I have watched so many reactions to Dune 2 and you're the first person that's ever made me realize that when Paul offered to carry Jamisses body he was officially asking to be a Paul bearer. I thought it was a bad dad pun too , but I had to repeat it cause you said it first
First one to make me realize that he stamps not just because he doesn’t even find the Emperor worthy of speaking to him at that point, but actually so that it couldn’t be said he used the voice to make him kiss the ring. He said nothing, stayed silent so that it was clear the Emperor made his own choice to do it.
Hans Zimmer created such an amazing score for this movie. And I'm watching your reaction literally the day after I got to see him live :) And his live show, if you ever get a chance to go...is a MUST.
Anyone who uses atomics against people immediately incurs the wrath of all the other great Houses. So Paul uses them to break the shield wall, thus allowing the worms access to Arrakeen.
I read that explanation before and it makes total sense, but as someone who hasen't read the books it's one of my minor complains about the movie. In the scene it looked like the nukes were only used to yeet a few large boulders at the enemy. One or two lines from Gurney or Paul about the ban or about the importance of the shield wall would have cleared up my confusion why they seemingly used the nukes so ineffectively.
Which ultimately doesn't matter because the houses refuse to stand down in this version and instead of being a man of his word and destroying spice production (though a few atomics wouldn't actually do that...) Paul has the Fremen massacre them.
@@LordVolkovpaul said he would destroy spice production if the great houses attacked… and they didnt at all, just refused to call him emperor, so he still a mam of his word😂😂
Jessica didn't know about her father because she was taken by the Bene Gesserit from her mother not too long after her birth and raised by them. Please note that Denis Villeneuve had to make many changes from Frank Herbert's seminal novel. Most of us who have read the novel, and or all six novels, understand why this was done. Obviously, to get the details that couldn't be shown (we'd be talking about a 5-hour part 1 and a 5-hour part 2) will need to read the novel. Thank you for reacting to these two great films. You did a fantastic job!
The SciFi miniseries knocks out the entire book in less time than Part 1&2 combined... Maybe if Denis didn't insert so much into this one he could have included more book?
@@LordVolkov It also had a far lower production quality in every respect, and boy does it really show... Oof. Not every detail needs to make it onto the big screen, especially on a shoestring budget. You're better off reading the book again over that mini-series. 🥱
The book(s) are absolutely fantastic, and actually FAR DEEPER than could ever be filmed. I'd bet you would really enjoy them.The lore/worldbuilding, religion, politics, and philosophy in Frank Herbert's novels are astounding. As an omnipresent narrator, the book is not just from Paul's perspective- you are in the minds, throughts, and conversations of ALL the major players on all sides. It's sort of the "granddaddy of all science fiction" in a way.
If Denis does his job right, the spacing guild will play a big role in part 3; you saw a glimpse of them in part one with the emperor’s herald announcing the transfer of arrakis to house Atreides. Also no spoilers but some old faces should play a big part as well
Dune is essentially about how Jessica and the emperor messes up the Bene Gesserit's several thousand year breeding project aimed at gaining absolute control of the future of the human species forever by being in control of an emperor that can see both the future and the past. By birthing giving Duke Leto Paul instead of the daughter she was ordered to, the BG can no longer marry the two end products of their plans (the female Paul that never was or his sister Alia, and Feyd Rautha). Their son would then become the emperor, under their control, since they also made sure the emperor was weak, and had only daughters taught by Gaius Helen Mohiam. The emperor also messed up big by wiping out the Atreides mostly due to his own insecurities, leading to the nightmare scenario for the BG where potentially both Paul and Feyd could have killed each-other, leaving only the backup child of Feyd and Margot to maybe save the bloodlines... They were probably wrong in any case however, since it is dubious that they could have controlled the Kwizatz-Haderach as they thought they would be, sort of proven by how Paul ended up, but hey-ho...
I disagree. The BG's don't predict the future they plan, and more importantly, they have all kinds of backup plans. Things don't necessarily always go the way you want it. Yes, they wanted her to have a daughter because they felt that things weren't yet ready and their opinion was the best option was to have another daughter. She didn't and Jessica turned out to be right.
Paul and Feyd are both potential canidates and both have future site. Feyd saw Lady Fenrig in his dreams. Multiple people who can see the future muddle things up. It's not mentioned in the movie but in the books the Spacing guild navigators also see the future and it can be a mess
Safely atop rock, the Harkonnens have to avoid accidental shootings in a melee. A laser hitting a shield sets off a small nuke blast. You even saw a nervous soldier kill one of his mates, thanks to Rabban's bad bullying tactics.
