I haven't finished your video yet but a few points on canadian fuel. As we all know ethanol is hydroscopic and ubsorbs water. In canada this is a particular problem because we have cold winters and icing fuel is a problem, as such there is no ethanol in our fuel in the winter and to hit the 10% average that is mandated there is significant amounts of ethenol present during the summer, i personaly have tested fuels in the 35% range. Secondly Ryan lives in Vancouver which is located in a rain forest meaning it is always wet and humid meaning his 4 weeks may not be exagerated for his area. Keep up the good work.👍
This clears up one mystery for me. But this measure seems absurd (going from zero to 35). Here in the Netherlands I think it is about 8 to 10% if you pump euro 95. Most petrol stations have no ethanol in the petrol if you choose the more expensive euro 98.
@@Knakkerman- That is where it usually is here aswell in all grades of gas (Some stations do have ethanol free though). I am not exactly sure what the actual levels are though gas is marked as 10% average content here. As an automotive mechanic i have experience dealing with the issues that high ethanol content causes issues in vehicles. It is not uncommon to test fuel ethanol content during said diagnosis.
There aren't many people who write motorcycle content as well as Ryan F9. But you're one of them! Brilliant scripting again, and excellent delivery. So glad I found your channel.
Diogo thanks for yet another brilliant, well thought-out and informative video. Your sense of humor is sublime ;) always in place and spot on. Terrific to see your place so sunny, sorry for all the rain I brought last week :) Cheers man, it was a pleasure to meet you in person. I can attest, Diogo is just as positive, cheerful and delightful guy in person as he is in videos! Egīls
The pleasure was all mine Egils! Feel free to come back whenever you can (but leave in rain in Latvia!). You comment is so nice I am going to pin it, so everyone can read such nice things about me :D If you are reading this, check out the channel Egils creates footage for: Outduro (th-cam.com/channels/0kNybbtWTioNQ0r-nZn2VA.html)
Dude, your jokes and b-roll are brilliant! I like EFI, but I prefer the peace of mind of carbs. I drowned my bike two weeks ago and got it running within minutes. With EFI I'd constantly worry... even though it will most likely never fail. But one thing you have spot on is the fact that you'll constantly second-guess the bike with a carb. There is ALWAYS something that just doesn't feel right.
Absolutely agree to your arguments and how you present them in the video, couldn't be presented better. All technical and emotional aspects in some minutes together. Thanks for your work, enjoyable every time and I learn something always as well.
Thank you man! I spend a lot of time trying to condense the information as much as possible, and to put it in creative/intertaining ways :) Thank you very mucb for watching AND commenting !
Content is getting better... gud. I have a small carburated moped which I used as a daily driver when I was 17. The carb really drove me nuts sometimes bc I couldn't tell what's wrong with it. At the end it was contaminants clogging the main jet every now and then. Now with my injected honda I can finally have peace. It works like clockwork.
I am usually against modernization, but FI is a blessing for those who don't consider toiling with the bike part of the hobby :P I know my way around tools and know how to work on my bike, but I definitely prefer not to ^^
Althogh i absolutely love ryan and F9, I understand his views and reviews comes from a place with wealthier and spoilt for choice markets. This video serves as a very good supplement to ryan's, for us who live with practicality in mind every day. Also, thank you for clearing a doubt in my mind, for i intend to go full ted simon some day and transverse a desert, or a continent or something. Now i know carb is the way to go. Great video! Cheers!
Glad to know this video was especially useful to you, man! You have been a follwoer (and top commenter) on this channel since the begining, so thank you (again) for that! On a long and adventurous trip I don't think carbs will be a problem at all...they are a little less convenient, but in a way that doesn't really matter on a trip like that. Just be careful if your journey includes climbing to very high moutains, carbs will suffer a little bit more than FI due to low air density (or you just need to adjust them half-way through the climb) ;)
Thank you for the awesome comment! Its always a risk to give your opinion, especially when it doesn't coincide with the "top dogs"...but I trust my experience, and I know that in this world there are almost never "absolute truths". Like Jesus or someone alike used to say: "Only a Sith deals in absolutes" :P
Thanks for the video! This was exactly what I was looking for before I purchased a used bike, because I am not a mechanically inclined person and he messing with that kind of stuff
Superb video! Academy Award Winning acting, screen writing etc. Ethanol in gas in Canada is a PAIN. My personal experience is that if you do not drain your fuel completely from the carb before storing the machine for any length of time it gums it up something terrible. I run higher octane no ethanol fuel only in all of my bikes, boats, lawn mowers etc. 🇨🇦
So there is in fact a fuel problem... good to know! Is it hard to get, that no ethanol fuel? More expensive I guess? Oh, and thanks for the awesome compliments! :D
@@OFFroadOFFcourse In Canada it is limited to higher octane premium grade gas at only a few stations like Shell, Chevron and a couple of others. I think in the USA ethanol free gas is not available for the most part.
