Here is a sparring video between the two weapons: th-cam.com/video/_gndIJnmS5o/w-d-xo.html Though the rapierist is using both cut and thrust while Matt’s rapier seems to be highly thrust centric
*FINALLY* someone is addressing a serious source of anxiety for me. I actually considered replacing my rapier, even if only to stop people from calling me a rapierist.
I recently watched an interesting couple of videos on the anatomy of a headshot (with a gun). One of the points was that, in cases where people have survived, the chances were vastly increased by the bullet traversing from front to back, or vice versa. Wounds that pass from one hemisphere of the brain into the other are far more deadly. I wonder how much this translates to thrusting blade wounds. You hear stories of people surviving metal bars embedded in their heads. It may be that a thrust through the face, into the brain, isn't as guaranteed a stopping blow as casual common sense might lead one to assume.
@@Murdo2112I think you're confusing stopping blows with lethal blows. Have you ever seen video footage of people with pointy metal bits protruding through their faces? They really can't do much, I imagine they can barely even register anything through all the shock and overwhelming adrenaline high.
@@Murdo2112 don't take me as an expert on physical trauma and what human beings can accomplish under extreme duress, ofc, but it seemed like a distinction worth noting to me 👌
Mr. Easton, I've been watching for years but rarely comment. I love your channel so much. Not only are you incredibly well-read and experienced/knowledgeable in the topics you cover, you never actually (as far as I know) show a bias towards any one particular school of combat, culture, weapon, etc. You never "fanboy out", if you will, about anything and your content covers such a wide variety of weapons/cultures. Moreover, your genuine passion for the topics is always so evident in every video. I just wanted to thank you so much for the hours of education and entertainment! Thank you for all that you do :)
I would say he fanboys out on all weapon types equally. I would say that he fanboys out on any new strange sword he adds to his collection, be it British, Indian, Afgan, Philipino, etc... Bonus points if it's wootz, because wootz ;) Not fanboying out in the sense of not being objective, but fanboying out in the sense of "look at how cool this weird/strange/non-regulation weapon that I just added to my collection is"
Of course he is bias and he shows it at times. That said, I agree that he does a pretty good job of showing respect and doing what he can to limit how his bias impacts the lessons. Everyone is bias. I'm bias towards the katana and I admit the rapier has the edge in a duel, because I've practiced swordfighting for years. I'd still pick the katana and fight any other swordsman. That doesn't mean I don't respect the skill and ability of those who are skilled with a rapier. I think he has respect for people like me who practice Japanese swordsmanship, even if he has bias against it because he trains in HEMA. He knows someone with a katana could still kill him but he feels confident with his sword of choice. Same with me, of course the rapier could kill me, and has a reach advantage, but I'd still feel confident squaring off against one with a katana
Count me interested in the reverse, as the katana against the rapier. I feel there's going to be a lot of interesting and quite focused efforts at deflection, pushing the rapier out of the way.
Well, the theory is rather simple, problem is putting it into practice. You need to be aggressive and close that gap. There's no way you're winning a duel against a rapier fencer while keeping your distance; you're basically getting yourself into a spear vs longsword situation: the advisable move is getting close enough to turn the rapier's strength against it, and if you pull it off it will usually work out well for you. There's just one small, pointy and very possible problem: daggers. A rapier usually comes with a dagger, and this means you can't get THAT close. However, if you're asking about dealing exclusively with a rapier, the best course of action is to deflect a strike or hit the blade to the side, and immediately get close enough to deliver a cut. Do have in mind that a rapier is flexible and nibble; it will be back after you immediately if the fencer is a skilled one. Want a way more simple solution? Wear heavy armor. Bit unfair too
@@jenssylvesterwesemann7980It would probably get in the way of various techniques and eliminate the strength/leverage advantage a two handed blade offers. If you want to double-wield, you need a Tantō or a Wakizashi: shorter blades that essentially fulfill the same role as fencing daggers. If your opponent is only using a rapier and you're versed in Daishō, you could use it to your advantage.
@@addictedtochocolate920About eight year's ago, I had a cup hilt rapier made by Arms 'n Armor,when they were still making that model and able to pound out the cup. I requested a 42" blade length, it was a very well made sword, I also requested a slightly shorter grip. When your arm is extended with 42" of thrust centric point, only a fool would try to chop his way through. I also mentioned most rapierists carried Maine Gauches to finish the job, a trained swordsman would go for Arterial areas.
My teacher called that following the blade it's probably the worst thing you can do against someone with a rapier especially if you have the shorter weapon. The weight of the guard brings the weight all the way back to your hand so you only need a small movement to replace your point so trying to displace it would be pointless, you'd be best aiming to cut into it for a bind but it's still a lot better suited to cutting or thrusting from there than you'd be
Thank god I found this! All I own is a rapier and I’ve been afraid to go to a nearby mall because everyone there carries katanas! But seriously, however inapplicable the situation you present may be to modernity, you use it to share deep and insightful conclusions I could never arrive at myself.
Everyone at the mall, or flea market are "katana expert's " and watched "Kill Bill" too many times. Historical texts are the best methods to study how both Rapiers/sides words and Katana's and various Samurai weapons were used. I do remember there was an Iron rod with an upper guard catcher that was wrapped in cord, that Japanese police used to stop a Katana...forgot the name, but it looked effective.
Japanese police had all kinds of stuff if some of the historical art I’ve seen is to believed. One of them was a polearm that had a head set 90 degrees (like a groundskeepers rake) and barbs all over it. Supposedly they used them to catch the ample robes of samurai and pin them to a wall or whatever, all outside of sword reach.
Matt, I don't know how good are you fencing, but I have to say that your english pronounciation is simply top class, one of the best or just the best I have heard in TH-cam
It's not only a problem of the length of the blade, but also that katana is generally most effective if handled with both hands. So not only is the blade shorter, but also the reach. And if the rapierist is also holding a dagger or the like in his other hand it is possible to catch the katana or stab and slice the katana-wielder scoured on your rapier.
I have actually participated in this matchup. I was giving a rapier seminar to kendo students in Japan and they eventually (as people are wont to do) felt the need to test themselves with their shinai against my rapier. They would inevitably charge but reach of my rapier combined with a lightning lunge to the mask was extraordinarily effective at stopping everything. Wherever the head goes, the body must follow.
The problem is they are kendo and not kenjutsu. The shinai have little in common with a katana as they lack the curve. Real katana technique has more subtleties and angles
@@davefletch3063 not just that but a katana with proper weight can use it’s levers and easily manipulate the rapiers point. Shinai do not have that kind of weight/leverage
Yes kendo-ka don't really know how to fight, but I would argue that most sport fencers don't really know how to fight either. Both are a sport with rules and specific targets. Still, your point is fair. A kenjutsu practitioner would do much better in general. One of my kenjutsu/iaijutsu students went into a kendo school nearby and wiped the floor with every one of their students because they don't actually know how swords work.
Como ya comenté en el vídeo anterior, estos dos tipos de espadas ya se probaron en los combates entre los tercios de Filipinas contra piratas japoneses. El rango, la movilidad y la versatilidad de la ropera española de 2 filos que se usaron ( también hay de 1 solo filo) fueron decisivas contra las katanas japonesas. Aunque se presente como un arma de estocada, la ropera, aunque no llega ni de lejos a la capacidad de corte de la katana) tenía el filo suficiente para, aprovechando su movilidad, causar pequeñas heridas que debilitaban al oponente, sobre todo en las manos poco protegidas, lo cual dificultaba el manejo al rival
With combination of shield and spear we use similar principles. 1. Keep distance using side steps (force him to change vector of his charge to lower momentum) 2. Hit his face or arm with weapon 3. Learn how to use weapon at very short distance (over head for exaple) 4. If he is closing just shorten the distance even more and use grapling skills or dagger rather than fighting in "his" distance.
As a Kenjutsu practitioner i would appreciate a "how to beat a rapier with a katana without going into kys mode", but I'm guessing it's just gonna involve closing the gap and avoiding getting a punctured lung with high levels of luck and skill.
I think a lot of people try not to get HIT or CUT and that’s why they never rush their opponents, when that’d exactly what you should do against a rapier that doesn’t hit or cut as easily as a saber
If it's like longsword against rapier, the katana should be able to use the greater leverage & strength of the two-handed grip to parry, beat, & deflect the rapier. The significantly shorter blade on the katana would make this more difficult.
@@b.h.abbott-motley2427this can be done... With an O-katana or a Nodachi, but not with your regular sized, edo-period katana, at least not that easily. I mean, if you give me a Nodachi this becomes a whole new kind of discussion entirely, and i do have many ideas(?
@@addictedtochocolate920 what school of kenjutsu do you study? Do they teach or have kata on how to fight against a spear? If so you can use similar principles against the rapier
Great video Matt. I would definitely tune in for your insights on making the most of the katana in a katana vs. rapier match. I have not studied HEMA but I have practiced some Japanese Kobudo and the prevailing wisdom of the dojo could be summed up as "longer really is better." :) The concepts you presented in this video are remarkably consistent with my weapons training.
The problem is, he isn't really a katana guy. I mean, he knows some basics and respects the sword I'm sure, but just watching him hold and cut with it, it is clear it isn't his weapon of choice.
thank you so much for addressing the fact that the stab isn't an insta kill. I had a lot convos with other hema people and none of them ever wanted to acknowledge that. Also I feel like alot of people forget that their are other katana like weapons such as the wakazashi and odachi which have smaller and longer blades.
@@muthpeterpatrikI would assume, that because the katana has a lot of weight on the blade, if the katana user is trusting, the rapier will have a hard time deflecting it, also the katana has a few one handed trusts with the left hand, giving the katana user a surprising amount of reach
@@dylanpagliaccetti6758 I dont practice neither weapons, but afaik the rapier has superior reach and manuverability, I don't think that there can be a really fast thrust made by the katana. In the book of five rings Mushashi wrote :" there is no fast way to wield the long sword(katana)" But as I said Im just guessing here.
@@JamesRowlandsRocks I suspect it's also the 25-foot rule. Pikes are pretty slow (they're both heavy and rather awkward, due to their length) and probably very difficult to control while running, due to the very, _very_ distant point of balance.
The 21 foot rule was established in a court case using Chuck Norris attaching a police officer with his gun holstered. A cop shot an unarmed man who took a karate stance about 20 ft away and said he felt threatened. If a world champion martial artists attacks the average person from 21 feet away, he gets hit before he can draw the gun. This distance can be adjusted if the man with the gun is Jerry Michalak. "21 feet" is all hyperbole.