Jessica was a concubine, Chani will be a concubine. The princesses Irulan will never know the warmth of Paul's touch. this is just one of the things I whish was in this movie because it was in the book. I highly recommend the book, only because it will give you a bit more in depth knowledge of this universe. But if I also think if one only watches these 2 movies they are sufficient.
Interesting BTS fact: they actually got some of the eclipse shots in those first scenes from an actual eclipse that happened while they were filming in Jordan
I’ve read the original six book series multiple times over the last 30 years. One thing I’ve always loved about this universe is that it is set so far in the future that Herbert was able to basically paint on a blank canvas. There’s books of backstory to explain how this civilization came to be the way it is. One of the key things is what would a civilization look like thousands of years after they banned AI and advanced computing technology? Not just banned, but basically re-wrote religions around the concept of ‘thou shalt not make a machine in the likeness of a human mind’.
i love Stilgar messing with Paul early in the film about what he needs to watch out for, like the djin -- he gets all spooky talking about how they'll deceive him, goes "Boo!" to startle him and gives him that "I'm just screwing around with you," look, then says, "But really, don't listen to them."
@@LordVolkov Stilgar's line, and the scene, didn't give me the impression that Stilgar is being made a clown, or even clowning around. The "boo" was him just trying to lighten up an otherwise serious and/or dangerous situation that Paul may face alone. That's why he goes back to being serious, saying for the second time not to listen to the djin. Stilgar, is just so nonchalant about death. It was shown when explaining to Jessica what would happen if she refused to be the Reverend Mother to the Fremen. Same with when he talks to Paul about the djin, and he does it again, regarding riding Shai-Hulud simply saying either he becomes Fremen, or he dies.
@@Jason_N7 Have you read the book? Stilgar is a wise naib and gives Paul actual good counsel in the book... the movie doesn't need comic relief or mood lightening any more than it needs Stilgar shouting Lisan Al-Ghaib at everything Paul does.
@@LordVolkov I have. The thing is, this is a movie adaptation... and Denis made changes to it. And this is Javier Bardem's take on the character. He probably thought it would humanize Stilgar by being how he is with Paul, with the lines provided by the script. I'm sure it wasn't in Bardem's mind that he was being comedic, but more of being a fanatic, which for me, works so well. Him being so extremely supportive of Paul, as well as reading everything that Paul does as prophecy, is what a fanatic would be... I speak out of experience, as I have met a number of Christians that act like fucking zealots.
@@Jason_N7 Firstly, this is not Javier's take on the character. It's him making the best of a character rewritten to have no depth or purpose in the plot... That was the perfomance Denis wanted from him. The few moments where he isn't mindlessly worshiping Paul he gets to spout exposition about the water caches (that make no plot difference when they don't even use them as part of the spice annihilation threat and were also Chani's lines in the book), names Paul (without Paul actually embodying any of the mouse's traits), and jokes around about things never shown... Denis uses him as a caricature of religious zealots instead of an actual person, and I would wager that a lot of Javier's best scenes ended up on the cutting room floor with Thufir and Fenring.
Maybe the Dune saga is not about Good vs. Evil. Maybe one can understand the themes better if one refrains from trying to assign the labels Hero and Villain to individuals and groups of people. Maybe this universe and the lessons of this tale are more complex and nuanced than that.
"The Real Him" is Paul Atreides pre-Water of Life, only a potential Kwizatz Haderach. The him *after* the Water of Life is the Kwizatz Haderach made manifest; he is permanently altered with massively expanded abilities. As his understanding is expanded, his self fundamentally changes to a new Real Him. This is now the real Paul Muad'dib Harkonnen Atreides. It. Is. Heartbreaking!
The ritual literally downloads the memories of your ancestors into your own brain. The process of integrating them with your own personality and experience creates a new version of yourself since we are all shaped by our own experience and he just acquired the experiences of his ancestors. That is why both he and Jessica behaved so differently after going through the ritual.
Great reaction! The movie differs from the book in several ways, but the story line is intact. I love the books & films both. The third episode will take (perhaps) an unexpected direction. It's going to be difficult to film, but Denis Villeneuve has done a masterful job so far. P.S. Don't give up on Paul and Chani. Remember what Paul said about that.
I think that is one of the good points of the miniseries and far superior to the movies final scene. I also liked the change in the miniseries were Paul is able to actually share with Jessica his vision literally for a moment.
