New BTO Classification: Will My HDB Flat Be More Affordable? - Forum | Talking Point | Full Episode
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 2 มิ.ย. 2024
- Build-to-Order (BTO) flats in Singapore will be reclassified as “Standard”, “Plus” and “Prime” flats, from the second half of 2024. This would replace the existing “mature” and “non-mature” labels. What does this mean to you? And how far can it make our flats more affordable? Steven Chia brings your questions on homeownership affordability, BTO wait times, and housing aspirations of Singaporeans to his panel of experts, in a special Talking Point Forum.
00:00 Introduction
02:22 Will this new model push HDB prices up instead of bringing them down?
06:20 Is the wait to get a HDB flat too long?
11:52 Should resale flat sales be regulated by HDB?
17:22 Will HDB flat prices continue to rise?
19:13 Why are HDB flats getting smaller?
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Thanks to Steve Chia for asking the difficult questions and Nicholas for pointing out the REAL issues, he really knows the ground. As for the authorities who insist that smaller area is acceptable with creative words, i hope you are speaking with your conscience
👍 23:34
A person with conscience won't say such nasty things in the first place. That person is still enjoying million dollar paycheck while we are sufferring these ground level issues. Btw, if you have voted for PAP, don't complain.
When govt say "affordable" it means you have to be in debt almost your entire life oncw committed to a property. Back in 80's my father paid off home loan within 12 years on a 3-room HDB at AMK that's less than 40k, working as a telephone operator in a hospital.
A topic like this deserves more in-depth discussion. A 20-minute episode only creates more unanswered questions
Nicholas Mak is totally spot on on the issues that MND or government misses out.
i wish to highlight that new HDB houses usable space is actually SMALLER than stated size due to the bigger toilets, bomb shelters, walkways to rooms & aircon ledges. Other than HDB stopped building new 5 room flats in good locations, the smaller than stated units motivates/ pushes home buyers to purchase a bigger hdb (5 room flat or older hdbs) which cause the resale prices to hyper escalate during covid period where everyone needs a space immediately construction delay worsen it .
The only probably way to regulate prices in a long run is to build more than enough HDB flats, store it away from market and releasing it on years that has higher demand. It not only stabilise the prices , lower construction cost in a long run, reduce waiting times and allow families to plan earlier for kids hopefully to alleviate the low birth rates. Its the exact same principle on how our government have been doing on the land (being the only land banker in singapore), food security (rice) and important commodities such as oil.
But at the end of the day it is unlikely to happen as an increasing property price work best for Singapore as a nation so that its population is 1) tied down as part of its total defence and 2) having high continuous productivity due to higher and longer mortgages.
These are not houses these are leasehold public FLATS .
Well done Nicolas for bringing up a ton of valid points that might have been a blindspot to the authorities. I am quite surprised to hear the Deputy CEO of the architectural firm saying the Living Room space is much more visible now compared to before. When I look at at my Mum's old 4A Model HDB and my own EC Unit, her Living Room is easily the size of my Living Room + 1 Bedroom + 1 Kitchen! They somehow forgotten that these days, the Floor Area are many a times eaten up by the Air Con Ledge, which doesnt come into consideration in the past.
actually the oldest HDBs are smaller than our modern HDBs. Take homes built before 1975, the 4 room flats can be as small as 82 sqm, and the 3 rooms 56sqm. Our current 4 room hdb internal floor space is 90-91sqm and 65sqm for 3 room.
Oh come on. It's not a blind spot. The only reason they always use is space constrains. What "visibility" is bullshit. Since about 20 years ago or maybe even longer before they have effectively stopped making bigger flats and selling them at astronomical prices. And all the reasons that supposedly drive up the demand suspiciously follow the model of our now famous "grab"....with different parameters of course
Gotta give it to some people can paint bullshit to make them seem like a pot of gold
Agreed. You can see how disconnected the authorities are, justifying smaller houses with per capita without considering the practicality of living in smaller constraints.
Simple....
Ask the Deputy CEO and his family and all those in higher mgt to live inside one of the 3 or 4 room visible spaces for 5 - 10 years. Then they will know how it feels like. A scheme of such nature should be implemented in all sectors, such as housing, transport, utilities, etc for all in higher mgt with them having the salary of an average sporean household for at least 5 - 10 years. They will not be lost from the ground then.
Wow, Nicholas is good, I can see uncomfortable reactions from authorities who cannot justify their justification..
