Making Your First Game: Minimum Viable Product - Scope Small, Start Right - Extra Credits
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 27 ม.ค. 2015
- When you're making your first game, we've told you to start small, but that may leave you wondering: just how small should you be planning for? This brings us to the concept of minimum viable product: figuring out exactly which features your game needs to be fun.
Subscribe for new episodes every Wednesday! bit.ly/SubToEC (---More below)
Sponsored by Unity: bit.ly/ECUnity
_______
Get your Extra Credits gear at the store! bit.ly/ExtraStore
Play games with us on Extra Play! bit.ly/WatchEXP
Watch more episodes from this season of Extra Credits! bit.ly/2wvhPeo
Contribute community subtitles to Extra Credits: / timedtext_cs_p. .
Talk to us on Twitter (@ExtraCreditz): bit.ly/ECTweet
Follow us on Facebook: bit.ly/ECFBPage
Get our list of recommended games on Steam: bit.ly/ECCurator
_________
Would you like James to speak at your school or organization? For info, contact us at: contact@extra-credits.net
_________
♪ Intro Music: "Penguin Cap" by CarboHydroM
bit.ly/1eIHTDS
♪ Outro Music: "Translyvania Sound Machine" by Stemage, Chunkstyle
bit.ly/1zFtu9j - เกม
"It needs to be fun before it looks cool"
-Bungie 2002
The Flame Cat! -Truth 2016
And then they made Destiny....
"It needs to look cool before it's fun!" Bungie 2014
The corollary to that is: If it's not fun when it doesn't look cool, it's not going to get much more fun no matter how cool it looks.
Athena yeah just look at cod ww2 it looks cool…
So when i call someone an MVP i am actually calling them a Minimum Viable Product?
Ori J I guess so
pretty much
Roasted
*That... We need to recruit you.*
Lol
As a developer, this is really good advice. You need to figure out if your core mechanics are interesting on their own without all the fluff. If they aren't you need a new idea.
You are a developer? I have an app idea. Its just like facebook(...)
@@rafaelanim8 *hides*
so you have to stop cutting sometime , so how do we determin-
*video starts loading*
my internet is bad at being stable but it knows when to cut
lmao
LOL
Strange how a game designer's ambition can be their greatest asset or their greatest downfall. I've had this happen to me a lot in college; where my scope was just way too big.
That's common across many mediums. Even just writing a story that's too big can be the downfall of a starting novelist.
Remove the 'Viable' And it's EA's business model.
Minimum viable product? it's like the motto of EA
wait, scratch "viable" and we got it
Funniest thing iv saw all day.
Truer now than ever
Yeah welcome to 2017
Your statement is gratified even further by EA's presence today.
Cool Stuff... so for a platformer I'll just need a dot moving and jumping across a surface... then I'm good to start...
and somewhere to fall into... but that is more optional.
Pretty much. Everything else is fluff.
Cool... you guys think I can wrap that up and put it on early access on steam... I mean it can't be worse than what I've seen...
caramida9 Just be carefull! ALso it's hard to get a game on steam, becoaus they have to e if the game reaches the yousers expectations. Otherwise steam would just be flodded with "Comming soon" games.
No, you've made a full game at this point.
Call it art and throw it on Steam Greenlight!
this actually is great advice for ANYTHING, im an artist and i could actually use most these advise when drawing or writing (looking at it from a broad perspective), and thats worth a thumbs up for the video
Figured out what your first game project will be? Here's how to make it manageable! #ExtraCredits
Pedro Gusmão Well...Maybe the reason people say that the old JRPGs are the best is because they are. Not everyone likes a metric crap ton of complexity. people did genuinely enjoy the combat system. The old systems aren't bad just because they aren't your cup of tea.
Pedro Gusmão Actually, there is fun to be had from JRPG-style menu-driven turn-based combat, but it's not the routine combats that are fun, but rather solving the optimisation problem to make routine combats routine, and figuring out strategies that let you beat tough enemies. The trouble is that the incentive system is badly broken - the "reward" for solving the puzzle is for combats to become boring, so the better you are at the game, the less interesting it becomes...
