The best part of this, is that both are using their actual arguments that they use in the game. Like Kreia saying Batman saving Gotham makes Gotham weaker because they don't grow strong from solving their own problems. Kreia pointing out the difference between using fear and inspiring true influence and loyalty.
Maybe that's the reason why crime in Gotham became more prominent and bolder before Terry McGinnis became the next Batman; Gotham was simply too weak because they constantly relied on Batman for decades to deal with Gotham's problems. So, when Bruce Wayne became too old to keep going on as Batman, the criminals had nothing more to fear from the Dark Knight once Bruce hung up the cape and cowl, and the people of Gotham were simply too weak or too inept to try and solve the problems of crime and corruption on their own without Batman.
You can only do so much before the masses and the people rise up and revolt. Fear may be a deterrent but it’s only temporary and it will only go so far before it becomes ineffective
@@liamdacre1818if it's uncontrolled. The the citizens loved Batman. You're looking at things from an extremist perspective that would be more suited to a dictator. In terms of ruling, you'd be correct, hence, why I promote wisdom, compassion and then, strength and in that order.
It think there’s one thing they both missed. Yes Batman may be robbing Gotham of the chance to grow, evolve and protect itself. But people are afraid, some even conditioned to be that way. People need a beacon to inspire them and eventually they will believe and come out of hiding and fight. All you need was 1 match to light the fire and Batman is that match.
What I loved about The Dark Knight Rises film is that the people of Gotham, who were inspired by Batman, fought Bane until Batman came in the last minute to help defeat the brute.
I think that when you've grown accustomed to corruption and evil, especially the kind that permeates throughout Gotham on a daily basis, it's hard for the common people to gain any incentive to try and change things for the better. Most people are too scared to stand up because all too often their voices go unheard or are drowned out in the chaos. Batman may stagnate progress to a degree but he's a force for justice and his existence proves that there are those who are willing to bring an end to suffering. I guess the question is, are people willing to sacrifice their own agency in exchange for an alternative, that while flawed, will do everything within their power to ensure a better tomorrow comes to fruition?
Batman was once presented with a choice once, between the world he lived in and an ideal world where the good guys always won and his parents still lived. The only question Bruce asked is if Dick Grayson (the first Robin) was a better man in that world than in his. The answer was no because despite the shortcomings of his world, Bruce's version of Dick was just as much of a hero as the idealized version. It wasn't that Dick was better in his world. It's just that he wouldn't be better in the ideal world. He was already the ideal Dick Grayson. That proved to Batman that his world was worth keeping. It proved that his world could one day become that ideal world on its own because of people like Dick who he helped raise.
It's surprising Kreia didn't point out how Batman perpetuates the cycle of violence and death by keeping his most dangerous enemies alive, as if to use them as a tool to keep himself necessary to Gotham, as if fighting crime became an addiction to him. That doesn't seem like something Kreia would miss.
Actually, she would point how he is brewing a monster in himself, after if he already decided that if he kills he can't stop, why does he continue on? After all, one day he will kill someone, nobody is infallible, and if he can't recover from that he should so readily into violence. She is insightful enough to understand that is a dead point Batman won't budge unless he is at the breaking point
@@indulgencerofindulgence5970 Still, she would consider one monster over many monsters an improvement, and she would disapprove of Batman not killing his most dangerous rogues. I think she would ultimately consider him a coward who is afraid of his own nature.
Kreia never ceases to amaze me as a character. Even in KOTOR 2, although her plan was pretty evil and would've led to the end of countless lives, she wasn't doing it out of malice. She was doing it because she felt it was the only way to save the galaxy forever and break the cycle that the Star Wars canon is still stuck in thousands of years after her death.
Always important to remember that Kreia's plan to kill the Force was plan B, not plan A. Plan A was for you to kill her, stop the threat of Malachor's echo (which was going to kill the Force & potentially everyone even without Kreia's Plan B, as discovered by Mical) and enable you to teach others how to safely sever their connections to the Force by starting a new Force/Jedi/Sith philosophy.