It's great to have Nicholas Mak in the panel, he really pointed out the pertinent issues. Newer HDB flats are getting smaller (with poorer design layout imo) and yet much more expensive. It does not make logical sense at all for those ministers to justify building smaller and smaller HDB flats when they themselves are living in GCBs and not even staying in such small HDB flats.
I am glad that Nicholas bought up the point that singles are falling through the crack. Being true blue Singaporean, we have always been loyal to our country and contributed equally if not more. Some of us may have sacrifice for our elderly parents as caregivers and was "forced" to remain single by circumstances. However, our need to have our own space and additional space to rent out to fund our retirement is not look into for so many years. There's couples who choose to not have kids but earn a lot from their properties deals. I just hope that the govt can see our needs and grant us the opportunity to buy at least a 3 rm BTO without discrimination.
Might as well ask for 4 or 5rm...You little greedy young man. Single is lucky enough to have the option to buy a 2rm flat. Previously Single cannot even ballot for 2rm ! You want 3rm ?? Wait long long or go find a REAL Girlfren and settle down and married seriously and from there whatever room also you can apply...LOL
Basically govt is punishing singles for not getting married and squeezing out a kid or 2 so that when they grow up they will be 2-legged cows for the govt to harvest every month(CPF contribution) and once a year(income tax)
Born and bred S'poreans who are single should be entitled to min 3-room BTO, not 2-room.
I am single and got my Yishun 4A HDB 104sqm 6years ago for 370k. Never regretted this decision. F**k BTO.
I support that couples with no kids should have all their subsidies clawback and get heavier levies when they sell their hdbs... seen so many of these dinks
CNA should do more of such content. More indepth discussions would be great.
Removing the category won't change what made them mature or not mature in the first place so the higher demand in those areas will not change meaning those units will still command a higher price. the new category just adds another reason to up the price. now nearer to mrt in non mature estates can up price even more.
Henry say, 99 lease to build community. HAHAHA but then:
Joanne say, people who don't have kids or only 1 kid etc don't need 5 room flat at the time and 5 room flat should be reserved for those who need it.
Michael say, they design to be flexible to combine rooms or add rooms to cater to the changing needs of the family.
First: combine or add rooms still don't change the fact that the unit is smaller for the price, what you going to do... eat the next door unit? So what we are seeing is actually shrinkflation!
Joanne and Michael basically have the mindset that "people should buy what they need first and keep moving from location to location as their needs evolve" which is nothing wrong by itself but it goes against the aim of building community that henry and michael has both stated the longer lease is better for. Also its assuming that people don't plan in advance their life and that people can afford to do the constant upgrading in this crazy resale market....
Nicholas is making a good point, Michael make the space per capita argument but which causes which? HDB building smaller units cos family units are getting smaller or is it smaller and more expensive units cause smaller family units?
Exactly. So do they want people to buy flats to stay for the rest of their lifetimes, or they want people to keep buying, selling and moving every 5 to 10 years? I can tell you the latter is extremely disruptive especially if you are raising a family.
First, this is CNA. Second, you want other views, look at what opp is suggesting.
Henry didn't even answer why are the new houses getting smaller 😂
no space. Bigger houses mean fewer units/flats, no?
@@glen7k621
NOBODY insisted the Goverment to increase the population to 10 million. They are doing it at the expence of the quality of Life for Singaporeans when homes gets smaller.
@@glen7k621 Can't you build taller
For 4 room flat 90m2 vs 84m2(average) in 80s. 90s : 100m2(average). 2000s:90m2. Is it getting that small? No. but compare to 4NG(old 91m2) It feel smaller due to long hallway. Kitchen is "smaller" cause it has been divided to two parts.
Part of the floor area includes unusable areas like aircon ledge and certain riser.
Feel like only a half-way through discussion. This topic is everyone real concern so the episode should be longer, I wish.
True, a topic that has to be debated more for awareness and possible reforms in the schemes involved.
Nicholas makes a lot of good points! Those bullshit by some deputy CEO about space per capita being consistent. A smaller flat is a smaller flat, why justify with some nonsense ?
Does HDB or government recognised that young adults are forming families much later now because of lack of an affordable HDB flat? Late marriages means lower birth rates!
that's fine. That's why we are giving away more citizenship to foreigners.
Their inaction shows that they are completely clueless although this isn't a new issue that just came up.
