DEAD High Quality Metabo DRILL BATTERY - Can it be REPAIRED?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 30 ก.ย. 2024
- This is my own personal cordless drill. It is high quality and made in Germany, but unfortunately one of the battery packs have failed.
Are they fixable? Why has it failed? Let's find out
If you would like to support these videos, please click here / mymatevince
Remember that this is just for entertainment and I am not an expert in these repairs. The processes in the video may not be the best way, the correct way or the safest way to fix these things. I do love fault finding and trying to fix broken things, so I hope that comes across in this 'Trying to FIX' series. Many thanks, Vince.
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7 years running a battery rebuild company 10k batteries rebuilt. Mixing cell capacities technically works but you risk the longevity of the cells they will under/over charge eventually. I would always replace all cells at the same time. Some chargers have very good balancing Bosch for example very easy to rebuild the batteries. You can buy rolls of nickel strip it's thinner and spot welds easier. You'll not spot weld the original metal without a commercial battery welder. Also take your ring and watch off there's a risk of a dangerous arc burning you!
@chris_hertford just out of interest what do you think are the power tool brands that use the best quality cells and components with their battery packs?
@billconiston8091 I've opened up several different mainstream brands of batteries for power equipment. Pretty much all of them have the same cells. Mostly unbranded Samsung cells in all of them. Most of the components for all these tools come out of the same factories with slight variation specs from the designer for these companies and are assembled in the country of sale. If that. What it comes down to is each individual companies quality control. The more expensive brands have higher quality controll standards. So generally you get a better product. But there is always lemons.
@@billconiston8091 they pretty much all use Samsung and LG cells. Personally I like Bosch tools the batteries are very simple easy to rebuild and not much circuitry so little to go wrong. If you're doing a rebuild the thing you need to look for are high discharge capacity cells. This is on the label with a C value e.g. 5C, 10C. C is a multiple of the capacity e.g. 3.0Ah 5C cell would have 3.0 x 5 = 15A max discharge rate.
@@chris_hertford 15Ah then ?
@@SlyerFox666no that's the difference in the figures A/h is amps per hour. So 3.0Ah battery will drive a 1amp tool for 3 hours (excluding real world inefficientcies) The C rating on the cell is the max discharge current, most tools with motors will draw a spike current initially so need that higher rating.
As someone who rebuilds medical batteries, I can tell you a few things. Putting in mismatched cells that have a difference and internal resistance or capacity can cause lower capacity cells to go into a reverse charge during normal discharge. If the protection board is correctly monitoring all of the cells, it might prevent this from happening.
Getting those thicker tabs connected, I would suggest spot-welding down thinner nickel strips with an extended tab coming off the end to solder onto the thicker tabs by the manufacturer.
The thing you have gotten mixed up with, the BMS system in those older drills are unlikely to do Cell Balanced Charging, but will simply only monitor the change and when any single cell gets to a cutoff voltage it will cancel charging. It takes a lot more electronics on a BMS board to do balanced charging even in this day.
The other issue you will likely run into - as it has been touched on in comments here, and you kind of touched on it yourself.
As you discharge the battery pack, the lower capacity (and worn out cells will make this worse) will drain to a lower voltage than the other batteries. the pack Should technically signal that it is flat and stop the drill. However once you try to charge the batteries, the inconsistencies in charge state and battery worn level will result in the charge cycle taking a different length of time. As it is likely the green cells will show as fully charged quicker, this will then mean you have a "full" battery that actually consists of 2 well charged batteries and 8 partially charged ones. As you then use this again, the situation gets worse and worse.
It may then be possible that you also get into the possibility of over discharging once pair of batteries whilst using the drill, which will then take the battery again requiring you to once again repair it. The general rule of thumb is to try to keep batteries with the same wear pattern together, as well as the same charge cycle and capacity. which would lean towards replacing all batteries in the drill.
On the standpoint of changing them all to higher capacity batteries - the pack, and charger will technically be able to handle this, but the charge time will increase. As for the drill itself, if it is a brushed motor, it will work without any issue - a brushless motor may however be able to use more current from the battery pack, so long as the pack is capable of delivering it. Technically this shouldn't cause anything to break, unless it ends up over-torquing the motor or linkages. However, i suspect at some point the original manufacturer would have come out with an increase capacity pack anyway and the risks i have mentioned wont be valid.