Now i feel like i have to do my own video answer. such a big and interesting topic. maybe F9 started a new big internet discussion about this topic. im becoming a motorcycle mechanic at the moment. ive got quite some experience with carbureted bikes and with fine tuning carburetors. in my opinion the carburetor is the superior system. if your bike has stock exhaust and air filter just dont touch the carb. it will work in 40°C and in -20°C just fine. if not its most likely a dirty air filter, clogged up fuel filter or old spark plug (considering your carb is clean). ive owned only carbureted bikes until a few months ago when i got a fuel injected 2006 GSR 600. ive ridden a lot of EFI bikes before and never liked the unpredictable throttle response but couldnt tell if it runs different in different weather or heights because i did only short test rides. with the GSR i tested that in the italian alps. tbh there is no real difference between a carb and EFI. you still lose power, you still feel that the engine runs slightly different. if you havent messed up your carb you wont have any problems with weather or height.... last winter i didnt even need to pull the choke on my DR650 for cold start at -10°C. i think once you understand carburetors and treat them right, they will provide a much better experience than EFI. carburetors were the first thing i started wrenching on and it took me a couple of years to learn them but i think even the average joe can do this. its just another skill to learn. if you dont want to do that or dont even have the feeling for how your engine is running youre truly better off with EFI. not trying to be mad, this is just my experience based opinion. if i talk to my mechanic friends about this they are against me on the side of EFI but also they never owned carbureted bikes or modified some to get the same experience as i have
Thank you VERY much for such a complete and relevant comment! You should definitely make a video with your perspective, it seems that it would be an awesome contribute to the "discussion" =) I don't actually feel that we disagree even... i also know that carbs can be awesome, but my point is that to most people (who don't even clean the air filter themselves) the experience will be quite different (especially considering that nowadays a carb bike will be 15-20years old and those carbs have been touched by 392 different people) =)
Thanks for a great video! I was considering a new bike with FI, but I am so happy with my old school carburetor. I use ethanol free fuel unless on a big road trip. I have had expensive and frustrating issues with my automobiles even though they give fault codes. I am so confident with my carburetor and bag of carefully chosen tools. My issue was whether to rebuild/modify/dump money into a carburetor bike or not. So instead of buying a FI bike, I can buy that much more goodies & parts for the old one. Thanks for helping me come to that conclusion. Life is full of so many choices! I am old and made the carburetor choice, but if my health goes way down I think FI and roadside assistance/dealership repairs may be better though!
Well I am from India and after watching one video on fi vs carb by Ryan... I too think he just exaggerated things in fav of carb.... In my experience also I agree with you... Great video
Thank you for the comment! I think perhaps the situation in Canada is a bit different from ours... but on the other hand, with such cold weather I think they (the Canadians) should love the FI :D Happy rides!
I used to have good old 600DR, kickstart, big carb and no electronics...even the voltage regulator burnt one day, and I only found out when one night I had no head light ! So for going around the Gobi desert yes carb is great, for town and daily use injection looks more appealing.
I would rather have a cycle that is easy to fix, diagnose and gets me around, nation wide, and home again. My 1979 Harley Superglide has done that for me for 43 years and 103,000 miles. I have been stranded in fool infected cars more than carbureted cars. (Although not very often). A fuel pump problem in a gas tank is an instant stranding source. For me, gravity never quits. I only had to work on my carb. once because of a plugged accelerator pump orifice. The bike still ran but started a little harder. A lot of things I see on TH-cam seem to imply that you have to "tune" the carb. for every occasion as though we all ride in a race every trip. I rode up Pikes Peak and did not have stop and re-tune the carb. It ran rich above 9,000 feet but reached the top at 14,000 feet no big deal. I put NON-resistor AC spark plugs in every 25,000 miles. Ressistor plugs don't last nearly as long in many vehicles. Any other problems are trivial when EASY maintenance more than pays you back for little runability issues. (Idle r.p.m.s one day to the next, pulling the choke on) TRIVIAL
I honestly prefer carburators, basically I rather go with the simplicity od a fix whenever there is an issue, on the other hand, in my country, Ecuador, gasoline is not very good in terms of quality, so, if there is an issue with it, it is simple to open the carb, clean it, install it and run again...but tghat is just my choice.
I completely agree with you. But one question remains open: do you do all the stunts yourself or do you have a stunt duble? Anyway, thank you for another informative and entertaining video.
When electronics took over airplanes safety went up, however, when a plane has a "bad" fault it may result in hull loss whereas an older plane might be a salvageable crash. I can think of a few places around the globe where people won't laugh at you for showing up with a carb.. I remember when a snowmobile manufacturer swapped to fuel injection and had a case where someone went spring snowmobiling at sea level in heavy snow. I don't know if it was mapping or injection parameters. It's quite possible a motorcycle manufacturer could be in the intended scope of use.
Very interesting example, the airplanes... however, I don't think we can actually use it in this case! My point being: Airplanes are taken much more seriously than production motorcycles. All parts are triple-checked, they have microns of tolerance, and most system will have a ton of redundancy in case they fail. Most planes will be able to land safely with only 1 engine, they have back-up power, and back-up everything. For instance; autopilot is awesome but even that has a back-up system (manual controls) Now motorcycles are a bit different... they usually don't fail catastrophically, but the % of brand new bikes that will have to go back to the dealer in the first year/month for some sort of unexpected reparation/recall is huge nowadays, and usually its not the gearbox or the piston... 99.9% is some faulty sensor, a weird warning light in the display, the ABS that is acting up, the injection that isn't allowing the bike to work properly, etc. Old bikes just worked for as long as there was oil inside the engine and fuel inside carb :P
The fuel injection works fine for the first few years but when the bike gets older the connectors will corrode and the problems will be unsolvable. Probably today nobody thinks of more than a 10 year life span of things.
nice vids i prefer carb because i always work, if not, at least some mechanic on 3rd world can emergency repair that lol the downside of carb is not efficient fuel consumption or power delivery since dont have many "scenario" we will make "bit worst" scenario meaning usually hurt fuel consumption lol my 1972 & 1981 vespa and 1993 honda still use carb and i still using them lol i not sure they will still produce ECU or TPS sensor present motorcyle in 2050? fuel injection for like the optimal of the engine
Are you Italian or Hispanic? I like your accent, I understood everything you said, like a mixture of British with well enunciated American accent. Hehe
I never had any problems with carburetor bikes, I have bike in Mexico that I refueled every 8 months or so it starts all the time when I come to visit every 2 moths or so,
in tropical areas like here in s.e asia, carbs and fi bikes makes not much difference in terms of performance. Fuel efficiency is the main reason why even our smallest 113cc commuter bikes and scooters became fuel injected. nothing more, really. As for maintenance? my bike is 75000kms and 8 years old but it's carb was only cleaned twice its lifetime and still functioning quite well. my secret? Clean air filters. Cleaned (for foam) or brand new every oil change of 2000 kms sometimes 1500.
