Leo plays patiently aggressive. He plays at a distance from his opponent where he is able to react and punish, but is also far enough away he is safe. And if you do nothing, he will punish you for it as well. He forces you to have to do something and beats that option. He never overcommits. Such a great player.
Yoshi Dragon Grabs. Or use Marth's sword. He has a disjoint which allows him to play outside his opponent's range. This is just a simplification of course, but Leo is really good at spacing. He uses minor adjustments with walking/slow walking and perfect pivoting.
ItsASquid Yeah and it dissapoints me too. The beauty of melee is its accessibility. You can play so many different ways. Smash 4 must force you to play a strict matchup. I dont like it
Joseph Franc Exactly. That's why I try to play aggressive even as Robin and Wario. It may not be optimal but it's more fun for me and people watching which is what counts in the end ^^
leo's neutral game is super interesting and different yet incredibly effective. dude already baited out a grab in the first exchange of game 1 by short hopping and perfect pivoting away lmao
Dude after Leo got 36% on that last stock he said fuckit i'm going hard. Ally didn't even touch him once after that and he had 0% when he got Leo to 36
maybe Ally should think about using more moves other than uptilt and upsmash Leo knew he was fishing for grabs and played defensively around it, good lad, nice to see Marth doing well
This shows exactly why Mario is bad with sword characters. When a very skilled player like MkLeo plays with Marth, Ally isn't going to win with mario. Ally should start practicing with another character if he wants to beat Leo's Marth.
+gitgud haters This MU is not even, lol. Are you serious? Have you ever been on smashboard? Most people there agree that Marth vs Mario MU is going to favor Marth. I hope you aren't assuming I'm degrading any of these players of achievements. I root for both Mkleo and Ally.
Yoshi Dragon Mkleo took two sets off of Ally at Canada Cup. Ally has lost to Leo multiple times. Ally only beat him once, and that was because at GOMl Leo was using metaknight. It may not be the whole reason why Leo won, but the MU is a major factor.
Ally really needs to play more patiently when taking early stocks like he did in game 4 I know that´s how mario´s playstyle works but just more bait would´ve helped him out a lot
Yeah, I wouldn't make that claim just yet (though I have no hesitation in counting him as second), but I would certainly agree that he at least has the huge *potential* to become the best in the world. From where I'm standing, I wouldn't be surprised if the result of this tourney ended up signifying the beginning of his dominance over the scene for the next while; we will see how he performs in the near future. If he can achieve the win at the next few majors in 2017, especially if those wins include taking sets off of ZeRo, then I would start labeling him as the new king.
This proves that it isnt Marth. Its Mkleo. Marth is not top 5 maybe not even top 10, mkleo is just that good. Best in the World in my opinion. Not off results but on how many times he can win neutral against his opponent in which to me determines the better player.
That's interesting, because he has a very strange tier list. If i recall correctly, his top 5 are, in this order: 1.- Bayonetta 2.- Sheik 3.- Ryu 4.- Cloud 5.- Marth So apparently there's more to it than him just liking Marth, he legitimately believes Marth is top tier. (You can find this conversation in one of MKLeo vs ZeRo sets in the latter's channel, although it's in spanish)
Interesting. But you also have to look at it in a general perspective. Not everybody plays like.mkleo. The average marth doesnt play like mkleo but what do I know? Again I feel like mkleo carries the character Marth up there I dont think Marth is top 5. Sure top 10 but not top 5. My list: 1. Cloud (He plays cloud as well to cover hard mu for marth like against dabuz's rosa) 2. Rosalina and Luma 3. Ryu 4. Bayonetta 5. Diddy/Sonic/Fox (I cant say)
Jacob Moreno There's just 1)what characters have won/top 8 a major 2) what characters can win/ top 8 a major but have not 3)what characters cannot win/top 8 a major. It's clear Marth is in the first category.
For me, a character (Cloud) that has such an exploitable weakness can't be ranked one when compared with others that are nearly flawless like Bayonetta or Sheik. Also, for me the greatest example of a character being carried is Rosalina. Not even the japanese guy who everyone thought would fare amazingly against everyone at EVO did well. Dabuz is the only relevant Rosa there is, unlike Marth that also has Mr. E and i think Pugwest.
