Planning the trawler electrics
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 28 ก.ค. 2024
- In this video I run through my basic plan for the 12V side of the steel trawler's electrics. This includes using the REDARC BCDC1250D (www.redarc.com.au/dual-input-...) DC to DC charger to charge the 12V system from the 24V system and also from a solar panel array that I will be installing on the awning over the back deck of the boat.
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By the way, your almost to 100k which is amazing. I’ve only been on board for a couple years by my I remember when you were at 35-40,000 subs and all your hardwork is paying off. Thank you for all the work you put it to provide content. I know that you could have a lot of these projects done fast if you didn’t have to narrate or explain each step. And I can tell you each of us watching appreciate the time you put in
Thanks mate, you're welcome. :)
Your plan for your power needs seems to be fine and quite simple. This will be a blessing because as of a boat this size, simple is best. I've built a few boats myself and I found an old trick that works a treat when planning the electrical and plumbing. Start off the same way, draw a layout and also do a side profile of your boat and be as accurate as you can with the dimensions. Then add a layer of clear plastic (map talc) over the top and using coloured felt tip pens, trace out your 12v system. Add another layer and do your 24v system (If you have spent anytime in the army and made plans on maps, you'll understand this better). Use a different pen for each system and when you are done, it allows for accurate measuring of conduits and assists in calculating bends, fittings, saddles and all the extras. It basically unclutters the main diagram and gives you a simple overview on what you need and where you can put it. This may work, it may not, its free info. Keep up the good work!
I definitely want to draw up some scale plans of the boat. As you say, having the system diagram is one thing but having the exact distances is important for buying wire and knowing the expected voltage drop along the way.
Done a fair bit of boat repair and worked as a residential elechicken for a few years- your plan sounds fairly solid and I don't see any glaring issues other than making sure that your 24 and 12 volt systems are properly, and absolutely, isolated.
Being the boat's in salt water, I'd also have to say grounding the hull is a wise decision.
(Also, as janky as it sounds, there's a reason we electricians don't use crimps- they tend to loosen over time with thermal expansion- we either use screw-clamps, or just wire-nut the shit out of everything. Wire-nuts handle elastic deformation better than crimps over time.. plus, they're easy AF to modify/expand later on)
Edit: and they do have dielectric-grease filled nuts that are suitable for marine environments.
Totally enjoy following your work. I'll never own a boat larger than a Kayak but will know how to restore one thanks to you.
From my experience as an electrical technician & Ham Radio Operator I have two tips for you to consider... Avoid any CRIMP CONNECTIONS & buy a second DC to DC charger as a spare. Crimp connections fail. Not maybe, they WILL fail. Crimp connectors also collect moisture, they oxidize & corrode & add resistance to your DC circuit. Use solder connections instead, and completely heat shrink them. And since that DC to DC charger is your electrical system hub, if it fails, you're SCREWED. It's simply smart insurance to have a spare hermetically sealed & stowed away. May you never ever need it, but if you do it's an easy exact replacement & you'll get back to port with no worries.
GREAT SERIES, look forward to more.
OH! BTW, get a Ham Radio License! I've personally helped rescue a mariner adrift off of Nova Scotia in a gale via 20 meters ham radio. You sail over the horizon from land you need HF radio. When all else fails, Ham Radio WORKS!
Yes, with something so critical, a spare is almost essential.
I've been in the electronics/electrical game almost 40 yrs and I can confirm it's an excellent decision to separate the AC and DC panels. Keep all the wiring in different conduits and a specific colour.
Also sensible to use DC wherever possible, however shore power will always be AC and some loads, like say a water heater, will be large enough to demand AC. Can I strongly recommend using an Isolation Transformer for the AC. These are highly desirable on all metal boats.
On that .. an inverter with it's switching would already I think be isolated from DC well enough but on the reverse way as you raise a valid point it may perhaps be better off with a 25a smart charger from the AC back to the DC and a double throw switch to use the charger OR the inverter (water vs shore). If you're using more than 25a 100%dc when on shore power you have some issues you need to look into. What's your thoughts on that Phillip?
@@NullaNulla Agree with Vancouver Jet, none of the inverters I'm aware of offer galvanic isolation between the AC and DC sides. There are three broad approaches I would consider.
One is to go full DC boat for all loads, and use the shore power AC to drive a battery charger only. You may be able to find a charger that offers marine spec isolation, but crucially if it ever fails someone would have to be sure to replace like with like. I would still use a separate isolation transformer even in this scenario.
The other is to go the invertor/charger route like a Victon Multiplus. Now you have to use a transformer for isolation. This is a nice smart setup, but the subtle downside of these devices is that on the DC side there is only one connection to the batteries and it's impossible to functionally split the charging and load function. This can be a showstopper when using Lithiums and BMS protection relays.
The third option I went with is to keep the AC and DC systems, AND the charging/load circuits all totally separate. The shore power arrives via an Isolation Transformer and powers some 'shore power only' loads like Air Con or Water Heating and a Battery Charging device that lands on the Charge Bus. Then on the Load Bus I have a separate inverter for AC loads that I want to use at all times, like an Induction cooker, or my large AC crash pump. This approach is a little more expensive, but much easier to accommodate all the electrical design goals.
