@Ben Levin and I’ve learned so much from you *and* David. Between you two, Tantacrul, Aimee, June Lee and Adam, my music game has been raised and I’m loving it.
+fikradas, you are all beyond all doubt irritating individuals. The Simpsons came out at the later half of the 20th century whilst the Rite of Spring has been around for over 20 years! Of course the Simpsons inspired it!
Swing it a little and you got Duke Ellington's Ko-Ko, which I always thought sounded like Duke had Igor in mind when he composed it. th-cam.com/video/5CO8_Ktro-w/w-d-xo.html
12:03 Important fact about the original Star Wars: George Lucas originally intended to score the entire film using classical music like 2001 A Space Odyssey. It took his friend Steven Spielberg to convince him to use John Williams who had recently scored Jaws for him, and even then, Lucas wouldn't budge much from his original intentions. After George was blown away by the first Star Wars score, he let Williams off the reigns for the second film, Empire Strikes Back, and the score is completely different to a degree that it's intentionally separating itself from the first film. There's a lot of good atonal writing in that score. I often hear Williams being called a thief, but 95% of the examples of him "copying" previous works are from Star Wars. The movie industry is filled with directors who won't budge from their temp tracks so most of the time it's out of the composer's control.
"but 95% of the examples of him "copying" previous works are from Star Wars" If you are trying to say he only copied from himself, you dont know what you are talking about. Not to discredit JW, hes still amazing. But you have to recognize his "borrowing" from Holst, Mahler, Stravinsky, Bartok, Prokofiev etc.. You cant truly appreciate JW if you are just blindly idealizing him as absolutely original and dont even recognize where his musical lineage came from
@@KinkyLettuce That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying that 95% of the examples that exist of John Williams copying previous composers is from Star Wars. He's copied other composers on occasion (most likely by the request of a director), but the vast majority are in Star Wars because it was meant to be scored to classical music before Williams was brought on.
Wow, I've never seen video clips of Stravinsky himself before, he really looks as crazy as you would expect from someone who writes stuff as shocking as the rite of spring! Also, I love videos like this that explain little pieces of music I like, it makes me go back to the piece and listen for details I had not noticed before. It really helps to appreciate these masterpieces even more.
In high school our music teacher made us listen to Stravinsky's Symphony of Psalms. I was always told that Stravinsky was dissonant and not supposed to be pleasant to listen to, but this was so beautiful it gave me chills. I guess only one other kid appreciated it (and he's now director of the Leipzig Opera)
One of my favorites also. Someone's put it on YT with the score, which is great. I used to check out those pocket scores from the music library at my university and follow along.
@@ChurchOfTheHolyMho we were given the score when we listened to it in class... I then transcribed some of the more epic parts from that for the electric guitar 🤣
YESSSSS I can't get enough of rite of spring analyses!! This piece is just so jam packed with pure musical rawness and absolutely banger harmonies!!! I almost jumped up and down with excitement over 13:14, this is by far my favourite part of the entire piece. The way it dissolves into dissonance is just pure beauty
You know the first time I heard Rite of Spring in a concert I detested it so much that I found a convenient (and non-disturbing) way to leave the concert. Fortunately it was in the first part with a Mozart in the second. The next time I heard it was at a friend's house. He was demonstrating his "cool" new stereo system (it was cool). I left to talk with his wife in the kitchen. Then for 25 years I avoided that piece like it spread the plague. But then my brother liked it and played it and I listened and was not totally repulsed. I have come to appreciate it and own a copy of a performance. I won't say that I enjoy it but I appreciate it. After your discussion of the theory behind the composition I was really impressed with the talent to create it. I'll listen to it with "new ears" the next time I play it. Thanks so much for the demonstration of the theory and the very good explanations that went with it!!!
The idea that repetition legitimize is perhaps nowhere more apparent than in birdsong, where melodies and harmonies we consider dissonant transform into beauty before our ears and become meditative. Perhaps Stravinsky being influenced by nonhuman musicking is apparent in his approach to Rite.
@@Ana_crusis I cannot possibly respond to all of your concerns on social media. Is consonance and dissonance unchanging through time? Universals? I obviously misunderstood what you were getting at with your first reply to my comment on the video. But my choice of chickadee birdsong is because of where I stand. I have stood on other soils but they are not mine. I have yet to hear a place where the bird soundscape is entirely what music theorists have delineated as consonant. Often one of the first things I notice is how dissonant it sounds to me but then over hours or days I acclimate to the music and it becomes beautiful. For me it is a transformation from dissonance to consonance. If you were merely here to troll me, then I'm sorry I took time thinking about what you said and responding.
Theorist Joseph N. Straus is one of more recent analysts to provide a really illuminating take on "The Rite" since Taruskin and Van Der Toorn had the last word on the subject. He says that a lot of the constructions can be explained by way of two fifths - usually a half-step apart - which is then emphasized by having a melodic line that is concerned with outlining a fourth relationship of one of the two fifths. For example, the Augurs moment, you have E-B (spelled Fb-Cb) against Eb-Bb, and the repeated more linear fragment outlines Eb-Bb. In Petrushka's opening the two alternating chords against that melody in the flutes which, again, outlines that A-D fourth. Great video!
The expression "repetition legitimizes" reminds me of a part in the children's book "Le Petit Prince", where the little prince meets the fox and asks to play with him, but the fox says he must be tamed first, although the French word used is "apprivoiser", which can also mean to socialize, to familiarize, to connect with. The passage I thought of was "To me, you are still nothing more than a little boy who is just like a hundred thousand other little boys. And I have no need of you. And you, on your part, have no need of me. To you, I am nothing more than a fox like a hundred thousand other foxes. But if you tame me, then we shall need each other. To me, you will be unique in all the world. To you, I shall be unique in all the world." I find the idea similar to how in music like Schoenberg's there are many dissonances one after the other, but in the Rite of Spring Stravinsky allows us to connect with and get to know these dissonances in more detail, and see them as not just another dissonance but a familiar harmony. It's also similar to the idea that people are more likely to sympathize with individuals rather than crowds.