Of course, when the combat system is scaled so that you can't beat an enemy if you're a level too low, and can't be beaten if you're a level too high, then that's just plain bad...
new doesn't mean good. my personal opinion is that the old JRPGs are better than most RPGs nowadways. I may just be an old crumudgin but I have always been a big fan of story and most of the RPGs today seem to drop the ball on that regard.
Pedro Gusmão 1: They should replace JRPG with console-style rpg on the list as that is the actual name of the genre that most refer to when talking about jrpgs.
2: Yes, what they say is 100% grade A nostalgic bullshit, but those simple combat systems worked back in the 90's because there were hardware limitations holding them back from grander battle scenes. Now they can add a lot more because there're no hard limits on the file's size. Square has always been expanding what they can do with the battle mechanics with the Final Fantasy series, each one adding something significant to the formula, and most of them are fine. If you compare that to the Dragon Quest series, it is bare bones in comparison, with almost nothing major added to the formula in the 30 years since the first released, instead focusing on what you can do to change the characters to make the simple system have more depth instead of more complex, like classes, added companions, and lots of grinding.
as a person who is really invested in the RTS scene (also flight sims, lets not go there), I had a feeling it wouldn't be a viable first game XD
I will say - menu-based combat CAN be engaging. Pokemon has proved that. So - a menu based combat with an engaging rock-paper-scissors system (Pokemon elements are really just a far more complex version of that at their core) can be engaging due to the inherent tactical choices.
+DarthRadical that, however, is a mechanic.
If we consider standard menu commands, you have only attack and, just to stay barebones, few or one magic command. Which feels a lot different.
I suppose that was what happened in Dinosaur King, both in the arcade and DS versions. Yes, you could set moves and there was a little bit of strategy in that respect, but the actual combat was genuine rock-paper-scissors.
I disagree. With the definition from the video, the rock-scissors-paper aspect of such a game is a core part of "rules that control the play itself". (Make them just words on the screen "fire" / "water" / "leaf" etc.) Now - more than 1 of each pokemon type & more than 1 move each probably qualify as content.
Even in his example of menu based combat being bad includes multiple foe types.
People really underestimate this system.
A much better example would be the ATB system from the early FFs that force you to quickly navigate menus, or Bravely default that has interesting decisions to make with just attack, brave, and default.
MVP for my game: Tic-Tac-Toe but you can take an opponent's spot by winning a coin flip. Very simple.
That's a good idea :D
TH-cam University very cool!
TH-cam University Woah, that sounds super fun!
that's interesting, at least better than plain tic-tac-toe
Late, But Genius
Basicaly, pretend you are creating a game for Atari?
+Vinicius Correia Just remember you don't need to use Assembly :)
Kek
That is a really good ideology! But, at least try to make the game explain itself rather than expecting the player to read its entire manual to find out this green square is a key, and that green rectangle is a platform!
I know this is months old but i would recommend playing some of Valve's games (particularly the portal games) with the commentary on, also, Thomas Is Alone with commentary, those give a really interesting insight into how those games were designed, they give really cool explanations about how they do certain things knowing where the player is going to be looking in the world, using clever ways to control the player's attention in some aspects. It's a good way to see quality design and how it's done.
Yes, as Atari stopped making games in the 80s. They just resell the same old games over and over now.
Thank, really needed this. I have a tendency to over-complicate things in my head, and not only do I make game designs WAY too complicated for my skill level, but after the last couple episodes I even made making a minimum viable product more complicated than it needed to be XD Thanks EC!
Those HM01 jokes are greatly appreciated. Thank you for this good advice. I'm trying to get a prototype of this game DONE asap so I don't waste time from the start!
*Edit 8 months on:* I finished my prototype! Got hung up on what I didn't know that I didn't know. 😎 After I figured out collision areas better, and started looking into signals for smarter/less buggy coding, things clicked and I finished my project in less than a month. Now I get the fundamentals, since I didn't *know* what to ask the internet for help on!
All I see in the comments:
"waah you bashed Totalbiscuit or something"
"waah you don't like GamerGate"
I'm here for intelligent conversation about game development, not your internet hate-machine gossip. Keep that shit on Twitter.