I think I was one of the people that commented on your last video 😄 It is really eye opening to use a variety of weapons and I 100% agree that from what I've found transitioning from Japanese martial arts to our own European martial arts is that in an individual or 2-3 on 1 situation when you have the space to engage, disengage and manage your distance, the Rapier does give you a significant advantage, not a sure thing obviously but I could definately see the difference 🙂 I'm glad that my teacher seems to be of the same train of thought as you on this Matt, single or double tempo parries, thrusts and slashes in and out of the bind mixed with engaging and disengaging thrusts and slashes to control your distance 🙂 I'd only add that my Jujutsu teacher always used to tell me to "finish the move" so follow a crippling or killing blow with a disengage, throw or grapple to be sure they're no longer a threat
1:45 That is the reason why we then moved from the 1911 in .45 ACP to lower-caliber handguns with better-quality ammo (hollow-points at higher pressures) and larger magazine capacity, and started really emphasizing shot placement. As one well-known American firearms luminary has put it, handguns poke holes in people, rifles poke holes through people. I would go further and say that rifles put pounds of pressure through people and tend to produce much more tissue damage than pistols do, and are generally more reliable fight-stoppers because of that. If you're using a handgun, unless you get a central nervous system hit, all you've really done is start an invisible timer that counts down until the assailant becomes disabled due to the injury, and more rounds into the assailant will shave seconds off of that timer. The two incidents that really taught American law enforcement these lessons, painfully, were the Trooper Coates incident, and the Miami-Dade shooting.
Most Rapierists would carry either a Maine Gauche, or Sail Gaurd Maine Gauche (most Preferable ) Always use point, both swordsmen can move quickly, honestly first parry , hit into soft target area, use Say Maine Gauche to sever Clavical Artery or throat. Always pray that if they cut you. It's not in any major vein or arterial area. There was an article written where several Portuguese swordsmen had killed Samurai....Again, if there are anyone who has heard or knows about the article that would be great. Seriously, I agree with Matt, the Katana is a gorgeous and very well made sword, and is an excellent cutter, no offense to those who like Katana's , Wakazashi's, No-Dachi's etc.
Thinking on this topic a second time... Honestly it's the same issue an arming sword has against a spear or well a rapier or a two-handed sword in some cases. And if you are the one with the longer weapon your goal is always to control the biggest advantage you have which is reach. Subsequently that means that timing anything wrong, hitting a part that isn't immediately fatal, not having the strength and stamina or stay on par, misjudging distance, failure of technique to angle, or being lured into a disadvantage are all factors that could lead to your demise. In western treatise for instance a person might take their cloak and use it in their off hand in place of a knife to act as an impromptu buckler, sword catch, parry, or to blind their opponent in a critical moment. Any opponent with a shorter weapon could try the same, ultimately presenting a target that getting hit isn't fatal enough of a loss to overcome the reach advantage. Just because you can thrust and reach doesn't mean you'll always hit. Nor does it mean your hits will be fatal. In the context of a duel by first blood or contact then obviously a longer weapon could get away with something without much commitment. But if it was a duel to the death, and both are unarmored, all non-fatal wounds are meaningless. You could look at the film Rob Roy (1995) as an example, where a much longer and lighter blade poked holes in the protagonist all day, but in the end his basket hilt broadsword cut down his foe who tired and made a fatal error. Coming full circle the one with the long poker wants the put the point through something critical. And the one who doesn't want to be a pin cushion wants to get past the point. It's a matchup as old as time.
Again (!): Historically, from the late 16th century and especially following the Sengoku Jidai (ie after ca. 1615), samurai would be carrying daishō. Modern Kobudo (Japanese martial arts dating from after 1868) - like most Iaidō-schools (post 1932) - don’t necessarily have much (if ANY) focus on practice with two swords. Traditional Ko-ryū, however, DO often provide training in dual sword-techniques - to some extent or other. Historical evidence thus do suggest, that a Sengoku- or Edo-period samurai could have deployed his shōtō (tantō or wakizashi) in conjunction with his daitō (tachi or katana) in order to improve his odds against an opponent with a range-advantage. Such as a European rapier-wielder. Including parrying the rapier, before cutting down (!) said European rapier-wielder. Of course, the rapier-wielder could be brandishing a dagger of his own - though it would probably be much shorter than a standard wakizashi…(!). It doesn’t make much sense to look at this scenario, solely from a HEMA-perspective… 🤔🎓 The historical samurai-class developed martial arts schools (Ko-ryū), teaching combined weapons techniques - including fencing (kenjutsu) - both for battlefield use against armoured adversaries; and techniques against foes without armour (in peacetime). Kenjutsu, after all, is more than vertical, diagonal and horizontal cutting, combined with guttural growls and shrill screams (as most reasonable people thankfully know…) 😁 ⚔️🤓
I wonder why they didnt use the Sai? Its better suited to the task with those quillons. I guess it was only used on Okinawa? The left hand dagger or main gauche can be used in conjunction with the rapier as well, a purpose made off hand weapon with blade trapping quillons,look at things like the the Sail Dagger and Sword Breaker as well, not to mention wheel lock pistols...
@@Kinetic.44 I agree; and this was kinda my point! ☺️ There are several ways to use "left hand" techniques - and the Japanese developed several (!) of their own. Few truly skilled samurai would have just "kamikaze"d themselves into a competent foreign warrior’s sharp, pointed weapon. That’s both preposterous - and ahistorical (!)… Just as Matt is a proponent of looking at the historical sources for HEMA; I point to real traditional Ko-ryū. Both traditions can learn great lessons from each other, that I wholeheartedly believe! ☺️
Fascinating stuff, Matt! I would be very interested in seeing a video from the opposite side of the fight. I often think the fighter with the more difficult job has the more interesting tale to tell, so would absolutely love to hear your opinion on how the katana-wielding swordsman would overcome a rapierist!
The only technique I can figure comes from my boxing days. As a short for weight fighter... I was always trying to corner my opponent to take away his reach advantage and prevent him escaping my more powerful blows. The problem is I nearly always had to take a punch to get inside his reach. Which is likely true for the katana wielder as well. You just hope the strike you take isn't fatal...and the one you deliver is!
A samurai always carries a katana and a wakizashi (they usually don't carry only a katana), so by throwing a wakizashi or using two wields like Miyamoto Musashi, I think can expand fighting style a bit more.
@@犬まにまに If you are talking about additional weapons throwing a musket ball out of a wheel lock pistol works much better than throwing a knife. The left hand dagger or main gauche was often used in conjunction with the rapier as well, negating any advantage of the wakasashi. Its a superior purpose made off hand weapon as well look at the Sail Dagger in particular.
@@犬まにまに And Rapierists train with an accompanying main gauche dagger! Have you ever wielded a katana singlehandedly? If you have, you know they were designed to be used two handed.
Great analysis. I also wondered about dual wielding katana as some schools taught (albeit a small number). You raised a very salient point about reach. The jo, or short staff, was used very effectively to counter the lack of reach of sword-wielding people for just that reason. People shouldn't underestimate just how much extra reach you can get by turning your body or extending an arm. Similarly how much you can shorten a weapon retracting your arm (pardon the pun).
Musashi said that for dueling, one sword is better, but on a battlefield, two swords are better. "With 1 sword, you can do 1 thing. With 2 swords, you can do 4 things." As someone who has trained for 20 years with katanas, including niten, I would have to agree. I would never opt to use two swords in a duel personally. Not to say it can't be done of course, only fools make absolutes in combat, but in general, I'd feel much better with one.
I would definitely be interested in seeing how the katana wielder could win. I like seeing mismatched weapons and figuring out how one could out maneuver the other.
By knocking the rapier blade far off the center and charging in to close the distance, because despite the reach advantage, the rapier has a disadvantage in leverage, due to being a one-handed sword with a longer blade balanced closer to the hilt, while the katana, being a two-handed sword with a shorter blade balanced further from the hilt, will have a leverage disadvantage: thrusts with a rapier can be knocked aside relatively more easily than the rapier can parry cuts from a katana. These videos demonstrate this quite well, the participants are almost evenly matched, and both depict and explain how the reach advantage and the leverage disadvantage of the rapier cancel each other out, leaving personal skill the determining factor th-cam.com/video/jcwoBVUqlW0/w-d-xo.html th-cam.com/video/_gndIJnmS5o/w-d-xo.html
When I was in sport fencing 🤺 with Epee I loved retreating a few times to draw them in and then unleashing my full 6’4” in a lunge to the mask. Definitely made my opponent adjust their spacing
Great vid mate - very entertaining, definitely an appetite for various katana / longsword/ gladius / rapier / sabre etc v each other weaknesses and strengths. Cheers
The after blow of the katana is a very important thing to bring up. Because of movies and video games people often don't realize that after being stabbed or even shot people very often keep going for a bit even if the wound is ultimately fatal. You can't just shoot someone charging you or stab them with a long range weapon. You have to be prepared with a plan to defend yourself if they are able to close distance after taking your hit.
i practiced kendo about fifty years ago. in single combat, the rapier will more often be effective. your advice is excellent. one point that you might have overlooked is that the 'kote' (wrist) is one of the most common attacks in kendo. the range advantage to head or torso attacks favors the rapier, but the range of the katana to the wrist is much shorter. i would not like to face a rapier with a katana, but the wrist would completely stop the rapier attack. as to disabling ONE arm of the kendoist might not incapacitate him sufficiently. one of the long range kendo attacks uses only the 'weak' hand, it is almost ballistic. i would NOT like to take that chance, however.
Also, good rapier swordsmen are extremely fast in all directions. If they have a place like an arena fight, they will never take risk like blocking, reposting, etc. The rapier will just punch from a safe distance while he chats on his phone :) Outside of our arena, things change drastically.
1) Is it practical to parry or catch a strong cut from a Katana with a Parrying Dagger? 2) In combat shooting there is a concept called Failure To Stop. If a gunshot to centre of mass does not stop the assailant, the second shot is to the face below the brow line which should destroy the brain stem and cause instant death. Moral: Stab them in the face through to the hind brain whenever you can. Thank you for this. I do like these small technique tid-bits. Be well and do continue to be Matt Easton.
If you catch the katana on the strong near the basket/quillions of the dagger, you’ll be fine - works well against Sideswords and Longswords. Or, if you Let-off with Hanging blade, while stepping-around, you should be okay. If you just try to parry nonchalantly, you will be destroyed, as can happen with a strong cut from a Rapier or any other weapon pushing through the weak of your blade. 😂 However, Meyer tells us how to defeat this problem with Rapier & Dagger (or any two weapons) coming together in a Cross-guard. When you cross your blades about the mid-points, you create a scissor-shape, the goal is to catch the blow between the “scissor-blades” and the moment you do this and have absorbed the impact force, then you can hold-off with the dagger, while immediately cutting or thrusting with the Rapier (or vice-versa if in close-measure). I can sometimes get 2 or 3 cuts off (usually cross-cuts to either side of the neck, with a cut across the legs and/or arms) before my opponent recovers from flailing after my blade to start parrying properly again. The advantage of two-weapons vs one is quite pronounced once you get used to managing two weapons, so you don’t get all bound-up on yourself… 😁
@@chadherbert18 Wow! What a comprehensive reply to an off-handed question. Very clear too - I actually understood what you were describing. Thank you very much for taking the time and going to the trouble to educate me. I appreciate that a great deal. Cheers!
I’d thrust, backpedal, while using Meyer’s Cross-guard defence with Rapier & Dagger. Then while riposting with a thrust or cut, hold-off their Katana, aborting with Rapier when needed, to again use Cross-guard, then Riposting while Holding-off with dagger. This is basically how I fence with Rapier & Dagger anyway and it all works because of decent perception and measure control - no super-powers needed! 😂
Great information as always Matt, thanks. I was wondering how much would change if the samurai was fully armored and the rapierist had breast / back plate and helmet . Conqestodor armor so to speak. Could the rapier punch thru Japanese armor. Or would it be a face and exposed arm duel .lol just wondering your thought. Cheers from new Jersey.
