The Mechanics of Character Design - Analyzing the Design of Marvel Puzzle Quest - Extra Credits

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  • เผยแพร่เมื่อ 12 ก.ค. 2024
  • Good character design should successfully capture the fantasy of being a particular character. Even with mechanical constraints on gameplay possibilities, compelling characters are still achievable via techniques like ludonarrative resonance.
    Shoutout to Paige from Demiurge Studios for helping us write this episode! Give Marvel Puzzle Quest a try for free at: d3go.com/extracredits
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ความคิดเห็น • 219

  • @extrahistory
    @extrahistory  5 ปีที่แล้ว +100

    Using Marvel Puzzle Quest as a template, we're analyzing how you can use a limited set of mechanics to design a variety of diverse character experiences. Thanks to Paige from Demiurge Studios for helping us write this episode!

    • @ghostly_fan9829
      @ghostly_fan9829 5 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Awesome love your videos

    • @edwardaucay8597
      @edwardaucay8597 5 ปีที่แล้ว

      You know, this episode would have been better if you guys included Daredevil and Punisher as well :\

    • @lonjohnson5161
      @lonjohnson5161 5 ปีที่แล้ว

      Being unfamiliar with Puzzle Quest, the example didn't work well for me. Near as I can tell, you are saying that Marvel shoved their characters into Bejeweled and gave them special features that made enough sense to use as an example. However, I'm still stuck on how you can fit Marvel into Bejeweled and have it be more than a gimmick.
      Perhaps you might want to attack this topic again someday, but from the other side, that is where it doesn't work. I've noticed in card games like Magic and Hearthstone, there is lore behind the cards, but nobody cares as long as the cards do what they are supposed to do. Likewise, in Toxic Player Quest, I mean League of Legends, you may have natural enemies in the same team of 5 and nobody cares, as long as you do your job (and if you don't, somebody is guaranteed to yell at you). Even in Skyrim, the Dragonborn is obviously a good guy (generically speaking), at least insofar as he is the antidote to the dragon crisis, but on the way, you can become a hero to the people in the form of a Thane, steal for the Thieve's Guild, kill for the Dark Brotherhood and even serve Daedra.

    • @Irobert1115HD
      @Irobert1115HD 5 ปีที่แล้ว

      using reinhard as an example.. and foregtting that his unit was called crusaders but that he is suposed to be german. i call this a nice whoopsie (me is german and i could actualy even gice a nice pack of examples why his unit isnt german).

    • @edwardaucay8597
      @edwardaucay8597 5 ปีที่แล้ว

      IamMe of course they do

  • @chazaqiel2319
    @chazaqiel2319 5 ปีที่แล้ว +45

    This is probably why Magic's color system works so well. It uses colours we naturally associate with certain themes, builds a playstyle that fits these themes, and also design their interactions with each other.
    No wonder Ravnica is considered the best plane in the Magic multiverse

    • @jjthepikazard212
      @jjthepikazard212 5 ปีที่แล้ว

      Yeah. I also think a strength is that every can choose which mechanics/flavor they align with. Like mine is Golgari/Dimir/Orzhov. This is why Khans of Tarkir was cool too (my favorite is Sultai)

  • @BeerByTheNumbers
    @BeerByTheNumbers 5 ปีที่แล้ว +329

    Match 3 Games should win an award for most number of re-skins

    • @theodorereggiardo77
      @theodorereggiardo77 5 ปีที่แล้ว +24

      naw, clicker games won that award

    • @ShouldOfStudiedForTheTest
      @ShouldOfStudiedForTheTest 5 ปีที่แล้ว +4

      Everyone complains about FIFA or COD, but nobody complains about Match 3 or Tetris. ~

    • @NoahRodriguezShow
      @NoahRodriguezShow 5 ปีที่แล้ว +14

      Match 3 Games are like Pinball: there are literally endless permutations of the game you can make when you make smart use of different Themes

    • @patchpen5613
      @patchpen5613 5 ปีที่แล้ว +9

      Did you guys not watch the video? You know, the one about all the actually interesting mechanics that are in an actual match 3 game?

    • @MetalKllaw
      @MetalKllaw 5 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      @@ShouldOfStudiedForTheTest Match 3 and/or tetris usually don't cost 60 bucks

  • @theonlybestful
    @theonlybestful 5 ปีที่แล้ว +154

    I know the depicted game is example is to show what other games do, like you have done previously, but this episode really feels like a commercial for Marvel Puzzle Quest and I found it jarring how often that name was presented and how there wasn't a shred of critique on how the game could do better.

    • @jacmindelan7173
      @jacmindelan7173 5 ปีที่แล้ว +8

      It's not supposed to be a critique, it's an example.

