This era consist of spots you can see coming a mile away. If 1 person gets knocked out of the ring you know the aggressor who's inside is gonna do a swan or suicide dive. And some of the spots have no logic other than looking cool.
it isn't even the move. it is the lack of effort to make it look like it fits or can organically happen. Bret Hart did a dive in 1995 on Jerry Lawler and it didn't look like Lawler was waiting to catch him.
Paul is one the nicest wrestlers you could meet in person. He was wrestling at an Indy promotion here in Austin around 2015-2016 for a few shows. Got to meet him a few times after these shows. At the bar where the show took place the upper deck was kinda a semi locker room for all of the wrestlers. You could go up there and talk to the wrestlers after the show and most everyone open to talking. Talked to ACH, Ricky Starks, Jerry Lynn and several other local Texas guys on multiple occasions. Paul was cool to talk to and was definitely down to chat. He even let my friend and I hold and take a pic the tag belt he held there at the time. You could tell he genuinely appreciated the fans.
Alot of marks in the business. You shouldn't care what the internet thinks, go and put out a good match and get yourself over safely. Meltzer has never wrestled a match, booked a promotion but then how does he decide what works and what doesn't in professional wrestling when he's just a mark like the rest of us are.
@Phenomenal Ace I disagree. His opinions were always horrible. How does someone rate Jericho/Nick Gage 4 stars because of the crowd, but rate Rock/Hogan 3 stars and ignoring the crowd reaction.
followed by another roll-up then a counter roll-up then another counter roll-up, then both wrestlers get up, pause and do anime style fight poses and every audience member claps in unison.
As someone who kind of likes AEW? I have to agree. They also need to learn how to end matches. Too many false finishes. My other complaint is that almost everyone does the same moves. Got to spice that shit up.Superkicks and suicide dives get old after a while.
I really did try with AEW. I did. And honestly there are wrestlers there I enjoy like MJF, Jungle Boy, Thunder Rosa, Mercedes Martinez, FTR, Proud and Powerful, and Wardlow to name a few. But the booking is overall goofy and nonsensical, and the matches come across as video game matches. Too many flips, not enough substance, not enough psychology, not enough selling. But at least Good Ol' JR seems like he's about ready to say "fuck this shit" on commentary and walk away outright.
@@williampittman4560 MJF vs Wardlow is more or less the only substantial, massively fun and impressive, continuous, sensical fued that makes sense and is continuous
It’s a lazy spot honestly, garnering a cheap pop and giving a false bravado to the fact they have no clue about any wrestling psychology and how to tell a STORY.
So much respect and love for Paul. One of the realist dudes I ever met. Saying exactly what the boys are feeling but can't ever say for fear of future employment. 🤜🤛💯🎯
I don't blame him, this wrestling "style" has taken over both WWE and AEW and causes the matches to barely resemble what I used to watch for years, not to mention how people in these companies have forgotten how to tell a story that makes sense, making the products even worse.
It's not on RAW and Smackdown like you think it is. You're painting all wrestling with a broad stroke and you're incorrect. That type of wrestling is AEW's style. It's video game wrestling. It's nonsensical stunts strewn together with weapons and furniture. Anyone with any body shape or size can be competitive with anyone else. Brian Cage's physique and size are looked at, by AEW fans, like skins are in video games. It's not necessary. In WWE, size does matter. Kofi didn't get to be competitive against Lesnar. Ricochet isn't having 50/50 matches with Randy Orton or Drew McIntyre. WWE is still silly, but it's Gone With the Wind compared to AEW.
@@al5306 It's more subtle on Raw and Smackdown, but there's still a lot of the indie/video game/New Japan influence even there, the very frequent su1c1de dives and top rope moves to the outside definitely happen WAY more often than they should, the overuse of the superkicks and Canadian destroyers is much worse on NXT and especially AEW and AEW has a bunch of wrestlers who's stuff looks like dogsh1t because it looks super choreographed and phony so it's taken to 11 there, but do not delude yourself into thinking that started in AEW, that "video-gamey" modern style was first showing its ugly head back when the indie "darlings" mostly from ROH were starting to show up on WWE's TV, so as far back as 2012.