Later high-grade Japanese armor (tosei gusoku) was based on a breastplate strong enough to withstand bullets, so at least for the torso area, both COULD have similar levels of protection.
Managing your space and distance is important for any fight armed or unarmed but in this situation definately Whoever has the Katana should be set on closing the gap and taking up as much space as possible, Rapiers like that are at their best at full reach and it isn't that easy to use one to parry heavier blows so press the attack don't give them any room
These two videos are an adequate depiction of both weapons in sparring th-cam.com/video/jcwoBVUqlW0/w-d-xo.html th-cam.com/video/_gndIJnmS5o/w-d-xo.html
Interesting in theory but I guess it would be more historically accurate to compare the rapier with the curved ottoman swords. The Spanish and the ottoman fought a considerable number of battles, from the siege of Malta, Lepanto, Castelnuovo and many smaller battles and raids. Both contenders had developed techniques to maximize their advantages and minimize their weaknesses.
An issue not mentioned in the video is that the rapier is a one-handed weapon versus a katana, which is a two-handed weapon. This means that the rapierist has the luxury of using a buckler or other shield in their off hand; wheras the katana weilder has no such option.
Good video and goods points. I do wonder about a couple of things: a rapier thrust capable of penetrating Samurai armor would have to be a very well executed thrust. Also, even though a katana will not cut through a rapier blade, a simple parry with rapier will not likely stop the momentum of a katana cut. The cut may have enough force to continue in its arc and still cut you even if you manage to get your rapier in position to parry. I think you would have to expertly use the juncture of blade and hilt somehow to effectively stop the cut. Interesting topic for sure.
It's a fairly standard question when most people learn to use smaller, slimmer blades especially the Spanish cup hilted rapiers like that or the French Smallsword. When you parry a blow even with a larger weapon like a staff or longsword you should avoid directly opposing it, the forms we learn are specifically to get us used to moving and deflecting, it is more difficult especially when it's something a lot bigger so the Katana would be harder to stop 🙂 As for the Rapier or any weapon against armour it would obviously depend on the armour, but if we look at the most protective in Japan the Toseigusoku or oyoroi so lamellar or plated armour you'd obviously be better off with a rapier because you could just about bruise someone through that with a cut. Comparing European to Japanese plated armour the Japanese would actually be easier to deal with with a rapier as it has less overlapping plates so more places to drive the point, you'd just have to deal with the mail underneath then 🙂
There is a nice technique that I've seen fencers do and I've done many times with a katana where you essentially cut them and they go to block and you simply cut through, pulling the cut back slightly to pass the sword, and follow up with a thrust. I imagine that a good swordsman isn't just going to stand there and let you do that every time. It is like how many aikido techniques work great, if the guy just stands there and lets you do it. The technique will work if you see the parry and you are quick but you can't assume it will work every time because likely they aren't just trying to block your attack but also trying to cut/stab you as well. If your plan is to stop their cut, you will fail, every time. It is about using angles of attack. Few real swordsmen are going to slam swords against one another at full force. That isn't really how blocks tend to work unless of course that is all you have time to do, but then you are reacting rather than acting and will probably lose anyway.
Maybe another video on secondary weapons carried by each type of fighter, Left hand dagger and Wakizashi. I think it would be interesting to look at style of two weapon fighting used at the time by the combatants to give them different offense and defense options.
It's no comparison the left hand dagger ( mein gauche) is a purpose made weapon, quillions that trap the opposing blade not mention things like the sword breaker and sail dagger
I was think of style or tactic of using the sword as defense and the dagger as offense when the Samurai closes the distance. Also look at two hand vs one hand from both points of view. the fact is that alot of time a dagger and Wakizashi were carried with the their matching sword so maybe at hand during a fight. options change things sometimes. @@Kinetic.44
Not well... the Portuguese sailors just ran through the Japanese Samurai in duels when they arrived. These were merely sailors who liked dueling not soldiers, duelists, or weapon masters that would be the equivalent investment of skill to Samurai. The Katana might have been the only non-European weapon that was seen to hold value in the whole world that Europeans found... but it was a backhanded compliment at best for that, the Katana was seen as a great "noob" weapon that could be used fairly effectively by ill trained user.
@@nationalsocialism3504 being seen as a “noob weapon” is a modern thing in the hema community; no historical records mention such thing. Also they (from what I know) never got into duels with each other as the sailors were there to trade and any fighting would ruin trade opportunities. An example of this was the Miyanomae incident which ended in a groups fight resulting in the Portuguese leaving Hirado to trade in different ports
Yes I would love to see your thoughts on how the Katana user could try and win, even at a disadvantage. I suspect those lessons would be applicable to longsword fighters as well, and that is something I have wondered a lot about
i think you missed that an katana is also an able stabber, so thinking that the katana wielder will mostly do an long windup slash, when he obviously know he's against an longer weapon isn't likely, also, 9:01 when you block, if you don't step back, the reach advantage is nulled, since the rapier needs distance to be in it's effective range, and in the effective range of the katana, and the rapier falls out of it's effective range since the point is harder to extend, just think of it like boxing, the longer armed boxer has the advantage if he maintains his distance, but if the shorter armed boxer dodges the strike, he can move in with more effective strikes. the rapier is all about effective range, since in closer quarter the rapier becomes awkward, as it's not an powerful chopper, even when sharpened, it's an 80/20 stabber/chopper meanwhile the katana, is like an 40/60, which is an balanced stabber/chopper sword. point is, i don't see any able swordsman that'll open up their guard, and use an low ranged, high wind up slash when the rapier is in the way, instead i think the katana user will try to hit the rapier out of the way, or wait for an opening before going for an stab, or an quick wrist slash with the guard still up. 2:23 lastly, people who practice kendo, aren't exactly realistic katana swordsmen, and are very different then kenjutsu.
Any info on the Spanish Circle aka Destreza? The Spanish fought against Pirates who had Japanese swords so I imagine the Spanish used that fighting style.
Good for mentioning that someone run through the skull has difficulty going up the blade but is not necessarily dead. I think people overestimate how much stopping power headshots from non-firearms have when they don't produce the neuron-destroying shockwaves that firearms do.
With the angled thrust and block as shown, how do you keep from losing your sword from that angled cut? If the samurai moves with the weapon before his body as is supposed to be the case the katana will impact and push the blade out of the way and your wrist position is at a weak hand position, the pressure could/ would tear the sword from your grip as shown
Related to single tempo defense & thrust. Multiple sources also mention defending against cuts with your sword after a successful thrust without withdrawing your point first. The positioning is often similar (for obvious reasons) to a single time thrust and our club's experiments have found it possible to "get behind your sword" surprisingly well even with the limited mobility of having your point more-or-less fixed in your opponent's chest or shoulder. There are also mentions of using your sword (after a successful thrust) as a lever to disrupt your opponent's motion. This is difficult to test, realistically; but anyone who's familiar with how challenging it can be to successfully deliver a one handed cut against an opponent who has gotten hold of your *_other_* arm can certainly understand the mechanism at play here. Just yanking a person's weight around can effectively disrupt a lot of intentional motions.
Great video! What about a katana vs a similar blade length military saber in a civilian self-defense situation? I'd imagine the katana has a defensive advantage due to a two-handed grip and a stiff and heavy blade. The saber would have the offensive reach advantage due to it being one-handed and held further away from the body. The katana's game plan would probably be block or deflect the saber's cut, then close in for a powerful two-handed cut that the saber man can't defend as easily. The katana would probably be better indoors/confined spaces due to the two-handed sword being held closer to the body than the one-handed saber. Also, what about katana and wakizashi vs rapier and dagger? The kat/wak could both be used to parry/deflect the rapier at range, then close in where the offensive capabilities of the kat/wak would far outweigh the rapier/dagger.
My money is on the military saber due to its superior hand protection. I am personally not a fan of the katana design for that reason - very limited hand protection.
Yeah, that is what I’m thinking this entire katana counters to rapier discussion. The advantages of the katana of bind and cutting don’t just go away cus you using in one handed and just you don’t have a dedicated offensive , defensive implement doesn’t mean you can’t improvise one. Just that the traditional sort of standard of using the katana is especially bad start to use against a rapier. Hell, this is dodge cus is a video game but it is basically a fencing stimulator, but hellish quart shows this in broadsword versus rapier. It is doesn’t take much ommph to redirect a lunge or a stab, you don’t need two hands on it. I’ll link the video asap
There is a video in which two koreans martial artist do this type of encounter and the user of the katana prevailed most of the fights. In the commentary, they address the ease in which the Japanese swords displaced the rapier, completely denying the reach advantage. I feel this has not been addressed at all and it is rather an important factor since it determined the outcomes of that engagement
Yeah, this video was made by weaponism, although there seems to be another longer video by a different channel as well. th-cam.com/video/jcwoBVUqlW0/w-d-xo.html - the video in question
The two-handed grip does give a leverage & strength advantage that helps with parrying, beating, deflecting, & so on. I agree Matt Easton has failed to give that sufficient mention in these videos. The reach difference still probably gives the rapier the advantage overall for unarmored single combat in the open, however.
@@b.h.abbott-motley2427 I would have argued the same but in that specific context, the amount of force required to completely push the weapon our of the way was minimal, while the effort for the rapier user to get the weapon in line was greater, giving the opportunity to the katana user to quickly close in. Clearly skill played a role but I'd say the reach advantage was pretty much nullified in that specific match
I think videos on strategy for different weapons that are contemporary to each other would be a really cool video series. Really helpful for thinking about how d&d fights would go
Ok guys, these pirates are coming at us with their katanas, so this is the plan: We are gonna POKE and RUN, POKE and run, and pivot, pivot pivot (read with Ross' voice)
Having the sword with better reach is one of the main reason that Miyamoto Musashi used a boat Oar to kill Sasaki Kojiro in their famous duel. As it it is well known Sasaki Kojiro uses a very long sword and uses one swift strike to kill his opponent in duels. Musashi specializes in using two handed sword to fight against multiple opponents but their sword length put him into a disadvantage. Therefore, he uses a boat Oar and shaved it up in the proper size and length. The other reason is to sort of insult Kojiro by using only a wooden sword to fight him, psych him up. According to accounts/legend, both swordsmen each struck one swift blow at the same time. Sasaki Kojiro’s sword just sliced off the Musashi’s head band, barely missing his head, while Musashi’s wooden sword was just enough length that it’s tip struck Kojiro’s Forehead, breaking his skull, killing him.
That's a good question. A katana is a battlefield weapon, and thus it's meant to be able to handle armored opponents. In contrast, the rapier is a civilian weapon intended for use with unarmored civilians. One could argue back and forth about how a rapier could circumvent armor, but the bottom line is that whenever you use a tool for something other than its intended purpose, you're usually going to have a bad time.