Hi Vince, when adding new cells to a BMS, you should have the cell voltages matched to within 0.1V. Otherwise you are placing a strain on the cells as they try to balance, and high current will flow between differently matched cells. As to which cells you can use, its not good to mix various technologies and ratings. In the video you mentioned using new cells of 5.6Ah. This is possible, as the voltages will remain the same, but the increased Ah rating means the battery will last longer during use. 😊
Vince as you well know. The people with the least knowledge, give the most advice.
Way too many "TH-cam Certified Experts" on here. The advice that some people give is downright scary.
this is NOT good, Vince, not good at all, I put a thumbs down, it would be better to delete this video.
you can NOT attempt to recharge a Li-ion battery that has fallen permanently to about zero volt, danger of fire.
you can NOT put any li-ion battery for just any use, it must be able to supply sufficient current continuously without heating up, and a powerful screwdriver motor takes a lot of amps, danger of fire.
it's STUPID to unsolder the batteries without testing their capacity, it has reduced with time and use, there shouldn't be much left. which isn't really a big deal, but their internal resistance has spiked and is probably no longer acceptable.
it is almost certain that there is no balancing in this battery, so the voltage at no load and in charge depends ONLY on the relative internal resistance of each pair of batteries, very different depending on whether they are young or old.
the self-discharge rate (the loss when the battery is stored) is also very different.
the thickness of the nickel connecting conductors contributes to the current available for the motor, if it is too thin the current heats the conductor.
the RIGHT way to repair the battery pack is to remove the 10 used batteries and replace them with 10 good batteries allowing a significant flow (in Amps) without worrying too much about the capacity (in Ah).
of course it works with only 2 new batteries but their capacity is limited by the weakest element of the chain, it's wasted money.
I suggest you educate yourself on the batteries, buy a capacity tester and 10 or 20 identical new batteries to replace all those in one or both blocks.
More than the charging, I would worry about discharging.. the greens might encourage the Reds to over discharge.. not sure if by a lot, but might be a good idea bit to run the drill to 0
Thank you 😎
why not just put a single cell in there? replace your two i.iah batteries in parallel (2.2ah) with a single 2.5ah? putting 2 in seems a waste to me.
there is no balancer / BMS in the Battery,so you can´t mixed with different Cells.
Another option: Get rid of all the old batteries and only take five of your green ones in series - > roughly the same capacity.
Yes sir! 👍
My thoughts from the start
Or, just put in five of the old batteries and save the green ones for other projects.
YES thats what I thought job done
Bad and possibly dangerous suggestion! Without knowing the maximum current draw from the drill and maximum discharge rate the batteries can handle.
Charger is 5A, probably way too high for a single cell. Two cells in parallel gives a more acceptable 2.5A charge.
You overestimate the BMS it purely works on voltage.
Just wanted to thank you for sharing your interest and experience in fixing things with faults. I have the same hobby and while I’ve been sharing my iPhone repairs to TH-cam, I’m now doing the same with random broken items I find which I challenge myself to fix. Your videos are so encouraging in that manner and it’s a reason why I enjoy your content. Thanks Vince
I reckon anyone with a bit of know-how and an adventurous spirit can totally make something useful out of a spot welder like yours. There's probably no need to spend the big dollar! Let me explain...
I bought one of those crappy aliexpress £15 spot welders about 2 years ago before I knew anything about electronics. It was absolutely rubbish. Even though I was using decent high-current LiPo packs, on its max setting the welds were still barely visible. So I kept upping the battery voltage until the damn thing fried.
A few months later, I dug it out of the parts drawer and analysed the circuitry and made a mental model of the schematic. Firstly, I realised it had no gate driver for the 5x FDBL9403 mosfets (awesome chips btw) which meant that they experienced excessive amounts of punishment every time they dumped current. Two of them were fried, so I ordered some replacements.
The next thing I noticed was the crappy 8-bit microcontroller was obviously also fried. So I deleted the IC, and soldered on some wires for ground, VCC, mosfet gates, and continuity detection (which is how it knows you've got the electrodes pressed to a conductive surface). The plan was to write a bit of Arduino code to do the job right.