I hate seeing people get beat with a finisher then someone else comes to do a run in and attack the winner and the person who just lost jumps up to help the person running in. I could see if they lost due to a roll up but come on man sell that person's shit
Ruthless aggression era guys are the last breed of natural entertainers even a small simple move is beautiful to watch. they can act and not marks for themselves
Another thing that is bizarre about AEW besides the zero selling are the Referees trying to get themselves over. Like that Aubrey Edwards chick. Literally needs to get her shit in. Look at this bs she does on aew. th-cam.com/video/JjmTk2sYGkI/w-d-xo.html
Thank you i been saying this i see her and im like wtf is she doing she doesnt stop waving her arms or counting with her hands she literally doesnt stop moving its distracting
Referees are meant to get the stars over, not the other way around...now there is a Forbes interview with this nobody referee who is only going in business for herself and the hardcore AEW marks who are the only people that know about her are all calling her the most over and legendary referee to have ever stepped foot in the business which is complete bullshit. Aubrey has never worked at any other major promotion and hasn't been a referee that long so still needs to pay her dues but Tony 'I'm lucky to be born to a billionaire daddy' Khan doesn't care about any of this...it's embarrassing, can't even focus on the match at all because of her and the AEW marks would cheer for anything, including an empty ring for the entire show and still kiss Tony's ass. That's why I just can't watch AEW on top of all the other stupid booking going on and wrestlers who are marks for themselves doing a half-assed job, can't cut promos properly even and 10 man stables because they need to find a way to feature their bloated roster on the limited TV time they have because Tony's too afraid to release some of the panic signings he made that haven't delivered at all despite being given the opportunity and likewise didn't give an opportunity to some others who had a good track record before they screwed up their career coming to AEW like Jay Lethal who is a nobody there but can be considered a TNA X-Division legend with a very memorable career there but nothing to remember him by in AEW except jobbing on AEW Dark and never having any time on their Dynamite or Rampage main shows. Pathetic
Thanks James and René for this interview. It’s nice to hear about Paul after so many years for me, despite it only feeling like a couple of years. Seriously, I remember his PWG promo with Danielson like it was yesterday. Paul London is a wrestler who I very much regard as one of the top talents of his generation along with the likes of Danielson and Styles and Punk. As ever Paul, please don’t die, and I’d like to hear more form
Up there with Danielson, Styles, and Punk - never. More like down there with Cassidy, Danhausen, and their kind. Its too bad we lost Owen Hart to that nasty fall. It should of been this goof instead.
To be fair to Phil, he give it a go and I’m not going to disparage the man for that. At his age, he was outclassed by younger dudes working out a future in that game. But he give it a go, and put in a decent performance in some horror film. Fair play to the man
@@neilerm1910 he got beat up by an old mma journalist. Gall’s aged horribly too, he hasn’t won a fight in years. So neither of those guys were remotely any good let’s be real
Bro watch UFC 225: CM Punks vs Mike Jackson. You can see exactly how unathletic or gritty CM Punk is. Embarrassing. His opponent handled him with kid gloves & literally got fired for not finishing Punk due to pitty.
Paul london is dropping truth bombs in this clip beyond wrestling with Social media and politics. This generation needs commitment! Why tf are wrestlers buddy buddy online
I’ve been really enjoying your show Rene. Awesome for people to get to see how great your personality really is & what a good human you are. Paul is a great guy to ask about this because he could do everything they these guys are doing now but he understood the art of selling. What a tremendous talent
Great interview guys! I enjoy how you guys let the guest talk, instead of interrupting like most other shows. Like the video to help the channel grow even more!
once Vince McMahon passes away I am afraid the new fast paced style will completely dominate the industry. I hate how they try to change the camera angle so much too now and shake the camera during moves. Bron Breaker is kinda reminiscent of an old school wrestler from the past era so I have hope WWE will stick to their roots but I also think todays fans and their short attention spans and are party to blame
I feel like WWE is going to stick to their style and not embrace AEW's silliness. Not because of some set of principles, but rather because more realistic wrestling makes more money. AEW's style only appeals to a small demographic.