    • @nervaaugustus7089
      @nervaaugustus7089 5 ปีที่แล้ว +21

      @@jacmindelan7173 Regardless, a good explanation includes not only examples where it works, but where it *doesn't* or where it's used improperly, to illustrate common pitfalls of using the technique and how they can be avoided.
      That wasn't done here, and given how circumspect EC videos typically are on matters of game design, that honestly hurts my estimation of this video. I can understand it if they didn't want to come across as biting the hand that's feeding them, but I really hope they revisit this topic again, and address these issues, with different example material if need be.
      Though, it'd improve my opinion of both EC and MPQ's devs/producers if they allow their game to be criticized for its faults. It'd encourage me to have faith in EC's impartiality, and speak well of MPQ's ability to take honest, well-intentioned criticism without seeking restitution or being petty or spiteful, even moreso if they look at the issues EC brings up, and take steps to address them.

    • @j2dragon109
      @j2dragon109 5 ปีที่แล้ว +6

      Chase Reeves
      They don’t always give critique. Also, they didn’t say this was a sponsorship, so if it were they would be breaking the law.

    • @kangourouuu1
      @kangourouuu1 5 ปีที่แล้ว +8

      Late to the party, but the fact that every other example besides MPQ was "dumb-named" was also weird ; like if the simple fact that somebody from the dev team of MPQ was there prevented any other gaming license to be mentionned. And even tho iconography from major games was used, they were never named (that anonymous Overwatch example was telling imo). And Blagon Quest didn't help shake off that impression.

  • @PLScypion
    @PLScypion 5 ปีที่แล้ว +201

    Cooking with Vader simulator when?

    • @louisng114
      @louisng114 5 ปีที่แล้ว +8

      I would rather MARVEL at the possibility and not FORCE it to happen.

    • @michalgrochu
      @michalgrochu 5 ปีที่แล้ว +8

      No idea... but Spiderman will buy the groceries!

    • @Healermain15
      @Healermain15 5 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Cooking Papa, Star Wars edition.

    • @bray2964
      @bray2964 5 ปีที่แล้ว +7

      *breathes*
      Alright dear watchers, first we have to be sure the meat is sterile.
      For this we can use the Force.
      *breathes*
      *Uses the Force to kill every single germ*

    • @jwanikpo
      @jwanikpo 5 ปีที่แล้ว +11

      "I'm afraid that, in your anger, you burnt the cake"
      "NOOOOOOOOO"

  • @AlexC-nj9ob
    @AlexC-nj9ob 5 ปีที่แล้ว +63

    This man just got me to install a connect 3 game. Unbelievable

  • @mene1in
    @mene1in 5 ปีที่แล้ว +62

    Interesting topic, because I've been practicing my development skills on a fighting game with TH-camrs.
    I empathize with the challenge of putting a character's skills and personality into a set of mechanics that feel right for the character.
    I don't like match-3 games, even with Marvel characters, but this video is helping me quite a bit.

    • @maxkalbach2438
      @maxkalbach2438 5 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      The TH-camr fighting game sounds amazing! Can you give some examples of what you've done with it?

    • @amberdawn868
      @amberdawn868 5 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      Which TH-camrs? This idea has me curious

    • @winup9417
      @winup9417 5 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@maxkalbach2438 gamejolt.com/games/StuporTH-camFighter/331924

    • @winup9417
      @winup9417 5 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@amberdawn868 gamejolt.com/games/StuporTH-camFighter/331924

    • @MoguAlly4
      @MoguAlly4 5 ปีที่แล้ว

      Amber Dawn it's on his TH-cam channel
      They are
      Karl Smallwood
      Ninja Sex Party
      Egoraptor
      Jackceptic eye
      That's he ones I remember I am pretty sure there's more than that tho

  • @adamboyd1132
    @adamboyd1132 5 ปีที่แล้ว +37

    There's a lot Marvel Puzzle Quest does that I like with the design. In addition to all having clear colors, the tiles have distinct shapes, making them easier to tell apart... but that's surface level. Going back to the example of the Hulk and hurting his allies with his powerful attack, the damage persists between matches, slowly healing over time, or instantly with consumable items. This means your ability to play isn't gated by fixed energy use, but by how well you can play.
    Also, what this game does with Deadpool's 4th-wall breaking powers? AMAZINGLY FUNNY. Gotta collect those Deadpool Points.

  • @VenseyNess
    @VenseyNess 5 ปีที่แล้ว +48

    I see that beach ball on blagon quest.
    I see you Scott.
    I see you adding that beach ball.

    • @nickjohnsontx
      @nickjohnsontx 5 ปีที่แล้ว

      I couldn’t believe it when I saw it.

  • @trewe0413
    @trewe0413 5 ปีที่แล้ว +21

    Spiderman’s character works incredibly well at delivering pizza

  • @ComicDrake
    @ComicDrake 5 ปีที่แล้ว +5

    I'm a big fan of Marvel Puzzle Quest and each character feeling like their comic counterpart is a big reason for why I like it. Same goes for the tabletop game, DC Deck Builder.

  • @Jarory1
    @Jarory1 5 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    This was actually really insightful. Shameless plugs aside, it really highlights something junior game developers tend to struggle with.

  • @ElGringoCastellano
    @ElGringoCastellano 5 ปีที่แล้ว +123

    I want to play a Spider-Man grocery game!

