Also i'll sound like a douche but: I like that metal isn't accepted/mainstream. Like, it's our thing, it's not everywhere & we're part of it. I like this.
I don't know who said it, but someone reasoned why they hope it never becomes mainstream. They said that it loses what made it in the first place. It becomes softer, it appeals to masses and what ever soul it had vanishes becoming something it was never made to be. I've gotta agree completely. Let's take something almost every Metalhead hates. Glam Metal and Nu Metal. Glam was made to appeal to the masses of the 80s and to make more money for the record companies. Metal was huge in the 80s, and it's the very reason why Glam exists. It got so huge that it traded it's soul for tight cheetah print spandex. Now let's talk about Nu Metal. I don't know much about the 90s phase of metal other than the fact that Grunge and Nu became hugely popular. This part isn't my area of expertise. I'd say that Metal is in a good place now. Loads of festivals and plenty of genuine fans are about. I sincerely hope that it never replaces the mainstream. For all of it's fans and for the music itself. In the end though, "You can't kill the metal."
@@nilo5747 Nu Metal has it’s roots in early 90s Alternative Metal. But came to from in the mid 90s. Nu Metal is a combination of everything that was popular in 90s music (Hip Pop, Industrial, Groove Metal, Grunge, Funk, and Reggae). I do think that Nu Metal is very misunderstood by a lot of people since it’s often known as “Metal with rapping” which isn’t the case, Nu Metal is taking your influences and making it into your own sound.
Mmm I wouldn't say so. I work at Hot Topic and some bands we get I've never heard of even tho it's the genre I listen too. Also another example we got Knocked Loose's, a hardcore band, new album shirt but they are most definitely not mainstream but are well known within the hardcore scene, they play in small venues almost like bars and more "mainstream bands" play in like arenas, medium to bigger sized venues and such. So that idea really doesn't work
@S K G sure it was, and I am calm dude. You don't see me getting angry or typing in all caps or swearing or anything. Just pointing something out, that's all
Yea you are tottally right. I remember when gwar did an episode of code name kids next door back in the day!!!! Wich is pretty cool. But thats the only example i can think of lol
Some other examples include Pantera being featured in the "Pre-Hibernation" episode of Spongebob, Dave Mustaine in some episode of "The Drew Carey Show" and "Duck Dodgers". Adult Swim had the series "Metalocalypse"; "Aqua Teen Hunger Force" had Zakk Wylde and Glenn Danzig as guests (the 2007 movie even had Mastodon).
Fun story about Iron Maiden... When I first got into metal as a teenager I always stayed away from the mainstream/big bands like Iron maiden, Metallica and so on. I guess it was looked as cooler to know the lesser known bands, plus it was fun to do your own research and find those rare gems. But like you said, some songs are so popular and just everywhere, and so I already knew (at least parts of-) The trooper, Aces high, Number of the beast, and Run to the hills and I always liked what I heard. Just recently I got a radio/CD player to keep in my living room and the radio would often play lots of Iron Maiden songs - even ones I hadn't heard before. In particular I found one where it had a quote from one of my favorite TV-shows (The Prisoner) and I took that as a sign and checked out their old stuff and fell in love instantly. I had no idea their most famous album and some of their songs were inspired by that TV-show, as I've never looked into it or heard people talk about that before. I've definitely caught the Iron Maiden bug now, and even though I've only checked out maybe 2-3 of their albums yet (there's soooo many D: ), they're in my top 3 bands of all time
Excellent video. I also had always seen mainstream metal bands the same as you, they might be mainstream to any metalhead, but people outside will never have listened to any song, only know it by their name.
great video as always man. it's hard when we are so in genre to imagine it to be underground, but honestly so much music comes out that pretty much everything can be underground to someone else
Great video as always! I think that an answer to the presented question varies depending on where you live and who you ask. Some parts of culture are mainstream, others are not. Some bands and people associated with will be recognized by non-metalheads. For example one of my classmates knew Nergal not from the music, but from some talent show he was a judge in, but had no idea about Behemoth or Me And That Man. The mainstream metal bands also vary from place to place, for example where I live Sabaton is very popular and once our history teacher had us listen to "Uprising". Band logos also tend to be more recognizable than their music in many cases, because a lot of people will wear band shirts. One guy at my school sometimes wears Ghost or Hammerfall shirts to school, another has a few patches on his backpack, I wear band shirts to school quite often as well, even though I don't have a lot of them (5 for now - I plan on getting more), so the symbols are quite well known. And about the issue of people wearing band shirts, without knowing the bands apparently it's because they think the logos look nice - as I heard from my non-metalhead friends - one of them said she wouldn't wear a shirt of a tv series she didn't watch, because somebody could've ask about the series, like it was not the same with bands, but apparently only the people who listen to those bands see the issue (apparently "Hey, nice shirt! Do you listen to them!" is a good conversation starter). I've got a cousin, who llikes old-school rock (Pink Floyd, The Beatles) and she sees the band shirts and people wearing them the same way as me, so I think it's not only metalheads' problem.
I remember several years ago in my hometown of Sacramento I was on the bus and this metal guy came on and sat in the back and blasted Sabbath's first album on his 80s ghettoblaster at high volume. It was glorious. Lol
with internet, The Deep Web isn't even underground anymore there's still tons of darkened corners off the edge of the universe and you'll find amazing bands in there from time to time
@@AzhidaReminiec9999 Deep Web I guess I meant that in terms of everything just being a few clicks away now... Its not like back in the day when you'd write letters and mail them out to record labels or record companies to subscribe to a monthly fanzine or order a shirt via snail mail, now everythings pretty much online. But even within Metal circles ppl still consider some bands "popular" even though no one really knows about them lol
There are the bands that are popular now that are mainstream, some others that are still underground,and have independent labels . I liked your topic very informative. Keep the videos coming and stay metal 🎸🤘
I remember there used to be nonstop metal videos on VH1 Classic when I was fresh out of high school. Everything from Metallica, to Iron Maiden, to Slayer, to Judas Priest, to Motörhead. Then they became MTV Classic a few years back and only air them at a specific time now.