This is why Batman's short and cut-off monologue at Superman's grave in the Justice League animated series episode "Hereafter" is so perfect. Despite everything that makes Batman who he is, he knows that there are _better_ ways, even if his way is still fundamentally good. When Superman is supposedly killed, he searches tirelessly for evidence both for and against Superman actually being dead, and, in what's basically a moment of weakness, he arrives at the grave and confesses. He confesses that, through it all, he deeply respects Superman, because what Superman's example showed him is that using fear and darkness to fight crime _isn't_ the only way. You can be public, you can work in the daylight, you can be a moral paragon whom everyone can look to directly and even meet in their everyday life, and you can still make a difference. The darkness that spawned Batman - the darkness of his city, his parents' deaths, his villains - it was all he knew. All he could train himself to fight. He gives the people of Gotham hope, but there've been so many times that Batman was without it. No hope, just _conviction_ and a belief that what he was doing was the only thing he _should_ be doing. But, where Batman strikes from the dark to protect the innocent, Superman descends from the light to save and uplift them. But, the ultimate question, and one that Kreia should consider, is whether Batman is strong enough to follow Superman's example. Sure, he's tailored his equipment and methods around the use of fear tactics and darkness to make himself the strongest Batman he can be. But would he be strong enough to operate in the light? To be public? With Superman, it's "easy". Someone who's nigh-indestructible can show their face and not have to fear reproach so readily. What Superman's existence teaches Batman, and a lesson he should already know as of this conversation, is that the way Kreia suggests _does_ exist and is viable. But she, herself, is Force-sensitive. Even a "mere" human who taps into the Force practically becomes a super-soldier with magic powers, and even a novice Jedi would have tools that might make killing someone like Batman an _easy_ task. Kreia is speaking, essentially, from privilege. Despite everything he has accomplished, and everything he has learned, Batman is still _just a man_ .
10 หลายเดือนก่อน +30
Batman protects Gotham but that makes the people of Gotham weaker, because Batman denies them of defending themselves against criminals Kreia's philoshophy
While some people have mixed feelings on AI generated voices I see it as a way to immortalize the great voice actors like Kevin Conroy for future generations to enjoy.
Excellent voice model. Really gets across her emotions, her judgement, so many other voice models sound like her, but have none of the emotion. Great job.
That was a great video. I think the Batman Beyond series shows why Batman is right in the end. Without Batman, all of Gotham’s problems don’t go away, they get worse until he finds a successor.
LMAO, that's just a writing decision, you could also point the same way to The Dark Knight and say that the city is better without Batman, or take a step further and say that the Batman's rogue gallery being dead is better for the city.
Would love to see one with Kreia and Spider-Man. Always thought their philosophies were opposite of each other. I know Kreia would take issue with “you help someone, you help everyone” lol
Perhaps; Kreia is also a believer in "hand in forward" however, as seen on Nar Shadaa with the separated couple (if you tell him to help others as you helped him). For her it's about going beyond just helping, making sure to "make the right echo" and encourage others to help others in turn (and thus encouraging others to strengthen themselves as well).
That’s true, but she would also be against going out of your way to help everyone, which Spidey does regardless of whatever “echo” he makes. In any case it would be a fascinating conversation!
Gotta love when people enter a philosophical debate with Batman, challenging the flaws in his code, doctrine and methods; really shows the hero's flaws when done right. And Kreia is one of the best examples who could truly challenge him in that sense. "Harsh, but necessary" is also a great way to describe her personality.
*car pulls up and Robocop steps out* J: "Well well well, is it Halloween already? This place is going MAD I say hehehahahaha... Then again it is Gotham, so who am I to judge? " RC: "come along quietly or there will be. . trouble *draws gun* J: oooooo goodie! Is that a promise Tin Man! *Pulls out a cork gun* Two can play at this game mwahahhahaha" RC: I am composed of a titanium allo- J: yawn.. and I thought Bats was boring, ta-ta tin man *throws marbles on the ground at begins to run away*
this actually is very reminicent of a Scarecrow Story where he has Batman sit down for a "therapy session" in which they explore a view that Batman is (unintentionally) a major roadblock on the path to recovery of most of his rouge's gallery.
Weirdly enough, I want Kreia to debate Ranni the Witch from Elden Ring. I feel you can do something interesting there with their mutual dislike of their respective setting’s established system and their negative views of a “deity” (Greater Will and the Force) imposing a destiny.