5:54
+Doran Martell Did you really think prototyping a strategy game would be simple?
vidEOkid12345
No, I do not.
I do belive that my understanding of what would/wouldn't be fun is above the average.
Expecially considering that - at present times - a common misconception of "fun" is associating Guns, Zombies, and Crafting.
+Doran Martell
Looks like we found out why my favorite genre RTS is under-produced.
RIP
Turn based strategy isn't even mentioned
Hooray! Concrete examples FTW!
for the win
I just wanted to thank you guys for putting out this series of videos. Over the last few years, I've been attending college with the hope of eventually making video games, but starting a project all on my own just seemed too much without any prior knowledge. Because you released this series though, I finally have a starting place, somewhere I can actually see and begin work. So thank you guys, for all you do
I just wanted to thank you for this serie as it really allowed me to relax and see things in a simpler way to create my first game. You gained a new suscriber :)
Fighting Game being listed as on the upper end of difficulty to make a fun and engaging Minimum Viable Product.
Divekick's all like "screw that lol!"
Not really, the problem with fighting games is that you can't just have two grey blobs do something when you press one of two buttons, since there is no difference in the actions these samples perform there is nothing you can learn from
i think you are selling dive kick short, it is quite complex to make a 2 button fighting game engaging
Yeah I was kinda surprised as well to see it that high on the list. I'm in computer science as well and one of the possible choices of subjects for this term's project was to make a fighting game : we have less than 2 months to do it and we can pretty much only work on the week ends. We only have to code one character with 6 moves (standing/crouching/jumping punch/kick).
Then again what do I know, I chose something even simpler lmao
Mindgame between players is one of the most complex aspect to be develop, so nope, Divekick actually should've been tested way more times other would be expected, before going on the finished product.
Divekick basically is the minimum viable product for a fighting game. Take away all but one character, or maybe two, so you get an idea of what the differences between characters are. Then look how complex that game actually is, and compare it to a prototype you could throw together in a day or two, and that should give you an idea of the difference in complexity for minimum viable products. Fighting games are about a complex interaction of moves and countermoves, where it is, at a high level, more of a strategy game comparable to an rts than it to an action style game. Creating the depth to allow the formulation of a plan of attack as well as a counter to any possible one that is engaging and balanced is really difficult, and absolutely necessary for the minimum viable fighting game. Not too many other genres need that depth of play as a core aspect.
The art in this episode was really good. I like how you takes things literally in art, like a
"strong one" ... a one with muscles. :)
The art for "This one is a bit tough." made me chuckle a lot. Good on ya'!
you guys deserve way more credit than you get, what you guys do is amazing, you make learning about creating a game interesting and your videos always drag me in
P.S plz make more Extra History videos im really into those
It's 1:43 am and I randomly decided "I'm going to make a game" and here i am.
How's that game going?
This makes a lot of sense even if it's not your first game. Before you start building your game and wasting a lot of time and resource into content on something you think might work, build a minimum viable product first to get an idea how the game will work and whether it's even good in the first place, heck you'll likely even get more ideas better than what you had before to put into your game. As mentioned in the video even if it is a big AAA budget game, having a minimum viable product first will help you realize the potential of the core gameplay mechanics and if say it doesn't work then it most likely would not have worked and you just saved yourself a lot of time and resource from trying to make content for it. However just because it doesn't work doesn't mean it's over, it just means there's something wrong or something not good enough that you need to change/improve and it can even make you realize potential problems with the game that you can avoid or change when developing it (remember the fail faster video and how learning the problems (or the potential of it) and mistakes of your game can help you make a better game).
This might just be one of my, if not the, favorite episode(s) so far.
Thanks guys, I'm in the process of making my first game right now. You're guide on prototyping is awesome, I had all the questions you brought up in the video and now I know how to move forward to make a prototype, thanks you!
I just love how this series started just as my friends and I started making a game :D Thank you for your insight!
The art team's concepts are getting smarter and smarter, well done!
Thank you for creating this video series. I have always been a fan of videogames and I'd love to start creating them.
This series have inspired me to move forward!