@@Islandwaterjet what's the issue with sharing only the neutral though if there is only one tie point still to the hull? I would have thought it would be how you use the other (pos/active) and link it that counts.
@@NullaNulla Isolation Transformers perform three distinct roles that depend on the total separation of the source and load sides.
The first function is the obvious one, galvanic isolation of the ground loop to shore in order to prevent electrolysis and stray currents that can kill swimmers.
The second benefit is that they provide inherent shore power reverse polarity protection. If for any reason the live and neutral are swapped it just doesn't matter. This is why you don't want to share the shore neutral with the hull ... it could become live!
The third more subtle reason is the isolation transformer load side neutral is bonded to the metal hull. This provides a rock solid earth path for any AC circuits and ensures reliable operation of the RCD's or Earth Leakage protection devices.
It's my view that Isolation transformers should be mandatory on all metal boats, for the first reason alone. But on all other types GRP or Wood, the second and third reasons also justify them.
@@philipwilkie3239 if the shore goes only to a smart charger than you have no risk of it being an issue and simplifying a lot of things.
Focus on dc and then only invert things like the toaster and microwave. There are 12v dc tvs etc and even fridges of reasonable size then cook with lpg.
Hi Stu, it was pleasure talking to you at Sanctuary Cove International Boat Show. I would suggest adding additional 24V charger to charge only starting batteries (+ anchor winch battery) and leave BCDC1250D to change house batteries. Also, battery monitor (something like Victron Battery Monitor BMV-702) would be nice to have at wheel house. Thank you for great videos!
Hey Yury, nice to meet you too. :) Yes, I'm going to dedicate a third of the solar cells to charging the starter batteries and run the winch off those. Have a battery monitor in the pipeline!
Good for REDARC, if they support you then I'll support them in future
Same here...that was a very nice thing to do.
And I was checking some of their products out...they will be getting orders from me soon!
I hit their website as soon as Stu mentioned them
@@rododonnell9783 Hey Rod, funny how you do that I reckon, I did exactly the same thing but to be fair, I think if they support guys we watch then they deserve my patronage
I wonder if REDARC DC/DC converter has battery charger that is “Temperature compensated” for the optimum float voltage and maximum service life.
And they are Aussie made
I've got a similar Redarc DC-DC charger on the 4WD. It manages the charge to the house battery, isolates the house and crank batteries, and regulates raw solar into the charging system. After 5 years it's never let me down. Great brand. Would buy again in a heartbeat.
Good to hear. :)
Thanks Stu..a plan before wiring a boat is the best way to tackle it I find..
For sure. There has already been so much great advice I'm glad I didn't just dive in and do it. :)
Ill be keen to see the redarc hooked up to the multi voltage system mate..I have one that hooks into my slideon camper and its great 12v to 12v
'better to have a leaking boat than a boat on fire' best sentence ever!
John Thorogood , that depends on how big the fire is or how big the hole.
LoL
Sometimes the comments are as educational as the videos. Thanks for the vids Stu, and thanks for the informative comments folks.
I'm really appreciating all the great comments. :)
His subscribers leave some good ideas, that I now have to read all the comments, as well as watch his Stu's video.
You will putting a great deal of battery weight on those three cantilevered tubes mounted to that aft bulkhead, recommend you think about bracing that shelf from below. The braces could go diagonally to the base of the bulkhead or down to the nearest structural hull member.
Yes, a bit of extra support won't hurt.
Your a fuking GENIUS. I’m learning something I know nothing about. Your an excellent teacher.
Hi stu a lot of conflicting info coming through , I fit out ally boats for a living , my advice would be keep it simple ,I woundnt complicate the system by fitting a battery just for the winch , use a 24 volt winch the cable cost will not be all that great to run to the 24volt system , the 24 volt system will be no problem charging from the alternator (just make sure it has sufficient output and in good condition)
I would also run a fused circuit to the wheel house and use another fuse block for all other lights ,radios sounders etc from there .
Also don’t complicate the wireing by useing relays when you don’t need to the fuse block will handle up to 30 amps per circuit ,
You can download a really good voltage drop app from the blueseas web site called circuit wizard it’s so easy to use just fill in the info and it calculates for you .
Love your videos keep them comeing
John
Thanks John. Yes, I'm totally convinced to go a 24V winch running off the starting batteries now. :)
Fuse panel can handle the current but he'll need relays to switch most loads over 10A...
JuzzyQld
If the switches used are rated for 25 amps and the cable is rated correctly you will not need relays .not many electric components in a boat are rated above about 18 amps ,even the 60 /70 psi water pumps will only draw 18 amps max pressure , there is no point in complicating a 12 volt system by useing relays unnecessarily,
you can also consider 48v for even more efficiency. 12v is sad if you have to use lots of power.
Nice advice, John. In the wheelhouse - that's where the design app and controls from blueseas comes in. It's where the convenience of CB's and power monitoring really needs to be. ....and to Stu..I know that's a pricey option, but it's the prettiest/cleanest one. Hopefully we readers can help out with that cost, but considering all of your effort on that trawler..and the wonderful results so far... you deserve it. Make the wheelhouse cadillac, man! :). BTW, I'm not a marine engineer, but a electrical controls engineer who understands the power distribution gig...where it needs to be simple and brute force, and where it needs to be practical. John's got this down. Go with the force, Stu :)
I literally just got to watch the last video, came back to my subscriptions, and saw this video posted 1 minute ago. Love it!