@@stevonwhite8933 Nope. People don’t let each other hit them over and over to show how tough they are and there’s no selling. Japanese wrestling looks fake but hurts like hell.
@@al5306 That’s just showmanship, you realize they do that in boxing, Muay Thai, Kickboxing, and MMA right? “It’s who’s tougher, if you are than hit me”. For so many people who complain about not enough “manliness” in wrestling, people sure complain about the manliest wrestling on the planet. You’re talking about New Japan’s Strong style. There is also All Japan’s King’s Road Style(heavy on story), that is most modern Japanese wrestling(In NJPW specifically), but certain wrestlers just maintain to Inoki-san’s teachings. Lastly is NOAH’s Royal Road w/Ark style, a mix of Strong style and King’s Road style. Watch “Dave Knows Wrestling” YT Channel for more details on the styles. New Japan makes western wrestling look silly asf, this is undeniable.
I agree with London kinda, you're a live action performance or TV regardless. I think the issues with the death of kayfabe is instead of going more behind-the-scenes why not go more TV esque? Russo in 98-99 was doing that, make every match have a storyline, no one is just a "match" but I would also address the dumb shit in wrestling that lives on. Why is interference allowed in a "sport" that is televised at all? It'd be like at the Superbowl the Dallas Cowboys show up and jump Tom Brady and the Buccs because they want to be America's Team again and the KC Chiefs win from this interference and the NFL allows it. Roger Goodell comes out "well interference from other teams happens but if the on field refs are knocked out we can't override their rulings". I feel that level of new age "we are a TV show" thinking needs to come into play to kill the gimmicks of old. Or the idiot ref doesn't end the match and automatically give the win to whichever side doesn't have someone running in to help them, especially when their theme song hits. "Time to play the gammmmmeee" yet the ref calmly stands there waiting for HHH to enter and sledgehammer someone then maybe calls for the bells unless of course the sledgehammer hits him. I think even the "ref strike" angle made sense for what they do in storyline but we can't have thinking anymore. The upside to kayfabe is it kept wrestling logical and when it died it allows nonsense to live on. I think you can do magic guys like Taker or the Brood but I do have issue with a "sport" that has no real rules. The idiot babyface running into the back guy packed ring just to show how manly he is when clearly he's going to get stomped OR worse he superman's them all out but then suddenly once a match is on it's hard to fight one guy from that pack? The 4th wall breaks happen so often now it's more the show than the show even with the smarks who watch the crap now. Just be a damn TV show, I don't need to see Robert Downey Jr. is doing every second and care more about how many lines he got compared to Chris Evans because he's a better actor, because why the hell am I watching Avengers to begin with if my main interest is Robert Downey Jr. and Chris Evans over Iron Man and Captain America?
Here's the thing I know it's predetermined and the wrestlers aren't really trying to hurt each other back when I watched wrestling as kid in the 90's I knew it was predetermined and the wrestlers aren't really trying to hurt each other, but when I was watching it I was immersed in the world of the wrestling show and I believed it every second of it. I can't do that now because the wrestlers conduct themselves in a way that makes it impossible to suspend my disbelief.
Damn Paul is 110% right, everything he said I was like that’s exactly how I feel, agreed! But the single most important thing that’s been lost in wrestling is Kayfabe (is dead) when I was a kid - we believed and now “I feel stupid” …. Gonna go do that laundry now
Accurate point , when I watch AEW i don't want to watch wrestling and think to myself that Ohh god it's so fake when they are clearly helping each other out to hit each other with there moves , it's so mutually choreographed that it becomes distracting at a point
My question is this. Now that fans are so smart, should they feel guilty when a wrestler injures himself performing in a fake fight for their purely for their enjoyment?
I feel like a lot of things have been lost, even something simple as running the ropes feels like a lot of people struggle doing or making it look right. Used to be the guys, hell even the girls would get deep in the ropes but now? Damn things barely bend when someone runs into them.
