To Be Greek or Not to Be Greek? Ancient Judaism Confronts Hellenism
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 14 พ.ค. 2017
- Siegal Lifelong Learning | Spring 2017 Lecture Series
To Be Greek or Not to Be Greek? Ancient Judaism Confronts Hellenism
Wed, March 15, 2017
Landmark Centre
Beachwood OH 44122
Brian Amkraut, Executive Director, Siegal Lifelong Learning
This session examines the early Hellenistic era in the Land of Israel, with particular attention to the internal conflict generated by the rise of Hellenism within the Jewish community at the time. What specific geopolitical and cultural factors led to the strife and how did various segments of the community respond? This topic is also explored in The People vs. the Maccabees, a mock trial presented by Kol HaLev, Cleveland’s Reconstructionist Jewish Community.
![Fc ครับ ขอแนะนำให้รู้จักกับ "น้องเปียโน" l [Nickynachat]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/HQU6Q_IYTLo/mqdefault.jpg)
Thank Greece for everything!
@ DK-rv1nf
itch please with that comment
The ironic thing is that the Greeks were instrumental in saving Jewish culture over the 2000 years from which Hadrian banned the Jews from their lands. If the Greeks had not been so keen to preserving knowledge of Jewish culture, much of it would have been lost over the millennia.
Great Speaker Overall. Well executed!!
HELLAS59 - Don’t say “executed” in the context of the Maccabees and the Greeks: it makes people nervous.
@@dorianphilotheates3769 Hehe, you are right. I forgot about General Bacchides and what he did to the Jews 🙈
7:35 "questions about sovereignty*chokes*"
I feel that
Greeks are great!
The Jews have adopted hellenism because they admired it but on the other hand, that made them feel lesser than the Greeks.
They still fight hellenism if you hear their rabbis speaking, they will never get over this historical fact.
And the Greeks were persianized
@@greenmachine5600 the Greeks stopped the Persian invasion
@@greenmachine5600 Nope. There is barely any similarity between persian and hellenic culture.
Green Machine - No. One may say a lot of thing about the Greeks, but being “Persianized” is definitely not one of them. Perhaps you are thinking of those Greeks accused of “Medism” («Μηδίζειν», «Μηδισμός») by other Greeks - i.e., collaborating, or making political overtures toward the Medes/Persians - but that had nothing to do with cultural influences.
The pharisees hate the greeks, not the sadussees who were hellenized jews
Another theory about the absence of I & II Maccabees, as well as the Book of Judith, from the Tanakh, is that, being under Roman rule and living in the aftermath of the Jewish revolts against the Romans and the destruction of Jerusalem, the rabbis did not want to be seen as promoting narratives that seemingly encouraged rebellion against a ruling empire.
To give people a idea to the greek cultural grip over the world of that time, at least one roman emperor wrotte personal notes to himself in greek, because it was the language of thinking men. We of the west are born submerged into hellenistic cultures that has existed for so long we simple see it as our own.
fantastic presentation: you forgot to mention "synagogue" is a greek word.
question: how much did the native israelites mix with ethnic greeks and are modern ashkenazic jews perhaps their descendants?
Dan Reznik "Greek" is a Latin word coined by Romans, nob knows the origin or true meaning. The "Greeks" actually called themselves Hellenes and weren't an ethnicity but a religious sect popularized by Macedonians.
Dan Reznik How could anyone know who had sex with who in ancient times unless it was written about, and even then?
The fact is that Antiochus Epiphanes forced conversion to the Hellenic pagan cult, death was the penalty for all who refused and many did, this is what led to the rebellion of the House of the sons of Simon aka Hasmoneans, according to the Books of Maccabees.
Since Judaism is a religion and the Hellenes were a (pagan polytheistic) religious sect made up of many ethnicities and popularized by Macedonian Kings, the use of the Latin word Greek is erroneous and misleading. No country named Greece or Hellas existed until the 1800's.
Modern Greece, the region, was annexed into the Kingdom of Macedonia by Philip and/or Alexander, there were no Greeks because Greece wasn't a country, what we call Greece today was several independent kingdoms before being annexed. It became part of the Roman Empire and then the Ottoman Empire.
Dan Reznik So the answer to your question is that there weren't any ethnic Greeks, because Greece didn't exist until the 1800's. Every author of antiquity knew that to be a Hellene had nothing to do with ethnicity. Alexander is said to have converted the Praesii tribe of India to the Hellenic cult, Tatian the Assyrian was a Hellene before converting to Christianity, Clement of Alexandria was Egyptian and did the same thing. Aristides of Athens did it in the 1st or second century, he quit the Hellenes for the Christians. Clement of Alexandria wrote "Exhortation to the Hellenes" which is usually translated, "... to the Heathens." Sometimes "Greeks."
