Lunar Lake Overview: In-Depth With Lead Architect and Design Mgr. | Talking Tech | Intel Technology
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 25 มิ.ย. 2024
- Lunar Lake is our next generation mobile processor designed from the ground up for premium, low-power, AI PCs. In this episode of Talking Tech, we sit down with Arik Gihon, CPU and SoC Hardware Architecture Lead, and Yaron Alankry, VP and GM of Silicon Engineering Group, to talk about the goals that guided Lunar Lake’s design. You’ll learn about Lunar Lake’s highly performant Low Power Island composed of rearchitected E-cores; the benefits of including memory on package as well as an innovative memory side cache on the SoC; how multiple PMICs and variable power delivery optimize efficiency; and how exciting evolutions of our NPU and built-in Intel Arc GPU will make Lunar Lake a powerhouse processor for AI and Copilot+ PCs.
Architecture All Access: Live at Lunar Lake ITT: Lunar Lake Architecture Overview • Architecture All Acces...
Chapters:
00:00 - Intro
00:42 - The design philosophy of Lunar Lake
02:20 - What were the goals?
03:43 - Benefits of memory on package
04:52 - Disaggregated design and tiles
06:13 - P-cores overview
07:58 - E-cores overview
11:00 - Separating P-core and E-core clusters
12:43 - Memory side cache
14:53 - Benefits of PMICs
17:23 - What’s new for graphics?
19:10 - Lunar Lake NPU and AI
20:02 - Platform Controller Tile
21:05 - Construction and Foveros
23:11 - Outro
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Can't wait to see this in a handheld. 🤤
Intel striking back with a mean kick! Lunar Lake seems amazing! This is a real Apple M4 competitor!! Well done Intel!!
we will see about that
Maybe on the low end but the M4 max will decimate anything intel comes out with on mobile. The HX mobile will be up there but it’s an energy hog.
wait for the actual relelse , they are not trust worthy anymore
@@mmo0J they r using TSMC so it should work
M4 Max , M4 Ultra and M4 Extreme on the Mac Pro will be faster than this, let’s be real here this is for laptops only.
Arrow Lake, Panther Lake, and eventually Beast Lake by Intel, will be Intels next generation desktop releases.
Super interesting deep dive in Lunar Lake architecture! Can't wait to see this tested in laptops
Very impressed by Intels Lunar Lake, and Intels Meteor Lakes performance in 8K video playback and compression impressed me greatly!
Let's go Lunar Lake!
super excited can't wait for 15th gen desktop
Intel seems to have solution to palliate all the inherent issue with the legacy of the x86 architecture, that is company that shows that it can renew its approach and truly excited about the release of the lunar lake cpu 😊
Can’t wait to get one of these in a handheld or mini PC.
Can't wait to have this on an SBC. Also, please scale this for desktops.
Intel Lunar Lake and Arrow Lake with the new P core, E core, NPU 4.0 and Arc Xe2 gonna destroy Amd, Apple, and Qualcomm. Intel real comeback is here !!!
Qualcomm??????? AMD!!!!!????????? You trippin
Arrow Lake is rumored to be slower than the 14900KS, but I don’t completely believe it, even if they regress clock speed and disable hyperthreading, if they use TSMC 3nm, Intel is more competitive again.
Yep Intel comeback after Iris Xe 2020. Amd become much lazy after 6800u
Love all of Alejandro's videos!
Love Intel
Smart!
Question if an app is using 8 threads will 4 run on ECore and 4 on PCore? the question is will they run simultaneously, and what is the penalty for memory synchronization (if the memory l3 is segregated won't the synchronization have to happen in RAM making it slower?)? From what I hear the idea seems like to switch the processing over to P core when more performance needed, so wanted a clarification on what happens when 8 threads are active. Is the OS going to see 8 CPU cores or 4?
I like the idea that all cores are on the same chiplet and on the leading node. But I just donot understand removing l3 cache from ECores, Or having l4 cache to synch between PCore and ECore. This will be very efficient for some tasks that are single threaded but for multithreaded working on the same data I see a problem. But then again such a workload is more server centric or scientific/statistical data.
Hi alehaandro.. Greeting from habibi from baghdad❤❤... Waiting for intel to release it's cpu in the middle East..
great set of innovations .. time will tell if its a snapdragon elite killah .. but it looks like it could be .. nice GPU and power profile !
Atom cores :) 14:13
i'm waiting this processor on handheld pc gaming or steam deck v2 on intel
Finally, this chip was supposed to come q2 last year
what is that Metallic U shape thing on the periphery of chip?
Yeah that’s a good question
It's a stiffener! It's there to help physically brace the board for the connections, coolers, and whatever else manufacturers want to do with Lunar Lake.
