I hope anyone who is considering taking a big loan to buy fancy equipment that's going to take a lot of work to feed it listens to John's sage advice. Start small, and be patient. The biggest investment you can make in life sits on top of your shoulders. I remember only 5-6 years ago watching John squatting on his apartment floor to operate some equipment, so the guy speaks from experience. A few years isn't a long time in the grand scheme of things and you'll learn so much in that time it sometimes all feels like a dream. John have you considered using spotting drills instead of centre drills for spotting holes? The spotting drills are specifically designed for that purpose (and obviously the centre drills are designed for, well, drilling centres for the lathe). I find the spotting drills are more accurate and rigid. A smart guy can also run them down deep enough to leave a chamfer on the hole after the hole has been punched through, so saves an op. I know a lot of people use centre drills, and obviously they work, but apart from the above advantages, the small ones have a nasty habit of snapping the tip off, and the broken tips can be a PIA to get out of the piece. The angles are also wrong for the following drill.
Great video John! I appreciate you sharing some insight into the business aspect of what you do, in this day and age of instant gratification, it's hard for any of us to have the patience to grow slow... Appreciate your wisdom.
It was really really great what you said about doing great work with what you can afford at the end there. Roaming around forums will deliver nothing but smug big shots who only tell you that you're wasting your time starting a business if you don't have a 1 ton, servo driven VMC.
Couldn't agree more with your talk at the end. I consider everything leaving my shop as a reflection of my shop and myself for that matter and I don't want it to anything out associated with me that isn't done to the best of my ability. I know I'm not perfect but I take pride in my work and it's nice to see others that do too.
I was glad to see you using a flex arm tapping tool. I have a different brand that I picked up about ten years ago and you couldn't get that unit out of my shop. They are fantastic for allot of operations but nothing is better for pattern tapping plates for special set ups. Great video, Thanks.
Tom Meeker Tom what other operations do you use this arm for? I've seen them around but never used one, and have a couple of Tapmatic chucks for tapping, so I'm interested in what else the arms could be used for. There is an article in a British magazine, out this month, on making one and it doesn't seem especially tricky.
Pete F The unit I have is manufactured by or at least branded as ARO. The arm is not difficult to make but if you do that the issue will be locating the inline pneumatic tapping tool. The tool is activated once you close the paddle trigger but it doesn't engage until you move the tool towards the work and retracts when you pull it up. Generally a good one of those "guns" will run you about $400-$500 US dollars for a new old stock sitting on someones shelf but retail is about $1300. If you watch Ebay for "tapping arms" sometimes you can find them removed from service for a few hundred dollars complete. I use it great deal for very small taps for robotics and animatronics. Once you get comfortable with it you can safely use very small taps. The tool is always at a 90 degrees to the table surface. As long as you clamp or hold the work so it is parallel to the worktable surface your taps always drive straight .
Pete F I use it for tapping, reaming, deburring, counter sinking, and occasionally even drilling holes with high number drill bits that dont hold in my press chuck very well.
Thank You for taking the time to describe how your job shop does business and the care and respect you show in helping your customer. Many will not take much time to dicuss this issue at all and sometimes actually seem to just be secretive. I have always believed that a part should look good to a machinist when made care being given to finishes and blends and so on. In fact I think it is important to make it better than asked for if it only takes a little bit more care. If we are dealing with someone not a expert we want it to appeal to them with how the part looks and functions. A novice can tell quality even if they are not schooled in our art.
Thanks for another great video! I just discovered Clickspring a couple of weeks ago and that guy is amazing! All that in a 6' X 12' shop! Thanks for giving him a mention.
We have parts we run that get splines formed in them. We used to turn and bore them on the lathe then run a broach through them. Now we pierce and draw them on the 200 ton press then the robot transfers them to the 400 ton press. I use the vibration press stroke where the ram moves up and down as it forms the part.
Could not agree more, do not go into debt, I have not officially opened the doors but I started purchasing lathe, mill and tooling 7 years before I retired from the army. I got a real nice setup and owe no money. Just go slow
Working for the other guy he worries about overhead, working for yourself you have to worry about the overhead. Figuring out what that overhead is by the hour is what is going to make the job profitable or not. Thanks for the video.
Quality video once again John. Thanks for your time in putting these out. Simple clear and concise instructions and advice, and watching a great machine put to work. What more could a man want!
this is inspiring. all the talk I hear people giving the tormach cnc's a bad rep, I watch this video and it shows how capable they are for a startup shop for the price.. it may not be a haas or fadal or the mazak i use at work but it looks like it works great for job shop small parts! on a side note... those tap heads are awesome, haven't seen one in quite some time.
John, This video is very encouraging and realistic. Great advice. Also thanks for the reference to TH-cam channel for Clickspring. I have been watching Clickspring for the last few months and enjoy the seeing crystal clear video for this type of work using affordable equipment. Paul
For any small batch job weather you receive a hand drawn part, Blue print, or a CAD file, I always send a sample piece so they can see if the part fits as it was given to you to produce.
In qty 1 I'd have just started making the part from a hunk of material on the Bridgeport. Even with CNC, just use conversational programming at the mill to drill, helical bore, do bolt array, and outside profile. The Centroid control really excels at this kind of work.
