This is the BEST yet example that debunks the "flammability" of R32. I will be using this as a reference in a local editorial and will point our local fire Marshall to this video demo. Thank you.
Relavent for HVAC tech but not homeowner. Place a furnace pilot light in a large box and slowly let R32 into the box. That's what it's like in our home. HOW EASY IS R32 TO IGNITE? For a gas mixture to ignite, 3 specific conditions must be met simultaneously. 1. The concentration of the flammable gas must lie between the Lower and Upper Flammability Limit (LFL and UFL) for the particular gas. For R32 this is between 14% volume (300 grams/m3 ) and 29% volume (620 grams/m3 ). It should also be noted that 14% concentration of any foreign gas in air is the accepted oxygen deprivation safety limit. Furthermore, a 14% concentration is well above the acute toxicity exposure limit for common historical refrigerants like R22 (5.9%) and R134a (5%). 2. The second requirement is that the flammable gas mixture must have a velocity lower than 3 to 4 times its burning velocity (6.7 cm / sec for R32). In the case of a wall mounted split system, because R32 is heavier than air any leaked refrigerant leaving the unit will exceed 4 times its burning velocity due to gravity within 40 cm. Furthermore, measurements and computational fluid dynamic modeling has shown that even a rapid R32 leak of 1000 grams in one minute will not present a flammable mixture outside of the wall unit due to dilution and the falling velocity of the refrigerant. 3. The third requirement for ignition to take place is an ignition source of sufficient energy. Unlike common flammable gases such as propane, R32 cannot be ignited by the usual static electricity we experience. Tests by independent laboratories in Japan and America1 have demonstrated that sparks from light switches or contactors in residential appliances do not have sufficient energy to ignite R32. Therefore, the most likely source of ignition in a residential application is an open flame such as a candle, combustion heater or gas cook top. Consequently, if an accidental release of R32 refrigerant occurs from a cylinder or piping, the velocity will be too high to ignite near the release point and the concentration will be too low where the velocity becomes low enough. So, ignition of R32 is difficult even if it is attempted intentionally
I noticed the gas regulator so that was 7 to 11 inches wc not 250 psi and up. What happens when the compressor fails and blows the electric terminal out the side of the compressor. Seen that happen 2 times since1 1982
An HVAC tech friend once told me about a time he was working on an R22 system and the terminals blew out of the compressor. The result was flames shooting about 6 feet out the top of the unit when the refrigerant and oil mixture ignited! He had no way to know what gas was actually in it, but we wonder if someone filled it with propane or some other flammable gas.
@@Steve410811 Even if the flames weren't actually 6 feet (I wasn't there), the fact that the unit caught fire when the terminals blew out of the compressor still proves my point.
Real question: if this is true, then why is Goodman/Daikin (who is mainly pushing the new usage) putting sensors and control boards on the new R32 evap coils to detect potential for flame? I've been in HVAC since 2006 and I've NEVER seen a unit need a sensor to detect anything like that. Now it's needed. Hmm...
This video can lead to misunderstanding that R32 is quite save, the fact is R32 systems have killed several people already. When there is leak and air into the pipe, and compressor is working - EXPLOSION!
@@futurewitness2862 It would be very rare to happen but depending on the install it could. Older refrigerants you can do internal flare connections its not allowed with r32 for that reason it must be a brazed or crimped connection. Which is a little strange considering natural gas which will go boom can have internal flare connections however the pressures of natural gas below 5kpa is not high pressure plus you would smell it before it went boom. r32 has no smell.
@@HonchHeado dam now i got one more thing to worry about. But thanks you for letting me know atleast I'll be careful of this unit. too bad i have to stay here for work and you know how asian people are cant trust their products specially in their country.
If it's a single component refrigerant you can do it both ways. Liquid charging is faster but if you charge too quickly you will "slug" the compressor. Liquids cannot be compressed so you run the risk of compressor damage. Liquid charging also increases oil pumping. So you want to charge in bursts with pauses in between to allow oil to return to the compressor. It's also easier to overcharge with Liquid as opposed to vapor. Blended refrigerants should not be vapor charged; you must charge in the Liquid phase only.
R134a doesn't become more flammable from being run through the system, it becomes more flammable when it's mixed with oil. Any refrigerant will burn when mixed with oil, especially in a mist.