The fun thing is that in one of the comics for Batman, he kinda takes this advice (not from Kreia obviously) and does everything that Kreia essentially would’ve wanted from Bruce to begin with. Basically he fakes his own death and trains a new generation of vigilantes to ACTUALLY EFFECTIVELY thwart the crime of Gotham. The city know longer idolises Batman, and the city also learns to defend itself (with help of Batman from the shadows in a way where they never know it’s him). Obviously Batman came to this conclusion himself in the comic, after old age caught up with him, but it’s interesting to see how Kreia’s debate here is exactly what would happen if they ever did clash ideals.
That was cool, but instead of a debate it just felt like Batman was just being lectured by Kreia. He says "I want to stop a problem" and Kreia says "Actually you're the problem" and Batman just accepts it. No denials, no counter-argument, no questions of his own. Like it actually felt like Batman said "I stopped Joker from blowing up an orphanage" and Kreia responded with "and that was a bad thing" and then Batman goes "oh man I guess you're right I need to rethink my life."
AI Kreia was just saying being dark and edgy isn't going to lead to the change batman wants. He's a response, he fights for justice but he's as dark as the rest of the villains because they are all apart Gotham. He creates fear and chaos in his wake. scaring and sometimes creating more people for him to deal with. She called it a never-ending war and Batman was designed to be that way as a comic.
Kreia needs to debate a Black Templar… (which will last about 15 seconds at most before said Black Templar either starts firing his bolter or swinging with a sword)
she kinda has a point, witouth batman, gotham would fall in years, but ironically, that would also mean that the cycle would stop, batman is a bandaid.
Somehow I love how thick headed Batman sounds here. :D He basically ignores all that Traya says here and boils everything down to IaM aLL thT STandS betWeeN GoTham and evil. The very ending of the video somewhat soothes this notion but I guess Bruce would need a few more lessons to really get Darth's point. It would be nice to see more of these two. :)
Kriea is grabbing at straws here. Batman has to exist because Gothams crime is so corrupt and powerful, the innocent need a warrior to hold up the shield. Batman wants nothing more for the city to not need him so the crusade can end. As long as super criminals exist, GCPD can’t do it alone.
Batman would help more by giving the city the tools to take down supervillains instead of having them only rely on him. To truly empower others you give them the tools to fight their enemies you don't just fight them on your own.
Batman tries his best and indeed saves people but he is a crutch. Kreia rightfully points to the stagnation and sometimes the enabling of gothams helplessness. How many comics have we read about the shock and surprise that batman comic victims display every time a villain betrays them or puts them in danger. Are these people unaware of the history and danger of the town they live in? How come the preparation and caution that batman demonstrates is not repeated by others all over the city. If they have batman they dont need to plan for the worse outcome the hero does this for them.
Batman: "I will not kill. I will not cross that line." Kreia: "And how many more have suffered and died at the Joker's hands because of your adherence to this dogma? The system of Gotham has failed to euthanize him, but their failure is also yours. Do you think young Jason Todd cared for your idealism when he was being beaten to death? Or Barbara Gordon while lying on the floor paralyzed? Or the hundreds and thousands killed in this eternal war between you and him? You bear responsibility through your inaction. Much of it could have been prevented were you but to use your power to make the right choice." Batman: "And what would be lost in the process? Am I to become judge, jury, and executioner? To make decisions of life and death for all criminals? I refuse to kill because it would be so easy. Someone trained as I am could deal death as easily as I picking up the newspaper. It is my conviction that keeps me from becoming what I seek to stop. To stop my crusade from being swallowed by the shadows as you put it. If I cross that line, no one can know if I'd ever draw a new one."