My thinking goes like this: You don't make any money on one-off parts like this, the more thought and preparation, instead of just *do*, the more time it takes.
John, McMaster-Carr has everything, and they do deliver fast...but in many cases there are lower cost options and it might be worth checking them out, especially if time isn't as critical. I've ordered from Speedy Metals and On-line Metals and gotten exactly what was ordered, usually cheaper than McMaster-Carr. Sometimes one is cheaper than the other on a specific material or shape, so it's worth checking both. Everything has arrived in good shape and well packed. Selection is pretty good too. Thanks for the vid! Don't know if I'll ever try job shop work, other than for friends, but it's good knowing more about it. There's no such thing as useless knowledge. -- Mike
Fantastic video as usual John, and great advice at the end. I sure hope someone tapes yours and Grimsmo's presentations at the Tormach open house event. Ciao.
I could form the part on a servo press if I had enough tonnage and a way to clamp all the way around. We have a 400 ton press I can form counterbores and pockets. But the parts have to be run through the machining center and run a fly cutter across them. The metal I move has to go somewhere
Chris from Clickspring does amazing work, his clock project has me watching them over and over. Difficult to think it's just a hobby to him Great video too man, CNC looks really fast, I bet it's s devil to learn though?
I have always used a "circular array" for those types of object. That is, assuming they are equidistant from the center bore (which it looked like these were). Quick and dirty. :-) I cant WAIT for them to tie InventorHSM(CAM) into the Fusion360. May happen, since that REALLY is what needs t happen. I dont remember which of the 2 videos you uploaded today, but I think it would be good seeing the tear down, cleanup, and rebuild. Tormach maintenance is in a few channels, but it is always good to see the different approaches! The thing I see going well with yours is that you always do the quick, dirty, but effective approach. :-D
This video is fantastic, thank you for sharing your knowledge. I'm envious of your f360 skills, especially all the cam setup stuff! I'm gonna need to hit the tutorials. It looks like an amazing tool.
normally your spotting drill is only meant for lathes, when you pick the part up with a live center or between centers. that's why it has a 60° angle For centering holes there are center drills with 90° tip angle. So you can center drill 0.1-0.2mm bigger than the hole is supposed to be and you dont even have to deburr/chamfer it afterwards.
matze1508 it's the other way round, spot drills have 90 deg points (or others) the centre drill is what is being used here. A centre drill is fine to use on a mill, and actually have better positional accuracy and finished hole diameter accuracy. If you centre and chamfer in one op (which I often do) you'll find that the drill cuts big at the top of the hole, also using a 90 deg spot will eventually knacker the edges of your drill if you're machining hard stuff. So spotting or centring is dependent on application. In ali I would always spot to a depth that would chamfer the hole.
About 4 years ago I was approached by a man whom my father was very good friends with, who happened to own a machine shop. I didn't know what to do in life in 8th grade, so while we were at dinner one night, the owner offered me a job at his machine shop as long a I did my proper schooling for precision machining. Fast forward to last year, I signed up at my local vocational school for Machine Technology, which I have completed my first year, and I'm on my second year. Second years have the opportunity to go on "Co-Op", which is basically a get-out-of-jail card to go work for half the day, which I took advantage of to go to my father's friend's shop, doing mainly manual work, but some CNC work as well. In a few days I'll be starting, and I'm quite nervous and stressed out about it. It's a big leap from work I've done before, and don't want to mess this up. Any tips or suggestions? What about tools for the job?
NYC CNC , Today went pretty well. First part of the day was helping put up new light bulbs in the shop, but I eventually was put on a bandsaw to cut some pieces for a project. I'd say the only stressful thing about today was the commute there! Super nice people and a "laid back" and personal atmosphere. I will be continuing on my co-op as well as to try to seek full time employment if everything goes A-Ok! Thank you very much on the words of encouragement, and I'll always hang onto them.
I do hobby CNC and manual mill and lathe work. The hand tools I use most are a set of wrenches, allen wrenches, and a digital dial caliper. I recently got, after watching this channel!) a set of allen-wrench sockets and a cordless electric ratchet. (They are sooo nice.) A dial indicator with a magnetic base and an edge finder are must-haves, that's pretty much it. You can learn a lot about machining from watching and asking questions. Historically this has been done, broom in hand, while sweeping the shop. Show up on time, volunteer for the crap jobs, wear your safety glasses religiously, carry a pen and notebook in your pocket, and write things down. You'll have a job in no time. Last piece of advice: Never burn your bridges. You might not want to work for or with a person again, but they might know a guy who you would want to work with.
I wanted to know if you could take a couple pics of your mod you did to the cold saw so I can replicate it. I love the videos bud keep up the good work.
John, Great video. This very helpful to me. Every body else, If you like John's videos and would like to support him, you can find him on patreon and offer support him there. He take his time to make these videos and It takes time. I have been watching him for years and he has been very beneficial to me. I also am learning CNC and not too many people go this far to help. Thanks
I was thinking about taking a CNC Machinist course at the local tech school. You really, really love this work. I didn't know there was such a network. Are there a lot of women in the business? This was just a wonderful video.