A fuel injected bike doesn't care about the weather. Mmh, not sure about that. My RE BS4 himalayan thinks otherwise. Maybe it has to do with the strict emission requirements the bikes in Europe have to meet, causing a lean mixture of fuel and air that is injected. On the other hand my T7 FI-system seems more robust. I guess one FI system isn't the other.
Ah! But thats a problem with the BS4 model! A friend of mine fixed that by removing the lambda sensor and radding a resistor on the temperature gauge. I believe there are many tutorials about that online =) (thanks for commenting as usual man :D)
Watched that FortNine video, it’s full of bullshit don’t use that clown as a reference for anything. EFI just works better but the throttle response and noise of 4 FCR’s at 12000rpm is still unrivalled
Oh man, why are you so "anti-Fortnine"? I usually enjoy his videos very much... awesome production, good points, humor, some science thrown into the mix... I draw a lot of inspiration from him :o Anyway, thank you VERY much for watching and commenting!
@@OFFroadOFFcourse don’t😉 just because someone can present well with good production quality doesn’t make the content factual or correct and your banter is way better. When it comes to tech content, read more books rather than watching free content on TH-cam, High Performance Academy is mega but you have to pay for it so you know it right😁
@@rickybobby7660 Just because you pay for something doesn’t mean it’s right; there’s plenty of false information that is sold for a premium. Also, some people don’t take information in as well when reading. And calling people clowns isn’t going to make you look too good unless they’re a literal clown.
Carbs aren't more efficient than EFI, Carbs aren't more reliable than EFI, Carbs don't make more power than EFI so why have a carb? Because in the extremely rare occasion of the EFI failing, it can be very difficult to fix. So people like to fiddle with Carbs all the time saying they're better than EFI because you can fix them easily when the EFI guy doesn't even know how his EFI works never mind where it is, he doesn't need to know, because it is extremely unlikely to break. As you can guess, I'm an EFI kinda guy 👍 I'd just like to add the he could be she and guy could be gal. Cheers 🍻
I agree with you Nick!... mostly! I am also an FI guy. The problem with modern bikes is not the FI per se, but the complex ECU (that manages everything including the FI). Modern bikes became too complex, and the production costs/effort is getting lower by the day... so I really don't trust them that much. My XT660R never ever had any electronic problem, but A LOT of bikes nowadays (that are way more evolved and complex than the XT) spend the first few months after purchase going back to the dealer to deal with "annoying little problems", that 99.9% of the times are electronic related. I would probably trust my XT660R to cross a desert in a "life or death situation", but I wouldn't trust a brand new [Insert new bike here] with only a few thousand KM on the clock :o
I would trust my XT660R to go anywhere I was capable of riding it. With a few spare parts and some spare wire, and a bit of know how, I reckon they can be fixed anywhere. I know what you are saying about modern bikes though. If a computer is needed to help diagnose it, that is too complicated to be fixed on the trail.
I’m not saying you’re wrong, and you are entitled to your own view - but Lyndon Proskitt used FCR carbs because they are simpler whilst delivering smoother throttle response than EFI. Maybe it’s just horses for courses.
Hey Orlando, thanks for watching and commenting! If you pay close attention to my video I actually say that a well tunned carb can outperform a EFI in some cases... I havve no doubts about that. But the common joe doesn't have a well tuned carb, or a "smart carb" or even a recent carb... it has whatever carb and whatever tune it's 2nd hand 1995 motorcycle came with... and those usually act like they are possessed by several malign entities xD What I like about the EFI is not actually performance, but the overall lack of maintenance and fiddling.
Thanks Robert! And thank you for commenting! The channel is growing..not as fast as I would like, but definitely fast enough to keep me optimistic and focused on it ^^
And I finally disagree with OFFroad-OFFcourse!... a little. The ECU can actually make it much easier to troubleshoot issues if you are able to read the error codes. It did save be from a breakdown in the middle of nowhere when I had a faulty ignition coil. Maybe an idea for a future video?
A very good point and an awesome idea for a future video! I am not entirely convinced that being able to get the fault codes equalizes the risk between carb and FI (while crossing a desert for instance), but it certainly helps! Thank you VERY much for commenting!
Both, you and Ryan, simplified things way too much. A well tuned carb is fantastic, but so is a good EFI system. The problem is that both come from the factory tuned for emissions, not for best performance/feel. So both systems require adjustments to make them work well. There's no such thing as perfect fuel maps. They are all approximations. Even if you tune your own bike on a dyno, changes in atmospheric conditions will make the bike behave differently. Unless your EFI bike has an O2 sensor and is able to function in closed loop (the ECU performs fuel trims all the time), you're not much better with EFI than carbs.
I'm an efi fanboy. There's nothing to do but ride. I bought a carb bike and had a week long love/hate swear fest going on. And then it all came together and my carby bike runs like a champ. I felt like a winner having finally mastered the beast. Carbs have character, efi has dependability, at least that's the theory. 😆
I had a 2015 1200S Multistrada. Journalists said it was the greatest thing since sliced bread... but what do they know. The throttle maps allowed no power in 1st or 2nd until the bike was doing 15mph and then not much. Presumably Ducati were afraid owners would flip their bikes, but instead any old lady in a Prius could out-drag me from the lights. Interestingly, there was no throttle restriction for neutral. Throw in that the sensor which tells the ECU which gear you're in is Italian and therefore unreliable, so every once in a while, pulling away in 1st, wringing the throttle to try to get the thing to move, the sensor would decide that the bike was in fact in neutral.... and give full power leading to a wheelie into the car in front. For the same reason, sitting at a light in neutral, the sensor would suddenly decide it was in 1st and kill the engine... usually right before the lights changed. Yes you can remap the ECU, but that invalidates the warranty... no small matter with these bikes. So much for fuel injection. On the other hand I had to remove and clean the 4 carbs on my '99 R1 three times in a year when I was getting it back in shape to sell it, and that was no joke. I now have a 1290SAS. Turn off the traction control and it will wheelie in the first three gears. Want a more leisurely ride? Stick it in off-road with TC on and it is as gentle as a kitten. Lovely bike.