    • @banananarwhals2016
      @banananarwhals2016 5 ปีที่แล้ว +6

      Web shooting pineapples because you're too lazy.

    • @ahandsomefridge
      @ahandsomefridge 5 ปีที่แล้ว +5

      Probably a lot of silk on the shopping list.

    • @Rick586
      @Rick586 5 ปีที่แล้ว

      Gotta get talcum powder for your costume’s joints.

    • @robertromanul2212
      @robertromanul2212 5 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Grocery man, grocery man, goes to the grocery to do what all humans can

    • @Founguy
      @Founguy 5 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      This looks like a good spot to buy some pizza time ingredients.

  • @luliby2309
    @luliby2309 5 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    "Blagon Quest. Press 'Beach Ball' to start" got me pretty good!
    Also I don't know why everyone is saying that this is basically an ad for Marvel PQ. This doesn't feel any different than any other Extra Credits episode and the analysis was legit.

  • @39ocean
    @39ocean 5 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Well that was an overt advert.

    • @CNash85
      @CNash85 5 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      I bet if he'd used a super popular game as an example (Overwatch, Fortnite, etc.), nobody would be accusing him of this.

  • @ILikedGooglePlus
    @ILikedGooglePlus 5 ปีที่แล้ว +6

    Marvel Puzzel Quest was a really good choice for this episode. This was a really interesting epispde about Marvel Puzzle Quest and how good Marvel Puzzle Quest is and everything Marvel Puzzle Quest gets right (Marvel Puzzle Quest gets everything right). You have really persuaded me to spend all of my money on Marvel Puzzle Quest (and I will spend other people's money on Marvel Puzzle Quest too if I don't have enough money to spend on Marvel Puzzle Quest. Now I shall go and play Marvel Puzzle Quest while watching the latest Marvel movies and buying every available Marvel merchandise, so long as the profits go to Marvel. Marvel Puzzle Quest is my life now. Tonight I shall dream of Marvel Puzzle Quest. Tomorrow I shall go to work to earn money to spend on Marvel Puzzle Quest. The next day shall be nothing but Marvel Puzzle Quest. I live to serve Marvel Puzzle Quest. Forty Marvel Puzzle Quests it has taken me to learn what kind of Marvel Puzzle Quest is hidden beneath Marvel Puzzle Quest. O cruel, needless misunderstanding. O stubborn, self-willed exile from the loving app. Two gin-scented tears are trickling down the sides of my nose. But it is all right, everything is all right, the struggle has finished. I have won the victory over myself. I love Marvel Puzzle Quest.

  • @borg286
    @borg286 5 ปีที่แล้ว +33

    Please dive into Path of Exile currency system.

    • @Cyfrik
      @Cyfrik 5 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      After Extra Credits's loot box trilogy, I don't think I want to see them talk about microtransactions ever again.

    • @AGrumpyPanda
      @AGrumpyPanda 5 ปีที่แล้ว +7

      @@Cyfrik I believe what he's talking about is how there's no 'currency' in PoE, instead you trade various consumable items with in-game mechanical effects.
      Edit: for clarity I mean there's no "gold piece" equivalent where the object's only use is trade value, the items used in PoE trades are generally referred to as currency items among the community.

    • @Cyfrik
      @Cyfrik 5 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@AGrumpyPanda Oh, ok

    • @kevinschultz6091
      @kevinschultz6091 5 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@Cyfrik - yeah, PoE's in-game currency system is actually pretty interesting. It's self-balancing, in that you almost always have something ELSE to do with your currency, rather than hoard or spend it. Thus, there's almost always a reason to have even the basic (copper-equivalent) currency in your inventory, as they're used to (say) build your one-shot healing or damage boost items, or whatever.

  • @andrewbedwell8186
    @andrewbedwell8186 5 ปีที่แล้ว +8

    This reminds me of how Wizards of the Coast created the original Innastad set.

  • @tysonasaurus6392
    @tysonasaurus6392 5 ปีที่แล้ว +12

    Canonically she solves problems using two things, her detective skills and booze. Jk I love Jessica Jones, rip the Netflix series

    • @urahara64360
      @urahara64360 5 ปีที่แล้ว

      Well that's the more popular version of her. Since in comics she was killgraves forced henchman/slave for years and only resistance after some help from the xmen. She also had an actual costume

  • @DragoniteSpam
    @DragoniteSpam 5 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    I feel like this might be a good subject for Design Club, if you guys ever go back to that.

  • @jimmyc.491
    @jimmyc.491 5 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    This reminds me of something in Mario Superstar Baseball that I found interesting -- certain pairs of characters (ex. Mario & Luigi, Donkey Kong and Diddy Kong, etc.) were able to use specific abilities exclusively with each other. It really helped to drive home the connections they still had from their adventures in previous games.

  • @jackshaftoe7241
    @jackshaftoe7241 5 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    You could probably make 'Cooking with Vader' work.
    Just imagine using the force to summon on orange over a glass, then making the constricting gesture to juice it. That is a very Vader style of preparation.