This is a very interesting subject and one that I don't have a clear answer on. Here is what I can tell you strictly from my own opinion:There seem to be fewer metalheads out there than there were even ten years ago. Occasionally, I see people out in public wearing band shirts or "metal gear" but it seems to be fewer and far between these days. I myself enjoy wearing my band shirts and looking like a metalhead on weekends but no one at work would ever guess that I'm one. Some bands like Iron Maiden, Metallica, Tool, and Slipknot (all bands I enjoy) still sell out arenas, but there don't seem to be any bands that have debuted in the last decade that have reached that level of popularity. The TH-cam channel "The Punk Rock MBA" did a recent video on this. Pantera is a highly respected band among the metal community, but I guarantee you that if a new metal band reached that level of popularity today, they would be labeled as "sellouts" by many regardless of how good they were. It seems impossible these days to have both the money and fame of being a rock star AND being respected for writing quality music at the same time. I don't believe that "rock is dead" YET, but I do believe that unless some changes happen to the scene, it will slowly start to "die" and become more underground as the classic bands like Iron Maiden and Judas Priest start retiring. By changes, I mean we need new bands that are hungry and can command the same level of respect as the metal legends of old. Black Sabbath retired last year; it will happen to everyone eventually.
Underground is when you record your album on only 3 cassette and put in on random places in town. Probably it will end up in trash bin but who cares. Your trv af
Very good topic. I’ve always been asked this before . They’re is mainstream metal to name few like you said . But I’d most metal like me an you listen to is very underground. Especially the black metal genre
NO BODY depends what you consider Bm cuz a lot of upcoming artists who don’t tour , don’t have music videos an you can barely get ahold of copies of they’re stuff is underground. Most the bm I listen to is this way . Of coarse I listen to stuff like Mgla, watain etc stuff that isn’t but mostly what I listen to is underground is more so defined by minimal media use to none , no music videos , zero Merch only album purchases , no live shows etc one my favorite artist is a group called None which is definitely underground Atmospheric Black Metal could list a lot more
Man you always dis guitar hero, but i found a lot of cool new bands that I otherwise wouldnt have known about from them, being a kid back then I discovered some of the metal music I still listen to today. Not to mention they are pretty fun arcade style games.
I would consider metal a bit underground. Just look at the society's reaction to metalheads - I am, for example, not allowed to wear my metal jewellery at school and I've been bullied many times on summer camps for not liking the most popular songs/wearing band shirts
This strikes me as more of a band-by-band assessment issue as subgenres of metal can get pretty nebulous with the whole mainstream vs underground thing. Also, some of these subgenres go from mainstream to underground and maybe back to mainstream, depending on popularity, media attention, etc. at whatever given timeframe. Of course, the very nature of the Internet shines a big ol' light on some things assumed to be underground and, thus, forces them within the focus of the masses. So, that likely complicates things, too. Then again, I think there will always be components to metal culture that are always going to be "ours" -- but that's borne out of sincerity, dedication, and liking metal on its own merits and not because it's the flavor of the month. Good question/video. Love what you do.
Imo for a band/artist to be mainstream: 1. Their music needs to be played on mainstream radio stations (Serius XM stations specifically geared towards the specific genre of the band in question doesn’t count). 2. Their music needs to make it somewhere onto the billboard charts. 3. A significant amount of people outside of the core fan base of the band’s/artist’s genre needs to be familiar with or at least know of the band/artist. Being popular within the circle of your specific genre or sub genre does not automatically make your music mainstream. You need to actually be known by a significant amount of the general public.
There is a definite grey area. The idea of “underground” originated in the tape-trading scene of the late-80s and early-90s. As you point out, things changed with the internet, allowing bands to get international distribution for self-produced work. The division these days is more between signed and unsigned bands. Though even here there is a distinction to be made between smaller, more regional labels like Nuclear Blast and Napalm, versus bigger ones like Roadrunner.
If people who don't listen to Metal know the band, to me that band would be mainstream. I remember listening to Dark Funeral back in highschool and no one knew about them. Other kids listened to Slayer, Maiden, Metallica, Slipknot (I listened to those too). They didn't know about the different genres of Metal. "What's Black Metal?" So I'd show them bands I stumbled upon. I share your sentiment regarding band tees becoming "edgy". I find those people to be pretentious but I digress. Good video bro.🤘
Sometimes it is the timing when a band starts rolling with a career. I mean whatever is big is always changing every couple years and then those big bands ended up being underground after they live out their popularity. Excellent video by the way!!
I'm not sure about mainstream, but it is becoming more popular, and I think it will continue to be so the more people realize pop music is all fluff and no substance.
Didn't realize I would have been that much older than you. Sorry you missed out on the glory days of Loud on Much Music. An hour played twice a week of the best heavy metal. Pre-internet it was the way I found out about so much more beyond Slayer, Metallica and Iron Maiden
I think metal itself is underground nowadays, since most people today (especially young ones) listen to mainstream raggaeton, trap and edm/tropical house or whatever radios are giving them. On the most popular/mainstream radio stations there is barely any rock/metal track being played anymore.
I'd consider the better-known bands mainstream by metal standards at least. Since the '80s and early '90s I don't really think most metal has been truly "mainstream" by objective standards, but the better-known bands certainly still have name recognition and some basic familiarity outside the metal community. Also metal and some of its subgenres were fairly popular during the past couple decades, bands like Slipknot and A7X, regardless of what we think of those bands, they are examples of very mainstream and accessible metal and they're names most people are still familiar with. Same goes for whole subgenres like metalcore and deathcore. The older bands like Maiden and Metallica, also still very well-known, even if most people aren't super familiar with all their music. Now when you get into stuff like Amon Amarth and King Diamond, as you said, most in the general public wouldn't recognize the names, but they are certainly universally known within metal, so I would hardly consider them underground either. To me "underground" would be bands that are usually start-ups and unsigned or at least signed to small, low-budget labels. Bands that post their music online and do small shows and don't have a big following and bands that even metalheads probably wouldn't know about unless they're super into that specific subgenre and really follow it and all its developments closely. In other words just the few who are really "in the know." That can't really be said of any bands signed to Nuclear Blast, Metal Blade, etc. Those are marketed to mass audiences within metal.
Slayer is underground, Metallica is almost underground. Ozzy Osbourne and Black Sabbath are the only Real Mainstream bands that absolutely everyone on Earth is truly familiar with. I have met lots of people who have never heard of Metallica, but have never met anyone who didn't know exactly who Ozzy Osbourne is
The original way to determine how mainstream something is was to see if it’s on the radio so think about it, is it on the radio or do u have to get a cd to hear it in the car. That’s how I determine if it’s mainstream. So bands like disturbed and metallica, can be heard on the radio but not bathory or exodus
There was much loud which was a show that would play punk and metal videos. I'm from Quebec and use to hide to watch it. I must have been only 10 yrs old back then, now at 28 everything has changed.