This was awesome, except darth Kreia would mock Batmans non-lethal crusade, she would try to crush him with the good old "By not going full out on those you deem enemies to the weak and innocent and merely wash your self off from the self imposed responsibility you claim to carry by letting them live and you do it by giving this responsibility to guards with electric batons, knowing that they will eventually escape. How many lives has been lost to just ONE of your deadliest foes, the laughing prince of crime whom does his best to undo the lives you save. You tell your self that this is due to an oath. This oath is a nothing but a pair of sellf imposed rules hindering you from doing what must be done. And when you lie awake at night..:" Batman: I don't lay awake at night, night time is when i do field work" Kreia: "...ahh like a bat indeed, nevertheless, do you ever wonder what good does your oath do for the victims of the laughing man? That man alone is a mass murderer, how about all the others? Even if you do end up putting them back in Arkham, for how long can you do it? Every day wears you down a little, your reflexes become duller, strength vanes for how many more years can you go on like this? Power hates a vacum and the way you keep your tactics so close to the vest, noone will be able to wear the cowl and keep these monsters in check, because you grew stronger, faster, smarter and learned how to out think your opponents through experience, no matter how you plan and prepare for your inevetable demise, they will not be ready, they will not have shared your development through the years which was necessary to keep up, did you family of bats do the same? No, you coddled them, taught them much but not even close to all. This will be Gothams fall, and Gothams fall will be your legacy if you don't adapt Batman." Batman: "You have given me alot to think about, nothing new, but from angles and perspective that gcave me some inspiration. Don't worry about the future of Gotham, Gotham is mine to protect and when the time has come, when i have given it everything i have, i may then have passed on, but so does Batman" Kreia: "Oh, you sound so sure about yourself, what grand plans did you hatch in that scheeming head of yours? How can you be so sure?" Batman: "..." (because batman is usually not chatty, especially not with a 1000 contingency plans and the 10 000 contingencies for those and so on" Kreia: "Secrecy, that i can understand *turns eyes to something blinking in the distance* but.... *batman gone* But this was awesome nonetheless, i mean, who the hell comes up with such genius idea with Batman vs Kreia debate?? SUPERCUDOS to you FryIAmLegend and best regards brother, Solo - Sweden
These AI debates have shown me that Batman's logic is flawed and he deserves time in Arkham. His goals are inconsistent and sore more of a heroes complex than a practical strategy to quell crime and corruption
![ลองสุ่มไอโฟน 990 โกงมั้ย? [ โกงมั้ยครับ ep.101 ] | DOM](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/bfsWe0j492k/mqdefault.jpg)
The best part of this, is that both are using their actual arguments that they use in the game. Like Kreia saying Batman saving Gotham makes Gotham weaker because they don't grow strong from solving their own problems. Kreia pointing out the difference between using fear and inspiring true influence and loyalty.
she's also wrong. both are important. fear is control to deter those from committing injustice.
@@ghostface4404 Weeding is insufficient. One must plant what they wish to see.
@@benhughes9838 I said both have merits.
Maybe that's the reason why crime in Gotham became more prominent and bolder before Terry McGinnis became the next Batman; Gotham was simply too weak because they constantly relied on Batman for decades to deal with Gotham's problems. So, when Bruce Wayne became too old to keep going on as Batman, the criminals had nothing more to fear from the Dark Knight once Bruce hung up the cape and cowl, and the people of Gotham were simply too weak or too inept to try and solve the problems of crime and corruption on their own without Batman.
@@JoshtheBackwoodsStoryteller you ask for too much. not everyone is intellectually, physically, fanatically or morally capable.
„Fear is the weapon of Tyrants too weak to inspire true loyalty“ that line hits so hard!!!
it's also a necessity to deter.
You can only do so much before the masses and the people rise up and revolt. Fear may be a deterrent but it’s only temporary and it will only go so far before it becomes ineffective
@@liamdacre1818if it's uncontrolled. The the citizens loved Batman. You're looking at things from an extremist perspective that would be more suited to a dictator. In terms of ruling, you'd be correct, hence, why I promote wisdom, compassion and then, strength and in that order.
Wait until you play the game
Nearly everything she said falls within her known moral and philosophical values. This was eerily perfect.
"Consideration is the beginning of wisdom not the end."
Holy crap even in AI Kreia is still profound
"All Heroes are flawed, and All Crusades are doomed to be consumed by the shadows they seek to banish."
Profoundly Grim, but Profound nonetheless.
All villains and evil are flawed
I feel like Kreia's discussions with Batman & Joshua Graham mirror the sorts of discussions she'd have with Revan while he was her padawan.