I first heard that excerpt in a musical setting by Countermeasure, a Canadian a cappella group. It's called Fox in the Field - look it up, it's gorgeous!
Weird. I read another comment recently using this exact same quote. Is that one of those tines where repetition legitimizes? If only I could remember where I read it before...
I listened to the Rite of Spring for the first time on TH-cam years ago. That was a crazy experience, but when i heard it live 2 years ago? Now that was a experience. I recommend all of you to take the chance if you can see The Rite live (when this covid stuff is gone of course)
I think Petrushka needs more love. Sacre gets all of the attention for being so ground-breaking, but Petrushka had already moved far, far beyond the Rimsky-esque world of Firebird.
Both a new Tantacrul AND David Bruce upload back to back?? I really needed this, thank you! Great content as always, Stravinsky had been a great influence to my musical evolution
In this stravinsky example, i think that it's harder not to feel annoyed but the dissonance (and rather sound good) doesn't have to do a lot with repetition legitimazes, but more with the fact that it's played on different instruments. For me, it sounds way more dissonant when played on the piano that how stravinsky does it. I mean, you still feel uneasy, but it's not as bad sounding as when played on piano. Well, at least that's how it sounds to me.
I think its a mix of both. the legitimacy of these chords are a result of the repetition and the juxtaposition of two instruments. I mean, David Bruce said himself about the chilling feel of "The Sacrifice" which takes advantage of the many instruments and uses the disconnect between different instruments to enhance the dissonance.
That section from spring rounds is one my favourite of the rite of spring, so beautiful, and it grows so much in intensity! I’m So happy that you talk about it!
Yeah, although it really should be mentioned that when writing for film it's not really up to the composer how the music is to sound. In fact, most film composers don't even own the music they write.
@@JoshuaKallenberg True enough. But it makes it harder to get a distinctive, idiosyncratic score. Bernard Herrmann would stop the projectionist during a spotting session and demand a screening with no temp tracks. This gave him a reputation for being difficult and ill-tempered, but it also gave him the license to write some of the greatest film scores in all of cinema. Too bad he was pretty much the only composer who could get away with that. But let's get real - when your writing to picture, it's a lot more technical. Much more craft than art, like painting a picture to be hung in the lobby of an office building - it has to be the right kind of bland, and you can only use colors that blend with the decor.
Thanks for this awesome analysis of Rite of Spring, great video! One minor correction (pun intended): the second chord at 12:27 is actually C# minor with an E-natural. So he fully maximizes the clash against the strings in both of these alternating chords. Quite a chilling effect.
My composition teacher (Vladimír Bokes) presented me the theory about "the chord", that it is mix of V. and VI. degree in functional harmony, taken form some Wagner work. I can't recall from which one, but it doesn't seem so important to me. More interesting idea came from approach he used quite often. He was pointing at parallels in other art forms, so he compared Picasso's paintings where you at the same time can see the front and the profile of the person with chords where you can hear for example V. and VI. degree at the same time.
Thanks for this video! I just have one thing about it: in 08:11 you played, at the left hand, E7 - and Stravinsky didn't use the 7th. I think this little difference could be important, since we have Eb and Db on the right hand top. So, that's a detail...
You should really write 'The Rite of Springfield'. Thank you so much for the wild laughs! Even though I am worrying isolation has finally got to you 😆 Great video as always!
I do think it bears mention that the "inspiration" when it comes to film scores aren't really up to the composer, but the director, with the job of the composer being making new music that sounds as close to whatever piece the director chose as temp track. In the case of Star Wars, George Lucas had just chosen the Rite of Spring and basically just told John Williams to "do this". In general, how "original" a film score has generally very little to do with the abilities of the composer - John Williams is an incredible composer who has written a ton of completely original stuff outside of his film scores - and much more to do with how strong/clear the directive from the film's director is. Also worth remembering that film directors usually have no idea what they are talking about when it comes to music.
Absolutely. But while directors should not have to be musically literate, I think they should afford the composer the same respect they usually give actors. What they often do to the composer would be the equivalent of making actors exactly imitate others' line readings. I've heard Francis Coppola is a joy to work with because his usual attitude is "do what you think is right and we'll talk about it if it's not working." He pretty much left Wojciek Kilar alone when scoring _Bram Stoker's Dracula._ It also helps to know that Coppola composes music, himself. Respect!
That phrase at around 14:15 minute mark built around Ebmin9 chord and especially the bass movement is an obvious inspiration for Basil Poledouris' "Wheel Of Pain" from Conan The Barbarian OST.
The bass part in the last section you talked about is quoted wonderfully in Esbjörn Svensson Trio's Reminiscence of a Soul (hidden song at the end of the track). I was absolutely delighted to find this out, watching this video.
@@MongerOfStrings8222 no it does... The same people that will gush over this music (even though it has a chord that repeats 59 times) will shit on pop for only having 4 chords that repeat...
@@tom_4615 you're missing stravinsky's point. He does that intentionally because he gives more emphasis on the irregular rythm that the prehistoric tribesmen do, pop uses the same chords and most of the time the same rythm. Also stravinsky uses instruments in very innovative ways. +other points i have but i'm too bored to write them down now
Also - if you watch the whole video, he gets this look of maniacal triumph when it ends. It's a terrific performance, and I always thought that look just put the perfect cap on it.
