So... I feel like this video should make much clearer that it is almost entirely based on results from Adobe programs. A company that has been incredibly slow to support ARM on Windows, and hasn't done a particularly great job at it. If you look at results from other programs, they are much better. Windows in general and productivity software run excellent on them, and the battery life is much improved. I certainly agree that if you are in Adobe programs 90% of the day, it's too early for Copilot+ machines to make sense. Likewise for gamers. But for many of the rest of us, these machines provide incredible performance in Windows with excellent battery life at a great price.
But...are most "pro" and "semi-pro" photographers not using Adobe? There are reviews including DaVinci, which is native but that has poor performance at the moment and is miles behind Macs for anything more than 30 mins of work.
you point is fair. As someone that used a pc to start out in design and then went to a mac it really depends on what you do. This is the issue with reviews. On yt most people make it about what they do. In the end it is what you do. For example, for gaming (which admittedly is not my thing) and heavy 3d work it would almost be a tough one to use a mac. Yes, it works but you will spend alot of money on a product that you could s-end way less on a pc and get way better results. That said as someone that uses adobe for graphic design I got a grest deal on a new m1 max with 64gb mem for 2299. It works great and could not justify upgrading if I wanted to. It really comes down to what you are using it for and with good solid workflows a sec here and there is not going to justify upgrading or getting one over the other. It all depends on what you do. Most reviews never or earely mention this.
Yeah, I think the proper takeaway from this video is not "Snapdragon sucks," but rather "it ain't ready for primetime just yet." And that's valuable information too.
Let's get this straight (not a rant, not a fanboy): - you only have 2 Snapdragon processor laptops from a single brand, and you somehow compare them with God knows how many Mac configs; - you are not running battery tests; - you somehow assume that Adobe is not constantly losing market share (otherwise, there were 10 other creative apps would be in the mix); - you don't even have the previous versions of these MS devices. You used to be professional. My neighbor can make a more fair comparison 😢
The early comparison for ARM Macs on non native Adobe software vs Intel Macs. This is where the praise for Rosetta 2 comes in. That said, ARM Macs uses emulation at the hardware level.
Thanks for the comprehensive testing 💪 Which power profile did you use on the Surface machines? The "Best performance" profile is necessary to get the most out of these chips. I have a Surface Laptop with X Elite (X1E-80-100) for testing and found "Recommended" limits performance to around 60% of the max potential 😅
That is a great question, and it is something that I would doing the test again on. I'll have an update video on this soon. And thanks for pointing this out! Sadly, most users, especially non tech savvy one are going to exactly what I did and use the default setting.
Great and very thorough analysis. Although it is starting to get a bit old that 99.9% of YT videos cite creative work as the single source of professional use, while it's really one of the least use cases when it comes to business. A CEO who spends his day in mail and spreadsheets is a pro, even if he doesn't use Capture One. Same for the countless other people who basically just run their ERP in a browser window and the coder who types away in VS Code. Mind you, I do understand that you test the software you're familiar with, but the framing feels unnecessary.
Interesting results for C1, didn't really watch the other sections since I don't use any of the other programs. I wish you have tested Davinci Resolve Studio as well as Affinity Photo though... Since I use those instead of Premier or Photoshop.
Super interesting review. I bought the first ARM based Windows PC, the Surface RT. It worked for what I bought it for until only IE browser made it unusable, but watching how Microsoft seemingly didn't want ARM-based machines succeed I've stayed away from Windows on ARM since then. A lot have changed now, but they still don't look like mature products. I really hope that will change, but so far it looks like it will take another generation. I'd like to be surprised though and maybe software updates from Microsoft, Adobe and others can make this generation more competitive.