Revan failed against Vitiate but he caused others to stand up and defeat him in the end
And that's one of the reasons that Revan was one of the greatest force wielders in the history of the setting
It think there’s one thing they both missed. Yes Batman may be robbing Gotham of the chance to grow, evolve and protect itself.
But people are afraid, some even conditioned to be that way. People need a beacon to inspire them and eventually they will believe and come out of hiding and fight. All you need was 1 match to light the fire and Batman is that match.
What I loved about The Dark Knight Rises film is that the people of Gotham, who were inspired by Batman, fought Bane until Batman came in the last minute to help defeat the brute.
I think that when you've grown accustomed to corruption and evil, especially the kind that permeates throughout Gotham on a daily basis, it's hard for the common people to gain any incentive to try and change things for the better. Most people are too scared to stand up because all too often their voices go unheard or are drowned out in the chaos. Batman may stagnate progress to a degree but he's a force for justice and his existence proves that there are those who are willing to bring an end to suffering. I guess the question is, are people willing to sacrifice their own agency in exchange for an alternative, that while flawed, will do everything within their power to ensure a better tomorrow comes to fruition?
I loved the part in the dark knight returns where Batman inspires the thugs in city to stand up for law and order.
Batman was once presented with a choice once, between the world he lived in and an ideal world where the good guys always won and his parents still lived. The only question Bruce asked is if Dick Grayson (the first Robin) was a better man in that world than in his. The answer was no because despite the shortcomings of his world, Bruce's version of Dick was just as much of a hero as the idealized version. It wasn't that Dick was better in his world. It's just that he wouldn't be better in the ideal world. He was already the ideal Dick Grayson. That proved to Batman that his world was worth keeping. It proved that his world could one day become that ideal world on its own because of people like Dick who he helped raise.
It's surprising Kreia didn't point out how Batman perpetuates the cycle of violence and death by keeping his most dangerous enemies alive, as if to use them as a tool to keep himself necessary to Gotham, as if fighting crime became an addiction to him. That doesn't seem like something Kreia would miss.
Actually, she would point how he is brewing a monster in himself, after if he already decided that if he kills he can't stop, why does he continue on? After all, one day he will kill someone, nobody is infallible, and if he can't recover from that he should so readily into violence.
She is insightful enough to understand that is a dead point Batman won't budge unless he is at the breaking point
@@indulgencerofindulgence5970 Still, she would consider one monster over many monsters an improvement, and she would disapprove of Batman not killing his most dangerous rogues. I think she would ultimately consider him a coward who is afraid of his own nature.
Kreia never ceases to amaze me as a character. Even in KOTOR 2, although her plan was pretty evil and would've led to the end of countless lives, she wasn't doing it out of malice. She was doing it because she felt it was the only way to save the galaxy forever and break the cycle that the Star Wars canon is still stuck in thousands of years after her death.
Always important to remember that Kreia's plan to kill the Force was plan B, not plan A. Plan A was for you to kill her, stop the threat of Malachor's echo (which was going to kill the Force & potentially everyone even without Kreia's Plan B, as discovered by Mical) and enable you to teach others how to safely sever their connections to the Force by starting a new Force/Jedi/Sith philosophy.
This is why Batman's short and cut-off monologue at Superman's grave in the Justice League animated series episode "Hereafter" is so perfect. Despite everything that makes Batman who he is, he knows that there are _better_ ways, even if his way is still fundamentally good. When Superman is supposedly killed, he searches tirelessly for evidence both for and against Superman actually being dead, and, in what's basically a moment of weakness, he arrives at the grave and confesses. He confesses that, through it all, he deeply respects Superman, because what Superman's example showed him is that using fear and darkness to fight crime _isn't_ the only way. You can be public, you can work in the daylight, you can be a moral paragon whom everyone can look to directly and even meet in their everyday life, and you can still make a difference. The darkness that spawned Batman - the darkness of his city, his parents' deaths, his villains - it was all he knew. All he could train himself to fight. He gives the people of Gotham hope, but there've been so many times that Batman was without it. No hope, just _conviction_ and a belief that what he was doing was the only thing he _should_ be doing. But, where Batman strikes from the dark to protect the innocent, Superman descends from the light to save and uplift them.
