Good initial trial Phil. I think the another very important issue is the seat positioning. Only one of the BBMF pilots would be able to help position you correctly in the seat with your correct eye point . Pilots always adjust themselves to get the exact same eye position , crucial for landings and formation flying. This same eye point is what you need to set in the sim . Also a full 3D scan of the cockpit layout would be an awesome use of the technology and provide unparalleled accuracy. Get all the controls and instruments in the exact correct relative position from a fixed datum point. Then at home adjust your seat to get the same eye position , then in the VR sim adjust to match the same eye position.
@@AuthentiKit also forward and backward . In most pro flight simulators/airliners/military aircraft, at the start of the first sim session , setting the students seating position , is taught to get their correct eye position , afterwards they do this themselves each time they get into the seat .
That would be great if you could do it. Not sure how to relate that information back to the home cockpit user, but that's another issue. As you say, in an airline simulator, and in fact in a real A320, (probably others too) there is a little set of plastic spheres in the centre windscreen frame that you use to line up your eye point by moving the seat.
This video, and the measurements contained therein, are invaluable. As the discussion has shown, though, there are a number of "datums" (is that the plural of datum?) from which one can measure. However, whichever you choose, in the end, it will always only be a starting point. The real proof in this pudding is how well things match up once you're in VR.
I found I had to have the control stick further into my legs in order to reach the rudder pedals (I am only 5ft.6in.) Luckily, you barely move the stick and she will turn or dive rapidly. On takeoff, we had the stick right back of course.. Thanks for the measurements! The smell on landing is marvelous also btw...
I didn't see this vid when assembling my cockpit. at 6'7" all of these matters related to pedal distance and the length of the monitor arm. Left leg extended on the left pedal needs to clear the arm for the Spade grip. That determines the height you can place the Spade at. I lowered the monitor Arm for the spade as much as possible till it just cleared the top of my ankle/top of foot. After that the down pole is set, angles determine where you end up with the 27mm pole for the throttles and trims. You can lower or raise the 27MM pole but the proximity is determined by the placement of the pedals and spade grip. I bought the Mount-It stand and added in every segment from the unused monitor arm so a total of 5 segments in order to get the spade back far enough for full throws and clearance. conclusion: Spitfire is not made for 6'7" pilots... but Authentikit build can accommodate tall people!
You've completely ignored that the fore/aft beam visible at 11:15 which has the chassis lever attached is the aircraft datum point. All vertical measurements are taken from it. Same on the port side where it also forms the top of the entry that the door hinges to.
Hi, yes I've done previous measurements from datum points and longerons but I always found it confusing recreating positions relative to my chair & legs so thought I'd try it this way.
@@AuthentiKit but the whole point is the chair is adjustable and thus can't be used as a datum... You need to measure the range of movement of the (real) seat relative to the (real) datum. All the controls can be easily placed according to the datum measurements, the hard part is matching your actual chair to the same position as MSFS or DCS places it...(your view point)
I hear you. I guess i’m thinking more of the basic AuthentiKit situation where the cockpit isn’t set up and fixed, but controls are on articulated arms and people are using regular chairs. If you roll your chair in and pivot the controls towards you i feel this might still be useful as a kind of good enough approach. That’s what i have and do. Less useful i agree for someone who has built a fixed cockpit and fixed controls.
I want to do that in a P47 cockpit. Would be super cool. I have been trying to peace together where things are from drawings but so far it's nearly impossible unless you want to redraw every part in cad and put together. While it may not be practical because of stuff in the way and leaning in to a cocpit is not ideal. I think I would try to measure out the seat. Then use say the bottom of the seat back as a reference point. As you can then refer your seat at home to it. Maybe have a stick of a set length up against the seat back, so them sit on it. Get it sqair and cental to the overall pit, then measure from the tip to the parts. It's not an easy task. The alternative may be to do from VR. So you put you hand where the control should be. Then lift the headset and adjust the position. And repeat until its about right. So jealous of being able sit in there though.
I agree, it may all be irrelevant if the whole point is to make it work in VR because I'm assuming the VR cockpit is 100% and not scaled/skewed so a calibration to the VR cockpit may be best in the end
Could the authentikit work with the new Next Level Boeing edition sim pits? Which come with various attachment, however obv your mounting brackets would not work so alternative ways to connect would be required. It would be superb if possible as being able to set a fixed standardised baseline for most people on relative positioning (plus I want to buy one of them for other crafts too but there lies a problem if wanted to set up for a spitfire instead)
Well Phil, it's just coincidence that I'm watching your videos on the same day I found out about the tragic death of Sqdn. Ldr. Mark Long at RAF Conningsby on the 25th May, in the crash of I what believe is the same Spitfire - MK356. It'll be a while before we find out what happened. I can't imagine what you feel. Be OK.
@@AuthentiKitYet, the corner made by the jonction of the seat pan and the seat backrest should be the same, regardless of the chair type you use, in order to respect the aircraft genuine dimension. I'm 6ft, 260lbs. Even though I can't back out my seat in the real aircraft, I probably will on my chair. Just my 2¢.
You guys are fantastic, doing all this work. Thank you, Love it😁
Very Cool. I think ultimately a 3d scan would be the pinnacle of accuracy and accessibility to answer nearly every question for each plane.
definitively
Good initial trial Phil. I think the another very important issue is the seat positioning. Only one of the BBMF pilots would be able to help position you correctly in the seat with your correct eye point . Pilots always adjust themselves to get the exact same eye position , crucial for landings and formation flying. This same eye point is what you need to set in the sim . Also a full 3D scan of the cockpit layout would be an awesome use of the technology and provide unparalleled accuracy. Get all the controls and instruments in the exact correct relative position from a fixed datum point. Then at home adjust your seat to get the same eye position , then in the VR sim adjust to match the same eye position.
