I really respect the science behind what you are trying to teach us… I tried your method incorporating polish and tangzhong … omg!! Mind blown 🤯 results … the absolute bessssssst cinnamon rolls ever made…. Thank you !! Thank you!! New subscriber!!
your historical, chemical, practical commentary is just fantastic. your technique is also super informative. came for the tangzong bt stayed for the pretzels. pH rules!
Hi, I'm a fan of baked goods and I just discovered your channel today. I want to tell you that I am subscribed to several channels of this kind, but looking at yours, it is for the first time that I am really impressed and very excited about absolutely everything. From the very professional way in which you explain the entire technological process to the final result, but not least your rare and discreet smile that shows that you are a person with a good soul. Thank you and I hope you will allow me to be your subscriber for all the recipes you will post from today.
Thank you. Excellent video. I am binge watching them! Do you have a video on how to make Vietnamese bahn mi bread? If not, perhaps you will consider making one?
I've made shokupan a few times in the last couple of weeks, had another recipe as base but instead of their tangzhong 6.7% adapted it to Yudane 20. We don't have strong bread flour here, so with denaturing the glutenin and gliadin in 20% of the flour and enrichment with butter, I wasn't confident of getting sufficient gluten development so added vital wheat gluten to increase remaining flour to 14% protein. Additionally I added a half hour autolyse to assist further and a quarter teaspoon ascorbic acid (would be interested to see your take on ascorbic acid as a dough improver). Perfect results, kids are thrilled with their lunches. Was already quite experienced with breads before finding your channel, but I feel like your content has helped me reach a new level of confidence with regards to adapting recipes for my own goals - thanks!
Hi Seraphine. This is a really wonderful recipe. I replaced the wheat flour with light spelt flour and used oat milk instead of cow's milk. The breads turned out really well. Thank you very much for the beautiful recipe and the many instructive explanations in all your videos.
@@NovitaListyanihi - I am so glad to have found your channel 😊 I found you while researching tangzhong. I am allergic to wheat. Is there a way to make buns and fluffy bread with no wheat? ❤🙏❤
I've used a simpler shokupan recipe that uses rice flour porridge; I'm looking forward to trying this one. I truly LOVE the rice flavor in the bread and your scientific explanation re: why this works makes it even more compelling. thank you! I'm really enjoying your channel and have SO many recipes to try! especially youtiao with sourdough and poolish; yum! that plus soymilk sounds like the PERFECT breakfast.
I am very interested in the use of rice. I am about to take a deeper dive into the world of baking as i have just ordered my first mixer. Making Congee sounds easy enough and i look forward to seeing how i can incorporate that into bread dough. Thank you for your demonstration of Tangzhong.
Using rice for bread is indeed very interesting, although here we use rice flour for tangzhong, there have been a few studies on using rice or rice congee to make bread, so there's definitely a lot to explore. Happy baking!
I just recently discovered the use of biga for shokupan and was surprised at how much better it turned out for me compared to yudane/tangzhong, so I’m super excited to try this recipe! Thank you so much for sharing and for your detailed explanation and steps!
I don't think biga is intended as a substitute for yudane. They serve different or separate purposes. The biga is a preferment for flavor development while contributing to the yeast leavening of the final dough. Yudane adds to flavor differently with sweetness, but also affects texture, hydration qualities, and affects starch behavior with slower staling.
@@veyyazel5042 No, the opposite. The commenter says biga turned out better than yudane, but they can be both done and are not competing techniques really. They serve different purposes one primarily of flavor development (biga) and the other primarily textural and gentle sweetness (yudane).
Hi. Love these videos. I have seen some recipes that include powder milk ~6% of flour. Have you tried using powder milk? If so, why is it not part of your ultimate bread recipe? Super curious. Thx!!
I just found your channel today and I am so impressed with all the research and applying it. I want to make that shoku pan, I just wanna know how long did you bake it in the oven and in what temperature? Because I believe we have the same diameter of the pan
Seraphine, I love this bread very muchie too 😢, but I can never get it to fill up the pan to the brim when it’s baking. I can’t get that rectangular shokupan look that I want so badly. I scaled up the recipe slightly where my total flour weight is 375 and it still can’t fill up all the edges. I think I have made this loaf 5 times. Do you have any possible reasons as to why my over spring is poor or is it down to my proofing. I have tried proofing to 80%, 90% and till it reaches the Pullman loaf lid but it never fills up the corners of the pan
On my second loaf and having exactly the same problem, I measured the volume of my pan and adjusted the total flour to 343g and still no luck. For the next one I'll try a bigger batch, maybe 400g and go for a 3rd proof with the rolls before putting them in the pan
Fascinating, I wish your commentary included why biga and not poolish, also why you opted for no egg. Does the added strength from the biga replace the egg? Did the historical recipe also use biga?
The main reason for using a biga in this recipe is the hydration. Since we're using fresh milk, the amount of water we can allocate to the pre-ferment is limited, that's why we switched out our poolish for a biga instead.
Sorry if I missed it, but did you mention the best gluten level for the bread flour - e.g. 11%-12% or 13%-14%? I understand that Japanese bread flour is somewhat different from their US equivalent. I've also come across recipes that call for sweet (glutinous) rice flour rather that ordinary rice flour - would this change the recipe? Should you also use yeast designed for sweet breads (e.g. SAF Gold) rather than normal yeast? Thanks!
The protein content of the flour we use is about 13%, and given the difference in starch characteristics, it would be better to use regular rice flour instead of glutinous rice flour. As for yeast, technically speaking, you could use both kinds of yeast, since the amount of sugar is on the low end of the sweet bread scale. To be safe though, you could stick to SAF Gold, although fermentation time might be faster.