  • @kevingriffith6011
    @kevingriffith6011 5 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    For a good example of this being handled poorly, older League of Legends designs are a fine place to start. They have been working on fixing this issue with a lot of champions, but it's not uncommon to have an extreme dissonance between what a hero looks like and what they do. I haven't played in a while so there's a solid chance they changed him but Mordekaizer, for those of you who aren't familiar, was a huge, armor clad metal reference with a giant mace... who players decided was optimal to play as a squishy mage. Gragas was a large, drunken brawler type who's kit worked best as a long-range poke mage who preferred to avoid fights. The massive, ground slamming minotaur Alistar was most often used as a support. Stereotypical ninja Shen was an extremely durable damage soaking tank character. A lot of these are side-effects of the item system or the random nature of the extremely short release schedule of early heroes (One every month if I remember correctly) but this makes them fine examples of how this can go wrong.

    • @dody0416
      @dody0416 5 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      I agree with everything except your point about Shen. While a tanky ninja might sound like a contradiction, it's obvious that they deliberately designed him that way (especially judging by the fact that they re-designed him, and he's still tanky).
      Of course, I might be biased because he was my favorite character when I still played LoL, but still.

    • @kevingriffith6011
      @kevingriffith6011 5 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@dody0416 It's less that shen wasn't built to be tanky and more that he doesn't resemble his role. That doesn't automatically make his design *bad*, just that if someone has never seen the character before they will be almost entirely surprised by what he does, which can be a bit of a problem if the first experience someone has with him is playing him.

    • @Tigersight0
      @Tigersight0 5 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      This is why I still can't make myself play Sona. She is a musician. The fantasy while playing her would be something like: "I play music to make all sorts of cool magic." The play style that brings to mind is one of constantly using spells, where each one is just a small part, that comes together into more powerful magic. Like playing music.
      What does Sona do in game? She casts a few spells, then doesn't cast anything else until she can poke an enemy, then casts a few more spells. It feels like the polar opposite of a musician who should be playing music and weaving it into magical spells. It incentivizes the player to avoid using her powers, instead of using them constantly, as if playing music.

  • @TenzaBurabura
    @TenzaBurabura 5 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Art in this video is on point!!

  • @WolfiePH
    @WolfiePH 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    This is dead-onbone of the best YT vid i've seen in a while!

  • @copperhamster
    @copperhamster 5 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    HuniePop is best match 3 game. No time limits, only move limits, it's all strategy. Well until you get to one 'part' of the game then it's just move move move as fast as you can. Frenetic, frenzied activity. A major difference from the majority of the game, which (played right) is all about measured, calculated moves and careful attention to detail. Which I always thought resonated well with the game's background.

    • @everdale8920
      @everdale8920 5 ปีที่แล้ว

      I was looking for a Huniepop comment, I was not disappointed.
      I would definitely play a Marvel HuniePop game. I want to date all the superheroes!!

    • @copperhamster
      @copperhamster 5 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@everdale8920 I yolo'd Alpha Mode level 99 on HP. Translation, I played the game without failing a date until it went into the 'special hard' mode, and then did 99 levels of the special hard mode, without ever losing once.
      It's not much of an achievement, certainly not doing some level on half a button press, but it's a thing.
      Funny: The dev has said he never expected people to do better than about level 25 in alpha mode, and thought that would be a really hard challenge (to be honest though once you know what you are doing, it's really not any more difficult to beat Alpha 99 than Alpha 10 or so)

  • @arvidp.247
    @arvidp.247 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    There's some really beautiful Marvel character art here.

  • @afaulconbridge
    @afaulconbridge 5 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    In case anyone is trying Marvel Puzzle Quest, note that (at least when I tried it a few years ago) all purchases are stored client side. So, if your computer dies you loose everything you paid for *and* you can memory edit the game to give you billions of in game currency easily. Character design, great; software design, not so much.

  • @shawnheatherly
    @shawnheatherly 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    Wow, I'm really impressed by how well that Marvel Puzzel Quest sells its characters' abilities and personalities.

  • @XanthIllion
    @XanthIllion 5 ปีที่แล้ว +132

    I think youtube's broken.
    The advert for some marvel game ran for 7 minutes, and the actual video never loaded.

    • @gillesvankralingen66
      @gillesvankralingen66 5 ปีที่แล้ว +14

      came looking for this comment, wasn't disappointed

    • @nichsa8984
      @nichsa8984 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      don't too much appillcation AI learning too much given will solve knowing everything

  • @ShermTank7272
    @ShermTank7272 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    All of these quirks are so interesting. I have a soft spot for clever programming & mechanics, especially if it’s in a somewhat limited space

  • @robbiemoritz5476
    @robbiemoritz5476 5 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Marvel Puzzle quest downloads skyrocket.