Possible spoilers............... A lot of people will call Paul the villain but that is too simple. Yes Herbert is warning us about following a charismatic leader fanatically and Paul is such a leader and does cause the Jihad but it isn't what he would have chosen if he could survive any another way. (okay I know about the Golden Path and that he could have gone down that route instead but desperately tried to avoid it and in that lies the tragedy of his story). For me he is a Hamlet figure, a tragic, human, fallible person pushed into circumstance beyond his control even as the Kwizatz Haderach. So to me he is the hero of the story only not all heroes end up on the good side of history!
Frank himself said :" He shows the hero's clay feet." I believe he was referring to the biblical image found in the book of Daniel which has iron mixed with clay that eventually falls. On a finer point what Paul doesn't see is all of the consequences of avoiding the golden path, which makes the premise of the recent video game about Paul not being born as utterly ridiculous and a perversion of the story on the level of "The Rings of Power" to "Lord of the Rings."
Somewhat spoilery, but I think you can piece it out yourself: A lot of the interactions with Gaius Helen Mohiam (the old Reverent Mother) hit on a whole different level when you know that she is Jessica's mother. She conceived Jessica with the baron in a similar way than Margot Fenring with Feyd-Rautha: the baron never knew he had a daughter. In the movie when she openly admits to forcing the emperor to kill the Atreides, she in fact admits ordering the kill on her own daughter and grandson (in the books it is the emperor's own decision). The last scene between her and Jessica feels a lot "oh. My daughter is all grown up, now... and she doesn't listen to me anymore". There is a lot of respect here. And, lastly, I think this is why Paul can effectively use the voice on her: since she is his grandmother, he has access to all her memories up until Jessica's conception, so he knows her pretty well.
I wouldnt be so sure that Denis' version is going with that plot point. Nothing points to that being the case so far. (maybe yet another plot reveal in Messiah perhaps....)
this picks up right where left off in part 1. these are the SAME BOOK part 1 was the first 1/2 this is the 2nd half of the book. the movies should seen as one big movie.
House Atreides' ancestors are Greek from the mythic House of Atreus which notably included King Agamemnon and his brother Menelaus from the siege of Troy. However, as Dune 1 takes place 20,000 yrs in the future, there obviously has been a lot of racial mixing.
A big part is Paul's sister Alia was born during this time. Also Chani knew the whole time that Paul could not marry her since he has to stay unwed for political marriage options. Jessica was to have Paul be a girl and she would have married Feyd, but Jessica had a son for Leto. Paul also promises Irulan he would never sleep with her or give her children because of his love for Chani.
I am a bit sceptic about the next movie and also everything after that will be impossible for the big screen. That beeing said God Emperor of Dune is my favorite book in the series.
Nonsense. They've said that about every movie right before it pushes the boundaries of cinema and becomes the new norm. This will be no different, and if anyone can do it, i trust Denis could. (Granted, i just think he should do Messiah and be done with the story....)
i doubt they'll get to it in messiah(movie), but the dripping blood belong to the dead bodies of the 12yr holy war. In the books chani everything and works with jessica to conform the others
Jessica’s mother is Reverend Mother Mohiam. The Bene Gesserit sent her to the Baron to get pregnant by him. But he doesn’t like women. So she blackmailed him & took his sperm. Then had a girl like she was instructed to. At birth the baby is taken away & Mohiam has nothing to do with her rearing. Jessica was raised to love Leto. She gave him a son like he wanted but she was supposed to have a daughter that would then get with Feyd & produce the Kwisatz Haderach. Jessica & Paul know about Mohiam & Baron being her parents after taking the water of life. Bene Gesserit have all of the past Reverend Mothers in their head. Go read the books if you want better explanation.
Still crazy to me that people think Paul "turned evil". Its not so much he's a bad person. Its just that he knows what the future holds. If he doesn't do what is necessary it will end far worse.
You're falling into a bit of a logical fallacy here which seems common when discussing Dune. We only know that Paul 'thinks' he knows what must be done, or that at the very least (and most cynically), that he is SAYING that he knows. It is just as possible that Paul has been deceived by his powers, or more sinisterly is lying from a position of authority to sway those under him, as it is that his powers are 100% reliable and trustworthy. From an in-universe bystander position, we simply don't know, and that is the danger of following Paul's designs. (Personally i like to think that Paul really does believe everything he is shown in his 'sight', but unknowingly falls into the trap of not considering that he may in fact be wrong.) Part of the horror of what Paul enables is not knowing if an alternative would have been far less destructive. Dune is all about the dangers of following a charismatic leader, especially one with demonstrable supernatural abilities.
Frank explains the fallacy's and weaknesses of the series prescient abilities." Think of sight, if you're are on the floor of a valley, you cannot see beyond your valley." In the voice of princess Irulan of Paul describing his actions Paul always tried to steer away from a too clear safe course "warning, that path leads ever down into stagnation."