So I made a simple breadboard circuit:
- a mosfet gate driver chip (MCP1407 in this case, but there are MANY chips that do the same job)
- a pair of optocouplers (PC817) from the parts bin
- literally 2 resistors (for current limiting the PC817 inputs), and a 1uF capacitor to feed the gate driver
One optocoupler for passing the continuity detection signal to the microcontroller, and the other for triggering the gate driver. I wanted total galvanic isolation because when the spot welder fried itself, it literally exploded the copper ground plane right off the circuit board. You don't need them kinda transient spikes anywhere near something that's gonna be plugged into your laptop USB port.
With that I was now able to have full control over everything with just a few pages of code. I can customise precisely the shape and duration of the current pulse -- nickel strips thick and thin, it doesn't matter, I can set the pulse duration to anything from a flea's fart, right up to a busy night for the North London fire brigade.
I also control exactly how it's triggered, for maximum comfort in the timing between the probes making contact, and the pulse. And I got rid of the annoying beeps: instead there's a nice 8x8 LED matrix with appropriate animations and flashing for precise feedback. I just need to get around to learning how to use Altium or something so I can get a custom PCB made instead of balancing a mini-breadboard on top of a battery pack.
Seriously, it was such an easy project. Although I am a veteran software engineer, whereas I think most people find the coding to be the trickiest part of such projects. No worries, anyone can have my code -- or I'll write some for whoever does something similar to the above but needs a bit of code to make it work.
(For the sake of clarity I should add that increasing pulse duration is absolutely no substitute for a weak power source. By my careful measurements with a 1.5 mΩ shunt resistor and an oscilloscope, a healthy pulse is easily 1000-1500 Amps. When using a 3S pack (11V - 12.6V) that translates to a sub-10mΩ internal resistance.)
What your missing is the C rating on the old batteries, which tell you how many amps they can push out. C rating of 10 means they can run trough the battery at 1/10 of an hour. 1C takes an hour. To get the max amps multiply the C rating with the capacity. So 3000mah battery at 10C can run at 30A for 6 minutes. Serial extends the time, Parallel extends the amps. When intoducing new cells to a pack you can leave them to self balance between themselves if it's not too big of a difference.. otherwise you risk pushing short circut amps from a full cell to an empty one, which is what the spot welder does basically. With charging you might have issues as you dont have any BMS... otherwise there would be wires on single cells. I wouldn't let them charge fully and leave them for a bit to self balance before using it. And lastly most chargers without a BMS simply mesure resistance, not voltage.. when it starts spiking, it's full. Hope that helps somewhat.
If your batteries have a different capacity and they are charged by a dumb BMS with a single voltage which charges all batteries in series, the lower capacity cells will charge more quickly, which is not good, because the charging cycle stops while the high capacity battery is still at a lower voltage. It all depends on how good your BMS is. A BMS that charges individual batteries would cause less problems. You probably have a dumb BMS.... Also, not all lithium batteries are equal. batteries in drills used a chemistry that allows high peak currents.
I don't think your spot welder is the only problem here. Since you are still using the existing nickel plated strips, you will never have a flat surface in contacting with the battery, after you dissembled the battery pack, in order to meet the spot welding surface requirement, plus, your nickel plated strip is thicker and no matter how hard you press onto the battery, it just won't make a good contact to form a reliable spot weld. if you use a brand new set of batteries with new nickel strips, then the spot welding will be good, otherwise, I would just try a soldering method. I have powerful spot welder, but it just doesn't work for me when I am repairing a battery pack by replacing dead battery (with the exact spec).
You used the WRONG cells Vince. Very dangerous what you did. The amps are NOT the only factor. Aka You cannot simply change these batteries due their internal resistance. Also their maximum discharge current is very different. Look up the specs. Do not and I mean, doNOT uses laptop style batteries you showed. These are not suited for drills as these can lock up and also the startup current can be 5x the nominal current, laptop types are cheaper and can overheat easily. Look at the C rating please.
Search for '5000W Handheld Spot Welder, Docreate Portable Spot Welder Machine DIY Kit for 18650 Battery Pack Welding Tools, Adjustable Battery Welding Soldering Machine with Nickel Strip and Spot Welding Pen'... I've been building e-bike batteries for years and this spot welder is the only one i'll use, it has it's own internal power supply and a foot pedal, the leads are 0 awg, can spot weld 1/16th of an inch thick nickle if needed.