But, the ultimate question, and one that Kreia should consider, is whether Batman is strong enough to follow Superman's example. Sure, he's tailored his equipment and methods around the use of fear tactics and darkness to make himself the strongest Batman he can be. But would he be strong enough to operate in the light? To be public? With Superman, it's "easy". Someone who's nigh-indestructible can show their face and not have to fear reproach so readily.
What Superman's existence teaches Batman, and a lesson he should already know as of this conversation, is that the way Kreia suggests _does_ exist and is viable. But she, herself, is Force-sensitive. Even a "mere" human who taps into the Force practically becomes a super-soldier with magic powers, and even a novice Jedi would have tools that might make killing someone like Batman an _easy_ task. Kreia is speaking, essentially, from privilege.
Despite everything he has accomplished, and everything he has learned, Batman is still _just a man_ .
Batman protects Gotham but that makes the people of Gotham weaker, because Batman denies them of defending themselves against criminals
Kreia's philoshophy
Me doing a bit of charity like sparing a few credits to a beggar
*Influence lost: Kreia*
Ah the fond memories.
While some people have mixed feelings on AI generated voices I see it as a way to immortalize the great voice actors like Kevin Conroy for future generations to enjoy.
Excellent voice model. Really gets across her emotions, her judgement, so many other voice models sound like her, but have none of the emotion. Great job.
The way Kreia speaks and gives knowledge always been so therapeutic to me
That was a great video. I think the Batman Beyond series shows why Batman is right in the end. Without Batman, all of Gotham’s problems don’t go away, they get worse until he finds a successor.
LMAO, that's just a writing decision, you could also point the same way to The Dark Knight and say that the city is better without Batman, or take a step further and say that the Batman's rogue gallery being dead is better for the city.
Would love to see one with Kreia and Spider-Man. Always thought their philosophies were opposite of each other. I know Kreia would take issue with “you help someone, you help everyone” lol
Perhaps; Kreia is also a believer in "hand in forward" however, as seen on Nar Shadaa with the separated couple (if you tell him to help others as you helped him). For her it's about going beyond just helping, making sure to "make the right echo" and encourage others to help others in turn (and thus encouraging others to strengthen themselves as well).
That’s true, but she would also be against going out of your way to help everyone, which Spidey does regardless of whatever “echo” he makes. In any case it would be a fascinating conversation!
I hate how much I relate to Kreia, picking apart every single thing..
Can’t relate
Gotta love when people enter a philosophical debate with Batman, challenging the flaws in his code, doctrine and methods; really shows the hero's flaws when done right. And Kreia is one of the best examples who could truly challenge him in that sense. "Harsh, but necessary" is also a great way to describe her personality.
I'd suspect Kreia warned me about Frank Miller's version of Batman: The Dark Knight... *Shivered* 😨
Batman gained influence with Kreia
At least Batman has allies, unlike Kreia who keeps getting backstabbed. I wonder why.
She is the Lord of Betrayal, after all
@@TheCouriersGambit And getting backstabbed.
If judgement is the lens you see the world through, don’t be surprised when that lens turns on you.
It would be interesting for Kreia to debate Raiden, either the MGS4 version or "Jack the Ripper" from Revengence
The idea of Kreia speaking perspective to Batman is incredible!
Can we see one where RoboCop goes to Gotham and meets Batman and Arresting the joker
*car pulls up and Robocop steps out*
J: "Well well well, is it Halloween already? This place is going MAD I say hehehahahaha... Then again it is Gotham, so who am I to judge? "
RC: "come along quietly or there will be. . trouble *draws gun*
J: oooooo goodie! Is that a promise Tin Man! *Pulls out a cork gun* Two can play at this game mwahahhahaha"
RC: I am composed of a titanium allo-
J: yawn.. and I thought Bats was boring, ta-ta tin man *throws marbles on the ground at begins to run away*
Good lord, Kreia verbally eviscerated the bat.
And now that is one smart discussion.
Kreia is badass
Batman wouldn't thank her, though. He'd either scowl and grapple away, or try to beat her up.
The fact that this is actually good does wondrrs for my day.