I tried this recipe a few times now. The bread comes out great. Always a hit at my family event. The only problem is yudane’s water amount seems too much. I needed to add more flour or reduce or it’s too liquidy. With a bit adjustment, best bread I’ve made
Yes, overnight or 24-hour Tangzhong does give better results. For baking in a Pullman, we bake for 35 minutes overall at 190°C, this baking time, though, can vary depending on your oven, make sure to experiment for the best results.
very nice recipe. I have a question here. If one use cold wheat flour and 5% cold rice flour for a bread, will the result still be better than a bread with only cold wheat flour? (No yudane here)
Two questions, If i dont have time to use the biga do i have to increase the amount of yeast like 1.8g like in the other shokupan video? And if i use the biga, when u say overnight in fridge u mean 12h, 18 or 24h?
You can increase the amount of yeast to speed up the dough, but as a consequence, the flavor might become less complex and may even become too "yeasty" if you use too much yeast. I usually leave the biga in the fridge for up to 16 h.
Thank you so much for this video. I am hoping to make the tangzhong and the biga tomorrow and bake over the weekend. May I ask, do you think the grind of the rice flour matters? I have both fine (Giusto’s) and stone ground (Bob’s Red Mill) at home. Thank you
We mostly use fine rice flour, but I am so sure the stone ground one will do just fine. One of the differences that may influence starch gelatinization is the degree of the damaged starch. Damaged starch is very hygroscopic and it can absorb more water than regular starch.
@@redtango75 It has 24 hours bulk fermentation in the fridge, so you can get away with less. Still seems like a fairly small amount even considering that, however didn't look like there was any problems in the rise either.
Man love youre videos although i do have a hard time following since it's a lot of science terms lol. I'm still a bit confused on ratio water to flour. do we still use a percentage of the total flour in the recipe and weight in gram and use the same amount of water to the flour? for example total flour is 250g, using 8% for the tangzhoung. 8% of 250 = 20g of flour. and then I pour 20g of boiled water and mix until i get the roux. Is that correct? Thank you
A lot of misinformation makes this simple method sound like something way too complicated. The steps are: 1. Decide on the amount of flour to use for the tangzhong (10-20% of the total flour, baker's percentage). Deduct this amount of flour from the original recipe. 2. Prepare boiling water. Either in a 1:1 flour to water ratio, or 1:2. Reduce this amount of water from the original recipe. 3. Make the tangzhong as instructed in this video. 4. Let it rest overnight or for up to 24 hours in the fridge. 5. Use it as a derivative ingredient in the final dough 6. For optimal dough development you may want to add 2-3% more water. Baker's percentage of course.
I would like to ask why did you opt to use biga over poolish? Also do you think using poolish/tangzhong combination would yield the same results as the biga/tangzhong combination? When making the loaf I think adjustments might need to be made as my total weight was 582 not 614. I not good at figuring the recipe ratio like you but to get a 1-1.5 loaf I may need total weight of 680 grams? Your thoughts would be greatly welcome.
Hi Novita. May I ask what you consider as a Bread Flour? Is it white (T500) or half white (T850)? I found the term bread flour being different in USA or France or Italy. Thanks for your answer. Greg
Ok. I had to research by myself :) What you call bread flour is called White Strong flour in England, while in France there are types marked his: Flour Cake/Pastry Flour - Farine T45. All-purpose Flour - Farine T55. High Gluten Flour - Farine T65. Light Whole Wheat Flour - Farine T80. Whole Wheat Flour - Farine T110. Dark Whole Wheat - Farine T150.
I think it would be helpful if we discuss different types of flour classifications , if your audience is wider than the USA alone. Just a suggestion. 🙂
I tried this recipe. I made the biga and tangzhong and refrigerated them. What was suppose to be 8-12 hours turned into a whole week because I got a bad cold. I proceeded with the recipe yesterday. It took over 6 hours for the first rise. The final dough weigh was 582 grams instead of 614 grams. Due to the gram shortage I rolled it up in loaf style. Do you think this was due to evaporation because of the length of time biga and tangzhong was refrigerated? I will try again. 😂
Hi! What percentage protein is your bread flour? In the US and use King Arthur brand-12.7%. My Tangzhong didn’t have the same gelatinized look as in one of your recent videos where you poured the boiling water over the flour. It was looser even though I weighed flour and refrigerated overnight. I’m thinking maybe the flour maybe the issue.
Quick overnight ;D Serious though I've noticed the same thing, maybe higher protein needed? I've been using AP+VWG with the instacalc thing and going for 12.7 but now I need rice starch -_-
The bread flour here has a 12-14% protein content. I always assume it to be 13%. When preparing Tangzhong or Yudane, start with the boiling water first, and then the flour. Do not pour water into the flour, if you do that, you'll get lumps of hydrated flour. I'd like to stress on the boiling water, although the temperature needed for gelatinization is only 65°C, in the method I use, using boiling water is the right approach to achieve that objective. Watch this video for an explanation: th-cam.com/video/DjQ7EtvzK_w/w-d-xo.html if your water temperature is too low, not much gelation will happen and you'll end up with a slurry that has less gelatinized starch, also as explained in the video, too much boiling water must be avoided, for the many reasons stated in the videos.
Hello can I ask you a question, I'm planning to open small tamago sando shop at Viet Nam, where is hard to find bread like Shokupan and Tangzhong because people prefer Banh mi which is crunch outside and soft inside but kind of dry. So I decide produce Tangzhong or Shokupan bread, and I don't know vertical or horizontal oven which is the best for the bread?
Hey, ive been enjoying your content a lot and before discovering your channel, i have been doing many things wrong. Could you share with me your bread flour protein % and milk fat %? Thank you
Thank you. The many brands of bread flour I've used so far have protein contents ranging from 12-13%. As for the fresh milk, I usually calculate the fat content as 3.5%.