Metabo are still going, UK office in Southampton. Returned a drill driver to them for repair last week. They replaced the motor for under £40 inc VAT and postage, sent on a Saturday, returned the following Friday. Superb products and service, highly recommended.
So that's the reason Fogstar were sold out /s
I’m sure you had one Vince, but would be good to show the viewers you have a BigClive-style Explosion Containment Pie Dish on hand. I keep an old saucepan and lid ready so I can get it out the back door if necessary. Stay safe. PS - if you look at the £ of a 5ah battery (and given the work you are doing to get into the pack) it makes sense to replace the old cells ..
Maybe use the displaced but still working cells in a power bank or other project.
Not your style Vince, but I've seem around some projects of spot welders made of old microwave transformers. Very low voltage, lots of amperage.
Dead. High. Quality. Metabo. Drill. Battery. Can. It. Be. Repaired?
maybe you could have used only one green 18650 then is would be close to the 2 parallel red once.
Metabo is a massive brand, of course they still exist lol
The only safe way to mix different capacity batteries is when they are in parallel.
I think it will be OK - obviously better spot welding lol! But I think you are right about when it's drained, the green cells will have a higher voltage than the red, and then when charging it will reach the turn off point sooner perhaps. But I think over lots of cycles it may kinda balance out?!?
Thanks Chris 👍
Sorry to say it but thats the wrong way always use the exact same battery and with the same age and wear
Battery new is 1.1Ah but over time (this one is very old) they will lose some capacity i guess they will be around 0.7Ah older models dont have good balancing boards so some batteries have to work harder and will fail sooner
So these battery's are only good for backup spare parts for the other battery pack and always use good brands with high load like minimum of 20c and higher is better
If you use 10A discharge battery you cant use the fast charger they will overheat also in use they will overheat when it draws full capacity so always use new battery from same batch do not take risks your safety is much more important than some old battery
Nice Job Vince 👍 I bought 10 faulty Milwaukee batteries over a year ago, repaired 8 of them and they all still seem fine. Was thinking if you were worried about the cells capacity you could have removed all of the cells, and just fitted 5 x 2.5ah cells which would have given slightly more capacity than the original pack with half the weight 🙂 Keep up the great work 👌👏
Cheers Mick👌
That spot welder is good, Vince.
Just use a car battery. I use the same for thicker plates, too.
I don't mind working with live voltage and power supplies but there's something about batteries going bang that fills me with dread. It's a shame the manufacturers don't provide adapters so you can use newer batteries and chargers on old drills. I have a Bosch SDS and it's brilliant.
Don't know about all the brands, but Dewalt sells a battery adapter for the older tools to use the newer batteries, (about $25-$30 for the adapter IIRC).
I've got a couple of the old style tools and only use the new batteries with them nowadays. You just have to make sure nobody tries to charge the new batteries in the old charger with the adapter. No other potential issues in quite a few years with the adapters.
@@genghisbunny I have an old Makita SDS with charger and a faulty battery. I think I'll open it and see if I can identify the cells to see how much it would be to replace them. The price of a spot welder would have to be factored in too.
Thanks again for the Super Thanks Philip👌👍
@@Mymatevince You're welcome.
Adapters are available to buy for some combinations - if you got a 3D printer, many cominations are available in thingiverse to build them yourself. If you the (very moderate) needed skills, you can also convert tools all to one battery standard - adapters for this are again available to buy for some battries, and for most on thingiverse.
I have a Sunkko 797DH spot welder. It really works quite well.
I have that same spot welder but I hooked it up to a lead acid car battery. It is able to penetrate deeper through the thicker nickel. Also pressing down hard on the probes helps too
If it's 2.2Ah and there's 2 in series that means the stock cells are 1100mah. Which is pretty horrendous but it is very old. What you should do, for safety and quality is swap out all 10 cells with 3.5mah cells, you'll have a 7Ah battery. It will last over 3 times as long as well.
@kevinlsims7330 assuming the 4ah is available for his particular drill
You should probably invest in a silicone ring Vince, I use mine for electrical tasks.
Hey Vince, i purchased a spot welder off Amazon, Seesii Farad I believe the model, around £120 I paid and welds up to 0.3mm, over 100 different settings..
have never found a battery strip it won't weld through.
Not sure of the reputation/quality but I've used it many many times and has never let me down.