In the US, 97% of machinists are men. (BLS statistic, not made up.) If you like making things, take the course. "I made this" is an incredibly satisfying thing to say. Saying it as you pick up a useful tool you've used hundreds of times is literally the best.
You should use an actual spot drill versus the center drill you are using. You don't need the 60 degree to use a center on, so you end up just using a weaker tool for no reason. If you get a 90 degree spot you'll be able to feed faster and it will last longer. Great video!
Great video! Thank you! My only question is what wasn’t mentioned. Such as 1)determining correct tool stick out. 2) no mention of playing with the diameter offset on the finishing tool for the bore. (If it was a tight tolerance, for example ) Any help with this questions would be GREATLY appreciated Thank you
You want as little tool stick out as possible. The longer your tool is, the more prone it is to vibrating =) For doing a tighter tolerance, I'd use a rough pass followed by two finishing passes. Example (metric) Final hole size Ø20mm (+0.02 to +0.04) Roughpass with two finish passes of 0.05mm. Aiming for Ø19.8mm. Measure hole -> Might be Ø19.81mm Offset the program in the CAM to your desired tolerance, taking in consideration of the measure you just got from the first roughing pass. The reason for the two finish passes is to make sure you have NEARLY the exact same tool pressure every time.
Tip, use a 90 degree 3/4 spot drill instead and make your chamfer at the same time. Also reduces on snapped bits upon first entering part especially in stainless.
The Shear Hog can helix down into the part. Why didn't you thread mill the 1/4-20 side hole? Does the Tormach not do thread milling. Not being an internet jerk, just curious, as I'm considering a Tormach. Thank you
Hi John, thanks so much for your time in making this videos for all of us who are interested in CNC machining as a business alternative. Could you point out, to have a rough idea, how much would the customer be charged for the whole process of CAD/CAM and machining ? How´s the markup on raw material calculated ? Thanks again ! Regards from Patagonia !
Thanks for your reply ! So this piece would range between $120 and $200. So in the end it becomes sort of an "eyeballing procedure"... I´m trying to create a spreadsheet to rationalise pricing, taking CAD/CAM hours and material cost into the equation.
NYC CNC i sell steel at the moment for a company in Canada. im the guy you call for that 3x3 6061, i wouldnt let you walk away with only a 6" piece though haha maybe one day i will go get into it, your videos definitely inspire me to change what im doing. selling steel is fun and all but manufacturing just looks so fun, and incredible to watch.
People lack focus, been maching 15 years, ive never crashed or broken any indicators. Ive broken only handful of tools in that time. Always watch distance to go and focus, ive made mistakes but always see it before crash
Hi John. I have enjoyed a bunch of videos from your channel, and it has been an excellent introduction to CNC machining and really made me want to wander into this previously unknown world. I also like your Arduino projects, as I am also doing many Arduino and Raspberry Pi projects myself. Although the Tormach is my long term goal for a CNC machine, I plan to buy something cheaper to start with. One thing I'm sure you have mentioned, but that I cant remember or find is what type of fog style cooling system you use. What system is that? Thanks, and keep up the good work :-)
Maybe he has previous media experience? Then again I suspect you do too! Jay Bates woodworking has some excellent creative production and editing (and content).
You were doing it "wrong". For diametric design you should make sure that Objects like the center circle is black. Vlue indicates that not all dimensions are set. And use depth to object instead of entering the depth of the block. You can change the size of the block and the holes will always go through. In case you increase the depth of the block will the holes not go through when using finite numbers instead of selecting a face where to go to
NYC CNC awesome! Let me know if you want to try it out on some titanium or blade steel - I'd be happy to send you some! I have plenty of spare 4-40 taps, though mostly just "general purpose" ones
I am an a typical engineer always interested in costs and such. Can you work from a 3D DWG file or do you need a DXF' is your set-up cheaper for these? For the set up that you did how much time did you use looked like 10 min. on the video? What percentage of cost was set-up, materials, and manufacturing? Was this a single unit, and how many questions did you have on this project
While you were playing on the cad, my part would have been finished! Just program it at the machine in g code. It's just a basic part😂😂😂🤣🤣old school buddy👍🏼
It would have been trivial to make this using the conversational CNC on the Tormach too, but that's not the point. 20 minutes in cad lets you turn the customer's scribbles into a dimensioned PDF drawing you can email to them and get them to approve before you make the part. That is the kind of thing that will bring a customer back and they'll pay a premium for it.
That is simple, but thats how you learn the software. Programming G and M takes 1 typo and smash. In a year of practice he'll be faster than you and no crashes/mistakes
Have i ask u before if this kind of work is hard . ? . Maybe i need to talk the career school we have by us . Heres a funny story my dad went to this career school took a private i class lol
+Joe Sosnowski That certificate will be useless, unless you have a couple of GOOD SOLID years of actual programming and cutting with endmills and 3 axis machines. I'm not trying to be a jerk, just stating that I have almost 30 yrs experience with cnc's and have yet to see a shop place any value on a certificate. It's all about what you can do when you are on the job.
