You mistakenly called Kissinger a war criminal. This is inaccurate. According to his biography he is an "evil ghoul war criminal". Its important not to remove context from history
Rusty definitely died as a child and was cloned. We see him not age at all between 1968 on Spanakos and 1976 on the compound lawn when Venturion strangles him. Jonas Jr is likely a bug in the cloning process; Ben mentions in the Halloween special that Dean has no signs of "fetiform teratoma" (fetus in a fetus).
I think the original cloning process was a giant “super womb” and Hank and Dean having individual tubes for each clone was a later development specifically because Ben (not Jonas) started noticing this becoming a common problem. The reason why they didn’t care so much for younger Rustys is because think about it, Doc himself doesn’t have JJ become a problem until he’s into his early/mid 40s if not early 50s. Original Rusty clones were dying WAAAAAAYYY too early/frequently for it to be a *real* problem, but Ben probably took note and eventually decided to fix it.
With the "baldness as cloning side effect" detail, we could potentially surmise that the alternate universe Rusty with the hit show on Broadway and the full head of hair is from a universe where he never died and needed replacing, meaning his success could be due to Jonas being a more protective/attentive father, genetic factors from the cloning, a lack of repressed death memories, or any combo of these and other factors. Probably not something they planned but a potential bit of coincidental plot elegance.
I don’t think Debbie is what caused the monarch to go all crazy about killing Rusty. When 21 asks him about it, he even says, “ what? No! No, that wasn’t it. It was like number 100 on the list of reasons I hated him.” Granted he does confront Rusty in the elevator about it later on, but that is simply because the subject has been brought up and Malcolm can just not leave anything alone. 21 mentioned it earlier, the Monarch probably hadn’t thought about it in a decade, but now it’s nagging at him, and he has to ask. I still don’t think we know. I am actually convinced that the monarch himself doesn’t now. “ the moment I saw him I wanted to kick his ass. I wanted to build a machine to kick his ass. I wanted to build an empire to house the machine to kick his ass.“ I think it is just some subconscious loathing, possibly instilled by the time he almost got killed at the venture compound as a small child, or do you know maybe the way his parents got old and whenever Jonas Senior came around, it really could be anything.
I think the only reason that Jonas had any allegiance to the Action Man and Colonel Gentleman is because they were the only members on the original team as psychotic and sadistic as him. If he turned on those two they would turn his world upside down and take joy in every moment of it.
Maybe. I think he legit just “likes” them, kinda around the same reasons you suggest. They’re *almost* as deranged as he is, but sees that as still manipulable and something he can take advantage of.
Also col gentleman and action man still at least from their actions appear to have something resembling actual loyalty to Jonas, loyalty that as far we could tell did not require the same blackmail he used on BM. Jonas valued them for both loyalty and skill, also Jonas liked to party in his off time, something we see action man and col gentleman being quite good at.
A few notes as I watch along as a VB lover! -Ben mentions in the Halloween special via science-jargon that budding a secondary clone is a possible side effect of the cloning process; which I thoroughly believe JJ is, as it really doesn't make sense that he could survive for decades inside Rusty otherwise. -At the end of the episode where Doc horribly mutates the college interns to make Gargantua 2's ray-shield JJ asks if they cleaned it for radiation, where Rusty and Billy tell him they did but their reactions make it very clear they didn't. I believe that THIS is the main cause of JJ's cancer, as it comes out of nowhere with full-blown intensity. Although it's obvious that the budded clone of a clone (of a clone?) would be more prone to cancer, how quickly it took effect is really jarring and I don't think fully explained by the cloning. I also really thought Malcom had a hunch about the clone thing since he tried to use his eye in one of Doc's retinal scanners on one of his Blue Morpho missions and refuses to explain when 21 asks why he thought it would work. But in the movie he says he wasn't expecting it so I guess he was just desperate. When Blue Morpho is recanting how Jonas blackmailed him with the sex-tape one one of Jonas' requests is "I need you to seduce Dr. Z." No sovereign necessary, that was Blue Morpho with an elaborate Billie Jean King bodysuit with fleshlight attachment™.
As you say, Jonas cloned Rusty because it's bad optics if his son dies on an adventure. Plus, he's useful as an organ bank and/or another body to slap his mind into. Same reason Jonas keeps Action Man and Col. Gentleman around. It's not out of loyalty to them. They're useful.
Jonas Sr. is 7 ft tall and built like a linebacker. He could do any ONE job of a member of OG Team Venture, but not all. Even he understood the usefulness of having meat shields.
Nope, action man and colonial gentleman were both violent sociopaths that cared about their image. They were 3 peas in a pod. No way did jonas not relate to them.
About Dr Quynm, I'm pretty sure the DVD commentary for that episode implies it's best they did not get together as they did not know they are blood related. She is very obviously an illegitimate daughter Jonas had with Col. Gentleman's wife.
I absolutely love Radiant is the Blood of the Baboon Heart, Like, I'm super bummed that they only had 90-ish minutes to wrap up the series but they did it so well. Plus, scene after scene of Dr. Mrs. the Monarch just being the most competent badass of any of the characters. And that final, pre-credits scene where they deliver snippets of each of the characters; A Monarch rant, Dr. Mrs. the Monarch being the best, Rusty just having had enough of this shit, Brock handling it all like a consummate professional and Gary being a fanboy.
I don't understand why it was limited to 90 minutes. It easily could've been a 2 hour movie, and that extra 30 minutes would've helped the back half of the story not feel so ridiculously rushed. Edit: It's literally not even 90 minutes.
@@Richard_Nickersonmoney, Adult Swim was basically done with VB and wasn’t interested in it. A 90 minute movie was probably the best they could get, even if ideally the show wouldn’t have been canceled
@@HyperiaxonRex No, believe me, I get it. I'm actually in the independent film making industry, so I'm not completely foreign to these concepts. I'm just saying that since they paid for a full movie, and it's assumed they're going to re-run it along with episodes, and the company was aware of how much material they had built up to use, then there's no real reason to have put such a short time limit on it. They're paying for a movie, the rights to which they already own, with the expectation of it concluding a long-running show that they canceled with a ton of cliffhangers... if 20 more minutes would've made the story better and the flow of the final product better, and they're already paying for a feature-length film, then those 20 minutes should've really been a given to the creators.
i wish the venture bros community was louder. But im proud the community is full of people who have class, humor, and whom enjoy mystery. this has been a great run. ive bee watching since i was 9 in 2003 i cant believe that first 15 minute episode was gonna go until i was 29 in 2023. I thought this show was gonna get cancelled season 1. This show and many other sit in a place in my heart and my brain. and cant wait to remember things badly about my life just how the characters in the show do remember their adventures. lettts goooo! go team venture!
I have liked the theory floated lately that Benn was the actual super scientist and while Jonas was a brilliant mind in his own right, the true driving force was "old man potter." Also his ape buddy is totally a rusty clone.
1. Dr. Venture saying he was going to have a baby with Skye was *100%* NOT him saying that she was currently pregnant. He was definitely referring to plans made while high. 2. I agree that JJ is just a clone mishap. Ben refers to the fact that Dean has no fetus tumors, proving he knows it's an issue. And JJ is likely the reason Rusty lost his hair, proving that the chimp DNA that made Malcolm was unnecessary. 3. The Rusty we know is called #22. Does this make him the 22nd Rusty, or the 22nd clone? Either way, that makes The Monarch #23. 4. Regarding Rocket: More important than the fact that it would only be like 1-2 days after conception is the fact that *she gave him the urine BEFORE they had a chance to hook up in the first place!* Rusty calling a woman with a baby clingy DOESN'T imply that the baby is his *at all.*
I thought it was that Ben mentions that dean is still dealing with hair loss last I checked, or has signs of it like Dr Venture did, but he doesnt have the indication of JJ in him
JJ probably is a result of defective cloning. When Ben is doing his checkup on dean he says "no sign of fetiform teratoma". In other words, saying that a fetus that acts as a tumor is something he knows he has to look out for in clones.
Which actually makes it even more confusing that Jonas never noticed JJ. Either it isn't the original Rusty, and you would imagine he'd see JJ and either dump the clone or extract his other son, or it is the original Rusty, so JJ never would have been noticed - but then how would Ben know to look out for it?
@@white_meat_chicken 100% NOT the original Rusty. I'm pretty sure the Dr. Rusty Venture we know is referred to as #22 in the movie, making The Monarch clone #23.
@@Richard_Nickerson Sure, I followed the number scheme, but that's why my point stands. It makes no sense that Jonas wouldn't have noticed #22 had a fetal tumor growing in him. First, they obviously know to check for it. But also, if he had, he would have destroyed the clone; and given that it's Jonas he WOULD HAVE noticed. The guy sucks, but he's fairly infallible when it comes to the science stuff.
@@white_meat_chicken No, we know that Ben is aware, and we know that that is after JJ gets out of Rusty, so we don't actually know for a certainty that Jonas knew OR that anyone knew it was an issue yet.
@@white_meat_chicken I could imagine that this was after JJ started losing interest and neglected some backup clone's data post their tv adventures. He had a lot going on and it's completely possible he overbooked himself around the planning of Gargantua 1. He was doing everything he could to bolster his reputation in case anything ever came out and ironically, forgot about watching the clones, probably taking them for granted.
I think Monarchs hatred goes back before Debbie. In the trial of the monarch he shows himself trying to blow up Rusty in college, which is definitely before Rusty and Debbie were rumored to have slept together (probably their deal instead). He likely brings it up in the elevator since him and 21 had just been talking about it
@@samuraiforever9120 They didn't start dating or even meet until much later after Shelia spent time working as Lady Au Pere. Obviously all of this is difficult to place by the nature of the show but based on the shots we get of Debbie and Rusty meeting they are past the age of college. Also Rusty is in charge of the lab meaning this must be post-Jonas's death, which happened while he was in college.
I did also see a theory that he was the voice of Rusty in the in-universe cartoon since he said he “didn’t see a dime from those DVD sales”. Although of course his general hatred can be explained as a combination of the baboon DNA giving him a choleric temperament and possibly subconscious jealousy of the other Rusty Venture clones. That and he literally said that’s “like reason #15” on his list of reasons he hates Rusty
Malcolm (the Monarch) is R22, which is probably for "Rusty 22", at the end of the movie. So there's at least 21 clones of Rusty before. But is Doc part of those or likely part of further clone series, aged up to maturity ? Malcolm long eyebrows were a side effect of cloning as Ben mentionned it earlier in the series(where Dean learn about the clones, IRC). My theory is that Jonas tried to fix things from Rusty's DNA with Ben (the real DNA specialist) until our Doc version. Doc ingest the foetus of Jonas Jr. (it didn't happen like we saw in the dream, I think). The merging with JJ induced a false positive in the medical analysis, saying the baldness was cured. What they (BEn & Jonas sr.) didn't thought was the risk of developping a cancer after the gene manipulation (which killed JJ in the end). My Other theory is that Jonas Sr. was infertile (maybe because of super science). It's gave him a reason to have kid and also the attitude of being a careless swinger. I don't think Jonas Sr. was a good man but I think he strongly felt the need of being perceive as a great heros. Like Doc, he was close to be super villain. Richard Impossible is strangely close to what Jonas Sr. was without the Hero complex and social skills. Not the most terrible human being but a careless, self centered asshole.
I don’t think Jonas Sr was actually impotent, he only *thought* he was initially for one reason or another, and Rusty was his original attempt at “choosing his family”. I think there are more Venture “bastards” in the series we’ve seen that didn’t or were originally intended to be seen that way, but the movie opens up a lot of possibilities.
As far as WHY THE MONARCH HATES RUSTY: I came away from the movie feeling that there IS no number one reason - It seems more like it's a ton of little things. The Monarch mentions in the movie that "Rusty sleeping with Debbie" is only 1 of 100 different reasons why he hates him. The biggest reasons probably being: Rusty being a bad playmate as a kid (stole the toy truck), Rusty seemingly having a better life and still having a parent while Malcolm's died in a plane crash, Rusty making fun of Monarch's poetry and eyebrows in college, again thinking Rusty slept with Debbie, also Rusty "getting all the credit" for the college wing explosion and blasting off Underbheit's face, etc... THEN the added fact that the Monarch is by nature a very aggressive man, with that 2% baboon blood pumping through his veins.. AND most importantly, a lot of times the Monarch is prone to hating himself, which subconsciously makes him also hate Rusty because Rusty IS him. So it's probably all of these things combined.