Its affordable. With loan
You locals refuse to get married, give birth, they bring FTs rubber stamp them to new citizens and these kinds breed loh. To the PAP, after all the baby bonus have been given and you locals still hiam and complain not enough, they bring in the FTs loh!
So eithier you locals breed or the new citizebs do so!😆😆😆
@@glen7k621exactly.
I can't thank CNA enough on these insightful, important, yet not easily available information to the masses.
Great content put out in recent months! Keep it up please!
It still dont solve the problem, construction takes 3-5 years. MOP takes 10 years. Effective locked-in period 15 years, and anything can happen (family, financially, members passed away) in such as long locked-in.
But this is really a good debate, hearing views from different guest, govt and private, can feel the intensity of the objectives brought across.
Public house should not be use to sell for profit.
Hdb needs to stop charging levy to seniors downsizing to flexi flats. We are releasing bigger flats to families or singles looking for 2 or 3 room flats. Plus seniors who are not wealthy need cash for retirement. Plus often we have spouse or other older family members to support as well. By slapping us wuth levy, govt is not supporting down sizing. Every 10k we save is impt to us for medical, bills, a better old age. Does hdb need the 10 to 30 k in levy from old people who are not wealthy?
As someone that tried 5 times and only got a number once (it was 3x the allocated units) before covid and had to go resale, alot of the questions are very relevant. Good job
The reason given on why flats are becoming smaller, don't really justify his point. what does he mean by being more flexible, if the size is small , no matter how you combine or add room its not going to help with the size ? the house does not miraculously turn from 112 sqm to 126 sqm lol. on his point of More visibility and ventilation , why not let the owner decide this instead on ? like which room to remove for Flexibility ?
The units being smaller also means more units are getting packed into a single estate. That lowers the quality of life overall
Agree!!
Become smaller while costing more and has more restrictions. It's no wonder younger gen has grown more cynical.
@@Shersifydude, old estate with bigger old houses like yishun, bedok, hougang clementi, boon lay, chua chu kang, yew tee has virtually no nature, worn out and backward looking environment. If going by your logic of bigger size correspond to higher quality of life, then nobody wan to buy ec anymore.
High quality of life depends on good combination of factors like facilities, environment aesthetic, proximity to nature like sea or forest, size of flats, quality of neighbours because u dun wan too many elderly resident crawling and giving off smell around your estate, collar colour of your neighbours.
By the way, singapore is 1 of the highest densely populated nation…all estate are packed…dont come bullshit about this estate is less packed, other estate are highly packed….earn your rank and go travel the world open your eyes…if no money, then just stay home sprout your low educated nonsense let people laugh.
It's not a secret that many Ma'aysian-converted residents have rented out their entire Singapore HDBs for passive income while happily staying in their JB's nicely renovated condos and landed properties enjoying much lower living expenses.
I always thought HDB should be part of the solution to improving birthrates, but after the discussions, the top priority is still about money, hence HDB is actually part of the problem. People are already getting married late due to increasing cost, to start a family, having the house is really quite important.
Lots of interesting points of view and appreciate Nicholas raising his quite thoughtful insights!
wow.. they really know how to throw smoke grenade and run away when mention about the problems divorce and singles have... not everybody earn 5k and above on a 9-5 job ,know. Many work 12 hours jobs and only earning less than 3k. Giving grants does not mean can settle the problem. Its weather can get or not..
Nicholas brought up strong, valid points. Personally, I couldn't secure a BTO flat and had to opt for resale early last year.
To add insult to injury the previous seller made close to double what they got from HDB.
I believe HDB stopped offering 5-room flats in popular estates due to the high cost they would have to sell the units for. Even 4-room BTO flats in mature estates are already priced at 500k - 600k+.
Friends that got “lucky” with the ballot are constantly griping about how small their 4 room BTO are.
I think that singles should be allowed to buy at least a 3room bto!!!
U r alone, y need so many rooms ?
@@xavierchin5762 singles doesn't necessarily mean live alone. Some need to take care of parents and/or siblings.
The government officials doesnt seem to be answering the questions to Nicholas other than repeating the same old responses they gave in the past..
0:14: 🏘 Foreign measures announced to ensure affordability of housing for all, including changes in categorizing public flats.
3:50: 🏢 The discussion revolves around the impact of new BTO flat classifications on prices, demand, and waiting times for housing in Singapore.
7:38: 🏢 The demand for HDB flats in prime locations is increasing, leading to higher prices and a two-tier resale market.