+gulch1969 just got a call back from a shop i dropped a resume off at. i think youre right. cert or not, u walk in entry level if u have no exp. i have plenty of hobby machining experience and time on a lathe at school, so im not completely useless
+gulch1969 i took courses on blueprints and schematics, machining, inspection instruments, tool geometry, grinding, turning, tapers. ive made a few parts from prints. But i still got so much to learn, its a little overwhelming
like gulch said...a certificate means nothing, its experience that makes you money. around here someone with little to no experience will be getting around 17 bucks an hour...IF you can even get in. most of the time you will be cutting stock and maybe squaring it. cnc "operators" (aka button pushers) get about the same. the only way to learn is to do it, i was lucky, i had a lot of manual experience and then jumped to cnc operating. i went and got advanced g code and mastercam certs while working as an operator and was allowed to modify and write programs there. left to go to a mold shop where i got tons of hands on with manual and cnc and also got wire and sinker edm experience...fast forward 5 years and i am now in the prototype shop of a major medical manufacturing company in charge of maintenance, modification, and manufacturing of wire and sinker edm production fixtures and custom prototype parts making much much more than 17 an hour. knowing g code is key to programming and operating, being able to troubleshoot a program on a machine on the fly makes you much more valuable. so to sum it up, "certification" in the machinist industry is measured in years of experience, not how many years your certificates took. its a "what have you done and what can bring to this company" world, especially in job shops, they don't have time to train usually and time is money. good luck, its a tough road to hoe and you WILL take your licks, learn from your mistakes and don't get discouraged.
Always remember to repent of your sins (sin is transgression of YAHUAH’S LAW: Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, & Deuteronomy) And Have Belief On YAHUSHA HAMASHYACH. HE Died and Rose three days later so that you can be forgiven of your sins! HE Loves you! Come to HIM!🙂
No good! -- QUESTION -- Where can we see real work being done on a CNC machine ie money paying client work (like Abom79 does on his manual lathes). Large NON SOFT ALUMINUM PRETEND "WORK",. Steel work for large pumps for the oil and gas industry, for example. See his "swedish meatbll pump" series. That is real work. Not one example of real work for any of these CNC machine channels. Seems like the "work" is convincing people to buy these machines rather than actually doing any real work.
Love the gopro mount for the vise. The flex-arm looks awesome for tapping. I use a drill press with a tap head but any time you can do something offline it frees up the machine for more money making things!
Would you ever consider doing a vlog at Thaddeus Stevens College of Technology located in Lancaster, PA? This would promote the Machine Tool and Computer Aided Drafting program at the college. I'm an alumni and would love to see you show up at the shop, as would the students! Here is our webpage www.stevenscollege.edu/prospective-students/programs-of-study(1)/machine-tool/machine-tool
It's very impressive watching you fly through the CAD and CAM like that.
Agreed. Definitely inspirational
I hope anyone who is considering taking a big loan to buy fancy equipment that's going to take a lot of work to feed it listens to John's sage advice. Start small, and be patient. The biggest investment you can make in life sits on top of your shoulders. I remember only 5-6 years ago watching John squatting on his apartment floor to operate some equipment, so the guy speaks from experience. A few years isn't a long time in the grand scheme of things and you'll learn so much in that time it sometimes all feels like a dream.
John have you considered using spotting drills instead of centre drills for spotting holes? The spotting drills are specifically designed for that purpose (and obviously the centre drills are designed for, well, drilling centres for the lathe). I find the spotting drills are more accurate and rigid. A smart guy can also run them down deep enough to leave a chamfer on the hole after the hole has been punched through, so saves an op. I know a lot of people use centre drills, and obviously they work, but apart from the above advantages, the small ones have a nasty habit of snapping the tip off, and the broken tips can be a PIA to get out of the piece. The angles are also wrong for the following drill.
Great video John! I appreciate you sharing some insight into the business aspect of what you do, in this day and age of instant gratification, it's hard for any of us to have the patience to grow slow... Appreciate your wisdom.
It was really really great what you said about doing great work with what you can afford at the end there. Roaming around forums will deliver nothing but smug big shots who only tell you that you're wasting your time starting a business if you don't have a 1 ton, servo driven VMC.
Couldn't agree more with your talk at the end. I consider everything leaving my shop as a reflection of my shop and myself for that matter and I don't want it to anything out associated with me that isn't done to the best of my ability. I know I'm not perfect but I take pride in my work and it's nice to see others that do too.
Thanks so much for posting this real world example, I would love to see more of this if possible. You rock!
I was glad to see you using a flex arm tapping tool. I have a different brand that I picked up about ten years ago and you couldn't get that unit out of my shop. They are fantastic for allot of operations but nothing is better for pattern tapping plates for special set ups. Great video, Thanks.
Tom Meeker Tom what other operations do you use this arm for? I've seen them around but never used one, and have a couple of Tapmatic chucks for tapping, so I'm interested in what else the arms could be used for. There is an article in a British magazine, out this month, on making one and it doesn't seem especially tricky.
Pete F The unit I have is manufactured by or at least branded as ARO. The arm is not difficult to make but if you do that the issue will be locating the inline pneumatic tapping tool. The tool is activated once you close the paddle trigger but it doesn't engage until you move the tool towards the work and retracts when you pull it up. Generally a good one of those "guns" will run you about $400-$500 US dollars for a new old stock sitting on someones shelf but retail is about $1300. If you watch Ebay for "tapping arms" sometimes you can find them removed from service for a few hundred dollars complete.