It is really early for these machines, there will be a lot of updates coming in the next months. I don't think Apple will see this as "stiff" competition, but depending on what you use the computer for and what power plan you have loaded the Qualcomm X12 performs reasonably well, but I am not a creator, more your average power user using it for system administration. There will be updates to software, and I am happy with my big rig and use this laptop to enjoy some time in the sun room or deck. With the premium screen (120Hz) and the excellent support for external screens it has all I need (Laptop 7, 15" X12)
Thank you for this review. I am interested in the new Copilot+ PCs with the ARM base processing systems. Interesting observations for me is that the Razor configuration high performance in many of the test is amazing. For me, based on your information, I will not consider the new ARM based Windows systems. I will wait for the new Intel and AMD and compare at that time for my replacement laptop. Also, in my case Apple products have not been as compatible with software and hardware products compared to Windows. And for business, cre ative and productivity compatibility, Windows systems offer the best options if any computing platform.
I actually just setup a new W11 system around the same time as the video came out and it is possible to still setup without an account via command line, but to your point @4:55 it's unnecessarily difficult and you have to actually disable the wireless antenna in order to have the option show up. I 100% agree that that OOBE is trash.
So basically X Elite with more power consumption, a fan is slightly faster than M3 with low power consumption, and no fan. The whole point of arm chip is power consumption and the X Elite power consumption is similar to low power x86 cpu defeats the purpose
Nothing’s wrong with these SD X Elite, the software needs to catch up, those tested AI & HDR merge tasks need to be updated to use the NPU of the SoC, it’s bad right now I can only assume they’re running CPU only via Prism.
We have to trust that developers will improve and start coding for the NPU--good luck with that. The general advice is do not buy today, wait...and wait...until...?
@@andyH_England I’d not buy or recommend family and friends to buy anything first gen anyway, I definitely would wait for at least 2nd gen, and hopefully the software had caught up by then. But I’m sure that there are still plenty of audiences for these new SD X Elite laptops as not everyone uses laptops to edit photos and videos.
@@Duckstalker1340 Yes, I agree with both takes. Second-gen seems the best choice though for some use cases the X Elite will be great, though relatively expensive...so wait a few months for discounts.
Another well done review. Although I did not plan to buy a Surface, but your tests clearly shows it is a little early to jump in. I feel the style of programming of Adobe and CaptureOne is different, thus the odd results. I think Apple did a good job try to get Adobe work nicely with its products, because they know photographers. Qualcomm does not know as much about the photographers needs, so the workloads could be off. CaptureOne may be more aligned with Qualcomm workload. This means there is a potential for Windows, or Qualcomm to optimize to Adobe. However, I don't know if that requires a new generation of chips or some kind of OS update. I agree with your conclusion, photographers should hold off jumping in, but we should keep an eye on it. More competition is always good for the customers.
I was told they do not work for Creative Cloud members. I assume those users do not have stand-alone licenses and are unlikely to buy older software that may never be made native to ARM. Early reviewers could download, but this was blocked due to subpar performance on ARM.
Creative Cloud App does not give the option to side load at the moment. So I am going by what users have access to. And thank you @andyH_England for the input :)
Love your little your clip , but the fact stands ! The engineers that designed the Apple ARM chips designed these . So eventually you'll see parity or Qualcomm passing the Apple ones. 😅
SSD: Okay, but you can adjust most of them. Samsung 990 Pro M.2 2280 SSD had 7600 read and 6900 write speeds. RAM: Not adjustable, but great speeds. 8440 Mhz/s. CPU: Excellent speeds and battery life. M chip Macbooks are #1, but Snapdragon X Elite chips are #2. GPU: Massive disappointment. This effects gaming and video editing. App compatible: Massive disappointment. Even old printers 🖨 don't synch.
I would like to see the tests of SSD speeds from an upgrade as I understand, Samsung at least throttle transfer speeds on the battery to improve their SOT.
Sure … it was originally designed as a server chip by a collaboration between ex-Apple engineers and ARM with 12 p-cores in a machine with active cooling.