I think that one of the most underrated aspects of Stravinsky's music is his melodicism. To my brain, Stravinsky wrote some of the most beautiful melodies in classical music and he regarded melody the most essential element of music. He said "...I am that melody must keep its place at the summit of the hierarchy of elements that make up music. Melody is the most essential of these elements, not because it is more immediately perceptible, but because it is the dominant voice of the symphony not only in the specific sense, but also figuratively speaking." Amazing video David!
@@Bati_ The Rite as well as the Brandenburg Concertos and bebop. It was the first time he had been exposed to any serious 20th Century music and was a life-changing revelation.
Spring Rounds is my favorite part of the entire piece to be honest. It's a bit of a shame that many people overlook that portion on account of it being one of the parts that the film "Fantasia" excluded (the others being "Ritual of the Rival Tribes" "Procession of the Sage" and the final "Sacrificial Dance"). Unlike the other three excluded, however, Spring Rounds doesn't have a large amount of rhythmic complexity compared to Procession's intense polyrhythms near the end played by the guiro, Ritual's powerful timpani and frequently changing meter with an Olympic-esque theme, and the Sacrificial Dance's notorious 5/16, 3/16, and 2/16 bars. This is a bit of a letdown, considering that many conductors don't focus on making the Spring Rounds section work as hard as the others as a consequence. It's a bit depressing for a Spring Rounds enjoyer like myself because the dramatic glissandi in the trombone are weakened, and the intensity of this part is also weakened as a consequence. One of the only interpretations that properly portrays this glissando that I could find was a 1958 recording by Leonard Bernstein and the New York Philharmonic. Only that recording, as far as I can recall, possesses the same intensity that the passage requires.
Wow David, this video gave me chills! And I mean, your words, not only Stravinsky's music! Super well done, great thoughts. I relate a lot to the video as I did a research project on repetition in music and a masters thesis on musical form and I must say, I was still blown away!!! Fist thing I do when I get my job back is to be your Patreon!
Disappointed the bird isn't called Andrew Bird, but I'll let it slide. It's also fortunate that Matt Groening so fundamentally understood the inner machinations of the Rite of Spring, otherwise the Simpsons just wouldn't have been the same.
Mr. Bruce, thank you very much for all your excellent videos. A correction for you: at 12:28 and 12:40 you name and play what Stravinsky wrote as a C-sharp minor chord as C-sharp Major.
david, you surprise me and astound me with your ability of clever crafting of content for many to enjoy always. content poridge i love everytrhing u speak of.
Interesting that you used a harmon mute to translate bird speak, us trumpeters use it to translate our music into horrifying ear-shattering chalkboard-scratching torture
Hey! Thanks for this very inspirational video. I don't know if it has already been pointed out, but at 12:29, the chord is a Csharp MINOR chord, not major, as you said and played. this adds one more dissonance to the resulting harmony.
3 ปีที่แล้ว +3
Such a great video, also pretty funny, the funky mashup with stravinsky's "vocals" is amazing 🤘🏼
I was never teached Rite ofSpring like that , but you are right . Thanks ! Next : Harmony in Carl Orff 's Carmina Burana. Thanks ! ( BTW : One day , after maybe 30 years of listening to it , when I saw the score , I was quite impress by L'Apprenti Sorcier by Dukas . I told myself : " How come such a complex music harmonicaly is so easy to listen to for children ? " I used it quite a lot in my primary school music lessons .
I know this is small, but the way you're turned just slightly away from the camera at different points in the video like 4:04 creates more visual depth and interest and be worth *repeating* in future videos
So, what happens if I keep saying “Repetition does not legitimize. Repetition does not legitimize. Repetition does not legitimize. Repetition does not legitimize. ...”
13:14 I was like "I've heard this before! I've heard this before!" Esbjorn Svensson included "Spring Khorovod" as a hidden track at the end of "Good Morning Susie Soho"... man, this makes me so happy
I did a presentation on folk music used in Rite of Spring in college. It’s everywhere. Basically every motive used is a fragment of a melody from an old anthology of Russian folk tunes. And what’s more every motive that he used was in the upper right hand corner of the right page as if he was just flipping through and jotting down fragments to use in the piece. However he denied using folk music. Great video.
Great video, however I disagree with calling the dominant seventh chord in the Funk example dissonant. Funk is very much based in the Blues, and in the Blues harmony doesn't quite follow the same principles as in classical music. The dominant seventh chord in this context is a point of rest (and therefore not dissonant) in my opinion. Adam Neely actually touched on that topic in his last video ("What key is Hey Joe in?"). Anyway, I really enjoy your videos and appreciate the work you put in making them! Greetings from Germany!
I dislike referring to a chord like C E G B♭ as a dominant seventh when it's not performing a dominant function; I think it's confusing. The major minor seventh chord, as this chord is also known , is "dissonant" in that it contains a "strongly dissonant" interval, the tritone (E B♭). However, as you say, in blues/funk/rock and roll, etc., the chord can and frequently does take tonic function, and as such is functionally consonant, making it by definition "not dissonant". Makes you think, eh! :-)
I think tonal tension and harmonic dissonance are slightly different things. Harmonic dissonance often creates tonal tension, but doesn't necessarily do that. For example atonal music is highly dissonant but has no tonal tension. And you can have a dissonant tonic chord. In jazz, it's common to use maj7#11 as a tonic, and it contains a lot of dissonant intervals. You can also have a completely consonant chord that creates tonal tension. The major V chord has a lot of tension, but isn't dissonant at all. I guess there's some nuance to this discussion, though, because often if you describe something as a dissonance, it also kind of implies a tendency to resolve to some kind of a consonance. And this resolution doesn't have to be V - I. It may also be Cdim7 to C major or E7b9 to E7. So, in this sense, dominant 7th chords aren't really used "as dissonances" in blues/funk. They are treated as completely stable sounds that don't need to be resolved, and don't even have any kind of a tendency to resolve - they are already "resolved". And in that sense, calling it a "dissonance" can be somewhat misleading. Still, it's more dissonant than major or minor triad, and does contain two dissonant intervals in it (minor 7th and tritone).