I use it great deal for very small taps for robotics and animatronics. Once you get comfortable with it you can safely use very small taps. The tool is always at a 90 degrees to the table surface. As long as you clamp or hold the work so it is parallel to the worktable surface your taps always drive straight .
Tom Meeker Thanks Tom, you mentioned that the unit is fantastic for a lot of operations, so does that mean you use it for things other than tapping?
NYC CNC Oh reaming, great idea, I hadn't thought of that one. ... just as long as we don't see those adjustable reamers again :)
Pete F I use it for tapping, reaming, deburring, counter sinking, and occasionally even drilling holes with high number drill bits that dont hold in my press chuck very well.
Thank You for taking the time to describe how your job shop does business and the care and respect you show in helping your customer. Many will not take much time to dicuss this issue at all and sometimes actually seem to just be secretive. I have always believed that a part should look good to a machinist when made care being given to finishes and blends and so on. In fact I think it is important to make it better than asked for if it only takes a little bit more care. If we are dealing with someone not a expert we want it to appeal to them with how the part looks and functions. A novice can tell quality even if they are not schooled in our art.
Lew Sou Wow the computer generation seems pretty complex. You breeze through it and make it look easy.
Thanks for another great video! I just discovered Clickspring a couple of weeks ago and that guy is amazing! All that in a 6' X 12' shop! Thanks for giving him a mention.
We have parts we run that get splines formed in them. We used to turn and bore them on the lathe then run a broach through them. Now we pierce and draw them on the 200 ton press then the robot transfers them to the 400 ton press. I use the vibration press stroke where the ram moves up and down as it forms the part.
Could not agree more, do not go into debt, I have not officially opened the doors but I started purchasing lathe, mill and tooling 7 years before I retired from the army. I got a real nice setup and owe no money. Just go slow
Working for the other guy he worries about overhead, working for yourself you have to worry about the overhead. Figuring out what that overhead is by the hour is what is going to make the job profitable or not. Thanks for the video.
Quality video once again John. Thanks for your time in putting these out. Simple clear and concise instructions and advice, and watching a great machine put to work. What more could a man want!
this is inspiring. all the talk I hear people giving the tormach cnc's a bad rep, I watch this video and it shows how capable they are for a startup shop for the price.. it may not be a haas or fadal or the mazak i use at work but it looks like it works great for job shop small parts!
on a side note... those tap heads are awesome, haven't seen one in quite some time.
Wait till you use a Okuma. THose 3 machines your work has are garbage
John,
This video is very encouraging and realistic. Great advice. Also thanks for the reference to TH-cam channel for Clickspring. I have been watching Clickspring for the last few months and enjoy the seeing crystal clear video for this type of work using affordable equipment.
Paul
For any small batch job weather you receive a hand drawn part, Blue print, or a CAD file, I always send a sample piece so they can see if the part fits as it was given to you to produce.
Super excited to see that FlexArm running!!! Another video well done sir!
In qty 1 I'd have just started making the part from a hunk of material on the Bridgeport. Even with CNC, just use conversational programming at the mill to drill, helical bore, do bolt array, and outside profile. The Centroid control really excels at this kind of work.
My thinking goes like this: You don't make any money on one-off parts like this, the more thought and preparation, instead of just *do*, the more time it takes.
John, McMaster-Carr has everything, and they do deliver fast...but in many cases there are lower cost options and it might be worth checking them out, especially if time isn't as critical. I've ordered from Speedy Metals and On-line Metals and gotten exactly what was ordered, usually cheaper than McMaster-Carr. Sometimes one is cheaper than the other on a specific material or shape, so it's worth checking both. Everything has arrived in good shape and well packed. Selection is pretty good too.
Thanks for the vid! Don't know if I'll ever try job shop work, other than for friends, but it's good knowing more about it. There's no such thing as useless knowledge.
-- Mike
Price isn't the only consideration all the time, but it's a frequent contender! ;-)
Fantastic video as usual John, and great advice at the end. I sure hope someone tapes yours and Grimsmo's presentations at the Tormach open house event. Ciao.
I could form the part on a servo press if I had enough tonnage and a way to clamp all the way around. We have a 400 ton press I can form counterbores and pockets. But the parts have to be run through the machining center and run a fly cutter across them. The metal I move has to go somewhere
Chris from Clickspring does amazing work, his clock project has me watching them over and over. Difficult to think it's just a hobby to him
Great video too man, CNC looks really fast, I bet it's s devil to learn though?
I have always used a "circular array" for those types of object. That is, assuming they are equidistant from the center bore (which it looked like these were). Quick and dirty. :-)
I cant WAIT for them to tie InventorHSM(CAM) into the Fusion360. May happen, since that REALLY is what needs t happen.