You can't change your ethnic origins. A Macedonian is always Macedonian, an Athenian an Athenian, yet millions of people over the course of centuries quit the Hellenes until they ceased to exist around the 5th century, being defeated by Christianity, the generations of Roman Christians in the Eastern Roman Empire called themselves Romans, because they were Roman, one way or another, they simply used a version of the language of the Hellenes, who did not exist any longer to use it.
Porphyry was one of the last Hellenic philosophers. He was Aramaean, Phoenician, by his own admission, his name was actually Malach-os, meaning King. He is, nevertheless, dubbed a Greek philosopher. Because apparently he knew the language and wrote in it. But I am not English. Nobody has ever called me English or assumed that I was because I speak it. To Hellenophiles everything is Greek, despite the fact that nothing actually is, including today's Greeks who are descendants of people who called themselves Romans. European scholars don't like this because this is the non European part of the Roman Empire, the more successful, EASTERN half. That lasted 1,000 years after the collapse of the Western half. So they decided to call it Byzantine, which is illogical entirely.
Dan Reznik Ashkenazi Jews are European by blood, mostly descendants of the Khazar Kingdom whose King made Judaism the official religion before the Kingdom fell. Ashkenaz comes from the book of Genesis, is a non Semite son of Javan and related to Gog and Magog according to the Torah. See Kitab al-Kuzari by Judah ha-Levi for further reference, although not exactly a historical writing it is based on the known fact that the Khazar King converted his Kingdom to the religion of the Rabbis.
Well, the comment section was most edifying; I’d like to read on, but I must get back to the “Kardashians” marathon...
Even that is much more interesting than some clowns [Simon Bargiora] that have commented on this video 🤣
So from Reading everybody's comments.everybody seems to be into the proper language that everything was properly written. I always study history from the business side of things. I started from a very natsu talked about pointed recent history. Took that and ask myself a question. in certain private ridings I read that alcohol was used as their weapon. I will not go into the context to where this came. Without trying to be tedious witch history can be. I try to look like superficially and see in history where liberal attitudes were most prominent. And without knowing much of what I wanted to find. I came up with Dionysus. Really Bacchus. And from there some biblical lines. That one could easily associate with Christ and Bacchus. from there I found a very obscure post on the internet in a forum. a guy was talking about how God with the proper prefix in the original language that everything was written in which translates to Zeus in the old testament.
If you examine 1 Maccabees in Sinaiticus, the manuscript online, you will find interpolation in every translation where the word Kingdom is mentioned regarding the Macedonians, already mentioned, so that fact that the manuscript lacks "Ellinas" makes the translations interpolated so as to portray the idea of a Greek Kings and Kingdom.
Alexander is called Macedonian and King of the Ellada, the first of them to be King, and said to be from the land of Kittim.
🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡
Καὶ ἐγένετο μετὰ τὸ πατάξαι Ἀλέξανδρον τὸν Φιλίππου τὸν Μακεδόνα, ὃς ἐξῆλθεν ἐκ τῆς γῆς Χεττειείμ, καὶ ἐπάταξε τὸν Δαρεῖον βασιλέα Περσῶν καὶ Μήδων καὶ ἐβασίλευσεν ἀντ᾿ αὐτοῦ πρότερος ἐπὶ τὴν Ἑλλάδα.
And it happened, after that Alexander son of Philip, the Macedonian, who came out of the land of Chettiim, had smitten Darius king of the Persians and Medes, that he reigned in his stead, the first from Greece,
{Mac 1:1:1}KJV
καὶ ἐξῆλθεν ἐξ αὐτῶν ῥίζα ἁμαρτωλὸς Ἀντίοχος Ἐπιφανής, υἱὸς Ἀντιόχου βασιλέως, ὃς ἦν ὅμηρα ἐν τῇ Ῥώμῃ· καὶ ἐβασίλευσεν ἐν ἔτει ἑκατοστῷ καὶ τριακοστῷ καὶ ἑβδόμῳ βασιλείας Ἑλλήνων.
And there came out of them a wicked root Antiochus surnamed Epiphanes, son of Antiochus the king, who had been a hostage at Rome, and he reigned in the hundred and thirty and seventh year of the kingdom of the Greeks.
{1 Mac 1:10}KJV
καὶ τὸ ἱερὸν τὸ ἐν αὐτῇ πλούσιον σφόδρα, καὶ ἐκεῖ καλύμματα χρυσᾶ καὶ θώρακες καὶ ὅπλα, ἃ κατέλιπεν ἐκεῖ Ἀλέξανδρος ὁ Φιλίππου βασιλεὺς ὁ Μακεδών, ὃς ἐβασίλευσε πρῶτος ἐν τοῖς Ἕλλησι.
And that there was in it a very rich temple, wherein were coverings of gold, and breastplates, and shields, which Alexander, son of Philip, the Macedonian king, who reigned first among the Grecians, had left there.