I only want to say that this is the funniest video I've seen so far in TH-cam. When the hammer 🔨 goes lose or the guy with the flowers I am still laughing, well done Diego, the topic also DID like it. If one day I accidentally meet you while riding in Portugal or somewhere else I hope we can have a drink 🍻 and laugh commenting this video, cheers
In my opinion, having a carburetor bike is like maintaining a marriage, you just leave her alone when she is on her PMS... 🤣😂 But to be honest, nothing sounds better than an old school carburetor bike! Keep up the good work Diogo! 😉
Mais uma vez... Top! 5* Na minha cabra velha, (XR400R-1996) o carburador de origem funciona a 100%, manutenção simples, ajustes simples... Mas há sempre um "senão", além de não ter botão mágico, quando há tralhos, mais que normal para quem faz OffRoad, para voltar a meter a cabra a bombar não é fácil. Neste momento aguardo a chegada de um "Mikuni 36mm" 🙏🤪💪
Yeah, thats when you need the 3rd world mechanic :P But yeah, with no skills and no tools maybe the rider would be better off with an FI bike (and probably should stay away from life or death situations in god-forsaken deserts :P )
From my own experience, modern electronic injected systems are fault-tolerant. They can keep working if some sensors of the system are not measuring proper values in a secure mode or fault mode, in a same way that a carburetor would do it. What is critical is fuel pump, injector and ignition, and of those three the pump is the weakest.
Agree completely.. I'm in an intense relationship with my DR350SE too. Not started it since I went Spain and Portugal in middle of September, had to take it for MOT test yesterday. Turned fuel and choke on and it started first time and ran fine....and past the test too 👍🏼
Thanks for watching, commenting and agreeing! :D But it seems that their fuel is very different from the one we use in Europe, so it seems that both me and Ryan are right (or wrong) :D
Welcome aboard Nick! Thank you for taking the time to comment! You should check my "Learn & Train" playlist, there are lots of interesting videos there ^^
I agree with all you said. I owned a Honda NTV650 for 15 years and never had a problem with the carburators. But now I own a intensive care patient, a well worn Yamaha XT225 and still going around with it's problematic (because it's old) Mikuni CV carburator. A new one from Yamaha costs around €500, an upgrade for a better Mikuni system costs €400, a chinese copy costs €50, so being a cheapskate I went for this. But now it's rejetting, bla bla bla... It's a love-hate thing.
Nice video! You mentioned falling the wrong way with a carburetor. I have had several Suzuki DR650s with stock carburetors and slightly modified jetting. I had good luck with them at altitudes from 500 ft. to almost 13,000 ft., from the farmlands of Illinois to high passes in the Colorado mountains, always running good to good enough : ) Anyway, once I fell over downhill, so the handlebars were lower than the wheels. After getting upright, I totally ran down the battery and couldn't get it started. Luckily I was high up on a rocky hilly road and was able to coast downhill, letting the clutch out in gear to turn it over. Still I barely got it started before the bottom of the hill. So in general I prefer fuel injection now. But in years of riding that was the only time I had a problem.
I haven't finished your video yet but a few points on canadian fuel. As we all know ethanol is hydroscopic and ubsorbs water. In canada this is a particular problem because we have cold winters and icing fuel is a problem, as such there is no ethanol in our fuel in the winter and to hit the 10% average that is mandated there is significant amounts of ethenol present during the summer, i personaly have tested fuels in the 35% range.
Secondly Ryan lives in Vancouver which is located in a rain forest meaning it is always wet and humid meaning his 4 weeks may not be exagerated for his area.
Keep up the good work.👍
This clears up one mystery for me. But this measure seems absurd (going from zero to 35). Here in the Netherlands I think it is about 8 to 10% if you pump euro 95. Most petrol stations have no ethanol in the petrol if you choose the more expensive euro 98.
@@Knakkerman- That is where it usually is here aswell in all grades of gas (Some stations do have ethanol free though). I am not exactly sure what the actual levels are though gas is marked as 10% average content here. As an automotive mechanic i have experience dealing with the issues that high ethanol content causes issues in vehicles. It is not uncommon to test fuel ethanol content during said diagnosis.
VERY useful comment man! I've pinned it to the top of the comments!
Thank you for bringing the hard data!
@@Knakkerman- it better not be 35%.. I live there too. Ethanol free is premium to my knowledge. 10% is supposed to be the max.
There aren't many people who write motorcycle content as well as Ryan F9. But you're one of them! Brilliant scripting again, and excellent delivery. So glad I found your channel.
I'm not nearly as good as him... but I draw a lot of inspiration from its work obviously... maybe some day :D
Welcome aboard!
Diogo thanks for yet another brilliant, well thought-out and informative video. Your sense of humor is sublime ;) always in place and spot on. Terrific to see your place so sunny, sorry for all the rain I brought last week :) Cheers man, it was a pleasure to meet you in person. I can attest, Diogo is just as positive, cheerful and delightful guy in person as he is in videos! Egīls
The pleasure was all mine Egils! Feel free to come back whenever you can (but leave in rain in Latvia!). You comment is so nice I am going to pin it, so everyone can read such nice things about me :D
If you are reading this, check out the channel Egils creates footage for: Outduro (th-cam.com/channels/0kNybbtWTioNQ0r-nZn2VA.html)
Dude, your jokes and b-roll are brilliant! I like EFI, but I prefer the peace of mind of carbs. I drowned my bike two weeks ago and got it running within minutes. With EFI I'd constantly worry... even though it will most likely never fail. But one thing you have spot on is the fact that you'll constantly second-guess the bike with a carb. There is ALWAYS something that just doesn't feel right.