I dont remember which of the 2 videos you uploaded today, but I think it would be good seeing the tear down, cleanup, and rebuild. Tormach maintenance is in a few channels, but it is always good to see the different approaches! The thing I see going well with yours is that you always do the quick, dirty, but effective approach. :-D
This video is fantastic, thank you for sharing your knowledge. I'm envious of your f360 skills, especially all the cam setup stuff! I'm gonna need to hit the tutorials. It looks like an amazing tool.
This is our shop all the time! Onesies, twosies, one hundreds!!!!
Great vid dude, I really like your approach. 👍
Cool project. well said about the debt part.
normally your spotting drill is only meant for lathes, when you pick the part up with a live center or between centers. that's why it has a 60° angle
For centering holes there are center drills with 90° tip angle. So you can center drill 0.1-0.2mm bigger than the hole is supposed to be and you dont even have to deburr/chamfer it afterwards.
matze1508 it's the other way round, spot drills have 90 deg points (or others) the centre drill is what is being used here. A centre drill is fine to use on a mill, and actually have better positional accuracy and finished hole diameter accuracy. If you centre and chamfer in one op (which I often do) you'll find that the drill cuts big at the top of the hole, also using a 90 deg spot will eventually knacker the edges of your drill if you're machining hard stuff. So spotting or centring is dependent on application. In ali I would always spot to a depth that would chamfer the hole.
It leaves a big ass burr on the bottom that gets cut off in the lathe but its much faster than machining them and we can hold 50 microns.
Great video, John! Very good advice at the end.
About 4 years ago I was approached by a man whom my father was very good friends with, who happened to own a machine shop. I didn't know what to do in life in 8th grade, so while we were at dinner one night, the owner offered me a job at his machine shop as long a I did my proper schooling for precision machining. Fast forward to last year, I signed up at my local vocational school for Machine Technology, which I have completed my first year, and I'm on my second year. Second years have the opportunity to go on "Co-Op", which is basically a get-out-of-jail card to go work for half the day, which I took advantage of to go to my father's friend's shop, doing mainly manual work, but some CNC work as well. In a few days I'll be starting, and I'm quite nervous and stressed out about it. It's a big leap from work I've done before, and don't want to mess this up. Any tips or suggestions? What about tools for the job?
NYC CNC , Today went pretty well. First part of the day was helping put up new light bulbs in the shop, but I eventually was put on a bandsaw to cut some pieces for a project. I'd say the only stressful thing about today was the commute there! Super nice people and a "laid back" and personal atmosphere. I will be continuing on my co-op as well as to try to seek full time employment if everything goes A-Ok! Thank you very much on the words of encouragement, and I'll always hang onto them.
I do hobby CNC and manual mill and lathe work. The hand tools I use most are a set of wrenches, allen wrenches, and a digital dial caliper. I recently got, after watching this channel!) a set of allen-wrench sockets and a cordless electric ratchet. (They are sooo nice.) A dial indicator with a magnetic base and an edge finder are must-haves, that's pretty much it.
You can learn a lot about machining from watching and asking questions. Historically this has been done, broom in hand, while sweeping the shop. Show up on time, volunteer for the crap jobs, wear your safety glasses religiously, carry a pen and notebook in your pocket, and write things down. You'll have a job in no time.
Last piece of advice: Never burn your bridges. You might not want to work for or with a person again, but they might know a guy who you would want to work with.
I wanted to know if you could take a couple pics of your mod you did to the cold saw so I can replicate it. I love the videos bud keep up the good work.
John,
Great video. This very helpful to me.
Every body else,
If you like John's videos and would like to support him, you can find him on patreon and offer support him there. He take his time to make these videos and It takes time. I have been watching him for years and he has been very beneficial to me. I also am learning CNC and not too many people go this far to help. Thanks
One thing I noted is the four cap screws look to be backwards from what I expected.
I was thinking about taking a CNC Machinist course at the local tech school. You really, really love this work. I didn't know there was such a network. Are there a lot of women in the business? This was just a wonderful video.
In the US, 97% of machinists are men. (BLS statistic, not made up.) If you like making things, take the course. "I made this" is an incredibly satisfying thing to say. Saying it as you pick up a useful tool you've used hundreds of times is literally the best.
Ive never seen a woman machinist. Ive seen on youtube female operators but i think they are just pressing start
John,
I've noticed lately that you haven't been using your tool changer. Is something wrong with it?
Great video as always.
great advice at the end save money start small.
Thanks John for this.
You should use an actual spot drill versus the center drill you are using. You don't need the 60 degree to use a center on, so you end up just using a weaker tool for no reason. If you get a 90 degree spot you'll be able to feed faster and it will last longer. Great video!
Super cool video. Thank you! What might be the time and price for this particular work???
Great video! Thank you! My only question is what wasn’t mentioned. Such as 1)determining correct tool stick out. 2) no mention of playing with the diameter offset on the finishing tool for the bore. (If it was a tight tolerance, for example )
Any help with this questions would be GREATLY appreciated
Thank you
You want as little tool stick out as possible. The longer your tool is, the more prone it is to vibrating =) For doing a tighter tolerance, I'd use a rough pass followed by two finishing passes.
Example (metric)
Final hole size Ø20mm (+0.02 to +0.04)
Roughpass with two finish passes of 0.05mm. Aiming for Ø19.8mm.