{1 Mac: 6:2}KJV
καὶ τοῦ ἆραι τὸν ζυγὸν ἀπ᾿ αὐτῶν, ὅτι εἶδον τὴν βασιλείαν τῶν Ἑλλήνων καταδουλουμένους τὸν Ἰσραὴλ δουλείᾳ.
And to intreat them that they would take the yoke from them; for they saw that the kingdom of the Grecians did oppress Israel with servitude.
{1 Mac: 8:18}KJV
🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡
CRY BULGAROSKIPTARTARS !!! 🥸🤣
In their quest to mold a new alternative to the ancient Judaism based upon the actual, "Written" Torah, the Pharisees, namely the progeniitors of Rabbinic Judaism -- and following them their ancient Rabbinic successors -- voluntarily absorbed much from Hellenism.
"Thanks" to the processes the Jewish people underwent during its bitter lengthy Exile, this poses no extraordinary problem to the vast majority of modern Jews who follow rabbis in some way or another.
Basically, observent Jews unhappy about this to the extent they wish to keep being observent but turn their backs on these influences have the option of turning to Biblical Judaism, which most often means a Qaraite path, though not necessarily.
Synagogue = Greek Word
Syn + Agogi
Funnily enough, we don’t see any synagogues built until the Roman period. All the other ones that are supposedly older are contested.
In Hebrew we call it Beit Knesset which means house of gathering or house of assembly
@@Channel-ml4qv thank you for explaining.
LECTURE TITLE: “To be Greek or not to be Greek: That is the Question”. - Well, the answer depends on whether or not you value your sanity...
Haha FACTS 💯
HELLAS59 - 🙂
@@dorianphilotheates3769 🙌🏻🙌🏻🙌🏻
The Biblical Passover Feast was far different than our modern Passover. The Ancient Hebrews were not hiding bread and asking questions.
The word for Greek is ‘mysteriously’ absent from the manuscript of 1 Maccabees 6:2. It is not even the only incident where the word “Greek” appears in English without the word “Ellada”from which to translate. They just seem to have simply added it as if context demands it and it is not worth mentioning in a footnote, but the fact that some manuscripts use “them” instead of “Greeks” is? This is just plain disturbing.
1 Maccabees 6:2 refers to Alexander of Macedon, the son of Philip, who was king “εν τοις Ελλησι” (“among the Hellenes”) - to which manuscript are you referring?
Καὶ ἐγένετο μετὰ τὸ πατάξαι Ἀλέξανδρον τὸν Φιλίππου τὸν Μακεδόνα, ὃς ἐξῆλθεν ἐκ τῆς γῆς Χεττειείμ, καὶ ἐπάταξε τὸν Δαρεῖον βασιλέα Περσῶν καὶ Μήδων καὶ ἐβασίλευσεν ἀντ᾿ αὐτοῦ πρότερος ἐπὶ τὴν Ἑλλάδα.
And it happened, after that Alexander son of Philip, the Macedonian, who came out of the land of Chettiim, had smitten Darius king of the Persians and Medes, that he reigned in his stead, the first from Greece,
{Mac 1:1:1}KJV
καὶ ἐξῆλθεν ἐξ αὐτῶν ῥίζα ἁμαρτωλὸς Ἀντίοχος Ἐπιφανής, υἱὸς Ἀντιόχου βασιλέως, ὃς ἦν ὅμηρα ἐν τῇ Ῥώμῃ· καὶ ἐβασίλευσεν ἐν ἔτει ἑκατοστῷ καὶ τριακοστῷ καὶ ἑβδόμῳ βασιλείας Ἑλλήνων.
And there came out of them a wicked root Antiochus surnamed Epiphanes, son of Antiochus the king, who had been a hostage at Rome, and he reigned in the hundred and thirty and seventh year of the kingdom of the Greeks.
{1 Mac 1:10}KJV
καὶ τὸ ἱερὸν τὸ ἐν αὐτῇ πλούσιον σφόδρα, καὶ ἐκεῖ καλύμματα χρυσᾶ καὶ θώρακες καὶ ὅπλα, ἃ κατέλιπεν ἐκεῖ Ἀλέξανδρος ὁ Φιλίππου βασιλεὺς ὁ Μακεδών, ὃς ἐβασίλευσε πρῶτος ἐν τοῖς Ἕλλησι.
And that there was in it a very rich temple, wherein were coverings of gold, and breastplates, and shields, which Alexander, son of Philip, the Macedonian king, who reigned first among the Grecians, had left there.
{1 Mac: 6:2}KJV
καὶ τοῦ ἆραι τὸν ζυγὸν ἀπ᾿ αὐτῶν, ὅτι εἶδον τὴν βασιλείαν τῶν Ἑλλήνων καταδουλουμένους τὸν Ἰσραὴλ δουλείᾳ.