Have you experimented with the addtion of vital wheat gluten and do you have a baker's % recommendation for your posted recipe...that will would reduce the shrinkage? Thanks.
Did this recipe by any chance accidentally omit a second dose of yeast for the final dough (e.g. the 1/4 tsp yeast as in _The Ultimate Basic Asian Bread 2.0 with Tangzhong and Poolish_ recipe)? I just made this and it was very soft and tasty but didn't seem to be fully risen. Also was wondering why this is baked at a lower temperature. Thanks!
No, it's meant to be that way. We don't use a second dose of yeast, because we wanted to build more flavor. The time needed for it to rise may vary depending on your room temperature, so you might have to adjust it. As for the baking temperature, it's actually higher in this recipe than it is "The Ultimate Basic Asian Bread 2.0", and that has more to do with the shape of the bread. The buns and shokupan are larger than the small rolls we made before.
@@NovitaListyani Whoops, turns out I converted the temperature incorrectly for The Ultimate... recipe! 😊 It's around 20 C here right now, so I put the loaf pan under a heat lamp for about an hour, but may need to make it longer next time or add just a little extra yeast to the final dough. Thanks!
@@NovitaListyani FYI - remade this recipe, adding 1/4 tsp yeast to the final dough (and baking at the right temp, this time!). Don't think that it affected the taste, but the volume certainly made up for it, got a perfectly shaped loaf. BTW, this makes great toast, much better than the ultimate recipe, for some reason.
I’m following this recipe as we go along and my Tangzong did not come out crumbly like yours. I have an electronic scale that measures grams. I made the Tangzong again because I thought maybe I was doing something wrong and it came out exactly the same as before: 115g Boiling water 15 g rice flour 65g wheat flour (King Arthur) I’m wondering if I did something wrong. In the past, to make Tangzong, I made it in a pan over the stove and it would get really thick and sticky
Is there a reason not to make the entire tangzhong out of rice flour? What purpose does adding wheat flour to the tangzhong serve outside of muting some of the rice flavour?
Another difference (besides the addition of rice flour) from the previous shokupan recipe is the omission of the whole egg. Was this discussed in a previous video? The shokupan recipe of yours I saw included an egg. Is this change related to the rice flour or are they unrelated?
Not at all. At the end of our previous Shokupan video with egg, there is a recipe for eggless Shokupan. th-cam.com/video/qdOHmdTTs24/w-d-xo.htmlsi=Tjs-eQ4FN_0vXTU2&t=1660
@@NovitaListyani How different is eggless vs egg shokupan? Which do you prefer and why? I now see the recipe at the end of the video. I did not notice that when watching the video- thanks for pointing that out.
I enjoy both equally, but prefer the egg version with more savory applications and the eggless for other general fillings. Ultimately, it's a matter of personal preference :)
For many reasons, research has shown that, for this kind of bread, it's best limiting the milk water replacement to around 25%. You may want to watch our previous video on Shokupan in which we discuss this topic, here is the link: th-cam.com/video/qdOHmdTTs24/w-d-xo.htmlsi=Wx8dJaqTQzCLbv26
Hello, would glutinous rice flour be viable as subtitute for rice flour for making yudane? (I dont know the difference between glutinous and rice flour
Do you think that matcha powder based milk breads are worth while. Looking at the tempuratures that take to cook the break fully will destroy the flavour of the matcha itself? Maybe worth only doing it with the trehalouse recipe?
Trehalose may improve it's physicochemical characteristics but even without it, the bread internal temperature is at most 90 plus °C, so I think using Matcha is still feasible, at least for the interior part.
Hello Seraphine, Svpl, j ai besoin de préparer 12 pains Hamburgers, je peux tout simplement doubler toutes les quantités de cette recette là ? et la biga et Tangzhong aussi je dois doubler la recette, svpl ?🙏
Ah, thank you. Tried it yesterday with glutinous rice flour, which I always have for making kimchi. Dough turned out much too stiff. I'm trying again today using half as much glutinous rice flour. But I'll get some plain rice flour soon.
I actually have a question. If you add additional ingredients, such as chocolate ribbons or chunks of pistachio/mochi or whatever, do you by percentage reduce weight of the dough to account for additional ingredients?
This segment at 26:57 has the information on rice flour used in this recipe, other than that we have no specific video on the role of rice flour in bread making.
That is not a good idea, the fat content will be too high for this recipe. Whipping cream has 36% fat content while milk has around 3.5% of fat content.
@Seraphine, oh no! Is THIS now the pole position recipe I use after our previous discussion (I updated the other day 😉)?!? 😂 And what is the filling you used at 30:41? OUTSTANDING VIDEO as usual! 👍 Edit: The rice flour in my cabinet is from Thailand and it’s ingredients are rice and water. Wondering if this will work, or whether I should run out to Whole Foods and grab some 100% pure white rice flour.
Recipe must be changed from time to time to avoid the banality of bread baking. That was Mungbean Durian paste that you saw in that link. I believe any rice flour will work.
@@NovitaListyani Hi Seraphine, THIS is THE recipe, as you said. End product came out fantastic. However, there were hiccups and challenges - curious your thoughts: California temperatures have gone down as much as 20°F since we began this shokupan journey together. So this initial ferment time was 2.5 hours. 😱 Total Dough Weight this time came in at 596 g. 😱 Searched for details about your nonstick coating, but couldn’t find any. Wondering if there is a significant benefit. Second rise was 2.5 hours - and it didn’t even fill 2/3 of the pan. 😱 Baked on the bottom rack 375°F, convection for 15 minutes, then regular bake for 20 minutes. Internal Temp was 210ºF Shockingly, the final product came out great and even touched the top cover fairly nicely. Wanting to put the recipe into a spreadsheet so I can scale. Which numbers are the changeable variables? Appreciate all the help! Alex
Do you know how to make the super soft bread from tours les jours? The one that is shaped like a small baguette, is super pale in color, extremely soft, and filled with milk cream? It’s called strawberry soft or milk soft, of matcha soft. I haven’t figured out how to make it that soft yet. I’ve heard it’s due to a chemical dough improver they use that we don’t have access to as home bakers.