It's been a long since I learned that much stuff in such a short duration. Thank you for the video!
Minimum viable product for Portal and Portal 2 are probably the portals, surfaces to shoot portals onto (like a room to just go all freeform), basic physics system, and some way for the player to control the portals (I'm not saying the portal gun because that would be a content piece). That is probably how the core concept got started all the way back when it was just Narbacular Drop and Valve had no idea that development team existed.
The minimum viable product for Portal would be a cubic room top-to-bottom with portalable surfaces and a wide pit separating you and a static portal from the goal door. You control just one portal of the two, with the other one being on your side of the pit. All movement and physics would be part of the rules of the game.
So basically, the designer(s) need to figure out what the absolute core of the game is, and figure out if those elements work well and are enjoyable?
So, a game like Steel Battalion (one of the few mech combat games I really enjoy) would have an MVP that consists of:
- The movement mechanics
- A flat, empty square of terrain
- A basic weapon
- An enemy to shoot (Who could be an enormous cube for all it matters)
Testing the movement and basic combat. It needs to feel good to drive the VT and fight in it. 99% of the game can be boiled down to these elements. If these elements sucked, Steel Battalion would be awful, no matter what else it had.
Do I have the concept?
+Thenextworldwar yup.
List of things I would need to be able to do extremely well to make a game:
- Model
- Animate
- Program
- Write a tolerable story
- Compose music
...well, good luck with all video-game related endeavors, indie devs of the world! I'll be off... doing something else.
If you want to make a game and keep it as simple as possible, you dont even need to model or animate anything!
For exemple, in Unity, you can create objects with only the basic shapes such as cubes, flat surfaces or spheres.
Try making a game with only basic shapes, and add sprites, textures, models or even sounds only afterwards, when you have the base gameplay mechanics established.
Even bigger game developper, such as Playtonic who is developing Yooka Laylee, start by making a basic cube moving around until it feels good. Only after do they add the models and animations to the object.
I am not sure how to help with the other things, but the music thing is a solved problem. Search "[type of music or mood you are looking for] creative commons music".
"Creative commons" means that you are legally allowed to download and use it, as long as you put the composer/musician/band's name in the credits, release your game for free, and say that your game is also creative commons. There's a lot more nuance to it than that, but you don't really need to learn more until you start thinking about money.
Elaine Wang Very interesting. I should take note of this somewhere...
Thanks for these videos, and keep up the good work! I am currently working on my first game, a simple, text-based RPG in Notepad. It will hopefully end up with a total playtime of 3 hours (the goal) after a month or two, and I think it will be good practice for later. Please keep making these videos for those that want to listen, and I'll still be here.
Thanks EC! This miniseries has actually been really helpful. I have been trying to make games for a while, but all of my projects have fallen short. Hopefully I can actually finish something for once.
my first somewhat finished game was a card game a friend made up took about a week to get a working prototype in visual basic.
I never put in the actual card data he made up in. I just made it random values when you loaded it up to test it. still it was pretty minimal yet playable.
also before that when learning C++ i started making a Turn Based Strategy game. it was made of entirely of text characters and ran in command prompt.
all i got done was a working map and movement system. i had a battle system but it was still a separate piece of code.
but learning to do just that was awesome and rewarding in its own way. i still go back to from time to time to see if i can improve the code or add something.
it started at over 4000 lines and i shrunk it down to around 1000 and it does the exact same thing visually... shows a lot of improvement.
These days i keep getting stuck on "the big idea" and its a pain to even look at the IDE, or engine...
starting small again on a side project should help. if i can get past the IDE anxiety....
7:10 - Boy, that escalated quickly!
How haven't I found this channel before!!! Amazing work over there guys
This is really an awesome series. As one who is creating a game in his free time(how little I have of it in any case) this is actually really encouraging. I'm building a text/menu-based RPG for the moment, getting the underlying code right, and afterwards building a GUI(first 2D, then 3D) for it. Your episodes do help me not to get ahead of myself(magic RPG with 1 spell at the moment :-) )
You guys are really awsome this video helped me out a TON.
Goku Norris Same. GL with your game buddy.
