Foxbody HCI: Aluminum Cylinder Heads VS. Iron GT40 Cylinder Heads - Why I Bought AFR 165's?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 22 ส.ค. 2022
- On this episode, I explain the reasons as to why I chose to got with Aluminum AFR 165 cylinder heads as part of my HCI top end rebuild on my 1992 Fox body Mustang LX Notchback. As I prepare to get into a GT40 top end rebuild on my 1991 Foxbody Mustang GT convertible, it's reminded me of the reasons as to why I decided against using GT40 P cylinder heads.
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📽 Top 10 Reasons to buy a Foxbody NOW!: • Top 10 Reasons to Buy ...
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Your vids are amazing brother. So passionate and so well spoken and informative.
Thank you.
Fox bodies for life:)
Thanks so much my friend!!!
On my old 87 LX 17+ years ago, I swapped my 3-bar GT40's out for some AFR 165 heads on my Cobra intake TFS1 cam setup... immediately jumped from 268 rwhp to 312 rwhp and dropped 3.5 tenths in the 1/8 mile. Aluminum heads cost so much more nowadays, but theres no denying the power difference and weight drop.
Well said sir!!! That’s awesome 👍
It becomes a snowball.... Bigger fuel pump, injectors+, regulator, TB+, MA+, bigger exhaust, tune, traction suspension, gears, tires, etc. $$$$$ ouch.
If it's just a street car, what's the power worth $ if you only use it 2% of the time? 🤔😎
Yup well said
@@hotrodray6802 well sort of right but really not, TB MAF are really not a restriction so could pass upgrading but what you described is needed to pull any power out of these with a performance head, to take advantage of any upgrade head will need exhaust intake and exhaust opened up no need for a tune beyond what you can do, if you decide to go aluminum heads you might squeak by with stock injectors but 24lbs are good insurance, no need for gears or tires, or fuel pump, you could easily use stock fuel regulator. The stuff you are saying wont hurt and will help but not needed. I had a fully upgraded 306ci then 332ci and on my 100% street car, used the added power a lot and to me the car was a more enjoyable street car over the stock, guess to each his own.
Nice video. It’s always useful to hear the thought process and reasoning behind the choice of components. Anyone thinking of doing a similar job can then make their own decisions.
Good to hear you considered the power band of the cam. So many would go for “bigger is better”. 👍
Thx buddy! Yes I agree
Amazing video as always brother!! I have to say you have one of the most beautiful and cleanest notches out there sir!!
Awe thanks so much buddy! That makes all the hours Ive lost/spent worth it 😆🍻👍
Thanks for sharing your knowledge/experience. I completely agree about maintaining the low end torque. We feel it every time we take off. That's why I saved up for a twin screw supercharger for my 91 LX. Feels so good. BTW - I appreciate the care you take on your work. Beautiful result.
Thank you so much!!! And yes, good point!
Love the new intro Brother! Your experience is a great example of going down the rabbit hole and successfully clawing your way out! Great video!! 💯🤜🏾🤛🏻
Thx pal! It took me longer to edit that damn intro then it did the whole video 😂. I’m trying to get better with this Drone before the big trip across the country!
@@KASLCustoms I hear ya! Funny how the shortest of videos take the longest time to edit....😀I am looking forward to seeing the footage you capture on your trip! 💯🍻
So true! 👌
Bro AFR heads hands down money well spent on my 306Ranger N41 worked GT40P heads ported and polished she ran good nice little street motor HP 👍🏻👊🏻
Hey buddy!!! Yeah I’m definitely glad I went with them too 👍
Buddy guy holy moly that engine bay is proper! Dig the subtly.
Thank you!!!!
I went down the same rabbit hole as you and a lot of other people have done. Pulled the engine out of my 87 vert just to dress up the engine bay. That turned out to be a full tear down of the motor with Trick flow heads, comp cam. Replaced everything in engine bay with new. Then removed all control arms, new bushings, paint whole underneath of car. Then after that which into a full restore of the whole car including the interior. All of that while going through these crazy times trying to find parts which everyone is out of or long wait times.
