Avoid this MISTAKE in Luminar NEO! Correct Editing Order!
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 11 พ.ค. 2024
- Does the order in which we apply editing tools in Luminar Neo affect the end result? Let's find out! You can get Luminar Neo discounted here: bit.ly/Luminar-NEO Using code ATNEO10
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Every time they send out those questionnaires about what features I would like to see in future updates, I ask for edit reordering. It's extremely frustrating that such a basic feature isn't here yet
I recently met with Luminar's chief tech who explained why it's not as simple as you might think... I may cover it in a video
@@AnthonyTurnham If you can, I'd like to see a video on that, please
@@AnthonyTurnham It is as simple as @ninjatogo thinks, because it was in the original iteration of Luminar 2018, as well as luminar 3, if I am remembering correctly.
You could reorder at any time, much faster than how slow Neo is.
There's really no excuse on their behalf.
THANKS (a big thanks) for this and all your other videos ... having the "Whys" along with the "Hows" is well done and appreciated
My pleasure! Thanks for the feedback. Yeah, I too love to understand the why's behind things.
Hi Anthony as I have just purchased Luminar ( 2 days ago ) this was really helpful to learn in the early stages , have subed and looking forward to watching many more of your videos . Thanks Pete Western Australia
Great info! I think I had seen an earlier version of one of your edit videos and you had talked a bit about this and that's how I started to do all my edits. And for the most part, I am following your guidelines, except for the vignette tool placement. I'll now end with that if it needs it. But I wasn't too far off really.
This sort of content is very helpful to me!
What an eye-opener!! Great video Anthony. After watching this, I went back and redid a couple of edits based on your suggestion. In one case, the difference as was really marginal, but in the other example, the difference was alarming. Keep 'em coming - well done.
Hey Anthony! It will be great to add a PDF doc. containing the correct editing order.
i second this recommendation which is especially needed since the correct order is not on the screen without a TH-cam tag for another of your wonderful vids thus a screenshot is not doable. thumbs up.
Had this exact question while editing today. Perfect timing for me. Thanks.
Anthony, thanks for this. I seem to have generally got the order correct except for one. I always added Enhance Ai last instead of first, but usually only if I felt the photo needed it. I've now printed out your suggested order and stuck it in front of my monitor.
Thank you for the helpful information. Never thought the order would make a difference. I may have to go back and change the order on some previous edits to see if it improves.
nice thanks!! I have my order to do things too really similar that I learned the hard way hahah, I will love to be able to move / resort edits too...
What a great recommendation. I was not aware of this. Thank you Anthony.
WOW! What a wake up call... thanks for doing this.
SO helpful!! I love your videos, Anthony!
Glad you like them!
Nice demo. I too was surprised how well Neo held up with the "wrong" order tools.
Thanks for that Anthony. I have long advocated a set order of processing, but have never done the trials which you have shown us. It's quite incredible (terrifying) what a difference it can make. I shall place even more emphasis on the order of play when teaching my students.
Hey Anthony! A really great video ... and I actually didn´t know that and haven´t tried it yet. Thanks for that 😉!
Happy to help!
Thank you Anthony! This is very good information.
I never thought much about the order of applying the edits, but it totally makes sense. Thanks for doing the hard work for us! I've copied your list into a picture I'll put on my desktop for reference. Hopefully this helps me avoid doing things that denigrate my photos. :)
Very helpful, thank you
Very helpful. Thanks.
Nicely explained. Thanks Tony.
Thank you Anthony - I've been finding Luminar Neo a bit confusing lately as it's added more features but this gives me a great basis to take a breath and start afresh.
Thank you ! This was an eye opener !
Very informative. Thank you.
Thanks Anthony always great info 👍
Excellent Anthony, thank you.
Thank you, Anthony. Always learning new things.
Hi Anthony, stumbled across your channel a couple of weeks ago and I am enjoying your videos immensely! They also pushed me to finally decide and get myself Luminar Neo, so thank you for the nudge! Keep the good stuff coming!
Awesome video, thank you
Thank you!
Thanks Anthony! It is SO helpful to see editing over the top as you did to make your point.
This video is so important ! Longtime overdue! Congratulations !
Very intuitive, Anthony ... super helpful! Many thanks!