@@IntelTechnology thanks! Lunar lake looks sexy
With 32GB embedded LPDDR5X into the SOC, would that mean you no need memory slots for Lunar lake? I don't know the quality of memory and cpu, which is more pro to quality problem, if the memory failed, would that mean you have to replace the whole soc? That will be not good.
Why is thunderbolt 5 not integrated within the cpu ? I see you have 8 lanes of pcie so perhaps some laptop designs will support a discrete tb5 controller?
Thunderbolt 5 still isn't ready yet, it seems like. And even the discrete controllers that are out today that support "Thundebolt 5" only support it for DisplayPort 2.1, they can't actually support 80Gb/s of bidirectional bandwidth.
@@utubekullanicisiwhat do you mean isn’t ready yet? They announced it, last year, no?
Nonetheless, lunar lake appears impressive.
@@j340_official There's generally 1-2 years of gap between the announcement of a new spec standard (be it PCIe, WiFi, or Thunderbolt), and products actually coming out and shipping in volume with that new standard.
@@j340_official the Razer Blade 18 already has a thunderbolt five port, and it is an Intel machine.
@@utubekullanicisiIntel is unique because it is the steward of Thunderbolt technology. It donated the spec to the USB-IF. And Intel also designs/manufactures its CPUs (although they are now using external foundry capacity) and SoCs.
So I would think that if they were ready in 2023 to announce TB5 to the world, then silicon IP block is ready, drivers are ready, the OS kernel is ready. And given that lunar lake is launching almost a year after the TB5 announcement, it is not outside the realm of reasonableness to wonder why TB5 (and not TB4) isn’t embedded in the new SoC. The design teams at Intel had to have known TB5 was coming.
Perhaps there are issues with the early firmware and/or validation and interoperability verification would take too long and would delay launch ?
h.266 VVC only Decode?
plz make it possible so that i can use my laptop the whole day for office and browsing
Congratulations Intel on focusing on power efficiency. Your competitors have been focused on that and your former customer Apple is focused on that.
It made a lot of sense to focus your designs specifically on mobile vs trying to make a single chip architecture to target 5-125W. Again, congratulations. Lunar lake seems like an impressive engineering achievement.
What's the TOPS performance for these guys?
48 Tops I believe
48 for NPU and overall taking into account NPU, GPU and CPU is ~120 Tops
Does this mean we can have a tablet that runs X86 programs?
Yes, but there is already Windows tablets and hybrids that run on Intel CPUs with full x86-x64.
You break my heart again. Thunderbolt 5 was announced October 2023. I'm sad Thunderbolt 5 is not integrated on Lunar Lake. The MSI Claw 8 would have been epic with Thunderbolt 5. Anyway Oculink thank you.
it doesnt support thunderbolt 5？
Not having integrated TB5 doesn't mean TB5 won't exists on Lunar Lake or Arrow Lake. OEM can still add TB5 external controller although it maybe a bit inferior compared to integrated.
@@runninginthe90s75 what would be the use case where Thunderbolt 4 is not sufficient? EGPU is one of the use cases for which Thunderbolt has not yet delivered on the promise. The main limitation has been bandwidth. Thunderbolt 5 is still not enough but I'll take double the bandwidth of Thunderbolt 3 and 4, than the joke Thunderbolt 4 was compared to Thunderbolt 3.
For eGPU an integrated solution will be better compared to a discrete solution, for two reasons: latency and adoption rate.
We didn't see any Thunderbolt 5 adoption with Meteor Lake and there is little hope for Lunar Lake.
Putting Thunderbolt 5 in a device with a dGPU is a waste.
Can we get memory on package for desktop PCs?
Why would you want this? It makes upgrading harder and more expensive, because you need to replace both the CPU and RAM in order to upgrade one of the two. It makes sense for laptops to use on-package RAM in order to reduce size and weight, but is pointless on desktops.
@@nathangamble125 For better performance and less power consumption. Every segment of the computing market is heading towards the same direction except for desktop PCs. A CPU offering 32GB and 64GB on chip should be more than enough for most users. You shouldn't sacrifice performance for expandability when most people aren't going to expand their system after their initial purchase. Not to mention the overall reduction in system cost. Less motherboard traces, fewer RAM slots, better power management requirements, cooling, smaller form factor, better software compatibility. The benefits are endless.
It would be possible, but makes the socket pretty large. Look at the size of the LNL tiles next to the twin DRAM chips. Now imagine twice as much DRAM for higher capacity or more bandwidth. People also really value their expandability, so you'd either need to convince people to let that go, offer so much memory that nobody would want more (256GB on the current desktop platforms, for example) and drive costs up, or have enough controllers to have both on-package and expandable memory.