😂😂😂 you’re in good company buddy!
Ricsha91, I would guess that with all of that work an upside would be that now you won't encounter any or many breakdowns for years to come! At least 3 years or 36,000 miles hopefully!
Lol so far so good 🤞
Getting fancy with the intro editing 😎👍
Hahaha Steven Spielberg eat your heart out! 😉🤣🍻
Great work bud enjoy your video 👍
Thank you!
I learned my lesson years ago don’t mess with a cheap lower performing head go right to the best flowing head you can to start with and wont regret it. I upgraded my stock engine with all bolt ons at once and got a great deal on ported E7s with 1.94x1.6 vlvs, car was fun but when I eventually went TFS twisted wedges I was disappointed that I didn’t go this route at first, went from 268rwhp to 306rwhp and seat of pants was amazing! When I get back into 5.0s heads are first thing I’ll upgrade!
I did the exact same thing. My throw out bearing was noisy. So pulled the Trans... then the 302 engine to "freshen it up"... and now I'm dropping in a alum headed 331 damn that throw out bearing got expensive lol
🤣🤣🤣! It’s so true buddy!
Hot rodding is about doing what you can with what you have to work with. If iron heads are what you have, you can work with them. Many years ago, I had the chance to get a pair of F3ZE castings ('93 Cobra) complete with factory roller rockers for $500. I had some minor port detailing done but that was all I could afford at the time. Combined with a '93 Cobra intake and shorty headers it went about 5mph faster in the quarter than stock, but only 3 tenths quicker. The low end wasn't great. A few years later I got a deal on some used AFR 165s. I paid $1000 for them but they needed a bit of work, and the machine shop bill came to $700. They had screw in studs so add about $300 for a set of 1.72 rockers. I also added a set of 1 5/8 long tube headers when I did the head swap. I only gained 2mph over the Cobra heads, but shaved 6/10s off of the ET due to a big gain in "power under the curve" with the AFRs. That's all with a stock cam. I haven't found an aftermarket cam that I like. I can't accept an engine that bucks @1500rpm in 4th. My engine pulls steep hills at that same rpm in 5th with the World Class T5 and 3.55s and I like to cruise back roads with lots of hills. Back road cruising is what I built the car for, and it's hard to beat the stock cam for that. It is the best cam for the way I use the car.
Well said my friend. Thank you for sharing 🙏👍
AFR165 is a great head that performers well for its size. Stepping up to AFR185 even better. Got an XE270hr camshaft in a 331 with a vortech supercharger
Agreed! Very nice!!
Another benefit to the aluminum heads is the weight savings on the front end of the car. I also used the comp xe266hr cam, but used 1.7 rockers since it was going into a 390 windsor.
Yes good point 👍
That little bit of weigh savings the car will not notice it.💯
Aluminum heads on an already lightweight fox is definitely worth it. Anyone who says otherwise don’t know what they’re talking about 💯
The engine bay is really pretty looking! Just found a survivor 91 hatch in WV for 3500. Already has an E cam and a few goodies but as winter sets in gonna do a full rebuild on everything.
Thx bud! Right on. Good luck on the project!!
Bro your right! Same thing happened to me I got a set of gt40s from the bone yard . I called the machine shop because I wanted them freshen up new guides, seals pressured checked you know the deal. They wanted 2 thousand i almost shit so I bought a valve lapping tool some compound did it myself 💪and she runs mint I’m a technician by trade and I was very disappointed/insulted with the machine shop ..
So crazy hey!? They’re going to run themselves out of business!
@@KASLCustoms I guess we have to realize that most cars built the last 20 yrs are throw away engines. Nobody is getting work done so the shops are struggling. 🤔🤔
Yeah that’s a very good point!