Thank you so much
Great video, thanks
Thank you very informative
Anthony Thank you for sharing great information
Indeed, so incredibly helpful and useful for sure
great really appreciate the advice
Another excellent video. Thanks Anthony. I often wondered about this workflow issue.
That’s very valuable, thank you
Another great video again Anthony, well done. I will follow these steps and fingers crossed my photos will look great.
THANKS! Pretty much what I've kind of guessed out, but I've never taken the time to think about WHY.
Great, very well done.
Real clarity and warnings here. So many thanks for the recommendations!
Wow! Thanks for your hard work to be able to show the differences.
Good observation. Hope Luminar will eventually allow adjusting/moving the sequence of the tools as an option for users
This is so helpful!!! Thank you so much!!!
Thank you Anthony. Made a lot of sense! I would have loved to get a copy of the 7 (or 8) steps in a list in your comments though. Great job overall.
agree -- a .rtf file linked in the original text message of all tutorials would be easy to do and offer to viewers. Personally, I feel the a straighten and crop at the beginning of the edit is a good idea but I know that there will be debate. Also, I also love to do a quick single image HDR to just see where one can go and maybe the areas the might wish to have adjustments during the edit process. Also, does the order make a difference if editing an original .jpg rather than a RAW image? Just a few thoughts and questions.
Thank you Anthony very informative. This is information which I was not aware of.
👍Nicely explained.
Great stuff. Keep up the good work. I enjoy watching your videos.
Thanks, will do!
Hi Anthony, Is it possible to get a screenshot of your last slide showing the order of steps you recommend, all on one age. Great work as usual and explained in such a clear concise manner
Nice idea, I'll see about a pdf...
Brilliant explanation. Really helpful. Many thanks.
I wrote it down and will try it out. THANKS!!!
Really useful and important video, thanks Anthony.
I always think it's a shame that the enhanced AI doesn't use develop raw data as surely it would be more powerful if it did.
Thanks!
Thanks Thomas!
As always a very professional, pragmatic and helpful video. Thank you.
very good to know
Awesome as always mate. I found a lot of this to be second nature to me - your recommended workflow was was I had been doing - with one MAJOR exception: Contrast - I have been adjusting my contrast as well as playing with highlights & shadows at the beginning of my (Post develop RAW) workflow. I look forward to implementing your recommended workflow and see if that helps. Thanks again mate.
Thanks interesting
very interesting
Hi again Anthony, I first joined Luminar back in the Luminar 4 days as I was very new to photography and didn't understand layers in Photoshop. I now can use layers but still wonder when to use the and when not to. Could you do a tutorial on this outlining the pros and cons of layers, the traps not to fall into, and when it is best to use layers and when not to. I still wonder if I should do some of my edits on layers or not. Thx, I always enjoy your videos. Robyn
It's more simple than you'd think. If you're wondering if you should use a layer then it's likely the answer is no. Unless you have a specific reason such as compositing or a layer with a blend mode, avoid layers and use tools with masks on the base layer only. Hope that helps
Great advice, thanks. At what point in the sequence would you recommend to do sky replacement?
Early on, after develop raw and making the photo technically sound, but before any creative work.
Yes good tips follow the normal raw edit first always! except do not automatically click the defringe tool and chromatic aberation tool when editing these tools do not work and WARNING TO ALL NEO USERS the chromatic aberation removal tool added more aberation than was already there on my original image yes thats right added aberation not remove! My suggestion is get yourself dxo pure raw or another raw editor and use neo just for flashy stuff if thats your thing.
Excellent analysis. Another commenter had recommended applying supercontrast prior to Enhance AI. I guess I'll need to do my own comparison in the same methodical way that you demonstrated.
Yep, sure. I'm not saying that there is only one correct way to apply the tools I just want people to be aware there is a potential for different results depending on the order and to make informed decisions as they edit.
Thanks Anthony, so helpful. It reminds me how little I understand about what is actually happening when I apply edits.
Just a question about hardware. My little laptop really struggles with some functions like cloning. Any advice on the minimum computer specs for smooth operation of Neo?
Hmmm... yeah they do have a minimum specs page on their website, but tbh you want to be maxing your RAM memory and getting as fast processor as you can afford. The graphics card isn't as important for 2D editing as most people think. If your budget permits running luminar and your photos from an m.2 ssd is also a nice improvement over traditional hard drives or basic SSDs.