All systems have pros and cons, at the end, it’s a matter of personal choice and what’s better fit for purpose. Great video Diego!!!
Thank you man! For watching and for commenting =)
cpr on the bike slayed me 😂
I'm not any kind of off road moto rider, but I subbed because that's how good this is
ahah, thank you man! This kind of feedback really makes this all worth it :D
Absolutely agree to your arguments and how you present them in the video, couldn't be presented better. All technical and emotional aspects in some minutes together. Thanks for your work, enjoyable every time and I learn something always as well.
Thank you man! I spend a lot of time trying to condense the information as much as possible, and to put it in creative/intertaining ways :)
Thank you very mucb for watching AND commenting !
Content is getting better... gud. I have a small carburated moped which I used as a daily driver when I was 17. The carb really drove me nuts sometimes bc I couldn't tell what's wrong with it. At the end it was contaminants clogging the main jet every now and then. Now with my injected honda I can finally have peace. It works like clockwork.
I am usually against modernization, but FI is a blessing for those who don't consider toiling with the bike part of the hobby :P
I know my way around tools and know how to work on my bike, but I definitely prefer not to ^^
Lol. Loved the 10 feet pole bit!
Althogh i absolutely love ryan and F9, I understand his views and reviews comes from a place with wealthier and spoilt for choice markets. This video serves as a very good supplement to ryan's, for us who live with practicality in mind every day. Also, thank you for clearing a doubt in my mind, for i intend to go full ted simon some day and transverse a desert, or a continent or something. Now i know carb is the way to go.
Great video! Cheers!
Glad to know this video was especially useful to you, man! You have been a follwoer (and top commenter) on this channel since the begining, so thank you (again) for that!
On a long and adventurous trip I don't think carbs will be a problem at all...they are a little less convenient, but in a way that doesn't really matter on a trip like that.
Just be careful if your journey includes climbing to very high moutains, carbs will suffer a little bit more than FI due to low air density (or you just need to adjust them half-way through the climb) ;)
Honest, fair, balanced, not afraid to give your opinion. Excellent report. Being lazy I would like to have FI but living remote I need carbureted.
Thank you for the awesome comment! Its always a risk to give your opinion, especially when it doesn't coincide with the "top dogs"...but I trust my experience, and I know that in this world there are almost never "absolute truths".
Like Jesus or someone alike used to say: "Only a Sith deals in absolutes" :P
totally rocked this one, keep up the good work .greetings from kenya
Thanks for the video! This was exactly what I was looking for before I purchased a used bike, because I am not a mechanically inclined person and he messing with that kind of stuff
Superb video! Academy Award Winning acting, screen writing etc. Ethanol in gas in Canada is a PAIN. My personal experience is that if you do not drain your fuel completely from the carb before storing the machine for any length of time it gums it up something terrible. I run higher octane no ethanol fuel only in all of my bikes, boats, lawn mowers etc. 🇨🇦
So there is in fact a fuel problem... good to know! Is it hard to get, that no ethanol fuel? More expensive I guess?
Oh, and thanks for the awesome compliments! :D
@@OFFroadOFFcourse In Canada it is limited to higher octane premium grade gas at only a few stations like Shell, Chevron and a couple of others. I think in the USA ethanol free gas is not available for the most part.
Now i feel like i have to do my own video answer. such a big and interesting topic. maybe F9 started a new big internet discussion about this topic.
im becoming a motorcycle mechanic at the moment. ive got quite some experience with carbureted bikes and with fine tuning carburetors. in my opinion the carburetor is the superior system.
if your bike has stock exhaust and air filter just dont touch the carb. it will work in 40°C and in -20°C just fine. if not its most likely a dirty air filter, clogged up fuel filter or old spark plug (considering your carb is clean).
ive owned only carbureted bikes until a few months ago when i got a fuel injected 2006 GSR 600. ive ridden a lot of EFI bikes before and never liked the unpredictable throttle response but couldnt tell if it runs different in different weather or heights because i did only short test rides. with the GSR i tested that in the italian alps. tbh there is no real difference between a carb and EFI. you still lose power, you still feel that the engine runs slightly different. if you havent messed up your carb you wont have any problems with weather or height.... last winter i didnt even need to pull the choke on my DR650 for cold start at -10°C.
i think once you understand carburetors and treat them right, they will provide a much better experience than EFI. carburetors were the first thing i started wrenching on and it took me a couple of years to learn them but i think even the average joe can do this. its just another skill to learn. if you dont want to do that or dont even have the feeling for how your engine is running youre truly better off with EFI.
not trying to be mad, this is just my experience based opinion. if i talk to my mechanic friends about this they are against me on the side of EFI but also they never owned carbureted bikes or modified some to get the same experience as i have
Thank you VERY much for such a complete and relevant comment! You should definitely make a video with your perspective, it seems that it would be an awesome contribute to the "discussion" =)
I don't actually feel that we disagree even... i also know that carbs can be awesome, but my point is that to most people (who don't even clean the air filter themselves) the experience will be quite different (especially considering that nowadays a carb bike will be 15-20years old and those carbs have been touched by 392 different people) =)
Thanks for a great video! I was considering a new bike with FI, but I am so happy with my old school carburetor. I use ethanol free fuel unless on a big road trip. I have had expensive and frustrating issues with my automobiles even though they give fault codes. I am so confident with my carburetor and bag of carefully chosen tools. My issue was whether to rebuild/modify/dump money into a carburetor bike or not. So instead of buying a FI bike, I can buy that much more goodies & parts for the old one. Thanks for helping me come to that conclusion. Life is full of so many choices! I am old and made the carburetor choice, but if my health goes way down I think FI and roadside assistance/dealership repairs may be better though!