Nergal of behemoth says in his book 'We all talked about commerce. I said that the topic did not apply to me because behemoth is an inherently underground band.' 'it didn't matter how much money you spend on a clip, or that it's viewed by a million people. That only says something about popularity. You can be famous and still stay out of the mainstream. 'Underground', first and foremost, is a message brought to people via music, and our message is undeniably extreme.'
My husband and I saw Iron Maiden this summer with another couple who listens largely to the most mainstream stuff like Slipknot, FFDP, Godsmack, etc. They asked what other shows we plan to see this year, and when we said Amon Amarth, they had no idea who that was! As mainstream as Amon Amarth is, there are still some metalheads who miraculously haven't heard of them.
"Mainstream" I think in this case is used for lack of a better word, a band can have a record label but the question remains is it a major or independent label and even if it is major people who like the music are going to flock to it regardless I guess in mainstream terns the closest you would probably get is the glam scene of the 80s because general rock music was shifting from the 70s to the 80s meanwhile you had kids in pubs and clubs listening to bands like Iron Maiden before they ever really gained dominance yet mention bands like Poison and Ratt and people were more likely to know about them back then
Post internet age, nothing is really "underground". You would really have to physically search for underground bands back then. Now, even if a band is super unknown, it could very easily be found by someone on their computer. Ningen isu was pretty unknown outside of japan, but suddenly one of their videos becomes viral.
I think the line between well known, mainstream and underground is thin and not that easy to determine. One example: I'm from a little village in the South of Germany and there is a thrash metal band (traitor, you must check them out!) which already played at Summer Breeze and Wacken, two very big and the last one the biggest metal festival, they have released 3 albums and have a solid catalog of merchandise, but I think they are not that known or that huge in the metal scene, so are they underground or not? I would say they're not, because of the criteria 1) official album releases, 2) playing at huge events or festivals 3) releasing official videos. Yet they opened for cannibal corpse this year in Germany, so I hope they will get even more recognition!
Well if you can see multiple different stuff by one band in merch store, that band can be considered mainstream. For example Slipknot, Metallica, Megadeth, Iron Maiden, Judas Priest, Motörhead and Slayer are quite mainstream. So many people who aren't even listening to metal daily know these bands, even by name. At least in my opinion. Let's say EMP-store has all those bands I listed before +AC/DC and there is huge amount of different kind of merch; mugs, patches, shirts, hoodies, pins.. you name it. I really consider it quite mainstream. And then there's bands that have just newest cd's and maybe 1 shirt or you can't even find anything by that band name.
Well, I think there are two sides of term "mainstream metal". The first side is bands who are really huge in metal community (Iron Maiden, Metallica, Black Sabbath, Ozzy Osbourne, Slipknot, Judas Priest and AC/DC) and their songs are very recognizable in notmetal world. This bands perform at enormous stadiums, popular tv shows etc. Otherside, there's mainstream metal for metalheads (Slayer, Dio, Accept, Mayhem, Venom, Sepultura, Death, Manowar, Pantera etc) and their song are classics in metal world and some songs are just known by nonmetal people. Actually, there's the third side of mainstream metal- stereotypes about metal fashion and sound, based on 80's hair metal or jokes about death metal
It's a gray area... it could be both.. Underground to someone who has made a great discovery. Mainstream when a band has been signed by a major recording label & has a video out Srenia actually is a Gothic Power Metal Band
To answer your question, yes, you have already talked the Sirenia album. You gave mentioned it as neither a recommendation nor a warning; somehting in between.
For me metal is pretty much underground I have like 3 metalhead friends then I have like 10 friends who occasionally will listen to rock and maiden and ask me about metal. I went into zia records for music and the metal section has one half of an isle and a little pit near the end of the second one, that’s it and it’s a big store with like 6 rows of music or more so yeah in my opinion/ world metal is underground but that’s okay it’s not for everyone and that’s the point of metal it’s for the select few not the masses. 🤘 Great video love watching your stuff dude
While basically, no. There are a massive number of bands that are signed to a label (not sure which one(s)). Kinda recently happened too. There are a few bands that are VERY well known of course, but even still most of their "big" are the only known songs, most of the rest of their songs aren't known. I do like that it is underground, I feel it keeps it from being commercialized or affected like country has these days. Just because you have a music video on TH-cam and a record deal doesn't mean anything, anyone can upload anything. I have punched people who've said shit like that.
I’d call it niche rather than underground. Metal still has a dedicated fanbase depending on where you live. And I’d rather prefer it to be niche than to become mainstream.
Okay, now days there a lot bands from different parts of the words that many listen the main bands of the country, when some metal head goes more into the metal probably first choose is the style of metal, there are a bunch of styles of metal and from each generes there a lot more bands. I think depends of each metalhead and their tendencies to listen some kind of styles and the bands that into that style but always some more bands to know and listen their performance .
I wouldn't be so quick to shit on Guitar Hero. For me, it was what got me into rock music when I was 12 which was obviously the gateway into metal. I'm sure as I'm an example, many other people got into rock music because of it.
In my eyes the underground died when the internet came along. Before that very few people knew about these bands and there was a level of exclusivity. Everything spread through word of mouth and writing letters/sending tapes. Now we have the internet, and you can find whatever the fuck you want with just a few google searches and you can keep up with everything that's going on with just a facebook or instagram account. So it's virtually impossible in my eyes for a band to be underground these days.
if you mention Amon Amarth to a Non-Metal Head. The person might think you are talking about The Lord Of The Rings books. The reason being amon amarth is another name for mount doom, the volcano in Mordor. and this is probably the only place where they have heard the name Amon Amarth before. especially if they are a massive fan of J R R Tolkien. The same could be said for Carach Angren too.