I totally agree with your assessment of Rite. The harmonies Stravinsky utilizes throughout are wonderfully rich and evocative of the incredibly dynamic century that was beginning to unfold. And his masterful orchestration brings out the inherent beauty and unbridled sensuality of his musical ideas.
I would have loved you as a music teacher back in Vienna. Mine was only lost, talking about the big confusion at the beginning of the 20th century. And this was in the 80th... ;))) Thx for sharing clear ideas with some fun and not taking everything so serious at it seems, specially in classic music.
The idea of repetition legitimizing long notes was on a “ Ten Commandments of performance”, given by my band teacher in high school. “ if you make an odd note, don’t stand up and say, sorry everybody, I messed up. They won’t know unless you tell them. if it is bad, they know it stands out already. Don’t make it a big deal. If we are in a repeat section . , try and duplicate that mistake in a more pleasing way. The audience may even be fooled into thinking it’s legit.”
Great work. Anyway, the 2nd chord at 12:28 is not C# Major in the score, but C# minor. It's a huge mistake, and I find it very strange that no one has noticed. Greetings from Italy.
Repetition legitimizes
Repetition legitimizes
Repetition legitimizes
Repetition legitimizes
Repetition legitimizes
Repetition legitimises
You made me laugh several times but that Wong/Stravinsky mash up was both hilarious and amazing all at once! Great job, my friend.
Thanks so much Aimee!
I'd love to hear more of it!
Was that mashup done just for this video??? I want to hear a full mashup!!
@@DBruce Wow the horn in the upper right corner was a really nice touch!
Came to say the same. Strawongsky wins the internet today. Brilliant.
Nice horn morph.
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"Once is a mistake, twice is jazz." Miles Davis
I guess Herbie Hancock did not repeat...
@@gtgaxiola I don't know about that, all what I know is that he didn't play the butter note ;)
And apparently, third is a motif.
“This quote is presumably fake.” - Miles Davis
I guess Jimmy Two Time speaks in Jazz
Just stopping by to say I am so grateful that you make these videos, I learn so much!
Ben, your humbleness is always so nice and refreshing
@Ben Levin and I’ve learned so much from you *and* David. Between you two, Tantacrul, Aimee, June Lee and Adam, my music game has been raised and I’m loving it.
Ayyy!!!! How's it going Ben?!
I can't believe the Simpsons predicted the rite of spring.
You're in a simulation of a simulation
Yes , they did ! 100 years after the fact !
They didn’t predict... they inspired Stravinsky
@@VANDYmusicofficial had us in the first half, ngl
+fikradas, you are all beyond all doubt irritating individuals. The Simpsons came out at the later half of the 20th century whilst the Rite of Spring has been around for over 20 years! Of course the Simpsons inspired it!
I had to double take at 0:31 - 0:34 It was so weird to see my own performance featured here! Haha Thanks for the share. Awesome video.
Your amazing!!
That funky Rite of Spring beginning at 4:39 deserves a Grammy on its own! And also a full scale version!
I was going to create a comment, but this represents me
Swing it a little and you got Duke Ellington's Ko-Ko, which I always thought sounded like Duke had Igor in mind when he composed it. th-cam.com/video/5CO8_Ktro-w/w-d-xo.html
@@Xlornick Nice catch, love the association!
Plunderphonics Where is jake lizzio????
goosbumps! dadadadada
12:03 Important fact about the original Star Wars: George Lucas originally intended to score the entire film using classical music like 2001 A Space Odyssey.
It took his friend Steven Spielberg to convince him to use John Williams who had recently scored Jaws for him, and even then, Lucas wouldn't budge much from his original intentions. After George was blown away by the first Star Wars score, he let Williams off the reigns for the second film, Empire Strikes Back, and the score is completely different to a degree that it's intentionally separating itself from the first film. There's a lot of good atonal writing in that score.
I often hear Williams being called a thief, but 95% of the examples of him "copying" previous works are from Star Wars. The movie industry is filled with directors who won't budge from their temp tracks so most of the time it's out of the composer's control.
Hold on, I recognise your name. You used to be a minecraft/tech minecraft player right?
@@Nooticus yep.
That’s really fascinating. The fact that the 2001 soundtrack was also partially the result of Kubrick getting attached to temp music is ironic
"but 95% of the examples of him "copying" previous works are from Star Wars"
If you are trying to say he only copied from himself, you dont know what you are talking about.
Not to discredit JW, hes still amazing. But you have to recognize his "borrowing" from Holst, Mahler, Stravinsky, Bartok, Prokofiev etc..
You cant truly appreciate JW if you are just blindly idealizing him as absolutely original and dont even recognize where his musical lineage came from
@@KinkyLettuce That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying that 95% of the examples that exist of John Williams copying previous composers is from Star Wars. He's copied other composers on occasion (most likely by the request of a director), but the vast majority are in Star Wars because it was meant to be scored to classical music before Williams was brought on.
Repetition legitimizes. Much like that famous rule of voice-leading, "Never use parallel fifths, but if you do, use them constantly."
I feel like we hear the chord so many times that we stop expecting it to resolve. It just exists in its own right.
It’s own Rite, if you will
@@RaysonWilliams Well done.
It's not even dissonant to my ears anymore
Wow, I've never seen video clips of Stravinsky himself before, he really looks as crazy as you would expect from someone who writes stuff as shocking as the rite of spring!