Crazy crazy machine shop coin, wow!! So I got my explorer intake and p heads from junkyard delivered to my house for $300. Spent if I remember right another $350 to have heads checked and done at a speed/machine shop. Already had the springs and cam. Sent my cam card info in to them and they set the heads up. Been sitting on those heads for probably 3 years now lol. Then about 2 months ago I had the chance to buy some nice used Edelbrock Performer RPM aluminum heads with the 1.9 valve. Cost was the same as what I purchased the Explorer intake/P heads for. So I jumped on it. Of course I need to spend some money and get springs and probably have machine shop check and lap the valves. At this point I don’t thing I’ll actually ever do anything too or for the engine. Just collect parts lol. I figured o could always sell either sets of heads. But then again I love collecting parts
hey buddy! LOL - its funny how these situations work out some time. But to your point, I don't think you will ever lose money on the pieces you currently have on the shelf 👍
I really don't know how machine shops work in Canada, but an automotive machine shop in the US would not survive charging that much. I literally just dropped off a jeep 4.0 head to be cleaned, inspected, tested, valves and seats ground and seals replaced for 200, they've been in biz for over 40 yrs, dealt with a bunch in Michigan as well never prices that high either. If possible find another shop, most I've dealt with are reasonable, it's the wait that'll kill ya sometimes lol.
Yeah that’s a super drastic difference!
I cut my teeth in the automotive machine shop industry right into a 27yr career in today's inflation economy those numbers are way out of reach only cost that high machinist wise will be full ported "cast iron" heads and or full darton symees sleeves in 8 cyl that is a ton of work you could buy new long block for 2500
Great Job and a Great video.. I also went that route with a set of AFR 185 / 58cc heads. Can I ask you. Where did you find the medal cover for the cold air intake on the fender wall?
It came with my CAI 👍
I know, my comment was a little long. I guess what I was trying to say is that AFR rocks. Get them if you can afford them. Even their entry level heads will support 500hp of you get everything else right. I've had mine for a dozen years and have never regretted getting them.
I need to apologize at all. I’m glad you took the time to share your experience! Again, well said and thank you for taking the time 👊
All of my buddies had 5.0s with GT40s with flowmasters. Everybody's car sounded the same lol.
Is there a way to tie in GT40 Heads by the firewall to the heater core? Water pump-> Heater Core -> GT40 Heads T Split -> Water pump. Is it doable?
Great video, and awesome information about your reasoning for the aluminum heads. I’m wanting to swap out my C5AE 289 heads out for a set of aluminum heads. I haven’t made up my mind on which heads I want. I’m running a stock bottom end F4TE 351w in my 85 SVO Mustang, with a 750 Holley carb. I’m positive that just about any of these aftermarket heads will run better than what I have now.
Thank you! Yes, I think you’re right. Even the “cheaper” after market options have a lot more tech factored into them then the OE head designs 👍
The TFS TW always kicked ass
Yes very true
Hi Gary. First off, is that your drone work in the opening sequence? If so, wow, pretty good, it really shows off your coupe. Also, are you going to pull the engine to do the heads and other upgrade work or leave it in the car? I'm seriously all in on this job and am looking forward to the videos showing how to make it all work out. Thanks. Bill.
Hey buddy! Yes it is. My brother gave me his old drone so I can get some footage on the trip across America to foxtoberfest! I’ve been trying to practice up 😂.
As for the motor pull, I think I will pull it so I can clean it all up and not be bent over the fenders for long periods of time 👍
24 yrs ago I got a set of big valve race ported 289 heads. Still sitting here 😳 guess I shouldn't justify a big expenditure, so I guess I'll just put em on with the Exp intake etc. 1.7 rockers. E cam ?
Might do BigDogs someday LOL 😆😆😆
Hahahaha right on!
$2500 for a hone job?!?!? That shop is insane! You can buy a complete refurbished short block and shipped to your door for under $1600usd. I think last time I paid to have a motor done, I paid under $1000 to have the cylinders honed, the mains line bored, and deck surfaced.