Rapier for life, 1 m long blade (40 inches), full hand covered, two crossguards to twist and deflect, a tip of the sword can penetrate coat of mail. The left hand holds a 20 inches dagger with full hand cover and it can penetrate joints of the armour or disarm anybody... Katana is just a big machete for both hands. A rapier is so acurate and deadly that it can deliver thrusts and get away without being hit back, the defense is greatly effective
I agree with everything you said here. However, and it is merely opinion, the only answer to this question is “it depends.” The terrain, the battle situation, the skill of each opponent and the dedication of each opponent makes a difference. Is it a duel or a battle setting? What is discussed here applies to a duel mostly. Attitude is huge. A rapier user usually intends to survive. I don’t know that was true of samurai, who would willingly die-believed it an honor in fact-to kill their enemy, especially in the Kamakura Period, but this attitude continued well into WWII. This willingness to die in close combat would be a huge factor in a historical duel, because a samurai would take a rapier shot to the body (not the head,lol) to cut his enemy down in a glorious (to his mind) death. That factor would be huge historically. I also believe samurai trained more than Europeans on a daily basis, because of culture, but that is subjective. In a battle, of course, a rapier holder would have to face many opponents at once, many with bows and yari or naginata. Since most modern people wish to live in a duel, what you advocate here makes perfect sense. In the end, however, every duel is as unique as the individuals involved, and luck and surprise do matter. The most likely outcome of equally skilled fighters would most likely end in a mutual kill, which a samurai would be content with. Not so much a European. Thanks for this great analysis on how to survive the katana with a rapier.
Great video!! As a [ poor !!] fencer this is very interesting...One aspect you missed is that Samurai era Japanese were really diminutive! If you look at contemporary paintings and compare sword size most Samurai are not much over 5 feet tall....In comparison Spanish/Dutch/Portuguese are significantly taller and larger...This will add to the advantages of the rapier reach...
Paintings can only be reliable to an extent, swords were actually longer before the edo period where new laws were made that restrict blade length. You have records of very large samurai.
@@eagle162 true...But it is a contemporary bit of evidence...The same is true for Highlanders during the '45.....When compared to their targes most Highlanders were just over 5 foot tall.... And yes there were very tall Japanese...In WW2 admiral Ozawa was 6 foot 7!
Quick question, how hard is it for a two handed sword to push the single handed sword out of the way? If you were to try and block a two handed sword (any two handed sword, not just a Katana) with a rapier wouldn't leverage just push through your guard?
Leverage is a big advantage for a two-handed grip. It may allow blowing through some parries, but well-executed one with the forte of the rapier will stop any strike from a katana, longsword, or similar. However, the kantana or other two-handed sword can effectively push the rapier around at length (away from the forte), deflecting thrusts, binding, beating, & so on.
You assume blocks are static, but in swordsmanship, this is rarely the case unless fully reactionary and will probably end up with you wounded or dead.
@@wesleyviers1550 I hear what you are saying, but the cut didn't stop just because you want it to either. The question is how easy would it be to push a rapier block off line with the extra leverage of a two handed sword.
After watching this as always excellent video, both might die. The rapierist right there with missing body parts, and the katana maybe a few days to a few weeks later from infection from the stab. As far as all out winning, it'd be in the case where duelist is much better than the other, weapon would not matter.
Going for the face and neck areas is an excellent (and in all likelihood game-ending strategy), but what about the hand? If I was fighting against a katana wielder with a rapier, I would definitely try to target the hand/arm with quick small amplitude cuts from the outside. Hands are extremely fragile and it wouldn’t take much to disable the opponent after a couple of good hits.
Something a lot of fencers don't practice and they should. Any real swordsman knows the wrist is a primary target. If he doesn't have a functional hand, he isn't a very good swordsman.
@@wesleyviers1550 If you don't keep your opponent under threat properly then you lose. Focusing on your opponent's hand is a great way to give them a chance to kill you.
I love how your first two suggestions are also the solutions to the 21-foot rule if armed with a handgun and being charged by someone with a knife. Backpedal or side-step and try to land an immediately incapacitating hit like the brain or spine.
Actually, the best thing you can do if you have a gun and you are being charged by someone with a knife... is to fall to the ground and use your legs as guard as you pull the trigger. You will win 99.9% of the time if you follow this tactic, even if he is closer than 21 feet.
@@wesleyviers1550 I agree that dropping onto your back can be one excellent tactic, but it's not "actually, the best". It's very situational and there are pros and cons to each. Cons to dropping to your back include that you could easily put your legs in line with your muzzle, especially if you're flustered while doing it. Very few people practice shooting from that position. It's not a good idea if your back is to a wall. It's also not a very good tactic for older and/or fat folk who might not do a good job of dropping to the ground. Not to be dogmatic and say "my way works and yours doesn't". There are also big cons to backpedaling and side-stepping, including tripping, not being able to do so in tight spaces, and the fact that very few people practice shooting while moving backwards or sideways. The only con to delivering a CNS, "lights out" hit is that it's hard to do, especially after a quick draw. The advantages are that a guy charging you with a knife is making your "lights out" target bigger with every step he takes if you can keep your cool, and it's a tactic you can use while dropping to your back, backpedaling, or sidestepping. Dropping is an especially excellent tactic if you have experience in martial arts where you do ground work and can effectively use your legs to defend your vitals.
the quick draw is more of a emergency defense because Samuari were archers, or to hide the length of your weapon in a due. Not really useful when charging it's just better to have it out already.
@@jonajo9757 No a large number of them were archers up till the 18th century.... Most samuari used aquebuses and bows in the sengoku jidai, and in the boshin war most of them used muskets and rifles. Ranged warfare was king in Japan for the most part.
Matt, been watching for several years and enjoy your show. Not rapier vs Katana, but the final scene in Rob Roy has rapier vs basket hilt Scottish sword. Roy is stabbed several times before he finally lands one devastating blow on the English. At least, that's what I remember. Cheers
@williamvesey3679 I was remembering the scene from 20+ years ago. It made an impression on me. Found the scene on TH-cam after I posted. I'll find Matt's review. Thanks for the info.
Extremely feasible, especially the kind with large S shaped or D guard knuckle bows if you want to treat it like parrying dagger. You dont have to change anything about your fencing however if you just keep the knife for grappling range, by holding your arm behind your back messer style, or your fist on your hip as usual by holding the knife in a ice pick grip.
The Paulus Hector Mair Rapier pictures show various types of daggers being used in the off-hand from elaborate hilts and long quillions to a rondel dagger or the like. It’s tougher to parry with knife, but doable with a little practice…
I love how the video is phrased like I was just about to land my Black Ship to the shores of the rising sun and I needed to know how my trusty sidearm will hold up.
I would suggest using a French Musketeer rapier with a 3'3" blade and shell guard as it is a far better weapon and the cutting edge makes a real difference. I do agree to mantain distance as all fighters should. I would however suggest staying further away and cutting the fingers and forearm at least on of witch is always uncovered with the Katana. On a side note i suspect you are used to using a weapon in both hands at once judging by seeing you withdraw the weapon from both the reposte and the parry.
It would be great to see a demonstration of these principals with HEMA practice sessions.
I agree, it would be cool
Here is a sparring video between the two weapons: th-cam.com/video/_gndIJnmS5o/w-d-xo.html
Though the rapierist is using both cut and thrust while Matt’s rapier seems to be highly thrust centric
Thank you!
AHF have done that a few times. Here's one: th-cam.com/video/IF2wLZBUEi4/w-d-xo.html
There's quite a few of them I think.
*FINALLY* someone is addressing a serious source of anxiety for me. I actually considered replacing my rapier, even if only to stop people from calling me a rapierist.
I love the way Matt spends so much time explaining why stabbing someone in the face is a reliable way to stop them. Thanks for the video!
I thought it was the funniest part of the video. Like... duh, lol.
I recently watched an interesting couple of videos on the anatomy of a headshot (with a gun).
One of the points was that, in cases where people have survived, the chances were vastly increased by the bullet traversing from front to back, or vice versa.
Wounds that pass from one hemisphere of the brain into the other are far more deadly.
I wonder how much this translates to thrusting blade wounds.
You hear stories of people surviving metal bars embedded in their heads.
It may be that a thrust through the face, into the brain, isn't as guaranteed a stopping blow as casual common sense might lead one to assume.
@@Murdo2112I think you're confusing stopping blows with lethal blows. Have you ever seen video footage of people with pointy metal bits protruding through their faces? They really can't do much, I imagine they can barely even register anything through all the shock and overwhelming adrenaline high.
Hmm, maybe.
Was just something I was wondering.
@@Murdo2112 don't take me as an expert on physical trauma and what human beings can accomplish under extreme duress, ofc, but it seemed like a distinction worth noting to me 👌
Mr. Easton, I've been watching for years but rarely comment. I love your channel so much. Not only are you incredibly well-read and experienced/knowledgeable in the topics you cover, you never actually (as far as I know) show a bias towards any one particular school of combat, culture, weapon, etc. You never "fanboy out", if you will, about anything and your content covers such a wide variety of weapons/cultures. Moreover, your genuine passion for the topics is always so evident in every video. I just wanted to thank you so much for the hours of education and entertainment! Thank you for all that you do :)
Yes, i always love Matt's Matter-of-fact, neutral approach. Makes it my favorite channel from the swords community.
I would say he fanboys out on all weapon types equally. I would say that he fanboys out on any new strange sword he adds to his collection, be it British, Indian, Afgan, Philipino, etc... Bonus points if it's wootz, because wootz ;) Not fanboying out in the sense of not being objective, but fanboying out in the sense of "look at how cool this weird/strange/non-regulation weapon that I just added to my collection is"
Of course he is bias and he shows it at times. That said, I agree that he does a pretty good job of showing respect and doing what he can to limit how his bias impacts the lessons. Everyone is bias. I'm bias towards the katana and I admit the rapier has the edge in a duel, because I've practiced swordfighting for years. I'd still pick the katana and fight any other swordsman. That doesn't mean I don't respect the skill and ability of those who are skilled with a rapier. I think he has respect for people like me who practice Japanese swordsmanship, even if he has bias against it because he trains in HEMA. He knows someone with a katana could still kill him but he feels confident with his sword of choice. Same with me, of course the rapier could kill me, and has a reach advantage, but I'd still feel confident squaring off against one with a katana
Count me interested in the reverse, as the katana against the rapier.
I feel there's going to be a lot of interesting and quite focused efforts at deflection, pushing the rapier out of the way.
Well, the theory is rather simple, problem is putting it into practice.
You need to be aggressive and close that gap. There's no way you're winning a duel against a rapier fencer while keeping your distance; you're basically getting yourself into a spear vs longsword situation: the advisable move is getting close enough to turn the rapier's strength against it, and if you pull it off it will usually work out well for you.
There's just one small, pointy and very possible problem: daggers. A rapier usually comes with a dagger, and this means you can't get THAT close. However, if you're asking about dealing exclusively with a rapier, the best course of action is to deflect a strike or hit the blade to the side, and immediately get close enough to deliver a cut. Do have in mind that a rapier is flexible and nibble; it will be back after you immediately if the fencer is a skilled one.