Or what I run across a lot is I tell someone I love metal or hear me playing it at work and they be like “I like metal. Five Finger Death Punch is my favorite metal band.” 🤦♀️🤮
That's kind of been my experience: the only other metal fan I know of at work listed off a handful of his favorite bands assuming I've heard of them, including Five Finger Death Punch and... I don't know, Kid Rock or something, and when I told him I'd heard the names but had never heard any of the music he said "are you sure you're a metal fan? What do you listen to?" and I list off a handful of bands like Venom or Celtic Frost or Mercyful Fate, and he gave me an equally blank look. Our other coworkers had never heard of any of the bands we were talking about, so I listed off a handful of bands that I figured everyone would recognize, like Twisted Sister, Motley Crue, Dio, and Black Sabbath, and at last with Black Sabbath found a band that everyone had heard of - and I was the only one who was familiar with more Sabbath songs than "Iron Man" and "Paranoid" ("Who is Black Sabbath?" "They're the Iron Man guys?" "Oh, yeah! They made the song for that movie? That's cool!") So, even "mainstream metal" is pretty much "underground" in a world where mainstream audiences are lucky to recognize more than say Black Sabbath, Metallica, Iron Maiden, and AC/DC! (Though I have to agree to an extent with the commenter that opined that "underground" has lost much of its meaning in the internet era and in an age where any hipster worth his salt is familiar with one or two metal bands on some sort of "ironic" level!) The punk rock guys have it even worse - watch the animated fun that ensues if you start a conversation with them about music, and pretend that punk rock began and ended with Green Day, The Offspring, Red Hot Chili Peppers, and Nirvana :D I doubt the casual observer would recognize even one punk rock band that a fan of the genre would respect - metal could probably fairly be considered "mainstream" by comparison!
'Underground' is today one of those largely meaningless terms like 'decadent'. Underground originally meant something that was illegal and therefor was only possible in dark basement rooms - the French Underground, for instance, was a resistance movement against the Nazis in WW II. The fact is that we, most of us, live in societies where we have enough freedom not to need to go 'underground' with metal. But imagine if you wanted to form a Satanist black metal band in Iran - ya might need to go underground with that. Good vid BMW. What about looking into countries where metal is illegal and where metalheads are persecuted. North Korea and Iran come to mind and I'm sure there are other places where this is the case.
I think most normal, and older people would probably know stuff like iron maiden, or Metallica. Maybe black Sabbath or slayer. But I think they'd have to be actual metalheads to know stuff like Bathory, Celtic frost, Darkthrone, or death.
Everyone and their grandma knows Cannibal Corpse. The real "underground" metal bands are the ones with less than 500 views on their home recorded EP, no record label and they play local shows. You'll never hear about them unless you see them play in your local bar, buy their DIY merch and home-made CD's lol. You could say the same thing about soundcloud/bandcamp, which is thriving with hungry and passionate underground artists with little fortune or fame.
Yeah when it comes to metal it's a little complicated. Metal definitely has huge popular bands.. But even the biggest metal bands are only really known by name by the masses. Not a single person I know in real life listens to metal but they know some names. Some of them don't even know names.. The thing is, if you don't go looking for metal.. then you won't find metal! And the majority of people do not go looking for metal. But it's the same for any genre, my friends are really into more modern popular music, and although the majority of people these days listen to that type of music... I don't really know any of it! I know some names but that's it. Because I don't go looking for that type of music so I don't find that type of music.
Id say cancerslug is an example of underground, they have a very dedicated fanbase but its not too big, 98% of their shows are at small pay at the door venues so you have to follow them to know when they are playing. Really good band though
its hard to say metal is big and quite popular and recognizable subgenre but not to point where radio play last rammstein album (it is sooo fucking great)
its all grey. the general public thinks were underground. i have friends who are metalheads that have never heard of bands i consider to be mainstream. It's all perspective i think.
Not true, arch enemy, amon amarth and behemoth are some of the biggest metal bands at the moment, and they're all considered extreme metal for the most part. I mean I find amon amarth and arch enemy a bit cheesy and they do have some kind of pop-ish melodies in them, but for the most part it's definitely extreme metal.
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Also i'll sound like a douche but:
I like that metal isn't accepted/mainstream.
Like, it's our thing, it's not everywhere & we're part of it.
I like this.
I don't know who said it, but someone reasoned why they hope it never becomes mainstream. They said that it loses what made it in the first place. It becomes softer, it appeals to masses and what ever soul it had vanishes becoming something it was never made to be. I've gotta agree completely.
Let's take something almost every Metalhead hates. Glam Metal and Nu Metal. Glam was made to appeal to the masses of the 80s and to make more money for the record companies. Metal was huge in the 80s, and it's the very reason why Glam exists. It got so huge that it traded it's soul for tight cheetah print spandex.
Now let's talk about Nu Metal. I don't know much about the 90s phase of metal other than the fact that Grunge and Nu became hugely popular. This part isn't my area of expertise.
I'd say that Metal is in a good place now. Loads of festivals and plenty of genuine fans are about. I sincerely hope that it never replaces the mainstream. For all of it's fans and for the music itself. In the end though, "You can't kill the metal."
Well it did become mainstream in the 80s with the whole glam/pop metal thing. But that's what will happen if metal becomes mainstream again.
Same. I like going to small 300 max capacity venue, being 2 feet away from the band, and actually interacting with them for only 25 dollars.
@@nilo5747 Nu Metal has it’s roots in early 90s Alternative Metal. But came to from in the mid 90s. Nu Metal is a combination of everything that was popular in 90s music (Hip Pop, Industrial, Groove Metal, Grunge, Funk, and Reggae). I do think that Nu Metal is very misunderstood by a lot of people since it’s often known as “Metal with rapping” which isn’t the case, Nu Metal is taking your influences and making it into your own sound.
To me if a band has a shirt at hot topic they're mainstream, that's the golden rule
A friend told me he saw a Death "Leprosy" shirt there. I guess Death is mainstream by death metal standards?
Mmm I wouldn't say so. I work at Hot Topic and some bands we get I've never heard of even tho it's the genre I listen too. Also another example we got Knocked Loose's, a hardcore band, new album shirt but they are most definitely not mainstream but are well known within the hardcore scene, they play in small venues almost like bars and more "mainstream bands" play in like arenas, medium to bigger sized venues and such. So that idea really doesn't work
@S K G wow so you're gonna judge me because of a place I work at without even knowing me. How typical of people like you
@S K G sure it was, and I am calm dude. You don't see me getting angry or typing in all caps or swearing or anything. Just pointing something out, that's all
Ozzmocs161 They have a Watain shirt there..
In the age of the internet, there's no mainstream vs underground anymore. There are clusters, factions, subcultures...
Love the Bathory shirt, my favorite band.
Rusty likes black metal. Mhmm yep
When I wear my Bathory shirt normies always look at me like I'm a scary Satanist.
@@damnedbelowjudas_ Burzum is better. But Bathory is still fantastic.