NICE! That is such a solid build! I forget, did you have it tuned after?
Thx buddy! Yes I did. He burned me a custom tune as well 👍
Hey brother I love your attention to detail I took 8 years building a candy blue and dark blue paint 1988 saleen 347 with all the goodies and ice cold a/c . I'm currently working on a 1987 blue asc McLaren mustang and thoughts on that
Hey buddy! Thank you very much 🙏. My OCD won’t let me do it any other way 😂.
Those are two awesome cars! I’d love to see some pictures 👌
Love my afr 220 on my sbe 302
Nice!
40 degrees ,that's t shirt and shorts weather guy!
😂
10:35ish mark; there’s a home grown guy, he’s Paul PSP too, out of Toronto.
👊👊👊
But what sucks now is aluminum heads cost an arm and a leg anymore. Nowadays, the best bang for you buck/reasonably priced heads are either Edlebrocks E-Street heads or AFR's Enforcer heads if you are looking to upgrade. I just cannot justify spending 2-2,500+ for a set of heads. I mean, you can get lucky and snag a used set off of ebay or facebook for cheapish i guess, but back when I was like 12 or 13, i remember seeing trickflow heads would set you back like 1200-1300. What happened??
I remember those days too. I don’t like admitting it either but nothing is cheap any more
Hello Gary. I am from Kamloops and was wondering if you have any recommendation for a shop in the Okanagan area that is good to do a tune on my 90 5L. Recent HCI install. Thank you for your time
Hello sir! Thank you for reaching out. Please send me an email (Listed in my about page on TH-cam) and I will give you a hand 👍
What paint was that you used on the valve covers? Did you dress up that cold air intake pipe also? If so what did you do to it?
It’s called cast blast. It’s their “iron” color 👍
I keep seeing folks say the roller rockers on a 5.0L are "Noisy" - could never figure out how, but did you notice any noise?
Thx
I’ve always known fully rollerized rockers to be slightly noisier than non roller rockers.
Hey, do you have any good convertible top shops in the OK Valley that you trust? Having a hard time finding someone who can do it in the fraser valley. Got a 89 GT.
Shoot bud, it’s pretty tough to find anyone that will take the time to do old cars like this right…
I'm in the process of replacing head gaskets. Should I replace the stock heads with new aluminum heads if I leave the cam and intake stock? If so what heads would be a direct bolt on?
Hell yes and with any head you need to check valve to piston clearance and pushrod lengths so not sure you could any is direct bolt on. If stock head you might get by with TF 11Rs but AFRs are probably the way to go. Heads and cams are biggest power makers IMO so if you are into the engine this far have the funds then do it, will you get max power from it no but as time and funds allow in future upgrade other components.
Yeah what is the the color of those valve covers I’m really digging them
Thx bud. The paint is cast blast and the color is “iron”
I have to say that I have earned 4 different Fox body mustangs that I bought brand new starting in 1987. With that said I have never seen an engine compartment as nice as yours. Don't get me wrong almost all my friends and I raced our cars every weekend at track. And of course we had to work on them. So you really did not see oil in our engine compartment you just saw regular parts that changed because of the winters using salt on the roads.
I was going to say something about machine shops. It looks like a lot of the comments on here are pretty much the same. Have no idea what a machine shop could do to justify $2,000 to home or oversize and engine block. Matter of fact you can buy a brand new crate motor for less than that here in the United States.
All my mustangs have all been long gone yet I do still have my 1990 Ford F-150 4x4 with the 5.0 engine. I'm getting ready to start restoring my truck. It's not all beat up it just has rusted fender Wells like most for pickups. The motor is definitely coming out. I'm on the fence if I want to rebuild what I have taken mine I'm not worried about serial numbers matching. I could just as easily by a new one and stick it in there.
I really enjoyed your video I most definitely gave you a big old thumbs up and hit the subscribe button. Look over for watching more of your videos.