Looking at the bread that you mentioned from Tous Les Jours, we actually have a recipe that makes soft shiropan like that using trehalose. You can check this video out: th-cam.com/video/KQhgxDLsIhU/w-d-xo.html Although it's a shokupan recipe, you could shape it into buns if you'd like.
@@NovitaListyaniI didn’t have any trehalose so looked online for an alternative. I came across a site that said I could use cornstarch instead. So I substituted same amount of cornstarch for the trehalose. It made the texture close to cake. I guess that makes sense because cake flour has cornstarch in it. I shaped them into buns similar to the soft tour les jours. Baked for 12 minutes and the came out soft and white. 😊
Cornstarch can't be used to replace trehalose, as they are fundamentally different. If you don't have trehalose on hand, then it's most likely best to just skip it, instead of using cornstarch.
Seraphim! I love your videos! very educational! My bread game is definitely levelling up, because of you! However, there is something I am very distracted by something your videos... this is going to maybe sound ridiculous, but, with each video, I find myself more consumed. To the point where I freeze frame to try and figure it out! WTF is going on with your background? Are you at the entrance to a bat cave? I don't mean to be disrespectful. Again, your videos are informative, you have a great personality and I learn a lot! But, dang, girl! I need to know what's going on in that creepy dark cave behind you!
@@robertogovernara You didn't mention him in this comment thread, and again that doesn't explain your assertion. Mentioning another baker doesn't explain anything. What aspect of what she did makes it not a biga and why? The 'why' is the key. That is why "why?" is the first question to your comment. But I suspect you have no good answer and came here just to sound knowledgeable. Are at the end, are those words? "dann write please"
Nice tip for the rice flour...the main topic of this video. BUT, on the very peripheral subject of the Biga, There were 2 mistakes. Never ever knead the Biga nor enbox it hermetically. You do not want to keep the gaz of the preferment inside the Biga but in the contrarie let them escape! That why you do not knead at all the Biga and you also do not close hermetically. Biga do not only addup for the texture and the proofing effect, but also for the flavour! Any video of an Italian pizza maker about How to make Biga, will show you the very specific look and texture of what a Biga is. It appears what you did wasn't Biga at all, but it was possibly closer to some kind of Pate fermentée. I would love if you decide to make a specific video on Biga one day. Cheers
I really respect the science behind what you are trying to teach us… I tried your method incorporating polish and tangzhong … omg!! Mind blown 🤯 results … the absolute bessssssst cinnamon rolls ever made…. Thank you !! Thank you!! New subscriber!!
your historical, chemical, practical commentary is just fantastic. your technique is also super informative. came for the tangzong bt stayed for the pretzels. pH rules!
Thanks!
Hi, I'm a fan of baked goods and I just discovered your channel today. I want to tell you that I am subscribed to several channels of this kind, but looking at yours, it is for the first time that I am really impressed and very excited about absolutely everything. From the very professional way in which you explain the entire technological process to the final result, but not least your rare and discreet smile that shows that you are a person with a good soul. Thank you and I hope you will allow me to be your subscriber for all the recipes you will post from today.
Fantastic! Thanks Seraphine 🙏🏼
Thank you. Excellent video. I am binge watching them! Do you have a video on how to make Vietnamese bahn mi bread? If not, perhaps you will consider making one?
I've made shokupan a few times in the last couple of weeks, had another recipe as base but instead of their tangzhong 6.7% adapted it to Yudane 20. We don't have strong bread flour here, so with denaturing the glutenin and gliadin in 20% of the flour and enrichment with butter, I wasn't confident of getting sufficient gluten development so added vital wheat gluten to increase remaining flour to 14% protein. Additionally I added a half hour autolyse to assist further and a quarter teaspoon ascorbic acid (would be interested to see your take on ascorbic acid as a dough improver). Perfect results, kids are thrilled with their lunches. Was already quite experienced with breads before finding your channel, but I feel like your content has helped me reach a new level of confidence with regards to adapting recipes for my own goals - thanks!
Your channel is diamond quality. Subbed. You should have way more subscribers! Great walkthrough of this dough!
I really appreciate the length of your research and explanation. Definitely the best baking channel I've seen out there:)
Hi Seraphine. This is a really wonderful recipe. I replaced the wheat flour with light spelt flour and used oat milk instead of cow's milk. The breads turned out really well. Thank you very much for the beautiful recipe and the many instructive explanations in all your videos.
Glad to hear that, thanks for sharing!
@@NovitaListyanihi - I am so glad to have found your channel 😊 I found you while researching tangzhong. I am allergic to wheat. Is there a way to make buns and fluffy bread with no wheat? ❤🙏❤
Nice job. Thank you for not editing out the process of mixing and forming 🎉
My pleasure 😊
Your knowledge and presentation is far above the so call experts. Keep your channel growing 👍
I've used a simpler shokupan recipe that uses rice flour porridge; I'm looking forward to trying this one. I truly LOVE the rice flavor in the bread and your scientific explanation re: why this works makes it even more compelling. thank you! I'm really enjoying your channel and have SO many recipes to try! especially youtiao with sourdough and poolish; yum! that plus soymilk sounds like the PERFECT breakfast.
Sounds great!
Thank you. It looks good. I normally use either poolish or tz. Never mix them before. Will try it.