And to intreat them that they would take the yoke from them; for they saw that the kingdom of the Grecians did oppress Israel with servitude.
{1 Mac: 8:18}KJV
🤡🤡🤡🥸🤡🤡🤡
@@dorianphilotheates3769 FACTS 💯
Low Level Greek Strategos Bacchides defeated them 🤷🏻♂️ Maccabean Revolt was a Civil War issue, Hellenists vs Conservatives..
My favorite part of the story is antiochus getting put in his circle but that damn senator and then just going back and taking it out on everyone Palestine
The identification of Javan with Ionia and translation of Yunia from Semitic languages and the LXX to "Greece" is erroneous.
NO..it is absolutely SPOT ON!!!
Thats why all Greek Peoples are referred to as either: Javan, Yavan, Yavana, Yauna, Yona, Yunan, Yunani, Yunanistan, Alyunan, Alyunania!!
^^^^Its impossible that all these Nations all made this same mistake!!!
Every single Scholar in the Western World has come to the Conclusion that this was in reference to the First Greeks that came into contact with the "Eastern" World...the Ionians!
CRY VULGARO-SKIPTARTAR🤡🤣
We Indian called Greeks Ionas, Yavanas,Javanas
Hasmonean = The Simonians or sons of Simon, obviously, so why do scholars not seem to realize this? Like the relationship between Hasidim and Essenes, by Philo said to be for their "piety."
The debate is odd. The 1906 Jewish Encyclopedia actually mentioned this before the discovery of the DSS yet people still debate. Philo decides it by providing the meanings of Essenes.
1 Maccabees 1:1 (NRSV)
Alexander the Great
1 After Alexander son of Philip, the Macedonian, who came from the land of Kittim, had defeated King Darius of the Persians and the Medes, he succeeded him as king. (He had previously become king of Greece.) 2 He fought many battles, conquered strongholds, and put to death the kings of the earth. 3 He advanced to the ends of the earth, and plundered many nations. When the earth became quiet before him, he was exalted, and his heart was lifted up. 4 He gathered a very strong army and ruled over countries, nations, and princes, and they became tributary to him.”
“The Macedonian from the land of Kittim… King of Greece* (ελλαδα = Ellada in the oldest manuscript extant, Codex Sinaiticus).”
www.codexsinaiticus.org/en/manuscript.aspx?book=12&chapter=1&lid=en&side=r&zoomSlider=0
Καὶ ἐγένετο μετὰ τὸ πατάξαι Ἀλέξανδρον τὸν Φιλίππου τὸν Μακεδόνα, ὃς ἐξῆλθεν ἐκ τῆς γῆς Χεττειείμ, καὶ ἐπάταξε τὸν Δαρεῖον βασιλέα Περσῶν καὶ Μήδων καὶ ἐβασίλευσεν ἀντ᾿ αὐτοῦ πρότερος ἐπὶ τὴν Ἑλλάδα.
And it happened, after that Alexander son of Philip, the Macedonian, who came out of the land of Chettiim, had smitten Darius king of the Persians and Medes, that he reigned in his stead, the first from Greece,
{Mac 1:1:1}KJV
καὶ ἐξῆλθεν ἐξ αὐτῶν ῥίζα ἁμαρτωλὸς Ἀντίοχος Ἐπιφανής, υἱὸς Ἀντιόχου βασιλέως, ὃς ἦν ὅμηρα ἐν τῇ Ῥώμῃ· καὶ ἐβασίλευσεν ἐν ἔτει ἑκατοστῷ καὶ τριακοστῷ καὶ ἑβδόμῳ βασιλείας Ἑλλήνων.
And there came out of them a wicked root Antiochus surnamed Epiphanes, son of Antiochus the king, who had been a hostage at Rome, and he reigned in the hundred and thirty and seventh year of the kingdom of the Greeks.
{1 Mac 1:10}KJV
καὶ τὸ ἱερὸν τὸ ἐν αὐτῇ πλούσιον σφόδρα, καὶ ἐκεῖ καλύμματα χρυσᾶ καὶ θώρακες καὶ ὅπλα, ἃ κατέλιπεν ἐκεῖ Ἀλέξανδρος ὁ Φιλίππου βασιλεὺς ὁ Μακεδών, ὃς ἐβασίλευσε πρῶτος ἐν τοῖς Ἕλλησι.
And that there was in it a very rich temple, wherein were coverings of gold, and breastplates, and shields, which Alexander, son of Philip, the Macedonian king, who reigned first among the Grecians, had left there.
{1 Mac: 6:2}KJV
καὶ τοῦ ἆραι τὸν ζυγὸν ἀπ᾿ αὐτῶν, ὅτι εἶδον τὴν βασιλείαν τῶν Ἑλλήνων καταδουλουμένους τὸν Ἰσραὴλ δουλείᾳ.