Eh, I disagree with the 'buy cheap buy twice' thing these days. You can spend $400 on something and still end up with a terrible product vs a cheaper one.
Here in Australia, our major hardware store retailer (Bunnings -- Better known as The Big Green Shed) sells a brand called 'Ozito', now, while you wouldn't use that as a professional tradie, for pretty much everyone else, despite being cheap, they are rather reliable, and when they break, since Bunnings is the only company that sells them, you simply return the broken product for an immediate free replacement.
I've also had other expensive items that have been lucky if they last 6-12 months.
Price doesn't equal quality anymore, sadly.
Yeah the 5 year warranty is awesome. Ozito are rebranded Einhell tools. Einhell is a German company. Cheap and cheerful means I can have twice the number of tools vs Makita or Ryobi. Or 10 times vs DeWalt
I can recommend the kweld for spot welding. It's a DIY kit and I printed the case for it. The capacitor board from Kweld is highly recommended. I think one of the best spot welders in the hobby area.
Typically, the charger will stop when any cell in a series pack is fully charged. Likewise when discharging the device will shut off when any cell is empty. The biggest problem with an imbalanced pack is that you won't get the full runtime. (Just like with the suitcase). In this case it really doesn't matter as the new cells will never fully charge or fully discharge as the weaker older cells will finish first both ways. You can test that behavior yourself by measuring the cells as they charge and when they cut-off.
Well it did stop charging when his green cells where (near) 4.2 volts, so it probably does stop charging when a single group is fully charged. Hopefully it does the same when discharging. But in my opinion doing this, without knowing exactly what kind of features the BMS has or how it behaves, is dangerous, some (older) lithium ion packs don't have a BMS at all, if you would replace a single cell (group) like this it would probably end up out of balance (new cells have a different capacity) and because there is no BMS that monitors the voltages of the groups this would lead to undercharged (when discharging) and overcharged (when charging) cells, which is dangerous.
It IS a problem when you mix those batteries because they are in series and clearly there is no cells balancer there. The problems will show up after your first cycle and get worse. The old batteries will get overcharged, it can be very dangerous
I just realized that there is a balancer at the charger, but you are still gonna have problems while discharging because the lower capacity ones may reache a very low voltage
I have a similar spot welder to you, but always run it off a proper car battery - might be your boost pack which is letting you down.
bit of wd40 on the door hinges eh vince?
There is no happy end when doing partial repairs with old battery packs - it may work for some times, but new issues will develop sooner when later. Get cheap chinese semi brand cells (e.g. Liitokala VTC5A) for 2€/cells - and replace all of them. The pack will last at least 10 years and the capacity as well as peak power will be higher.
Also: When replacing power tool batteries, you have to look up the spec sheet that they are high current. You may cause thermal runaway, when drawing too much current. This has noting to do with capacity, but is an independent parameter, often giving as "xC" x = multiple of its capacity rating in mAh or directly as Amps. Power tool batteries should have at least 20-30 Amps as 1P and ~15 Amps in 2P configurations.
Another good option, is to convert all tools "20V" tools to one battery standard (e.g. Makita or rioby) by replacing the battery receptable. Then you only need one type of charger and a 2-3 good packs to run everything, even the older tools.
I design lithium ion battery packs for consumer electronics and don't recommend anyone modify or repair a failed lithium ion packs due to a variety of possible hazards. If your spot welds are not perfect there is a possibility of local overheating during discharge which could result in excessive cell temperatures and a cell related thermal event. The original cells were closely matched for internal impedance and cell voltage, mismatched cells will result in poorer performance and life than well matched cells. During charging the lower capacity cells will finish charging soonerr and your 2.5Ah cells will not long term be fully charged, this might or might not be an issue depending on cell balancing and external current leakage paths in your BMS. I would keep any modified pack in a fireproof battery box. Otherwise I enjoy your videos!
This isn't a good idea. If the charger had balance leads to every pair of cells and charged them as individual pairs as some radio control lipo batteries do, then no problem. However in doing what you have done the red cells will become fully charged long before the green ones. The charger will keep charging until it sees the charge draw drop to a certain level and/or a voltage check. The green cells will hold this charge condition back and so the red cells will continue to be charged when they are full and should have been cut off. You may just get a hot pack or the red cells may vent and fail. On the positive side, these steel canned lithiums are made like this for laptops and tools as they are fire proof unlike the polymer cased versions in phones, etc. ie. they won't explode or catch fire. You really need to change them all for identical, same age cells. The charger won't care what the pack amp hour size is, it will just keep charging at its rated current or less until the pack voltage hits a peak or the draw current reduces to a certain value, so no drama there. Twice the capacity pack will just take twice as long to charge (but you want all the cells to be the same). Hope this helps.