Exploitable weakness is his only weakness, and your only argument. Of course he has that the character has to have a flaw just like Marth has his. Typical tho I dont blame you for believing marths top tier off of one tournament and one good player (best in the world imo). People are too quick to jump on the Marth bandwagon. You cant compare one pro player to the rest of the representitives of other characters like cloud. A tier list isnt only composed of results. A tier list is composed of how the character can carry a player. I believe Mkleo carrys Marth (marth is a fundamentally based character) in other words hes good yes but not top 5 hes solely dependant on the carrier/player. Recovery alone doesnt outweigh the rest of cloud. Cloud has amazing frame data, arials setups, limit, the list goes on... Recovery doesnt make a character despite the games knock off objective. 15% of gameplay is off stage. Cloud is too good on stage even off stage as well. You also have to consider the over saturation of representitives of each character as well, looking at one player is not suffice to justify your claims.
does anyone know why Ally doesn't use fireballs? even when he's in the lead it's like he feels the need to chase Leo and he always gets stuffed but Leo's nairs
gitgud haters I'd have to disagree with you on that, it's 55-45 Marth's favor. Yes if Mario gets in he can do a lot of damage, but Marth is usually trying to keep Mario at a distance. And not only that, a good Marth player will be able to keep Mario out very well.
ThunderShock Gaming "A good Marth player will know how to keep their opponent out". Well a good Mario should be used to this and figure a way in. I'm telling you dude as Marth main MK LEO is just exceptional at keeping his opponent out.
Leo plays patiently aggressive. He plays at a distance from his opponent where he is able to react and punish, but is also far enough away he is safe. And if you do nothing, he will punish you for it as well. He forces you to have to do something and beats that option. He never overcommits. Such a great player.
Yami Leo Salem and ZeRo all do this to varying degrees unsurprisingly lots of people think these guys are the top 3 players
how do you punish doing nothing? that would mean approaching which is no longer playing at a distance.
Yoshi Dragon Grabs. Or use Marth's sword. He has a disjoint which allows him to play outside his opponent's range. This is just a simplification of course, but Leo is really good at spacing. He uses minor adjustments with walking/slow walking and perfect pivoting.
Leo's Marth demonstrates exactly why waiting for your opponent to approach is the optimal Smash 4 strategy.
ItsASquid Yeah and it dissapoints me too. The beauty of melee is its accessibility. You can play so many different ways. Smash 4 must force you to play a strict matchup. I dont like it
Joseph Franc Exactly. That's why I try to play aggressive even as Robin and Wario. It may not be optimal but it's more fun for me and people watching which is what counts in the end ^^
If you're playing marth ofc
MK Leo bodies people like you fall asleep. Slowly, then all at once.
that last stock was a complete download lol
I like how Ally doesn't perfect pivot a whole lot and is still one of the best in the world.
leo's neutral game is super interesting and different yet incredibly effective. dude already baited out a grab in the first exchange of game 1 by short hopping and perfect pivoting away lmao
10:02 Choreography, even with music
Dude after Leo got 36% on that last stock he said fuckit i'm going hard. Ally didn't even touch him once after that and he had 0% when he got Leo to 36
Damn it MKLeo, you make me wanna play Marth, but I don't wanna mess with my melee Marth.
maybe Ally should think about using more moves other than uptilt and upsmash
Leo knew he was fishing for grabs and played defensively around it, good lad, nice to see Marth doing well
This shows exactly why Mario is bad with sword characters. When a very skilled player like MkLeo plays with Marth, Ally isn't going to win with mario. Ally should start practicing with another character if he wants to beat Leo's Marth.
Grant Dong This MU is even
+gitgud haters This MU is not even, lol. Are you serious? Have you ever been on smashboard? Most people there agree that Marth vs Mario MU is going to favor Marth. I hope you aren't assuming I'm degrading any of these players of achievements. I root for both Mkleo and Ally.
smashboard MUs are bolshit. And ally got a game off of him. Please dont assume this is a bad matchup because mkleo beat ally once smh
Yoshi Dragon Mkleo took two sets off of Ally at Canada Cup. Ally has lost to Leo multiple times. Ally only beat him once, and that was because at GOMl Leo was using metaknight. It may not be the whole reason why Leo won, but the MU is a major factor.
so why does ally go even or beat mr e?
55-45 Marth's favor (IMO at least), but good play by both players.