Not really. It's in my opinion that he hasn't got that good of a second act story in "Dune Messiah" that he has to tie up time to resolve a plot point that never existed in the books. Some have opined that Chani in the movie is supposed to represent how the audience should feel. On the surface that might have merit, but how will they feel when some kind of reconciliation has to happen in "Dune Messiah?" If you've read the story then you know there are few, very few ways to make it go without reconciliation, or making the story less interesting and dramatic by x-ing out some story elements in favor of other contrived ones.
Turning Chani into Paul's denier instead of the bearer of her father's legacy was... a choice 😅 It removes all of her personal agency trying to fulfill Dr Kynes' dream of terraforming Arrakis and replaces it with denouncing Paul as a messiah while still dating him 🙃 She's even a sayadina (a friend of god) in the book...
I wouldn't bother with the 1984 film. It's a travesty. If you must see more and don't mind spoilers, I highly recommend the 2003 miniseries Frank Herbert's Children of Dune. It covers the next 2 books, Dune Messiah and Children of Dune.
To this day you will still get people who defend that movie as some kind of masterpiece. It's a wonderful history piece for posterity but by the gods, is it anything but a good movie lol. Better to enjoy specific scenes FROM it taken in isolation, than try to justify the entire runtime, imo. And it DID give us the amazing Brian Eno score. 🤘
For as close as Part 1 tried to be, there so much excised from Part 2 that I found it incredibly jarring. The disrespect to Jamis was especially offputting, as Paul's behavior at his funeral is one of his first defining moments among the Fremen. Denis is not a friend of Jamis... Denis also leaves out all the symbolism of the name Muad'Dib in Paul's journey - the desert mouse makes its own water, is wise in the ways of the desert, and is 'the teacher of boys' - book Paul knows the ways of the Fremen as though born to them, teaches the Weirding Way to the Fedaykin, and gives his water to the dead (tears). Part 2 Paul has to have lessons from Chani, doesn't teach anyone anything, and is never given a chance to cry for Jamis. Seek out the SciFi miniseries Frank Herbert's Dune. It's shorter than Part 1&2 combined (3 90 minute episodes) and covers about 90% of the book. If you can get over the 2000s low budget CGI, it's an exceptional adaptation. There is also a sequel series, Children of Dune, that covers Messiah and Children of Dune. It has a frequently shirtless James McAvoy 😉
3:08 and the emperor said It needs more cowbells I went into the second movie completely blind, well I read the book so I knew what happened but I mean the movie. And when I found out Christopher Walken was playing the emperor I freaked You see there's this music video where he dances to a song called weapons of choice by Fatboy slim And that has several Dune references in it. The most direct is, walk without rhythm so you don't attract the worm. th-cam.com/video/wCDIYvFmgW8/w-d-xo.htmlsi=y8g36zJ0RryQXhX1 So I guess that was in the emperor's earlier years. 😂 29:16 only the reverend mother can drink the water of life she contains the memory of every other reverend mother of the Bene Gesserit. The author of The Dune books Frank Herbert wrote them as a warning against blindly following religious or charismatic leaders. They have their own agenda which is going to be different for what is actually good for the country or the civilization. I really don't know where he's going to take the third movie because the first two movies covered the book Dune And the next movie will have to be based on the book The God emperor Dune And that is significantly different than the first book. I've been waiting 47 years or so for this movie I can wait a couple more for the third chapter. 😢
I think you mean the second book is 'Dune Messiah'. Which is hugely important for resolving Paul's story. I doubt Denis will (or needs to) touch God Emperor Dune at all.
I have watched so many reactions to Dune 2 and you're the first person that's ever made me realize that when Paul offered to carry Jamisses body he was officially asking to be a Paul bearer.
I thought it was a bad dad pun too , but I had to repeat it cause you said it first
First one to make me realize that he stamps not just because he doesn’t even find the Emperor worthy of speaking to him at that point, but actually so that it couldn’t be said he used the voice to make him kiss the ring. He said nothing, stayed silent so that it was clear the Emperor made his own choice to do it.
Books of the Dune saga : the story is much more crazier than you could think about with this 2 movies showing only a small period of time in history !
Hans Zimmer created such an amazing score for this movie. And I'm watching your reaction literally the day after I got to see him live :) And his live show, if you ever get a chance to go...is a MUST.
I got my tickets for next December! Almost-Front row block seats too, woooo. It'll be my first time catching him live. So stoked.
Anyone who uses atomics against people immediately incurs the wrath of all the other great Houses. So Paul uses them to break the shield wall, thus allowing the worms access to Arrakeen.