Damn she really handed it to him lol. This is why she’s my favorite :3
1:38 savage vandal , luthor and kreia would get along wonderful
How are you doing these so well, you would make for a great writer. I could listen to these for hours.
debate between her and Konrad Curze would definitely be something.
but I doubt there would be words that would calm him.
Kreia lives rent free in my head these days. I wish I could sit and debate with her
this actually is very reminicent of a Scarecrow Story where he has Batman sit down for a "therapy session" in which they explore a view that Batman is (unintentionally) a major roadblock on the path to recovery of most of his rouge's gallery.
Post-conversation:
Light Side points gained
Dark Side points gained
Net Light Side Shift
Influence Gained: Kreia
Influence Lost: Kreia
Arise Darth Batman!
I was really hoping she'd call him Bruce at the end and i dont know why?
Kreia gave Batman a beating
I kinda want to see a conversation between Kreia and the Emperor Of Mankind from 40K
That was beautiful, Batman’s philosophy broken down to what it really is.
I gotta meet you bro these scripts are sick lol
Weirdly enough, I want Kreia to debate Ranni the Witch from Elden Ring. I feel you can do something interesting there with their mutual dislike of their respective setting’s established system and their negative views of a “deity” (Greater Will and the Force) imposing a destiny.
The fun thing is that in one of the comics for Batman, he kinda takes this advice (not from Kreia obviously) and does everything that Kreia essentially would’ve wanted from Bruce to begin with.
Basically he fakes his own death and trains a new generation of vigilantes to ACTUALLY EFFECTIVELY thwart the crime of Gotham. The city know longer idolises Batman, and the city also learns to defend itself (with help of Batman from the shadows in a way where they never know it’s him). Obviously Batman came to this conclusion himself in the comic, after old age caught up with him, but it’s interesting to see how Kreia’s debate here is exactly what would happen if they ever did clash ideals.
That was cool, but instead of a debate it just felt like Batman was just being lectured by Kreia. He says "I want to stop a problem" and Kreia says "Actually you're the problem" and Batman just accepts it. No denials, no counter-argument, no questions of his own.
Like it actually felt like Batman said "I stopped Joker from blowing up an orphanage" and Kreia responded with "and that was a bad thing" and then Batman goes "oh man I guess you're right I need to rethink my life."
AI Kreia was just saying being dark and edgy isn't going to lead to the change batman wants. He's a response, he fights for justice but he's as dark as the rest of the villains because they are all apart Gotham. He creates fear and chaos in his wake. scaring and sometimes creating more people for him to deal with. She called it a never-ending war and Batman was designed to be that way as a comic.
Kreia needs to debate a Black Templar… (which will last about 15 seconds at most before said Black Templar either starts firing his bolter or swinging with a sword)
she kinda has a point, witouth batman, gotham would fall in years, but ironically, that would also mean that the cycle would stop, batman is a bandaid.
The difference is Batman inspires and helps the innocent. Kreia merely brings terror across the Galaxy even though what she says is true.
Also, Kreia is a crazy fucking chick who projects onto everything
@@whateverwhatever4476Not really, if you consider how the Force works in Kotor. She does has a point regarding the world and does something about it.
Somehow I love how thick headed Batman sounds here. :D He basically ignores all that Traya says here and boils everything down to IaM aLL thT STandS betWeeN GoTham and evil. The very ending of the video somewhat soothes this notion but I guess Bruce would need a few more lessons to really get Darth's point. It would be nice to see more of these two. :)
Kriea is grabbing at straws here. Batman has to exist because Gothams crime is so corrupt and powerful, the innocent need a warrior to hold up the shield. Batman wants nothing more for the city to not need him so the crusade can end. As long as super criminals exist, GCPD can’t do it alone.
Batman would help more by giving the city the tools to take down supervillains instead of having them only rely on him. To truly empower others you give them the tools to fight their enemies you don't just fight them on your own.
Batman tries his best and indeed saves people but he is a crutch. Kreia rightfully points to the stagnation and sometimes the enabling of gothams helplessness. How many comics have we read about the shock and surprise that batman comic victims display every time a villain betrays them or puts them in danger.