I am very interested in the use of rice. I am about to take a deeper dive into the world of baking as i have just ordered my first mixer. Making Congee sounds easy enough and i look forward to seeing how i can incorporate that into bread dough. Thank you for your demonstration of Tangzhong.
Using rice for bread is indeed very interesting, although here we use rice flour for tangzhong, there have been a few studies on using rice or rice congee to make bread, so there's definitely a lot to explore. Happy baking!
I like your vdo. Thanks.
I watch it over & over till I learn it .
Still need to watch it . This is an Art of baking 😘😍🥰💓 💖🌷🌸🌹🫒🥀 🫡 👏 👌🙏
I just recently discovered the use of biga for shokupan and was surprised at how much better it turned out for me compared to yudane/tangzhong, so I’m super excited to try this recipe! Thank you so much for sharing and for your detailed explanation and steps!
I don't think biga is intended as a substitute for yudane. They serve different or separate purposes. The biga is a preferment for flavor development while contributing to the yeast leavening of the final dough. Yudane adds to flavor differently with sweetness, but also affects texture, hydration qualities, and affects starch behavior with slower staling.
@@ccbowers
So you mean its better to use one of them instead of use both of them?
@@veyyazel5042 No, the opposite. The commenter says biga turned out better than yudane, but they can be both done and are not competing techniques really. They serve different purposes one primarily of flavor development (biga) and the other primarily textural and gentle sweetness (yudane).
Hi. Love these videos. I have seen some recipes that include powder milk ~6% of flour. Have you tried using powder milk? If so, why is it not part of your ultimate bread recipe? Super curious. Thx!!
I just found your channel today and I am so impressed with all the research and applying it. I want to make that shoku pan, I just wanna know how long did you bake it in the oven and in what temperature? Because I believe we have the same diameter of the pan
Check out here: th-cam.com/video/hd-vdRnb-JI/w-d-xo.htmlsi=X1fZkrkeSsYzqelo&t=1504
Seraphine, I love this bread very muchie too 😢, but I can never get it to fill up the pan to the brim when it’s baking. I can’t get that rectangular shokupan look that I want so badly. I scaled up the recipe slightly where my total flour weight is 375 and it still can’t fill up all the edges. I think I have made this loaf 5 times.
Do you have any possible reasons as to why my over spring is poor or is it down to my proofing.
I have tried proofing to 80%, 90% and till it reaches the Pullman loaf lid but it never fills up the corners of the pan
On my second loaf and having exactly the same problem, I measured the volume of my pan and adjusted the total flour to 343g and still no luck. For the next one I'll try a bigger batch, maybe 400g and go for a 3rd proof with the rolls before putting them in the pan
Fascinating, I wish your commentary included why biga and not poolish, also why you opted for no egg. Does the added strength from the biga replace the egg? Did the historical recipe also use biga?
Thank you for this amazingly researched video! Question, do you use plain rice flour or glutinous/sweet rice flour?
Plain
Thank you for the eye opener of adding rice flour. Can you explain why biga was preferred and not poolish?
The main reason for using a biga in this recipe is the hydration. Since we're using fresh milk, the amount of water we can allocate to the pre-ferment is limited, that's why we switched out our poolish for a biga instead.
Sorry if I missed it, but did you mention the best gluten level for the bread flour - e.g. 11%-12% or 13%-14%? I understand that Japanese bread flour is somewhat different from their US equivalent. I've also come across recipes that call for sweet (glutinous) rice flour rather that ordinary rice flour - would this change the recipe? Should you also use yeast designed for sweet breads (e.g. SAF Gold) rather than normal yeast? Thanks!
The protein content of the flour we use is about 13%, and given the difference in starch characteristics, it would be better to use regular rice flour instead of glutinous rice flour. As for yeast, technically speaking, you could use both kinds of yeast, since the amount of sugar is on the low end of the sweet bread scale. To be safe though, you could stick to SAF Gold, although fermentation time might be faster.
@@NovitaListyani Thanks!
I want you to make sweet Christmas bread such as stollen, panettone by hand
Your explanation is awesome
Wow so well researched and explained! You deserve more views! ❤
I’ve just discovered you. I’d love to be a young person with you as my teacher. Your style is great.
🤩🤩🤩 miam...
Merci beaucoup pour cette superbe vidéo et ces explications 🙏🙏🙏
I tried this recipe a few times now. The bread comes out great. Always a hit at my family event. The only problem is yudane’s water amount seems too much. I needed to add more flour or reduce or it’s too liquidy. With a bit adjustment, best bread I’ve made
Can't wait to try this! Should the tangzhong go overnight in the fridge too? For the shokupan, is it also 180C? How long should a shokupan bake?
Yes, overnight or 24-hour Tangzhong does give better results. For baking in a Pullman, we bake for 35 minutes overall at 190°C, this baking time, though, can vary depending on your oven, make sure to experiment for the best results.
Thank you so much! Not only are you the best in explaining the science but you respond to questions. Love your channel!!
very nice recipe. I have a question here. If one use cold wheat flour and 5% cold rice flour for a bread, will the result still be better than a bread with only cold wheat flour? (No yudane here)
Two questions, If i dont have time to use the biga do i have to increase the amount of yeast like 1.8g like in the other shokupan video? And if i use the biga, when u say overnight in fridge u mean 12h, 18 or 24h?
You can increase the amount of yeast to speed up the dough, but as a consequence, the flavor might become less complex and may even become too "yeasty" if you use too much yeast. I usually leave the biga in the fridge for up to 16 h.
Thank you so much for this video. I am hoping to make the tangzhong and the biga tomorrow and bake over the weekend. May I ask, do you think the grind of the rice flour matters? I have both fine (Giusto’s) and stone ground (Bob’s Red Mill) at home. Thank you
We mostly use fine rice flour, but I am so sure the stone ground one will do just fine. One of the differences that may influence starch gelatinization is the degree of the damaged starch. Damaged starch is very hygroscopic and it can absorb more water than regular starch.