And to intreat them that they would take the yoke from them; for they saw that the kingdom of the Grecians did oppress Israel with servitude.
{1 Mac: 8:18}KJV
^^^^ALL FOUND ON CODEX SINAITICUS
🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡
Kittim meant Greeks & Romans. Macedonians weren't Ancient Romans! And it CLEARLY specifies from GREECE..
There are DOZENS of references to this in Maccabees....I noticed you conveniently left all these out 🥸
Every Foreign People that came into contact with the Macedonians referred to them as Greeks!
Persians
Syrians
Jews
Indians
Romans
Carthaginians
And Dozens More!!!
You Don't Know History! 🤡🤣
What ancient Palestine!? That name came into being centuries after the Greeks in 170 CE. And you're giving an academic lecture!?
Interesting observation about 1 Maccabees and "Seron" who desires, like Nimrod, to make a "name (shem)" for himself. Quote:
13 When Seron, the commander of the Syrian army, heard that Judas had gathered a large company, including a body of faithful soldiers who stayed with him and went out to battle, 14 he said, “I will make a name for myself and win honor in the kingdom. I will make war on Judas and his companions, who scorn the king’s command.” 15 Once again a strong army of godless men went up with him to help him, to take vengeance on the Israelites.END QUOTE
He is made to say what Nimrod said be the Babel incident. Perhaps an allusion by the author to Nimrod.
Calling Antiochus a "sinful shoot, netzer or נצר " is using Messianic language like "shoot of Jesse" does. I believe that the word is related to Nazarene.
Καὶ ἐγένετο μετὰ τὸ πατάξαι Ἀλέξανδρον τὸν Φιλίππου τὸν Μακεδόνα, ὃς ἐξῆλθεν ἐκ τῆς γῆς Χεττειείμ, καὶ ἐπάταξε τὸν Δαρεῖον βασιλέα Περσῶν καὶ Μήδων καὶ ἐβασίλευσεν ἀντ᾿ αὐτοῦ πρότερος ἐπὶ τὴν Ἑλλάδα.
And it happened, after that Alexander son of Philip, the Macedonian, who came out of the land of Chettiim, had smitten Darius king of the Persians and Medes, that he reigned in his stead, the first from Greece,
{Mac 1:1:1}KJV
καὶ ἐξῆλθεν ἐξ αὐτῶν ῥίζα ἁμαρτωλὸς Ἀντίοχος Ἐπιφανής, υἱὸς Ἀντιόχου βασιλέως, ὃς ἦν ὅμηρα ἐν τῇ Ῥώμῃ· καὶ ἐβασίλευσεν ἐν ἔτει ἑκατοστῷ καὶ τριακοστῷ καὶ ἑβδόμῳ βασιλείας Ἑλλήνων.
And there came out of them a wicked root Antiochus surnamed Epiphanes, son of Antiochus the king, who had been a hostage at Rome, and he reigned in the hundred and thirty and seventh year of the kingdom of the Greeks.
{1 Mac 1:10}KJV
καὶ τὸ ἱερὸν τὸ ἐν αὐτῇ πλούσιον σφόδρα, καὶ ἐκεῖ καλύμματα χρυσᾶ καὶ θώρακες καὶ ὅπλα, ἃ κατέλιπεν ἐκεῖ Ἀλέξανδρος ὁ Φιλίππου βασιλεὺς ὁ Μακεδών, ὃς ἐβασίλευσε πρῶτος ἐν τοῖς Ἕλλησι.
And that there was in it a very rich temple, wherein were coverings of gold, and breastplates, and shields, which Alexander, son of Philip, the Macedonian king, who reigned first among the Grecians, had left there.
{1 Mac: 6:2}KJV
καὶ τοῦ ἆραι τὸν ζυγὸν ἀπ᾿ αὐτῶν, ὅτι εἶδον τὴν βασιλείαν τῶν Ἑλλήνων καταδουλουμένους τὸν Ἰσραὴλ δουλείᾳ.
And to intreat them that they would take the yoke from them; for they saw that the kingdom of the Grecians did oppress Israel with servitude.
{1 Mac: 8:18}KJV
CRY BULGARO-Skiptartar!!! 🥸🤡🤣
This is a bit late in coming, but to all those cultures that came into contact with the Greeks: permit me to express my sincere and heartfelt condolences.
And finally the romans bring the Jews into a Greek world 😂
The only bad thing about Greeks is that they are no nazi's or facists acording to the Romans.
What the heck are you talking about? Nazism is a particular kind of German fascism. Moreover, fascism as a political ideology did not exist in ancient times.
The word Hellene was the name of a multi-ethnic pagan cult that Aristotle and Homer wrote lived in Dodona in Epirus, a nation that was were the modern nation of Ellas, Ellada or Greece, depending on the language.