Hey Glen! I am glad i played a part in this epiphany of yours :D
What bike are we talking about?
Thanks for watching and for the awesome comment!
Well I am from India and after watching one video on fi vs carb by Ryan... I too think he just exaggerated things in fav of carb.... In my experience also I agree with you... Great video
Thank you for the comment! I think perhaps the situation in Canada is a bit different from ours... but on the other hand, with such cold weather I think they (the Canadians) should love the FI :D
Happy rides!
I used to have good old 600DR, kickstart, big carb and no electronics...even the voltage regulator burnt one day, and I only found out when one night I had no head light ! So for going around the Gobi desert yes carb is great, for town and daily use injection looks more appealing.
I see you are a man of culture as well :DD
starting up that fuel injected Husqvarna FE501s is pretty nice when it’s 38° out in the morning here in the fall in New England 👍
I can only imagine! And what a great bike it is... thanks for commenting Peter! (as always)
Couldn't agree more! And dig your DR 👍
What a bike :D (DR350SE) Thanks for commenting ^^
I think I'm agree with you.
I would rather have a cycle that is easy to fix, diagnose and gets me around, nation wide, and home again. My 1979 Harley Superglide has done that for me for 43 years and 103,000 miles. I have been stranded in fool infected cars more than carbureted cars. (Although not very often). A fuel pump problem in a gas tank is an instant stranding source. For me, gravity never quits. I only had to work on my carb. once because of a plugged accelerator pump orifice. The bike still ran but started a little harder. A lot of things I see on TH-cam seem to imply that you have to "tune" the carb. for every occasion as though we all ride in a race every trip. I rode up Pikes Peak and did not have stop and re-tune the carb. It ran rich above 9,000 feet but reached the top at 14,000 feet no big deal. I put NON-resistor AC spark plugs in every 25,000 miles. Ressistor plugs don't last nearly as long in many vehicles. Any other problems are trivial when EASY maintenance more than pays you back for little runability issues. (Idle r.p.m.s one day to the next, pulling the choke on) TRIVIAL
I honestly prefer carburators, basically I rather go with the simplicity od a fix whenever there is an issue, on the other hand, in my country, Ecuador, gasoline is not very good in terms of quality, so, if there is an issue with it, it is simple to open the carb, clean it, install it and run again...but tghat is just my choice.
I completely agree with you. But one question remains open: do you do all the stunts yourself or do you have a stunt duble? Anyway, thank you for another informative and entertaining video.
I don't even have a camera-man :P
Thanks for commenting all the videos man, you're awesome!
When electronics took over airplanes safety went up, however, when a plane has a "bad" fault it may result in hull loss whereas an older plane might be a salvageable crash.
I can think of a few places around the globe where people won't laugh at you for showing up with a carb..
I remember when a snowmobile manufacturer swapped to fuel injection and had a case where someone went spring snowmobiling at sea level in heavy snow. I don't know if it was mapping or injection parameters. It's quite possible a motorcycle manufacturer could be in the intended scope of use.
Very interesting example, the airplanes... however, I don't think we can actually use it in this case!
My point being: Airplanes are taken much more seriously than production motorcycles. All parts are triple-checked, they have microns of tolerance, and most system will have a ton of redundancy in case they fail. Most planes will be able to land safely with only 1 engine, they have back-up power, and back-up everything. For instance; autopilot is awesome but even that has a back-up system (manual controls)
Now motorcycles are a bit different... they usually don't fail catastrophically, but the % of brand new bikes that will have to go back to the dealer in the first year/month for some sort of unexpected reparation/recall is huge nowadays, and usually its not the gearbox or the piston... 99.9% is some faulty sensor, a weird warning light in the display, the ABS that is acting up, the injection that isn't allowing the bike to work properly, etc.
Old bikes just worked for as long as there was oil inside the engine and fuel inside carb :P
@@OFFroadOFFcourse okay, maybe not so catastrophic waiting in Siberia for a new fuel pump.
afaik fuel in europe has a lot less ethanol than nord america, which makes a big difference.
It would make all the sense in the world... thank you for clarifying that Lukas (and for commenting!)
Is possible to put in a kawasaki klr 600 an elettronic kit? Or is a stupid idea?
I know it can be done on the dr650, someone created a kit for it, but its.not at all cheap!
I wouldn’t go back to a bike with a carb. Much prefer fuel injection for reliability.
I'm with you... usually against modernization, but FI is definitely a treat :D
The fuel injection works fine for the first few years but when the bike gets older the connectors will corrode and the problems will be unsolvable. Probably today nobody thinks of more than a 10 year life span of things.
nice vids
i prefer carb because i always work, if not, at least some mechanic on 3rd world can emergency repair that lol
the downside of carb is not efficient fuel consumption or power delivery
since dont have many "scenario" we will make "bit worst" scenario meaning usually hurt fuel consumption lol
my 1972 & 1981 vespa and 1993 honda still use carb and i still using them lol
i not sure they will still produce ECU or TPS sensor present motorcyle in 2050?
fuel injection for like the optimal of the engine
Are you Italian or Hispanic? I like your accent, I understood everything you said, like a mixture of British with well enunciated American accent. Hehe
I never had any problems with carburetor bikes, I have bike in Mexico that I refueled every 8 months or so it starts all the time when I come to visit every 2 moths or so,
As it seems the Canadian fuel is much different from the one in EU (and perhaps mexico)... maybe thats why =)
in tropical areas like here in s.e asia, carbs and fi bikes makes not much difference in terms of performance. Fuel efficiency is the main reason why even our smallest 113cc commuter bikes and scooters became fuel injected. nothing more, really.