For me, the main reason why Rusty isn't more like Jonas (despite being a clone) had more to do with nurture versus nature. Jonas presumably had a better environment and childhood growing up. Like look at Rusty's childhood and it's a wonder he's as "sane" as he is! Any other person would likely have been commited. Trauma and neglect is a huge part of Rusty's character. When we first saw him he was literally a pill popper! As for the balding, it could be due to the extreme stress OR Jonas has that too but you know, super science'd his hair.
I actually love how the "why the Monarch hates Dr. Venture" played out. It really wasn't something dramatic or over-the-top, it simply started with him thinking he slept with a girl he still liked, and escalated when the Monarch failed to get back at Rusty in college resulting in Ünderbheit's accident which the Monarch was also upset about cause he didn't get the credit for doing it. And you can imagine it just snowballed from there, and maybe cause Malcolm is a clone of Rusty there was some technically "self-loathing" or "hating the worst parts of yourself." BUT it also could be dramatic seeing how Jonas took everything from the Blue Morpho in turn making Malcom's life difficult while Rusty in Malcom's eyes had a more "cushier" and better life. It just works on so many layers being realistic on how hate works and the dramatic "revenge" story that it gives an entirely new perspective on all the times throughout the show it's brought up "why the Monarch hates Dr. Venture," like when Sheila is telling her moppets. It's first seen as a joke cause she isn't giving a simple straight answer, but at this point you realize they weren't keeping it ambiguous, Sheila is actually telling them why he hates Dr. Venture.
Monarch says he started hating Venture when he made fun of his poetry writing in college. This may have been the very first interaction between the 2 as Malcom says he did not know that Venture guy and the hate is born from unwarranted hostility and mockery by Rusty. In the movie he clearly states to 21 that dating Debbie is nowhere near the top of reasons for hating Rusty. Even after Rusty confirms he did not steal his GF and never had sex with her Monarch is cool about that and believes him, but keeps hating him.
@@bryfunkenstein I... I can't believe that's not brought up more in any discussions. Between the picture and Venturion's flashback it's actually a very significant moment or even moments that shape their dynamic. Crazy how I never connected the dots but was always aware of it.
Exactly. When Rusty said that he was high on E and partying at a rave - of course it was probably just him talking and making no sense. If anything he probably meant he and Skye had just decided that night that they were gonna have a kid together
Yea i interpreted it as like just drug talk. Like in his head he was set on living out a new life and its gonna good an pure this time. Plus if she had been prego brock would of just went in for the kill.
In regards to Scare Bear.. At the 2020 SF Sketchfest, there was a Venture Bros panel. It was essentially a 2 hour Q&A. I was gona ask about Scare Bear, but someone beat me to it. Earlier in the Q&A Jackson did mention that he and Doc had just about wrapped up writing season 8... so when asked about Scare Bear he said they had no plans for the character. But they also said that's kinda the way it went for alot of background characters till they get a plan. The way he said this made it seem like there was more there but he didn't want to spill the beans.
Its clear that he's a reference to the rabbit from Donnie Darko, but that's about as far as it gets. I'd like to think its just some random new york hero/villain that's just around
Dr. Z is clearly Action Johnny and his dad's arch. He's merely part of the same villain crew that Team Venture fought (we learn that group arching is different from individual arching)
Debbie isn't the reason Monarch hates Dr. Venture. Like he said, she's like reason number 100 why he hates Venture. The actual origin of his hatred is the Monarch's own self hatred being projected onto another clone of himself, which Ben points out is likely an effect of the Baboon DNA making him more aggressive. Besides, The Monarch was arching Doc in college way before he dated Debbie, and before Debbie and her mom went to Doc for help.
Dr Orpheus says " Called it" when Action Man has his stroke in The Venture Bros. and the Curse of the Haunted Problem. which mean he predicted the stroke rather than cursed the Action Man. Also puts a time line for the series as he predicts it at 2 years 17 days. A lot happened in that time!
Please please PLEASE do a video with all the character references! Excellent Video/recap! Thought that Scare Bear was either Future Hank or Jonas SR (using the time machine) to put specific events into motion. I love how Radiant left it open for a possible sequel (here's hoping)! Go Team Venture!
18:59 This would track with how Jonas asks Billy to put him in Blue Morpho’s body in season six, and essentially why he created Venturion in the first place. Heck, it even explains the existence of the PROBLEM. Clones, cyborgs, life support, it’s all Jonas’s twisted goal to stay alive as long as possible
I thought the movie was mostly just "fine". It made the series go out on a much better note than Season 7 did but at the same time, you can REALLY tell it was just Season 8 consensed into 80 minutes because you watch several scenes and for each one in the back of your head go "oh, this scene was originally an entire episode"
Thanks for including my reply! I was talking about the post credits scene where the cowboy melted and that's what caused the PROBLEM light to start, but maybe I'm not remembering the order of things and that happened after they left. Rusty dying at some point would also explain why sometimes he and the show get his life and the show within the show confused, Jonas could have used the show to fill in gaps. Lol at the Brock stops killing, he kills like 20 guys in the episode where they kidnap Doc for The Monarch's ascendance ceremony. I loved the movie and it was a great send off to one of my all time favorite shows.
Here’s something that might further complicate the timeline In the episode ORB, Hank finds one of Dean’s Yugioh cards while digging up the yard. He said the card’s name is Ancient Gear Fist. This card was originally released in 2007.
The plane that Malcom's father flew was a Beechcraft Bonanza with a V tail. It was nicknamed the Doctor killer because it has flight characteristics that can be a challenge especially in bad weather which was present during the crash.. It was also the plane that killed all those famous musicians the day the music died which was referenced in an earlier episode.
I got to thinking after watching the movie about why, now what we know Hank and Dean weren't just random accidents of a fling or anything like that, Doc decided to have twins when he decided to have kids (which I think in and of itself was Rusty hoping to prove he could be a better dad than Jonas, thus showing one way he could one-up his father). I think it was so neither of them would end up being lonely like he was. Rusty was an isolated, lonely kid. He was dragged around the world by his dad and pretty much his only long-term relationships with anyone besides his dad through his childhood was a robot who spoke in beeps and his dad's middle aged friends who all appeared to take pleasure in tormenting Rusty, or at least putting him into terrible situations. Maybe he thought that having twins would mean that even if Rusty turned out to be as bad a father as his own (Doc was bad, but nowhere near Jonas level bad), at least they'd have each other.
I'd actually love to see you do dedicated reference call-outs videos. 99% of those went completely over my head, and I feel like I gained more pop culture history from the timeline than I did from anything else. I dig the casual but focused nature of these vids, so by all means, educate me.
my theory on JJ was that Rusty is a clone of himself, but using test tubes that weren't properly cleaned that still contained Jonas' dna from potantially trying to clone himself still so instead of just making a clone of his son he made a clone of himself that his son then devoured in the "womb" to grow up with inside him all that time, which explains why JJ just looks like a deformed Jonas exactly, he didn't get Jonas' memories though so he grew up looking through the lens of Rusty's life being jealous of what he had that JJ didn't, hell it's even possible he had intended to clone himself and rusty and just placed both in the same clone chamber leading to JJ getting eaten
I agree about the Black-hearts, but the piece the commenter was missing was that the Spanish fly explicitly DOES work as Doc intends, for a very short time, before they suddenly, rapidly mutate into fly creatures. It appears in the show proper that it could be a bluff for a moment, but the Doc's look suggests that he's "won them over" inadvertently
I would absolutely LOVE a Venture Bros references video, or Venture Bros music reference video, or whatever. There are a lot of great references, both major and minor. One of my favorites is that Stephen Wolf has a Munsters-esc car and is a human-bat-person, and because of these he has a theme that is basically a kind of knock-off of The Munsters theme song. Another being that the theme that plays in the episode "The Doctor is Sin" when flashback Rusty and Jonas are speaking, before Jonas accidentally flashes his wood, the theme that plays to the Andy Griffith Show theme song. God I love this show and all its reference!!!
always thought the Monarch's hatred stemmed from that moment we see from Vendata's POV when they were little kids playing on the compound lawn and Rusty took Malcolm's toy and Malcolm started to cry
If the Monarch's Parents were killed by Jonas Sr. is a good theory, I also think that Jonas may have gotten tired of Force Masure and gave the sovereign the weapons he needed to take him out and replace him, making his wife mad enough to go after and kill JVs on the space station.
The traditionally a necromancer would be able to read someone's impending death. A hunter must be able to track deer a potter locate the clay and a merchant ways to acquire products, so it is a necromancer scents deaths approach.
Hey Adam! In my attempts to avoid heavy spoilers for the Movie in my post on the original video, my third point (3:12 timestamp) was missing some vital points which I assumed most people would had been picked up. I believe based upon Adam's response that many people did not properly perceive Hank's "Coma Knowledge" during Season 7 finale ("The Saphrax Protocol"). The Venture Bros fandom knows Publick and Hammer tend to weave misdirection into all of their big reveals. So we (as an audience) are supposed to immediately question the so-called big reveal during Hank's time in "Coma Town" (as he calls it.) Unfortunately, the majority of viewers accepted Hank's "Coma Knowledge" at face value. The only piece of information presented to audience as "new" during the time spent in "Coma Town" was Bobbi's name and her being named the boys' mother. There's a myriad of issues with this so-called knowledge in addition to Bobbie being falsely named the boys' mother: 1.) The Action Man (real name: Rodney) is not in a coma. The general audience is provided this misdirection during the post-credit scene from the episode "Arrears in Science" (earlier in Season 7) as Hank overhears the conversation with original Venture Bros team members discussing Rodney's current state in the hospital. Flipping the perspective to the the die-hard fans, we know Rodney died. Earlier in the same episode, one of the longest running setups was paid off when right on cue as Rodney lost consciousness, Dr. Orpheus mutters "a stroke". This is the pay off moment for fans eagerly awaiting a prediction of The Action Man's future (made by Dr. Orpheus in the episode "Past Tense" in Season 1.) This is why the character is never mentioned again (in the real world) going forward. 2.) The Action Man would not know the truth surrounding the boys' mother or the cirsumstances of their birth. The series goes out of its way to imply that Rusty, Helper, and Brock are the only individuals who could had known this truth. Furthermore, the series states that Rusty completely cuts The Action Man (as well as the other members of the original Venture Bros team) out of his life following the death of Jonas. The original members would remain cut out of his life until the events of the episode "Past Tense" in Season 1. On top of that, during the Season 5 episode "The Devil's Grip", Hank and Rodney bond. If it was truly the soul/spirit of Rodney in Hank's Coma Town, there's no way he would skip out the fact that this so-called knowledge is heresay/rumor. 3.) On September 7, 2020, Publick tweeted that they were actively writing season 8 when Adult Swim cancelled the show. It is safe to assume that the Bobbi Saint Simone storyline would had been a big part of the 8th season (potentially taking up the entire season.) Furthermore, the series DVD/BluRays confirms the bread crumbs for Bobbi Saint Simone and her connection to the overall narrative was planned to be dropped long before the Season 6 episode "Faking Miracles" when "Follow That Bikini" is being watched on a TV in the episode. Specifically, the scene between Jonas Sr. and Bobbi meeting on the movie lot (the scene which appeared in the Movie) was the scene cut from an episode earlier in the series. (The commentary also implies that Publick had finished plotting out the boys origin in canon by that point.) ... and all of this ignores one simple truth: the Movie confirms that Hank believing Bobbi St. Simone to be his mother (while appearing to be "new" to the audience during Season 7) is not an original thought nor something that The Action Man is telling Hank for the first time. When the boys "meet" Bobbi in the Movie, she converses with them about their prior meetings. Since the neither of the boys have any knowledge of meeting her prior, she is stating to the audience that it was the prior clones of boys who had visited her prior (aka prior to the Season 2 episode "Powerless in the Face of Death") and each time it was Hank coming to her with the notion she maybe their mother. This acknowledges that its only the Hank clones who have this "knowledge." From the show's canon, we know there's only one possible source for knowledge that all of the Hank clones would possess and that's his education pod. This means Hank's "Coma Knowledge" doesn't originate from the spirit/soul of The Action Man instead its subconscious knowledge from the education pod that pre-dates any of the Hanks clones having met The Action Man. Ultimately, this is another series misdirection as "Coma Town" is nothing more a coma. There's a running belief in society that similar to dreaming that if we become aware that we are not conscious that will snap us out of the dream/coma. The whole thing is Hank's subscionus mind providing him the tools he needs to snap out of the coma. The whole thing is a series long pay off for the fans. The fans who since season 2 have theorized on the internet that Hank's educational pod might have a defect ever since Brock's comment in Season 1 episode "The Trial of the Monarch" to Hank following a weirdly dated pop culture reference that he makes. In The Venture Bros universe, "Follow That Bikini" would run on VH1 Classics. While we do not know specifically why the Hank clones believe Bobbi to be their mother, we know beyond a doubt that knowledge came from the education pods. (It's my personal belief that some point in the show's narrative in a world were the show was not cancelled that we would have had more moments of "Follow That Bikini" appearing in the background while some character is watching VH1 Classics. Specifically, a sequence that would imply in the Venture Bros' universe there are rumors circulating that Bobbi might be young Rusty's mother. This misdirection was setup in the Movie but in a world where we had a season 8, it likely would have served as another layer of misdirection for Bobbi being the boys' mother. Something stated just vague enough that if we were to assume Hank heard in the pod that he could take out of context to point to Bobbi as his mother.)