My game is at this stage right now, I'm happy to see I'm on the right track! :) I present the prototype to my school's game dev club this Friday and with any luck, they'll back me and we'll work on it for a debut at PAX Prime. If you guys are there this year, please check out the Lake Washington Tech booth!
Lucky :( I wish we had a game dev club. We do have an annual technology fair, though. I've entered the game design category and will be presenting in a few days :D
My school has a game dev club (it better, I'm majoring in game design!), but we never get opportunities like PAX participation :o
Looking forward to hearing how it goes!
@Winter X
How did it go? How did your game do?
@@youtoober2013 he is a millionaire now
Thank you so much. this has been the most important episode i could ever get from you guys. you've definitely helped me solidify my thoughts on what steps to take for my group to get started learning how to make a game.
I've been doing this though not with that name. I've just had a list of priorities and just draw the line at the mechanic (and sometimes related content to give that mechanic something to actually interact with), and just see everything else as icing on the cake. So useful to just grasp the scope, anyway.
has James apologised to totalbiscuit yet?
What for, exactly?
hmm?
TheCookiezPlz
This: www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1skam53
Btw, I know nothing of the topic, and thus am not taking sides or whatnot. Just here to explain arthur's reference.
Why even bring that up unless you want to stir up trouble? What does this have to do with minimum viable product?
I dont think he needs ro apologise just make a statment.
Here is a great example of the power of prototypes: Undertale.
Before Flowey, before Sans, before ANYTHING was developed (well, except for one song the developer had made and reused for... a certain boss fight), the developer Toby Fox made a simple prototype of the combat system. A box, the heart, and a few white "friendlieness pellets" to dodge.
So, instead of Undertale being stuck with the static JRPG turn based combat system of it's inspiration (Earthbound and the Mother series), it's bullet hell gameplay was both engaging, and could make every single encounter truly feel unique.
Probably one of the best episodes so far.
Please make a separate playlist for this topic so there is an option to save it and re watch it whenever the chance of necessity appears itself. Also thank you SO much for the channel! In my country there isn't a lot we have on this topic and games are usually pursued as a primitive time consumer rather than new form of conceptual engagement with very little limitations to it's use.
Hi, I've just translated this episode to Spanish.
How can I send you the subtitles?
Thanks 😘😘
I like how totalbiscuit spelled extracreditz wrong, and attributed the whole team to the actions of James
The last couple videos really inspired me set the scope and workflow during the last global game jam. It was only the second game I ever made/help make and it was in a team of 4 so I didn't do most of the programming or asset making, but I somehow fell into the roll of team lead/lead developer and my teammates were impressed on how I balanced feature implementation and overall scope of the game so it never got out of hand during the 48 hours, in which I can't help but thank you guys
I do love translating these lessons into how to be a better novelist. Cuz that's what I do. This is a really tough question for writers: how to engage a reader fast and keep them hooked. The mechanics are really in the characters, and opening scene. For a high fantasy novelist, the world you create will be a hook, but it's very difficult to open with that. This is actually really good advice even translated. "Don't have too many mechanics because you won't know what's working" becomes "know what feature about your character is the one that makes a reader want to know more." Thanks EC!
A top down shooter can be easy to make if you don't add lots of extra code or if you just add a player and enemy mechanic with simple pixel art
Could you make an episode on point and click adventure games?
I keep coming back to your videos and finding new useful information each time! I'm so grateful for your videos. Do you have a video on choosing appropriate engines and some suggestions on what engines to go for based on the game?
as a budding game designer this series is PERFECT. Seriously, all the things that these guys have said so far is PRECISELY all the things that I ran into when trying to make games. Should have watched this years ago T-T
My first prototype was one level with a block jumping and I turned that into a challenging platformer with 3 levels
most viable product is da real MVP ;)
+The Gaming Questers minimum*
Oh I get it! That's funny M8!
GET OUT!!! hahaha
Well... this episode brought so precious lessons to me... Thanks Extra Credits!!
You guys always help me to moving forward. Greatly appreciated.
First of all, sry for posting an oftopic comment but i felt this had to be said here...