As for maintenance? my bike is 75000kms and 8 years old but it's carb was only cleaned twice its lifetime and still functioning quite well. my secret? Clean air filters.
Cleaned (for foam) or brand new every oil change of 2000 kms sometimes 1500.
A fuel injected bike doesn't care about the weather.
Mmh, not sure about that. My RE BS4 himalayan thinks otherwise.
Maybe it has to do with the strict emission requirements the bikes in Europe have to meet,
causing a lean mixture of fuel and air that is injected.
On the other hand my T7 FI-system seems more robust.
I guess one FI system isn't the other.
Ah! But thats a problem with the BS4 model! A friend of mine fixed that by removing the lambda sensor and radding a resistor on the temperature gauge. I believe there are many tutorials about that online =) (thanks for commenting as usual man :D)
O combustível deles não é provavelmente pior: é pior😉
Ja ouvi dizer que sim :D
obrigado por comentares!
Ora essa. Obrigado tu pelos vídeos 😉
Watched that FortNine video, it’s full of bullshit don’t use that clown as a reference for anything.
EFI just works better but the throttle response and noise of 4 FCR’s at 12000rpm is still unrivalled
Oh man, why are you so "anti-Fortnine"? I usually enjoy his videos very much... awesome production, good points, humor, some science thrown into the mix...
I draw a lot of inspiration from him :o
Anyway, thank you VERY much for watching and commenting!
@@OFFroadOFFcourse don’t😉 just because someone can present well with good production quality doesn’t make the content factual or correct and your banter is way better.
When it comes to tech content, read more books rather than watching free content on TH-cam, High Performance Academy is mega but you have to pay for it so you know it right😁
@@rickybobby7660 Just because you pay for something doesn’t mean it’s right; there’s plenty of false information that is sold for a premium. Also, some people don’t take information in as well when reading. And calling people clowns isn’t going to make you look too good unless they’re a literal clown.
Agree with what you say, and love the sense of humour you add to your videos, excellent 😁🤘
Carbs aren't more efficient than EFI, Carbs aren't more reliable than EFI, Carbs don't make more power than EFI so why have a carb? Because in the extremely rare occasion of the EFI failing, it can be very difficult to fix. So people like to fiddle with Carbs all the time saying they're better than EFI because you can fix them easily when the EFI guy doesn't even know how his EFI works never mind where it is, he doesn't need to know, because it is extremely unlikely to break. As you can guess, I'm an EFI kinda guy 👍
I'd just like to add the he could be she and guy could be gal.
Cheers 🍻
I agree with you Nick!... mostly! I am also an FI guy.
The problem with modern bikes is not the FI per se, but the complex ECU (that manages everything including the FI). Modern bikes became too complex, and the production costs/effort is getting lower by the day... so I really don't trust them that much.
My XT660R never ever had any electronic problem, but A LOT of bikes nowadays (that are way more evolved and complex than the XT) spend the first few months after purchase going back to the dealer to deal with "annoying little problems", that 99.9% of the times are electronic related.
I would probably trust my XT660R to cross a desert in a "life or death situation", but I wouldn't trust a brand new [Insert new bike here] with only a few thousand KM on the clock :o
I would trust my XT660R to go anywhere I was capable of riding it. With a few spare parts and some spare wire, and a bit of know how, I reckon they can be fixed anywhere.
I know what you are saying about modern bikes though. If a computer is needed to help diagnose it, that is too complicated to be fixed on the trail.
I’m not saying you’re wrong, and you are entitled to your own view - but Lyndon Proskitt used FCR carbs because they are simpler whilst delivering smoother throttle response than EFI.
Maybe it’s just horses for courses.
Hey Orlando, thanks for watching and commenting! If you pay close attention to my video I actually say that a well tunned carb can outperform a EFI in some cases... I havve no doubts about that. But the common joe doesn't have a well tuned carb, or a "smart carb" or even a recent carb... it has whatever carb and whatever tune it's 2nd hand 1995 motorcycle came with... and those usually act like they are possessed by several malign entities xD
What I like about the EFI is not actually performance, but the overall lack of maintenance and fiddling.
You deserve more subs! Regards from Sweden
Thanks Robert! And thank you for commenting!
The channel is growing..not as fast as I would like, but definitely fast enough to keep me optimistic and focused on it ^^
O melhor será então, ter uma de cada … 🤗🤓
And I finally disagree with OFFroad-OFFcourse!... a little. The ECU can actually make it much easier to troubleshoot issues if you are able to read the error codes. It did save be from a breakdown in the middle of nowhere when I had a faulty ignition coil. Maybe an idea for a future video?
A very good point and an awesome idea for a future video!
I am not entirely convinced that being able to get the fault codes equalizes the risk between carb and FI (while crossing a desert for instance), but it certainly helps!
Thank you VERY much for commenting!
That's why we have lectron...
Now there is a topic for another video! Have you ever tried a "lectronic" bike? :D
Even better, Smartcarb
Both, you and Ryan, simplified things way too much. A well tuned carb is fantastic, but so is a good EFI system. The problem is that both come from the factory tuned for emissions, not for best performance/feel. So both systems require adjustments to make them work well. There's no such thing as perfect fuel maps. They are all approximations. Even if you tune your own bike on a dyno, changes in atmospheric conditions will make the bike behave differently. Unless your EFI bike has an O2 sensor and is able to function in closed loop (the ECU performs fuel trims all the time), you're not much better with EFI than carbs.