Wrestlers are overlooking the two biggest key elements that the industry is literally hinged on, maintaining kayfabe and selling! When you take a DDT and pop right back up instantly the fans cannot suspend their disbelief. What used to be a finishing move and occasionally even used to bring the EMTs out of the back isn't even sold at all!!?? Leave alone the fact that the guy should be knocked out or at least concussed by the move the weight of him coming down on his neck she caused severe neck injuries and it isn't even sold for 2 seconds. They're breaking out like 15 of them during the opening damned match! I'm on team Cornett here and by exposing the business you killed the business and the Genie's never going back in the bottle. Vince McMahon openly admitted and right in front of a congressional committee that wrestling was a work just to save his ass and it was downhill from there
Wrestling is show business. They have to be open about the illegitimacy to ensure that they aren't targeted by athletic commissions and also so that the public can stay informed on their practices and any abuses of their workers.
Everything is a spot fest nowadays watered down shit I think the internet really ruined everything even wrestling it’s hard to story tell when people get but hurt about anything nowadays
I lost all hope for AEW was a Bucks match on Dynamite and the ref let double teams go with no counting or any semblance of enforcing the rules for 99% of the 25 minute match. They did the babyface tries to interfere but the ref stops him spot, the ref pushed the babyface back to the apron. After 23 minutes of the Bucks doing their heel double teams, what was the ref gonna do, DQ the faces?! Made the faces look like punks and all I could focus on was the ref. Abysmal.
I watched a lot of aew matches and they all have people kicking out of canadian destroyers and piledrivers but cant kick out to a more simple moveike adam cole's the boom leg lariat or something like that. Watch any Sammy match and then you got the epitome of no selling dangerous spots. Im tired of it. I hate the way wwe books too and lately they are seemingly going the indy style matches as well. Its frustratingly tiring to be a old fashioned fan of selling
Petey Williams should be getting royalties for every Canadian destroyer, and double when a celeb uses it. It’s so diluted that it hurts. Can’t even get started on superkicks.
This is why when I get into the business I wanna learn learn. The people I study like London, bryan, Orton, guerrero, muta, punk etc understand it. Got/get it. I like aew for its difference from the wwe but damn their lack of commitment and super ball matches ruin it.
While I do love wrestling, be it old-school or modern, Paul raises some good points. The lack of selling in some modern matches does take me out of it at times. But I feel like WWE and AEW workers shouldn't be completely faulted since they're on national TV with time constraints. Just last week when I was watching Maki Itoh Vs. Britt Baker, Maki was selling for Britt, but when Britt took Maki's kokeshi head butt to the stomach, she sold it for maybe five seconds before quickly getting up and moving on to the next spot. Didn't even favor her stomach or anything. Was it clear that they were strapped for time? Yes. Did it take me out of the match despite me liking both ladies? Oh, you betcha. That being said, while Paul's insight in this interview has been interesting, I just don't understand it when former wrestlers, managers, commentators, etc give modern guys and gals so much static over "not protecting kayfabe" or "not making the people believe" all the while taking part in a *SHOOT* interview! Don't even get me started on the folks who constantly rip into wrestlers for "exposing the business" when they're in fact doing it themselves. Make it make sense, guys. Please.
All of these same points were said about their generation and the one prior to that (and probably all the way back.) Do people on AEW (who are largely rookies) fuck this stuff up? Yeah, of course but the old guys all want to complain and rake them over the coals to try to keep themselves relevant. Stoke the fire so marks will give THEM money, never mind that Cornette has been fired repeatedly by ALL of the promotions for being impossible to work with and London never made it in his time (and I say this as a FAN of his.) It gets even stupider when you go back and watch the stuff everyone holds up as "good wrestling," most of the attitude era is fucking unwatchable.
I blame social media, these guys are suppose to be “enemies” “rivals” but then you see them posting pictures together at the beach having a bros moment drinking some buds. They don’t make it believable anymore.
the fact that the wrestlers in the video games sell more moves than the counterparts on tv is a damn shame. At least they look the part of injured and can come off that way but live they act like nothing can hurt them. so far the only person who sold any fckn thing was wardlow and the kick to the nuts. otherwise its a spot botch fest for all these companies. Want to know how to sell they need to watch austin and bret hart in the submission match. get someone is submission these days and they look like they are just going to bed.