Ok, ive been through the comment section a lot and i have noticed that there is a lot of talk about what James said about TB and Gamergate and seriously - cut it out. This channel is more about the technicality of gaming(expecialy this 3 or 4 parter, wherever it goes) and rarely about politics. Even if it is about politics the team tries to be objective about as many topics as possible and very rarely do they go on to complain or rant about a given event. If james feels he has to do a statement he will. If his statement was based on misinformation then so be it the Interwebs can do that as well, if its from malcontent for TB then so be it james has the right to his opinion. Gamergate imo is stupid and outdated and as EC themselves often say- our medium is evolving. And quite frankly so should we. I've been watching both EC and TB long enough to know that both channels are beeing run by good people who care for this medium. I say just let it go and go on with your lives. Theres no need to stick to every word that spawns controversy of any sort. Because the most common case is that the community turns little sparks like this into big fires that take months to kill. Just enjoy your games, enjoy both channels and whatever both sides have to offer you and ejoy life.
P.S. I know EC talks about more than just the technicalities in gaming and game design but that is the portion of their content that i enjoy the most
Say, you seem like you know a reasonable bit of this, unlike the rest of the commenters. What exactly sparked this controversy? I just keep hearing poorly-worded metaphor when people try to explain it.
***** idk, some panel james was at
James loves gaming and im not the one to play the devils advocate here but judging by the way he talked about it I would say that he had nearly no idea what he was talking about. The thing is that he hasn't even been following up on the whole gamergate thing and simply tried to give a worthwhile answer. Im not justifying what he said about TB um just being objective about it. I love both channels and I would like this to gloss over as quickly as possible because these are the type of things that hold the medium back. I realy hope they get over it because i can just see the next gaming news report on fox talking about how "big names in gaming at eachothers throats...this is the results of violent games...save the children" etc. etc. etc.
Ivo Gerginov This is probably why we haven't seen an EC ep on GG, and this was basically an comment he made offhand that spiraled out of control. Honestly, this whole thing is NOT worth the ink.
0:51 I don't feel so good mr designer...
I get excited just by watching these videos. For my entire life I've been really passionate about video games, and I've always wanted to make a game. And now I'm finally going to do it!
This will be something I send along to some of my mates!
Keep being the best EC!
Sadly most of the game concepts I have that I want to make a reality are RTS...generally games similar to Dungeon Keeper in certain mechanics, but I also have a few other ideas on the easier scale and I certainly wasn't thinking of the dream game ideas to be my starting point for the reasons given in an earlier vid.
I'm 1 year late to this video but even Splatoon seems to gone through the same treatment. With blocks of tofu shooting paint on surfaces and showing off paint splattering on surfaces, which the latter is something that continues to baffle me as a beginner in terms of pulling it off. Any idea how they made accumulated splattering work?
This video was really helpful for me! I'm actually making a first-person 1 vs. team strategy game about an evil AI in SPACE, but focusing on the core mechanics first really helped me find a good starting point!
Thanks! This really helped me come up with a more reasonable way to make a simple prototype. You guys do wonders!
Like in home building, first make fundaments.
networking/multiplayer is easy... if you already have a solid understanding of OOP and Socket programming and c++.... er, nvm, networking hard
"Cut & Cut & Cut" and those three HM01-Discs... made my day! :D
And another great video full of tips that I wish I knew 10 years ago! Great job!
Am I the only person who actually like JRPG combat systems
you're not alone. it's my favorite genre, but we've had a lot of weak entries in the past few years.
I do enjoy them as well, though weak mechanics are something that's kept me away from them for a while. The most recent one I really enjoyed was Radiant Historia, and that being because they married an enjoyable plot with very compelling mechanics (I haven't played Bravely Default though that seemed to get a positive reaction).
I am however excited for the near future of JRPG's with things like KH3 and FFXV, though they are more action-JRPGs than the menu-based JRPGs we're usually talking about.
Not at all. I know a great number of people who enjoy the combat in JRPG's.