Measure hole -> Might be Ø19.81mm
Offset the program in the CAM to your desired tolerance, taking in consideration of the measure you just got from the first roughing pass.
The reason for the two finish passes is to make sure you have NEARLY the exact same tool pressure every time.
Tip, use a 90 degree 3/4 spot drill instead and make your chamfer at the same time. Also reduces on snapped bits upon first entering part especially in stainless.
Hi boss
what an awesome video! Very helpful.
I just started my company so it was interesting to listen you,!!
Hows your co doing?
Another great video! Who makes your cooling system?
I need to tell you/all Surfcam of the 1995 version puts this all behind. this all is very slow in programing, but it does get it done.
will you be video taping that how to small business with the Tormach and putting that on TH-cam?
Great video :-) Very practical and clean work :-)
The Shear Hog can helix down into the part. Why didn't you thread mill the 1/4-20 side hole? Does the Tormach not do thread milling. Not being an internet jerk, just curious, as I'm considering a Tormach. Thank you
excellent video! learned lots! thanks
Hi John, thanks so much for your time in making this videos for all of us who are interested in CNC machining as a business alternative.
Could you point out, to have a rough idea, how much would the customer be charged for the whole process of CAD/CAM and machining ? How´s the markup on raw material calculated ?
Thanks again ! Regards from Patagonia !
Thanks for your reply ! So this piece would range between $120 and $200.
So in the end it becomes sort of an "eyeballing procedure"...
I´m trying to create a spreadsheet to rationalise pricing, taking CAD/CAM hours and material cost into the equation.
Such an awesome video
How speed / feed calculate everyjob??
Is speed / feed is auto generation on cam software??
awesome channel seriously makes me want to be a machinist.
NYC CNC i sell steel at the moment for a company in Canada. im the guy you call for that 3x3 6061, i wouldnt let you walk away with only a 6" piece though haha
maybe one day i will go get into it, your videos definitely inspire me to change what im doing. selling steel is fun and all but manufacturing just looks so fun, and incredible to watch.
Its fun when you start, untill you gain experience and realize how many idiots you'll have to deal with
Nice job, thanks for sharing
So roughly how many hours of labor did you quote the customer for this particular job that required CAD, CAM and fabrication?
So... how many Haimer tips have you broken so far? I've broken one and it's not a great feeling :(
People lack focus, been maching 15 years, ive never crashed or broken any indicators. Ive broken only handful of tools in that time. Always watch distance to go and focus, ive made mistakes but always see it before crash
Awesome channel man!
Hi John. I have enjoyed a bunch of videos from your channel, and it has been an excellent introduction to CNC machining and really made me want to wander into this previously unknown world. I also like your Arduino projects, as I am also doing many Arduino and Raspberry Pi projects myself.
Although the Tormach is my long term goal for a CNC machine, I plan to buy something cheaper to start with. One thing I'm sure you have mentioned, but that I cant remember or find is what type of fog style cooling system you use. What system is that?
Thanks, and keep up the good work :-)
Nice video enjoyed every minute
Until Clickspring came along you had no rival at all for production values, you are both producing fantastic videos.
Maybe he has previous media experience? Then again I suspect you do too!
Jay Bates woodworking has some excellent creative production and editing (and content).
So what was the customers cost on this one-off. ?
You were doing it "wrong".
For diametric design you should make sure that Objects like the center circle is black. Vlue indicates that not all dimensions are set.
And use depth to object instead of entering the depth of the block.
You can change the size of the block and the holes will always go through. In case you increase the depth of the block will the holes not go through when using finite numbers instead of selecting a face where to go to
so does the program input the g codes as you make the design and select the commands?
that flex arm looks amazing - does it work with small stuff like 2-56 through 6-32?
NYC CNC awesome! Let me know if you want to try it out on some titanium or blade steel - I'd be happy to send you some! I have plenty of spare 4-40 taps, though mostly just "general purpose" ones
John just call me before you run it! I'll help you dial the tap holder in! You won't have a single problem! #ScoutsHonor lol
silentqueue Yes they work great for the small taps.
rotokid wwa
Great channel!
I will do a screen cast for ya on selecting Z and X axis I might redo that part as well just for fun
daniel lyall autode.sk/1OBczcz quick selecting of Z and X
autode.sk/1OBc6XQ part done the way I would do it misted the side hole
NYC CNC you probley new that anyway it might help some of your view`s
I am an a typical engineer always interested in costs and such.
Can you work from a 3D DWG file or do you need a DXF' is your set-up cheaper for these?
For the set up that you did how much time did you use looked like 10 min. on the video?
What percentage of cost was set-up, materials, and manufacturing?
Was this a single unit, and how many questions did you have on this project
If you are doing stuff in 3d, step is the standard.
out of curiosity how much did that job cost?
Okay this is way cool, it's combining my nack for model creations and my interest in metal working, currently looking for apprenticeships.
awsome video!!
half inch drill best drill
wow what your doing is more like what a engineer does than what a cnc operator/programmer does is not it?
venito camelo Not really. This is how machining is done now. You should see what I can do with a 5 axis.