Thank you!@@NovitaListyani
Hi Seraphine. Thankyou for this amazing recipe. I wonder if its possible to make it dairy free and egg free and still getting similar results?
If I were to grind my own rice, does it matter which type I use? Thank you. I appreciate so much!
I ❤ this channel. Question... my market has rice flour and something called glutenous rice flour. Should I use the glutenous version?
No, just use the rice flour
Thank you. Just 1.0 gr of yeast in the biga for the total recipe seems low though. I'm going to bump it up a little.
@@redtango75 It has 24 hours bulk fermentation in the fridge, so you can get away with less. Still seems like a fairly small amount even considering that, however didn't look like there was any problems in the rise either.
Man love youre videos although i do have a hard time following since it's a lot of science terms lol. I'm still a bit confused on ratio water to flour. do we still use a percentage of the total flour in the recipe and weight in gram and use the same amount of water to the flour? for example total flour is 250g, using 8% for the tangzhoung. 8% of 250 = 20g of flour. and then I pour 20g of boiled water and mix until i get the roux. Is that correct? Thank you
A lot of misinformation makes this simple method sound like something way too complicated. The steps are: 1. Decide on the amount of flour to use for the tangzhong (10-20% of the total flour, baker's percentage). Deduct this amount of flour from the original recipe.
2. Prepare boiling water. Either in a 1:1 flour to water ratio, or 1:2. Reduce this amount of water from the original recipe.
3. Make the tangzhong as instructed in this video.
4. Let it rest overnight or for up to 24 hours in the fridge.
5. Use it as a derivative ingredient in the final dough
6. For optimal dough development you may want to add 2-3% more water. Baker's percentage of course.
I would like to ask why did you opt to use biga over poolish? Also do you think using poolish/tangzhong combination would yield the same results as the biga/tangzhong combination?
When making the loaf I think adjustments might need to be made as my total weight was 582 not 614. I not good at figuring the recipe ratio like you but to get a 1-1.5 loaf I may need total weight of 680 grams? Your thoughts would be greatly welcome.
Hi Novita. May I ask what you consider as a Bread Flour? Is it white (T500) or half white (T850)? I found the term bread flour being different in USA or France or Italy. Thanks for your answer. Greg
Bread flour is a high-protein flour that typically contains between 12% - 14% protein.
Ok. I had to research by myself :)
What you call bread flour is called White Strong flour in England, while in France there are types marked his:
Flour
Cake/Pastry Flour - Farine T45.
All-purpose Flour - Farine T55.
High Gluten Flour - Farine T65.
Light Whole Wheat Flour - Farine T80.
Whole Wheat Flour - Farine T110.
Dark Whole Wheat - Farine T150.
I think it would be helpful if we discuss different types of flour classifications , if your audience is wider than the USA alone. Just a suggestion. 🙂
We made a video on flour about one year ago:
th-cam.com/video/uNoxI1-jA88/w-d-xo.html
@@NovitaListyani 🤩🥰👍👍👍 Thank you. I had no idea you've been around for so long. Pitty I haven't met your channel before.
Thank you.
Great presentation! 👍
Do you think this can be successfully made without a mixer?
Yes, absolutely, with lots of efforts, of course 😊
I tried this recipe. I made the biga and tangzhong and refrigerated them.
What was suppose to be 8-12 hours turned into a whole week because I got a bad cold.
I proceeded with the recipe yesterday. It took over 6 hours for the first rise. The final dough weigh was 582 grams instead of 614 grams. Due to the gram shortage I rolled it up in loaf style.
Do you think this was due to evaporation because of the length of time biga and tangzhong was refrigerated?
I will try again. 😂
Hi! What percentage protein is your bread flour? In the US and use King Arthur brand-12.7%. My Tangzhong didn’t have the same gelatinized look as in one of your recent videos where you poured the boiling water over the flour. It was looser even though I weighed flour and refrigerated overnight. I’m thinking maybe the flour maybe the issue.
Quick overnight ;D
Serious though I've noticed the same thing, maybe higher protein needed? I've been using AP+VWG with the instacalc thing and going for 12.7 but now I need rice starch -_-
The bread flour here has a 12-14% protein content. I always assume it to be 13%. When preparing Tangzhong or Yudane, start with the boiling water first, and then the flour. Do not pour water into the flour, if you do that, you'll get lumps of hydrated flour.
I'd like to stress on the boiling water, although the temperature needed for gelatinization is only 65°C, in the method I use, using boiling water is the right approach to achieve that objective. Watch this video for an explanation: th-cam.com/video/DjQ7EtvzK_w/w-d-xo.html
if your water temperature is too low, not much gelation will happen and you'll end up with a slurry that has less gelatinized starch, also as explained in the video, too much boiling water must be avoided, for the many reasons stated in the videos.
Hello can I ask you a question, I'm planning to open small tamago sando shop at Viet Nam, where is hard to find bread like Shokupan and Tangzhong because people prefer Banh mi which is crunch outside and soft inside but kind of dry. So I decide produce Tangzhong or Shokupan bread, and I don't know vertical or horizontal oven which is the best for the bread?
Hey, ive been enjoying your content a lot and before discovering your channel, i have been doing many things wrong. Could you share with me your bread flour protein % and milk fat %? Thank you
Thank you. The many brands of bread flour I've used so far have protein contents ranging from 12-13%. As for the fresh milk, I usually calculate the fat content as 3.5%.
Have you experimented with the addtion of vital wheat gluten and do you have a baker's % recommendation for your posted recipe...that will would reduce the shrinkage? Thanks.