  • @dragonbretheren
    @dragonbretheren 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    FFXIV also utilizes a uniform set of boss mechanics to make all bosses feel unique. They accomplish this typically by how the boss uses those mechanics, and occasionally, how the boss' stage, itself, interacts with those mechanics. For example, Leviathan and Sophia both use stage-tilt mechanics, wherein the stage will tilt, and if you're not positioned correctly, you may fall off the stage (which is an instant death). However, the way each boss uses it enforces their character design. Leviathan, the giant sea snake, dives under water. This immediately has the players start looking around in panic for where he might surface. Before emerging, he will blow a large spout of water (accompanied by a localized sound-effect for good measure), cuing the players that he will emerge from that corner, flop onto the raft that the players are using as a combat platform, and tilt the raft in that direction. Sophia, on the other hand, is a deity of balance, and you fight atop her massive scale of good and evil. Periodically, she will declare that the balance is tipping and drop meteors onto each end of her scale, and whichever side gets more meteors will be heavier, thus tipping the scale (and the platform on which the players stand) in that direction. At the root, they are both the same mechanic with mechanically similar tells, but the way they are used create two very different thematic boss experiences.

  • @TheCreepypro
    @TheCreepypro 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    really nice to see this cause feel like back in the day we really understood this but as we got more in the 3d era of games we gradually lost this philosophy on game design that made games so great to begin with and I hope with the resurgence of indies we start to get it back and companies that make triple A games start to remember once again

  • @RobbyVanArsdale
    @RobbyVanArsdale 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    Matching these three tiles really makes you *feel* like Spidermam

  • @user-ji7kn3ul3v
    @user-ji7kn3ul3v 3 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Super smash brothers is really good at doing that with its characters, like the experience of using Kirby to copy or playing with two people when you’re ice climber

  • @bobbluered8984
    @bobbluered8984 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    When David Hueso is doing the animating, you know it's going to be a good episode.

    • @davidhueso
      @davidhueso 5 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Aww thanks a lot !

  • @markguyton2868
    @markguyton2868 5 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    I... don't think a match 3 game was the best way to describe this topic... but sponsors are sponsors and you did a decent job with it.

    • @j2dragon109
      @j2dragon109 5 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      What makes it unsuitable?
      Match-3 games have limited mechanics and MPQ gives a sense of character with them.
      Also their was no mention of sponsorship.

    • @jmontineri
      @jmontineri 5 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      No, a Match 3 game is a perfect example. There is no easy way to legitimately convey character in abstract games like puzzle games, and this video explains how the designers got around that.

  • @mrdeadbird1479
    @mrdeadbird1479 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    A very interesting chapter, and an excellent case study!

  • @coolcat001100
    @coolcat001100 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    I get into Marvel Puzzle Quest just a month ago and now Extra Credits has made a full video on it?
    I feel like fate has just aligned the planets into a nice little pattern for me.

  • @aze94
    @aze94 5 ปีที่แล้ว +11

    I feel that Undertale managed this quite well

    • @johnjekyllson28
      @johnjekyllson28 5 ปีที่แล้ว

      aze94 Yeah, and Smash Bros Ultimate with its adventure mode.

  • @marsupialmole3926
    @marsupialmole3926 5 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    I feel like the limited scope of match-3 games makes it sort of a poor choice for representing the idea you're pushing here. I don't think the idea is by any means wrong or flawed, i just think that you'd be better off pointing out how it works in games that use it better, like fighting games or MOBAs

    • @Overhazard
      @Overhazard 5 ปีที่แล้ว

      No, I think it works. I mean, perhaps it would've been better to begin with an example from a genre where it's more eaisly understood and it's easier to convey personality, then work to this. But Meteos did exactly this with a match-3 system almost 20 years ago.

    • @j2dragon109
      @j2dragon109 5 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      But the limited scope is the point!

  • @Ashen-Crow
    @Ashen-Crow 5 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    I can't stop thinking about how Pokemon had an amazing design language and now is adding new unwanted mechanics every generation

    • @Overhazard
      @Overhazard 5 ปีที่แล้ว

      Hey, I like the new mechanics. I use them all in head-to-head battling too.

  • @thriller2910
    @thriller2910 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    I love you guys!

  • @faffywhosmilesatdeath5953
    @faffywhosmilesatdeath5953 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    1:18
    "I, La Pucelle, vow to be your sword. To protect you no matter what."
    Hate me if can see your keyboard through your tears.

  • @OGNoNameNobody
    @OGNoNameNobody 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    MPQ is a brain-bending example of so many Great and Terrible mechanics both, I cannot properly express this dichotomy, save with one observation:
    Jubilee is in Marvel Puzzle Quest at the four-star rarity tier(next from the top).

  • @Cappocchi
    @Cappocchi 5 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Is this sponsored content from Demiurge?

  • @kiddo6393
    @kiddo6393 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    Hey! Blagon Quest! And the beach ball!