Also, I love videos like this that explain little pieces of music I like, it makes me go back to the piece and listen for details I had not noticed before. It really helps to appreciate these masterpieces even more.
06:52 This should've been the thumbnail for this video
Hahahah yes
"Do not go djently into that good night..."
In high school our music teacher made us listen to Stravinsky's Symphony of Psalms. I was always told that Stravinsky was dissonant and not supposed to be pleasant to listen to, but this was so beautiful it gave me chills. I guess only one other kid appreciated it (and he's now director of the Leipzig Opera)
One of my favorites also. Someone's put it on YT with the score, which is great. I used to check out those pocket scores from the music library at my university and follow along.
@@ChurchOfTheHolyMho we were given the score when we listened to it in class... I then transcribed some of the more epic parts from that for the electric guitar 🤣
The last time I was that early the Rite of Spring was consideered scandalous.
YESSSSS I can't get enough of rite of spring analyses!! This piece is just so jam packed with pure musical rawness and absolutely banger harmonies!!! I almost jumped up and down with excitement over 13:14, this is by far my favourite part of the entire piece. The way it dissolves into dissonance is just pure beauty
You know the first time I heard Rite of Spring in a concert I detested it so much that I found a convenient (and non-disturbing) way to leave the concert. Fortunately it was in the first part with a Mozart in the second. The next time I heard it was at a friend's house. He was demonstrating his "cool" new stereo system (it was cool). I left to talk with his wife in the kitchen. Then for 25 years I avoided that piece like it spread the plague. But then my brother liked it and played it and I listened and was not totally repulsed. I have come to appreciate it and own a copy of a performance. I won't say that I enjoy it but I appreciate it. After your discussion of the theory behind the composition I was really impressed with the talent to create it. I'll listen to it with "new ears" the next time I play it. Thanks so much for the demonstration of the theory and the very good explanations that went with it!!!
The idea that repetition legitimize is perhaps nowhere more apparent than in birdsong, where melodies and harmonies we consider dissonant transform into beauty before our ears and become meditative. Perhaps Stravinsky being influenced by nonhuman musicking is apparent in his approach to Rite.
I don't see birdsong as dissonant
@@Ana_crusis exactly. If you only heard a chickadee once in your life you might. But we've evolved with birds song, and repetition legitimizes.
th-cam.com/video/LfMsUuU9KtQ/w-d-xo.html
@@Shevock even if it did legitimize , it doesn't make dissonance go away
@@Ana_crusis I cannot possibly respond to all of your concerns on social media. Is consonance and dissonance unchanging through time? Universals? I obviously misunderstood what you were getting at with your first reply to my comment on the video. But my choice of chickadee birdsong is because of where I stand. I have stood on other soils but they are not mine. I have yet to hear a place where the bird soundscape is entirely what music theorists have delineated as consonant. Often one of the first things I notice is how dissonant it sounds to me but then over hours or days I acclimate to the music and it becomes beautiful. For me it is a transformation from dissonance to consonance. If you were merely here to troll me, then I'm sorry I took time thinking about what you said and responding.
Theorist Joseph N. Straus is one of more recent analysts to provide a really illuminating take on "The Rite" since Taruskin and Van Der Toorn had the last word on the subject. He says that a lot of the constructions can be explained by way of two fifths - usually a half-step apart - which is then emphasized by having a melodic line that is concerned with outlining a fourth relationship of one of the two fifths. For example, the Augurs moment, you have E-B (spelled Fb-Cb) against Eb-Bb, and the repeated more linear fragment outlines Eb-Bb. In Petrushka's opening the two alternating chords against that melody in the flutes which, again, outlines that A-D fourth. Great video!
06:51 ...if that impression was not so damn funny, I would be offended on Stravinsky's behalf, lol
The expression "repetition legitimizes" reminds me of a part in the children's book "Le Petit Prince", where the little prince meets the fox and asks to play with him, but the fox says he must be tamed first, although the French word used is "apprivoiser", which can also mean to socialize, to familiarize, to connect with. The passage I thought of was "To me, you are still nothing more than a little boy who is just like a hundred thousand other little boys. And I have no need of you. And you, on your part, have no need of me. To you, I am nothing more than a fox like a hundred thousand other foxes. But if you tame me, then we shall need each other. To me, you will be unique in all the world. To you, I shall be unique in all the world." I find the idea similar to how in music like Schoenberg's there are many dissonances one after the other, but in the Rite of Spring Stravinsky allows us to connect with and get to know these dissonances in more detail, and see them as not just another dissonance but a familiar harmony. It's also similar to the idea that people are more likely to sympathize with individuals rather than crowds.
I first heard that excerpt in a musical setting by Countermeasure, a Canadian a cappella group. It's called Fox in the Field - look it up, it's gorgeous!
Weird. I read another comment recently using this exact same quote. Is that one of those tines where repetition legitimizes?
If only I could remember where I read it before...
Time to get obsessed with rite of spring again
Your animation is on point, since its clearly in good spirit!
Ah Cory has gotta see this! I feel like he’d love it.
If Louis Cole's band occasionally quote the Rite, then I feel that Cory would probably at least know of the Rite too
A Cory Wong cameo in a David Bruce video on the Rites of Spring was not at all what I expected.
That mix and "Too ze end my deerrr"... perfect repetitive dissonance example. :D
That's so cool ! That's so cool ! That's so cool ! That's so cool ! That's so cool ! That's so cool ! That's so cool ! That's so cool !
I love this. It’s very gratifying to have a classical theorist “descend” to our simple folk genres of funk and djent.