I read that explanation before and it makes total sense, but as someone who hasen't read the books it's one of my minor complains about the movie. In the scene it looked like the nukes were only used to yeet a few large boulders at the enemy. One or two lines from Gurney or Paul about the ban or about the importance of the shield wall would have cleared up my confusion why they seemingly used the nukes so ineffectively.
Which ultimately doesn't matter because the houses refuse to stand down in this version and instead of being a man of his word and destroying spice production (though a few atomics wouldn't actually do that...) Paul has the Fremen massacre them.
@@LordVolkovpaul said he would destroy spice production if the great houses attacked… and they didnt at all, just refused to call him emperor, so he still a mam of his word😂😂
@@uzul42and i guess paul used the atomics as well to destroy the mountains and clean the path to the worm riders
Jessica didn't know about her father because she was taken by the Bene Gesserit from her mother not too long after her birth and raised by them. Please note that Denis Villeneuve had to make many changes from Frank Herbert's seminal novel. Most of us who have read the novel, and or all six novels, understand why this was done. Obviously, to get the details that couldn't be shown (we'd be talking about a 5-hour part 1 and a 5-hour part 2) will need to read the novel.
Thank you for reacting to these two great films. You did a fantastic job!
The SciFi miniseries knocks out the entire book in less time than Part 1&2 combined...
Maybe if Denis didn't insert so much into this one he could have included more book?
@@LordVolkov It also had a far lower production quality in every respect, and boy does it really show... Oof.
Not every detail needs to make it onto the big screen, especially on a shoestring budget. You're better off reading the book again over that mini-series.
🥱
@@Musabre You're still here? If Denis didn't want to adapt the book, he should have called it something else.
The book(s) are absolutely fantastic, and actually FAR DEEPER than could ever be filmed. I'd bet you would really enjoy them.The lore/worldbuilding, religion, politics, and philosophy in Frank Herbert's novels are astounding. As an omnipresent narrator, the book is not just from Paul's perspective- you are in the minds, throughts, and conversations of ALL the major players on all sides. It's sort of the "granddaddy of all science fiction" in a way.
If Denis does his job right, the spacing guild will play a big role in part 3; you saw a glimpse of them in part one with the emperor’s herald announcing the transfer of arrakis to house Atreides. Also no spoilers but some old faces should play a big part as well
Dune is essentially about how Jessica and the emperor messes up the Bene Gesserit's several thousand year breeding project aimed at gaining absolute control of the future of the human species forever by being in control of an emperor that can see both the future and the past. By birthing giving Duke Leto Paul instead of the daughter she was ordered to, the BG can no longer marry the two end products of their plans (the female Paul that never was or his sister Alia, and Feyd Rautha). Their son would then become the emperor, under their control, since they also made sure the emperor was weak, and had only daughters taught by Gaius Helen Mohiam. The emperor also messed up big by wiping out the Atreides mostly due to his own insecurities, leading to the nightmare scenario for the BG where potentially both Paul and Feyd could have killed each-other, leaving only the backup child of Feyd and Margot to maybe save the bloodlines... They were probably wrong in any case however, since it is dubious that they could have controlled the Kwizatz-Haderach as they thought they would be, sort of proven by how Paul ended up, but hey-ho...
I disagree. The BG's don't predict the future they plan, and more importantly, they have all kinds of backup plans. Things don't necessarily always go the way you want it. Yes, they wanted her to have a daughter because they felt that things weren't yet ready and their opinion was the best option was to have another daughter. She didn't and Jessica turned out to be right.
There are over 30 Great Houses like the Emperor's House Corrino, House Atreides, and House Harkonnen. There are many more Minor Houses.
Paul and Feyd are both potential canidates and both have future site. Feyd saw Lady Fenrig in his dreams. Multiple people who can see the future muddle things up. It's not mentioned in the movie but in the books the Spacing guild navigators also see the future and it can be a mess
Safely atop rock, the Harkonnens have to avoid accidental shootings in a melee. A laser hitting a shield sets off a small nuke blast. You even saw a nervous soldier kill one of his mates, thanks to Rabban's bad bullying tactics.
Jessica was a concubine, Chani will be a concubine. The princesses Irulan will never know the warmth of Paul's touch. this is just one of the things I whish was in this movie because it was in the book. I highly recommend the book, only because it will give you a bit more in depth knowledge of this universe. But if I also think if one only watches these 2 movies they are sufficient.
“History will call us wives”
Interesting BTS fact: they actually got some of the eclipse shots in those first scenes from an actual eclipse that happened while they were filming in Jordan
That sounds so wild everytime i read it. But it goes someway to explain why it looks so damn good!