I agree with the conclusion that creators should look at the other options from intel or AMD but you saying even for daily task just doesn't hold up. Almost every reviewer (even those which are critical of QC) are of the same opinion that these are equally good as m3 air for daily usage. Lenovo 7x slim even beats m3 in such situations. In video you have mostly run tests for specific workloads which in comparison to what most people can be considered niche. All in all I just wanted to say that the conclusion must be specific to what was tested.
couple of comments. first I don't see Adobe releasing an ARM version of LRC for windows. Also as you mentioned one thing is a "Native"app yet the apps have not been optimized. Here's the catch 22 in all of this app developers are going to wait and see how many Snapdragon systems actually sell and the flip side is buyers are waiting for more native / optimized apps.
People usually forget past. But reminder - Apple M1 went thru similar issues on Gen1. For Microsoft it's even more complicated as it has to support x86 and ARM at same time. Devs will need time to build and it's already in good pace. If you really want Adobe wait or don't buy this or use their cloud offering.
Do you know how much does and M3 pro cost vs what you pay for one of these X Elite machines? There is people like you out there who compare a Vision Pro to 400$ meta quest
Currently, the MB Pro 14 M3 PRO, the higher model is about $300 more than the Surface Laptop. Lots of deals on Macbooks at the moment. I have seen the MB Air M3 for as low as $800. There are no X Elite laptops close to that price. So, no nothing like comparing a Vision Pro with a Meta Quest, an absolute silly example!
Can’t give them a pass because they are taking peoples money today. Don’t do the massive launch event if the hardware/firmware/software isn’t done. What a disaster.
even the x plus beat the m3 air. only in multhithread which is good. but their gpu is not great, can't wait for nvidia gpu jump in the arm wagon for windows!
M3 has 4 performance cores versus 12 for the X Elite--that is not a shocker! The problem is that in real life, that advantage does not trade 1:1, not even close. So benchmarks, in this case, at the moment are meaningless.
Because you can find one result where the 10 power cores with active cooling can beat the 4 power cores with passive cooling, you can accept the other results blindly? Or did you even watched the video (or do you understand what you saw..?) Even the M3 beated the X Elite in at least 90% of the test.. by the way they needed almost the same amount of power cores what the M1 Ultra had (16 power cores), just to compete the 4 power cores in the basic lineup.. (the 12 is closer to the 16 like to the 4..)
@@TamasKiss-yk4st it's not about power. i'm talking about the fastest. m3 does have the fastest single core, and also have the best power efficiency score among the other chip. but as a whole chip, in benchmark, x elite is faster than the m3
So... I feel like this video should make much clearer that it is almost entirely based on results from Adobe programs. A company that has been incredibly slow to support ARM on Windows, and hasn't done a particularly great job at it. If you look at results from other programs, they are much better. Windows in general and productivity software run excellent on them, and the battery life is much improved. I certainly agree that if you are in Adobe programs 90% of the day, it's too early for Copilot+ machines to make sense. Likewise for gamers. But for many of the rest of us, these machines provide incredible performance in Windows with excellent battery life at a great price.
But...are most "pro" and "semi-pro" photographers not using Adobe? There are reviews including DaVinci, which is native but that has poor performance at the moment and is miles behind Macs for anything more than 30 mins of work.
you point is fair. As someone that used a pc to start out in design and then went to a mac it really depends on what you do. This is the issue with reviews. On yt most people make it about what they do. In the end it is what you do. For example, for gaming (which admittedly is not my thing) and heavy 3d work it would almost be a tough one to use a mac. Yes, it works but you will spend alot of money on a product that you could s-end way less on a pc and get way better results. That said as someone that uses adobe for graphic design I got a grest deal on a new m1 max with 64gb mem for 2299. It works great and could not justify upgrading if I wanted to. It really comes down to what you are using it for and with good solid workflows a sec here and there is not going to justify upgrading or getting one over the other. It all depends on what you do. Most reviews never or earely mention this.