@@damnedbelowjudas_ I mean, Bathory heavily influenced Burzum.
I mean
It's "mainstream" among metal.
But you don't see metal culture everywhere like on tv & all.
So, for me no.
Yea you are tottally right. I remember when gwar did an episode of code name kids next door back in the day!!!! Wich is pretty cool. But thats the only example i can think of lol
Some other examples include Pantera being featured in the "Pre-Hibernation" episode of Spongebob, Dave Mustaine in some episode of "The Drew Carey Show" and "Duck Dodgers". Adult Swim had the series "Metalocalypse"; "Aqua Teen Hunger Force" had Zakk Wylde and Glenn Danzig as guests (the 2007 movie even had Mastodon).
My favourite BM band ”Black Metallica” is very underground with their debut christian jazzgoregrind album ”number of the maiden”
I don't know man, I think they kinda sold out when they used actual microphones for their last record...
LOL
Lol.
Fun story about Iron Maiden... When I first got into metal as a teenager I always stayed away from the mainstream/big bands like Iron maiden, Metallica and so on. I guess it was looked as cooler to know the lesser known bands, plus it was fun to do your own research and find those rare gems. But like you said, some songs are so popular and just everywhere, and so I already knew (at least parts of-) The trooper, Aces high, Number of the beast, and Run to the hills and I always liked what I heard. Just recently I got a radio/CD player to keep in my living room and the radio would often play lots of Iron Maiden songs - even ones I hadn't heard before. In particular I found one where it had a quote from one of my favorite TV-shows (The Prisoner) and I took that as a sign and checked out their old stuff and fell in love instantly. I had no idea their most famous album and some of their songs were inspired by that TV-show, as I've never looked into it or heard people talk about that before. I've definitely caught the Iron Maiden bug now, and even though I've only checked out maybe 2-3 of their albums yet (there's soooo many D: ), they're in my top 3 bands of all time
Excellent video. I also had always seen mainstream metal bands the same as you, they might be mainstream to any metalhead, but people outside will never have listened to any song, only know it by their name.
Dude keep these videos coming! Love your stuff! \m/
Metalhead are the most loyal music listeners in the world🤘🏼
I cant be loyal to metallica with that lulu garbage or suicide silence self titled album
🤘🏻
Yes!
True
great video as always man. it's hard when we are so in genre to imagine it to be underground, but honestly so much music comes out that pretty much everything can be underground to someone else
Great video as always!
I think that an answer to the presented question varies depending on where you live and who you ask. Some parts of culture are mainstream, others are not. Some bands and people associated with will be recognized by non-metalheads. For example one of my classmates knew Nergal not from the music, but from some talent show he was a judge in, but had no idea about Behemoth or Me And That Man.
The mainstream metal bands also vary from place to place, for example where I live Sabaton is very popular and once our history teacher had us listen to "Uprising".
Band logos also tend to be more recognizable than their music in many cases, because a lot of people will wear band shirts. One guy at my school sometimes wears Ghost or Hammerfall shirts to school, another has a few patches on his backpack, I wear band shirts to school quite often as well, even though I don't have a lot of them (5 for now - I plan on getting more), so the symbols are quite well known.
And about the issue of people wearing band shirts, without knowing the bands apparently it's because they think the logos look nice - as I heard from my non-metalhead friends - one of them said she wouldn't wear a shirt of a tv series she didn't watch, because somebody could've ask about the series, like it was not the same with bands, but apparently only the people who listen to those bands see the issue (apparently "Hey, nice shirt! Do you listen to them!" is a good conversation starter). I've got a cousin, who llikes old-school rock (Pink Floyd, The Beatles) and she sees the band shirts and people wearing them the same way as me, so I think it's not only metalheads' problem.
I remember several years ago in my hometown of Sacramento I was on the bus and this metal guy came on and sat in the back and blasted Sabbath's first album on his 80s ghettoblaster at high volume. It was glorious. Lol
Keep up the great work🤘🏻 Love your videos
I remember seeing amon amarth for the twilight of the thundergod tour when i was like 13 or something, its nuts to see how much they grew!
with internet, The Deep Web isn't even underground anymore
there's still tons of darkened corners off the edge of the universe and you'll find amazing bands in there from time to time
The Dark Web ?
@@AzhidaReminiec9999 Deep Web I guess I meant that in terms of everything just being a few clicks away now... Its not like back in the day when you'd write letters and mail them out to record labels or record companies to subscribe to a monthly fanzine or order a shirt via snail mail, now everythings pretty much online. But even within Metal circles ppl still consider some bands "popular" even though no one really knows about them lol
There are the bands that are popular now that are mainstream, some others that are still underground,and have independent labels . I liked your topic very informative. Keep the videos coming and stay metal 🎸🤘
I remember there used to be nonstop metal videos on VH1 Classic when I was fresh out of high school. Everything from Metallica, to Iron Maiden, to Slayer, to Judas Priest, to Motörhead. Then they became MTV Classic a few years back and only air them at a specific time now.
This is a very interesting subject and one that I don't have a clear answer on. Here is what I can tell you strictly from my own opinion:There seem to be fewer metalheads out there than there were even ten years ago. Occasionally, I see people out in public wearing band shirts or "metal gear" but it seems to be fewer and far between these days. I myself enjoy wearing my band shirts and looking like a metalhead on weekends but no one at work would ever guess that I'm one. Some bands like Iron Maiden, Metallica, Tool, and Slipknot (all bands I enjoy) still sell out arenas, but there don't seem to be any bands that have debuted in the last decade that have reached that level of popularity. The TH-cam channel "The Punk Rock MBA" did a recent video on this. Pantera is a highly respected band among the metal community, but I guarantee you that if a new metal band reached that level of popularity today, they would be labeled as "sellouts" by many regardless of how good they were. It seems impossible these days to have both the money and fame of being a rock star AND being respected for writing quality music at the same time. I don't believe that "rock is dead" YET, but I do believe that unless some changes happen to the scene, it will slowly start to "die" and become more underground as the classic bands like Iron Maiden and Judas Priest start retiring. By changes, I mean we need new bands that are hungry and can command the same level of respect as the metal legends of old. Black Sabbath retired last year; it will happen to everyone eventually.
Underground is when you record your album on only 3 cassette and put in on random places in town. Probably it will end up in trash bin but who cares. Your trv af
I think Sablast made a video about this.