We have Metabo in the USA, their name here is Hitachi.
A good balancer should discharge the green cells when they hit 4.2v if the other cells are lagging behind, that’s the whole point of a balance Charger it constantly monitoring the cells in the charge cycle, it stays constant current until each cell hits 4.2v then switches to constant voltage and the current falls off, I don’t know why you didn’t just take one of the cells from the parallel side and just made do with reduced capacity and you would of had some spare cells if it goes bad again
For cordless power tools I use 20A discharge rated 18650 cells, like the samsung 25R. To be able to use your spot welder you need to buy nickel strips 0.15mm thick, and replace the original nickel strips that came with the battery. All cells must have the same voltage when assembling the new battery pack.
Vince, I think the answer is that it will work and is not a safety issue. However the battery will become more imbalanced and perhaps even cause the adjacent battery to fail because they are parallel and it will carry most of the load. If the charger has a proper balancing circuit you could get away with replacing both parallel batteries together. But no charge balancer in the world will compensate for am unmatched pair in parallel.
If the new cells are not tool cells and do not have the necessary current capability, it could be a safety issue. They will heat up and if run for longer may experience thermal runaway.
Trying to fix a Bosch Athlet hoover. I had the same problem trying to weld 18650’s with the same welder. Bought the 99 Gears type spot welder and it wouldn’t weld 18650’s either. Ended up soldering very quickly with flux. That worked and didn’t blow up. However l shorted out the disconnected control board and let the smoke out. The battery bank was disconnected, not sure what shorted.
Maybe a follow up vid for the people who don't know all the ins and outs even if you told them not to do what you did some people will try it anyway
please read the advice posted here in the comments there are a lot of good comments
Playing with these battery's is very dangerous if you don't understand what you are doing
so please a follow up what not to do
Looking forward to the follow up with all the answers to the questions raised
It's ok with the batteries if the (5s) BMS is doing the low voltage cut off (2.5V). ;)
I am soldered my battery packs for ages now, nothing blew up and no battery degradation. It's pretty much an urban legend that bad things happen if you solder it.
That said, a spot welder is much easier (and faster) to use if you choose the correct settings. If you choose the wrong settings you can damage the battery. Strange, nobody warns you about that ...
Raising the battery pack from 2.2Ah to 5Ah would just mean it would last longer between charges. Replacing the 1.1Ah cell with a 2.5Ah cell won't really make any real difference, it just means the battery will work less than the others.
Ordered my spot weld from Aliexpress with a built-in high current low voltage transformer, input 220v
Looks like Metabo made by Bosch drill, I used to have a Bosch gbh 24v drill when i was in the building game, now i just have a little Makita which does for most things but cannot compete with a proper SDS drill
Molicell make 26a quick charge ,discharge cells , I got some for my vape ,and they're still going strong today ,from close ,towards two years
Thanks for the informative video and the accompanying discussion.
Wider spread understanding of battery repairs are going to be critical if EVs and home solar are to affordable long term also to make this technology as green as possible.
Looking forward to Vince buying a knackered Tesla now.
Vince, you are using your spotwelder wrong. You put way to much pressure on the welding probes.
Don't use ANY pressure and you will get much much stronger welds.
The Problem is: the batteries with the higher Ah don' t geht charged completely by the charger as it will stop charging as soon as all the batteries have reached the maximum voltage,i.enas soon as the 1,1 Ah batteries are charged, the 2,5 Ah cells won't bei charged top their füll capacity....
You could have tried cutting off most of the existing strips at the top of the battery pack and soldered or spot welded thinner strips to the remaining tabs and then spot weld to the batteries.
That was my thought
Wow you put over double the mAh rating cells in series, and not even balanced lol.... not what to do.. The balance will keep drifting out further each charge and discharge due to the capacity difference.
Will have issues with the higher amp batteries. They will discharge at a different rate and the drill will stop working even if the older batteries have enough power (I would think). I would say the drill can be used with higher amps or lower amps but all batteries need to be the same.