It seems like on desktop boards the next best thing to this would be a shift towards widespread adoption of CAMM2. The form factor would allow for quad-channel to make a comeback at the high end, or just to push faster clocks through dual-channel.
I hope lunar lake will have an overclocking feature, especially the graphics with both the cpu and gpu being voltage limited to 1.36v when overclocking. Proper RAM memory. For example, lunar lake i3 will have 4-8gb ram, i5 12-16gb and i7 16-32gb, i9 >32gb ram. I only buy fastest overclockable cpu intel like 14900ks or 13900hk, now mine is 13900hk. intel must have overclockable all product like amd and best overcloking tool have many function like amd for all cpu. ALL CPU, ESPECIAL IS IGPU MUST HAVE OVERCLOCKABLE
I don't think Lunar Lake will support overclocking since this part is specifically designed for low power, thin and light laptops, and overclock is too much for those designs.
Lunar lake is only available in 16gb and 32gb
Lunar Lake is mobile only. It comes in roughly 9-32W packages and will have locked multipliers. The on-package memory will come in either 16 or 32GB, though technically 24GB is possible to make with mis-matched memory ICs. The plan is to just offer 32GB on SKUs that would have that as far as I'm aware. The plan is likely to have Core Ultra 3s and some 5s sitting at 16GB, and then the rest at 32GB.
For overclocking or more you'd want to be looking at Arrow Lake, which will have desktop and mobile lines just like Raptor Lake being offered alongside Meteor Lake.
Fanless and powerfull design.
Intel must have considered a better naming of the "Efficiancy Core" to something more assertive, stronger, something like "Power Core", and stop short of "Hard Core".. always worked for me.
yes, and they should change name of 'performance core' to 'weakling core'
Objective is performance to power. Now by going to N3B and left Intel Tech behind the real competition start: Who is the better designer. For desktop with get stressed with more threads than cores the game is over for now. So the desktop market follow what is demonstrated in server market but have less slowing momentum.
BTW the one question pop up how to work out the cache consistence for thread switching. As there is no API for load crtitically at the time the threadmaster decide on load there is already cache usage on the wrong cores. Red solution seams to generate less hickups.
The IPC & perf uplifts look great (stunning for Skymont). But Intel needs to focus on efficiency, not performance. Still seem to be far behind Apple/Qualcomm in efficiency
isn't the whole video about efficiency, rather than power?
@@nevzataydin1 The efficiency gains are good, but Intel's coming from SO FAR behind. The gains don't seem big enough to close the HUGE gap with Apple/Qualcomm/Arm. But hopefully they at least pass AMD in efficiency
I WANT 5GHZ IGPU
With a GPU you'd much rather it be wider than faster. More cores working in parallel crunching more pixels and tracing more rays at once. Compare 8 Xe cores to 4 at the same power budget. You can't double the frequency because the relationship is not linear, so the 8 cores pull ahead despite being slower. What I'd rather see for a more performant iGPU would be 12 Xe Cores in a dedicated power region with a large cache. At the same power budget you could likely see +25% performance with lower clocks than current, and at the same clocks you would see +50% or so. The price you pay for more cores is a lot though, as it also means 50% more die area consumed.
Simple. Lunar Lake is a lake on the moon.
Is it ARM or 86?
x86
X86 more efficient than Arm
@@ehtasam2080 what? no
x86_64
@@ehtasam2080lol
🇮🇱 🇮🇱 🇮🇱 🇮🇱
We are proud of you!
i am not sure how competetive will 4+4 core setup be. HX370 and X Elite has 12 P cores.
npu is a waste of space
It's a shame Intel now is using TSMC fab for their lunarlake
windows: "relax apple, I will make it slow."
We don't care, where is arrow lake?
Intel is finally learning some lessons from ARM and M1. Now, you only need to go RISC and you’ll be close to the M1/M2. I returned my Core Ultra 7 because the laptop was so hot doing absolutely nothing! Until Intel can offer something better than Qualcomm, I’ll stick with ARM-based RISC chips.
Too much marketing jargon. We just want to know, can it beat M3 max, or M4 or even X elite?!
Intel - when they finally learned Apple M1 lesson 😂
#BDSfail
Intel has no future. Arm is the future. X86 has too much legacy bagagge. Intel gpu is inferior to amd. So the perfect laptop should have arm based cpu, unified memory and nvidia gpu. Nvidia is making arm based soc next year
What bs you're smoking btw..
This chip apparently catches up or even exceeds arm processor performance
Did you study x86, intel plan before writing this or is it again just rage because you believe all the marketing of the other players ?
Keep dreaming...