Lol, what a regression! 🤣
13:14 reminds me of the lines ‘April is the cruelest month, breeding lilacs out of the dead land’
I listened to the Rite of Spring for the first time on TH-cam years ago. That was a crazy experience, but when i heard it live 2 years ago? Now that was a experience. I recommend all of you to take the chance if you can see The Rite live (when this covid stuff is gone of course)
@WM K - absolutely. I've got to the stage where I now can't listen to this as an orchestral piece, without the dancers
I saw it live in early 2020. It was the most metal thing I’ve ever experienced
The first time I heard the Rite of Spring I was totally blown away by how heavy it sounded, it was more metal than metal!
Go back farther and try some late Beethoven string quartets. Beethoven invented ragtime, boogie woogie and metal too..
Hey! That's my band Swing Shift Jazz Orchestra at 0:41 . I never thought we would make it onto a David Bruce Video!!
That was very nice review and breakdown. I love "Rite of Spring" such amazing piece. So complex for timings.
I think Petrushka needs more love. Sacre gets all of the attention for being so ground-breaking, but Petrushka had already moved far, far beyond the Rimsky-esque world of Firebird.
Lightnin’ Hopkins is reputed to have said “I don’t make mistakes, if I do, I make it again and then it isn’t a mistake....”
That's how I started smoking ;)
Both a new Tantacrul AND David Bruce upload back to back?? I really needed this, thank you! Great content as always, Stravinsky had been a great influence to my musical evolution
I never knew I needed a funky take on Rite of Spring.
This video remind me when i was take music composition school and my lecturer talked about this topic. Thank you David awesome video and very inspired
In this stravinsky example, i think that it's harder not to feel annoyed but the dissonance (and rather sound good) doesn't have to do a lot with repetition legitimazes, but more with the fact that it's played on different instruments. For me, it sounds way more dissonant when played on the piano that how stravinsky does it. I mean, you still feel uneasy, but it's not as bad sounding as when played on piano. Well, at least that's how it sounds to me.
I think its a mix of both. the legitimacy of these chords are a result of the repetition and the juxtaposition of two instruments. I mean, David Bruce said himself about the chilling feel of "The Sacrifice" which takes advantage of the many instruments and uses the disconnect between different instruments to enhance the dissonance.
That section from spring rounds is one my favourite of the rite of spring, so beautiful, and it grows so much in intensity! I’m So happy that you talk about it!
Apocryphal Stravinsky quote: "I achieve my consonance through *insistence*"
@13:22 Clare Fischer's song 'Morning' nods to Spring Rounds at a certain point midway in. Stravinsky meets Cha-Cha-Chá
David, just dropped in to say how much I love your work! Will send some bird seed presently!
Thanks
John Williams was VeRY inSpiREd bY it😂😭
The tyranny of temp tracks - "...I want it to sound just like this, but...you know...different..."
@@wingflanagan absolutely, temp is the bane of my existence haha
Yeah, although it really should be mentioned that when writing for film it's not really up to the composer how the music is to sound. In fact, most film composers don't even own the music they write.
@@JoshuaKallenberg yeah, and it makes sense though because the studio needs to be able to distribute in perpetuity so they need to own the rights
@@JoshuaKallenberg True enough. But it makes it harder to get a distinctive, idiosyncratic score. Bernard Herrmann would stop the projectionist during a spotting session and demand a screening with no temp tracks. This gave him a reputation for being difficult and ill-tempered, but it also gave him the license to write some of the greatest film scores in all of cinema. Too bad he was pretty much the only composer who could get away with that. But let's get real - when your writing to picture, it's a lot more technical. Much more craft than art, like painting a picture to be hung in the lobby of an office building - it has to be the right kind of bland, and you can only use colors that blend with the decor.
Thanks for this awesome analysis of Rite of Spring, great video!
One minor correction (pun intended): the second chord at 12:27 is actually C# minor with an E-natural. So he fully maximizes the clash against the strings in both of these alternating chords. Quite a chilling effect.
My composition teacher (Vladimír Bokes) presented me the theory about "the chord", that it is mix of V. and VI. degree in functional harmony, taken form some Wagner work. I can't recall from which one, but it doesn't seem so important to me. More interesting idea came from approach he used quite often. He was pointing at parallels in other art forms, so he compared Picasso's paintings where you at the same time can see the front and the profile of the person with chords where you can hear for example V. and VI. degree at the same time.
lol....the Stravinsky music & vid insert mashup over the funk groove....Absolutely priceless!..Till the end my dear!
13:15 my favourite part of the piece!
Thanks for this video! I just have one thing about it: in 08:11 you played, at the left hand, E7 - and Stravinsky didn't use the 7th. I think this little difference could be important, since we have Eb and Db on the right hand top. So, that's a detail...
Glad to see Joe Parrish here. His arrangement is amazing!
Joe Parrish's version made me hear The Rite with fresh new ears. Check him out!
@@grofinet That's it! Every now and then I come back to his playing, it's huge!
You should really write 'The Rite of Springfield'. Thank you so much for the wild laughs! Even though I am worrying isolation has finally got to you 😆 Great video as always!
I do think it bears mention that the "inspiration" when it comes to film scores aren't really up to the composer, but the director, with the job of the composer being making new music that sounds as close to whatever piece the director chose as temp track. In the case of Star Wars, George Lucas had just chosen the Rite of Spring and basically just told John Williams to "do this".
In general, how "original" a film score has generally very little to do with the abilities of the composer - John Williams is an incredible composer who has written a ton of completely original stuff outside of his film scores - and much more to do with how strong/clear the directive from the film's director is. Also worth remembering that film directors usually have no idea what they are talking about when it comes to music.