Brilliant! Thankyou for this... I came on here to look up this topic as I was falling foul of this very problem. It is serendipitous that you have put up this video only a few hours before I looked.. You must have heard my thoughts. :^)
A quick follow-up question - if you forget something in the Develop Raw section before applying all the other tools, can you correct it by going into the the EDIT section and then using Develop Raw there? I wonder if changes there in the Edit section has a knock-on effect on the other tools.
Keep up the good work!
Yes
You can go back to re edit the raw tool lower in the stack.
@@AnthonyTurnham before using other tools however if I understand you and others correctly. Hope I am not misunderstanding the process but let me know please.
Thank you. Where in editing flow do presets and LUTS fall? Are they non-destructive, destructive or both?
All depends with presets what's being applied. But effectively it's throwing a load of tools over the top of your photo so it's subject to these effects.
Luts are just a "filter" manipulating colour and tone. They will affect subsequent tools for sure and should be used towards the very end of the process. Usually as a last touch
Great tips as usual, Anthony. I'm watching this on an 11" Chromebook screen, and a lot of the differences aren't that noticeable after the TH-cam compression. One comment: I find that if I use a preset, it discards my manual edits. Sometimes I can go back into the editing stack and make changes to the base Develop RAW tool, if it was used in the preset. If not, then I guess I'm out of luck?
as I recall, there are a few tutorials related to Luminar that suggests doing presets first as what you have found is normal for the program.
Yes, it's a bit of a shame how this works. But it's the same with most programs and how the presets work. Lightroom does have the ability to pick and choose which tools are added to the preset and which are excluded. This allows for individual edits to remain intact if you apply a preset that targets other tools. I'd love Neo to introduce this feature. For now though a workflow option is to export your "technical edits" (ie edits that aim for authenticity, good exposure, good colour balance and good dynamic range) and then have a second version where you can apply a preset to your already adjusted file.
Hope that makes sense....
@@AnthonyTurnham That's a good idea, Anthony. I've been just going into the Edit stack and trying to tweak it to my liking. The main thing I'm after is the camera profile and a few other basic Develop edits. After learning about the importance of profiles from you, that's the first thing I do in every edit!
I realize there are no hard and fast rules, but do you do Enhance AI before making changes in the regular Devope module AFTER you do the Develop Raw changes? Of course, Develop Raw has to be the first adjustment you make. It seems like Enhance AI should be the #2 adjustment and then go from there. That's pretty much how I've been doing my edits. Maybe one day you could do a video on how to enhance B&W photography as I've just gotten into B&W with my IR dedicated camera. Off to Greenland next week! Thanks again Anthony for another great video.
Evening (from here in the UK) - great work as usual. I never fail to learn something useful when I watch your videos. Just a quick question (and I'm sorry if I've missed it in the comments) - when would you apply Noise Reduction? I have always treated RAW develop and Noise reduction as a pair - mainly as they are paired together at the start the entire process. Is this the correct assumption?
For the way I work, it depends on the level of noise. If the file really needs help then I'll hit it as a first step paired with dev raw. Otherwise I may just use a light pass of non-AI noise correction at some point.
@@AnthonyTurnham thanks for that. I'm a novice photographer in a lot of ways. Many thanks for the advice
Thanks for this beautiful tutorial
One question.. if i go to layer properties...i see only Opacity sider..do i miss anything? Any idea how to erase or blend and modify other layers?
Yes there should be more. Do a search on my channel homepage for "layers" and you'll find a few vids you should find helpful about using blend modes etc.
Is this issue of the raw edits first, and then the pixel based (destrctive) edits coming later true in apps like Lightroom classic and ON1 Photo Raw as well?
Would your recommendations be valid for a non-RAW photo?
Yes
Thanks Anthony. Another eye opener. But, doesn’t this mean that Luminar’s claims of non destructive editing is somewhat overstated. I use both Luminar and ON1, the latter i think maintains non destructive editing throughout the editing process. Kind regards.
Luminar has many pixel level creative tools that by their very nature move away from the raw pixels. As soon as this happens its impossible to maintain a raw editing workflow. However the original file remains in tact. You can always remove tools and step back in the edit so from that point of view there is no actual file destruction, so strictly speaking it's non-destructive.