  • @BLasherman
    @BLasherman 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    Love Marvel Puzzle Quest, most fair free to play I've ever seen. No reason to spend money on it, just put in some work. Wish they were all like this. Hint: best 3 star team: Ms. Marvel, Black Panther, Magneto, each has two colors to use , Kamala use Purple and Green, T'challa use Black and Yellow, and Magneto use Blue and Red, you will win and Kamala will keep people healed The green and the black attacks hit the entire enemy team, hopefully wiping them all in one attack, Mageneto is used for single strikes of dangerous enemies (use red before blue if possible, if you play for a while, you will see why)

  • @MrQuestionMarcs
    @MrQuestionMarcs 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    First off, excellent episode, very thought provoking, but I feel like a lot of the topics are dense and I want MORE information. Are there examples or ways in which Ludo-Narrative Resonance is achieved? Are there examples / playbooks / lists / articles / publications of mechanics / affordances that are established (like the japanese Noh masks), or is it more about intuiting those things from playing games and understanding the affordances from the established paragons of different games? What other ways can mechanics achieve resonance with fantasy?

  • @emeraldqueen1994
    @emeraldqueen1994 5 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Don’t think that I missed those Spyro references... 😉 he’s a great example of limited mechanics (charging, fire breath, gliding, hovering / dropping mid flight, and rolling) telling a wide variety of stories with a wide variety of characters... Hunter, the goofy sidekick / lovable dunce... Bianca, the misguided “villain” / abuse victim...... ECT (I used Hunter and Bianca just because they were the first two to come to mind)
    Edit: Look here ➡️ this is Bianca’s story told by A LICENSED MENTAL HEALTH THERAPIST (video one of two) th-cam.com/video/Xm7HPkdztgE/w-d-xo.html (video two out of two) th-cam.com/video/w0LeYk6539M/w-d-xo.html
    Edit two: I know that the sorceress isn’t Bianca’s actual mother... but she’s a female authority figure and mentor / “motherly” influence for Bianca so that’s my reasoning behind the second video, please don’t hate me!!!!!!

  • @XCM666
    @XCM666 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    7:06 That moment when you realize your TV is not connected.

  • @SharowbladyeGaymerPorate
    @SharowbladyeGaymerPorate 5 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    Looks at notifications reads title runs to headset doesn't face plant runs back I'm ready

  • @Nerdnumberone
    @Nerdnumberone 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    I wonder how much one should design around convention. Obviously, you can't change the color scheme of Captain America, Ironman, or Hulk to fit whatever game conventions as their designs predate the concept of video games by at least a decade (Hulk came out in 1962, Pong in 1972), but you can generally set the color scheme of new characters through conventions. But what if you have a reasonably compelling lore reason for a new character to not fit convention? How much do you work into the convention?
    In real life, colored uniforms are often chosen to show group affiliation, for pragmatic reasons (like camouflage), or for style. Different characters might value these reasons differently based on their personality or affiliations, but I could see a lot of times when this would clash with traditional color coding.

  • @PurpleFreezerPage
    @PurpleFreezerPage 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    What an interesting topic

  • @the_kraken6549
    @the_kraken6549 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    In the Cap, Venom, Groot lineup Groot’s mouth can look like his right eye with his actual eyes looking like hair streaks, and for a while I was wondering why Groot looked so angry. (One of the times the lineup is shown is at: 2:59)

  • @brandonmorgan8016
    @brandonmorgan8016 5 ปีที่แล้ว +9

    you shoukd do a video on one hour one life

    • @Blueeyesthewarrior
      @Blueeyesthewarrior 5 ปีที่แล้ว

      brandon morgan That’d be a really cool video. The game is very interesting and it showcases human evolution in a really cool way.

  • @fave7824
    @fave7824 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    Yes!!!! Marvel puzzle quest!!!!!

  • @2headedtasman200
    @2headedtasman200 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    Are you guys ever going to do the Seminal Catastrophe? You said in your seminal tragedy video you might do it.

  • @brandenevans6085
    @brandenevans6085 5 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Do you guys have any more mpq videos ?

  • @TheSmaugBaggins
    @TheSmaugBaggins 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    The power of friendship!

  • @CalebWillden
    @CalebWillden 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    This is awesome! I simply love how they made each character feel unique and represent the narrative using the existing mechanics.

  • @jthespacec
    @jthespacec 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    Did you get "The Mechanic Is The Message" from Brenda Romero's game series? If not, check it out!

  • @kodiharvill
    @kodiharvill 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    This video sold me the game... played for 10 minutes and realized this was just another match 3 game and I'm fucking stupid for thinking otherwise

  • @retsz
    @retsz 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    Since you have the ear of Demi Urge, tell them to FINALLY give us a Havok cover...

  • @cosmicsans67
    @cosmicsans67 5 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Wow this video was really interesting! I think Marvel Puzzle League was a perfect example to showcase this, because of how limited match-3 games are and how creatively it apparently uses this toolset, but it's far from the only game that uses it. You mentioned Overwatch doing it well but another series that does this amazingly is Super Smash Bros, especially the later games. Around the development of Brawl, the lead designer Masahiro Sakurai did a GDC talk about how he chose and designed characters for the game, and made them unique to represent the games there from and the personalities they bring. If anyone reading this is more interested in this, I'd recommend watching RelaxAlax's series "Know Your Moves", where he goes over how each fighter showcases their own personality within the rules of Smash :)

  • @darkroninmarvel
    @darkroninmarvel 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    Yes some appreciation towards heroes for hire!