11:24: 🏢 The rising prices of private condominiums in Singapore are causing some people to opt for three-bedroom HDB flats instead.
14:53: 🏗 Increasing productivity in construction sites and reducing waiting times for BTO flats are key priorities for Singapore.
18:42: 🏘 The discussion focuses on the impact of smaller flat sizes on the community and the need for flexibility in design.
22:01: 🏘 The discussion focuses on the need for more flexible and spacious flats in Singapore.
Recap by Tammy AI
Thanks! Very helpful! ❤❤❤
Hong Kongers are coming to Singapore 🇸🇬 to get further from the repressive Chinese regime,
with pros:
- bunch of money,
- unsympathetic attitude towards the Chinese regime,
and cons:
- skyrocketing house prices,
- unaffordability for local Singaporeans.
CNA doing god's work and relieving some stress the younger generation has. I think the right strategy right now if you are young couple and are looking at Resale HDBs is to RIGHTSIZE your flat at the start, buy what you can at the best location you can because if it somehow has an MRT station nearby you can cash out and BTO your 'PLUS or PRIME' property with no real restrictions.
Just my 2 cents. I Rightsized a home in S'goon North (1 Min to MRT in 2030) and after camping for a while I got a good one at a good price though i have to do extensive renovations.
Why is this program getting edited so often? Many of the answers, questions or views are not being addressed. 😢
Sensitive and mind blowing questions, exposing the truth...cannot be aired!😆😆😆
some couples are more willing to have kids, but are having difficulty doing so with the amount of space they have in their homes on top of having a hired maid so that they can cope with the chores and duties at home.
the next issue is the incredibly long wait time for young couples and failing to get a queue number for the option to purchase several times. how do these young couples even start to have families without proper homes?
good job steven. I think you do a great job as a talk show/forum host than the TV programs where you travel from one location to another (pretty draggy). you are able to elicit good responses from your interviews. I enjoyed watching all these forums. thank you !
The property market nowadays become a bidding playground for seller and property agent. The price is ridiculous high
The reason against shorter leases is laughable. Go to any BTO project that reached its MOP and you would see a flurry of activity of people selling their flats and new ones coming in. So much for building communities.
excellent questions being asked, very valid points to people who couldnt afford the buy the resale HDB while not eligible to buy HDB.
Henry should say that he will take back all open points for consideration with his team.
Exactly, so much excuses with the so called “flexibility” as if reconfigurating the walls to make room is Free.. Contractors are laughing their way to the bank.
Watching this show, it's hard not to think the PAP is failing Singaporeans
BIM is a good way moving forward. Please update your contract to Builders to include this mandatorily for Builders to use it and Consultants to have access to it. Even BCA has already made it compulsory to have BIM submissions. HDB contracts are always mostly reuse the same throughout the projects and they should be reassessed from time to time, catering to each specific non-typical projects.
HDB do not build 5A/EA/EM sizes above 130sqm anymore after the 1990s. This is why huge resale units will always command a premium and their prices are appreciating despite the lease. Even if HDB builds 5 room BTO at mature estates they'll likely be under the PLUS or PRIME restrictions with 10 years MOP hence resale units without restrictions are still more appealing even at their million dollar price tags as a result huge sized central location HDB continues to appreciate in price due to their high demand, everyone wants to stay in central locations for the ultimate convenience whereas few will want to stay in faraway locations be it HDB or private property. It creates this scenario whereby increasing number of people since covid were rushing to sell their private property in undesirable locations to buy these huge sized central location HDB, to upgrade their life in terms of location, size, and savings from maintenance fees which is better spent on better things like travelling, branded goods, kids' tuition, etc.
Let me ask you, why do you need 130m2? you have 4 kids? Most couple have only 1 kids or the most two and Dink couples are on the raise. You 100% need a gaming room or a wardrobe room? From what I hear and see in news, Government right now is not tackling 2nd hand market, but tackling BTO and BTO windfalls.
Somehow I get the feeling that these EA, EM houses will be like Rocher flats. Become valueless when market drops or crashes and nobody can afford them anymore in bad economy times. Apart from the upcoming drop / crash, there will be another one coming after.
This impacts BTO, and does not address the concerns that singles need to be 35 to apply. Assuming that they get it on first try, they would likely be 40s before they get the flat. Most may turn to existing resale, which likely goes up higher. All in all, this new policy targets very specific groups of people and does not address near term concerns.
singles need to be 35 is to make you get married and have kids for them to tax.