If you stick to the raw develop which is pretty much all lightroom offers then in Neo too you're still in a completely non-destructive workflow.
In my wildlife photography with high ISO, I first send my photos to Topaz photo AI for Denise and sharpening. The file comes back as a DNG and I am able then to use develop raw to get correct exposure, white balance etc. Any thoughts on this work flow and the problems you encountered in this video?
Sounds like a good approach. There are so many workflow approaches and I use different ones depending on the genre I'm editing. If this is working for you, then stick with it :)
This is critical information. Does the same apply to On1, LR/PS, C1, etc.?
No, not in Lightroom or Capture 1. Depends which On1 program you're referring to, and yes as you build layers and tools in photoshop it's also subject to these effects of changing orders. Some are more pronounced than others.
@@AnthonyTurnham Thank you for your reply. I guess that this consideration is rather specific to Neo.
So should I not use it as a plugin bcs files are TIFF or tiff files are fine? (Considering your work order)
It works fine with tiffs and jpegs too you just need to be aware of the order thingy. Usually activating it as a plugin you will already have done some type of raw develop in lr or ps etc so you'll be fine. I often use Neo this way.
@@AnthonyTurnham 🫡🫡
thank you for the effort and sharing. i am an appreciative subscriber. perhaps you can put the correct order on the screen and hold for a few seconds longer. this is especially needed since the correct order is not on the screen without a TH-cam tag for another of your wonderful vids thus a screenshot is not doable. thumbs up.
I'll see about making a pdf.
Just travelling at the moment so it's hard to get around to any proper work.
But, can such a difference be avoided by using masking of the regions that we want to edit?
You'll get the same effect, just appearing where you've masked. The logic behind what's going on will be the same regardless.
@@AnthonyTurnham Thanks
This just unsold me on neo, ill stick with lightroom, all raw edits for me
Very interesting. This does not happen with Lightroom i think.
You're right. But don't forget lightroom's toolset is just manipulating raw data. When Neo works in raw develop which is akin to lightroom's toolset it also remains non destructive.
It's just that Neo's mote creative tools have to work on a pixel level
Hi Anthony, Very useful to know which edits to do first - thanks. 😺 From Felix the Cat. 😺 By the way, did you get my E-mail? 😺
Hi. I'm actually not in the office. I'm taking a month off for travel and to see my parents. I also got to meet the Skylum team. Bloody good folk actually! This vid and the next one were recorded before I left.
So no sorry I haven't had a chance to log in to that email yet.
Hmm I have to disagree with you on one point - Luminar Neo is not doing destructive editing because it never alters the original file or saves over it. All the edits are in the catalog or database and you can always go back or revert to the original. Unlike Photoshop for example, if you open a raw file, use Develop raw, then open that as a JPG and apply any edits directly to that JPG like curves, etc - how you're doing destructive editing.
Yeah, I get your point and I could have elaborated on exactly what I meant but kinda just glossed over it in the vid. To break it down there's two ways to look at whether or not something is editing "destructively". The first and most simple way is can I return to my original state, and if the answer is yes then and my file is still in tact then the editing is non-destructive. If that's our criteria then yes 100% Neo is a non-destructive editor. But I look at it in a slightly different way, from the perspective of am I losing data as my edit evolves. So in Lightroom for example, I could boost my exposure to +5 and blow out everything. BUT I could then add a curves adjustment that recovers that data. This isn't possible in Luminar. Each subsequent tool bakes a new iteration of pixel data that is the base point for the edit from there on. That's what I'm referring to when I said it was destructive.
On another note. Thanks for watching Darlene, and also commenting with a thoughtful response. I appreciate it and appreciate what you do on the tube too x Best regards, Anthony 😀
@@AnthonyTurnham Thanks so much for noticing my little channel LOL. As for your point about Luminar - well, yes you can go back and recover it later because the Develop Raw tool is always at the bottom of the edits and you can go back there in the history and alter the settings and get it back. So... LOL
I must be stupid, you always lose me early on. Lookup table? Colour grading/Toning? When it comes to editing I'm clueless. Thanks for the order at the end, I'm doing the raw edit 1st which you said is the correct thing to do, thanks
😅 stupid? Not at all. Everyone's at different levels and you only know what you know. I've been photo editing for 30 years so I kinda take some things for granted, but at one point I didn't know an f stop from a bus stop 😆