Greeks and Jewish are hand in hand, just watch them dance
Well Jews didn't have music but loved Greek culture, many if not most wanted to be Greeks, but the clergy braini washed them and made them reject it or they would be with us today!!!!
Well that makes me think that Greeks belong to the same family as Semites. Its like two sides of a coin
Antiochus Epiphanes is the archetype of the Antichrist, a false Messiah. Interesting enough "Anti" means "after" and not "against" and is opposite "Ante."
The Maccabees reminds me of the story of Islam. Good stuff.
Anti originally meant "like" or "after-like", thats why it was mentioned at the time that there were many "
"Antichrists" already...which were people pretending to be "Like Christ"....
Learn History!!!
The speaker is wrong to claim "religious tolerance" on behalf of the Hellenes, as I quoted from 1 Maccabees Antiochus Epiphanes forced conversion to idolatry which is the cause of the rebellion.
He was emulating Alexander by desiring to be worshipped as a deity. This can not be considered an isolated incident as persecution of Monotheistic Jews occurred under other Kings as well.
They tolerated pagan degeneracy because they were degenerate pagans well known for pederasty and other vile deeds, in imitation of their sexually deviant gods.
Why do people continue to pretend that the era of Macedonian rule was something to glorify? The literature of first converts from the Hellenes to the Christians exposes what it was, Aristides of Athens, Justin Martyr, Tatian, Clement of Alexandria, the Homilies of Clement of Rome, all former Hellenes who became Christians and wrote polemics exposing their vile ideas.
Regarding Hellenization, according to Plutarch Alexander incorporated Persian customs into his Kingdom, but not Median because they were too "barbaric."
Plutarch, Life of Alexander book 4 of 7:
“45 1 From thence he marched into Parthia,77 where, during a respite from fighting, he first put on the barbaric dress, either from a desire to adapt himself to the native customs, believing that community of race and custom goes far towards softening the hearts of men; or else this was an attempt to introduce the obeisance 78 among the Macedonians, by accustoming little by little to put up with changes and alterations in his mode of life. 2 However, he did not adopt the famous Median fashion of dress, which was along barbaric and strange, nor did he assume trousers, or sleeved vest, or tiara, but carefully devised a fashion which was midway between the Persian and the Median, more modest than the one and more stately than the other. 3 At first he wore this only in intercourse with the Barbarians and with his companions at home, then people generally saw him riding forth or giving audience in this attire. 4 The sight was offensive to the Macedonians, but they admired his other high qualities and thought they ought to yield to him in some things which made for his pleasure or his fame.”
“Then for the first time the Macedonians got a taste of gold and silver and women and barbaric luxury of life, and now that they had struck the trail, they were like dogs in their eagerness to pursue and track down the wealth of the Persians.”
“Then… gold and silver and women and barbaric luxury of life,...”
Stop accepting everything European academics say about a culture that died because it was a degenerate and oppressive culture that fought itself as much as the lands they occupied.
The Romans kicked the crap out of the Macedonians and eventually signaled the death of paganism as a powerful force with the rise of Constantine.
Say what you will about Christianity but Christianity and Islam conquered paganism, which Israel never succeeded in doing, and Islam without compulsion which is forbidden by the Qur'an.
If you want to glorify a culture for tolerance, the Ummah of Mohammad ﷺ is what should be discussed.
Enjoy your Islam 🤡
WHY DON'T YOU SAY AD OR BC ? WHEN I WENT TO COLLEGE , THEY HAD JUST STARTED CHANGING THAT AND IT MADE ME ANGRY, JESUS IS LOVE HE IS NOT SOMEONE TO FEAR UNLESS YOUR SINFUL, ITS SOMEONE TO FALL IN LOVE WITH. JESUS DIDIN'T DIE FOR CHRISTIANS , HE DIED FOR THE WHOLE WORLD!!!!! TO SAVE YOU!!!!!
you are an idiot
Jesus died to save the Greeks from our insanity.
Yes. It was human fall and sin that required YESHUA's death in our place and He Ressuructed so that we can be with HIM in Heaven
Το ελληνικό πολιτισμό = φως του κόσμου
AMIN
Anyone who thinks in Greek loses the sense of reality and lives in the fairy tale. And that's a big mistake. This hesitant Greek way of thinking has dominated the world to this day, and therefore the world of fairy tales. Lies.
kwstas kwstadi - I don’t understand. Please explain.
@@aidonoxori 🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡
He keeps confusing "Hellenic" with "Greek."
7 13 it was one and the same at that time.
Greece is Hellas ΕΛΛΑΣ.. They still speak Greek from antiquity till today..
like confusing Spanish and hispanic but it actually means the same thing. hispanic ispania Spain it was called IS PA NIA H is silent, that was added translating from English. ALso Hellenic, its really Ellenic H doesn't really belong there. H is an e sound first of all in Greek but the translation caused the error.