Thanks to Steve Chia for asking the difficult questions and Nicholas for the honesty and objective analysis on REAL issues. Jooann on the other hand talks about assumptions of current owners of large flats and perhaps them not needing the space, advocating for them to switch when they "get kids". Getting a flat on cue and moving your abode is not a small endeavor miss. this is not a game of monopoly.
Thank you for the propaganda. Don't see why it's so difficult for them to just acknowledge their mistakes and try to improve so we can move on to greener pastures. All I hear from the panel are excuses after excuses. Wtf is this nonsense oh we build small flats because some people like small flats. Gtfo out of here they buy the small ones because the bigger ones are too expensive lmao what a joke.
Limited land and increase population.
Compare to HK, Singapore HDB flat is huge aldy.
Compare to JB, its so so so small.
then why is it so difficult for couples to live with either side's parents? It's not like couples will become homeless if they can't get the BTO. you don't get something just because you want it lol
@@jj96432why so hard to understand that couples need privacy and staying with in laws tend to increase risk of divorce
@@NookTommy yes agree, but if the couple is not financially capable to get a house, they should put up with living with in laws. Everyone is restricted by their circumstance in some ways and just bcos you want smth doesnt mean you are entitled to get it
@christophertan4659
Absolutly agree with your views.
Changing the classification to PLUS and PRIME will not change the pricing mechanism. Ultimately prices will still be affected by the actual policies, e.g. MOP, subsidies, supply and demand.
About the living room space being more visible for modern flats. Of course they are more visible because they combine living room and kitchen. Older flats have even MORE visible living rooms without the need to combine the kitchen. Once you see an old but spacious living, you see SO MUCH SPACE.
Instead of lowering the sale price, government want to increase the price but offer subsidies. Lowering price helps everyone. Subsidies help targeted groups. The result is for those who cannot get subsidies because they don't qualify, good luck.
I don't think people should expect HDB to lower prices in the future because if they don't sell flats at market land prices, they are leaving money on the table and they will be seen as stupid.
For buyers, actually it doesn't matter if property is expensive. Just buy it, if you can afford, then during retirement, cash out and leave Singapore with that HUGE sum of money
This is an exercise that is obviously missing in the parliament, when the new initiative were introduced and debated in the house there are only the same representatives to do the questioning.
Consider bringing panel of experts to come forward and debate any new suggestions.
Still got time make it right alot of us Singaporean struggle to pay off the HDB load 2.60 interest it we don't want to sell our house.our cpf money will get lesss . Buy BTO expensive smaller, quality very bad compared to older flat .i even can listen my neighbour talk about their life in my own until . Haha 😂
Ridiculous. Government has the statistics in advance to make aware that BTO are deem so essential. Yet not doing quick enough. Our children will surely suffer in future.
Means only 2 things, either Govt is incompetent or on purpose to push up prices.
@@KC-oc7ki And both are terrible. Need to see a change.
@@J-qp4ldif you really want a change, vote PAP out. Other govt like, Amsterdam, implemented rent price control to address escalating residential rental price. PAP did nothing, but allow the soaring rental prices to happen. PAP is paid millions and this is their work performance.
How would visibilty and ventilation be of any help when I all need is space for a growing family ? Next time, pls put the property this experts are living in along with their occupation credentials. A huge reason TFR remains low is housing. Difficult to get one and difficult to accommodate a growing family after u get one.
@I33wan
Agreed.
Bringing the minimum age for buying flats down is something that can be difficult but very much necessary to address the socio-economic welfare of adolescents.
I just want a private space to chill after work. Why is it so hard???
Simple. The Govt makes the rules. You don’t. If you don’t like it, change it.
how about ECs in choicer locations? bridge the gap between the Private and HDB market in every district.
Good forum. Important to look at how HDB calculate new GFA on which area/space is included/excluded. The inclusion of riser space, air-cond ledge space, etc. which were all excluded in old GFA calculations, is now factored into new GFA. Covid taught us that we need bigger bedrooms and healthy living space even for small families of eg. 4 (2 adults, 2 children). Policy makers, do you stay in a HDB?
Absolutely agree with you. The lack of empathy by the planners and designers are appalling. Some of the kitchen designs and space are so small and cramp that one could hardly even fit a fridge and a washing machine. 🤦🏼🤦🏼
The ministry didn’t address measures for singles divorces on how to get more schemes for bto, very sad
Great content. Thanks CNA!