Absolutely 100% misleading propaganda. Like some use r-32 to put out other flames. Please show what happens when leak is at operational pressure with oil in it against an open flame. Only good thing id that this will start wedding out the diyrs and untrained techs of when they start putting torches on this equipment for say unnsweating a joint. GOODBYE
Any refrigerant used will have different results when mixed with oil in the compressor, the mix of low GWP and increased efficiency is all a plus. Any gas we end up using will have a potential to be dangerous even if its just oxygen depletion in a small area. This is why trained professionals should be working on this equipment. I don't buy the excuses of flammability when we have NG and LP in our homes all ready and in giant volumes, compared to a residential unit holding all of 5 pounds.
The NG or LP in your home you intentionally burn to cook or heat. In a HP it is a closed DX cycle and uses refrigerant to transfer energy from in to out or the other way around. Using the refrigerant class in AC or refrigeration (like your refrigerator) is defined by ASHRAE 34 and ISO 817 A1 class non-flammable, non-explosive (since 1928), A2L flammable and can be explosive (R32, R454B) or A3 explosive/highly flammable and toxic (R290, R600a). Classes A2L or A3 have a limited charge of ISO standards. A simple question why do you want to use flammable or explosives in your home when there are over 90 A1 classes and more efficient? Why there are International standards covering which class?
@@neilafram663 The key is the closed loop DX. The unintentional introduction of A2L is no different than unintentional introduction of an A3 such as LP regardless if we use it for domestic water or cooking or conditioning the home it needs to be in a safe manner. The gasses chosen today are for the low global warming potential and taking efficiency into consideration as well as economic sense and other metrics. R32, R1234yf(a great HFO but costly and poor efficiency) and R454b (a blend of the 2) are the most prevalent in my industry and with the HC's used with limited charges and gasses such as R32 with less concern due to higher LFL and auto ignition temperatures. This is the same conversations we have had from the R12 transition to R500, R502 and R22 and again the transition to R410A. Need is the mother of innovation and a lot of great things are happening. We need more refrigerants and choices for application like we need different flavors of coffee, colors of clothing, car manufactures and music. We don't really need all the choices but yes we do.
Deceptive video? shows a comparison with butane R260 which NOT used in the mass-produced split system!!!? R32 is FLAMMABLE end off and should NOT BE USED in residential or public buildings. Only NON-FLAMMABLE like R410A should be used which is available and will be for at least another 30 years PLUS new LGWP NON-FLAMMABLE is and will be available... so why do you want to sell it, have it or use it? ASK the inventor Chairman of Daikin? and his cartel other manufacturers ;) I challenge them with my 40 years air conditioning experience which helped Daikin (before Mr. Inoue) to make them no. 1 and proud of it ;))). Neil Afram F M.Inst.R.
What exactly are you afraid of? Clearly this stuff is quite hard to ignite as shown in this video and many others, it's not like a spark is going to ignite it and blow the house up if it leaks.
@@averyalexander2303 the video shows the gas at atmospheric pressure... who knows how flammable it actually gets when the gas is under pressure in the system.
@@ananth218Canada Realistically it doesn't matter how flammable the refrigerant is when under pressure, certainly it would be more flammable if mixed with compressed air as any refrigerant/oil mix would be. But under normal conditions the refrigerant is not flammable inside the system as there is no oxygen, which is needed for combustion to occur. There have been cases of AC units exploding if a huge amount of air enters the system, but those cases are not limited to R32 systems and are caused by technician error rather than a flaw in the refrigerant. The concern with flammable refrigerants is how likely a fire or explosion is if it leaks out of the system, and at this point it has been proven that R32 is not much of a hazard when handled properly.
This is the BEST yet example that debunks the "flammability" of R32. I will be using this as a reference in a local editorial and will point our local fire Marshall to this video demo. Thank you.
Relavent for HVAC tech but not homeowner. Place a furnace pilot light in a large box and slowly let R32 into the box. That's what it's like in our home.
HOW EASY IS R32 TO IGNITE?
For a gas mixture to ignite, 3 specific conditions must be met simultaneously.
1. The concentration of the flammable gas must lie between the Lower and Upper Flammability Limit (LFL and
UFL) for the particular gas. For R32 this is between 14% volume (300 grams/m3
) and 29% volume (620
grams/m3
). It should also be noted that 14% concentration of any foreign gas in air is the accepted oxygen
deprivation safety limit. Furthermore, a 14% concentration is well above the acute toxicity exposure limit
for common historical refrigerants like R22 (5.9%) and R134a (5%).