You’re one of the reasons I don’t need cable. Enjoy your vacation 🤙🏼
I build campervans and 100% agree that dc appliances are the go . Sure mains power gear is cheaper and more variety but if your inverter blows then you have nothing . With dc all you need is batteries and if your batteries die then its easy enough to get another and you still have appliances working . And if you can afford it go lithium batteries in the long term they are cheaper then lead acid .
I do like the simplicity of 12V, and, as you say, drop in a spare 12V battery and you are back in business, even if it is just for a while without charging.
Didn't understand a word about the electrics but thoroughly enjoyed listening to your knowledge
Thanks mate. :)
Hey there Dingo Stu, just want to say I really enjoy your channel. I don't have a boat and have no intention of getting one but your presentations are always really interesting and entertaining as well as educational. Good stuff.
Thanks mate.
Thanks for these videos. Not only learning from your rebuild, but you inspire me to keep working on my boat projects!
I enjoy watching the videos I had a 48foot wheeler sunbridge old wooden boat with twin 671s two four hundred gallon monel tanks it was a headache to refurbish but fun when I was young and able enjoy it then show some fishing vids
That's a fair bit of HP!
Thanks Stu....brilliantly straight forward explanation....especially the bit about the anchor windlass....I've been thinking the same thing for a while now....batteries are so much better now and the truth is that most of the times you're hauling anchor.....the engine is already running to get underway......good work Mate!
If you have any blank slots left in the fuse block, use them to hold emergency fuses for the critical components. (radio, bilge pump etc) It can save you from having to hunt down your spares in an emergency...
Thanks Stu, safe trip to Bundy and maketime for a distillery tour...👍
I love those Lonestar drum winches. I tried one that was crap, should have bit the bullet and bought a Lonestar! They sponsored my favorite ''Wicked Tuna'' TV show guy, Dave Marciono. In the USA its thru Hammer Marine in Texas. I use their chain guard. Not many Americans use drum winches.......But you all are way more inventive then American boat owners (fishermen)
Thanks mate, I'll check them out.
Nice work Redarc. DCDC controller AND 900W of your high quality panels. The redarc gear I have is super high quality. Very happy with it
I freakin love this series!
Looks like a great plan, your planning will make your build much smoother.
Thank you Stu! I really do love this series on the trawler.
Oooo. RedArc. Le fanci.
Keep in mind Stu, chargers for lithium batteries such as tool batteries laptops etc, are extremely finicky on the type of power the receive. Altered sine wave generally won’t work. You need pure sine inverters. Also you need an emergency generator for the beer fridge. Maybe two.
Two back up generators for the beer fridge is the best advice so far. ;)
on your AC install a galvanic isolator unit if you plan to use any type of shore power. I would put your spade fuses in your cabin.
Bloody hell Stu you gotta massive wiring job ahead it'll be satisfying to see you start this from scratch. All the best mate .
Thanks mate. Fortunately a couple of mates have offered to help with this. Should keep the spirits up!
@@DangarMarine With this cold, you sure gona need the spirits. Thought you only liked beer, like me.
That's rad...Redarc...Aussie made and brilliant gear...👍🍻😎...
I have to admit, as a Canadian, I have a lot of respect for Australian manufacturing. You crazy Aussies come up with the coolest stuff and don't give a rats if other countries think you're nuts for doing it!
Gotta haul a bunch of crap out of the Outback? Just put a bunch of trailers together on a rig and call it a train. Muscle cars can't carry enough? Put a truck box on it and call it a ute. Not getting diabetes fast enough? Put chocolate and more chocolate together and call it a TimTam.
Respect.
What a rad comment...Do you have Tim Tams in Canada...😁
@@rooster8039 We do! Bundaberg ginger beer is decidedly harder to find though. 🙁 I quite enjoyed it when I was there. But at least that shoe polish you call vegemite isn't here either. 😋
Good...Have you done the Tim Tam Slam...Vegemite is for champions...🤪...Bundy rum is also good too...(Bundy is slang for Bundaberg)...👍
@@rooster8039 Tim Tam slam: bite off two ends and suck up hot chocolate? I haven't had the pleasure. I didn't know they made rum.
That's something I think is strange about Australia: there's always a short-hand, slang, abbreviation, or acronym for everything out there. You even abbreviate abbreviations! Like really, how hard is it to say BBQ, but no, you have to shorten it to barbie! Lol! 😋
Very nice thinking, Stu. I wish someone had thought out the electrical system on my boat. It's a terrible bird's nest. I want to pull it all out and replace the whole system, but it's all working for the moment, so not priority right now. What an impressive little charging controller Redarc makes. Looking good!
Thanks Tony. It is very easy for wiring to become a birds nest which I guess is why so many planning is required before you start. The trouble with most boats seems to come after the original install as things get added, or things fail and then are fixed with extra wires being run etc.
Think you did it absolutely right with the earthing, seen so much issues with cars and bikes from not using the same earth point so this feels like a no brainer.
I have considered adding the Redarc DC to DC charger to my VW Westfalia Camper setup. This by far is the best simple explanation I have found and has convinced me that it is worth the cost. Thanks.
The only limitation is that it turns out it can't can't the 24V system from the solar, doesn't have a step up transformer, only down.