  • @chompyumyum4615
    @chompyumyum4615 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    Magic the Gathering is another great example of this

  • @Just1Pho
    @Just1Pho 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    The mechanic is the massage. ;)

  • @MrJumanj1
    @MrJumanj1 5 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    David drawings

  • @dylansporrer1198
    @dylansporrer1198 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    Is that Battle Chef Brigade I spy at 0:04?

  • @epg96
    @epg96 5 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Please make video about Studio Ghibli or ComixWave

  • @HxH2011DRA
    @HxH2011DRA 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    Kingpin the GOAT

  • @xylophone897
    @xylophone897 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    I think Magic: the Gathering is another example of a game that does this too.

  • @Brilchan
    @Brilchan 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    Thanks for getting me interested in MPQ played over 300 since I have seen this ep. I love that set in the same universe as the canceled Marvel Avengers Alliance with ISO 8 with I loved but with is a great example how poor decisions with the in-game economy can ruin your game by making it unprofitable MAA was too generous and it was its downfall. MPQ its more focused on cribbing dark Regine storyline and fighting Osborn, Hammer, and dark avengers. I like it but it basically runs on zombie mode right now endlessly replaying the same few missions and PVP with bearly any new content but it's still fun to unwind with it. Its pretty "loot boxy" so if you have problems with those triggers it may not be for you but I play for free and don't feel smothered by Wallet Worriers

  • @NathanTAK
    @NathanTAK 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    Anyone else remember when Extra Credits was good?

  • @eggztr4333
    @eggztr4333 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    Reinhardt really reminds me of Braum.

  • @Dogcho
    @Dogcho 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    You can align mechanics with multiple story lines. Portal 2 proved that's possible.

  • @mewpsy1000
    @mewpsy1000 5 ปีที่แล้ว +5

    You made some good points as to how to make Marvel characters in a puzzle game, but I also think that Marvel characters should not be in a puzzle game like this in the first place. Not because I don't like this type of game, but because Marvel don't fit mechanically in a game like this in the first place. Marvel characters is all about action and how they deal with being a super hero. When I see these characters, I get pumpet and ready to kick ass and do some heroing/villany, not play tetris. Which make me feel like they just did it to have a popular name to sell it better. But then again, if there's a market for it and peoples like this mix, who am I.

    • @Overhazard
      @Overhazard 5 ปีที่แล้ว

      Which is pretty funny considering Puyo Puyo Tetris was released not too long ago, which DOES have a story involving fighting bad guys.

  • @cameoshadowness7757
    @cameoshadowness7757 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    Hmmmm.... Now you make me want to retry it.

  • @mausklick1635
    @mausklick1635 5 ปีที่แล้ว +49

    Now this video is just plain advertisement.

  • @Syllkort
    @Syllkort 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    There's one small inconsistency in common design language between video games that always jumps to my mind: the color associated with poison. In many games it's presented as green, but in many others as purple. I don't know why it bothers me so much, but I kinda wish the world of game design would just choose one of those and stick with it.

    • @Overhazard
      @Overhazard 5 ปีที่แล้ว

      That's a regional thing. From what I can observe, Japanese games, as well as non-Japanese games from people who grew up with Japanese games, have poison as purple. Otherwise, it's green.
      You can see it in how wind is colored too. The Japanese and Japanese-inspired prefer green; otherwise, it's usually yellow or white.

  • @MrBlitzpunk
    @MrBlitzpunk 5 ปีที่แล้ว +24

    Maybe match 3 puzzle was'nt the best example for explaining character design 😓

    • @patchpen5613
      @patchpen5613 5 ปีที่แล้ว +17

      Yes but it was the best example for evoking that character design with a simple and restricted set of mechanics.

    • @mattpluzhnikov519
      @mattpluzhnikov519 5 ปีที่แล้ว

      "The *mechanic* is the message."

    • @Overhazard
      @Overhazard 5 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@patchpen5613 Also one that's far removed from what you'd expect could convey personality in a game. Meteos is a much earlier example that creates personality within a match-3 puzzle game, as it features different civilizations on different planet, each with their own playfield size, gravity, combo potential, scoring capacity, music, skin (as in appearance of the blocks and HUD), and even what color blocks are available and in what quantity. There are more, but they require knowledge of the game's mechanics.
      For instance, Oleana is a planet completely submerged in water, and its people are jellyfish-like creatures that drift around in its oceans. This is reflected in it having a LOT of H2O Meteos (cyan) with varying smaller amounts of Soil (brown), Herb (green), Air (white), and Ice (sky blue) Meteos, and the blocks move sluggishly but with a lot of momentum, as if they're underwater. Darthvega is a rogue superweapon large enough to be classified as its own planet inhabited by a few thousand sinister guys. It has a large number of Iron (purple) and Dark (navy blue) Meteos with minute amounts of a bunch of other types. It's very good at clearing away blocks and has incredibly high garbage block output for the opponent, but its downside is that you're given very little time to clear away blocks before you lose, reflecting the civilization's proclivity for destruction but also for being easily thwarted.
      If it's true that this Marvel game has about 200 playable characters, that's very impressive, as Meteos has so far only maxed out at 40.