At least from what I remember, seems like Rusty was obesed with Bobbi, so he used part of her DNA to make the boys and the eegs from her daughter. That's why hank is blonde, but there aren't a real mother just some DNA Rusty used to make his sons that he surely seems to always wanted to have, maybe to be a better father than his.
I’m just glad we got the movie to give us an ending if it cannot find its way back for about her season or movie. This is one of my favorite series of all time, and it will be missed dearly. Thank you for the love letter to all us Venture enthusiasts.
31:14 Yes, this has always been my theory too. That the reason for some of the inconsistencies with the timeline, at least in regards to Doc's age and the sliding timescale is because, like how he'd do with the boys, he was cloned multiple times and every time Jonas brought him back while still a child. Only in his case it was purposely because he loved cultivating that super-scientist father image, whereas when Doc did it was kind of an ingrained thing from Jonas or he just couldn't be bothered to do it any other way.
I think Rusty should realistically be about 10-15 years older than he really is, and he probably died and was replaced one last time during college sometime right before the Movie Night Massacre.
I've always really wanted a concrete answer to who actually caused the Movie Night Massacre. My partner and I have a theory that the entire conversation with Jonas and Venturion was a red herring, and young Bud Manstrong was the real culprit. Given Bud's wildly erratic and violent reactions to anything "improper" and sexual, and Venturion was planning on broadcasting the Jonas/Blue Morpho sex video in place of Sharky's Machine before Jonas discovered him, we think it happened like this: Jonas asserts Venturion won't do anything rash because "his old friend is still in there"; Venturion finds he really can't bring himself to do anything and leaves, giving up on his plan and leaving the video behind; young Manstrong, maybe having heard the argument or maybe just by chance, enters the same room and discovers the video, then after seeing the vaunted and idolized Jonas Venture in a scandalous sex video, had a violent blackout episode and opened the bay doors, punishing Jonas or cleansing him of his sin or something outrageous like that. It explains why Manstrong is the only survivor, at least, but I also thought it was a more interesting twist than simply, "Venturion did it", when so many story elements hinted there was more to the story. I'm disappointed the final explanation for that didn't make it in anywhere. :(
I thought the investors did it bc they were forced to protect Jonas's reputation for some reason or another. Them killing Jonas also ties up any loose ends between them
I’m 100% on board with it being Manstrong and explaining all his weird guilt and sexual hang ups that could be exploited to brainwash him into a Manchurian Candidate
I like the theory, but I'd tweak it a little. Manstrong masturbated to the video, and in his orgasm bumped the control to open the bay doors. Thus causing the massacre and leaving the young man with crippling guilt over his own sexuality.
I think that scar bear is a hank clone that never died. We do know is fairly mentally unhinged so maybe one day he snapped killed dean and just sorta wondered off to do more bad shit
Caledon Local 21 or Mr. Bear's Cellar, that is a good idea you have; but hammer said they never finished what scarbear is he is fron the creepy pasta i listed above
I think what monarch says in response to 21 thinking his breakup with debby is true that he has way more reasons to hate rusty than just that, and that hes always hated him since he was a kid as show with rusty taking his toys. malchom tried to kill rusty back in college with an explosion witch seems like before he had his run in with bobbi and debbi
In terms of timeline years, I honestly just think that since obviously the Venture Bros. universe is far more advanced than ours, any references to things we know from after the early 2000's don't actually mean anything or that the show takes place after that, but just that it happened sooner. So I believe that the show takes place between 2003-2007, and like comic books and a lot of properties Venture Bros. takes inspiration from, the timeline appears to “slide" more aesthetically towards whatever the real world is like when the show is airing, and it just works more well in the Venture Bros favor because the show operates on an altered version of history anyway so they don't even have to change the year when they incorporate references to recent events (like didn't the moon landing happen in the early 1900's in the show? If the moon landing happened 67 years before it really happened it wouldn't shock me if things like Uber or the live action Inhumans show may exist in 2007).
I figured that the Debbie bit they mention in the movie is what made Malcom aware of Rusty, but that the fact that they knew each other from childhood and that monarch has the aggressive DNA of a territorial ape meant he was fated to perceive Rusty as a threat from the moment they met. Also the return of Ventronic absolutely made my day in the film, wow what a callback.
In terms of the Black Hearts at the Prom...The reason I have always thought they were NOT Black Hearts was because when Molotov darts Brock in the back she looks at the pro and asks her "Do you want to live?" The pro looks actually scared and says "yes", and Molotov says "Then get back to your Prom". So, I think Molotov has seen this Pro's at the party, and using that to her advantage when talking with Brock later.
Malcolm is R22, implying as many as 21 prior 'Rusty's', and was given baboon dna to counteract that specific symptom. Balding is one of the symptoms Ben checks Dean for, which implies that it's a cloning defect, present in Rusty, and which they attempted to correct in later 'versions'.
It's a pretty minor thing, but I always took, "Oh, you know, magic guy" as just a winking joke. Orpheus probably heard exactly what happened with Hank, both the coma and his disappearance. Byron IS pretty close with the whole Venture bunch. It doesn't take a genius to know Dean would follow Hank to the ends of the Earth, either. But, hey, it's a good way to put a nice young man at ease.
Yes please! Only issue is that years and even exact dates are given but much more rarely compared to Venture Bros. I made my own but it’s very obviously a work in progress and I made it for my fan fics but I can make a version that takes out those parts I guess Update: Post-movie here….yeah admittedly even with the movie in like you kind of have to do A LOT of legwork since there’s a lot of character backstory still left unexplained. Like I honestly still don’t know what the f🎸 Salacia’s deal even is TBH
Meteor Majeure is (unsurprisingly) not a "direct copy" of a very specific unfinished concept from early Dr. Who lmao: it's a blatant reference to Asteroid M, an orbital space station created by Magneto that looks awfully similar to the one in the show. The movie proved this once and for all with Force Majeure's design being so clearly inspired by Magneto's.
Didn't Kano already talk about killing a great man. Wouldn't that have been the Blue Morpho? I think we can all see Jonas extorting Kano into having to "fix" the plane.
Debra dumped Monarch when her mum saw his super villain outfit and forbade her from getting back into that life. By the time Monarch starts being Monarch he has already tried to kill Rusty in college. So I don’t think Debra is the reason Monarch hates Rusty. The Monarch himself says that’s like reason 100 why he hates Venture.
I think Hunter and Mol were playing a long game. We see the sphinx operative who would be revealed as Mol introduced early in season 4, partnering with Brock. She then reveals her involvement with Monstroso, they get away, are captured by the OSI again, and reveal that she was hired by Hunter to clear out double agents in the OSI. I struggle to believe that she infiltrated Sphinx, never took her mask off, and never spoke, without a paranoid bastard like Hunter noticing, so I believe that she is working for him then, if not as early as when Hunter was a member of the blackhearts in season 3.
Given Force Majeure is clearly at least visually based on Magneto, Meteor Majeure is definitely more of a reference to Asteroid M than Shada from Doctor Who if its even referencing that at all.
I always thought it made scenes that Rusty was a clone Jonas. That Rusty turned out the way he did not because of some failure in the cloning tec but in the way Jonas raised him. Jonas could have had a perfect super scientist son but because he was so neglectful, self-absorbed, and a narcissist that he just ruined Rusty making him full of self doubt and have substance abuse problems.
The episode where Dean met Bens H.E.L.P.E.R and he said "Goodbye Rusty Venture" made me think the implication was that Dean was originally a clone of Rusty
I think Scare Bear was Hank. Dean is a scientifically gifted genius. He does seem to suffer from deep depression which probably would have lead him to villainy. Hank, although somewhat stupid, is more physically gifted. He actually passes the test to join Sphinx but Brock doesn't let him join. My guess is that Hank travels to the past to show his younger self the truth and bring them together again, preventing Dean's downfall
I'm sad that the movie is potentially the last bit of new VB content we will ever get, but at the same time, happy they were able to give it an acceptable wrap up ending, with a potential to continue if the possibility presents itself
I've rewatched Venture bros so many times and thank you for pointing out the Sovereigns death. How the hell did I never notice he was the shot eagle🤦♂️
If I recall right, there was one more bit about Kim in the show; not an appearance but I recall Triana basically mentioning that she went all 'born again Christian' when Hank asked about her, which I think was in the prom episode?
In response to Dr. Orpheus never displaying powers of prediction, the very definition of necromancy is "the supposed practice of communicating with the dead, especially in order to predict the future." This is all something I recently learned. -mancy means divination. So Geomancy means Diviniation via the earth. Necromancy means divination via the dead.
Immediately after the Brock killing compilation, an ad ran for Tide beginning with the statement, "Life is messy..." Either it was a touch of accidental comedy, or TH-cam has become self-aware and has a sense of humor.
I believe it's stated that the sovereign met bowie at a party, jonas being the highly famous socialite he was, i don't think it's impossible for all characters to meet each other at some point in the past also i like to believe that when Orpheus replies, "Oh, you know, magic guy." he's actually being somewhat sarcastic, he probably knows Hank is missing by this point, and I believe Orpheus demonstrated some clairvoyant ability earlier in the show when Dean was around? but either way, he is a magic guy to Dean, so Orpheus can deduct why Dean would be there. I also think it's not within the realm of possibility for the magic man to just make a health prediction based off of action man's current health state, gleaned when he grabbed him
Jonas Jr didn't get cancer from genetics. Rusty was meant to be a perfect clone, but the zygote split and then ate the perfect clone . Jonas Sr was under the impression the DNA WAS perfect, because JJ's DNA was in it, so he assumed Rusty would grow into a perfect clone of himself, when that didn't happen, he stopped loving his son.
Gonna be honest, the lengths that the Monarch went through just to arch and torment venture just for it to be chocked up to him believing that venture slept with Debbie just doesn't sit right for me. In the movie he says that's just a list of reasons why he hates venture, maybe not the main one. Some observations I think back to is the scene where he's going off on venture during Hatred's house party and in another episode he "Wanted to build a machine to kick his ass", His words and the weight of them had too much raw emotion to just being "he slept with my girlfriend". I just assumed it was his genetic aggression, due to him being babboon and venture just so happened to satiate that hatred, Like maybe during college just seeing Rusty triggered him, like an uncanny valley feeling since they're the same person, It would explain how his first attempt to kill venture was in college when he telling the council in season 3. Or funny theory, since they both had the same creative writing class, Doc clowned him and it was the first time monarch was ever mocked, just my head cannon tho.
25:05 ACTUALLY the original meaning of Necromancer was someone who contacts the dead to divine the future. As in foretelling the future. So it would be quite consistent with him being a necromancer.
I'm guessing rusty took time off after every instance of the boys dying or at least nearly all of them. Which means even if he took a year off at least half the time, that'd still be like 7 years. Plus the time hank jumped off the roof it was just one of them so they likely had to lie to Dean or wipe his memory.
I'm pretty sure Dr. O didn't need magic to know why Dean was there, that's a pretty simple puzzle to put together. I bet he just likes saying 'magic' whenever anyone asks how he knows something.