I gotta admit, that was fascinating re the new classifications being put in place. I live in Los Angeles and we are doing nothing to address the chronic housing shortage and rising real estate prices here (and much of the rest of the country). I think Singapore's HDB system is a benchmark and inspiration in exploring all options. Sure, it's not perfect but it has an amazing track record and has put so many families into housing. All we're doing here is kicking the can down the road
The reason is that those higher ups are all dissociated from what's happening on the ground level. They should be made to stay with the average household and standard size housing or even living homeless on the streets to get the real feel of what's happening, inorder for them to come up with better plans. And if they don't, it means their positions should be given to more deserving individuals from the public.
At the end of the day, it is still money talks. You have money, you can stay in central locations. Otherwise just stay at the fringe of the country.
It is not about seller or buyer market, it is about affordable. If you look at the last COV statistics and compare to the market now, it is two three fold the COV history as there is no limit to price up in today's market. Today's BTO also another matter for price affordability as the government has make it to business like model like the private market but in a so call lower price, if compare the statistics history of 10, 15 years ago where the HDB price began to rise after LKY rein.
Nicolas insights in regard to the less restrictions resales flats of HDB , with vacuum from private condo high prices, would drive up the resales flat in mature areas for sure.
As time passes, houses are getting smaller. Thus in the near or far future, birth rate gets lower and lower because cannot have a proper family in such a small space. By that time, the GOV is going to get worries.
@naqqil
From My point of view, the Goverment would not get worried because they are addicted to importing Manpower and citizens from developing countries to top up. Thats why they keep building smaller and smaller flats to indirectly control the local population. Social Engineering 101.
You can also see from their half hearted baby bonus policies, 6 days paid Childcare leaves and 2 weeks paternity leaves after birth. Hardly enough for 1 Child, much less a few kids. When 1 Child gets sick, it’s likely they’ll spread to their siblings. Is 6 days per parent enough? I have Yet to even include vaccination dates per Child. 😅
Hong Kong 2.0! So what are the solutions to second-timer BTO applicants of getting the ballot ticket again to select a flat when they have already gotten a BTO on the first try just so they could push the resale market higher, in view of the limited land space for housing in the future? Please explain the logic/criteria behind the balloting system.
part two please!!!
Wow kudos to the researcher. He's not a researcher for nothing. Hope the mnd get more feedback from him
@cna.. yr seating arrangement for guests IF on one side is better than split into two sides. The camera cannot really focus on faces of guests. saw the camera focus the back of nicolas while he was speaking. This was due to the poor seating arrangement which did not consider the camera positions. Might want to refer to taiwan show 关键时刻 for reference
Still a hot debate but the new scheme will not lower down the prices in my opinion
Thank goodness that I'm single and safe away from all of this housing madness. I wish my younger generations blessings. Take care.
These measures still do not help the waiting time for flats.
The only way to be guaranteed a flat in time to start a family is to find a partner while you are still studying and apply for a flat while still in school.
Hopefully by the time you graduate and start working 3 years later your flat will be ready in 1-2 years time. However, not everyone is so lucky to be able to find a partner and get a good queue number.
I applied 6 times, and finally got a ROF flat in a non-mature area. I had been applying for more than 4 years before we had a decent number. If you start applying after you start work, you will prob only get your flat in your mid thirties. Meaning your “adulting” life started close to your mid life assuming an average age of 83.
How will people be able to start a family let alone have more than 1 kid?
Mothers will be taking on additional risk having a geriatric pregnancy.
I have friends you are going to be 30 soon.
The BTO they booked this year will only be ready in 2028. How are they supposed to settle down with no space to build a nest?
very good n valid pointers from veteran nick mark.
good discussion but for a topic like this, more time should be given
Im a young adult and seeing this really scares me.. Its soo expensive to buy a flat even with the subsidy. How am I going to start a family.. Somemore flats are getting smaller and smaller, not enough space for my parents and future wife/kids to live in. They build it smaller cos they want to maximize profits! Greedy people! 😔 Probably ill need to migrate out of Singapore.
Thanks Jooann and Nicholas.
why not cut down the middleman and lower the outlying cost of getting a flat, i.e. the estate agents for HDB?
Ultimately the unaffordability of houses boils down to income inequality. Some people salary doesn't increase as much as fast as others and they will always be priced out from the market. Unfortunately gahmen doesn't even want to publish stats on this and pretend it is all ok
Agreed.