Javetts
More like last decade :(
Adventure's Infinity Give Persona 3 FES, Persona 4 (original or Golden), and Xenoblade Chronicles a shot. The former 2 are still traditional turn-based RPGs with the latter falling in some odd (but great) mix of ATB and an MMORPG engine (like Final Fantasy XII, but more refined). Also, I feel these 3 are standout titles because the story affected the gameplay as much or as little as you choose. For the former 2, Social Links increase your Persona capabilities, making your battle capabilities better. Persona 4's party members also get more versatile in battle the higher their Social Links with the Player Character too. In Xenoblade, the affinity system is amazing. The better your "friendship values", so to speak, are with someone, the better you perform together in battle, and there's a plethora of ways to raise affinity in this game. I'm sure Person 3 is on PSN now, Persona 4...unless you have a Vita, good luck trying to find a reasonably priced PS2 copy, and Xenoblade...just wait until April, it'll be out on the "new" 3DS then.
Minecraft started from block placing simulator with 1 kind of block, that you can break and place. That's to much for first game.
Well, it wasn't his first game...
Król Cieni That actually isn't. The only problem with it is that you need to make a 3D engine for that...
You don't need to make one, you can just download a pre-built 3d game engine like Unity.
Hey, guys! I just wanted to tell the Extra Credits team that I love your show! I share a lot of your opinions, but I was never able to adequately elocute my subjective impulses. You guys give me the vocabulary I need to deconstruct the games that I play. I also am an amateur programmer and writer, and your current "Making Your First Game" series as well as Design Club have helped me greatly. Keep up the good work!
Thanks for this video, this series is amazingly helpful for us aspiring game developers :)
In fact, I've just built my first MVP for a simple game, and my family actually had a good time playing it, it felt really good.
Thanks for you guys advice and for putting time into making this :)
Hahaha I've already taken on a western rpg... granted, it's a roguelike, but still... wish me luck!
so, what i took from this video is something briefly mentioned in another video. Mechanics over content.
Not really mechanics over content. But i think it is mechanics first content decond. Doesnt mean your game would be better off without content but that you have to build the content using the mechanics not the other way around.
A better phrase would have been *prioritize mechanics over content* but i was just quoting what they had said in a previous video (that has left my mind)
Its more, learn how to make a solid mechanic in a short span of time. In game design content does come second, but if you want a good game then you NEED to marry the two. Some of best gaming moments are when the two are married well, like the escape sequence in Metroid, or the final boss in FF6 and Earthbound.
6:34 Hahaha thank you for alerting once again, i had already forgotten that and was thinking in colors and textures.
Thanks for the video. I've been working on a game for a long time on and off. Every time I start it back up after leaving it for a bit I give myself the goal of simplifying what I already did, but I tend to get carried away very quickly. I aim to finish my game, and I think this video gives me a good idea of how to do that.
That thumbnail is the cutest thing.
What kind of software should I use to create my first game? I have a macbook pro. Is there anything on my device that I can use to start building a game? I'm lost.
+Coley Moles Check out Unity. It's pretty simple and has a lot of resources and tutorials to help you make a simple game. This is a good starting project to learn how to use the engine: unity3d.com/learn/tutorials/projects/space-shooter-tutorial
Thank you for your videos! Breaking down tasks and creating a raw, simple prototype with blocks and basic movements and rudimentary hazards has made beginning so much more simpler! Who needs art! at least at the start anyway.....
I've started a "How to program games" and I'm adding related links of Extra Credit to my comments. Love your work!
Do NOT try to make a science based dragon MMO. I repeat: ABSOLUTELY DO NOT try to!
I'm not doing it because you told me, I'm not doing it because I don't want to. :P
how on earth does dragons and science go together!
The Defalt Would you wanna fight a Dragon that breathed Mercury?
LOL YEAH!
What is wrong with the idea of making a science based dragon mmo? Robot dragons sound awesome
Tells people to not do RPGs by yourself one of the best RPGs gets made by one guy
Undertale is actually an excellent example of this principle at work. Toby originally just made the battle system, the minimum viable product. When this was found to be engaging he made a more complete demo, when this sparked interest he made a full game.
It's also worth noting that undertale abandons pretty much everything expected from the genre, including most of the things which make them such colossal production efforts:
-It's short: ~6 hours vs the 40+ of most JRPGs.