I’ve read the original six book series multiple times over the last 30 years. One thing I’ve always loved about this universe is that it is set so far in the future that Herbert was able to basically paint on a blank canvas. There’s books of backstory to explain how this civilization came to be the way it is. One of the key things is what would a civilization look like thousands of years after they banned AI and advanced computing technology? Not just banned, but basically re-wrote religions around the concept of ‘thou shalt not make a machine in the likeness of a human mind’.
i love Stilgar messing with Paul early in the film about what he needs to watch out for, like the djin -- he gets all spooky talking about how they'll deceive him, goes "Boo!" to startle him and gives him that "I'm just screwing around with you," look, then says, "But really, don't listen to them."
Except there is no payoff for it other than making Stilgar a clown
@@LordVolkov Stilgar's line, and the scene, didn't give me the impression that Stilgar is being made a clown, or even clowning around. The "boo" was him just trying to lighten up an otherwise serious and/or dangerous situation that Paul may face alone. That's why he goes back to being serious, saying for the second time not to listen to the djin.
Stilgar, is just so nonchalant about death. It was shown when explaining to Jessica what would happen if she refused to be the Reverend Mother to the Fremen. Same with when he talks to Paul about the djin, and he does it again, regarding riding Shai-Hulud simply saying either he becomes Fremen, or he dies.
@@Jason_N7 Have you read the book? Stilgar is a wise naib and gives Paul actual good counsel in the book... the movie doesn't need comic relief or mood lightening any more than it needs Stilgar shouting Lisan Al-Ghaib at everything Paul does.
@@LordVolkov I have. The thing is, this is a movie adaptation... and Denis made changes to it.
And this is Javier Bardem's take on the character. He probably thought it would humanize Stilgar by being how he is with Paul, with the lines provided by the script.
I'm sure it wasn't in Bardem's mind that he was being comedic, but more of being a fanatic, which for me, works so well. Him being so extremely supportive of Paul, as well as reading everything that Paul does as prophecy, is what a fanatic would be... I speak out of experience, as I have met a number of Christians that act like fucking zealots.
@@Jason_N7 Firstly, this is not Javier's take on the character. It's him making the best of a character rewritten to have no depth or purpose in the plot... That was the perfomance Denis wanted from him.
The few moments where he isn't mindlessly worshiping Paul he gets to spout exposition about the water caches (that make no plot difference when they don't even use them as part of the spice annihilation threat and were also Chani's lines in the book), names Paul (without Paul actually embodying any of the mouse's traits), and jokes around about things never shown...
Denis uses him as a caricature of religious zealots instead of an actual person, and I would wager that a lot of Javier's best scenes ended up on the cutting room floor with Thufir and Fenring.
Maybe the Dune saga is not about Good vs. Evil.
Maybe one can understand the themes better if one refrains from trying to assign the labels Hero and Villain to individuals and groups of people.
Maybe this universe and the lessons of this tale are more complex and nuanced than that.
"The Real Him" is Paul Atreides pre-Water of Life, only a potential Kwizatz Haderach.
The him *after* the Water of Life is the Kwizatz Haderach made manifest; he is permanently altered with massively expanded abilities.
As his understanding is expanded, his self fundamentally changes to a new Real Him. This is now the real Paul Muad'dib Harkonnen Atreides.
It. Is. Heartbreaking!
Paul Usul Muad'dib Harkonen Atreides. 😁
The ritual literally downloads the memories of your ancestors into your own brain. The process of integrating them with your own personality and experience creates a new version of yourself since we are all shaped by our own experience and he just acquired the experiences of his ancestors. That is why both he and Jessica behaved so differently after going through the ritual.
Great reaction! The movie differs from the book in several ways, but the story line is intact. I love the books & films both. The third episode will take (perhaps) an unexpected direction. It's going to be difficult to film, but Denis Villeneuve has done a masterful job so far. P.S. Don't give up on Paul and Chani. Remember what Paul said about that.
You say you like full circle. Spice is part of a circle. The life cycle of worms.
They did not put in the last few sentences in book1. The SciFi channel miniseries was a bit more accurate though. I still love this one though.
I think that is one of the good points of the miniseries and far superior to the movies final scene. I also liked the change in the miniseries were Paul is able to actually share with Jessica his vision literally for a moment.
Possible spoilers...............
A lot of people will call Paul the villain but that is too simple. Yes Herbert is warning us about following a charismatic leader fanatically and Paul is such a leader and does cause the Jihad but it isn't what he would have chosen if he could survive any another way. (okay I know about the Golden Path and that he could have gone down that route instead but desperately tried to avoid it and in that lies the tragedy of his story). For me he is a Hamlet figure, a tragic, human, fallible person pushed into circumstance beyond his control even as the Kwizatz Haderach. So to me he is the hero of the story only not all heroes end up on the good side of history!