The whole cloning project was said to have started out of Jonas's guilt. To me, this is definitive proof that the original Rusty was a biological son, not a clone. And he died on one of their adventures. The guilt being that their adventures were always Jonas's doing. Maybe Force Majeur is the one who killed the original Rusty to make him Jonas's arch, as you're right that we literally never see him before the movie or interacting with Jonas in any way. But Rusty is a son, not a clone. Why else would he look so different too? Just like the boys are Rusty's sons, not clones.
I disagree, but I like where you’re starting out from. I think Rusty was *ALWAYS* a Jonas Sr clone. My theory on Force Majeure is that he found out the truth about either Jonas or Rusty or was maybe even a former Team Venture member himself (keeping with the Magneto/Xavier parallel) that turned against Jonas after finding out the truth about the whole cloning operation or Jonas himself. I mean “Force Majeure” basically means “Act of God/Divine Intervention”, so maybe he saw himself as fighting Jonas due to seeing his experiments as against nature or as Jonas as seeing HIMSELF as a “god” and thinking he needed to be brought down a few pegs
@@HyperiaxonRex Not a single Rusty or Malcolm even resembles Jonas, Sr. The ONLY trait is that the Rustys and Malcolms have the same nose shape, just greatly exaggerated. The Hank and Dean clones are all absolutely identical, and we know Rusty didn't improve upon anything his dad made, so the perfect mirror-image clone capability was already there. Hence why every Rusty looks the same, but no Rusty looks like Jonas. And we're given plenty of reasons to believe that Jonas has impregnated multiple women. Jonas's promiscuity + the guilt line + this still falling in line with Jonas thinking of his son as a science project = Rusty was originally a biological son, died on an adventure, and Jonas cloned him. Edit: Maybe original Rusty was offed by a HELPER? Would help explain why Jonas was actually so effective about getting rid of them, but he also is his egotistical self, so he kept a dumbed down one specifically for Rusty. I only literally just thought of that right now.
@@HyperiaxonRex Also, I studied French for years. Force Majeure literally means "greater force". It's the French equivalent of Deus ex Machina, basically.
Rusty, Monarch, and JJ wouldn’t look exactly like Jonas due to environmental factors and nurture over nature. We only see Rusty as a child, never Jonas, and Rusty wasn’t as athletic or physically fit as Jonas due to his insecurities of growing up with the OG Team Venture. JJ is the closest to being the spitting image of Jonas facially, but I’d say Rusty/Monarch as adults have slightly different facial features and head shapes due to diet. So child Rusty could have started as more identical to what Jonas may have looked like as a child, then diverged slightly as time went on. Also, there’s a possibility that even if they didn’t start as direct clones of Jonas, Rustys might have still been test tube babies from the very beginning at least. The reason I think so is Doc tells Dean he to THIS DAY still has no clue or idea who his mother was. So it could either be he just was never as curious as Hank and Dean or was so traumatized and bullied by Team Venture that he eventually gave up asking, or that he truly never was “born” in a conventional sense, and was incubated in the very same surrogate womb we see Hank and Dean in at the end of the movie.
@@HyperiaxonRex Not knowing who Rusty's mom is works with my "Jonas was very promiscuous" factoid just as well as your test tube idea. Edit: Also, is the actress Rusty's mom? Also also, Rusty & Malcolm don't have to look the same because they specifically talk about how Malcolm is a tweaked clone.
I think scare bear might be the second Brock from return to the house of mummies 2, a Brock that lost his way and still hangs around just in case the boys are in trouble
I'm sorry but we do have an idea of how old the boys are. Firstly in the episode The Invisible Hand of FATE, we see Dr venture cowering in fear from Myra as she's taken away this is shortly after the boys have been born as they are seen as babies being held by helper in the background. Rusty has the same beard and hairstyle as he does at the end of the movie. In season 1 the episode past tense Dr Orpheus tells the action man that he has 2 years and 17 days before he has a stroke, the action man has a stroke in season 7 so we know it's been at least two years. In the episode I Know Why the Caged Bird kills, Myra says that they are 19 years old. "in all of your 19 years" We can deduce that the original boys would be about 21.
Since Jonas gave her invisibility powers, I think it's reasonable to assume that he gave Sovereign his powers, and has maybe given MANY heroes and Villains their powers. Maybe his father did too near the fall of the original Guild.
I like where your head is at. The whole generation and shift to “powered” heroes/villains was entirely because of Jonas, one way or another. There are no powered or “Freaks” in the original Guild so my theory is the “explosion” of super powered costumed heroes/villains is due to something Jonas Sr did to the human genome at large, or he personally one way or another directly or indirectly helped create them.
It'd be interesting to look at how the Monarch and Dr. Mrs. The Monarch percieve Hank and Dean pre-clone reveal, since assumedly they'd be thinking that they're Debbie's kids. Hank has a striking resemblance to his mom/donor based on what we've seen of her.
I think Rusty’s twin in the womb was also closer genetically to his dad and that’s why he got cancer and died. With Rusty and Monarch having a variety of dna, then Rusty actually perfected cloning without realizing using his father’s work as a base.
Id love that deep dive into character references in the venture bros, but if you do it, you need to go all in. ALLLLLL in. Time won't be an issue to anyone whether it be the lengthy of video or time it takes to make said video
I am still hanging on timeline issue since Dermit was as old as the other two for the whole series once he was introduced and he did not age a lot throughout the timeline. Before he showed up it could be any time, but once you show someone their age and keep them it is harder to be like 'it could be years' yet Dermit is not aging that much. Also Salley's child Rocket also did not age up, every time we see him.
@@Darkgun231 That really does not make sense since the show would have brought that up as a joke. Also we know when Rusty runs away it is only one month (he tells J.J. he was only gone for a month). All of the dead Hank and Deans we saw in Rusty's mind are only the ones listed in season 2. Triana would have said something about them staying young since they age with the boys. Other clones get killed off so no more cloning after season 3. So, all messed up timing would be before the show started. Rusty says his age '43' in the start of the show (during the midlife crises he said in season one). Myra (who thought she was the boys' mom) only put them at age 19 meaning only 3 years were messed up (since it was after the boys' '16th' birthday). Also Dr. Orphus made the timeline of a little over two years when he told action man a stroke was going to happen (he did not say death only said that was when it happens) when Action man had a stroke Dr. Orphus was not surprised when he calmly said 'a stroke' meaning that was the stroke he was talking about.
Acutally Prof. O not cursing someone is in line with his rather ethical use of magic, and the original meaning of necromancy was to divine knowledge by speaking with the dead - before pop culture made it about summoning zombies. So Prof. O as a necromancer being capapble to divine someones exact date and reason for death is very much in line with his skillset.
Movienight Massacre theory: Blue Morpho played the tape and Jonas blew the hatch himself, knowing Team Venture would save him with the P.R.O.B.L.E.M. (which would have worked if his body were whole.).
I have a theory of what caused the Movie Night Massacre and untimely “death” of Jonas Venture Sr. I believe Bud Manstrong accidentally caused the bay doors to open… During the Movie Night Massacre, Vendata/Venturian/Blue Morpho had a copy of the sex tape that he was planning to expose Jonas with. And it has been shown that Bud Manstrong tends to black out when confronted with traumatic or extreme sexual events. I believe that Bud accidentally played the sex tape after Sharky’s Machine ended and was traumatized by it that he accidentally pulled the lever causing the shuttle bay doors to open killing everyone not wearing a Space Suit (Red Death etc) this would explain why he out of all people survived being launched into space (because he would be in the sealed control room at the time) This off hand, minor and weird series of event is very much in line with Doc Hammer and Jackson Publick writing style
The Dr. O death prediction looks like a reference to an X-Files episode, Clyde Bruckman's Final Repose, S3E4, where Peter Boyle plays a character who can do that.
One thing to note about the memories is the OSI has shown to have memory wipe technology (as used by Sphinx) , but also the learning beds show memories can be stored for clonies and induced into the brain during sleep (with possible side effects, unstated...). Its likely that all the characters have been altered by this technology somehow, even Hunter, despite being head of OSI
@@IamsTokiWartooth the other factor is Rusty and alot of characters have drug use (and alcahol) problems, and that may contribute to the memory issues.
@@helpconflict9851 the learning bed issue was the main take I got from your post. they obviously made the two boys knowledge level different. whidh is why so many suspected wrongly early on that one was a doc clone and hank a clone of brock
Dunno if you do another one of these, but i think action man killed rusty at least once, rusty mentions the action man putting a gun to his head, pulling the trigger and saying "not today rusty"
I don’t know if you are going to do another VB Q&A video, but I have two questions anyway: 1) Helper V2. What/who is he? It gets mentioned that he is partly human (likely meaning his part of his brain is organic) but who was the donor Jonas(looking for a new way to live forever), Ben, Rusty? 2) What did MUTHER the AI want to talk to Jonas about so badly? She has an obsession with Jonas and is also extremely p*ssed off at him. Is she just a malfunctioning computer program or is there some Glados style situation at play? Is she Rusty’s mom - maybe she was the Caroline to Jonas Venture’s Cave Johnson? Either way she’s still under the compound...
1) I think Helper 2.0 has any of Jonas/Ben/Rusty’s brains as a template but is effectively his own “person” regardless of who regardless 2) I don’t think MUTHER is Rusty’s real mother. I don’t think he even ever had one. She *might* be based on a real human brain, but I think her personality is her own and “organically” generated.
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You mistakenly called Kissinger a war criminal. This is inaccurate. According to his biography he is an "evil ghoul war criminal". Its important not to remove context from history
Harris is also a venture bros fan, every time I think you can't be any cooler than you are, you prove me wrong.
Go team venture
Thank you, Harrington Shpoindles.
Good to see you pal! I'm so happy you're a fan.
I'd, personally, give my soul to the investors to get you to do a video on the venture Bros.
Come on.
Do it.
Big fan! Thanks for watching!
Rusty definitely died as a child and was cloned. We see him not age at all between 1968 on Spanakos and 1976 on the compound lawn when Venturion strangles him. Jonas Jr is likely a bug in the cloning process; Ben mentions in the Halloween special that Dean has no signs of "fetiform teratoma" (fetus in a fetus).
I think the original cloning process was a giant “super womb” and Hank and Dean having individual tubes for each clone was a later development specifically because Ben (not Jonas) started noticing this becoming a common problem. The reason why they didn’t care so much for younger Rustys is because think about it, Doc himself doesn’t have JJ become a problem until he’s into his early/mid 40s if not early 50s. Original Rusty clones were dying WAAAAAAYYY too early/frequently for it to be a *real* problem, but Ben probably took note and eventually decided to fix it.
Oof just watched the movie and I was wondering about JJ Jr. being Jonas Venture Senior injecting his DNA into the Rusty Clone
Fetiform teratoma means he's got a tumor that resembles a fetus. Not whatever you said.
Go look up "teratoma". Its a tumor with teeth and hair.
@PositiveOnly-dm3rx Pretty sure Ben said that, but it's been a while since I've seen the episode.
Good catch.
i love how "Radiant is the Blood of the Baboon Heart" title is such a weird tacked on minor element but is soo impactful.
A lot of episode titles are like that too, so I’m happy they ended the series with that style of naming lol
Little did you know it was important all along, lmao.
I love how it makes you wonder why tf they chose that as the title until the last 2 minutes 😂😂
With the "baldness as cloning side effect" detail, we could potentially surmise that the alternate universe Rusty with the hit show on Broadway and the full head of hair is from a universe where he never died and needed replacing, meaning his success could be due to Jonas being a more protective/attentive father, genetic factors from the cloning, a lack of repressed death memories, or any combo of these and other factors. Probably not something they planned but a potential bit of coincidental plot elegance.
I don’t think Debbie is what caused the monarch to go all crazy about killing Rusty. When 21 asks him about it, he even says, “ what? No! No, that wasn’t it. It was like number 100 on the list of reasons I hated him.” Granted he does confront Rusty in the elevator about it later on, but that is simply because the subject has been brought up and Malcolm can just not leave anything alone. 21 mentioned it earlier, the Monarch probably hadn’t thought about it in a decade, but now it’s nagging at him, and he has to ask.