Absolutely. But while directors should not have to be musically literate, I think they should afford the composer the same respect they usually give actors. What they often do to the composer would be the equivalent of making actors exactly imitate others' line readings. I've heard Francis Coppola is a joy to work with because his usual attitude is "do what you think is right and we'll talk about it if it's not working." He pretty much left Wojciek Kilar alone when scoring _Bram Stoker's Dracula._ It also helps to know that Coppola composes music, himself. Respect!
That phrase at around 14:15 minute mark built around Ebmin9 chord and especially the bass movement is an obvious inspiration for Basil Poledouris' "Wheel Of Pain" from Conan The Barbarian OST.
me, watching this a second time to make sure i got it all: repetition legitimizes
The bass part in the last section you talked about is quoted wonderfully in Esbjörn Svensson Trio's Reminiscence of a Soul (hidden song at the end of the track). I was absolutely delighted to find this out, watching this video.
4:40 sharpen this 9th so you get the hendrix chord and stravinsky get into the purple haze
I’m really into Stravinsky right now, thanks for introducing me to the Ebony concerto!
Classical music snobs: pop music is so boring, it only uses 4 chords
Stravinsky: allow me to introduce myself 59 times
But Stravinsky isn't pop
@@MongerOfStrings8222 and?.. Lmao
@@tom_4615 The joke doesn't make much sense
@@MongerOfStrings8222 no it does... The same people that will gush over this music (even though it has a chord that repeats 59 times) will shit on pop for only having 4 chords that repeat...
@@tom_4615 you're missing stravinsky's point. He does that intentionally because he gives more emphasis on the irregular rythm that the prehistoric tribesmen do, pop uses the same chords and most of the time the same rythm. Also stravinsky uses instruments in very innovative ways. +other points i have but i'm too bored to write them down now
Nice that you bring up Joe Parrish's work - wonderful production, that.
Van Zweden has the right kind of face for Stravinsky. It adds to the music.
Also - if you watch the whole video, he gets this look of maniacal triumph when it ends. It's a terrific performance, and I always thought that look just put the perfect cap on it.
I think that one of the most underrated aspects of Stravinsky's music is his melodicism. To my brain, Stravinsky wrote some of the most beautiful melodies in classical music and he regarded melody the most essential element of music. He said "...I am that melody must keep its place at the summit of the hierarchy of elements that make up music. Melody is the most essential of these elements, not because it is more immediately perceptible, but because it is the dominant voice of the symphony not only in the specific sense, but also figuratively speaking." Amazing video David!
Amazing how you went through a whole video about repeating dominants without mentioning Steve Reich
Lol
The minimalists legitimizes
Fun Fact: Steve Reich decided to become a composer after hearing The Rite of Spring at the age of 14.
@@Bati_ The Rite as well as the Brandenburg Concertos and bebop. It was the first time he had been exposed to any serious 20th Century music and was a life-changing revelation.
Thank you for talking about the opening of the second part! I feel like it always gets lost amongst the Augers and Sacrificial dance. Great video!
didn't expect Cory Wong but that was a nice surprise :)
I've been a bit obsessed into this work and your video was amazing. It's one of the pieces that I can listen to a bit better every time I hear it.
Spring Rounds is my favorite part of the entire piece to be honest. It's a bit of a shame that many people overlook that portion on account of it being one of the parts that the film "Fantasia" excluded (the others being "Ritual of the Rival Tribes" "Procession of the Sage" and the final "Sacrificial Dance"). Unlike the other three excluded, however, Spring Rounds doesn't have a large amount of rhythmic complexity compared to Procession's intense polyrhythms near the end played by the guiro, Ritual's powerful timpani and frequently changing meter with an Olympic-esque theme, and the Sacrificial Dance's notorious 5/16, 3/16, and 2/16 bars. This is a bit of a letdown, considering that many conductors don't focus on making the Spring Rounds section work as hard as the others as a consequence. It's a bit depressing for a Spring Rounds enjoyer like myself because the dramatic glissandi in the trombone are weakened, and the intensity of this part is also weakened as a consequence. One of the only interpretations that properly portrays this glissando that I could find was a 1958 recording by Leonard Bernstein and the New York Philharmonic. Only that recording, as far as I can recall, possesses the same intensity that the passage requires.
Spring Rounds is chillingly beautiful
Spring Rounds is one of the greatest moments of music
Dear David, I love your videos! This one is phantastic again. With that little bird, you got me. See you on patreon! ❤
Excellent Video! John Williams shares his appreciation for "Rite of Spring" a fair amount in Spielberg's "War of the Worlds"
Wow David, this video gave me chills! And I mean, your words, not only Stravinsky's music! Super well done, great thoughts. I relate a lot to the video as I did a research project on repetition in music and a masters thesis on musical form and I must say, I was still blown away!!! Fist thing I do when I get my job back is to be your Patreon!
Disappointed the bird isn't called Andrew Bird, but I'll let it slide. It's also fortunate that Matt Groening so fundamentally understood the inner machinations of the Rite of Spring, otherwise the Simpsons just wouldn't have been the same.
Mr. Bruce, thank you very much for all your excellent videos. A correction for you: at 12:28 and 12:40 you name and play what Stravinsky wrote as a C-sharp minor chord as C-sharp Major.
Those stravinsky clips kill me each time
david, you surprise me and astound me with your ability of clever crafting of content for many to enjoy always. content poridge i love everytrhing u speak of.
Interesting that you used a harmon mute to translate bird speak, us trumpeters use it to translate our music into horrifying ear-shattering chalkboard-scratching torture
Hey! Thanks for this very inspirational video. I don't know if it has already been pointed out, but at 12:29, the chord is a Csharp MINOR chord, not major, as you said and played. this adds one more dissonance to the resulting harmony.
Such a great video, also pretty funny, the funky mashup with stravinsky's "vocals" is amazing 🤘🏼
Your videos are a work of art, you're getting more creative and advanced in your video production every time!
