force jets also lest we encourage culture of bad skill sets.
😪
My question is why would you fly a cirrus as student pilot. I mean is not illegal, but is not ideal specially with all the automated sustems it has. The instructor should have taught him that.
Sounds like his controls were being remotely manipulated
Nope
RIP