I still don’t think we know. I am actually convinced that the monarch himself doesn’t now. “ the moment I saw him I wanted to kick his ass. I wanted to build a machine to kick his ass. I wanted to build an empire to house the machine to kick his ass.“ I think it is just some subconscious loathing, possibly instilled by the time he almost got killed at the venture compound as a small child, or do you know maybe the way his parents got old and whenever Jonas Senior came around, it really could be anything.
I seriously think it’s a simple as the toy thing and the baboon DNA
The Monarch is basically Broly lol
Yeah lol, like Dr. Doofenshmirtz' toy train being the catalyst for his full evil potential.
@@HyperiaxonRex This is my new favourite parallel, and its just the absurdity of how much it fits
I think the only reason that Jonas had any allegiance to the Action Man and Colonel Gentleman is because they were the only members on the original team as psychotic and sadistic as him. If he turned on those two they would turn his world upside down and take joy in every moment of it.
Maybe. I think he legit just “likes” them, kinda around the same reasons you suggest. They’re *almost* as deranged as he is, but sees that as still manipulable and something he can take advantage of.
All 3 were the same. They were real friends.
Even bonnie had clyde. Psychos still want friends like themselves.
Also col gentleman and action man still at least from their actions appear to have something resembling actual loyalty to Jonas, loyalty that as far we could tell did not require the same blackmail he used on BM. Jonas valued them for both loyalty and skill, also Jonas liked to party in his off time, something we see action man and col gentleman being quite good at.
A few notes as I watch along as a VB lover!
-Ben mentions in the Halloween special via science-jargon that budding a secondary clone is a possible side effect of the cloning process; which I thoroughly believe JJ is, as it really doesn't make sense that he could survive for decades inside Rusty otherwise.
-At the end of the episode where Doc horribly mutates the college interns to make Gargantua 2's ray-shield JJ asks if they cleaned it for radiation, where Rusty and Billy tell him they did but their reactions make it very clear they didn't. I believe that THIS is the main cause of JJ's cancer, as it comes out of nowhere with full-blown intensity. Although it's obvious that the budded clone of a clone (of a clone?) would be more prone to cancer, how quickly it took effect is really jarring and I don't think fully explained by the cloning.
I also really thought Malcom had a hunch about the clone thing since he tried to use his eye in one of Doc's retinal scanners on one of his Blue Morpho missions and refuses to explain when 21 asks why he thought it would work. But in the movie he says he wasn't expecting it so I guess he was just desperate.
When Blue Morpho is recanting how Jonas blackmailed him with the sex-tape one one of Jonas' requests is "I need you to seduce Dr. Z." No sovereign necessary, that was Blue Morpho with an elaborate Billie Jean King bodysuit with fleshlight attachment™.
As you say, Jonas cloned Rusty because it's bad optics if his son dies on an adventure. Plus, he's useful as an organ bank and/or another body to slap his mind into. Same reason Jonas keeps Action Man and Col. Gentleman around. It's not out of loyalty to them. They're useful.
Jonas Sr. is 7 ft tall and built like a linebacker. He could do any ONE job of a member of OG Team Venture, but not all. Even he understood the usefulness of having meat shields.
Nope, action man and colonial gentleman were both violent sociopaths that cared about their image. They were 3 peas in a pod. No way did jonas not relate to them.
There was a theory or belief that Jonas was planning to steal Dr Venture's body for his own until Pete came in with an axe and cut their time short.
About Dr Quynm, I'm pretty sure the DVD commentary for that episode implies it's best they did not get together as they did not know they are blood related. She is very obviously an illegitimate daughter Jonas had with Col. Gentleman's wife.
I absolutely love Radiant is the Blood of the Baboon Heart,
Like, I'm super bummed that they only had 90-ish minutes to wrap up the series but they did it so well. Plus, scene after scene of Dr. Mrs. the Monarch just being the most competent badass of any of the characters.
And that final, pre-credits scene where they deliver snippets of each of the characters; A Monarch rant, Dr. Mrs. the Monarch being the best, Rusty just having had enough of this shit, Brock handling it all like a consummate professional and Gary being a fanboy.
I don't understand why it was limited to 90 minutes. It easily could've been a 2 hour movie, and that extra 30 minutes would've helped the back half of the story not feel so ridiculously rushed.
Edit: It's literally not even 90 minutes.
@@Richard_Nickersonmoney, Adult Swim was basically done with VB and wasn’t interested in it. A 90 minute movie was probably the best they could get, even if ideally the show wouldn’t have been canceled
@@Assasin2
I just don't see why limit it to 90 if you're going to pay for it to be done. Literally 20 more minutes would've made a huge difference.
@@Richard_Nickerson I see what you’re saying but keep in mind, this was the compromise we got opposed to a full 10 episode season.
@@HyperiaxonRex
No, believe me, I get it. I'm actually in the independent film making industry, so I'm not completely foreign to these concepts.
I'm just saying that since they paid for a full movie, and it's assumed they're going to re-run it along with episodes, and the company was aware of how much material they had built up to use, then there's no real reason to have put such a short time limit on it.
They're paying for a movie, the rights to which they already own, with the expectation of it concluding a long-running show that they canceled with a ton of cliffhangers... if 20 more minutes would've made the story better and the flow of the final product better, and they're already paying for a feature-length film, then those 20 minutes should've really been a given to the creators.
i wish the venture bros community was louder. But im proud the community is full of people who have class, humor, and whom enjoy mystery. this has been a great run. ive bee watching since i was 9 in 2003 i cant believe that first 15 minute episode was gonna go until i was 29 in 2023. I thought this show was gonna get cancelled season 1. This show and many other sit in a place in my heart and my brain. and cant wait to remember things badly about my life just how the characters in the show do remember their adventures. lettts goooo! go team venture!
A lot of Rusty's age issues can be explained by the fact he's died at least 21 times, as Malcolm was the 22nd.
I have liked the theory floated lately that Benn was the actual super scientist and while Jonas was a brilliant mind in his own right, the true driving force was "old man potter." Also his ape buddy is totally a rusty clone.
Yeah, like a failed attempt at adding the baboon DNA that made the Monarch clone. OR is it simply where that DNA came from?
maybe 98% baboon and 2 % rusty
Didn't he have a "Blood Donor" sticker at the of the movie?
@@MarioGMan25yep!
@supermegacoffeeguru I like where your head is at 👍🏿
1. Dr. Venture saying he was going to have a baby with Skye was *100%* NOT him saying that she was currently pregnant. He was definitely referring to plans made while high.
2. I agree that JJ is just a clone mishap. Ben refers to the fact that Dean has no fetus tumors, proving he knows it's an issue. And JJ is likely the reason Rusty lost his hair, proving that the chimp DNA that made Malcolm was unnecessary.
3. The Rusty we know is called #22. Does this make him the 22nd Rusty, or the 22nd clone? Either way, that makes The Monarch #23.
4. Regarding Rocket: More important than the fact that it would only be like 1-2 days after conception is the fact that *she gave him the urine BEFORE they had a chance to hook up in the first place!* Rusty calling a woman with a baby clingy DOESN'T imply that the baby is his *at all.*
I thought it was that Ben mentions that dean is still dealing with hair loss last I checked, or has signs of it like Dr Venture did, but he doesnt have the indication of JJ in him
JJ probably is a result of defective cloning. When Ben is doing his checkup on dean he says "no sign of fetiform teratoma". In other words, saying that a fetus that acts as a tumor is something he knows he has to look out for in clones.
Which actually makes it even more confusing that Jonas never noticed JJ. Either it isn't the original Rusty, and you would imagine he'd see JJ and either dump the clone or extract his other son, or it is the original Rusty, so JJ never would have been noticed - but then how would Ben know to look out for it?
@@white_meat_chicken
100% NOT the original Rusty. I'm pretty sure the Dr. Rusty Venture we know is referred to as #22 in the movie, making The Monarch clone #23.
@@Richard_Nickerson Sure, I followed the number scheme, but that's why my point stands. It makes no sense that Jonas wouldn't have noticed #22 had a fetal tumor growing in him. First, they obviously know to check for it. But also, if he had, he would have destroyed the clone; and given that it's Jonas he WOULD HAVE noticed. The guy sucks, but he's fairly infallible when it comes to the science stuff.
@@white_meat_chicken
No, we know that Ben is aware, and we know that that is after JJ gets out of Rusty, so we don't actually know for a certainty that Jonas knew OR that anyone knew it was an issue yet.
@@white_meat_chicken I could imagine that this was after JJ started losing interest and neglected some backup clone's data post their tv adventures. He had a lot going on and it's completely possible he overbooked himself around the planning of Gargantua 1. He was doing everything he could to bolster his reputation in case anything ever came out and ironically, forgot about watching the clones, probably taking them for granted.
I think Monarchs hatred goes back before Debbie. In the trial of the monarch he shows himself trying to blow up Rusty in college, which is definitely before Rusty and Debbie were rumored to have slept together (probably their deal instead). He likely brings it up in the elevator since him and 21 had just been talking about it
It likely was college given that monarch dated Debbie before sheilah and joined the guild.
@@samuraiforever9120 They didn't start dating or even meet until much later after Shelia spent time working as Lady Au Pere. Obviously all of this is difficult to place by the nature of the show but based on the shots we get of Debbie and Rusty meeting they are past the age of college. Also Rusty is in charge of the lab meaning this must be post-Jonas's death, which happened while he was in college.
I did also see a theory that he was the voice of Rusty in the in-universe cartoon since he said he “didn’t see a dime from those DVD sales”.
Although of course his general hatred can be explained as a combination of the baboon DNA giving him a choleric temperament and possibly subconscious jealousy of the other Rusty Venture clones.
That and he literally said that’s “like reason #15” on his list of reasons he hates Rusty
Dr. V mocked Monarch's poetry in college
I always assumed Monarch's hate was a subconscious thing, possibly gained as a child from when he was Rusty's 'playmate.'
Malcolm (the Monarch) is R22, which is probably for "Rusty 22", at the end of the movie. So there's at least 21 clones of Rusty before. But is Doc part of those or likely part of further clone series, aged up to maturity ? Malcolm long eyebrows were a side effect of cloning as Ben mentionned it earlier in the series(where Dean learn about the clones, IRC).
My theory is that Jonas tried to fix things from Rusty's DNA with Ben (the real DNA specialist) until our Doc version. Doc ingest the foetus of Jonas Jr. (it didn't happen like we saw in the dream, I think). The merging with JJ induced a false positive in the medical analysis, saying the baldness was cured. What they (BEn & Jonas sr.) didn't thought was the risk of developping a cancer after the gene manipulation (which killed JJ in the end).
My Other theory is that Jonas Sr. was infertile (maybe because of super science). It's gave him a reason to have kid and also the attitude of being a careless swinger.
I don't think Jonas Sr. was a good man but I think he strongly felt the need of being perceive as a great heros. Like Doc, he was close to be super villain. Richard Impossible is strangely close to what Jonas Sr. was without the Hero complex and social skills. Not the most terrible human being but a careless, self centered asshole.
I don’t think Jonas Sr was actually impotent, he only *thought* he was initially for one reason or another, and Rusty was his original attempt at “choosing his family”. I think there are more Venture “bastards” in the series we’ve seen that didn’t or were originally intended to be seen that way, but the movie opens up a lot of possibilities.
As far as WHY THE MONARCH HATES RUSTY: I came away from the movie feeling that there IS no number one reason - It seems more like it's a ton of little things. The Monarch mentions in the movie that "Rusty sleeping with Debbie" is only 1 of 100 different reasons why he hates him. The biggest reasons probably being: Rusty being a bad playmate as a kid (stole the toy truck), Rusty seemingly having a better life and still having a parent while Malcolm's died in a plane crash, Rusty making fun of Monarch's poetry and eyebrows in college, again thinking Rusty slept with Debbie, also Rusty "getting all the credit" for the college wing explosion and blasting off Underbheit's face, etc... THEN the added fact that the Monarch is by nature a very aggressive man, with that 2% baboon blood pumping through his veins.. AND most importantly, a lot of times the Monarch is prone to hating himself, which subconsciously makes him also hate Rusty because Rusty IS him. So it's probably all of these things combined.
For me, the main reason why Rusty isn't more like Jonas (despite being a clone) had more to do with nurture versus nature. Jonas presumably had a better environment and childhood growing up. Like look at Rusty's childhood and it's a wonder he's as "sane" as he is! Any other person would likely have been commited. Trauma and neglect is a huge part of Rusty's character. When we first saw him he was literally a pill popper! As for the balding, it could be due to the extreme stress OR Jonas has that too but you know, super science'd his hair.