Are these people unaware of the history and danger of the town they live in? How come the preparation and caution that batman demonstrates is not repeated by others all over the city. If they have batman they dont need to plan for the worse outcome the hero does this for them.
Batman: "I will not kill. I will not cross that line."
Kreia: "And how many more have suffered and died at the Joker's hands because of your adherence to this dogma? The system of Gotham has failed to euthanize him, but their failure is also yours. Do you think young Jason Todd cared for your idealism when he was being beaten to death? Or Barbara Gordon while lying on the floor paralyzed? Or the hundreds and thousands killed in this eternal war between you and him? You bear responsibility through your inaction. Much of it could have been prevented were you but to use your power to make the right choice."
Batman: "And what would be lost in the process? Am I to become judge, jury, and executioner? To make decisions of life and death for all criminals? I refuse to kill because it would be so easy. Someone trained as I am could deal death as easily as I picking up the newspaper. It is my conviction that keeps me from becoming what I seek to stop. To stop my crusade from being swallowed by the shadows as you put it. If I cross that line, no one can know if I'd ever draw a new one."
Finding victory in defeat is a hard lesson
Well… That was terrifying
This was awesome, except darth Kreia would mock Batmans non-lethal crusade, she would try to crush him with the good old
"By not going full out on those you deem enemies to the weak and innocent and merely wash your self off from the self imposed responsibility you claim to carry by letting them live and you do it by giving this responsibility to guards with electric batons, knowing that they will eventually escape.
How many lives has been lost to just ONE of your deadliest foes, the laughing prince of crime whom does his best to undo the lives you save.
You tell your self that this is due to an oath. This oath is a nothing but a pair of sellf imposed rules hindering you from doing what must be done.
And when you lie awake at night..:"
Batman: I don't lay awake at night, night time is when i do field work"
Kreia: "...ahh like a bat indeed, nevertheless, do you ever wonder what good does your oath do for the victims of the laughing man? That man alone is a mass murderer, how about all the others? Even if you do end up putting them back in Arkham, for how long can you do it? Every day wears you down a little, your reflexes become duller, strength vanes for how many more years can you go on like this? Power hates a vacum and the way you keep your tactics so close to the vest, noone will be able to wear the cowl and keep these monsters in check, because you grew stronger, faster, smarter and learned how to out think your opponents through experience, no matter how you plan and prepare for your inevetable demise, they will not be ready, they will not have shared your development through the years which was necessary to keep up, did you family of bats do the same? No, you coddled them, taught them much but not even close to all.
This will be Gothams fall, and Gothams fall will be your legacy if you don't adapt Batman."
Batman: "You have given me alot to think about, nothing new, but from angles and perspective that gcave me some inspiration. Don't worry about the future of Gotham, Gotham is mine to protect and when the time has come, when i have given it everything i have, i may then have passed on, but so does Batman"
Kreia: "Oh, you sound so sure about yourself, what grand plans did you hatch in that scheeming head of yours? How can you be so sure?"
Batman: "..." (because batman is usually not chatty, especially not with a 1000 contingency plans and the 10 000 contingencies for those and so on"
Kreia: "Secrecy, that i can understand *turns eyes to something blinking in the distance* but.... *batman gone*
But this was awesome nonetheless, i mean, who the hell comes up with such genius idea with Batman vs Kreia debate??
SUPERCUDOS to you FryIAmLegend
and best regards brother,
Solo - Sweden
Kreia is philosophy incarnate. Batman is pragmatism in rhe real world, regardless of philosophical implications.
Hmm, I think i am with Kreia on this.
youre best one so far!
What if kreia talks with Shinji or gendo ikari
Nice video, I love listening to Kreia.
Kreia debates with Batman mirrors the movie The Dark Knight.
No one can win a debate with Kreia 😂
Long live Kreia The Wise!
How about Kreia talking to Captain Kirk.
EVOLUTION👽⚛️☯️... CORDIS DIE👏
Kreia beats all but Graham,
Batman has prevented the apocalypse multiple times tf she talkin about
Kreia wins again
Get rekt bats, lol
These AI debates have shown me that Batman's logic is flawed and he deserves time in Arkham. His goals are inconsistent and sore more of a heroes complex than a practical strategy to quell crime and corruption