I know djent is the go to touchstone for dissonance in metal, but there really are a lot more people could choose from.
I was never teached Rite ofSpring like that , but you are right . Thanks ! Next : Harmony in Carl Orff 's Carmina Burana. Thanks ! ( BTW : One day , after maybe 30 years of listening to it , when I saw the score , I was quite impress by L'Apprenti Sorcier by Dukas . I told myself : " How come such a complex music harmonicaly is so easy to listen to for children ? " I used it quite a lot in my primary school music lessons .
4:40 that's stylish
I know this is small, but the way you're turned just slightly away from the camera at different points in the video like 4:04 creates more visual depth and interest and be worth *repeating* in future videos
So, what happens if I keep saying “Repetition does not legitimize. Repetition does not legitimize. Repetition does not legitimize. Repetition does not legitimize. ...”
you legitimize "Repetition does not legitimize" by repetition
@@pianojay5146 😂
Biden still wins the election?
@@forrcaho Can’t tell if you’re dissing Trump or Biden..,
@@macleadg No matter how much Trump supporters repeated their claims of a "stolen election", those claims never became legitimate.
Whoa, the footage is so precious! Thank you, David!
I didn't expect Stravinsky x Cory Wong to slap so hard
13:14 I was like "I've heard this before! I've heard this before!" Esbjorn Svensson included "Spring Khorovod" as a hidden track at the end of "Good Morning Susie Soho"... man, this makes me so happy
First thing that comes into my mind about Rite of Spring is scientifically outdated dinosaurs. Thanks a lot, Fantasia.
I did a presentation on folk music used in Rite of Spring in college. It’s everywhere. Basically every motive used is a fragment of a melody from an old anthology of Russian folk tunes. And what’s more every motive that he used was in the upper right hand corner of the right page as if he was just flipping through and jotting down fragments to use in the piece. However he denied using folk music. Great video.
Great video, however I disagree with calling the dominant seventh chord in the Funk example dissonant. Funk is very much based in the Blues, and in the Blues harmony doesn't quite follow the same principles as in classical music. The dominant seventh chord in this context is a point of rest (and therefore not dissonant) in my opinion. Adam Neely actually touched on that topic in his last video ("What key is Hey Joe in?"). Anyway, I really enjoy your videos and appreciate the work you put in making them! Greetings from Germany!
I dislike referring to a chord like C E G B♭ as a dominant seventh when it's not performing a dominant function; I think it's confusing. The major minor seventh chord, as this chord is also known , is "dissonant" in that it contains a "strongly dissonant" interval, the tritone (E B♭). However, as you say, in blues/funk/rock and roll, etc., the chord can and frequently does take tonic function, and as such is functionally consonant, making it by definition "not dissonant". Makes you think, eh! :-)
I think tonal tension and harmonic dissonance are slightly different things. Harmonic dissonance often creates tonal tension, but doesn't necessarily do that. For example atonal music is highly dissonant but has no tonal tension. And you can have a dissonant tonic chord. In jazz, it's common to use maj7#11 as a tonic, and it contains a lot of dissonant intervals.
You can also have a completely consonant chord that creates tonal tension. The major V chord has a lot of tension, but isn't dissonant at all.
I guess there's some nuance to this discussion, though, because often if you describe something as a dissonance, it also kind of implies a tendency to resolve to some kind of a consonance. And this resolution doesn't have to be V - I. It may also be Cdim7 to C major or E7b9 to E7. So, in this sense, dominant 7th chords aren't really used "as dissonances" in blues/funk. They are treated as completely stable sounds that don't need to be resolved, and don't even have any kind of a tendency to resolve - they are already "resolved". And in that sense, calling it a "dissonance" can be somewhat misleading. Still, it's more dissonant than major or minor triad, and does contain two dissonant intervals in it (minor 7th and tritone).
I was introduced to the Rite of Spring via the ballet which is absolutely amazing. Love heading about it from the music-theoretical approach.
I just used the Rite of Spring rhythm to pepper a riff into a 15/8 section for my prog rock band haha 😂
Ok
I totally agree with your assessment of Rite. The harmonies Stravinsky utilizes throughout are wonderfully rich and evocative of the incredibly dynamic century that was beginning to unfold. And his masterful orchestration brings out the inherent beauty and unbridled sensuality of his musical ideas.
So close! You’re a day off posting this on the spring equinox. At least in the northern hemisphere.
Friend just suggested this channel to me and damn I am here for all of this.
If David has Dorian, does Adam have Locrian? Who has Lydian?
I would have loved you as a music teacher back in Vienna. Mine was only lost, talking about the big confusion at the beginning of the 20th century. And this was in the 80th... ;))) Thx for sharing clear ideas with some fun and not taking everything so serious at it seems, specially in classic music.
The idea of repetition legitimizing long notes was on a “ Ten Commandments of performance”, given by my band teacher in high school.
“ if you make an odd note, don’t stand up and say, sorry everybody, I messed up. They won’t know unless you tell them. if it is bad, they know it stands out already. Don’t make it a big deal. If we are in a repeat section . , try and duplicate that mistake in a more pleasing way. The audience may even be fooled into thinking it’s legit.”
Great work. Anyway, the 2nd chord at 12:28 is not C# Major in the score, but C# minor. It's a huge mistake, and I find it very strange that no one has noticed. Greetings from Italy.
Dorian is, in my estimation, the best name you could have chosen for your avian friend. 😊
Certainly better than 'Locrian'!
@@TimothyReeves Ha!
Dorian always sounds to me like the majestic flight of a falcon over white bluffs
@@charlesdilks3267 It has always been one of my favorite modes.
So nice to see the comments by Adam, Ben and Aimee here in your channel Mr Bruce.