I have an (admittedly) crazy theory for this, but I agree 100%
Yeah, Rusty was an amazing father compared to his own
I actually love how the "why the Monarch hates Dr. Venture" played out. It really wasn't something dramatic or over-the-top, it simply started with him thinking he slept with a girl he still liked, and escalated when the Monarch failed to get back at Rusty in college resulting in Ünderbheit's accident which the Monarch was also upset about cause he didn't get the credit for doing it. And you can imagine it just snowballed from there, and maybe cause Malcolm is a clone of Rusty there was some technically "self-loathing" or "hating the worst parts of yourself." BUT it also could be dramatic seeing how Jonas took everything from the Blue Morpho in turn making Malcom's life difficult while Rusty in Malcom's eyes had a more "cushier" and better life. It just works on so many layers being realistic on how hate works and the dramatic "revenge" story that it gives an entirely new perspective on all the times throughout the show it's brought up "why the Monarch hates Dr. Venture," like when Sheila is telling her moppets. It's first seen as a joke cause she isn't giving a simple straight answer, but at this point you realize they weren't keeping it ambiguous, Sheila is actually telling them why he hates Dr. Venture.
They also explain that the baboon DNA added would inherently make him more aggressive than a regular Rusty too.
Monarch says he started hating Venture when he made fun of his poetry writing in college. This may have been the very first interaction between the 2 as Malcom says he did not know that Venture guy and the hate is born from unwarranted hostility and mockery by Rusty. In the movie he clearly states to 21 that dating Debbie is nowhere near the top of reasons for hating Rusty. Even after Rusty confirms he did not steal his GF and never had sex with her Monarch is cool about that and believes him, but keeps hating him.
@@skuarfare we not forgetting the picture of rusty and malcolm playing as kids. Rusty took a toy away from malcolm...its goes pretty deep...
Damn, you are right. He clearly does not remember Rusty from those days but pretty sure the animosity stayed hidden in his subconscious.
@@bryfunkenstein I... I can't believe that's not brought up more in any discussions. Between the picture and Venturion's flashback it's actually a very significant moment or even moments that shape their dynamic. Crazy how I never connected the dots but was always aware of it.
I never took Rusty seriously when he said he and “Skye” were gonna have a child.
same.
Exactly. When Rusty said that he was high on E and partying at a rave - of course it was probably just him talking and making no sense. If anything he probably meant he and Skye had just decided that night that they were gonna have a kid together
I never interpreted it as they were currently pregnant, only that they had discussed it.
@@NicoAnimation
Decided to have a kid, not currently pregnant with one. Exactly
Yea i interpreted it as like just drug talk. Like in his head he was set on living out a new life and its gonna good an pure this time. Plus if she had been prego brock would of just went in for the kill.
In regards to Scare Bear.. At the 2020 SF Sketchfest, there was a Venture Bros panel. It was essentially a 2 hour Q&A. I was gona ask about Scare Bear, but someone beat me to it. Earlier in the Q&A Jackson did mention that he and Doc had just about wrapped up writing season 8... so when asked about Scare Bear he said they had no plans for the character. But they also said that's kinda the way it went for alot of background characters till they get a plan. The way he said this made it seem like there was more there but he didn't want to spill the beans.
Caledon Local 21 or Mr. Bear's Cellar,
Its clear that he's a reference to the rabbit from Donnie Darko, but that's about as far as it gets. I'd like to think its just some random new york hero/villain that's just around
Dr. Z is clearly Action Johnny and his dad's arch. He's merely part of the same villain crew that Team Venture fought (we learn that group arching is different from individual arching)
Debbie isn't the reason Monarch hates Dr. Venture. Like he said, she's like reason number 100 why he hates Venture.
The actual origin of his hatred is the Monarch's own self hatred being projected onto another clone of himself, which Ben points out is likely an effect of the Baboon DNA making him more aggressive.
Besides, The Monarch was arching Doc in college way before he dated Debbie, and before Debbie and her mom went to Doc for help.
Dr Orpheus says " Called it" when Action Man has his stroke in The Venture Bros. and the Curse of the Haunted Problem. which mean he predicted the stroke rather than cursed the Action Man. Also puts a time line for the series as he predicts it at 2 years 17 days. A lot happened in that time!
I never figured he could tell the future in general, but that, as a necromancer, he could tell when/how someone was going to die.
Please please PLEASE do a video with all the character references! Excellent Video/recap! Thought that Scare Bear was either Future Hank or Jonas SR (using the time machine) to put specific events into motion. I love how Radiant left it open for a possible sequel (here's hoping)!
Go Team Venture!
Yes!
Yes! I learned my friend loves Venture Bros but didn't know Jonny Quest existed! I searched for a good video about it but couldn't find one
More Venture Brothers, please. This could be a series.
18:59 This would track with how Jonas asks Billy to put him in Blue Morpho’s body in season six, and essentially why he created Venturion in the first place. Heck, it even explains the existence of the PROBLEM. Clones, cyborgs, life support, it’s all Jonas’s twisted goal to stay alive as long as possible
I thought the movie was mostly just "fine". It made the series go out on a much better note than Season 7 did but at the same time, you can REALLY tell it was just Season 8 consensed into 80 minutes because you watch several scenes and for each one in the back of your head go "oh, this scene was originally an entire episode"
Thanks for including my reply! I was talking about the post credits scene where the cowboy melted and that's what caused the PROBLEM light to start, but maybe I'm not remembering the order of things and that happened after they left. Rusty dying at some point would also explain why sometimes he and the show get his life and the show within the show confused, Jonas could have used the show to fill in gaps. Lol at the Brock stops killing, he kills like 20 guys in the episode where they kidnap Doc for The Monarch's ascendance ceremony. I loved the movie and it was a great send off to one of my all time favorite shows.
Here’s something that might further complicate the timeline
In the episode ORB, Hank finds one of Dean’s Yugioh cards while digging up the yard. He said the card’s name is Ancient Gear Fist. This card was originally released in 2007.
The plane that Malcom's father flew was a Beechcraft Bonanza with a V tail. It was nicknamed the Doctor killer because it has flight characteristics that can be a challenge especially in bad weather which was present during the crash.. It was also the plane that killed all those famous musicians the day the music died which was referenced in an earlier episode.
I got to thinking after watching the movie about why, now what we know Hank and Dean weren't just random accidents of a fling or anything like that, Doc decided to have twins when he decided to have kids (which I think in and of itself was Rusty hoping to prove he could be a better dad than Jonas, thus showing one way he could one-up his father). I think it was so neither of them would end up being lonely like he was.
Rusty was an isolated, lonely kid. He was dragged around the world by his dad and pretty much his only long-term relationships with anyone besides his dad through his childhood was a robot who spoke in beeps and his dad's middle aged friends who all appeared to take pleasure in tormenting Rusty, or at least putting him into terrible situations. Maybe he thought that having twins would mean that even if Rusty turned out to be as bad a father as his own (Doc was bad, but nowhere near Jonas level bad), at least they'd have each other.
I'd actually love to see you do dedicated reference call-outs videos. 99% of those went completely over my head, and I feel like I gained more pop culture history from the timeline than I did from anything else. I dig the casual but focused nature of these vids, so by all means, educate me.
my theory on JJ was that Rusty is a clone of himself, but using test tubes that weren't properly cleaned that still contained Jonas' dna from potantially trying to clone himself still so instead of just making a clone of his son he made a clone of himself that his son then devoured in the "womb" to grow up with inside him all that time, which explains why JJ just looks like a deformed Jonas exactly, he didn't get Jonas' memories though so he grew up looking through the lens of Rusty's life being jealous of what he had that JJ didn't, hell it's even possible he had intended to clone himself and rusty and just placed both in the same clone chamber leading to JJ getting eaten
I agree about the Black-hearts, but the piece the commenter was missing was that the Spanish fly explicitly DOES work as Doc intends, for a very short time, before they suddenly, rapidly mutate into fly creatures. It appears in the show proper that it could be a bluff for a moment, but the Doc's look suggests that he's "won them over" inadvertently
I would absolutely LOVE a Venture Bros references video, or Venture Bros music reference video, or whatever. There are a lot of great references, both major and minor. One of my favorites is that Stephen Wolf has a Munsters-esc car and is a human-bat-person, and because of these he has a theme that is basically a kind of knock-off of The Munsters theme song. Another being that the theme that plays in the episode "The Doctor is Sin" when flashback Rusty and Jonas are speaking, before Jonas accidentally flashes his wood, the theme that plays to the Andy Griffith Show theme song.
God I love this show and all its reference!!!
always thought the Monarch's hatred stemmed from that moment we see from Vendata's POV when they were little kids playing on the compound lawn and Rusty took Malcolm's toy and Malcolm started to cry
I think it’s this petty and simple too, everything else just snowballed from there lol
I would LOVE a video with all the Deep cut Pop culture references in The Venture Bros. GO TEAM VENTURE!
If the Monarch's Parents were killed by Jonas Sr. is a good theory, I also think that Jonas may have gotten tired of Force Masure and gave the sovereign the weapons he needed to take him out and replace him, making his wife mad enough to go after and kill JVs on the space station.
The traditionally a necromancer would be able to read someone's impending death.
A hunter must be able to track deer a potter locate the clay and a merchant ways to acquire products, so it is a necromancer scents deaths approach.
Hey Adam!
In my attempts to avoid heavy spoilers for the Movie in my post on the original video, my third point (3:12 timestamp) was missing some vital points which I assumed most people would had been picked up. I believe based upon Adam's response that many people did not properly perceive Hank's "Coma Knowledge" during Season 7 finale ("The Saphrax Protocol").
The Venture Bros fandom knows Publick and Hammer tend to weave misdirection into all of their big reveals. So we (as an audience) are supposed to immediately question the so-called big reveal during Hank's time in "Coma Town" (as he calls it.) Unfortunately, the majority of viewers accepted Hank's "Coma Knowledge" at face value.
The only piece of information presented to audience as "new" during the time spent in "Coma Town" was Bobbi's name and her being named the boys' mother. There's a myriad of issues with this so-called knowledge in addition to Bobbie being falsely named the boys' mother:
1.) The Action Man (real name: Rodney) is not in a coma. The general audience is provided this misdirection during the post-credit scene from the episode "Arrears in Science" (earlier in Season 7) as Hank overhears the conversation with original Venture Bros team members discussing Rodney's current state in the hospital.
Flipping the perspective to the the die-hard fans, we know Rodney died. Earlier in the same episode, one of the longest running setups was paid off when right on cue as Rodney lost consciousness, Dr. Orpheus mutters "a stroke". This is the pay off moment for fans eagerly awaiting a prediction of The Action Man's future (made by Dr. Orpheus in the episode "Past Tense" in Season 1.) This is why the character is never mentioned again (in the real world) going forward.
2.) The Action Man would not know the truth surrounding the boys' mother or the cirsumstances of their birth. The series goes out of its way to imply that Rusty, Helper, and Brock are the only individuals who could had known this truth.
Furthermore, the series states that Rusty completely cuts The Action Man (as well as the other members of the original Venture Bros team) out of his life following the death of Jonas. The original members would remain cut out of his life until the events of the episode "Past Tense" in Season 1.
On top of that, during the Season 5 episode "The Devil's Grip", Hank and Rodney bond. If it was truly the soul/spirit of Rodney in Hank's Coma Town, there's no way he would skip out the fact that this so-called knowledge is heresay/rumor.
3.) On September 7, 2020, Publick tweeted that they were actively writing season 8 when Adult Swim cancelled the show. It is safe to assume that the Bobbi Saint Simone storyline would had been a big part of the 8th season (potentially taking up the entire season.)
Furthermore, the series DVD/BluRays confirms the bread crumbs for Bobbi Saint Simone and her connection to the overall narrative was planned to be dropped long before the Season 6 episode "Faking Miracles" when "Follow That Bikini" is being watched on a TV in the episode. Specifically, the scene between Jonas Sr. and Bobbi meeting on the movie lot (the scene which appeared in the Movie) was the scene cut from an episode earlier in the series. (The commentary also implies that Publick had finished plotting out the boys origin in canon by that point.)