🤘🏻
I'm an efi fanboy. There's nothing to do but ride. I bought a carb bike and had a week long love/hate swear fest going on. And then it all came together and my carby bike runs like a champ. I felt like a winner having finally mastered the beast. Carbs have character, efi has dependability, at least that's the theory. 😆
Ho shit... The Hammer method... i cant stop laughting
😂😂😂😂
And i do think they use diferent fuel octanes/ethanol
Yeah thats it...too much Ethanol it seems...in Brazil is the same thing if I am not mistaken.
Yes, the hammer method...is there any other? :D
My inline 4, 250cc, 4 carby, super sport would foul and gum up at least the pilot jet within a week if not running, here in Australia
I had a 2015 1200S Multistrada. Journalists said it was the greatest thing since sliced bread... but what do they know. The throttle maps allowed no power in 1st or 2nd until the bike was doing 15mph and then not much. Presumably Ducati were afraid owners would flip their bikes, but instead any old lady in a Prius could out-drag me from the lights. Interestingly, there was no throttle restriction for neutral. Throw in that the sensor which tells the ECU which gear you're in is Italian and therefore unreliable, so every once in a while, pulling away in 1st, wringing the throttle to try to get the thing to move, the sensor would decide that the bike was in fact in neutral.... and give full power leading to a wheelie into the car in front. For the same reason, sitting at a light in neutral, the sensor would suddenly decide it was in 1st and kill the engine... usually right before the lights changed. Yes you can remap the ECU, but that invalidates the warranty... no small matter with these bikes. So much for fuel injection.
On the other hand I had to remove and clean the 4 carbs on my '99 R1 three times in a year when I was getting it back in shape to sell it, and that was no joke.
I now have a 1290SAS. Turn off the traction control and it will wheelie in the first three gears. Want a more leisurely ride? Stick it in off-road with TC on and it is as gentle as a kitten. Lovely bike.
Oh man, that Multistrada report is daunting! I had no idea... what a crappy idea!
I only want to say that this is the funniest video I've seen so far in TH-cam. When the hammer 🔨 goes lose or the guy with the flowers I am still laughing, well done Diego, the topic also DID like it. If one day I accidentally meet you while riding in Portugal or somewhere else I hope we can have a drink 🍻 and laugh commenting this video, cheers
heheh, thank you man! Actually the hammer getting lose was an accident! I was lucky not to hit the neighbours car xD
In my opinion, having a carburetor bike is like maintaining a marriage, you just leave her alone when she is on her PMS... 🤣😂
But to be honest, nothing sounds better than an old school carburetor bike!
Keep up the good work Diogo! 😉
thank you for watching and commenting man :D
Mais uma vez... Top! 5*
Na minha cabra velha, (XR400R-1996) o carburador de origem funciona a 100%, manutenção simples, ajustes simples... Mas há sempre um "senão", além de não ter botão mágico, quando há tralhos, mais que normal para quem faz OffRoad, para voltar a meter a cabra a bombar não é fácil. Neste momento aguardo a chegada de um "Mikuni 36mm" 🙏🤪💪
Ai a falta do botão magico... ja nao consigo :(
Rebento sempre ca ciática quando tenho de pegar uma (e nem sequer tou a gozar!)
Agree 100%!!!
Many people that defend carbureted bikes, wouldn’t be able to fix them if they go wrong, anyway…
Congrats for another great video!
💪😎💪
Yeah, thats when you need the 3rd world mechanic :P
But yeah, with no skills and no tools maybe the rider would be better off with an FI bike (and probably should stay away from life or death situations in god-forsaken deserts :P )
@@OFFroadOFFcourse precisely!
From my own experience, modern electronic injected systems are fault-tolerant. They can keep working if some sensors of the system are not measuring proper values in a secure mode or fault mode, in a same way that a carburetor would do it. What is critical is fuel pump, injector and ignition, and of those three the pump is the weakest.
I was thinking the same thing.
Agree completely..
I'm in an intense relationship with my DR350SE too. Not started it since I went Spain and Portugal in middle of September, had to take it for MOT test yesterday. Turned fuel and choke on and it started first time and ran fine....and past the test too 👍🏼
DR350SE ! I have 3 of those! Fantastic bikes... love the 6th gear :D
It's not often I disagree with RyanF9, but on this topic I'm inclined to agree with you more
Thanks for watching, commenting and agreeing! :D
But it seems that their fuel is very different from the one we use in Europe, so it seems that both me and Ryan are right (or wrong) :D
Stumbled across your channel recently. Love the style and humour. Also very informative keep up the good work
Welcome aboard Nick! Thank you for taking the time to comment! You should check my "Learn & Train" playlist, there are lots of interesting videos there ^^
I agree with all you said. I owned a Honda NTV650 for 15 years and never had a problem with the carburators. But now I own a intensive care patient, a well worn Yamaha XT225 and still going around with it's problematic (because it's old) Mikuni CV carburator. A new one from Yamaha costs around €500, an upgrade for a better Mikuni system costs €400, a chinese copy costs €50, so being a cheapskate I went for this. But now it's rejetting, bla bla bla... It's a love-hate thing.
Nice video! You mentioned falling the wrong way with a carburetor. I have had several Suzuki DR650s with stock carburetors and slightly modified jetting. I had good luck with them at altitudes from 500 ft. to almost 13,000 ft., from the farmlands of Illinois to high passes in the Colorado mountains, always running good to good enough : ) Anyway, once I fell over downhill, so the handlebars were lower than the wheels. After getting upright, I totally ran down the battery and couldn't get it started. Luckily I was high up on a rocky hilly road and was able to coast downhill, letting the clutch out in gear to turn it over. Still I barely got it started before the bottom of the hill. So in general I prefer fuel injection now. But in years of riding that was the only time I had a problem.
Hope to never see a carburetor again ))
Good riddance xD
thanks for commenting!
I HAVE ARRIVED
Please elaborate :P
Never