2. The second requirement is that the flammable gas mixture must have a velocity lower than 3 to 4 times its
burning velocity (6.7 cm / sec for R32). In the case of a wall mounted split system, because R32 is heavier
than air any leaked refrigerant leaving the unit will exceed 4 times its burning velocity due to gravity within
40 cm. Furthermore, measurements and computational fluid dynamic modeling has shown that even a
rapid R32 leak of 1000 grams in one minute will not present a flammable mixture outside of the wall unit
due to dilution and the falling velocity of the refrigerant.
3. The third requirement for ignition to take place is an ignition source of sufficient energy. Unlike common
flammable gases such as propane, R32 cannot be ignited by the usual static electricity we experience. Tests
by independent laboratories in Japan and America1 have demonstrated that sparks from light switches or
contactors in residential appliances do not have sufficient energy to ignite R32. Therefore, the most likely
source of ignition in a residential application is an open flame such as a candle, combustion heater or gas
cook top.
Consequently, if an accidental release of R32 refrigerant occurs from a cylinder or piping, the velocity will be too
high to ignite near the release point and the concentration will be too low where the velocity becomes low
enough. So, ignition of R32 is difficult even if it is attempted intentionally
The reality is...it's mixed with flamible poe oil, when burned it's napalm
And this comment is the second best thus far. TRUTH!
I noticed the gas regulator so that was 7 to 11 inches wc not 250 psi and up. What happens when the compressor fails and blows the electric terminal out the side of the compressor. Seen that happen 2 times since1 1982
2 times in the last what 40 years? Is that what you're saying?
An HVAC tech friend once told me about a time he was working on an R22 system and the terminals blew out of the compressor. The result was flames shooting about 6 feet out the top of the unit when the refrigerant and oil mixture ignited! He had no way to know what gas was actually in it, but we wonder if someone filled it with propane or some other flammable gas.
@@averyalexander2303ive never seen that happen. Shoot out 6 feet . Hes lying
@@Steve410811 Even if the flames weren't actually 6 feet (I wasn't there), the fact that the unit caught fire when the terminals blew out of the compressor still proves my point.
So many thank, for your knowledge 👍🙏👏👏👏
Great video and love the music
Real question: if this is true, then why is Goodman/Daikin (who is mainly pushing the new usage) putting sensors and control boards on the new R32 evap coils to detect potential for flame? I've been in HVAC since 2006 and I've NEVER seen a unit need a sensor to detect anything like that. Now it's needed. Hmm...
Cool demo!
Very inpormative videos
You're forgetting, the gas mixes with compressor oil, do that test, propane and oil...you get napalm
The video cuts out right before it shows soldering or brazing Flame
This video can lead to misunderstanding that R32 is quite save, the fact is R32 systems have killed several people already. When there is leak and air into the pipe, and compressor is working - EXPLOSION!
how to identify r32 leak
@@365_Gifts_Official Specific R32 leak detector and dye injector. This refrigerant is a sham.
@@HonchHeado can the indoor unit explode or worse leak r32 and ignite like a napalm?? Got a gree in my room and smoke there too
@@futurewitness2862 It would be very rare to happen but depending on the install it could. Older refrigerants you can do internal flare connections its not allowed with r32 for that reason it must be a brazed or crimped connection. Which is a little strange considering natural gas which will go boom can have internal flare connections however the pressures of natural gas below 5kpa is not high pressure plus you would smell it before it went boom. r32 has no smell.
@@HonchHeado dam now i got one more thing to worry about. But thanks you for letting me know atleast I'll be careful of this unit. too bad i have to stay here for work and you know how asian people are cant trust their products specially in their country.
I liked these test looks like it might put some fires out, .not bad Flammable at all.
What is the proper correct way when you are charging r32 when split type ac is running is it liquid or gas?? Hope u answer my question..
Doesnt matter, liquid is faster but you have to be careful feeding it not too fast to the suction line
If it's a single component refrigerant you can do it both ways. Liquid charging is faster but if you charge too quickly you will "slug" the compressor. Liquids cannot be compressed so you run the risk of compressor damage. Liquid charging also increases oil pumping. So you want to charge in bursts with pauses in between to allow oil to return to the compressor. It's also easier to overcharge with Liquid as opposed to vapor. Blended refrigerants should not be vapor charged; you must charge in the Liquid phase only.