Fascinating video, you have a great overall grasp of the electrical system. I am sure your loyal subscribers will help fine tune the completed system. Sound like you have a great deal planed for this boat.
Just a thought, a small backup diesel generator could be a lifesaver and get the main engine running if something catastrophic occurred. It could also ensure your separate anchor motor battery or batteries are charged. Yes it would be expensive but out on open waters you want to make sure you know you can start your main engine. Have a look into it and a think about it Stu.
I would definitely want a back up generator all the time if going offshore. Would a petrol generator not be sufficient? Or is the a concern with fuel storage?
@@landlifem5872 just thinking one type of fuel is enough to carry on board, except maybe LPG operation as I am assuming there will be gas on board for cooking.
@@matthewmoses4222
Yeah that's cool, I could see a petrol generator could give trouble with condensation in the fuel if it's not used regularly, and any vapours from the fuel as we all know in a confined space .. but the advantages of course are the purchase price and ease of starting.
You are going over the same ground as I did when wiring my Bass Boat. You know, trolling motor, sonar units, electrical wiring, power anchors, under way lighting. This is a 1986 model, so lots of wires, esp. ground wires from everywhere. Still trying to balance 3-12v batteries, one for starting, and electronics, and two for trolling. I thin like you I need to add a battery just for anchor poles and maybe sonar. Keep up good work and teaching. Bill in West Texas
NOW - you're in my wheelhouse!! Looking over the comments (I didn't wanna sound like a broken record), there are a few really great tips. I'd like to comment on a few things: I believe there are (2) reasons to fuse. 1) To protect the boat from electrical fire (fuse at the battery) 2) to protect a specific device from shorts (or other issues) - fuse at the device (or fuse block).
As for the REDARC products, I'm unfamiliar but it looks like the perfect fit for your project. I can't tell the gauge of wire, but to me, it seems a little light. When doing 12v projects here at our shop, after calculating current draw, we use 8GA, 4GA, sometime 1/0GA wire depending on the load. The wire coming out of the REDARC seems to be 12GA at the most. I'll jump on their site to get the skinny on it's spec's.
As for the others' comments: Go LED lighting when possible (even in gauges if available)and I'd do a 24v winch for the anchor. Someone commented that you'd lose 12v power if the REDARC would die. I don't believe that would be the case since the battery bank and the devices are on the other side of the REDARC. You would lose the ability to CHARGE the 12v system, but not lose power completely. Eventually, yes. Not sure of your timeline on the electrical system, but I would LOVE to send a care package of goodies your way. I have no idea how long something from the US would get to you, but I'd love to help. Let me know.
Mail it now priority, it'll get there in time. Nice idea.
Thanks Scott, appreciate the info. You are right in that I would only lose the ability to charge, the power would still work until the batteries went flat. I will definitely look into replacing all the existing incandescent lighting with LED, definitely a great way to save power. I've got about four weeks to finish the electrics so send me an email to dangarstu@gmail.com if you have something you'd like to send. Any help is always greatly appreciated! :)
Stu, you’ve got a great plan for moving forward with the electrics but there is something you need to consider. Using a single unit combining 12V charger, dc-dc and MPPT for the solar means you are vulnerable to being without charging if it fails. Not sure how long the batteries would last without charging but if you’re a long way out it could be a problem. Having a spare dedicated solar charger might help but I think I’d go with a second duplicate charger unit on your board that you can hook up quickly when needed. Electronics fail and if the charger fails and your 12V bank goes down as well, you can’t even call for help when offshore. If one of your parallel batteries goes short, it’ll drag the other two with it. Add some kind of contingency for charger or battery failure and you’ll be fine well offshore. Keep up the good work and thanks for sharing.
Thanks mate. The single point of failure really is an issue, I'll have to think about the best way to handle that.
I’m glad you have a handle on grounds. They are important for the long term life of your hull. Also important for the life and proper function of your electronics.
Consider using solder link connectors on your 12/24 volt system small wires. On your main battery cables do the same. They have solder and heat shrink built in. It will prevent you so many problems. In a salt water environment the salt in the air will crap in and corrode your connections. You won’t even see the corrosion and will have troubleshoot an invisible enemy.
Make sure your bilge electrics are on a breaker in your wheel house.
Also as a secondary means of removing water in an emergency you can put a few valves in place to bypass seawater and draw engine cooling water from the bilge. That way if your electric bilge fails or is overwhelmed you can add pump capacity with your engine running.
Good tips, you can't have enough ways to get water out of a boat!
Dangar Marine view this on the topic of seacock/bilge bypass www.sailmagazine.com/gear/bilge-bypass
I live in Kansas in the center of the usa. I know nothing about boats or oceans but i love this channel and have learned a lot. Thanks
Well thought out plan. I would make sure the fuse panel is in a location easy to get to once the engine is in place but I'm sure you will plan that out accordingly.
Awesome plan Stu. Its inspired me to finally get the small (30w) solar panel and charger put on my boat (tiny in comparison) along with putting the batteries in parallel. Basically centralize the electrical system.