@@Kobanyai_enjoyer idk. I don't watch him
@@krystianwojtas1032 Shame he is a great guy. The quote "Black metal is just like porn, homemade is the best!" is from him.
Very good topic. I’ve always been asked this before . They’re is mainstream metal to name few like you said . But I’d most metal like me an you listen to is very underground. Especially the black metal genre
NO BODY depends what you consider Bm cuz a lot of upcoming artists who don’t tour , don’t have music videos an you can barely get ahold of copies of they’re stuff is underground. Most the bm I listen to is this way . Of coarse I listen to stuff like Mgla, watain etc stuff that isn’t but mostly what I listen to is underground is more so defined by minimal media use to none , no music videos , zero Merch only album purchases , no live shows etc one my favorite artist is a group called None which is definitely underground Atmospheric Black Metal could list a lot more
Man you always dis guitar hero, but i found a lot of cool new bands that I otherwise wouldnt have known about from them, being a kid back then I discovered some of the metal music I still listen to today. Not to mention they are pretty fun arcade style games.
I would consider metal a bit underground. Just look at the society's reaction to metalheads - I am, for example, not allowed to wear my metal jewellery at school and I've been bullied many times on summer camps for not liking the most popular songs/wearing band shirts
I think its regional bro but even in california its semi mainstream. I can only imagine a dude in say kansas 😂 super underground
@@NAT-turners-Revenge well, I live in Western Europe 😂
@@magdachlebicka3895 Europe seems to have a healthy metal scene? You have large shows, long running bands, etc
@@NAT-turners-Revenge Eastern Europe. Western has some really extreme and great bands, but the society is not too open-minded
@@NAT-turners-Revenge I'm from Kansas
Great video dude
Back in the early 1980s the only place to hear rock and metal was on the Friday rock show on radio one with the late great Tommy Vance
Good to hear your POV when I get a chance- you're the man!
This strikes me as more of a band-by-band assessment issue as subgenres of metal can get pretty nebulous with the whole mainstream vs underground thing. Also, some of these subgenres go from mainstream to underground and maybe back to mainstream, depending on popularity, media attention, etc. at whatever given timeframe.
Of course, the very nature of the Internet shines a big ol' light on some things assumed to be underground and, thus, forces them within the focus of the masses. So, that likely complicates things, too.
Then again, I think there will always be components to metal culture that are always going to be "ours" -- but that's borne out of sincerity, dedication, and liking metal on its own merits and not because it's the flavor of the month.
Good question/video. Love what you do.
Imo for a band/artist to be mainstream:
1. Their music needs to be played on mainstream radio stations (Serius XM stations specifically geared towards the specific genre of the band in question doesn’t count).
2. Their music needs to make it somewhere onto the billboard charts.
3. A significant amount of people outside of the core fan base of the band’s/artist’s genre needs to be familiar with or at least know of the band/artist. Being popular within the circle of your specific genre or sub genre does not automatically make your music mainstream. You need to actually be known by a significant amount of the general public.
Love the vids man 🤘🏻
There is a definite grey area. The idea of “underground” originated in the tape-trading scene of the late-80s and early-90s. As you point out, things changed with the internet, allowing bands to get international distribution for self-produced work. The division these days is more between signed and unsigned bands. Though even here there is a distinction to be made between smaller, more regional labels like Nuclear Blast and Napalm, versus bigger ones like Roadrunner.
Is metal underground?
Lets find out
😂
If people who don't listen to Metal know the band, to me that band would be mainstream. I remember listening to Dark Funeral back in highschool and no one knew about them. Other kids listened to Slayer, Maiden, Metallica, Slipknot (I listened to those too).
They didn't know about the different genres of Metal. "What's Black Metal?" So I'd show them bands I stumbled upon. I share your sentiment regarding band tees becoming "edgy". I find those people to be pretentious but I digress. Good video bro.🤘
I love it that my favorite brutal death metal band Posthuman Abomination is underground.
Sometimes it is the timing when a band starts rolling with a career. I mean whatever is big is always changing every couple years and then those big bands ended up being underground after they live out their popularity. Excellent video by the way!!
I'm not sure about mainstream, but it is becoming more popular, and I think it will continue to be so the more people realize pop music is all fluff and no substance.
Didn't realize I would have been that much older than you. Sorry you missed out on the glory days of Loud on Much Music. An hour played twice a week of the best heavy metal. Pre-internet it was the way I found out about so much more beyond Slayer, Metallica and Iron Maiden
That's a very interesting question and I'm stumped I don't know
That shirt is so sick!! I need one! Where’d you get it?
Hot topic
The term underground is outdated. It had more clout before the internet.
There is a streaming 'service' called Metal Mania on Roku. All metal music videos.
I think metal itself is underground nowadays, since most people today (especially young ones) listen to mainstream raggaeton, trap and edm/tropical house or whatever radios are giving them. On the most popular/mainstream radio stations there is barely any rock/metal track being played anymore.
Nice video man, had a good time watching it!
Sirenia is a Symphonic Hothic Metal Band now
wow I missed your shit bro good to see you back!
I'd consider the better-known bands mainstream by metal standards at least. Since the '80s and early '90s I don't really think most metal has been truly "mainstream" by objective standards, but the better-known bands certainly still have name recognition and some basic familiarity outside the metal community. Also metal and some of its subgenres were fairly popular during the past couple decades, bands like Slipknot and A7X, regardless of what we think of those bands, they are examples of very mainstream and accessible metal and they're names most people are still familiar with. Same goes for whole subgenres like metalcore and deathcore. The older bands like Maiden and Metallica, also still very well-known, even if most people aren't super familiar with all their music. Now when you get into stuff like Amon Amarth and King Diamond, as you said, most in the general public wouldn't recognize the names, but they are certainly universally known within metal, so I would hardly consider them underground either.
To me "underground" would be bands that are usually start-ups and unsigned or at least signed to small, low-budget labels. Bands that post their music online and do small shows and don't have a big following and bands that even metalheads probably wouldn't know about unless they're super into that specific subgenre and really follow it and all its developments closely. In other words just the few who are really "in the know." That can't really be said of any bands signed to Nuclear Blast, Metal Blade, etc. Those are marketed to mass audiences within metal.