Thank you very much sir! That really means a lot to me - especially considering the immense amount of time that I have tied up in making the engine bay look presentable... LOL. Thanks again for the kind words sir!
I've owned several foxbody's and I've always wondered something... Why do some of the blinkers blink normal speed and some are extremely slow?? And how do you make them not be so slow?? Maybe a video on it?? Also I agree with you on this head debate. Thanks for the videos!!!
Hahahaha that is hilarious that you mention this. I too wonder the exact same thing as my coupe is a quick blinker and the very is dead slow
@@KASLCustoms I know it's weird... Wonder what could be the difference?
Im guessing that they were different blinker manufacturers and the current it takes to heat up the blinker filament must be different
@@KASLCustoms Could be?? Thanks
Hey bud, cool video!
What temperature can the AFR heads handle? And how hot can aluminum heads get before you should start worrying?
Thx sir! In all honesty, I’m not entirely sure? Why do you ask?
@@KASLCustoms my car get a little on the hot side and was just wondering when to start worrying, lol
@@benitofimo8198 215* f coolant temp won't hurt a thing.... Except power.
Ahhh gotcha. I don’t think you would have anything to worry about. My car runs hot in stop and go traffic on really hot days too 👍
@@hotrodray6802 Maybe I should have given a little more info, lol, I have trick flow heads and 10 lbs of boost, 215 f is safe then? I’ve gotten to 210 and I started to worry. Thanks for your info
Hey, I'm about to get some AFR 165 for my cobra. You have any tips on cleaning my edelbrock intake manifold. Its been sitting for 20 plus years. Thanks
Nice! Yes I do - get yourself a couple jugs of pinesol and soak it for 24 hours. I know, it sounds crazy but trust me 😉
@@KASLCustoms Thanks, ordered the 165s today, they were on sale, can hardly wait.
Awesome! Your going to love them!! 💪
Tfs stage 1
Wolverine 1087
If I wanted to get a mild Aluminum heads, with everything on my fox stock. What would be a good aluminum head with a stock cam?
However much money you have in your bank account will help you decide 😅
same exact question i have for my 88 lx 5.0... I just picked up a egr upper and lower gt40 intake and was going to do a old school set up with either gt40p heads but now i think for the price of gt40 heads;
alum heads may be the better choice.
You're leaving our the part about the machine shop were they said full teardown and reassembly right? Just had my 351w done in Vancouver for 500. 2500 gets clicks but your bsing
Oooooo I went down the rabbit hole lol… no going back now lol…….. but I do have a question about my 68 mustang coupe, i pulled my 289 out it needs a rebuild… but I have a 302 with GT40 heads, 360hp on dyno, I have a rebuilt C4 transmission, would the tranny hold up ??? I’m reading a lot of conflicting blogs about this
Thanks
I think it would be totally fine 👍
@@KASLCustoms thank you sir !! I can email you pictures once I get the front shock assembly’s done
Yes please do!
Back in the day AFR heads were too expensive for me. Factory ported heads. Not sure if they are premium priced compared to 20 years ago. I ended up buying a set of Edelbrock Performer 5.0 170cc.
Yes they are still up there in the price department...
Pretty jealous you’re going to foxtoberfest
Oh buddy I’m so pumped!!!
How did you do your valve cover clearance and was it hard?
with a rotary tool and a carbide bit. No it wasn't bad at all
Thanks man hope all is well xoxo
Anytime bud 👍
If you can afford them, or justify the expense aluminum heads are a better choice. That's not to say the GT's are junk as they will support up to 350 crank hp without machining, but you'll have to update everything around them to get there and the smallest alum head will be at least 50 hp ahead at that point.
Special headers are needed for the p heads as well
Thx buddy 👍
@@KASLCustoms Before I went coyote I was thinking upgrades to the pushrod.