Frank himself said :" He shows the hero's clay feet." I believe he was referring to the biblical image found in the book of Daniel which has iron mixed with clay that eventually falls. On a finer point what Paul doesn't see is all of the consequences of avoiding the golden path, which makes the premise of the recent video game about Paul not being born as utterly ridiculous and a perversion of the story on the level of "The Rings of Power" to "Lord of the Rings."
Somewhat spoilery, but I think you can piece it out yourself:
A lot of the interactions with Gaius Helen Mohiam (the old Reverent Mother) hit on a whole different level when you know that she is Jessica's mother.
She conceived Jessica with the baron in a similar way than Margot Fenring with Feyd-Rautha: the baron never knew he had a daughter.
In the movie when she openly admits to forcing the emperor to kill the Atreides, she in fact admits ordering the kill on her own daughter and grandson (in the books it is the emperor's own decision).
The last scene between her and Jessica feels a lot "oh. My daughter is all grown up, now... and she doesn't listen to me anymore". There is a lot of respect here.
And, lastly, I think this is why Paul can effectively use the voice on her: since she is his grandmother, he has access to all her memories up until Jessica's conception, so he knows her pretty well.
I wouldnt be so sure that Denis' version is going with that plot point. Nothing points to that being the case so far. (maybe yet another plot reveal in Messiah perhaps....)
this picks up right where left off in part 1. these are the SAME BOOK part 1 was the first 1/2 this is the 2nd half of the book. the movies should seen as one big movie.
House Atreides' ancestors are Greek from the mythic House of Atreus which notably included King Agamemnon and his brother Menelaus from the siege of Troy. However, as Dune 1 takes place 20,000 yrs in the future, there obviously has been a lot of racial mixing.
A big part is Paul's sister Alia was born during this time. Also Chani knew the whole time that Paul could not marry her since he has to stay unwed for political marriage options. Jessica was to have Paul be a girl and she would have married Feyd, but Jessica had a son for Leto. Paul also promises Irulan he would never sleep with her or give her children because of his love for Chani.
I am a bit sceptic about the next movie and also everything after that will be impossible for the big screen. That beeing said God Emperor of Dune is my favorite book in the series.
Nonsense. They've said that about every movie right before it pushes the boundaries of cinema and becomes the new norm. This will be no different, and if anyone can do it, i trust Denis could.
(Granted, i just think he should do Messiah and be done with the story....)
i doubt they'll get to it in messiah(movie), but the dripping blood belong to the dead bodies of the 12yr holy war. In the books chani everything and works with jessica to conform the others
Jessica’s mother is Reverend Mother Mohiam. The Bene Gesserit sent her to the Baron to get pregnant by him. But he doesn’t like women. So she blackmailed him & took his sperm. Then had a girl like she was instructed to. At birth the baby is taken away & Mohiam has nothing to do with her rearing. Jessica was raised to love Leto. She gave him a son like he wanted but she was supposed to have a daughter that would then get with Feyd & produce the Kwisatz Haderach. Jessica & Paul know about Mohiam & Baron being her parents after taking the water of life. Bene Gesserit have all of the past Reverend Mothers in their head. Go read the books if you want better explanation.
Still crazy to me that people think Paul "turned evil". Its not so much he's a bad person. Its just that he knows what the future holds. If he doesn't do what is necessary it will end far worse.
You're falling into a bit of a logical fallacy here which seems common when discussing Dune.
We only know that Paul 'thinks' he knows what must be done, or that at the very least (and most cynically), that he is SAYING that he knows.
It is just as possible that Paul has been deceived by his powers, or more sinisterly is lying from a position of authority to sway those under him, as it is that his powers are 100% reliable and trustworthy.
From an in-universe bystander position, we simply don't know, and that is the danger of following Paul's designs.
(Personally i like to think that Paul really does believe everything he is shown in his 'sight', but unknowingly falls into the trap of not considering that he may in fact be wrong.)
Part of the horror of what Paul enables is not knowing if an alternative would have been far less destructive. Dune is all about the dangers of following a charismatic leader, especially one with demonstrable supernatural abilities.
Frank explains the fallacy's and weaknesses of the series prescient abilities." Think of sight, if you're are on the floor of a valley, you cannot see beyond your valley." In the voice of princess Irulan of Paul describing his actions Paul always tried to steer away from a too clear safe course "warning, that path leads ever down into stagnation."