Want a way more simple solution? Wear heavy armor. Bit unfair too
I wonder if using the saya as an off-hand weapon would make sense.
@@jenssylvesterwesemann7980It would probably get in the way of various techniques and eliminate the strength/leverage advantage a two handed blade offers.
If you want to double-wield, you need a Tantō or a Wakizashi: shorter blades that essentially fulfill the same role as fencing daggers. If your opponent is only using a rapier and you're versed in Daishō, you could use it to your advantage.
@@addictedtochocolate920About eight year's ago, I had a cup hilt rapier made by Arms 'n Armor,when they were still making that model and able to pound out the cup. I requested a 42" blade length, it was a very well made sword, I also requested a slightly shorter grip. When your arm is extended with 42" of thrust centric point, only a fool would try to chop his way through. I also mentioned most rapierists carried Maine Gauches to finish the job, a trained swordsman would go for Arterial areas.
My teacher called that following the blade it's probably the worst thing you can do against someone with a rapier especially if you have the shorter weapon.
The weight of the guard brings the weight all the way back to your hand so you only need a small movement to replace your point so trying to displace it would be pointless, you'd be best aiming to cut into it for a bind but it's still a lot better suited to cutting or thrusting from there than you'd be
Thank god I found this! All I own is a rapier and I’ve been afraid to go to a nearby mall because everyone there carries katanas! But seriously, however inapplicable the situation you present may be to modernity, you use it to share deep and insightful conclusions I could never arrive at myself.
Everyone at the mall, or flea market are "katana expert's " and watched "Kill Bill" too many times. Historical texts are the best methods to study how both Rapiers/sides words and Katana's and various Samurai weapons were used. I do remember there was an Iron rod with an upper guard catcher that was wrapped in cord, that Japanese police used to stop a Katana...forgot the name, but it looked effective.
Japanese police had all kinds of stuff if some of the historical art I’ve seen is to believed. One of them was a polearm that had a head set 90 degrees (like a groundskeepers rake) and barbs all over it. Supposedly they used them to catch the ample robes of samurai and pin them to a wall or whatever, all outside of sword reach.
Matt, I don't know how good are you fencing, but I have to say that your english pronounciation is simply top class, one of the best or just the best I have heard in TH-cam
It's not only a problem of the length of the blade, but also that katana is generally most effective if handled with both hands. So not only is the blade shorter, but also the reach. And if the rapierist is also holding a dagger or the like in his other hand it is possible to catch the katana or stab and slice the katana-wielder scoured on your rapier.
You need to keep in mind that most katana wielders also had a wakizashi in the belt, so they could try something similar.
@@amacadre - schools like the Niten Ichi-ryū taught using two weapons exactly like that.
@@amacadre And using the ni ten method they certainly would ;)
The Samurai had techniques for beating spears with a sword.
@@amacadre Yes, around the same time the rapier started to exist the japanese started requiring Samurai to carry Daisho (two swords) when on duty.
I have actually participated in this matchup. I was giving a rapier seminar to kendo students in Japan and they eventually (as people are wont to do) felt the need to test themselves with their shinai against my rapier. They would inevitably charge but reach of my rapier combined with a lightning lunge to the mask was extraordinarily effective at stopping everything. Wherever the head goes, the body must follow.
The problem is they are kendo and not kenjutsu. The shinai have little in common with a katana as they lack the curve. Real katana technique has more subtleties and angles
@@davefletch3063 not just that but a katana with proper weight can use it’s levers and easily manipulate the rapiers point. Shinai do not have that kind of weight/leverage
Yes kendo-ka don't really know how to fight, but I would argue that most sport fencers don't really know how to fight either. Both are a sport with rules and specific targets. Still, your point is fair. A kenjutsu practitioner would do much better in general. One of my kenjutsu/iaijutsu students went into a kendo school nearby and wiped the floor with every one of their students because they don't actually know how swords work.
@@wesleyviers1550 but OP is a hema practitioner not an Olympic fencer. He gave a lecture in rapier not foil.
@@davefletch3063 no curve would save them from pointy stick in whatever area is open.
Como ya comenté en el vídeo anterior, estos dos tipos de espadas ya se probaron en los combates entre los tercios de Filipinas contra piratas japoneses. El rango, la movilidad y la versatilidad de la ropera española de 2 filos que se usaron ( también hay de 1 solo filo) fueron decisivas contra las katanas japonesas. Aunque se presente como un arma de estocada, la ropera, aunque no llega ni de lejos a la capacidad de corte de la katana) tenía el filo suficiente para, aprovechando su movilidad, causar pequeñas heridas que debilitaban al oponente, sobre todo en las manos poco protegidas, lo cual dificultaba el manejo al rival
With combination of shield and spear we use similar principles.
1. Keep distance using side steps (force him to change vector of his charge to lower momentum)
2. Hit his face or arm with weapon
3. Learn how to use weapon at very short distance (over head for exaple)
4. If he is closing just shorten the distance even more and use grapling skills or dagger rather than fighting in "his" distance.
These tactics are also used in a pretty good dark souls 3 PVP set-up: Glaive/Halberd plus offhand straight sword.
“The effect of having a blade stuck in the middle of your face would, I think, make it quite difficult to keep moving forward.” -Matt Easton, 2023.
Wikipedia: *citation needed*
As a Kenjutsu practitioner i would appreciate a "how to beat a rapier with a katana without going into kys mode", but I'm guessing it's just gonna involve closing the gap and avoiding getting a punctured lung with high levels of luck and skill.
I think a lot of people try not to get HIT or CUT and that’s why they never rush their opponents, when that’d exactly what you should do against a rapier that doesn’t hit or cut as easily as a saber
If it's like longsword against rapier, the katana should be able to use the greater leverage & strength of the two-handed grip to parry, beat, & deflect the rapier. The significantly shorter blade on the katana would make this more difficult.
@@ArfooHuroorather not get turned into Skewered meat
@@b.h.abbott-motley2427this can be done... With an O-katana or a Nodachi, but not with your regular sized, edo-period katana, at least not that easily.
I mean, if you give me a Nodachi this becomes a whole new kind of discussion entirely, and i do have many ideas(?
@@addictedtochocolate920 what school of kenjutsu do you study? Do they teach or have kata on how to fight against a spear? If so you can use similar principles against the rapier
Great video Matt. I would definitely tune in for your insights on making the most of the katana in a katana vs. rapier match.
I have not studied HEMA but I have practiced some Japanese Kobudo and the prevailing wisdom of the dojo could be summed up as "longer really is better." :)
The concepts you presented in this video are remarkably consistent with my weapons training.
The problem is, he isn't really a katana guy. I mean, he knows some basics and respects the sword I'm sure, but just watching him hold and cut with it, it is clear it isn't his weapon of choice.
@@wesleyviers1550 seems like he is also not a human, cause he forgot that humans have two arms. And in second one could be a dagger for example
thank you so much for addressing the fact that the stab isn't an insta kill. I had a lot convos with other hema people and none of them ever wanted to acknowledge that.
Also I feel like alot of people forget that their are other katana like weapons such as the wakazashi and odachi which have smaller and longer blades.
As a rapier wielder, I found it very challenging when katana is handled like a rapier against rapeir
How so?
@@muthpeterpatrikI would assume, that because the katana has a lot of weight on the blade, if the katana user is trusting, the rapier will have a hard time deflecting it, also the katana has a few one handed trusts with the left hand, giving the katana user a surprising amount of reach
@@dylanpagliaccetti6758 I dont practice neither weapons, but afaik the rapier has superior reach and manuverability, I don't think that there can be a really fast thrust made by the katana.
In the book of five rings Mushashi wrote :" there is no fast way to wield the long sword(katana)"
But as I said Im just guessing here.
It’s be interesting to hear Japanese perspective/accounts of European weapons! love your videos on historical accounts for perspective!
I think the modern 21 foot rule might have to be increased to the 25 foot rule if they have a rapier lol.
What about a pike?
@@JamesRowlandsRocks 21 mile rule.
@@JamesRowlandsRocks I suspect it's also the 25-foot rule. Pikes are pretty slow (they're both heavy and rather awkward, due to their length) and probably very difficult to control while running, due to the very, _very_ distant point of balance.
The 21 foot rule was established in a court case using Chuck Norris attaching a police officer with his gun holstered. A cop shot an unarmed man who took a karate stance about 20 ft away and said he felt threatened.
If a world champion martial artists attacks the average person from 21 feet away, he gets hit before he can draw the gun.
This distance can be adjusted if the man with the gun is Jerry Michalak.
"21 feet" is all hyperbole.
@@electronsmove I believe this.
these principles are very similar to yari (spear) vs katana techniques in japanese martial arts
on throwing your weapon: "Only Porthos could invent a new way of disarming himself." - Aramis
I think I was one of the people that commented on your last video 😄
It is really eye opening to use a variety of weapons and I 100% agree that from what I've found transitioning from Japanese martial arts to our own European martial arts is that in an individual or 2-3 on 1 situation when you have the space to engage, disengage and manage your distance, the Rapier does give you a significant advantage, not a sure thing obviously but I could definately see the difference 🙂
I'm glad that my teacher seems to be of the same train of thought as you on this Matt, single or double tempo parries, thrusts and slashes in and out of the bind mixed with engaging and disengaging thrusts and slashes to control your distance 🙂
I'd only add that my Jujutsu teacher always used to tell me to "finish the move" so follow a crippling or killing blow with a disengage, throw or grapple to be sure they're no longer a threat
"And, as always, restomp that groin."
@@crazypetec-130fe7A little cold but yeah if it works 😄
1:45 That is the reason why we then moved from the 1911 in .45 ACP to lower-caliber handguns with better-quality ammo (hollow-points at higher pressures) and larger magazine capacity, and started really emphasizing shot placement. As one well-known American firearms luminary has put it, handguns poke holes in people, rifles poke holes through people. I would go further and say that rifles put pounds of pressure through people and tend to produce much more tissue damage than pistols do, and are generally more reliable fight-stoppers because of that. If you're using a handgun, unless you get a central nervous system hit, all you've really done is start an invisible timer that counts down until the assailant becomes disabled due to the injury, and more rounds into the assailant will shave seconds off of that timer. The two incidents that really taught American law enforcement these lessons, painfully, were the Trooper Coates incident, and the Miami-Dade shooting.
Autogenerated subtitles really did Matt dirty here.
Great video, Mat !!
Most Rapierists would carry either a Maine Gauche, or Sail Gaurd Maine Gauche (most Preferable ) Always use point, both swordsmen can move quickly, honestly first parry , hit into soft target area, use Say Maine Gauche to sever Clavical Artery or throat. Always pray that if they cut you. It's not in any major vein or arterial area. There was an article written where several Portuguese swordsmen had killed Samurai....Again, if there are anyone who has heard or knows about the article that would be great. Seriously, I agree with Matt, the Katana is a gorgeous and very well made sword, and is an excellent cutter, no offense to those who like Katana's , Wakazashi's, No-Dachi's etc.
Thinking on this topic a second time...
Honestly it's the same issue an arming sword has against a spear or well a rapier or a two-handed sword in some cases.
And if you are the one with the longer weapon your goal is always to control the biggest advantage you have which is reach.