Lol then you just said: “to heck with it, let just instal a 450 hp stock power plant!” 🤣💪
@@KASLCustoms It was either Stroker or Modular. Coyote was way better choice then Terminator so went Coyote. No regrets.
I bet! Can’t wait to see it
Do you recommend doing a 5 lug swap? Been debating on it
Honestly It all depends on what wheels you want to run. I’m considering leaving my 91 Vert 4 lug and just doing a rear disc conversion
@@KASLCustoms thanks for the advice
@@alltorque415 anytime pal!
But can the AOD do burnouts with the 4 lug?
I prob have everyone beat in the need for a going over my mom nought my 95 gt in 99- 2000ish it was stored every einter, im a chevy guy and wanted it for sentimental reasons when she passed in 2014 her secretly dirtbag husband snagged it then in 2020 he moved and abandoned it, i found it found paperwork and i made it mine now, but it has around 150k and the only thing thats been done engine wise is a harmonic dampener back in 2012ish and thats it... It still has the original plugs and wires!!!! Beat that lol, it actually runs fecent but you can tell it needs plugs, ive had plugs just havent changed them ive just put it off because i had a plug snap off on me in my 2010 caravan a few years back and im terrified anout taking these 29 year old plugs out where i daily it. It had around 200k+ on its oem plugs lol it ran like garbage yhe new plugs smartened it right up. Talk about a big plug gap!
Did you ever dyno the car?
Yes I did and it was just shy of 300 on a Mustang brand Dyno
2500.00 WTF machine shops usually charge 150-200 to bore an 8 cyl
Yup
Wow 2500 ! I don't know the difference in Canadian money and u.s. I spent 280 bucks u.s. back in October. That was hone all cylinders. New cam bearings . Plus heads redone . Valve job . And milled and new freeze plugs . Done the conversion in US dollars. It's 1917 bucks . Still way to high .
Yeah I know right. It’s crazy up here… especially considering what you paid 🤯
@@KASLCustoms yea that was all of it . Hot tanked engine and heads and checked them all . All I needed was a hone job for cylinders . They done it all for 280 bucks that's also changing valve springs . I put trick flow double valve springs and retainers for my cam that's 533/544 lift . They also said if it had needed bored it was 8 dollars per cylinder which still isn't bad . I'm in north east Tennessee area
Holy 💩! It would be cheaper for me to drive my stuff down to Tennessee! 🤣🍻
@@KASLCustoms yea with that much difference in money .
There is only a million cobra intakes out there
Garaj
Not to be a armchair quarterback but you should have changed the pistons to bump the cr to make more heat in the combustion chamber. 12.5 to 1 it wont ping with pump fuel. The car doesn't weigh much. Research that,it works. Ben Alameda Racing.
great video...afr 185 would have given you a better future.....and give up nothing more.
Knocking 50lbs off the nose of the car is big too.
Yessir good point 👊
It is becoming really difficult to find a shop that is technically educated enough to allow you to upgrade your mustang Foxbody right 'no one suggests 'eng details have to be calculated by owner and if your not a mechanic car sits in the garage with 6 figures in a saving acct
Yes this is so true my friend. You could always send it up to me 😁
All that ball hone did is make your cylinder walls look like the Atlantic ocean
Gt40's are only worth it if you get them for a steal. If they need machine shop work or rebuilt. They are simply not worth it unless you are going for a original look. ALuminum heads are night and day better than gt40's. The gt40's are great if you can get them for under $300 where you can put some springs on em and go but anything more than that. It isnt worth it in my opinion
Thanks so much for sharing 👍
@@KASLCustoms For sure, not saying GT40's are bad but I see people buy them for $250-400$ then sink another $700 into them. You can always find a nice aluminum afr or trickflow or edelbrock heads on corral for $1500 that run circles around a basic GT40 lol
This is true
cast iron heads are junk they don't flow good and they're heavy. I'm going with aluminum all day long. and a 351 WStroker once I got my first 351 I never looked back at a 302 ever again