Slayer is underground, Metallica is almost underground. Ozzy Osbourne and Black Sabbath are the only Real Mainstream bands that absolutely everyone on Earth is truly familiar with. I have met lots of people who have never heard of Metallica, but have never met anyone who didn't know exactly who Ozzy Osbourne is
The original way to determine how mainstream something is was to see if it’s on the radio so think about it, is it on the radio or do u have to get a cd to hear it in the car. That’s how I determine if it’s mainstream. So bands like disturbed and metallica, can be heard on the radio but not bathory or exodus
There was much loud which was a show that would play punk and metal videos. I'm from Quebec and use to hide to watch it. I must have been only 10 yrs old back then, now at 28 everything has changed.
Nergal of behemoth says in his book 'We all talked about commerce. I said that the topic did not apply to me because behemoth is an inherently underground band.' 'it didn't matter how much money you spend on a clip, or that it's viewed by a million people. That only says something about popularity. You can be famous and still stay out of the mainstream. 'Underground', first and foremost, is a message brought to people via music, and our message is undeniably extreme.'
Answers: yes
Long answers: yeeeessssss
Answers: yes
Long answers: yeeeessssss
Answers: yes
Long answers: yeeeessssss
Some people wouldn't really consider glam metal or nu metal metal but they sure as hell used to be mainstream genres
Great video, that Bathory print is really good, whered you find the shirt?
My husband and I saw Iron Maiden this summer with another couple who listens largely to the most mainstream stuff like Slipknot, FFDP, Godsmack, etc. They asked what other shows we plan to see this year, and when we said Amon Amarth, they had no idea who that was! As mainstream as Amon Amarth is, there are still some metalheads who miraculously haven't heard of them.
"Mainstream" I think in this case is used for lack of a better word, a band can have a record label but the question remains is it a major or independent label and even if it is major people who like the music are going to flock to it regardless I guess in mainstream terns the closest you would probably get is the glam scene of the 80s because general rock music was shifting from the 70s to the 80s meanwhile you had kids in pubs and clubs listening to bands like Iron Maiden before they ever really gained dominance yet mention bands like Poison and Ratt and people were more likely to know about them back then
Post internet age, nothing is really "underground". You would really have to physically search for underground bands back then. Now, even if a band is super unknown, it could very easily be found by someone on their computer. Ningen isu was pretty unknown outside of japan, but suddenly one of their videos becomes viral.
I think the line between well known, mainstream and underground is thin and not that easy to determine. One example: I'm from a little village in the South of Germany and there is a thrash metal band (traitor, you must check them out!) which already played at Summer Breeze and Wacken, two very big and the last one the biggest metal festival, they have released 3 albums and have a solid catalog of merchandise, but I think they are not that known or that huge in the metal scene, so are they underground or not? I would say they're not, because of the criteria 1) official album releases, 2) playing at huge events or festivals 3) releasing official videos. Yet they opened for cannibal corpse this year in Germany, so I hope they will get even more recognition!
Well if you can see multiple different stuff by one band in merch store, that band can be considered mainstream. For example Slipknot, Metallica, Megadeth, Iron Maiden, Judas Priest, Motörhead and Slayer are quite mainstream. So many people who aren't even listening to metal daily know these bands, even by name. At least in my opinion.
Let's say EMP-store has all those bands I listed before +AC/DC and there is huge amount of different kind of merch; mugs, patches, shirts, hoodies, pins.. you name it. I really consider it quite mainstream. And then there's bands that have just newest cd's and maybe 1 shirt or you can't even find anything by that band name.
Well, I think there are two sides of term "mainstream metal". The first side is bands who are really huge in metal community (Iron Maiden, Metallica, Black Sabbath, Ozzy Osbourne, Slipknot, Judas Priest and AC/DC) and their songs are very recognizable in notmetal world. This bands perform at enormous stadiums, popular tv shows etc. Otherside, there's mainstream metal for metalheads (Slayer, Dio, Accept, Mayhem, Venom, Sepultura, Death, Manowar, Pantera etc) and their song are classics in metal world and some songs are just known by nonmetal people. Actually, there's the third side of mainstream metal- stereotypes about metal fashion and sound, based on 80's hair metal or jokes about death metal
I'd consider a metal band underground if they don't have a TH-cam video with more than 5,000 views. And similar numbers for other music sites.
It's a gray area... it could be both.. Underground to someone who has made a great discovery.
Mainstream when a band has been signed by a major recording label & has a video out
Srenia actually is a Gothic Power Metal Band
MTV Classic shows videos.... but we can't even get the channel on our cable system
I’ve seen a slayer music video on tv it was bloodline
Metal was as mainstream as it gets once it was called 'hair metal'
@NO BODY It depends on the band really, a lot of them were closer to rock than metal and vice versa
MtV showed both seasons in the abyss ( slayer) & Enter sandman & other metallica videos
its the same with punk you mention bands like the virus or the unseen most punks will know them same thing their known but are they well known
To answer your question, yes, you have already talked the Sirenia album. You gave mentioned it as neither a recommendation nor a warning; somehting in between.
For me metal is pretty much underground I have like 3 metalhead friends then I have like 10 friends who occasionally will listen to rock and maiden and ask me about metal. I went into zia records for music and the metal section has one half of an isle and a little pit near the end of the second one, that’s it and it’s a big store with like 6 rows of music or more so yeah in my opinion/ world metal is underground but that’s okay it’s not for everyone and that’s the point of metal it’s for the select few not the masses. 🤘
Great video love watching your stuff dude
While basically, no. There are a massive number of bands that are signed to a label (not sure which one(s)). Kinda recently happened too. There are a few bands that are VERY well known of course, but even still most of their "big" are the only known songs, most of the rest of their songs aren't known. I do like that it is underground, I feel it keeps it from being commercialized or affected like country has these days. Just because you have a music video on TH-cam and a record deal doesn't mean anything, anyone can upload anything.
I have punched people who've said shit like that.
Metal on Metal 🤘
My favourite underground old school Austrian death metal band is pungent stench
I watched the video where you mentioned serenia earlier today actually it's the one about posers
Metal fucking rocks
I’d call it niche rather than underground. Metal still has a dedicated fanbase depending on where you live. And I’d rather prefer it to be niche than to become mainstream.
Okay, now days there a lot bands from different parts of the words that many listen the main bands of the country, when some metal head goes more into the metal probably first choose is the style of metal, there are a bunch of styles of metal and from each generes there a lot more bands. I think depends of each metalhead and their tendencies to listen some kind of styles and the bands that into that style but always some more bands to know and listen their performance .
Woah! Nice Ratlord shirt mann!