I Really enjoy your longer vids 👍
Best regards
Frank
From Denmark
Thanks Frank.
when a Macbook is in the charge state the usc c will bump up to 20 volt at about 2.5 amp. awesome project
Thanks mate. :)
If you want back up "clean energy" then I recommend aerogen marine wind turbines. I grew up of grid and my dad runs them. He lives on the coast so cops marine conditions and some extremely strong winds. First one lasted 20 years then he upgraded to a higher output one. Turned out the old one just needed a new rectifier so now it's a back up. I get it that turbines arnt for everyone though. Great video as usual. I hang out for my weekly dangar fix haha.
Clean energy? Does a two stroke GM diesel qualify?
The great thing about wind is that when you don't have sun you often have wind. They work well together.
Another load of useful knowledge I have absorbed (I think ) !.
So timely, thank you Stu, I am starting this job tomorrow on our old trawler. Will definitely check out the Redarc website.
Good luck with your install mate. My head hurts already. ;)
@@DangarMarine Mine too. LOL.
Don’t forget get to install isolation switches!!
The Redarc unit isolates house and starting banks automatically.
@@paulg9314 Still need disconnects so you can work on the system with doing collateral damage.... Also, if you have a problem, you need to be able to bulk turn things off.
Yes I have done two isolation switches one for the motor and one for accessories in My 6.5 mtr boat , all tinned copper wires which were solder ironed and then waterproof heat shrank , never a problem
Cheers Benny
Stu, I have worked on many boats in my lifetime and second the other recommendations to have a "spare" REDARC controller on board with terminals already crimped on hermetically sealed in a heavy duty plastic bag. You want to reduce single point failure modes. I had good success over the years with ring terminal screw type crimp fittings PROVIDED they are crimped with a proper ratcheting crimp tool that only releases when the proper pressure has been achieved. All crimp fittings need to have "inner melt" insulation that you shrink on with a heat gun. The object is to not let corrosion get into the crimp and up into the wire. I was going to suggest using fine stranded tinned marine grade wire until you mentioned it. I think 24VDC winches for both the anchor and deck crane is the way to go. However, if you think the deck crane could be used extensively during salvage then I would suggest switching to hydraulic winches. As to a small generator, if possible stay away from explosive petrol (gasoline here in America), why store two fuels when you already have two huge tanks of diesel fuel. Yes, diesel gen sets are more expensive but safer, last longer, and are more fuel efficient. You could probably pick up a good used one on the internet.
All good advice mate. I agree about petrol not being great on a boat, it's just that I have the compressor and generator already and can't currently afford to replace them, but I do agree diesel would be better.
Good stuff, very interesting. Keep smiling
Stuart, a little off the subject, just got two of your Dangar Marine tee shirts last week. Great quality, a little stretchy so they're very comfortable (I need stretchy). Wore one last weekend to work on the boats...well worth the money. No one at the marina asked about Dangar Marine...am I the only subscriber in Chicago?
Thanks for getting the t-shirts Roger!
Hi Stu. I saw the notification and thought groundhog day, but it was just you throwing in a sneaky vid. Redarc gear looks impressive and real smart. I really like a good neat wiring job so i'm looking forward to that.....woohoo, crimp heaven!! Enjoy the road trip. Stay safe and keep up the good work. 👍
Thanks mate. I'm glad I did this vid as the comments have provided some idea - no to put them into action! :)
Hi Stu the Redarc setup looks like a good bit of kit
Good shit mate your doing one hell of a good job👌
As you said...try to keep as much of your equipment in the 12VDC range where possible...I don't know what is available there but just check out a truck stop...they are usually packed with 12V stuff!
I have many 12VDC devices that work as good or better than AC...also use 12VDC lighting with LED strings & lamps...though you should get the IP65/IP66 rated for the marine setting.
As far as other voltages you can get buck/boost converters that can supply any level you need...and for connections you can use gel-filled connectors that are heat-shrinked with marine glue.
The AC side (separated is a great idea) is a bit easier for the wiring as it goes farther with smaller gauge cabling...though I suggest waterproof cabinetry if there is danger of water spraying on it.
If you were to send me a list of everything you need to power...and the distances involved...I could get a plan up to help you out...just give me a hollar if you need to :)
Thanks mate. I really appreciate the offer. I'm going to get some more detailed plans drawn up soon.
Looking at my comments again I realize you need to keep things compact and cabling short so arranging the hardware your way is very important, I still advise the drawings be set out as in a page of a book, left to right and top to bottom, instrument schematics on separate pages (you might get them supplied with new gear anyway).
Keep up the good work!
G'day Stu, I noticed in your mud map you don't have a fuse (Midi fuse) at the 24V batteries for the Redarc feed, I know you would have most likely picked that up as you were doing the job, but that stood out at me.
Now remember nothing but nothing should leave the pos terminal of a battery without cable protection as close as possible to the battery (the only exception is the starter cable), and in the form of a fuse or circuit breaker. :-D
Hey mate. Yep, I didn't draw all the fuses (or battery switches). I'll do a proper circuit diagram and share it now I've absorbed all the great advice in these comments.
Agree with all your thoughts, but perhaps consider the consequence of the Redarc unit as a single point of failure, i.e. what would you do if the Redarc failed in service? You would lose all 12V power to the instruments. Perhaps install a bypass switch that disconnects the 12V output of the Redarc and connects the 12V loads back to one of your batteries. You would need a SPDT switch rated to the full current of your 12V DC loads (60A?), or maybe a 60A SPDT relay energised from the Redarc 12V output so that no Redarc output reinstates the 12V feed from the battery. A switch would be my preference as the relay coil would become a constant drain (minimal), but 60A switches are much more expensive than 60A relays! Bare in mind that either a switch or relay in the line would also become a single point of failure, so use good quality components.