Subsequently that means that timing anything wrong, hitting a part that isn't immediately fatal, not having the strength and stamina or stay on par, misjudging distance, failure of technique to angle, or being lured into a disadvantage are all factors that could lead to your demise.
In western treatise for instance a person might take their cloak and use it in their off hand in place of a knife to act as an impromptu buckler, sword catch, parry, or to blind their opponent in a critical moment. Any opponent with a shorter weapon could try the same, ultimately presenting a target that getting hit isn't fatal enough of a loss to overcome the reach advantage.
Just because you can thrust and reach doesn't mean you'll always hit. Nor does it mean your hits will be fatal.
In the context of a duel by first blood or contact then obviously a longer weapon could get away with something without much commitment.
But if it was a duel to the death, and both are unarmored, all non-fatal wounds are meaningless.
You could look at the film Rob Roy (1995) as an example, where a much longer and lighter blade poked holes in the protagonist all day, but in the end his basket hilt broadsword cut down his foe who tired and made a fatal error.
Coming full circle the one with the long poker wants the put the point through something critical. And the one who doesn't want to be a pin cushion wants to get past the point. It's a matchup as old as time.
Again (!):
Historically, from the late 16th century and especially following the Sengoku Jidai (ie after ca. 1615), samurai would be carrying daishō.
Modern Kobudo (Japanese martial arts dating from after 1868) - like most Iaidō-schools (post 1932) - don’t necessarily have much (if ANY) focus on practice with two swords.
Traditional Ko-ryū, however, DO often provide training in dual sword-techniques - to some extent or other.
Historical evidence thus do suggest, that a Sengoku- or Edo-period samurai could have deployed his shōtō (tantō or wakizashi) in conjunction with his daitō (tachi or katana) in order to improve his odds against an opponent with a range-advantage. Such as a European rapier-wielder. Including parrying the rapier, before cutting down (!) said European rapier-wielder. Of course, the rapier-wielder could be brandishing a dagger of his own - though it would probably be much shorter than a standard wakizashi…(!).
It doesn’t make much sense to look at this scenario, solely from a HEMA-perspective… 🤔🎓
The historical samurai-class developed martial arts schools (Ko-ryū), teaching combined weapons techniques - including fencing (kenjutsu) - both for battlefield use against armoured adversaries; and techniques against foes without armour (in peacetime). Kenjutsu, after all, is more than vertical, diagonal and horizontal cutting, combined with guttural growls and shrill screams (as most reasonable people thankfully know…) 😁 ⚔️🤓
I wonder why they didnt use the Sai? Its better suited to the task with those quillons. I guess it was only used on Okinawa?
The left hand dagger or main gauche can be used in conjunction with the rapier as well, a purpose made off hand weapon with blade trapping quillons,look at things like the the Sail Dagger and Sword Breaker as well, not to mention wheel lock pistols...
@@Kinetic.44 I agree; and this was kinda my point! ☺️
There are several ways to use "left hand" techniques - and the Japanese developed several (!) of their own.
Few truly skilled samurai would have just "kamikaze"d themselves into a competent foreign warrior’s sharp, pointed weapon. That’s both preposterous - and ahistorical (!)…
Just as Matt is a proponent of looking at the historical sources for HEMA; I point to real traditional Ko-ryū. Both traditions can learn great lessons from each other, that I wholeheartedly believe! ☺️
Fascinating stuff, Matt! I would be very interested in seeing a video from the opposite side of the fight. I often think the fighter with the more difficult job has the more interesting tale to tell, so would absolutely love to hear your opinion on how the katana-wielding swordsman would overcome a rapierist!
The only technique I can figure comes from my boxing days. As a short for weight fighter... I was always trying to corner my opponent to take away his reach advantage and prevent him escaping my more powerful blows. The problem is I nearly always had to take a punch to get inside his reach. Which is likely true for the katana wielder as well. You just hope the strike you take isn't fatal...and the one you deliver is!
A samurai always carries a katana and a wakizashi (they usually don't carry only a katana), so by throwing a wakizashi or using two wields like Miyamoto Musashi, I think can expand fighting style a bit more.
Not as much of an advantage, as these videos demonstrate.
th-cam.com/video/jcwoBVUqlW0/w-d-xo.html
th-cam.com/video/_gndIJnmS5o/w-d-xo.html
@@犬まにまに If you are talking about additional weapons throwing a musket ball out of a wheel lock pistol works much better than throwing a knife. The left hand dagger or main gauche was often used in conjunction with the rapier as well, negating any advantage of the wakasashi. Its a superior purpose made off hand weapon as well look at the Sail Dagger in particular.
@@犬まにまに And Rapierists train with an accompanying main gauche dagger! Have you ever wielded a katana singlehandedly? If you have, you know they were designed to be used two handed.
Great analysis. I also wondered about dual wielding katana as some schools taught (albeit a small number).
You raised a very salient point about reach. The jo, or short staff, was used very effectively to counter the lack of reach of sword-wielding people for just that reason. People shouldn't underestimate just how much extra reach you can get by turning your body or extending an arm. Similarly how much you can shorten a weapon retracting your arm (pardon the pun).
Musashi said that for dueling, one sword is better, but on a battlefield, two swords are better. "With 1 sword, you can do 1 thing. With 2 swords, you can do 4 things." As someone who has trained for 20 years with katanas, including niten, I would have to agree. I would never opt to use two swords in a duel personally. Not to say it can't be done of course, only fools make absolutes in combat, but in general, I'd feel much better with one.
I would definitely be interested in seeing how the katana wielder could win. I like seeing mismatched weapons and figuring out how one could out maneuver the other.
get stabbed in a non-lethal area... go in for the killing blow.
Katana wielder wins on the draw in most cases. And in the fight using the curvature of the blade along with committed cuts from off angles
By knocking the rapier blade far off the center and charging in to close the distance, because despite the reach advantage, the rapier has a disadvantage in leverage, due to being a one-handed sword with a longer blade balanced closer to the hilt, while the katana, being a two-handed sword with a shorter blade balanced further from the hilt, will have a leverage disadvantage: thrusts with a rapier can be knocked aside relatively more easily than the rapier can parry cuts from a katana. These videos demonstrate this quite well, the participants are almost evenly matched, and both depict and explain how the reach advantage and the leverage disadvantage of the rapier cancel each other out, leaving personal skill the determining factor
th-cam.com/video/jcwoBVUqlW0/w-d-xo.html
th-cam.com/video/_gndIJnmS5o/w-d-xo.html
@@Vlad_Tepes_III Those videos show a rapier against a 400g shinai. Shinai win against everything because they simply aren't actual weapons.
@@spicketspaghet7773 the second video didn’t use a shinai and perfectly demonstrates what @Vlad_Tepes_III said about the difference in leverage
When I was in sport fencing 🤺 with Epee I loved retreating a few times to draw them in and then unleashing my full 6’4” in a lunge to the mask. Definitely made my opponent adjust their spacing
Wasn't the rapier used together with a short dagger? Used for parrying and short range combat?
Just wanna say, great choice of topic 👏
Great vid mate - very entertaining, definitely an appetite for various katana / longsword/ gladius / rapier / sabre etc v each other weaknesses and strengths.
Cheers
Another solution or help, that was used historically, is to have shorter weapon with rapier like parrying dagger.
A couple wheel lock pistols as well...
If we're going to do that to be fair we should let whoever's got the Katana to use a Wakazashi with it, changes the situation completely
@@valandil7454 it doesn't when the the rapier user has a left hand dagger as well
The after blow of the katana is a very important thing to bring up. Because of movies and video games people often don't realize that after being stabbed or even shot people very often keep going for a bit even if the wound is ultimately fatal. You can't just shoot someone charging you or stab them with a long range weapon. You have to be prepared with a plan to defend yourself if they are able to close distance after taking your hit.
i practiced kendo about fifty years ago. in single combat, the rapier will more often be effective. your advice is excellent. one point that you might have overlooked is that the 'kote' (wrist) is one of the most common attacks in kendo. the range advantage to head or torso attacks favors the rapier, but the range of the katana to the wrist is much shorter. i would not like to face a rapier with a katana, but the wrist would completely stop the rapier attack. as to disabling ONE arm of the kendoist might not incapacitate him sufficiently. one of the long range kendo attacks uses only the 'weak' hand, it is almost ballistic. i would NOT like to take that chance, however.
Why even bother asking Matt, OF COURSE there's an appetite for a follow up video!
Yes please to the other video, I've thoughly enjoyed the mental gymnastics of playing this out in my head with your last couple vids!
Solid practical advice, thanks
Also, good rapier swordsmen are extremely fast in all directions. If they have a place like an arena fight, they will never take risk like blocking, reposting, etc. The rapier will just punch from a safe distance while he chats on his phone :) Outside of our arena, things change drastically.
1) Is it practical to parry or catch a strong cut from a Katana with a Parrying Dagger? 2) In combat shooting there is a concept called Failure To Stop. If a gunshot to centre of mass does not stop the assailant, the second shot is to the face below the brow line which should destroy the brain stem and cause instant death. Moral: Stab them in the face through to the hind brain whenever you can.
Thank you for this. I do like these small technique tid-bits. Be well and do continue to be Matt Easton.
If you catch the katana on the strong near the basket/quillions of the dagger, you’ll be fine - works well against Sideswords and Longswords. Or, if you Let-off with Hanging blade, while stepping-around, you should be okay. If you just try to parry nonchalantly, you will be destroyed, as can happen with a strong cut from a Rapier or any other weapon pushing through the weak of your blade. 😂 However, Meyer tells us how to defeat this problem with Rapier & Dagger (or any two weapons) coming together in a Cross-guard. When you cross your blades about the mid-points, you create a scissor-shape, the goal is to catch the blow between the “scissor-blades” and the moment you do this and have absorbed the impact force, then you can hold-off with the dagger, while immediately cutting or thrusting with the Rapier (or vice-versa if in close-measure). I can sometimes get 2 or 3 cuts off (usually cross-cuts to either side of the neck, with a cut across the legs and/or arms) before my opponent recovers from flailing after my blade to start parrying properly again. The advantage of two-weapons vs one is quite pronounced once you get used to managing two weapons, so you don’t get all bound-up on yourself… 😁
@@chadherbert18 Wow! What a comprehensive reply to an off-handed question. Very clear too - I actually understood what you were describing. Thank you very much for taking the time and going to the trouble to educate me. I appreciate that a great deal. Cheers!
@@kaoskronostyche9939 No worries, always glad to offer-up some HEMA wisdom when I have it! :)
This is why I prefer scoring systems that allow generous time for an afterblow and only count clean hits where you don't catch an afterblow.
Yeah, much better when it isn't resembling real combat.
Armor also should be included)
Cup-hilted rapiers are so....awesome. Like a buckler and a lightweight estoc combined. So lethal!
I'm very interested in the reverse :D
Thank you for this great video, looking forward to the next one!
How does a main-gauche play into this? Or is it to light for this type of confrontation?