I wouldn't be so quick to shit on Guitar Hero. For me, it was what got me into rock music when I was 12 which was obviously the gateway into metal. I'm sure as I'm an example, many other people got into rock music because of it.
In my eyes the underground died when the internet came along. Before that very few people knew about these bands and there was a level of exclusivity. Everything spread through word of mouth and writing letters/sending tapes. Now we have the internet, and you can find whatever the fuck you want with just a few google searches and you can keep up with everything that's going on with just a facebook or instagram account. So it's virtually impossible in my eyes for a band to be underground these days.
if you mention Amon Amarth to a Non-Metal Head. The person might think you are talking about The Lord Of The Rings books. The reason being amon amarth is another name for mount doom, the volcano in Mordor.
and this is probably the only place where they have heard the name Amon Amarth before. especially if they are a massive fan of J R R Tolkien. The same could be said for Carach Angren too.
Missed ya man, are you gonna do that jhofffilms collab, now that you’re back?
Just because a band is mainstream does not mean it has to be taboo to the avid metal listener to like them
Or what I run across a lot is I tell someone I love metal or hear me playing it at work and they be like “I like metal. Five Finger Death Punch is my favorite metal band.” 🤦♀️🤮
That's kind of been my experience: the only other metal fan I know of at work listed off a handful of his favorite bands assuming I've heard of them, including Five Finger Death Punch and... I don't know, Kid Rock or something, and when I told him I'd heard the names but had never heard any of the music he said "are you sure you're a metal fan? What do you listen to?" and I list off a handful of bands like Venom or Celtic Frost or Mercyful Fate, and he gave me an equally blank look.
Our other coworkers had never heard of any of the bands we were talking about, so I listed off a handful of bands that I figured everyone would recognize, like Twisted Sister, Motley Crue, Dio, and Black Sabbath, and at last with Black Sabbath found a band that everyone had heard of - and I was the only one who was familiar with more Sabbath songs than "Iron Man" and "Paranoid" ("Who is Black Sabbath?" "They're the Iron Man guys?" "Oh, yeah! They made the song for that movie? That's cool!")
So, even "mainstream metal" is pretty much "underground" in a world where mainstream audiences are lucky to recognize more than say Black Sabbath, Metallica, Iron Maiden, and AC/DC! (Though I have to agree to an extent with the commenter that opined that "underground" has lost much of its meaning in the internet era and in an age where any hipster worth his salt is familiar with one or two metal bands on some sort of "ironic" level!)
The punk rock guys have it even worse - watch the animated fun that ensues if you start a conversation with them about music, and pretend that punk rock began and ended with Green Day, The Offspring, Red Hot Chili Peppers, and Nirvana :D I doubt the casual observer would recognize even one punk rock band that a fan of the genre would respect - metal could probably fairly be considered "mainstream" by comparison!
'Underground' is today one of those largely meaningless terms like 'decadent'. Underground originally meant something that was illegal and therefor was only possible in dark basement rooms - the French Underground, for instance, was a resistance movement against the Nazis in WW II. The fact is that we, most of us, live in societies where we have enough freedom not to need to go 'underground' with metal. But imagine if you wanted to form a Satanist black metal band in Iran - ya might need to go underground with that.
Good vid BMW. What about looking into countries where metal is illegal and where metalheads are persecuted. North Korea and Iran come to mind and I'm sure there are other places where this is the case.
That bathory shirt makes me miss the bathory yellow goat boot I traded... 😕
Im wearing that shirt right now
I think most normal, and older people would probably know stuff like iron maiden, or Metallica. Maybe black Sabbath or slayer. But I think they'd have to be actual metalheads to know stuff like Bathory, Celtic frost, Darkthrone, or death.
Everyone and their grandma knows Cannibal Corpse. The real "underground" metal bands are the ones with less than 500 views on their home recorded EP, no record label and they play local shows. You'll never hear about them unless you see them play in your local bar, buy their DIY merch and home-made CD's lol. You could say the same thing about soundcloud/bandcamp, which is thriving with hungry and passionate underground artists with little fortune or fame.
Yeah when it comes to metal it's a little complicated.
Metal definitely has huge popular bands.. But even the biggest metal bands are only really known by name by the masses. Not a single person I know in real life listens to metal but they know some names. Some of them don't even know names..
The thing is, if you don't go looking for metal.. then you won't find metal! And the majority of people do not go looking for metal.
But it's the same for any genre, my friends are really into more modern popular music, and although the majority of people these days listen to that type of music... I don't really know any of it! I know some names but that's it. Because I don't go looking for that type of music so I don't find that type of music.
I would say metal is not mainstream, especially not in Gen Z
Fucking slayer!!!!!!!
Id say cancerslug is an example of underground, they have a very dedicated fanbase but its not too big, 98% of their shows are at small pay at the door venues so you have to follow them to know when they are playing. Really good band though
its hard to say metal is big and quite popular and recognizable subgenre but not to point where radio play last rammstein album (it is sooo fucking great)
They've played the new Rammstein songs on radio here in Norway :D
Answers: yes
Long answers: yeeeessssss
Underground = not well known
I saw the Seasons in the abyss video on MTV...a long time ago
I'm my city it is so fucking underground. I'm only one metalhead in my high school that contains people in radius of 30km.
Um did you say "terrible" when referring to guitar hero!?
I just recently came across a music video channel called Stingray Loud, I think. (If you have Bell.. :D)
its all grey. the general public thinks were underground. i have friends who are metalheads that have never heard of bands i consider to be mainstream. It's all perspective i think.
Dude you should make a vid with Jhoff films
I've seen too many kids in Metallica shirts that don't listen to Metallica at all
Serious metal is usually underground. More "nice" sounding metal is mainstream.
@NO BODY popular among metal-heads sure. I personally hate most metal that is more extreme than Slayer's debut album or "South of Heaven".
@@AliJr_MetalGames_MetalGuitar yeah we all have our taste. Personally I hate nothing more than Thrash and Slam.
Not true, arch enemy, amon amarth and behemoth are some of the biggest metal bands at the moment, and they're all considered extreme metal for the most part. I mean I find amon amarth and arch enemy a bit cheesy and they do have some kind of pop-ish melodies in them, but for the most part it's definitely extreme metal.
@@RisingSun96 still screaming makes it inaccessible to majority of the population.
Anyone could listen to Metallica or Iron Maiden
Ali Jr. Yeah true maybe Megadeth too you could say?
It’s mainstream for metal though, that’s what I was getting at.