The REDARC unit is a single point of failure, but only for charging, everything would still work until the batteries went flat.
hahaha. Stu you got me at BC DC mate. I like your plan too :) Enjoy the trip north mate
Thanks Mark. :)
First thumbs up,
6th battery for the barrel winch yes... 900kw of solar??? Nagh mate, go 12-1500 if possible and take all the strain offa that alt.
Certainly done ya home work on the lightening earth... straight onto that Central "Single" earth. So you're going all LED lighting obviously with all that existing wiring.
Some good ideas there :) and yeah I reckon LED is 100% the way to go with most things now especially lighting to save on wiring and consumption :)
That lightning earth .... I'd be curious to see how that would really go if you copped a hit to the exhaust/mast/antenna array/wherever. I get the feeling it's to disippate the power via the water covered hull area but if it cops something not directly tethered to the hull it will still do some damage I reckon.
If you don’t have the windlass motor already, hydraulics there might save a lot of issues. Hydraulics might also provide other crane uses depending on what you want to do with the boat.
Yes, hydraulics certainly are worth looking into.
A 900W Solar system at 12V will generate a maximum current of 75A which is 15A more than the 60A fuse of the Redarc, and 25A / 50% more than the 50A it's rated at . . . love your work mate, keep going strong.
The MPPT in the REDARC operates between 9.0V and 33.0V. The REDARC solar panels on their website produce maximum power at 18V. 900W/18V=50A, 50A is the continuous rating of this REDARC Charger.
Hey mate. Now thinking of splitting the 6 cells as 2 for the 24V starting batteries and 4 for the 12V house batteries.
@@DangarMarine Could be a good move. Making sure the 24V system is always charged to start the motor would be a high priority for me. I'd bet more boats run aground from flat starter batteries than catch fire. :)
Enjoy the videos!!! Just remember that batteries are not free and only have about a 5 year lifespan. So , in the long run it might be cheeper to run heaver cables to the windless than having to deal with the care and feeding of a separate battery up in the bow.
True, the cables are a one-off cost. Good point.
Wow after reading through these comments I never realised how complicated wiring a boat correctly is, sounds like a lot of knowledge to draw on though with these subs that follow your channel Stu good luck,I think I need a holiday too now 😥
My head hurts. ;)
That is an amazing amount of tech in a small box!
I wonder if REDARC unit has battery charger that is “Temperature compensated” for the optimum float voltage and maximum service life.
Hi Stu, firstly check if the DC converter's solar input has MPPT (maximum power point tracking). If not I would suggesting getting a seperate MPPT to sit between your panels and the DC converter. Just make sure the output voltage is suitable.
Secondly I would recommend you use 24vdc around the boat not 12. Almost everything now allows for both. And if there is something particular that really needs 12vdc you are better putting in a small 24/12 DC converter near the appliance. This will save you a bunch of cable and is also kinder to your batteries.
With regards to your winch having the batteries at the front is a good idea. However I would use a 24 or 48v winch and run a small set of trickle charging cables from the engine room as apposed to putting in a seperate PV system.
Finally earthing with at a single point is a good idea. Just make sure you don't oversize any fuses so if you do short to the boat you blow the fuse.
240vac power is only an issue if you are going to use shore power. In which case you need a galvanic isolator. I would avoid using shore power of at all possible.
I'm a power/renewable energy engineer and happy to help with any questions.
Thanks David, I appreciate all your advice. I've bought some cheap CAD software for circuit design and I'm drawing up some more detailed plans now. I can really see the advantages to a pure 24V install, but I think for now I am going to have a dual 12/24V setup and see how it goes. Unfortunately I have too much invested in the 12V side to abandon it now, but it is good to know for the next (likely bigger) boat. :) Also, I'm really thinking of avoiding 240V almost completely. I'm now thinking of splitting my two boards as 12 and 24 rather than DC and AC.
@@DangarMarine you're welcome Stu. If you are reusing all the 12vdc wiring in the boat that makes sense. I agree avoid AC unless you definately need it. You can always get an elcheapo 12-24Vdc/240vac converter onboard and use it as you need.
Use relays for Items like bilge pumps etc. This cuts down the amps going through your wiring from the wheelhouse. So your power feeds to these heavy draw items are at a minimum, act as isolation points. Don't forget to fuse all the input and outputs to the Redarc unit.
I would definitely use clearly labelled relays for all heavy power draws . If that's done only light power draws to the wheelhouse which will be much less likely to play up, and if there is a particular problem it will be easy to locate and override relay if needed.
Interesting stuff, I imagine it’s going to be a job you really enjoy.
"Better to having a leaking boat than a boat that's on fire." Got it!
Great discussion!
Like your work stu almost 100k subs keep up the good work.
And he just clicked over 20 million video views too
The important stuff should have their own circuit buss and/or be individually fused so a loss of one item does not take out everything else on that circuit at the same time. It makes sense to separate your lighting to 2 circuits, one for nav lights etc, one for cabin and deck lights. Same goes for the electronics. One for navigation equipment etc., one for bilge pumps, deck washes (which can double as rudimentary fire hoses), and other ancillary equipment etc..