Pouty Chani really tied the film together.
Not really. It's in my opinion that he hasn't got that good of a second act story in "Dune Messiah" that he has to tie up time to resolve a plot point that never existed in the books. Some have opined that Chani in the movie is supposed to represent how the audience should feel. On the surface that might have merit, but how will they feel when some kind of reconciliation has to happen in "Dune Messiah?" If you've read the story then you know there are few, very few ways to make it go without reconciliation, or making the story less interesting and dramatic by x-ing out some story elements in favor of other contrived ones.
Turning Chani into Paul's denier instead of the bearer of her father's legacy was... a choice 😅
It removes all of her personal agency trying to fulfill Dr Kynes' dream of terraforming Arrakis and replaces it with denouncing Paul as a messiah while still dating him 🙃
She's even a sayadina (a friend of god) in the book...
Oh, you have so got to read the books..! 👍
Paul bearer lol
Remember when Jim Gordon came back to his wife?
“Baby sister to the rescue?”
Ehhhhhhhhhhh……
You’ve already met the bad guy for part 3.
I wouldn't bother with the 1984 film. It's a travesty.
If you must see more and don't mind spoilers, I highly recommend the 2003 miniseries Frank Herbert's Children of Dune. It covers the next 2 books, Dune Messiah and Children of Dune.
To this day you will still get people who defend that movie as some kind of masterpiece. It's a wonderful history piece for posterity but by the gods, is it anything but a good movie lol. Better to enjoy specific scenes FROM it taken in isolation, than try to justify the entire runtime, imo.
And it DID give us the amazing Brian Eno score.
🤘
1984 Dune will always be a grrrrreat movie.
Haters gonna HATE
@@SwiftJustice Nah, it's more than justified criticism. That movie is a hot mess with moments of brilliance. Respect where it's due and all that.
29:28 Just so you know, the second kiss was improvised by Austin Butler.
For as close as Part 1 tried to be, there so much excised from Part 2 that I found it incredibly jarring. The disrespect to Jamis was especially offputting, as Paul's behavior at his funeral is one of his first defining moments among the Fremen. Denis is not a friend of Jamis...
Denis also leaves out all the symbolism of the name Muad'Dib in Paul's journey - the desert mouse makes its own water, is wise in the ways of the desert, and is 'the teacher of boys' - book Paul knows the ways of the Fremen as though born to them, teaches the Weirding Way to the Fedaykin, and gives his water to the dead (tears). Part 2 Paul has to have lessons from Chani, doesn't teach anyone anything, and is never given a chance to cry for Jamis.
Seek out the SciFi miniseries Frank Herbert's Dune. It's shorter than Part 1&2 combined (3 90 minute episodes) and covers about 90% of the book. If you can get over the 2000s low budget CGI, it's an exceptional adaptation.
There is also a sequel series, Children of Dune, that covers Messiah and Children of Dune. It has a frequently shirtless James McAvoy 😉
In the books they don't call it a holy war in Paul's name, they call it a Jihad. That might give you an idea of who the bad guy is in part 3....
Implying that use of the word Jihad makes you the 'bad guys'...?
Implying Holy War is any better
I did not enjoy watching this reaction, I found the editing jarring.
In my opinion the role of the emperor was the only miscast in the entire movie.
I actually like it, but i would say if Walken had turned up the personality by like 20% and given it a little more energy it'd have been perfect.
3:08 and the emperor said
It needs more cowbells
I went into the second movie completely blind, well I read the book so I knew what happened but I mean the movie. And when I found out Christopher Walken was playing the emperor I freaked You see there's this music video where he dances to a song called weapons of choice by Fatboy slim
And that has several Dune references in it. The most direct is, walk without rhythm so you don't attract the worm.
th-cam.com/video/wCDIYvFmgW8/w-d-xo.htmlsi=y8g36zJ0RryQXhX1
So I guess that was in the emperor's earlier years. 😂
29:16 only the reverend mother can drink the water of life she contains the memory of every other reverend mother of the Bene Gesserit.
The author of The Dune books Frank Herbert wrote them as a warning against blindly following religious or charismatic leaders. They have their own agenda which is going to be different for what is actually good for the country or the civilization.
I really don't know where he's going to take the third movie because the first two movies covered the book Dune And the next movie will have to be based on the book The God emperor Dune And that is significantly different than the first book.
I've been waiting 47 years or so for this movie I can wait a couple more for the third chapter.
😢
I think you mean the second book is 'Dune Messiah'. Which is hugely important for resolving Paul's story.
I doubt Denis will (or needs to) touch God Emperor Dune at all.
@@Musabre thank you got confused there.