I’d thrust, backpedal, while using Meyer’s Cross-guard defence with Rapier & Dagger. Then while riposting with a thrust or cut, hold-off their Katana, aborting with Rapier when needed, to again use Cross-guard, then Riposting while Holding-off with dagger. This is basically how I fence with Rapier & Dagger anyway and it all works because of decent perception and measure control - no super-powers needed! 😂
Great information as always Matt, thanks. I was wondering how much would change if the samurai was fully armored and the rapierist had breast / back plate and helmet . Conqestodor armor so to speak. Could the rapier punch thru Japanese armor. Or would it be a face and exposed arm duel .lol just wondering your thought. Cheers from new Jersey.
Later high-grade Japanese armor (tosei gusoku) was based on a breastplate strong enough to withstand bullets, so at least for the torso area, both COULD have similar levels of protection.
I'd love to see the counter arguments. Would I be right in thinking space management is going to important for the katana wielder here?
Managing your space and distance is important for any fight armed or unarmed but in this situation definately
Whoever has the Katana should be set on closing the gap and taking up as much space as possible, Rapiers like that are at their best at full reach and it isn't that easy to use one to parry heavier blows so press the attack don't give them any room
These two videos are an adequate depiction of both weapons in sparring
th-cam.com/video/jcwoBVUqlW0/w-d-xo.html
th-cam.com/video/_gndIJnmS5o/w-d-xo.html
Interesting in theory but I guess it would be more historically accurate to compare the rapier with the curved ottoman swords. The Spanish and the ottoman fought a considerable number of battles, from the siege of Malta, Lepanto, Castelnuovo and many smaller battles and raids. Both contenders had developed techniques to maximize their advantages and minimize their weaknesses.
I wouldn't mind a katana against rapier video. My guess is it would have similarities with sword vs spear.
What about the use of a main gauche to parry?
Matt’s got it figured out!
An issue not mentioned in the video is that the rapier is a one-handed weapon versus a katana, which is a two-handed weapon.
This means that the rapierist has the luxury of using a buckler or other shield in their off hand; wheras the katana weilder has no such option.
Good video and goods points. I do wonder about a couple of things: a rapier thrust capable of penetrating Samurai armor would have to be a very well executed thrust. Also, even though a katana will not cut through a rapier blade, a simple parry with rapier will not likely stop the momentum of a katana cut. The cut may have enough force to continue in its arc and still cut you even if you manage to get your rapier in position to parry. I think you would have to expertly use the juncture of blade and hilt somehow to effectively stop the cut. Interesting topic for sure.
It's a fairly standard question when most people learn to use smaller, slimmer blades especially the Spanish cup hilted rapiers like that or the French Smallsword.
When you parry a blow even with a larger weapon like a staff or longsword you should avoid directly opposing it, the forms we learn are specifically to get us used to moving and deflecting, it is more difficult especially when it's something a lot bigger so the Katana would be harder to stop 🙂
As for the Rapier or any weapon against armour it would obviously depend on the armour, but if we look at the most protective in Japan the Toseigusoku or oyoroi so lamellar or plated armour you'd obviously be better off with a rapier because you could just about bruise someone through that with a cut. Comparing European to Japanese plated armour the Japanese would actually be easier to deal with with a rapier as it has less overlapping plates so more places to drive the point, you'd just have to deal with the mail underneath then 🙂
The scenario seems to assume both fighters are unarmored
You generally do not want to use a rapier against armor in the first place. It is a specialized unarmored civilian/dueling sword.
Would likely not be an armor battle situation
There is a nice technique that I've seen fencers do and I've done many times with a katana where you essentially cut them and they go to block and you simply cut through, pulling the cut back slightly to pass the sword, and follow up with a thrust. I imagine that a good swordsman isn't just going to stand there and let you do that every time. It is like how many aikido techniques work great, if the guy just stands there and lets you do it. The technique will work if you see the parry and you are quick but you can't assume it will work every time because likely they aren't just trying to block your attack but also trying to cut/stab you as well.
If your plan is to stop their cut, you will fail, every time. It is about using angles of attack. Few real swordsmen are going to slam swords against one another at full force. That isn't really how blocks tend to work unless of course that is all you have time to do, but then you are reacting rather than acting and will probably lose anyway.
Maybe another video on secondary weapons carried by each type of fighter, Left hand dagger and Wakizashi. I think it would be interesting to look at style of two weapon fighting used at the time by the combatants to give them different offense and defense options.
It's no comparison the left hand dagger ( mein gauche) is a purpose made weapon, quillions that trap the opposing blade not mention things like the sword breaker and sail dagger
I was think of style or tactic of using the sword as defense and the dagger as offense when the Samurai closes the distance. Also look at two hand vs one hand from both points of view. the fact is that alot of time a dagger and Wakizashi were carried with the their matching sword so maybe at hand during a fight. options change things sometimes.
@@Kinetic.44
MATT WE NEED TO SEE SUCH TECHNIQUED DEMONSTRATED LIKE " BATTLEFIELD SABRE " THE ONE YOU DID WITH PEDRO
I would be more interested in the reverse, how does the Katana wielder survive a rapier attack?
Not well... the Portuguese sailors just ran through the Japanese Samurai in duels when they arrived. These were merely sailors who liked dueling not soldiers, duelists, or weapon masters that would be the equivalent investment of skill to Samurai. The Katana might have been the only non-European weapon that was seen to hold value in the whole world that Europeans found... but it was a backhanded compliment at best for that, the Katana was seen as a great "noob" weapon that could be used fairly effectively by ill trained user.
Run away and be faster.
Reach really REALLY matters.
@nationalsocialism3504 Well we found the Nazi guys! Literally in the name!
Start the conflict up close.
Reach really, really matters
@@nationalsocialism3504 being seen as a “noob weapon” is a modern thing in the hema community; no historical records mention such thing. Also they (from what I know) never got into duels with each other as the sailors were there to trade and any fighting would ruin trade opportunities. An example of this was the Miyanomae incident which ended in a groups fight resulting in the Portuguese leaving Hirado to trade in different ports
Thanks for the Information...I'll keep it in mind next time I go back to the 15 Century
Yes I would love to see your thoughts on how the Katana user could try and win, even at a disadvantage. I suspect those lessons would be applicable to longsword fighters as well, and that is something I have wondered a lot about
i think you missed that an katana is also an able stabber, so thinking that the katana wielder will mostly do an long windup slash, when he obviously know he's against an longer weapon isn't likely, also, 9:01 when you block, if you don't step back, the reach advantage is nulled, since the rapier needs distance to be in it's effective range, and in the effective range of the katana, and the rapier falls out of it's effective range since the point is harder to extend, just think of it like boxing, the longer armed boxer has the advantage if he maintains his distance, but if the shorter armed boxer dodges the strike, he can move in with more effective strikes. the rapier is all about effective range, since in closer quarter the rapier becomes awkward, as it's not an powerful chopper, even when sharpened, it's an 80/20 stabber/chopper meanwhile the katana, is like an 40/60, which is an balanced stabber/chopper sword. point is, i don't see any able swordsman that'll open up their guard, and use an low ranged, high wind up slash when the rapier is in the way, instead i think the katana user will try to hit the rapier out of the way, or wait for an opening before going for an stab, or an quick wrist slash with the guard still up. 2:23 lastly, people who practice kendo, aren't exactly realistic katana swordsmen, and are very different then kenjutsu.
Any info on the Spanish Circle aka Destreza? The Spanish fought against Pirates who had Japanese swords so I imagine the Spanish used that fighting style.
Good for mentioning that someone run through the skull has difficulty going up the blade but is not necessarily dead. I think people overestimate how much stopping power headshots from non-firearms have when they don't produce the neuron-destroying shockwaves that firearms do.
With the angled thrust and block as shown, how do you keep from losing your sword from that angled cut? If the samurai moves with the weapon before his body as is supposed to be the case the katana will impact and push the blade out of the way and your wrist position is at a weak hand position, the pressure could/ would tear the sword from your grip as shown
Related to single tempo defense & thrust. Multiple sources also mention defending against cuts with your sword after a successful thrust without withdrawing your point first. The positioning is often similar (for obvious reasons) to a single time thrust and our club's experiments have found it possible to "get behind your sword" surprisingly well even with the limited mobility of having your point more-or-less fixed in your opponent's chest or shoulder. There are also mentions of using your sword (after a successful thrust) as a lever to disrupt your opponent's motion. This is difficult to test, realistically; but anyone who's familiar with how challenging it can be to successfully deliver a one handed cut against an opponent who has gotten hold of your *_other_* arm can certainly understand the mechanism at play here. Just yanking a person's weight around can effectively disrupt a lot of intentional motions.
Great video! What about a katana vs a similar blade length military saber in a civilian self-defense situation? I'd imagine the katana has a defensive advantage due to a two-handed grip and a stiff and heavy blade. The saber would have the offensive reach advantage due to it being one-handed and held further away from the body. The katana's game plan would probably be block or deflect the saber's cut, then close in for a powerful two-handed cut that the saber man can't defend as easily. The katana would probably be better indoors/confined spaces due to the two-handed sword being held closer to the body than the one-handed saber.
Also, what about katana and wakizashi vs rapier and dagger? The kat/wak could both be used to parry/deflect the rapier at range, then close in where the offensive capabilities of the kat/wak would far outweigh the rapier/dagger.
Katana are not only two handed use. It is a dangerous assumption to make
My money is on the military saber due to its superior hand protection. I am personally not a fan of the katana design for that reason - very limited hand protection.
Yeah, that is what I’m thinking this entire katana counters to rapier discussion. The advantages of the katana of bind and cutting don’t just go away cus you using in one handed and just you don’t have a dedicated offensive , defensive implement doesn’t mean you can’t improvise one. Just that the traditional sort of standard of using the katana is especially bad start to use against a rapier. Hell, this is dodge cus is a video game but it is basically a fencing stimulator, but hellish quart shows this in broadsword versus rapier. It is doesn’t take much ommph to redirect a lunge or a stab, you don’t need two hands on it. I’ll link the video asap
There is a video in which two koreans martial artist do this type of encounter and the user of the katana prevailed most of the fights. In the commentary, they address the ease in which the Japanese swords displaced the rapier, completely denying the reach advantage.
I feel this has not been addressed at all and it is rather an important factor since it determined the outcomes of that engagement
Yeah, this video was made by weaponism, although there seems to be another longer video by a different channel as well. th-cam.com/video/jcwoBVUqlW0/w-d-xo.html - the video in question
The two-handed grip does give a leverage & strength advantage that helps with parrying, beating, deflecting, & so on. I agree Matt Easton has failed to give that sufficient mention in these videos. The reach difference still probably gives the rapier the advantage overall for unarmored single combat in the open, however.
Matt does relate at the beginning of this video experiences of people that practice both weapons.
@@b.h.abbott-motley2427 I would have argued the same but in that specific context, the amount of force required to completely push the weapon our of the way was minimal, while the effort for the rapier user to get the weapon in line was greater, giving the opportunity to the katana user to quickly close in.
Clearly skill played a role but I'd say the reach advantage was pretty much nullified in that specific match
ah okay, that looks interesting, I'll watch that later@@lucanic4328
But what if they throw a hadouken?