Yep, I will definitely be putting some thought into the number of circuits and which devices share a circuit.
Great vid! I always enjoy electrical schematics for boats, fascinating!
I used a RV camper's generator and power set up. the 120 power jack ran the anchor left motor. and at sea ran all the power needs and I had over 8,000 watts storage in batteries. the generator ran if needed most of my needs never had an issue in the four years I had the boat.
I would solder every connection I could, mechanically crimp the big connections at the battery. Definitely separating the different currents on different boards is great. Conduit is also the best way. As for the wiring of the motor, I suggest 7 way trailer wire for commercial vehicles. They normally come with 2-10 gauge wires, and 5-12 gauge wires. Should be more than enough for that old Detroit. P.S. I love old Detroit diesels! The old screaming Jimmy's we call'em in the U.S.. Hopefully you slap a new coat of paint on the jewel, and put it in memory of the Green Machine. R.I.P. Love the videos. Keep up the hard work, here comes some more long thought processes. Wiring is always "fun"!
I'm becoming a big an of these Detroit diesels too. I'm definitely going to be painting it once it has been rebuilt. :)
LED lighting. Look for the new LEDs that are matched to sunlight characteristics as these are much more comfortable. Also get dimmable, as winding the wick back down makes them more versatile; often they get warmer (yellower) as they are dimmed which is better at night. You may also desire some red night lighting too. Some LEDs can do multiple colours, so you could have a party 🥳 boat theme as well. 😁
One more step towards the finnish line ! keep the good work going end is in sight !
one thing i can provide as advice is when planning this out.. go up one wire size for things to allow for wire degeneration...
sounds like you've got a solid plan two suggestions 1: a battery monitor 2: check out pacific yacht systems on youtube great wealth of knowledge pertaining to boat electrical systems and yes they do highly recommend firefly batteries and they are not wrong
Yep, got some battery monitoring in the pipeline and today it is raining so I'm binge watching all the PYS videos now. :)
Good work! You may consider running a 24V only system with DC/DC converters where needed.
I ripped out all my wires on my boat and left some of it but re-wiring my boat was the best decision I made. Peace of mind. ALSO when you look at those amperage cabling apps, remember the distance for power is from the battery to the load and BACK to the battery. The full circuit.
Yes, there is good peace of mind in completely rewiring. Excellent point about calculating using the full lenght of the return journey!
Dangar Marine excellent series by the way. I’m digging the Trawler rebuild. Very exciting!!!
Enjoy yosur trip. wrt electricals, - keep it simple. I'd dump the 12V, run everything from 24V. have distribution fuses in cabin. relying on a single bit of electronics, when it goes wrong, and it will, you'll be stuffed. Best wishe
Nice Video... You might want to ask them about the OPERATING TEMP for your unit... I don't think it will last long in the engine bay, but could be wrong.... You may want to mount in the wheel house instead. Cheers and thanks for the video!!
It can operate at up to 80C (175F) and has an over temp warning that shows in the wheelhouse. They also state that it should be mounted as close to the batteries as possible.
Dangar Marine You would know better than I by a long shot if the engine bay on its worst day exceeds that... just thought I would mention it... 175 is pretty darn hot, so I guessing you are good then?? Cheers and keep up the great vids!
I wonder if REDARC DC/DC converter has battery charger that is “Temperature compensated” for the optimum float voltage and maximum service life.
USB-C on a Macbook is what's called Power Delivery (PD), and is 19v-20v. Lenovo makes a 12v DC 65w USB-C charger that has PD and should charge your Macbook. If you have a Macbook Pro the charger that came with it is 85w, so the 65w charger will take a little longer.
The Lenovo part number is 40AK0065WW. I'm using one to charge a Macbook Pro and a Lenovo Thinkpad for our portable ham radio activity. It's also great for charging USB-C phones.
Hi Stu, don't forget we talked about having a electric rust guard protection system on the trawler. It may save alot of money in management of corrosion on the vessel.
Will definitely be looking into it. :)
have a great trip to bundy stu ,brupeg with you on it will be great viewing ,damein and jess are lovely people to watch as well ,will be hanging for this vid and i know it will boost there youtube subscibers which they deserve regards duncan
Are you contemplating radar as well, Stu? Your earth system plans are spot on. A (shortish) mast of some sort (future radar, perhaps) with very thick flexible copper rod to the bottom of the hull, offers a "cone" of protection from lightning strike, too.
Radar isn't on the list of things to get immediately, but I certainly think it is a very valuable piece of equipment to install so I'd like to plan for it.
Re anchor winch Im a skipper at a youdrive charter boat company we have a number of boats in the fleet a couple of them have a separate battery up forward solely for the winch relying on wiring from the battery system at the rear of the vessel to recharge it’s a very unreliable system for recharging. The rest of the fleet supply the anchor winch directly from the start battery so when the anchor winch is in use the engines on thus recharging the battery straight away just a thought worth considering as a option cheers Richo
That does sounds like a good way to go. The starting batteries are more suited to delivering that short burst of high current too.
Solid plan Stu! :)
Thoughts...