... and all of this ignores one simple truth: the Movie confirms that Hank believing Bobbi St. Simone to be his mother (while appearing to be "new" to the audience during Season 7) is not an original thought nor something that The Action Man is telling Hank for the first time.
When the boys "meet" Bobbi in the Movie, she converses with them about their prior meetings. Since the neither of the boys have any knowledge of meeting her prior, she is stating to the audience that it was the prior clones of boys who had visited her prior (aka prior to the Season 2 episode "Powerless in the Face of Death") and each time it was Hank coming to her with the notion she maybe their mother. This acknowledges that its only the Hank clones who have this "knowledge."
From the show's canon, we know there's only one possible source for knowledge that all of the Hank clones would possess and that's his education pod. This means Hank's "Coma Knowledge" doesn't originate from the spirit/soul of The Action Man instead its subconscious knowledge from the education pod that pre-dates any of the Hanks clones having met The Action Man. Ultimately, this is another series misdirection as "Coma Town" is nothing more a coma. There's a running belief in society that similar to dreaming that if we become aware that we are not conscious that will snap us out of the dream/coma. The whole thing is Hank's subscionus mind providing him the tools he needs to snap out of the coma.
The whole thing is a series long pay off for the fans. The fans who since season 2 have theorized on the internet that Hank's educational pod might have a defect ever since Brock's comment in Season 1 episode "The Trial of the Monarch" to Hank following a weirdly dated pop culture reference that he makes. In The Venture Bros universe, "Follow That Bikini" would run on VH1 Classics. While we do not know specifically why the Hank clones believe Bobbi to be their mother, we know beyond a doubt that knowledge came from the education pods.
(It's my personal belief that some point in the show's narrative in a world were the show was not cancelled that we would have had more moments of "Follow That Bikini" appearing in the background while some character is watching VH1 Classics. Specifically, a sequence that would imply in the Venture Bros' universe there are rumors circulating that Bobbi might be young Rusty's mother. This misdirection was setup in the Movie but in a world where we had a season 8, it likely would have served as another layer of misdirection for Bobbi being the boys' mother. Something stated just vague enough that if we were to assume Hank heard in the pod that he could take out of context to point to Bobbi as his mother.)
At least from what I remember, seems like Rusty was obesed with Bobbi, so he used part of her DNA to make the boys and the eegs from her daughter. That's why hank is blonde, but there aren't a real mother just some DNA Rusty used to make his sons that he surely seems to always wanted to have, maybe to be a better father than his.
well stated
I’m just glad we got the movie to give us an ending if it cannot find its way back for about her season or movie. This is one of my favorite series of all time, and it will be missed dearly. Thank you for the love letter to all us Venture enthusiasts.
31:14 Yes, this has always been my theory too. That the reason for some of the inconsistencies with the timeline, at least in regards to Doc's age and the sliding timescale is because, like how he'd do with the boys, he was cloned multiple times and every time Jonas brought him back while still a child. Only in his case it was purposely because he loved cultivating that super-scientist father image, whereas when Doc did it was kind of an ingrained thing from Jonas or he just couldn't be bothered to do it any other way.
I think Rusty should realistically be about 10-15 years older than he really is, and he probably died and was replaced one last time during college sometime right before the Movie Night Massacre.
I've always really wanted a concrete answer to who actually caused the Movie Night Massacre. My partner and I have a theory that the entire conversation with Jonas and Venturion was a red herring, and young Bud Manstrong was the real culprit. Given Bud's wildly erratic and violent reactions to anything "improper" and sexual, and Venturion was planning on broadcasting the Jonas/Blue Morpho sex video in place of Sharky's Machine before Jonas discovered him, we think it happened like this: Jonas asserts Venturion won't do anything rash because "his old friend is still in there"; Venturion finds he really can't bring himself to do anything and leaves, giving up on his plan and leaving the video behind; young Manstrong, maybe having heard the argument or maybe just by chance, enters the same room and discovers the video, then after seeing the vaunted and idolized Jonas Venture in a scandalous sex video, had a violent blackout episode and opened the bay doors, punishing Jonas or cleansing him of his sin or something outrageous like that. It explains why Manstrong is the only survivor, at least, but I also thought it was a more interesting twist than simply, "Venturion did it", when so many story elements hinted there was more to the story. I'm disappointed the final explanation for that didn't make it in anywhere. :(
I'd imagine "Phantom Space Man" was Red Death, since he both survived, and would have looked like one.
I thought the investors did it bc they were forced to protect Jonas's reputation for some reason or another. Them killing Jonas also ties up any loose ends between them
I’m 100% on board with it being Manstrong and explaining all his weird guilt and sexual hang ups that could be exploited to brainwash him into a Manchurian Candidate
I like the theory, but I'd tweak it a little. Manstrong masturbated to the video, and in his orgasm bumped the control to open the bay doors. Thus causing the massacre and leaving the young man with crippling guilt over his own sexuality.
I had always assumed that Jonas JR got his cancer from the ray shield that Rusty had turned on and tested on earth.
I think that scar bear is a hank clone that never died. We do know is fairly mentally unhinged so maybe one day he snapped killed dean and just sorta wondered off to do more bad shit
Caledon Local 21 or Mr. Bear's Cellar,
that is a good idea you have; but hammer said they never finished what scarbear is
he is fron the creepy pasta i listed above
I think what monarch says in response to 21 thinking his breakup with debby is true that he has way more reasons to hate rusty than just that, and that hes always hated him since he was a kid as show with rusty taking his toys. malchom tried to kill rusty back in college with an explosion witch seems like before he had his run in with bobbi and debbi
In terms of timeline years, I honestly just think that since obviously the Venture Bros. universe is far more advanced than ours, any references to things we know from after the early 2000's don't actually mean anything or that the show takes place after that, but just that it happened sooner. So I believe that the show takes place between 2003-2007, and like comic books and a lot of properties Venture Bros. takes inspiration from, the timeline appears to “slide" more aesthetically towards whatever the real world is like when the show is airing, and it just works more well in the Venture Bros favor because the show operates on an altered version of history anyway so they don't even have to change the year when they incorporate references to recent events (like didn't the moon landing happen in the early 1900's in the show? If the moon landing happened 67 years before it really happened it wouldn't shock me if things like Uber or the live action Inhumans show may exist in 2007).
Buuuuuuut what about the “or the Zoe Kravitz in High Fidelity” line?she would’ve been a child in 2003 and just turned 18 in ‘07
I don't think Debbie was the reason for Malcoms hatred, I think the hatred predates it due to Malcom going after Rusty as early as College years.
I figured that the Debbie bit they mention in the movie is what made Malcom aware of Rusty, but that the fact that they knew each other from childhood and that monarch has the aggressive DNA of a territorial ape meant he was fated to perceive Rusty as a threat from the moment they met.
Also the return of Ventronic absolutely made my day in the film, wow what a callback.
Loved these recaps and would love more deep dives into the venture bros.!!
In terms of the Black Hearts at the Prom...The reason I have always thought they were NOT Black Hearts was because when Molotov darts Brock in the back she looks at the pro and asks her "Do you want to live?" The pro looks actually scared and says "yes", and Molotov says "Then get back to your Prom". So, I think Molotov has seen this Pro's at the party, and using that to her advantage when talking with Brock later.
Malcolm is R22, implying as many as 21 prior 'Rusty's', and was given baboon dna to counteract that specific symptom. Balding is one of the symptoms Ben checks Dean for, which implies that it's a cloning defect, present in Rusty, and which they attempted to correct in later 'versions'.
I always thought a better name for "The Wild Fop" would be "The Impuratian", which was my headcanon name for him for a few years.
It's a pretty minor thing, but I always took, "Oh, you know, magic guy" as just a winking joke. Orpheus probably heard exactly what happened with Hank, both the coma and his disappearance. Byron IS pretty close with the whole Venture bunch. It doesn't take a genius to know Dean would follow Hank to the ends of the Earth, either. But, hey, it's a good way to put a nice young man at ease.
I would absolutely love a Metalocalypse timeline video!
same. Or just more Venture Bros content in general!
@shadowchu419 or at least a primer on the Metalocalypse universe.
Yes please! Only issue is that years and even exact dates are given but much more rarely compared to Venture Bros. I made my own but it’s very obviously a work in progress and I made it for my fan fics but I can make a version that takes out those parts I guess
Update: Post-movie here….yeah admittedly even with the movie in like you kind of have to do A LOT of legwork since there’s a lot of character backstory still left unexplained. Like I honestly still don’t know what the f🎸 Salacia’s deal even is TBH
Seconded
Meteor Majeure is (unsurprisingly) not a "direct copy" of a very specific unfinished concept from early Dr. Who lmao: it's a blatant reference to Asteroid M, an orbital space station created by Magneto that looks awfully similar to the one in the show.
The movie proved this once and for all with Force Majeure's design being so clearly inspired by Magneto's.
Didn't Kano already talk about killing a great man. Wouldn't that have been the Blue Morpho? I think we can all see Jonas extorting Kano into having to "fix" the plane.
Debra dumped Monarch when her mum saw his super villain outfit and forbade her from getting back into that life. By the time Monarch starts being Monarch he has already tried to kill Rusty in college. So I don’t think Debra is the reason Monarch hates Rusty. The Monarch himself says that’s like reason 100 why he hates Venture.
I think Hunter and Mol were playing a long game. We see the sphinx operative who would be revealed as Mol introduced early in season 4, partnering with Brock. She then reveals her involvement with Monstroso, they get away, are captured by the OSI again, and reveal that she was hired by Hunter to clear out double agents in the OSI. I struggle to believe that she infiltrated Sphinx, never took her mask off, and never spoke, without a paranoid bastard like Hunter noticing, so I believe that she is working for him then, if not as early as when Hunter was a member of the blackhearts in season 3.
Given Force Majeure is clearly at least visually based on Magneto, Meteor Majeure is definitely more of a reference to Asteroid M than Shada from Doctor Who if its even referencing that at all.
I always thought it made scenes that Rusty was a clone Jonas. That Rusty turned out the way he did not because of some failure in the cloning tec but in the way Jonas raised him. Jonas could have had a perfect super scientist son but because he was so neglectful, self-absorbed, and a narcissist that he just ruined Rusty making him full of self doubt and have substance abuse problems.
The episode where Dean met Bens H.E.L.P.E.R and he said "Goodbye Rusty Venture" made me think the implication was that Dean was originally a clone of Rusty
apearently they misdirected us, the audience a lot on purpose
I think Scare Bear was Hank. Dean is a scientifically gifted genius. He does seem to suffer from deep depression which probably would have lead him to villainy. Hank, although somewhat stupid, is more physically gifted. He actually passes the test to join Sphinx but Brock doesn't let him join. My guess is that Hank travels to the past to show his younger self the truth and bring them together again, preventing Dean's downfall
I'm sad that the movie is potentially the last bit of new VB content we will ever get, but at the same time, happy they were able to give it an acceptable wrap up ending, with a potential to continue if the possibility presents itself
I've rewatched Venture bros so many times and thank you for pointing out the Sovereigns death. How the hell did I never notice he was the shot eagle🤦♂️
If I recall right, there was one more bit about Kim in the show; not an appearance but I recall Triana basically mentioning that she went all 'born again Christian' when Hank asked about her, which I think was in the prom episode?
Billy doesn't remember his hand because his mind was wiped before he got dropped off at the venture compound at the end of the episode
In response to Dr. Orpheus never displaying powers of prediction, the very definition of necromancy is "the supposed practice of communicating with the dead, especially in order to predict the future." This is all something I recently learned. -mancy means divination. So Geomancy means Diviniation via the earth. Necromancy means divination via the dead.
Immediately after the Brock killing compilation, an ad ran for Tide beginning with the statement, "Life is messy..."
Either it was a touch of accidental comedy, or TH-cam has become self-aware and has a sense of humor.
I believe it's stated that the sovereign met bowie at a party, jonas being the highly famous socialite he was, i don't think it's impossible for all characters to meet each other at some point in the past
also i like to believe that when Orpheus replies, "Oh, you know, magic guy." he's actually being somewhat sarcastic, he probably knows Hank is missing by this point, and I believe Orpheus demonstrated some clairvoyant ability earlier in the show when Dean was around? but either way, he is a magic guy to Dean, so Orpheus can deduct why Dean would be there. I also think it's not within the realm of possibility for the magic man to just make a health prediction based off of action man's current health state, gleaned when he grabbed him
Jonas Jr didn't get cancer from genetics. Rusty was meant to be a perfect clone, but the zygote split and then ate the perfect clone . Jonas Sr was under the impression the DNA WAS perfect, because JJ's DNA was in it, so he assumed Rusty would grow into a perfect clone of himself, when that didn't happen, he stopped loving his son.