Wow
Let it run through a system and change over for a week or so and then test it. 134 is slightly flammable one is been ran through a system.
R134a doesn't become more flammable from being run through the system, it becomes more flammable when it's mixed with oil. Any refrigerant will burn when mixed with oil, especially in a mist.
when you need to sell your products by misleading people
Absolutely 100% misleading propaganda. Like some use r-32 to put out other flames.
Please show what happens when leak is at operational pressure with oil in it against an open flame.
Only good thing id that this will start wedding out the diyrs and untrained techs of when they start putting torches on this equipment for say unnsweating a joint. GOODBYE
Any refrigerant used will have different results when mixed with oil in the compressor, the mix of low GWP and increased efficiency is all a plus. Any gas we end up using will have a potential to be dangerous even if its just oxygen depletion in a small area. This is why trained professionals should be working on this equipment. I don't buy the excuses of flammability when we have NG and LP in our homes all ready and in giant volumes, compared to a residential unit holding all of 5 pounds.
The NG or LP in your home you intentionally burn to cook or heat. In a HP it is a closed DX cycle and uses refrigerant to transfer energy from in to out or the other way around. Using the refrigerant class in AC or refrigeration (like your refrigerator) is defined by ASHRAE 34 and ISO 817 A1 class non-flammable, non-explosive (since 1928), A2L flammable and can be explosive (R32, R454B) or A3 explosive/highly flammable and toxic (R290, R600a). Classes A2L or A3 have a limited charge of ISO standards. A simple question why do you want to use flammable or explosives in your home when there are over 90 A1 classes and more efficient? Why there are International standards covering which class?
@@neilafram663 The key is the closed loop DX. The unintentional introduction of A2L is no different than unintentional introduction of an A3 such as LP regardless if we use it for domestic water or cooking or conditioning the home it needs to be in a safe manner. The gasses chosen today are for the low global warming potential and taking efficiency into consideration as well as economic sense and other metrics. R32, R1234yf(a great HFO but costly and poor efficiency) and R454b (a blend of the 2) are the most prevalent in my industry and with the HC's used with limited charges and gasses such as R32 with less concern due to higher LFL and auto ignition temperatures.
This is the same conversations we have had from the R12 transition to R500, R502 and R22 and again the transition to R410A. Need is the mother of innovation and a lot of great things are happening.
We need more refrigerants and choices for application like we need different flavors of coffee, colors of clothing, car manufactures and music. We don't really need all the choices but yes we do.
Still more dangerous than R410A
Газ гарючий хотят преподнести как не гарючий
True but out of ignorance (Japanese, and Chinese manufacturers who have no standards or regulations, cause they are workshops to bash equipment!!)
Deceptive video? shows a comparison with butane R260 which NOT used in the mass-produced split system!!!? R32 is FLAMMABLE end off and should NOT BE USED in residential or public buildings. Only NON-FLAMMABLE like R410A should be used which is available and will be for at least another 30 years PLUS new LGWP NON-FLAMMABLE is and will be available... so why do you want to sell it, have it or use it? ASK the inventor Chairman of Daikin? and his cartel other manufacturers ;) I challenge them with my 40 years air conditioning experience which helped Daikin (before Mr. Inoue) to make them no. 1 and proud of it ;))). Neil Afram F M.Inst.R.
What exactly are you afraid of? Clearly this stuff is quite hard to ignite as shown in this video and many others, it's not like a spark is going to ignite it and blow the house up if it leaks.
@@averyalexander2303 the video shows the gas at atmospheric pressure... who knows how flammable it actually gets when the gas is under pressure in the system.
@@ananth218Canada Realistically it doesn't matter how flammable the refrigerant is when under pressure, certainly it would be more flammable if mixed with compressed air as any refrigerant/oil mix would be. But under normal conditions the refrigerant is not flammable inside the system as there is no oxygen, which is needed for combustion to occur. There have been cases of AC units exploding if a huge amount of air enters the system, but those cases are not limited to R32 systems and are caused by technician error rather than a flaw in the refrigerant. The concern with flammable refrigerants is how likely a fire or explosion is if it leaks out of the system, and at this point it has been proven that R32 is not much of a hazard when handled properly.
R32 has a GWP of 3 times less, that is why they use it.
My residential house has natural gas connected to it and running through it. Should I have it removed because it’s flammable?