Did this recipe by any chance accidentally omit a second dose of yeast for the final dough (e.g. the 1/4 tsp yeast as in _The Ultimate Basic Asian Bread 2.0 with Tangzhong and Poolish_ recipe)? I just made this and it was very soft and tasty but didn't seem to be fully risen. Also was wondering why this is baked at a lower temperature. Thanks!
No, it's meant to be that way. We don't use a second dose of yeast, because we wanted to build more flavor. The time needed for it to rise may vary depending on your room temperature, so you might have to adjust it.
As for the baking temperature, it's actually higher in this recipe than it is "The Ultimate Basic Asian Bread 2.0", and that has more to do with the shape of the bread. The buns and shokupan are larger than the small rolls we made before.
@@NovitaListyani Whoops, turns out I converted the temperature incorrectly for The Ultimate... recipe! 😊 It's around 20 C here right now, so I put the loaf pan under a heat lamp for about an hour, but may need to make it longer next time or add just a little extra yeast to the final dough. Thanks!
@@NovitaListyani FYI - remade this recipe, adding 1/4 tsp yeast to the final dough (and baking at the right temp, this time!). Don't think that it affected the taste, but the volume certainly made up for it, got a perfectly shaped loaf. BTW, this makes great toast, much better than the ultimate recipe, for some reason.
I’m following this recipe as we go along and my Tangzong did not come out crumbly like yours. I have an electronic scale that measures grams. I made the Tangzong again because I thought maybe I was doing something wrong and it came out exactly the same as before:
115g Boiling water
15 g rice flour
65g wheat flour (King Arthur)
I’m wondering if I did something wrong. In the past, to make Tangzong, I made it in a pan over the stove and it would get really thick and sticky
Usually it has to do with the water temperature, make sure it's boiling (100°C/212°F)
👌 🙏 🙏 🙏 Thank you for sharing your Amazing knowledge . ❤🌾🌾🌹🌻🌷
helloo there! may I ask why youu don't include any eggs in this recipe?
Hey, I know nothing about bread, not sure why YT brought me here...but your bread looks dope and your video is informative.
I appreciate that
Is it white wheat flour or whole wheat flour or AP flour?
Is there a reason not to make the entire tangzhong out of rice flour? What purpose does adding wheat flour to the tangzhong serve outside of muting some of the rice flavour?
is it possible for us to add in pumpkin to make a pumpkin shokupan? if so, how many grams do you suggest?
Another difference (besides the addition of rice flour) from the previous shokupan recipe is the omission of the whole egg. Was this discussed in a previous video? The shokupan recipe of yours I saw included an egg. Is this change related to the rice flour or are they unrelated?
Not at all. At the end of our previous Shokupan video with egg, there is a recipe for eggless Shokupan. th-cam.com/video/qdOHmdTTs24/w-d-xo.htmlsi=Tjs-eQ4FN_0vXTU2&t=1660
@@NovitaListyani How different is eggless vs egg shokupan? Which do you prefer and why? I now see the recipe at the end of the video. I did not notice that when watching the video- thanks for pointing that out.
I enjoy both equally, but prefer the egg version with more savory applications and the eggless for other general fillings. Ultimately, it's a matter of personal preference :)
Can i use milk to the whole recipe? What would be the differences?
For many reasons, research has shown that, for this kind of bread, it's best limiting the milk water replacement to around 25%. You may want to watch our previous video on Shokupan in which we discuss this topic, here is the link: th-cam.com/video/qdOHmdTTs24/w-d-xo.htmlsi=Wx8dJaqTQzCLbv26
@@NovitaListyani love so much ur content s2
Can this recipe is used to make the Salted Bread(shio pan)
Surely you can do that.
Hello, would glutinous rice flour be viable as subtitute for rice flour for making yudane? (I dont know the difference between glutinous and rice flour
No, needs to be regular rice flour, not glutinous (glutinous rice flour has very different qualities, save that for making mocchi instead!).
Can I replace rice flour with tapioca flour?
Unfortunately no
Do you think that matcha powder based milk breads are worth while. Looking at the tempuratures that take to cook the break fully will destroy the flavour of the matcha itself? Maybe worth only doing it with the trehalouse recipe?
Trehalose may improve it's physicochemical characteristics but even without it, the bread internal temperature is at most 90 plus °C, so I think using Matcha is still feasible, at least for the interior part.
Hello Seraphine,
Svpl, j ai besoin de préparer 12 pains Hamburgers, je peux tout simplement doubler toutes les quantités de cette recette là ? et la biga et Tangzhong aussi je dois doubler la recette, svpl ?🙏
oui
@@NovitaListyani
Super, merci beaucoup.
J ai hâte de faire goûter vos pains à mes convives 😍
@@NovitaListyani mais la quantité de biga et de Tangzhong aussi je dois doubler les quantités ???
bien sûr, ils sont basés sur le pourcentage du boulanger
Is your rice flour plain rice flour, or glutinous rice flour?
Plain rice flour
Ah, thank you. Tried it yesterday with glutinous rice flour, which I always have for making kimchi. Dough turned out much too stiff.
I'm trying again today using half as much glutinous rice flour. But I'll get some plain rice flour soon.
I got some plain rice flour, tried again, and again the dough is much stiffer than yours.
Can you tell me what brand of rice flour you're using?
What size pan did you use? Is it 1 lb loaf pan? I want to try this, thanks!🙏
It's 1 lb Pullman loaf pan.
Thank you!
I actually have a question. If you add additional ingredients, such as chocolate ribbons or chunks of pistachio/mochi or whatever, do you by percentage reduce weight of the dough to account for additional ingredients?
No, you actually need gluten network to support those extra ingredients.
Is it better than a potato? Or better with both?
Hmmm, that's a matter of taste I think
please make Japanese Milk Bread or Asian Tang Zhong Bread with Breadmaker machine. Thank you.