Yeah, I think the proper takeaway from this video is not "Snapdragon sucks," but rather "it ain't ready for primetime just yet." And that's valuable information too.
Let's get this straight (not a rant, not a fanboy): - you only have 2 Snapdragon processor laptops from a single brand, and you somehow compare them with God knows how many Mac configs; - you are not running battery tests; - you somehow assume that Adobe is not constantly losing market share (otherwise, there were 10 other creative apps would be in the mix); - you don't even have the previous versions of these MS devices. You used to be professional. My neighbor can make a more fair comparison 😢
The early comparison for ARM Macs on non native Adobe software vs Intel Macs. This is where the praise for Rosetta 2 comes in. That said, ARM Macs uses emulation at the hardware level.
Love to see your thorough and scientific approach to testing these machines.
Thank you
Thanks a lot for the very professional review!
Thanks for the comprehensive testing 💪
Which power profile did you use on the Surface machines? The "Best performance" profile is necessary to get the most out of these chips.
I have a Surface Laptop with X Elite (X1E-80-100) for testing and found "Recommended" limits performance to around 60% of the max potential 😅
That is a great question, and it is something that I would doing the test again on. I'll have an update video on this soon. And thanks for pointing this out! Sadly, most users, especially non tech savvy one are going to exactly what I did and use the default setting.
Professional review honestly thanks, it would be great if you could make some updates weeks later as they optimize stuff
I'll try to do that, thank you
Another great review Art. Excellent! Keep up the great work man.
Much appreciated!
One of best and honest reviews. Thank you
I appreciate that!
Great and very thorough analysis. Although it is starting to get a bit old that 99.9% of YT videos cite creative work as the single source of professional use, while it's really one of the least use cases when it comes to business. A CEO who spends his day in mail and spreadsheets is a pro, even if he doesn't use Capture One. Same for the countless other people who basically just run their ERP in a browser window and the coder who types away in VS Code. Mind you, I do understand that you test the software you're familiar with, but the framing feels unnecessary.
I hear you and this is a niche channel with niche testing. For this use it is not recommended as of now.
Interesting results for C1, didn't really watch the other sections since I don't use any of the other programs.
I wish you have tested Davinci Resolve Studio as well as Affinity Photo though... Since I use those instead of Premier or Photoshop.
thank you
This is going to help for alot of people.
thank you
Super interesting review. I bought the first ARM based Windows PC, the Surface RT. It worked for what I bought it for until only IE browser made it unusable, but watching how Microsoft seemingly didn't want ARM-based machines succeed I've stayed away from Windows on ARM since then. A lot have changed now, but they still don't look like mature products. I really hope that will change, but so far it looks like it will take another generation. I'd like to be surprised though and maybe software updates from Microsoft, Adobe and others can make this generation more competitive.
I hear you
Would be nice to have these tests on some other workflows, maybe data oriented, not specifically adobe suite
Art is a photographer so he focuses on adobe suite
Thank you @superqaxclub what he said :)
Can expect these tests again when there's native support?
I'm going to try :)
Great content, thanks for putting this together
much appreciated
It is really early for these machines, there will be a lot of updates coming in the next months. I don't think Apple will see this as "stiff" competition, but depending on what you use the computer for and what power plan you have loaded the Qualcomm X12 performs reasonably well, but I am not a creator, more your average power user using it for system administration. There will be updates to software, and I am happy with my big rig and use this laptop to enjoy some time in the sun room or deck. With the premium screen (120Hz) and the excellent support for external screens it has all I need (Laptop 7, 15" X12)
I'm with you!
Thanks
Thank you!
Thank you for this review. I am interested in the new Copilot+ PCs with the ARM base processing systems. Interesting observations for me is that the Razor configuration high performance in many of the test is amazing. For me, based on your information, I will not consider the new ARM based Windows systems. I will wait for the new Intel and AMD and compare at that time for my replacement laptop.