Force Majeure is technically Hank and Dean's biological grandfather.
Gonna be honest, the lengths that the Monarch went through just to arch and torment venture just for it to be chocked up to him believing that venture slept with Debbie just doesn't sit right for me. In the movie he says that's just a list of reasons why he hates venture, maybe not the main one. Some observations I think back to is the scene where he's going off on venture during Hatred's house party and in another episode he "Wanted to build a machine to kick his ass", His words and the weight of them had too much raw emotion to just being "he slept with my girlfriend". I just assumed it was his genetic aggression, due to him being babboon and venture just so happened to satiate that hatred, Like maybe during college just seeing Rusty triggered him, like an uncanny valley feeling since they're the same person, It would explain how his first attempt to kill venture was in college when he telling the council in season 3. Or funny theory, since they both had the same creative writing class, Doc clowned him and it was the first time monarch was ever mocked, just my head cannon tho.
Would ABSOLUTELY enjoy more Venture Bros stuff from you. Or like everyone else is saying Metalocalypse as well. Two really good shows
25:05 ACTUALLY the original meaning of Necromancer was someone who contacts the dead to divine the future. As in foretelling the future. So it would be quite consistent with him being a necromancer.
I'm guessing rusty took time off after every instance of the boys dying or at least nearly all of them. Which means even if he took a year off at least half the time, that'd still be like 7 years. Plus the time hank jumped off the roof it was just one of them so they likely had to lie to Dean or wipe his memory.
or kill dean?
JJ got cancer from firing the giant 1960s laser on spider skull island not from being defective
I'm pretty sure Dr. O didn't need magic to know why Dean was there, that's a pretty simple puzzle to put together. I bet he just likes saying 'magic' whenever anyone asks how he knows something.
The whole cloning project was said to have started out of Jonas's guilt.
To me, this is definitive proof that the original Rusty was a biological son, not a clone. And he died on one of their adventures. The guilt being that their adventures were always Jonas's doing. Maybe Force Majeur is the one who killed the original Rusty to make him Jonas's arch, as you're right that we literally never see him before the movie or interacting with Jonas in any way.
But Rusty is a son, not a clone. Why else would he look so different too? Just like the boys are Rusty's sons, not clones.
I disagree, but I like where you’re starting out from. I think Rusty was *ALWAYS* a Jonas Sr clone. My theory on Force Majeure is that he found out the truth about either Jonas or Rusty or was maybe even a former Team Venture member himself (keeping with the Magneto/Xavier parallel) that turned against Jonas after finding out the truth about the whole cloning operation or Jonas himself.
I mean “Force Majeure” basically means “Act of God/Divine Intervention”, so maybe he saw himself as fighting Jonas due to seeing his experiments as against nature or as Jonas as seeing HIMSELF as a “god” and thinking he needed to be brought down a few pegs
@@HyperiaxonRex
Not a single Rusty or Malcolm even resembles Jonas, Sr. The ONLY trait is that the Rustys and Malcolms have the same nose shape, just greatly exaggerated. The Hank and Dean clones are all absolutely identical, and we know Rusty didn't improve upon anything his dad made, so the perfect mirror-image clone capability was already there. Hence why every Rusty looks the same, but no Rusty looks like Jonas.
And we're given plenty of reasons to believe that Jonas has impregnated multiple women.
Jonas's promiscuity + the guilt line + this still falling in line with Jonas thinking of his son as a science project = Rusty was originally a biological son, died on an adventure, and Jonas cloned him.
Edit: Maybe original Rusty was offed by a HELPER? Would help explain why Jonas was actually so effective about getting rid of them, but he also is his egotistical self, so he kept a dumbed down one specifically for Rusty. I only literally just thought of that right now.
@@HyperiaxonRex
Also, I studied French for years. Force Majeure literally means "greater force". It's the French equivalent of Deus ex Machina, basically.
Rusty, Monarch, and JJ wouldn’t look exactly like Jonas due to environmental factors and nurture over nature. We only see Rusty as a child, never Jonas, and Rusty wasn’t as athletic or physically fit as Jonas due to his insecurities of growing up with the OG Team Venture. JJ is the closest to being the spitting image of Jonas facially, but I’d say Rusty/Monarch as adults have slightly different facial features and head shapes due to diet.
So child Rusty could have started as more identical to what Jonas may have looked like as a child, then diverged slightly as time went on. Also, there’s a possibility that even if they didn’t start as direct clones of Jonas, Rustys might have still been test tube babies from the very beginning at least. The reason I think so is Doc tells Dean he to THIS DAY still has no clue or idea who his mother was. So it could either be he just was never as curious as Hank and Dean or was so traumatized and bullied by Team Venture that he eventually gave up asking, or that he truly never was “born” in a conventional sense, and was incubated in the very same surrogate womb we see Hank and Dean in at the end of the movie.
@@HyperiaxonRex
Not knowing who Rusty's mom is works with my "Jonas was very promiscuous" factoid just as well as your test tube idea.
Edit: Also, is the actress Rusty's mom?
Also also, Rusty & Malcolm don't have to look the same because they specifically talk about how Malcolm is a tweaked clone.
I think scare bear might be the second Brock from return to the house of mummies 2, a Brock that lost his way and still hangs around just in case the boys are in trouble
Caledon Local 21 or Mr. Bear's Cellar,
The thing with many different versions of Phantom Limb's origins is one of my favorite Rashomon effect examples
I'm sorry but we do have an idea of how old the boys are.
Firstly in the episode The Invisible Hand of FATE, we see Dr venture cowering in fear from Myra as she's taken away this is shortly after the boys have been born as they are seen as babies being held by helper in the background. Rusty has the same beard and hairstyle as he does at the end of the movie.
In season 1 the episode past tense Dr Orpheus tells the action man that he has 2 years and 17 days before he has a stroke, the action man has a stroke in season 7 so we know it's been at least two years.
In the episode I Know Why the Caged Bird kills, Myra says that they are 19 years old. "in all of your 19 years"
We can deduce that the original boys would be about 21.
Since Jonas gave her invisibility powers, I think it's reasonable to assume that he gave Sovereign his powers, and has maybe given MANY heroes and Villains their powers. Maybe his father did too near the fall of the original Guild.
I like where your head is at. The whole generation and shift to “powered” heroes/villains was entirely because of Jonas, one way or another. There are no powered or “Freaks” in the original Guild so my theory is the “explosion” of super powered costumed heroes/villains is due to something Jonas Sr did to the human genome at large, or he personally one way or another directly or indirectly helped create them.
It'd be interesting to look at how the Monarch and Dr. Mrs. The Monarch percieve Hank and Dean pre-clone reveal, since assumedly they'd be thinking that they're Debbie's kids. Hank has a striking resemblance to his mom/donor based on what we've seen of her.
I forget which episode, but kim does get mentioned when asked by hank and they are told she became a born again christian and moved away.
Man, watching the movie just makes me want more Venture Bros.!
I think Rusty’s twin in the womb was also closer genetically to his dad and that’s why he got cancer and died. With Rusty and Monarch having a variety of dna, then Rusty actually perfected cloning without realizing using his father’s work as a base.
I think the main reason Jonas Jr. died is because he made a deal with the investors. Just an idea.
his cancer ws from doc s mistakes making G2, which mutated the interns
Id love that deep dive into character references in the venture bros, but if you do it, you need to go all in. ALLLLLL in. Time won't be an issue to anyone whether it be the lengthy of video or time it takes to make said video
I am still hanging on timeline issue since Dermit was as old as the other two for the whole series once he was introduced and he did not age a lot throughout the timeline. Before he showed up it could be any time, but once you show someone their age and keep them it is harder to be like 'it could be years' yet Dermit is not aging that much. Also Salley's child Rocket also did not age up, every time we see him.
Given Rocket's parents were mutated by cosmic energy, that could explain why he himself doesn't seem to age.
@@Darkgun231 That really does not make sense since the show would have brought that up as a joke. Also we know when Rusty runs away it is only one month (he tells J.J. he was only gone for a month). All of the dead Hank and Deans we saw in Rusty's mind are only the ones listed in season 2. Triana would have said something about them staying young since they age with the boys. Other clones get killed off so no more cloning after season 3. So, all messed up timing would be before the show started. Rusty says his age '43' in the start of the show (during the midlife crises he said in season one). Myra (who thought she was the boys' mom) only put them at age 19 meaning only 3 years were messed up (since it was after the boys' '16th' birthday). Also Dr. Orphus made the timeline of a little over two years when he told action man a stroke was going to happen (he did not say death only said that was when it happens) when Action man had a stroke Dr. Orphus was not surprised when he calmly said 'a stroke' meaning that was the stroke he was talking about.
I thought they had trianna tell the boys when they asked about her and said she got Christiany and hangs out with gap kids if I'm remembering right.
Acutally Prof. O not cursing someone is in line with his rather ethical use of magic, and the original meaning of necromancy was to divine knowledge by speaking with the dead - before pop culture made it about summoning zombies. So Prof. O as a necromancer being capapble to divine someones exact date and reason for death is very much in line with his skillset.
The copyright date for "Follow That Bikini" is 1968.
Movienight Massacre theory: Blue Morpho played the tape and Jonas blew the hatch himself, knowing Team Venture would save him with the P.R.O.B.L.E.M. (which would have worked if his body were whole.).
I have a theory of what caused the Movie Night Massacre and untimely “death” of Jonas Venture Sr.
I believe Bud Manstrong accidentally caused the bay doors to open…
During the Movie Night Massacre, Vendata/Venturian/Blue Morpho had a copy of the sex tape that he was planning to expose Jonas with. And it has been shown that Bud Manstrong tends to black out when confronted with traumatic or extreme sexual events. I believe that Bud accidentally played the sex tape after Sharky’s Machine ended and was traumatized by it that he accidentally pulled the lever causing the shuttle bay doors to open killing everyone not wearing a Space Suit (Red Death etc) this would explain why he out of all people survived being launched into space (because he would be in the sealed control room at the time)
This off hand, minor and weird series of event is very much in line with Doc Hammer and Jackson Publick writing style
The Dr. O death prediction looks like a reference to an X-Files episode, Clyde Bruckman's Final Repose, S3E4, where Peter Boyle plays a character who can do that.
One thing to note about the memories is the OSI has shown to have memory wipe technology (as used by Sphinx) , but also the learning beds show memories can be stored for clonies and induced into the brain during sleep (with possible side effects, unstated...). Its likely that all the characters have been altered by this technology somehow, even Hunter, despite being head of OSI
good mention, i was wonderubg why no one said ths
@@IamsTokiWartooth the other factor is Rusty and alot of characters have drug use (and alcahol) problems, and that may contribute to the memory issues.
@@helpconflict9851 the learning bed issue was the main take I got from your post. they obviously made the two boys knowledge level different. whidh is why so many suspected wrongly early on that one was a doc clone and hank a clone of brock
Dunno if you do another one of these, but i think action man killed rusty at least once, rusty mentions the action man putting a gun to his head, pulling the trigger and saying "not today rusty"
I don’t know if you are going to do another VB Q&A video, but I have two questions anyway:
1) Helper V2. What/who is he? It gets mentioned that he is partly human (likely meaning his part of his brain is organic) but who was the donor Jonas(looking for a new way to live forever), Ben, Rusty?
2) What did MUTHER the AI want to talk to Jonas about so badly? She has an obsession with Jonas and is also extremely p*ssed off at him. Is she just a malfunctioning computer program or is there some Glados style situation at play? Is she Rusty’s mom - maybe she was the Caroline to Jonas Venture’s Cave Johnson? Either way she’s still under the compound...
1) I think Helper 2.0 has any of Jonas/Ben/Rusty’s brains as a template but is effectively his own “person” regardless of who regardless
2) I don’t think MUTHER is Rusty’s real mother. I don’t think he even ever had one. She *might* be based on a real human brain, but I think her personality is her own and “organically” generated.