What worries me greatly is that the houses are still being built for the mindset and lifestyle of the past generations. Primarily there are two areas that the modern day family needs: a dedicated study room for adults, and a wardrobe/changing room, either communal or for the adults alone. Without additional rooms and space for these needs, the space for children shrinks even more.
Small room for children means bad childhood haha😂
I just don't understand why singles are required and must pay $15k when buying 2 bedroom. Feels like a penalty and its unfair.
In Singapore,the housing market will not get any better in terms of pricing, if u can’t afford to buy now, you will never be able to own a flat in the future. Ask your parents for the inheritance money now to secure a flat n build up the equity.
Those who bought BTO should not be able to sell it after MOP at such a high profit margin. This needs to be controlled!!
A lot of questions were more of diverted rather than answered such as the shrinking sizes of the units running inversely to the rising housing cost. What is the percentage of the units build follow or agree with the the current housing model shown? Another thing is that the authorities seem to have made a lot of assumptions to justify the current movement of public housing in Sg. What were the basis of those assumptions? The point on static space is well brought up. More genuine conversations need to take place. Am really not sure how the new branding of housing into standard, plus and prime will really resolve the rising prices. At the end of the day, the authorities should measure not just the rate of price increase vs income increase. Rather, the actual amount of increase plus the rising cost of living should be taken into account bearing in mind that public housing is the only housing option that one belonging to the low SES has. Also, if the government is always talking about ownership (or in actual fact, long term lease) then rental should not be the direction to move towards to.
Many Singaporeans find housing costs unaffordable, especially those aged between 25 and 34, according to a study by research company Milieu. The younger generation might feel envious of their parents' ability to buy and sell HDB flats without restrictions. Going forward, the new categorization will allow buyers to purchase flats cheaply but sell them cheaper. Therefore, the accumulation of wealth may not be as fast as it was for previous generations.
The average BTO prices across Singapore have increased over the years due to the demand for mature estates near amenities. However, the new system aims to provide affordable housing options to all citizens, and only time will tell if the measures are successful.
I'm not sure if they considered or thought about the impact to the demographics of the kind of residents in these prime/plus/standard. Over the long term ppl maybe classed by which region they're living in
Real funny, let’s say we have 10 floors of 4rm flats each sized at 90sq meters, each floor has 10 units, each priced at $300,000.00 (for the sake of easy maths). Each column of 4 rm flats only occupies 90sq meters, and that 90sq meters has a land cost of………$3,000,000.00, yes sure deduct material & labour, that’s a HUGE profit made off the backs of the Singaporean people. By the way the whole block would be at $30,000,000.00. Stop with the smoke screens.
Would the government ever tell us what are the material and manpower cost to build a bto house? They will never let us know because it's definitely profitable for them.
Liked the polls from the public about housing prices and their honest comments. The crux is what is the actual objective of public housing ? To pay more and get less ? Affordability in terms of median income which the 25-30 year old have not earned or achieved yet due to just starting out careers and family ? Affordability based on subsidies which the public still eventually has to pay in taxpayer's dollars ? The problem is that HDB prices have spiralled out of control (due to many factors including inflated land costs). This raises the question as to what is actually the cost of building a BTO and the 'land cost' is an arbitrary number as the land 'belongs' to the citizens eventually, whether the land cost is imputed now for 'future reserves' which by then citizens will face another round of increases. in short, this routine of 'musical chairs' is not sustainable. Can the govt face the 'hard truth' that BTOs are unaffordable to the man in the street and all those who have fallen out of safety net (like divorced single parents with kids) ? Does the govt dare to make the 'tough choice' to freeze HDB prices and reduce the subsidies in tandem while wait for building costs to catch up with HDB's published prices, up the size of BTOs ? High BTO housing also 'sucks' money out of the economy which could have been put to more entrepreneurial efforts by citizens to explore new business ventures and aid the economy from hollowing out. Cheap affordable public housing is a global problem which $1 million cabinet ministers must stop thinking in silos and collaborate to resolve for the good for Singapore.
8 times BTO never get it , went to buy resale flat . Thats even with priority
Sounds like alot of excuses and very subjective opinions being expressed tho Nicholas gave the fairest comments.
The real estate lady talked about how small family do not need 5 room flat. That totally bs. Even if I want to have more kids...due to space constraints, I would not considered having kids or at most just having 1 child.