*USB Power* -- You're right about the 12 vdc to USB stuff. Readily available. I'd recommend putting in the 12-volt plugs that look like the cigar lighters in your car. If we get a USB D around the bend, you can bet Amazon will be flooded with USB D chargers to plug into cigarette lighter plugs. You can pop onto Amazon right now and pick from a wide variety of USB A and USB C chargers meant to pop into that plug in the dashboard and they're cheap. Everything from laptops to camera gear and more can be powered off USB these days.
*AC Power* -- Have a hard think about the rest of the AC loads. You may be able to nix the whole system. Hair Dryer? Microwave? Blender? Power Tools? Well, you can buy 12 vdc battery chargers for most brands of battery powered power tools. Can you live comfortably without some of those galley conveniences? Shore power charging could be a simple and cheap portable unit like the kind used to charge a car from the wall. No need for an isolation transformer or galvanic isolator anymore either. (I have strong opinions about which of those two I'd fit if I needed them though.) You could use one of the small, inexpensive, portable inverters that you can plug into one of your 12-volt accessory plugs if you need some occasional AC power. It'd save you a heap of money and hassle if you decide you can be comfortable and meet your needs without the fixed AC system.
*Winch* -- If you can find a way to get your hands on suitable cables for the winch, you'll be far happier in the long run if you don't resort to the workaround you talked about. That said, your plan will work. My experience with the approach is that it has more points of failure, maintenance, and ends up being more expensive than it is worth, but if you're on a tight budget and scraping together the bits and bobs you need, the remote battery system will get you going.
*Hydraulics* -- While we're talking about scrounging parts, if you can piece it together on your budget, putting a hydraulic pump on the engine and then hydraulic winches on the anchor windlass and the crane would solve the battery issue and more. That's how the smaller commercial fishing boats are set up around these parts (larger ones having dedicated hydraulic power plants.) I'm betting an industrious guy like you could adapt a hydraulic pot hauler / trap puller to the crane without too much trouble. You might strike gold at a marine salvage.
That's about all that popped into my head. Solid plan. Good work Stu. :)
Thanks for the input Seth. I think I will look into what a hydraulic pump for the GM would cost. Could be super handy and solve a lot of power problems too.
I bought a new inverter for our RV last year and runs super quite. It has a battery switch to switch on to run off my 2 in series marine quality 12v batteries which in series is 24v. We mainly use AC hookup power which for a boat would be shore power off the marina docks where available. With the inverter a trickle charge keeps the 12v batteries charged. With your setup with solar where shore power not available the cells will trickle charge your batteries especially with a good charging weather day. With charging a boat fire is a major concern so a fire retardant auto system would be worth looking into someday like aircraft have. They remove the oxygen in confined spaces which are needed for a fire to spread. Just sharing my rambling thoughts
Hey Tim, a good fire system would be interesting to look into. Bad things can happen...
It may have been mentioned earlier, but I would look at having two fuses for some circuits like lights so a blown fuse only takes half the system out. Having half your lights working while you fix a fuse is better than being plunged into total darkness.
You could set up shore/generator battery charging on a transfer switch. Victron makes highly featured inverter/chargers (multiplus). It will combine power sources (battery, generator) for higher AC output. Their battery monitor is nice too, BMV-712, gives remaining battery as a percentage, and time to depletion. Maybe add another dc-dc charger for the anchor winch?
I've currently got an inverter that came with the boat, but those Victron inverter charger does look very cool, I'll have to look into them. Could be worth the investment.
It might be worth thinking about creating a predisposition for a SCUBA compressor. I suspect that eventually you will want to install a live-aboard type compressor system to reduce the number of cylinders you need to carry for extended trips or salvaging using lifting bags etc.
I would love to have a SCUBA compressor onboard if I could afford it one day.
nice work mate
Hello DangarStu, As a purchaser for a boat builder in northern Washington State, I am very familiar with Blue Sea Systems custom 360 Panels, and I can tell you that they are, by a longshot, the least expensive option for custom marine panels that I know of. The original Blue Sea building in Bellingham WA, burned down last december. It took some months to find another building, and re establish a new manufacturing and testing line for the 360 panels. It took more time for them to receive some long lead time components, and clear the build backlog. Thus, 360 panels were unobtanium for a long time, and I had boats that needed to be delivered. We had to spend 1.5 to 2.5 times the Blue Sea Systems price to have custom panels made. Other items that were manufactured, or warehoused at the Bellingham location were also affected, so it has been painful for the entire marine industry. They are just now getting back to normal lead times for delivery of product. On top of that, they are now a subsidiary of Power Products LLC. along with Ancor, Marinco, BEP, ETC. Blue Sea Systems products have been the industry leader in quality marine electric components, as far as I am concerned. It remains to be seen what happens under the Power Products umbrella. Hopefully good things.
Thanks for a tip on the Redarc products. I just sent a text off to our facility manager. He is the main "new stuff" geek in the company.
Sounds like you have good grasp of the basic, I proffer the segregation of AC from the haul, seems to reduce induction.
You will be more then fine with that anchor set up.
I realise that there will be a size differential, but on my boat I have a 1000W drum winch and 150 meters of rope, 10 meters of chain, and a 6Kg Rocna. I lift and lower this at least 10 times a day when Im fishing. The house battery runs everything except the outboard motor. It is a 700CCA High cycle battery and is only charged from the outboard after the VSR changes over. I have not had any issues with running out of power.