7 13 True that. Greek is later and Latin and geographic specific, Hellenic wasn't an ethnicity. Tatian the Assyrian quit the Hellenic cult for Christianity as did Aristides of Athens who quit being a Hellene.
If it was ethnic that would be impossible. Greece is a modern nation that didn't exist until the 1800's. Scholars wish there was a literal Greece in ancient times but they should be saying Macedonia as Alexander annexed the land of modern Greece into the Kingdom of Macedonia..
History is lying.
This is SPARTA If you are talking about people from the modern nation created in the 1800's called Greece or Ellas, Ellada.
However in ancient times the Hellenes were a multi ethnic pagan cult that did not have a nation named Hellas or Greece. Alexander annexed the nations that were where modern Greece is today into the Kingdom of Macedonia. Alexander was Macedonian as were his successors. Their being Hellenes refers to their religious beliefs. I could provide numerous examples of Hellenes who were ethnic Syrians, Egyptians, Italians, etc. I can produce copious amounts of literature from the first people to convert from the cult of the Hellenes to Christianity, which would not be possible if Hellene meant ethnic Greek.
Stop caqlling the region Palestine. it is Israel. Palestine is a name created by the British from the Roman Palestina.
Academics are terrified of speaking ill of the ancient Hellenes who weren't Greeks as no such country existed until the 1800's, no Ellas.
As a matter of fact Aristotle agreeing with Homer places the Selli/Hellenes and Hellenic land in the town of Dodona in Epirus, which is like a neighborhood, near the Achelous river. Not even a whole city was named Hellas in the time of Aristotle and so Alexander, Aristotle doesn't speak as a members of the cult, oddly enough.
Nevertheless Plutarch claims that the Praesii of India were converted by Alexander personally, Indian Hellenes can't be called Greek.
Greek was used by the Romans and like Hellenes the origin of the word is unknown. Coincidentally the the theory that is from "Graii" in Aristotle is the same chapter in which he locates the Hellenic lands in Dodona, proving no such nation existed and that it was a mere tribe.
So if "Graii" is the source of "Greek" theoretically, it must be admitted that the Hellenes were a mere tribe of Dodona in the time of Alexander who, or Philip, annexed the land called Greece today into Macedonia. But Greeks today actually believe that Macedonia was part of a country that didn't exist until the 1800's.
The first Greeks of modern times came from the Roman Empire of the East which was conquered by the Turks, they continued to be called Romans until the idea to create Greece materialized and they were literally forced to adopt a false identity.
Nobody should take the scholarship from the Orientalist era that is the foundation of all modern history, seriously, anyone with access to the internet and a lit time can uncover the scam.
"Ancient" and "Greece" don't go together. America is older than Greece and the ancient Hellenes weren't an ethnicity or nation, they were a pagan cult who appeared late on the historical scene and borrowed their ideas from the Middle East passing them off as their own.
Also Herodotus says that the Hellenes were originally Phoenicians and Danaans, that is to say Canaanites originally or Aramaeans.
Ante-Nicene Christian literature is the best source of information on the Hellenic cult by people who converted from it. European historians turned it into a distinctly European ethnicity which is a flat out lie.
To avoid the fact that Herodotus has them crossing the Red Sea, the Phoenicians who became the Hellenes, the footnote claims that the Persian Gulf is meant.
Anyone with a map can see that it is impossible to cross the Persian Gulf into Athens or Greece. It is such an obvious lie.
Weird. The translator obviously wanted to avoid connecting the Hellenes with the Semites so lies and claims the Aryan Persians as the people who crossed the Red Sea that was actually the Persian Gulf.
When was the Persian Gulf called the Red Sea?
A Hellene was a member of a pagan cult according to ancient literature it was never ethnicity specific and therefore not exclusively European.
If a scholar uses the term "Hellenistic Jew" he does not understand what a Hellene was, a pagan.
You could not be a Hellene and a Jew and they hated each other. Clement of Alexandria is best expose' of what the cult was about and as a convert from the Hellenes should know. Like the Assyrian Tatian.
Simon Bargiora - “A Hellene was a member of a pagan cult according to ancient literature it was never ethnicity specific and therefore not exclusively European.” - Quid?!!! You’re obviously one confused puppy - what comic book did you get that pearl of wisdom from?
Is everything ok? You seem upset.
@@dorianphilotheates3769 So you see the first Christians, as I already explained, who spoke in the Hellenic language also wrote extensively against "The Hellenes" or "Greeks."
Regardless of their language or nation of origin men like the Assyrian Tatian were able to convert to the Hellenes and from the Hellenes to the Christians.
The Athenian Aristides of Athens also renounced any association or identification with the Hellenes.