Also, in my case Apple products have not been as compatible with software and hardware products compared to Windows. And for business, cre
ative and productivity compatibility, Windows systems offer the best options if any computing platform.
I hear you :)
I’m gonna bet on lunar lake, all the x86 support and better battery life than meteor lake
I would love to see how this works out, it seems promising so far.
I actually just setup a new W11 system around the same time as the video came out and it is possible to still setup without an account via command line, but to your point @4:55 it's unnecessarily difficult and you have to actually disable the wireless antenna in order to have the option show up. I 100% agree that that OOBE is trash.
Good to know, what command line did you use. I tried the OOBE command line and that just failed.
What would happen if Surface Pro also had the same cup? Thank you.
The number would be closer to the elite with less thermo headroom, meaning that throttle will come faster
Thank you so much for the answer.
So, don't buy if you use Lightroom?
you can, it may be slower now but it will only improve from here
So basically X Elite with more power consumption, a fan is slightly faster than M3 with low power consumption, and no fan.
The whole point of arm chip is power consumption and the X Elite power consumption is similar to low power x86 cpu defeats the purpose
New and updated test coming with somewhat improve results
Nothing’s wrong with these SD X Elite, the software needs to catch up, those tested AI & HDR merge tasks need to be updated to use the NPU of the SoC, it’s bad right now I can only assume they’re running CPU only via Prism.
We have to trust that developers will improve and start coding for the NPU--good luck with that. The general advice is do not buy today, wait...and wait...until...?
@@andyH_England I’d not buy or recommend family and friends to buy anything first gen anyway, I definitely would wait for at least 2nd gen, and hopefully the software had caught up by then. But I’m sure that there are still plenty of audiences for these new SD X Elite laptops as not everyone uses laptops to edit photos and videos.
@@Duckstalker1340 Yes, I agree with both takes. Second-gen seems the best choice though for some use cases the X Elite will be great, though relatively expensive...so wait a few months for discounts.
I hear you
Another well done review. Although I did not plan to buy a Surface, but your tests clearly shows it is a little early to jump in.
I feel the style of programming of Adobe and CaptureOne is different, thus the odd results. I think Apple did a good job try to get Adobe work nicely with its products, because they know photographers. Qualcomm does not know as much about the photographers needs, so the workloads could be off. CaptureOne may be more aligned with Qualcomm workload. This means there is a potential for Windows, or Qualcomm to optimize to Adobe. However, I don't know if that requires a new generation of chips or some kind of OS update. I agree with your conclusion, photographers should hold off jumping in, but we should keep an eye on it. More competition is always good for the customers.
I have a new test coming that shows the results are closer in some aspect. Video should be coming soon :)
I was so mad when my lenovo wasnt compatible with any adobe stuff which is what i use daily 😢
Imagine my shock and then surprise
All the creative cloud apps work just fine, you just need to download them manually since they don't want you to use them.
I was told they do not work for Creative Cloud members. I assume those users do not have stand-alone licenses and are unlikely to buy older software that may never be made native to ARM. Early reviewers could download, but this was blocked due to subpar performance on ARM.
Creative Cloud App does not give the option to side load at the moment. So I am going by what users have access to. And thank you @andyH_England for the input :)
Love your little your clip , but the fact stands !
The engineers that designed the Apple ARM chips designed these .
So eventually you'll see parity or Qualcomm passing the Apple ones. 😅
Thank you!
SSD: Okay, but you can adjust most of them. Samsung 990 Pro M.2 2280 SSD had 7600 read and 6900 write speeds.
RAM: Not adjustable, but great speeds. 8440 Mhz/s.
CPU: Excellent speeds and battery life. M chip Macbooks are #1, but Snapdragon X Elite chips are #2.
GPU: Massive disappointment. This effects gaming and video editing.
App compatible: Massive disappointment. Even old printers 🖨 don't synch.