  • @michatarkowsky129
    @michatarkowsky129 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    demi-urge, what a greate name LUL

  • @narraator118
    @narraator118 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    So essentially this about squeezing character into a mechanic where it usually wouldn’t fit?

  • @rpamungkas13
    @rpamungkas13 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    Watching tetris 99 popularity I think someone should try hero based matching 3 battle royale. I know iwill

  • @LegoCowManZ
    @LegoCowManZ 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    Any advice for mmorpgs? Especially those with no plot line?

  • @peggyliepmann5248
    @peggyliepmann5248 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    Has Marvel Puzzle Quest stopped introducing new characters with waaaaaaaayyyyyy better abilities and stats than preexisting ones? I'm pretty sure they should be on 16 star characters after what I saw the last time I played. That and the lack of story modes beyond a brief tutorial and random temporary stuff killed my interest.

  • @eh9618
    @eh9618 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    Oh, how i missed extra credits

  • @extrahistory
    @extrahistory  5 ปีที่แล้ว

    Hey folks! Just wanted to be upfront and clear, this episode was not sponsored. If an episode is sponsored, we will always let you know at the beginning and end of the episode and will always state up front that the episode was sponsored.
    Marvel Puzzle Quest is just a game that a few members of the EC crew really enjoy and we were glad to be able to use it to show that you don’t need giant complex fighters, mobas or team-based multiplayer games to do some interesting character designs. Even something with simple mechanics, like a match-3 game, can make the most of their mechanics to deliver some pretty cool character moments!
    Hope this help clears up any of the confusion! - A

  • @thecoolerrats7144
    @thecoolerrats7144 5 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Since you guys have been doing more of the extra history, extra sci-fi, and extra mythology I had almost completely divorced the new guys voice from the original extra credits content, so when he was saying things like “when you make your game” It felt off, and almost disconnected from the rest of extra credits. Like is a continuation of what came before, I just for a moment forgot it was connected to what came before.

  • @gigastrike2
    @gigastrike2 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    Wtf, when the the Legendary card game become Candy Crush?

    • @Roxfox
      @Roxfox 5 ปีที่แล้ว

      The original Puzzle Quest came out five years before Candy Crush, you know.

  • @ale-lp
    @ale-lp 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    I'm trying so hard to take some knowledge out of this 7.5 minutes ad... This is the best I have so far: "even in a simple and boring match 3 you can put a little bit of character presence and unique characteristics by tying some of his skills or characteristics into a small gameplay twist, that might help the game to not being just dumb reskin"...

  • @neonblade8591
    @neonblade8591 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    STRONK

  • @szyburrro
    @szyburrro 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    so how exactly is analysis of mechanics of a given game an advert of this game ?

  • @edwardaucay8597
    @edwardaucay8597 5 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    You know, this episode would have been better if you guys included Daredevil and Punisher as well :\

  • @ckmondaviable
    @ckmondaviable 5 ปีที่แล้ว +13

    Your thumbnail makes me sad! RIP marvel Netflix shows!

    • @couchpotatoe91
      @couchpotatoe91 5 ปีที่แล้ว

      What happened? I rememver watching JJ with a friend...

    • @edwardaucay8597
      @edwardaucay8597 5 ปีที่แล้ว

      M. Vipsanius Agrippa all Marvel Netflix shows have been canceled

    • @Haldrie
      @Haldrie 5 ปีที่แล้ว

      Honestly they were getting worse with each new season anyway to the point I no longer wanted to watch them anymore. Good first seasons (with one exception I'm sure most agree with) but after that things kept going down hill fast in my opinion like they wrote themselves in to a corner and had to quickly tie everything together but lost track of what they were doing.

    • @johnjekyllson28
      @johnjekyllson28 5 ปีที่แล้ว

      Haldrie Daredevil season 3 was freaking incredible and Iron Fist season 2 was way better than season 1.

  • @Radi_vvanker
    @Radi_vvanker 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    I wonder how they choose colours for videos

  • @jameswest6232
    @jameswest6232 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    A good example of mechanics and gameplay resonating would be the final chapter in RDR2.
    SPOILERS
    SPOILERS
    SPOILERS
    SPOILERS
    Arthur, sick and knowing his death is drawing near, begins having a change of heart to his criminal activities. Particularly in the loan sharking quests, Arthur's new outlook gives the player the option of forgiving the debt and even kicking the loan shark out of the gang.

  • @spragon6940
    @spragon6940 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    6:42 does it tell you that blue = knowledge through dialogue or gameplay?
    and blue = knowledge doesn't seem intuitive for me.

    • @SuperDeadzombeh
      @SuperDeadzombeh 5 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      my guess that blue is associated with cool and cool ties in with calm and calm characters tend to be intelligent or knowledgeable

    • @AGrumpyPanda
      @AGrumpyPanda 5 ปีที่แล้ว

      The colour blue has been associated with magic, the nebulous "Intelligence" stat and special ability use for a very, very long time. There's a reason mana bars and their equivalent are almost always blue.