Is there a video explaining the role of rice flour in your recipe? Thank you.
This segment at 26:57 has the information on rice flour used in this recipe, other than that we have no specific video on the role of rice flour in bread making.
@@NovitaListyaniThank you!
Can the biga be replaced with levain?
Can i replace the milk in the final dough to whipping cream?
That is not a good idea, the fat content will be too high for this recipe. Whipping cream has 36% fat content while milk has around 3.5% of fat content.
Can anyone please tell me how much yeast did she put??
From the video description, there's 1g in the biga, and she projects a roughly 4x increase when the biga is added into the final dough
@Seraphine, oh no! Is THIS now the pole position recipe I use after our previous discussion (I updated the other day 😉)?!? 😂
And what is the filling you used at 30:41?
OUTSTANDING VIDEO as usual! 👍
Edit: The rice flour in my cabinet is from Thailand and it’s ingredients are rice and water. Wondering if this will work, or whether I should run out to Whole Foods and grab some 100% pure white rice flour.
Recipe must be changed from time to time to avoid the banality of bread baking. That was Mungbean Durian paste that you saw in that link. I believe any rice flour will work.
@@NovitaListyani Hi Seraphine,
THIS is THE recipe, as you said. End product came out fantastic. However, there were hiccups and challenges - curious your thoughts:
California temperatures have gone down as much as 20°F since we began this shokupan journey together. So this initial ferment time was 2.5 hours. 😱
Total Dough Weight this time came in at 596 g. 😱
Searched for details about your nonstick coating, but couldn’t find any. Wondering if there is a significant benefit.
Second rise was 2.5 hours - and it didn’t even fill 2/3 of the pan. 😱
Baked on the bottom rack 375°F, convection for 15 minutes, then regular bake for 20 minutes.
Internal Temp was 210ºF
Shockingly, the final product came out great and even touched the top cover fairly nicely.
Wanting to put the recipe into a spreadsheet so I can scale. Which numbers are the changeable variables?
Appreciate all the help!
Alex
How is the yeast only 1 g!! Most of the other recipes 4-5 g for this amount if flour🤔
i think she is in a country with high temperature, so yeast works faster. Also, the longer the fermentation the more flavor(i think....)
Do you know how to make the super soft bread from tours les jours? The one that is shaped like a small baguette, is super pale in color, extremely soft, and filled with milk cream? It’s called strawberry soft or milk soft, of matcha soft. I haven’t figured out how to make it that soft yet. I’ve heard it’s due to a chemical dough improver they use that we don’t have access to as home bakers.
Looking at the bread that you mentioned from Tous Les Jours, we actually have a recipe that makes soft shiropan like that using trehalose.
You can check this video out:
th-cam.com/video/KQhgxDLsIhU/w-d-xo.html
Although it's a shokupan recipe, you could shape it into buns if you'd like.
@@NovitaListyani I was looking at that recipe but wasn’t sure if it was similar. I will give it a try! Thank you!
@@NovitaListyaniI didn’t have any trehalose so looked online for an alternative. I came across a site that said I could use cornstarch instead. So I substituted same amount of cornstarch for the trehalose. It made the texture close to cake. I guess that makes sense because cake flour has cornstarch in it. I shaped them into buns similar to the soft tour les jours. Baked for 12 minutes and the came out soft and white. 😊
Cornstarch can't be used to replace trehalose, as they are fundamentally different. If you don't have trehalose on hand, then it's most likely best to just skip it, instead of using cornstarch.
Seraphim! I love your videos! very educational! My bread game is definitely levelling up, because of you! However, there is something I am very distracted by something your videos... this is going to maybe sound ridiculous, but, with each video, I find myself more consumed. To the point where I freeze frame to try and figure it out! WTF is going on with your background? Are you at the entrance to a bat cave?
I don't mean to be disrespectful. Again, your videos are informative, you have a great personality and I learn a lot! But, dang, girl! I need to know what's going on in that creepy dark cave behind you!
Well, all I can say is keep watching to find out more, just don't be surprised when you see a batmobile ;)
👍👍👍👍👍
I didn’t see when you put in the butter….
11:36
Piergiorgio Giorilli is the Inventor/Developer of the Original Biga
First!
Second!
😍🙏😘🇺🇦
As a chef I have to tell you, you made the biga wrongly
This is not a Biga. Sorry
Why?
@@SimpleSlymanBecause she developed a glutinic net. Biga is supposed to develop as little gluten as possible. So absolutely no kneading
Nonsense comment with no explanation that adds zero value. Thanks. She worked the biga until flour incorporation. What was your point?
@@ccbowers
I wrote Pier Giorgio Giorilli…. Look at your nonsense and dann write please. Thank you
@@robertogovernara You didn't mention him in this comment thread, and again that doesn't explain your assertion. Mentioning another baker doesn't explain anything. What aspect of what she did makes it not a biga and why? The 'why' is the key. That is why "why?" is the first question to your comment. But I suspect you have no good answer and came here just to sound knowledgeable.
Are at the end, are those words? "dann write please"
Nice tip for the rice flour...the main topic of this video.
BUT, on the very peripheral subject of the Biga, There were 2 mistakes.
Never ever knead the Biga nor enbox it hermetically.
You do not want to keep the gaz of the preferment inside the Biga but in the contrarie let them escape!
That why you do not knead at all the Biga and you also do not close hermetically.
Biga do not only addup for the texture and the proofing effect, but also for the flavour!
Any video of an Italian pizza maker about How to make Biga, will show you the very specific look and texture of what a Biga is.
It appears what you did wasn't Biga at all, but it was possibly closer to some kind of Pate fermentée.
I would love if you decide to make a specific video on Biga one day. Cheers