I would like to see the tests of SSD speeds from an upgrade as I understand, Samsung at least throttle transfer speeds on the battery to improve their SOT.
Yes GPU is meh!
Sure … it was originally designed as a server chip by a collaboration between ex-Apple engineers and ARM with 12 p-cores in a machine with active cooling.
...ok...
i'll take them 2 years to reach where mac app devs are right now
let's see, I would hope
I agree with the conclusion that creators should look at the other options from intel or AMD but you saying even for daily task just doesn't hold up. Almost every reviewer (even those which are critical of QC) are of the same opinion that these are equally good as m3 air for daily usage. Lenovo 7x slim even beats m3 in such situations. In video you have mostly run tests for specific workloads which in comparison to what most people can be considered niche. All in all I just wanted to say that the conclusion must be specific to what was tested.
Ok sure but this channel is niche and I did say that for most other application and general use it would do fine.
@@ArtIsRight you say different at 33:42 though
couple of comments. first I don't see Adobe releasing an ARM version of LRC for windows. Also as you mentioned one thing is a "Native"app yet the apps have not been optimized. Here's the catch 22 in all of this app developers are going to wait and see how many Snapdragon systems actually sell and the flip side is buyers are waiting for more native / optimized apps.
People usually forget past. But reminder - Apple M1 went thru similar issues on Gen1. For Microsoft it's even more complicated as it has to support x86 and ARM at same time. Devs will need time to build and it's already in good pace. If you really want Adobe wait or don't buy this or use their cloud offering.
we'll have to wait and see. There's probably an arm optimized version coming...
People who utilise multicore performance will not go either x elite or m3 they will look at more higher end
Snapdragon does not have a higher chip, so if you are a devotee of X Elite, this is what you will see at the moment.
what @andyH_England said :)
Do you know how much does and M3 pro cost vs what you pay for one of these X Elite machines? There is people like you out there who compare a Vision Pro to 400$ meta quest
Currently, the MB Pro 14 M3 PRO, the higher model is about $300 more than the Surface Laptop. Lots of deals on Macbooks at the moment. I have seen the MB Air M3 for as low as $800. There are no X Elite laptops close to that price. So, no nothing like comparing a Vision Pro with a Meta Quest, an absolute silly example!
Yes I am acutely aware and these machine are more inline with M3 MBP performance and spec wise than M3 Pro SoC, those are in a league of their own.
Can’t give them a pass because they are taking peoples money today. Don’t do the massive launch event if the hardware/firmware/software isn’t done. What a disaster.
I hear you... I'm working on a new test right now that shows improved results. I'll share it soon some are good but others are still just ok
Microsoft works with many OEMs whereas Apple does not. It's not everything you can or should compare. (OOBE)
sure but performance and overall user experience wise on setup is something that any one that uses both can compare
even the x plus beat the m3 air. only in multhithread which is good. but their gpu is not great, can't wait for nvidia gpu jump in the arm wagon for windows!
I think it's because the core counts. 10 Core VS 8 core. If M3 Air has 10 core, the result in multithreaded would be different
M3 has 4 performance cores versus 12 for the X Elite--that is not a shocker! The problem is that in real life, that advantage does not trade 1:1, not even close. So benchmarks, in this case, at the moment are meaningless.
Because you can find one result where the 10 power cores with active cooling can beat the 4 power cores with passive cooling, you can accept the other results blindly? Or did you even watched the video (or do you understand what you saw..?) Even the M3 beated the X Elite in at least 90% of the test.. by the way they needed almost the same amount of power cores what the M1 Ultra had (16 power cores), just to compete the 4 power cores in the basic lineup.. (the 12 is closer to the 16 like to the 4..)
@@TamasKiss-yk4st it's not about power. i'm talking about the fastest. m3 does have the fastest single core, and also have the best power efficiency score among the other chip. but as a whole chip, in benchmark, x elite is faster than the m3
Nvidia would be good