Will it be possible to block the more heavy sword with the rapier? Wouldn't it be forced aside?
It would be fairly easy to block/parry with a rapier. They're large, heavy swords, that were used fairly often against backswords etc, in Europe.
Yes, absolutely, as it happens multiple times in these videos
th-cam.com/video/jcwoBVUqlW0/w-d-xo.html
th-cam.com/video/_gndIJnmS5o/w-d-xo.html
How effective are these 2 swords against armor? At the time, would the combative's have worn some kind of armor?
The real issue is the drawing of the sword. The rapier swordsman would never get it drawn in time if the two swordsman met on the road.
Feels like not the most likely scenario.
I don't really know why you feel the katana could be drawn fundamentally quicker than a rapier either.
@@fmsyntheses because the katana is both shorter and the Japanese train in drawing the katana quickly while simultaneously cutting
@@outsideiskrrtinsideihurt699 weebery
@@fmsyntheses guess historical European sailors are weebs making up nonsense then 🧐
th-cam.com/video/zqBJDwwl1hA/w-d-xo.html
I think videos on strategy for different weapons that are contemporary to each other would be a really cool video series.
Really helpful for thinking about how d&d fights would go
A samurai who doesn't fear death and rushes in with only attacks to kill you is definitely a user of Jigen-ryu.
I was scrolling down my subs and it ended up with the top half of this thumbnail. Imagine my disappointment when Matt hadn't discovered immortality...
Dagger in the off hand is what I've always heard
That's good to know. Thank you.
Ok guys, these pirates are coming at us with their katanas, so this is the plan: We are gonna POKE and RUN, POKE and run, and pivot, pivot pivot (read with Ross' voice)
I really appreciate the video I always wanted to know what a fight between the 2 would be like
I would definitely like to have a dagger as well.
Having the sword with better reach is one of the main reason that Miyamoto Musashi used a boat Oar to kill Sasaki Kojiro in their famous duel. As it it is well known Sasaki Kojiro uses a very long sword and uses one swift strike to kill his opponent in duels. Musashi specializes in using two handed sword to fight against multiple opponents but their sword length put him into a disadvantage. Therefore, he uses a boat Oar and shaved it up in the proper size and length. The other reason is to sort of insult Kojiro by using only a wooden sword to fight him, psych him up.
According to accounts/legend, both swordsmen each struck one swift blow at the same time. Sasaki Kojiro’s sword just sliced off the Musashi’s head band, barely missing his head, while Musashi’s wooden sword was just enough length that it’s tip struck Kojiro’s Forehead, breaking his skull, killing him.
That likely never happened and sasaki kojiro likely never actually even existed.
This topic is very fascinating. I have a question, though. What, if any, armor would have been used in these conflicts?
That's a good question. A katana is a battlefield weapon, and thus it's meant to be able to handle armored opponents. In contrast, the rapier is a civilian weapon intended for use with unarmored civilians. One could argue back and forth about how a rapier could circumvent armor, but the bottom line is that whenever you use a tool for something other than its intended purpose, you're usually going to have a bad time.
You are answering the important questions.
Rapier for life, 1 m long blade (40 inches), full hand covered, two crossguards to twist and deflect, a tip of the sword can penetrate coat of mail. The left hand holds a 20 inches dagger with full hand cover and it can penetrate joints of the armour or disarm anybody... Katana is just a big machete for both hands. A rapier is so acurate and deadly that it can deliver thrusts and get away without being hit back, the defense is greatly effective
I agree with everything you said here. However, and it is merely opinion, the only answer to this question is “it depends.” The terrain, the battle situation, the skill of each opponent and the dedication of each opponent makes a difference. Is it a duel or a battle setting? What is discussed here applies to a duel mostly. Attitude is huge. A rapier user usually intends to survive. I don’t know that was true of samurai, who would willingly die-believed it an honor in fact-to kill their enemy, especially in the Kamakura Period, but this attitude continued well into WWII. This willingness to die in close combat would be a huge factor in a historical duel, because a samurai would take a rapier shot to the body (not the head,lol) to cut his enemy down in a glorious (to his mind) death. That factor would be huge historically. I also believe samurai trained more than Europeans on a daily basis, because of culture, but that is subjective. In a battle, of course, a rapier holder would have to face many opponents at once, many with bows and yari or naginata. Since most modern people wish to live in a duel, what you advocate here makes perfect sense. In the end, however, every duel is as unique as the individuals involved, and luck and surprise do matter. The most likely outcome of equally skilled fighters would most likely end in a mutual kill, which a samurai would be content with. Not so much a European. Thanks for this great analysis on how to survive the katana with a rapier.
For these rapier involved comparison videos one thing always fascinating me: everybody forget, that human being has two arms, not one
Great video!! As a [ poor !!] fencer this is very interesting...One aspect you missed is that Samurai era Japanese were really diminutive! If you look at contemporary paintings and compare sword size most Samurai are not much over 5 feet tall....In comparison Spanish/Dutch/Portuguese are significantly taller and larger...This will add to the advantages of the rapier reach...
Paintings can only be reliable to an extent, swords were actually longer before the edo period where new laws were made that restrict blade length. You have records of very large samurai.
@@eagle162 true...But it is a contemporary bit of evidence...The same is true for Highlanders during the '45.....When compared to their targes most Highlanders were just over 5 foot tall.... And yes there were very tall Japanese...In WW2 admiral Ozawa was 6 foot 7!
Quick question, how hard is it for a two handed sword to push the single handed sword out of the way?
If you were to try and block a two handed sword (any two handed sword, not just a Katana) with a rapier wouldn't leverage just push through your guard?
Leverage is a big advantage for a two-handed grip. It may allow blowing through some parries, but well-executed one with the forte of the rapier will stop any strike from a katana, longsword, or similar. However, the kantana or other two-handed sword can effectively push the rapier around at length (away from the forte), deflecting thrusts, binding, beating, & so on.
You assume blocks are static, but in swordsmanship, this is rarely the case unless fully reactionary and will probably end up with you wounded or dead.
@@wesleyviers1550 I hear what you are saying, but the cut didn't stop just because you want it to either. The question is how easy would it be to push a rapier block off line with the extra leverage of a two handed sword.
Sir, regardless of whether your opponent is sporting a Katana, sticking and retreating seems a good idea.
After watching this as always excellent video, both might die. The rapierist right there with missing body parts, and the katana maybe a few days to a few weeks later from infection from the stab. As far as all out winning, it'd be in the case where duelist is much better than the other, weapon would not matter.
Here's another possibility, having something like a buckler or parrying dagger in the off hand.
Going for the face and neck areas is an excellent (and in all likelihood game-ending strategy), but what about the hand? If I was fighting against a katana wielder with a rapier, I would definitely try to target the hand/arm with quick small amplitude cuts from the outside. Hands are extremely fragile and it wouldn’t take much to disable the opponent after a couple of good hits.
Something a lot of fencers don't practice and they should. Any real swordsman knows the wrist is a primary target. If he doesn't have a functional hand, he isn't a very good swordsman.
@@wesleyviers1550 If you don't keep your opponent under threat properly then you lose. Focusing on your opponent's hand is a great way to give them a chance to kill you.
What about a rapier vs an odachi?
I believe as almost always one-handesd weapon of similar reach would have massive advantage due to shield/dagger in second hand
I love how your first two suggestions are also the solutions to the 21-foot rule if armed with a handgun and being charged by someone with a knife. Backpedal or side-step and try to land an immediately incapacitating hit like the brain or spine.
Actually, the best thing you can do if you have a gun and you are being charged by someone with a knife... is to fall to the ground and use your legs as guard as you pull the trigger. You will win 99.9% of the time if you follow this tactic, even if he is closer than 21 feet.
@@wesleyviers1550 I agree that dropping onto your back can be one excellent tactic, but it's not "actually, the best". It's very situational and there are pros and cons to each. Cons to dropping to your back include that you could easily put your legs in line with your muzzle, especially if you're flustered while doing it. Very few people practice shooting from that position. It's not a good idea if your back is to a wall. It's also not a very good tactic for older and/or fat folk who might not do a good job of dropping to the ground.
Not to be dogmatic and say "my way works and yours doesn't". There are also big cons to backpedaling and side-stepping, including tripping, not being able to do so in tight spaces, and the fact that very few people practice shooting while moving backwards or sideways.
The only con to delivering a CNS, "lights out" hit is that it's hard to do, especially after a quick draw. The advantages are that a guy charging you with a knife is making your "lights out" target bigger with every step he takes if you can keep your cool, and it's a tactic you can use while dropping to your back, backpedaling, or sidestepping.
Dropping is an especially excellent tactic if you have experience in martial arts where you do ground work and can effectively use your legs to defend your vitals.
Matt, how would you suggest beating the katana’s “quick draw” ability at close range? Say, 2.5 - 3 feet away like conversion range.
Just like any other strike. Block or evade.
the quick draw is more of a emergency defense because Samuari were archers, or to hide the length of your weapon in a due. Not really useful when charging it's just better to have it out already.
@@lolasdm6959Samurai being archers applied only before the 14th to 15th centuries, no?
@@jonajo9757 No a large number of them were archers up till the 18th century.... Most samuari used aquebuses and bows in the sengoku jidai, and in the boshin war most of them used muskets and rifles. Ranged warfare was king in Japan for the most part.
2 to 3 feet away? maybe draw a shorter weapon faster and stab as you are moving toward the katana user? Or back up and draw a pistol?
Matt, been watching for several years and enjoy your show. Not rapier vs Katana, but the final scene in Rob Roy has rapier vs basket hilt Scottish sword. Roy is stabbed several times before he finally lands one devastating blow on the English. At least, that's what I remember.
Cheers
Matt reviewed this fight scene in one of his early videos. Rob Roy grabbed the blade of the Englishman's spadroon while slashing with his broadsword.
@williamvesey3679 I was remembering the scene from 20+ years ago. It made an impression on me. Found the scene on TH-cam after I posted. I'll find Matt's review. Thanks for the info.
Is armor taken into account?
have you done a vid
on "Twilight Samurai"
over the difference in
weapons therein?
how feasible is it to use a saber in the right hand and a 14'' bowie in the left in a fight?
Extremely feasible, especially the kind with large S shaped or D guard knuckle bows if you want to treat it like parrying dagger. You dont have to change anything about your fencing however if you just keep the knife for grappling range, by holding your arm behind your back messer style, or your fist on your hip as usual by holding the knife in a ice pick grip.
The Paulus Hector Mair Rapier pictures show various types of daggers being used in the off-hand from elaborate hilts and long quillions to a rondel dagger or the like. It’s tougher to parry with knife, but doable with a little practice…
I love how the video is phrased like I was just about to land my Black Ship to the shores of the rising sun and I needed to know how my trusty sidearm will hold up.
I would suggest using a French Musketeer rapier with a 3'3" blade and shell guard as it is a far better weapon and the cutting edge makes a real difference. I do agree to mantain distance as all fighters should. I would however suggest staying further away and cutting the fingers and forearm at least on of witch is always uncovered with the Katana. On a side note i suspect you are used to using a weapon in both hands at once judging by seeing you withdraw the weapon from both the reposte and the parry.