27:57 Perhaps a future video could be 'Trying to fix... a squeaky door' 🤪
Couldn't you have put in just one green cell? At least then it's only double the amp hours
Maybe, I didn't think of that 👍
The middle prong is for the temperature probe.
Currently using the MinderRC DH30 which can be brought on ali... not let me down so far
I would be interested to see the voltages it charges each of the pairs of cells up to ''after'' you've drained the battery pack. I suspect it will charge the old cells quicker than the new cells and you might only ever get a half charge into the 2 new cells.
Add leads outside the case or a USB port to the pack to only the new cells to regularly drain them lol
On the weak cell, you can bump charge it up to the point where it likely will work fine. Bump charging take advantage of the fact that AC has voltage on a sine wave so you will have voltage almost all the time. this places a voltage to the load at power on then the circuit takes over and removes the voltage. turning the charging circuit on and off (power strips work well) you can force power into the cell. after about 20 or so, just leave the 18650 single cell charger attached to the battery that was allowed to over discharge. It cannot hurt to try this.
why not keep all the healthy ones in the pack but instead of replacing the two faulty ones, just use one of those high capacity green batteries so you have 9 batteries in the pack.
or maybe out of the 8 healthy ones, choose 5 of them to keep in the pack. you'll lose half of the capacity but should be 100% safe right?
these may be wrong so i'd love it if someone would confirm.
Mod your Spot welder that is a Good one or your time was to short to welder it ? Was the input voltage and ampere correct? For such things you should use car battery!
Thank you for your informative video's!
Use motorcycle/drill battery 8ah above.for spotwelding
I'd replace them all with 18650s so they have the same capacity, likely at that voltage and configuration you'd not notice any power draw difference
the issue with what's in there now is like you said they're different capacities and will cause issues of equalization
the chargers and BMS of that era normally only measure via voltage, so as long as it gets fully charged to the nominal voltage the BMS will say "yep you're charged" but now it can't do that quite right since they're different capacities
That's the trouble with these battery pack , the cells are welded together ,making them awkward to replace
You think they ould come up with a no weld bolt together bus bar system ,making them easier to replace .But hey they don't want thats
The problem is that batteries with different capacities have different charge/discharge curves so they will have different voltages at the same charge times@ x amps so this will always be a problem because they willl never balance!
TV has rotted my brain - every time "there are four lights" was mentioned, can you guess what popped into my head?
Are you putting both spot welding probes on the nickel strips? Isn't one probe supposed to go on the nickel strip, and the other on the battery contact, so that the current flows from the nickel strip into the battery contact, not having the current just flow through the nickel strip?
A completely wrong repair video. You have to use same batteries with same milliamps. Also you have to be sure that all batteries are either fully discharged or charged before putting them, so that the charger can keep the balance between them.
Make a spot welder from a MOT with secondary removed and wind 1 or 2 turns of heavy gauge wire for output
I have a Sunkco 709AD+ Spot welder if your interested.
I tried a lot of the cheaper hobby spotwelders but with very mixed and often unreliable results. It pays to spend a bit more for a semi-professional spotwelder. The malectrics spotwelder is probably one of the best you can buy for less than €200.-
I think this will be fine. The green cells will have the easiest time ..not really empty when the drill stops working and not really full when the charger stops charging .. this is the best case scenario for Li-ION cells. The only worry would be the discharge rate of the new cells. The other cells having a relatively low capacity suggest they have heavy duty discharge capability. In most Li-ION cells it is a tradeoff between capacity and discharge rating. But I would not worry about it..
Thanks VVerVVum 👍👍
What you need is a big vise, a massive hammer and some grit and determination. A lot less fiddling about with plastics and such.
Hello Vince, changing 1 pair only is very bad idea. Change it all to get higher capacity of pack.
Metabo still exists, still a very good brand 👍
In my experience the li-ion cells in a pack go short when other batteries try to force reverse voltage in the completly discharged cell/pair. So the one cell that lost some capacity will be destroyed by the healty cells. And the cell that is not shorted can be revived no problem by slowly charging it.