No, that is the simplest part. Machinists make our world and "engineers" take the credit
While you were playing on the cad, my part would have been finished! Just program it at the machine in g code. It's just a basic part😂😂😂🤣🤣old school buddy👍🏼
It would have been trivial to make this using the conversational CNC on the Tormach too, but that's not the point. 20 minutes in cad lets you turn the customer's scribbles into a dimensioned PDF drawing you can email to them and get them to approve before you make the part. That is the kind of thing that will bring a customer back and they'll pay a premium for it.
That is simple, but thats how you learn the software. Programming G and M takes 1 typo and smash. In a year of practice he'll be faster than you and no crashes/mistakes
+NYCCNC John Saunders! ! your busted. . 13:04 you hit the part twice with the malet of location. .. you swore you only strike once!!!... haha
Do you still sell the target trailer hitch plugs?
NYC CNC we can they be purchased. Thanks for the reply
Why would you use a CAD to program something so basic
Definitely a job for the Bridgeport, but I'm not gonna judge.
Have i ask u before if this kind of work is hard . ? . Maybe i need to talk the career school we have by us . Heres a funny story my dad went to this career school took a private i class lol
Kasargod shopil ale vena joli indengil pareyo please
Good stuff
Solidworks is pricey but works way better
what's that part to?
Pfft where's the helical ramp on the counterbores? :)
Cool!
NYC CNC Its really nice to know what really happens in machine shops.
***** Approved must by perfect job :)
cnc job
Thumbs up!
***SHEAR.***
***HOG.***
Not hog shear, lol
$$$ Design (CAD: .5 hrs), set up (select, cut, mount: .3 hrs), machine (.4 hrs) = 1.2 hrs @ $60 = $72.00 plus material ???($30.00 plus tax $2.50) or $32.50, sub-total $104.50 plus shipping ($18.00) total: $122.50. WEEEE
Hello boss
Easy to make money
Like.
how much money does a certified cnc operator make?
+NYC CNC im going to school for a certificate in CNC manufacturing technology.
+Joe Sosnowski That certificate will be useless, unless you have a couple of GOOD SOLID years of actual programming and cutting with endmills and 3 axis machines. I'm not trying to be a jerk, just stating that I have almost 30 yrs experience with cnc's and have yet to see a shop place any value on a certificate. It's all about what you can do when you are on the job.
+gulch1969 just got a call back from a shop i dropped a resume off at. i think youre right. cert or not, u walk in entry level if u have no exp. i have plenty of hobby machining experience and time on a lathe at school, so im not completely useless
+gulch1969 i took courses on blueprints and schematics, machining, inspection instruments, tool geometry, grinding, turning, tapers. ive made a few parts from prints. But i still got so much to learn, its a little overwhelming
like gulch said...a certificate means nothing, its experience that makes you money. around here someone with little to no experience will be getting around 17 bucks an hour...IF you can even get in. most of the time you will be cutting stock and maybe squaring it. cnc "operators" (aka button pushers) get about the same. the only way to learn is to do it, i was lucky, i had a lot of manual experience and then jumped to cnc operating. i went and got advanced g code and mastercam certs while working as an operator and was allowed to modify and write programs there. left to go to a mold shop where i got tons of hands on with manual and cnc and also got wire and sinker edm experience...fast forward 5 years and i am now in the prototype shop of a major medical manufacturing company in charge of maintenance, modification, and manufacturing of wire and sinker edm production fixtures and custom prototype parts making much much more than 17 an hour. knowing g code is key to programming and operating, being able to troubleshoot a program on a machine on the fly makes you much more valuable.
so to sum it up, "certification" in the machinist industry is measured in years of experience, not how many years your certificates took. its a "what have you done and what can bring to this company" world, especially in job shops, they don't have time to train usually and time is money. good luck, its a tough road to hoe and you WILL take your licks, learn from your mistakes and don't get discouraged.
$12/hr
Always remember to repent of your sins (sin is transgression of YAHUAH’S LAW: Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, & Deuteronomy) And Have Belief On YAHUSHA HAMASHYACH. HE Died and Rose three days later so that you can be forgiven of your sins!
HE Loves you! Come to HIM!🙂
I really hate the way you modeled that
No good! -- QUESTION -- Where can we see real work being done on a CNC machine ie money paying client work (like Abom79 does on his manual lathes). Large NON SOFT ALUMINUM PRETEND "WORK",. Steel work for large pumps for the oil and gas industry, for example. See his "swedish meatbll pump" series. That is real work. Not one example of real work for any of these CNC machine channels. Seems like the "work" is convincing people to buy these machines rather than actually doing any real work.
Love the gopro mount for the vise. The flex-arm looks awesome for tapping. I use a drill press with a tap head but any time you can do something offline it frees up the machine for more money making things!
Seriously, such an awesome video once again. Thanks for taking the time to make it.
Would you ever consider doing a vlog at Thaddeus Stevens College of Technology located in Lancaster, PA? This would promote the Machine Tool and Computer Aided Drafting program at the college. I'm an alumni and would love to see you show up at the shop, as would the students!
Here is our webpage www.stevenscollege.edu/prospective-students/programs-of-study(1)/machine-tool/machine-tool
I never heard of that program. I use SolidCam, CorelCAD, metalsoft, and Enroute.