He divided the world into 4 races or classes depending on the translation and they were Jew, Christian, Hellene and Barbarian
@@dorianphilotheates3769 Your problem that you share with many know-it-all types is that you learn everything from TH-cam and have never read anything much if at all from the ancient sources.
Yet you think that you are well educated and that anyone saying something not in agreement with what you read on Wikipedia and you have a tantrum.
What do you really know about the people called Hellenes?
@@dorianphilotheates3769 1 Maccabees 3:27
The Policy of Antiochus
“27 When King Antiochus heard these reports, he was greatly angered; and he sent and gathered all the forces of his kingdom, a very strong army. 28 He opened his coffers and gave a year’s pay to his forces, and ordered them to be ready for any need. 29 Then he saw that the money in the treasury was exhausted, and that the revenues from the country were small because of the dissension and disaster that he had caused in the land by abolishing the laws that had existed from the earliest days. 30 He feared that he might not have such funds as he had before for his expenses and for the gifts that he used to give more lavishly than preceding kings. 31 He was greatly perplexed in mind; then he determined to go to Persia and collect the revenues from those regions and raise a large fund.”
13 When Seron, the commander of the Syrian army, heard that Judas had gathered a large company, including a body of faithful soldiers who stayed with him and went out to battle, 14 he said, “I will make a name for myself and win honor in the kingdom. I will make war on Judas and his companions, who scorn the king’s command.” 15 Once again a strong army of godless men went up with him to help him, to take vengeance on the Israelites.
Oi Hellas = SE LAH
NO
HELLAS
=
Helios Las
Sun/Light Rock/Land
Sunny Rock Land or Land Rock of Light
Makes sense as Greece is both very Rocky & Very Sunny..
That is the Etymology
@@SpartanLeonidas1821
Merry Orthodox Christmas & New Year to You, and Yours.
Oi Kyrie
@@JeffPryor Thanks!
Whats Se Lah??
Alexander and his successors who popularized the Hellenic cult were Macedonians who married people from the conquered lands.
Calling them Greek is idiotic. How could you be so confused and be a scholar without lying?
And what were the macedonians if not a Hellenic tribe?
the videonaut Ethnic Macedonians who belonged to the pagan cult of the Hellenes.
You can argue but I can easily prove you wrong. Keep trying. Macedonians had their own language (not Hellenic) and annexed the several independent kingdoms that were where the modern nation of Greece is INTO the Kingdom of Macedonia.
the videonaut If anything people from the region of modern Greece were citizens of the Kingdom of Macedonia after Alexander and so Macedonian citizens.
the videonaut Here is why you are confused.
You are confused about the meaning of the word Greek/Hellene TODAY, which refers to a nation named Greece or Hellas.
Before the 1800's no such country existed.
Hellenes were not an ethnic tribe of people from the same country. It was a pagan cult.
This is why no Christian in antiquity could be a Christian and a Hellene and explains why people writing in Greek who were converts from the Hellenic cult wrote scathing polemics against their former co-religionists.
Aristides of Athens quit being a Hellene.
Tatian the Assyrian was, well, Assyria, and a convert from the Hellenes.
Clement of Alexandria.
"Hellenes" is translated "Heathens" in his "Exhortation to the Ellinas (Greeks/Hellenes) in the ANF series vol 2.
the videonaut Macedonians were people from Macedonia, or whose ancestors were Macedonian and so they are too, like Alexander or Ptolemy or the Seleucids.
Not all Macedonians were Hellenes. Not all Hellenes were Macedonian. Greece wasn't a country so wasn't an ethnicity or nationality and they definitely were not a "tribe" of Hellenes.
Macedonia was a country and a Kingdom.
Greece wasn't.
Because of the modern nation of Greece people assume that the ancient "Greeks" were a specific ethnicity. This is easy to prove fallacious.
"Hellenized" is an illegitimate term invented by a German scholar. Anyone who reads Clement of Alexandra's Exhortation to the Ellinas/Heathens/Greeks has absolute proof that you either were a Hellene, or you weren't. There was no such thing in reality as Hellenization as the culture of the Hellenes was borrowed from the people allegedly Hellenized.
I believe the appropriate designation for a non Hellene who is sympathetic to the Hellenic occupiers, a sympathizer or traitor.
If a Jew became a Hellene he ceased being a Jew as being a Hellene required things forbidden by the Tanakh. European historians desire to cast the Macedonian rulers after Alexander as Greeks is strange as the land today called Greece was annexed by Macedonians too.
So in reality the nations where Greece is today were Macedonian-ized.
Believing what Germans said they read about Greeks instead of reading Greeks themselves has been the source of many disastrous mistakes in human history
Macedonia was stronger militarily, but other Greek places were stronger culturally. And all of them obviously spoke the same language
Rome also conquered Greece but Greek culture prevailed (at least for some time)