MK Leo is the second best player in smash the guy is God-like period😂👌🏿
9:45 walk forward/in-place foxtrot
Ally really needs to play more patiently when taking early stocks like he did in game 4
I know that´s how mario´s playstyle works but just more bait would´ve helped him out a lot
lmao, they referenced that match leo had with m2k a long time ago. 2:50
metasprite it's not to any particular match
Sujith Nakkala maybe, but yea pple have always been saying that
Why the all people on the chat wrote RASHIIIDOOOOO when this set happened. Not complain to
ok leo is the best player in the world
MopAwp nah maybe secound best but he still doesn't have the results of a number one player.
Yeah, I wouldn't make that claim just yet (though I have no hesitation in counting him as second), but I would certainly agree that he at least has the huge *potential* to become the best in the world. From where I'm standing, I wouldn't be surprised if the result of this tourney ended up signifying the beginning of his dominance over the scene for the next while; we will see how he performs in the near future. If he can achieve the win at the next few majors in 2017, especially if those wins include taking sets off of ZeRo, then I would start labeling him as the new king.
@@MrKiddyIcarus prediction? Yes sir
This proves that it isnt Marth. Its Mkleo. Marth is not top 5 maybe not even top 10, mkleo is just that good. Best in the World in my opinion. Not off results but on how many times he can win neutral against his opponent in which to me determines the better player.
That's interesting, because he has a very strange tier list. If i recall correctly, his top 5 are, in this order:
1.- Bayonetta
2.- Sheik
3.- Ryu
4.- Cloud
5.- Marth
So apparently there's more to it than him just liking Marth, he legitimately believes Marth is top tier. (You can find this conversation in one of MKLeo vs ZeRo sets in the latter's channel, although it's in spanish)
Interesting. But you also have to look at it in a general perspective. Not everybody plays like.mkleo. The average marth doesnt play like mkleo but what do I know? Again I feel like mkleo carries the character Marth up there I dont think Marth is top 5. Sure top 10 but not top 5.
My list:
1. Cloud (He plays cloud as well to cover hard mu for marth like against dabuz's rosa)
2. Rosalina and Luma
3. Ryu
4. Bayonetta
5. Diddy/Sonic/Fox (I cant say)
Jacob Moreno There's just 1)what characters have won/top 8 a major 2) what characters can win/ top 8 a major but have not 3)what characters cannot win/top 8 a major. It's clear Marth is in the first category.
For me, a character (Cloud) that has such an exploitable weakness can't be ranked one when compared with others that are nearly flawless like Bayonetta or Sheik. Also, for me the greatest example of a character being carried is Rosalina. Not even the japanese guy who everyone thought would fare amazingly against everyone at EVO did well. Dabuz is the only relevant Rosa there is, unlike Marth that also has Mr. E and i think Pugwest.
Exploitable weakness is his only weakness, and your only argument. Of course he has that the character has to have a flaw just like Marth has his. Typical tho I dont blame you for believing marths top tier off of one tournament and one good player (best in the world imo). People are too quick to jump on the Marth bandwagon. You cant compare one pro player to the rest of the representitives of other characters like cloud. A tier list isnt only composed of results. A tier list is composed of how the character can carry a player. I believe Mkleo carrys Marth (marth is a fundamentally based character) in other words hes good yes but not top 5 hes solely dependant on the carrier/player. Recovery alone doesnt outweigh the rest of cloud. Cloud has amazing frame data, arials setups, limit, the list goes on... Recovery doesnt make a character despite the games knock off objective. 15% of gameplay is off stage. Cloud is too good on stage even off stage as well. You also have to consider the over saturation of representitives of each character as well, looking at one player is not suffice to justify your claims.
"Let's go, Elliott!"
My man shared a tear for ally :-)
jrnoobzero shed*
does anyone know why Ally doesn't use fireballs? even when he's in the lead it's like he feels the need to chase Leo and he always gets stuffed but Leo's nairs
gizmobirdman lag probably
What is an adc aerial
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The way Leo plays Marth in this matchup, he makes it look like 60-40 in Marth favor. Ally could barely get in with all those disjoints.
Dapuffdaddy 69 Its 50/50
Dapuffdaddy 69 If Mario gets in he wins if he doesn't he lose. it's just that Leo is really good at keeping his opponent out.
gitgud haters I'd have to disagree with you on that, it's 55-45 Marth's favor. Yes if Mario gets in he can do a lot of damage, but Marth is usually trying to keep Mario at a distance. And not only that, a good Marth player will be able to keep Mario out very well.
ThunderShock Gaming "A good Marth player will know how to keep their opponent out". Well a good Mario should be used to this and figure a way in. I'm telling you dude as Marth main MK LEO is just exceptional at keeping his opponent out.