She suggested Singaporean to have children first b4 we are "eligible" to own a 5 room flat. Sounds so controlling and dictative! We are humans...not corpses. Its not like each person is entitled only to a certain amount of space at home. We do need some personal space between family members as well .
Thats why their property agent - sugar coated words and she definitely want you to go for condo instead of being eligible for 5-room. All this bullshit for higher commission
you sound so entitled. on one end you demand for larger houses (for personal space etc) but on the other end you do not want to commit to having multiple children. having your own housing with just your partner or having a bigger house is a privilege not a right
In the 80s/90s there are many people with 2 child living in 3 room flats. Now mostly is DINK or only 1 child. so you need so much space for your walk in wardrobe? Many get rid of "extra room" .
HDB failed to provide enough flats timely and proper. Just admit it. In old time like toa payoh, they build coffee shops, provision shops, clinics closeby. In tampines, the "golden result" of Mah BT era, squeezing more flats into same area, making it difficult to live as heartlanders. That is the problem and that cause your 30k stock. Mah bow tan failed
Gotta salute the Nicholas for knowing the ground and able to shoot holes in the designed policies and the public housing system. Personally, I see this is a failure in the BTO plan compared to the 1G or 2G eras .
no, on the contrary, it will become more expensive for resale. HDB is not fixing the root cause, which is pegging HDB prices to properties around the area. Of course, i doubt they can unwind this without political costs as asset enhancement has gone wrong.
Honestly not everyone wants to build a community.. shouldn’t impose that on us.. the lock in Period of 10 years MOP is too much It’s like the gov controls our own personal life and only the rich can have the flexibility
How come, my engineer friends says project from hbd cost cheaper then the real prices roll out to the market(excluding interest).Take note material comes from Malaysia mainly .
We are going to be indebt for a long time enjoy Singapore
so for that financial crisis in 1997., we have consistently not changed the supply models and now that we have a trend of almost a decade where supply is not meeting demand and yet we have not increase the supply ? Even an amateur can tell this is frustrating . The entire building process is 5 years . All of these "experts" are trying to defend the government , the reality is they have not predicted the supply / demand well enough. The team forecasting Tuas Mega port and Terminal 5 at the airport need to be shifted to the HDB to help them plan better. Period.
Most of the answers are inadequate, if not misleading. For example, what good are things like "sense of community" and "rootedness in the country" as exc... reasons to avoid shorter leases to help lower income families afford flats, when what they precisely need is a cheaper home? In the country!
I have 3 kids and my parents … government wants us to look after our parents and have more kids but I am working my socks off and the house is like a sardine can.
Have more kids?
Look after parents?
Work life balance? Think again.
Regulate resale market by forbidding all private home owners from getting one till BTO catches up with the supply. BTO supply are 3 years behind time and they should caveat in 36 months wait for private home owners! More grants for people going for resale should also be consider since its never enough in this current market, cut off the potential flipping of the BTO by clawing back any grants if BTO owners were to sell it within 10 years.
Please control the open burning joss paper and candles. Many people living in hdb are suffering silently because we were told to be sensitive to others' religion. But does that mean we have to suffer silently for years to accommodate your culture that doesn't care about your neighbour? During chinese new year and hungry ghost festival, we will get sore throat because of the smokes from these open burning. Sometimes my whole family were awaken by heavy smokes at 3 a.m because our home was filled with smokes. Who dictate all these joss paper/candles must be burn right below the hdb? Is it possible to burn all these items in your nearest temple without affecting any of your neighbour. Your consideration is much appreciated.
I feel like the government is doing something very very wrong with housing in Singapore...
social class division - standard / Plus / Prime =)
Sometimes, the STATE REFUSE TO ADMIT THEY ARE WRONG AND JUST KEEP DOING THINGS TO ADDRESS THE MISTAKES😢
I hope the future hdb blocks won't be like how they design/ construct some parts of woodlands, hdb blocks where the voideck deck is not fully flat instead have you seen a block where certain part or half of the block itself have uneven terrain on the ground level. I hope hdb architecture or whoever designs the building go and survey the land itself. If not, it's not gonna be convenient for emergencies access. Basically, design something how u want be treated and treat ppl how u wanna be treated
🔥🔥🔥🔥
When fire broke out in the HDB units, there is no 🔥 escape exit door!!
It’s not worth and safe to put your love ones in the hdb housing.