Thanks. Yes, very good point. We’re talking height adjustment only here are we?
@@AuthentiKit also forward and backward . In most pro flight simulators/airliners/military aircraft, at the start of the first sim session , setting the students seating position , is taught to get their correct eye position , afterwards they do this themselves each time they get into the seat .
That would be great if you could do it. Not sure how to relate that information back to the home cockpit user, but that's another issue. As you say, in an airline simulator, and in fact in a real A320, (probably others too) there is a little set of plastic spheres in the centre windscreen frame that you use to line up your eye point by moving the seat.
This video, and the measurements contained therein, are invaluable. As the discussion has shown, though, there are a number of "datums" (is that the plural of datum?) from which one can measure. However, whichever you choose, in the end, it will always only be a starting point. The real proof in this pudding is how well things match up once you're in VR.
I found I had to have the control stick further into my legs in order to reach the rudder pedals (I am only 5ft.6in.) Luckily, you barely move the stick and she will turn or dive rapidly.
On takeoff, we had the stick right back of course..
Thanks for the measurements! The smell on landing is marvelous also btw...
Glad you’re enjoying it!
I didn't see this vid when assembling my cockpit. at 6'7" all of these matters related to pedal distance and the length of the monitor arm. Left leg extended on the left pedal needs to clear the arm for the Spade grip. That determines the height you can place the Spade at. I lowered the monitor Arm for the spade as much as possible till it just cleared the top of my ankle/top of foot. After that the down pole is set, angles determine where you end up with the 27mm pole for the throttles and trims. You can lower or raise the 27MM pole but the proximity is determined by the placement of the pedals and spade grip. I bought the Mount-It stand and added in every segment from the unused monitor arm so a total of 5 segments in order to get the spade back far enough for full throws and clearance. conclusion: Spitfire is not made for 6'7" pilots... but Authentikit build can accommodate tall people!
Fantastic! Great to know that my unusual rig mounting system works even for the very tall.
You've completely ignored that the fore/aft beam visible at 11:15 which has the chassis lever attached is the aircraft datum point. All vertical measurements are taken from it. Same on the port side where it also forms the top of the entry that the door hinges to.
Hi, yes I've done previous measurements from datum points and longerons but I always found it confusing recreating positions relative to my chair & legs so thought I'd try it this way.
@@AuthentiKit but the whole point is the chair is adjustable and thus can't be used as a datum...
You need to measure the range of movement of the (real) seat relative to the (real) datum.
All the controls can be easily placed according to the datum measurements, the hard part is matching your actual chair to the same position as MSFS or DCS places it...(your view point)
I hear you. I guess i’m thinking more of the basic AuthentiKit situation where the cockpit isn’t set up and fixed, but controls are on articulated arms and people are using regular chairs. If you roll your chair in and pivot the controls towards you i feel this might still be useful as a kind of good enough approach. That’s what i have and do. Less useful i agree for someone who has built a fixed cockpit and fixed controls.
I want to do that in a P47 cockpit. Would be super cool.
I have been trying to peace together where things are from drawings but so far it's nearly impossible unless you want to redraw every part in cad and put together.
While it may not be practical because of stuff in the way and leaning in to a cocpit is not ideal. I think I would try to measure out the seat. Then use say the bottom of the seat back as a reference point. As you can then refer your seat at home to it. Maybe have a stick of a set length up against the seat back, so them sit on it. Get it sqair and cental to the overall pit, then measure from the tip to the parts. It's not an easy task.
The alternative may be to do from VR. So you put you hand where the control should be. Then lift the headset and adjust the position. And repeat until its about right.
So jealous of being able sit in there though.
I agree, it may all be irrelevant if the whole point is to make it work in VR because I'm assuming the VR cockpit is 100% and not scaled/skewed so a calibration to the VR cockpit may be best in the end
Very cool 😎
Could the authentikit work with the new Next Level Boeing edition sim pits? Which come with various attachment, however obv your mounting brackets would not work so alternative ways to connect would be required. It would be superb if possible as being able to set a fixed standardised baseline for most people on relative positioning (plus I want to buy one of them for other crafts too but there lies a problem if wanted to set up for a spitfire instead)
Join our Discord and we can work something out. We’ve got a guy working on a yaw 2 mounting system.
Very clever.
Planning on making some mounting system for the Next level racing flight cockpit? Think it would be pretty cool if it is possible
I suspect someone will. Ask in our Discord as people are adapting them for all setups
Hi, thanks its possible in the future make some of this measurements in the P51 or P47? Thanks
I'll ask someone in our Discord.
Well Phil, it's just coincidence that I'm watching your videos on the same day I found out about the tragic death of Sqdn. Ldr. Mark Long at RAF Conningsby on the 25th May, in the crash of I what believe is the same Spitfire - MK356. It'll be a while before we find out what happened. I can't imagine what you feel. Be OK.
Yes, it is very sad news. Mark took an active interest in the sim and we were all looking forward to him being the next OC of the BBMF.
In my opinion, all the measurements should've been taken relative to the seat, not from someone body parts.
You could be right. Not sure if it would make things better or worse though depending on the type of chair people might use at home.
@@AuthentiKitYet, the corner made by the jonction of the seat pan and the seat backrest should be the same, regardless of the chair type you use, in order to respect the aircraft genuine dimension. I'm 6ft, 260lbs. Even though I can't back out my seat in the real aircraft, I probably will on my chair. Just my 2¢.
@@morkbov thanks. I’ve had some good feedback on this video, yours included. I’ll give some thought to a follow up.
shouldnt measure off of yourself, its ok for reference but material to material reference points are going to be a better way to go.
I agree. I still find it useful though for a quick check.