Prob could have used low melt solder in that instance as doubtful the cell cavity would have gotten so hot it would melt low-melt stuff. As for me I am a Parkside fan all the way, the £20 Lidl's cordless drill I bought is still going strong 5-6 years later, the rotary cordless kit nearly as long and I dunno what 18650's they used but I can leave any of them for months and not lose any charge. Parkside is also a German company and why I liked my drill, rotary, impact etc is they are all made in Germany, think the only Asian parts are the cells themselves. I bought the Parkside drill in frustration as the major brand expensive one I had bought two years prior was shagged out after a year of not very heavy duty. My Parkside impact driver which has the 20v battery is such a game changer for me, just eats wheel nuts off the thread, buzz off and buzz on again and it will punch screws through the hardest timbers and surfaces, great for setting concrete anchors effortlessly. The rotary tool again bought when my very expensive Dremel burnt out, £20 and 5 years of quite hard duty and still running perfectly. BTW do check out Lidl's at mo, they got a really decent bench vice for £9.99 which has an attachment to clamp a dremel or soldering iron into plus soft jaw shells and quite a decent jaw gap, I bought one today and already worked it hard, just putting my rotary tool into it so I can do some watch case polishing, so much easier with a static tool :D
Yeah I found the same issue with my spot welder not being able to spot weld such thick nickel strip. I think only a commercial spot welder would have the power to spot weld such thick strip.
In the past I have double up on nickel strip by spot welding one strip on top of another as the strips are thinner the spot welder can weld the the strip without issue but I am unsure if doubling up on the strip doubles the current carrying capacity of the strip.
Maybe you could use some cells from old laptops for example with the same capacity to replace the faulty ones with.
Run the drill till the batterys go flat, charge it up and do this a few times for the batterys to balance.
half a volt either way won't make a lot of difference to the operation of the drill.
Don't know why you wouldn't use a flashlight to draw down the batteries
The amperage wont matter the bms should balance them and when fully chaged the cell will be 4.2v the higher the amperage is what the cell can supply if asked. And the equivalent will only take what it needs
I'd eat my hat (as they say) if the rest of the cells are still 1.1ah
If you only use it a bit, run one set in parallel, still last a while in use.
My pennys worth.
In the future if you replace all of the cells with a 2AH battery then you will have the same power with longer use life.
Let's get a vid of you fixing that squeaky door😂😂
Metabo i think i remember being sold at Focus DIY years ago before they went under...
ce n'est PAS bon, Vince, pas bon du tout, j'ai mis un pouce vers le bas, il serait meilleur de supprimer la vidéo.
on ne peut PAS tenter de recharger un accu li-ion durablement tombé a zéro volt, danger d'incendie.
on ne peut PAS mettre n'importe quel accu li-ion pour n'importe quel usage, il doit pouvoir fournir le courant suffisant en continu sans chauffer, et un moteur de visseuse puissante prend beaucoup d'ampères, danger d'incendie.
c'est STUPIDE de dessouder les accus sans tester leur capacité, elle s'est réduite avec le temps et l'usage, il ne doit plus rester grand-chose. ce qui n'est pas vraiment grave, mais leur résistance interne a grimpé et n'est probablement plus acceptable.
le taux d'auto-décharge (la perte quand la batterie est stockée) est aussi très différent.
il est quasi certain qu'il n'y a aucun équilibrage dans cette batterie, donc la tension a vide et en charge ne dépend QUE de la résistance interne chaque paire d'accu, très différente selon qu'ils sont jeunes ou vieux.
l'épaisseur des conducteurs de liaison en nickel participe au courant disponible pour le moteur, s'il est trop fin le courant chauffe le conducteur.
la BONNE façon de réparer le bloc batterie est de retirer les 10 accus usés et de les remplacer par 10 bons accus permettant un débit important (en ampères) sans trop se soucier de la capacité (en Ah).
bien sûr ça fonctionne avec seulement 2 accus neufs mais leur capacité est limitée par l'élément le plus faible de la chaine, c'est de l'argent perdu.
je suggère de vous informer par vous-même sur les accus, d'acheter un testeur de capacité et 10 ou 20 accus neufs identiques pour remplacer tous ceux d'un ou des deux blocs.
I see this a lot in tool batteries. Moreso where it's one cell that has failed.
Could you link to your spotwelder please?
powertools need high current discharge,, minimum 20A
if you are worried about the High Capacity on new Batteries just use 5 instead of 10.
My my your Tesla battery car trouble coming for sure no where to charge power cuts Doomed