-No complex leveling and equipment systems.
-Simple production values, besides the music which is Toby's specialty.
-Small Map.
The result is a game focusing on a single core engagement rather than huge scope. Which is exactly what this video is encouraging. Yes the story and jokes are wonderful, but they wouldn't have worked if the basic combat wasn't fun.
In an interview with game informer Toby said something to effect of "The one thing I learned from my time messing with RPG maker is to limit scope. Most people set out to make an 80 hour final fantasy epic, which has never been achieved by a single person. I aimed for around 2-3 hours with undertale"
He ended up making around 6 hours, resulting in the game being a year behind schedule. He probably did the biggest scope he could without it ballooning out of control.
As for Undertale, the original Kickstarter listed a team of _six_ people, and generally Temmie Chang is often talked about as a co-creator, for doing so much of the artwork. Stardew Valley on the other hand, does appear to have been made entirely by one person? Stardew Valley is the real exception to the scope discussion because... jeez you can do all kinds of stuff in that game, but it also took YEARS for one person to develop.
Thank the gods the lead me to this playlist! Exactly what I'm looking for.
Yet again, another fantastic video!
Minecraft was a perfect example of this!
Look at some footage of the 0.0.0 version of the game and tell me that this is NOT an example of MVP
14. 4D Platformer (i.e. Miegakure)
I would just like to thank you guys for these wonderful videos. Gave me bunch of ideas and hopefully I will soon manage to create my first serious game :)
Thank you guys so much for these awesome videos! They help so much with my degree and private project, I can't thank you enough!!
So what I got out of this is:
Practice by making Atari Games.
How would you rank turn-based strategy games (like FFT or Disgaea?) in terms of difficulty
I imagine that those wouldn't be too bad to make a minimum viable product for, just a dot that can move across a grid and execute a basic attack against another dot.
I'd say those examples are Turb based RPG's not strategy games. Turn Based Strategy invoques something more akin to Civilization, Battle Isle and the such
I think perhaps on the level between 2D and 3D platformer, since you don't have much to do in realtime which makes coding just way easier. It will need a sophisticated AI though.
Art Murder
Mechanically speaking, they are very similar from the outset, the big difference being one is usually side A vs side B without a movement mechanic while the other introduces traversal across a plane (or grid, if you will). Obviously they spiral into completely different games, especially when you add the content.
When you think about it, a game like Fire Emblem would probably be one above or below a fighting game. you have tactical consideration to take into which is a step or two above fighting games. Chess aside.
Ive been thinking of these more elaborate games where you experience it to be attached to the character and honestly this helps me scope down to smaller projects i have thought about as dumb ideas like a pencil museum. this is going to be a fun fun ride.
Great video as always! Great work!
EA: "WHAT?!? The content unnecesary?!?!? But that's the best part D:!!! The more content, more fun to be had from our trusty consumers by paying us "best value"!!!! And it doesn't matter how broken or bad designed is that content, you already paid for it anyways.... Don't listen to this guy programmers, if you wanna learn something work for us (free of charge.... or salary) and you'll be doing b̶r̶o̶k̶e̶n̶ ̶s̶h̶i̶e̶t̶ great games in no time :D!!!"
They're not saying you shouldn't put content in your game that's not absolutely necessary. They're saying you should make a prototype with the absolute minimum first, test how that works, then build on that.
Art Murder Not every criticism of a joke results from not understanding that there is a joke or what the joke is. If you're going to make a joke about how some stereotyped other would react to a statement, and you fundamentally misunderstand that statement and your joke only exists based on that failure, that is a problem with the joke, and pointing it out is completely different from complaining about the ridiculous elements of a joke that actually works.
Rowan Evans Man, you put way more effort into justifying my criticism than I could ever be bothered to do. Thanks. :P
The real... MVP...
I love this series I'm designing products right now and the concept of minimum viable product and starting small is so helpful. It's easy to get caught up in features but if the object is not completing it's primary function it's not good.
I'm starting a course soon which will entail creating a game so really glad I stumbled across these videos thanks :P