I hate the "kayfabe is dead" excuse so much. It doesn't matter that I know it's all a work, I want to be able to suspend my disbelief and get lost in the match to the point that I can forget ... same as if I'm watching a great movie. So I always appreciate when wrestlers do their best to maintain that.
No selling is killing the wrestling industry. If the performer can't be bothered to put off the illusion that it's real, why would I suspend my own disbelief?
A shame Lucha Underground went under the way it did. Truly keeping kayfabe alive in its own universe. Loved what Paul was getting done there too. Has he ever spoken about if he dug Lucha Underground or not?
I find myself every week in the same boat. The lack of selling is frustrating. And aew keeps one upping their crazy stunts and the wrestlers keep getting up like nothing happened.
And alot of these mark wrestling channels(wrestletalk, wrestle hub, what culture, ect) have helped promote this workrate no-sell style of wrestling that has killed the business.
I love AEW...but theres no heat...cant tell whos a Heel or BF...no long feud build ups. Lack of story...and Hooks hair and given FTW Championship after 2 matches. But I do like the Wrestling n Talent. Need Angelina Love
Id love to hear what you all feel about MJF, and his commitment to kayfabe. Are you fans? Are you not? You may have already, and I've not yet seen it, but I think that'd be an interesting conversation for you 3. Cause I really enjoyed this clip. It's a nice change of pace of not necessarily talking about people, but ideas. Get a chance more to talk about that passion for the art. Great video. Keep it up gents.
the thing thats the stupidest today is these "chop/kick" battles guys have where they stand in the middle and just shot each other back and forth and no ones selling theyre just trying to act tough, like throwing forearms everyone can tell are fake, like really? be original and do something thats gonna wow ppl, I'm rarely impressed by anything in todays product cuz everyone just copies the same shit over and over
What's fantastic about wrestling right now is there are so many different presentations. If you don't like how a promotion is presenting itself and the product, then you can watch one that you do like, and chances are they have amazing talent. Hell GCW alone has about 7 different styles. I enjoy a Juicy Finau match as much as I enjoy a Rey Horus match even though they're VASTLY different. Wrestling is so much better when there are different styles and options.
This just made me become an even bigger fan of Paul London! I loved the days when wrestlers sold the shit out of the story and kayfabed like crazy. It’s what brought out the fan in me and why I loved guys like the ultimate warrior or rick rude or could get so into watch the rock n roll express face the andersons. When you watch Owen and Bret Harts feud and listened to bret tell the story behind it, they both sold and kayfabed the story so much and it’s the reason that feud was so great. Today’s wrestling is such shit! They sell nothing just like Paul said, they could spend months building something and in five seconds burn it all down for no reason other than they want to add some friends on Twitter!
London in WWE sold well but like with Ziggler, he sold TOO well so was used to make others look amazing. But whats interesting with his comments and its only a tiny difference that still makes a lot of difference and that is he wrestles or wrestled pretty much identically, especially in the early days of TNA (Impact) to the high flyers in AEW etc. But... he sells incredibly well. Does peril spots. And isnt afraid to play a convincing underdog. He isnt obsessed with being a badass who looks tiny.
I’ll be honest, while there may have been more selling, I don’t see much of a difference WCW Crusierweights or early Ring of Honor days... To what’s going on now in AEW. That’s just how I see it. I think it’s just a buffet of professional wrestling, and Tony does welcome the whole pie, not just the parts he likes... I think that part is a breath of fresh air... Because yes, it can miss the mark sometimes but man... At least people are having fun... At least they are not pulling their hair out... At least they are excited to come to work every Wednesday. It’s much more refreshing than seeing poor Paul London getting shafted by creative. If Tony ran WWE during that time, pretty sure London and Kidman would be a staple feud and been going on for months and been cared about. That’s why I like Tony. There is an attempt to make every title feel important. That’s just my take though. I am just a fan at the end of the day, but I do enjoy modern wrestling because it does remind me of the WCW/WWE cruiserweight divisions and early X-Division from back in the day. I like the stuff that makes me go wow personally. That’s me tho.
Paul in ROH really could have had Danielson's career if not going to WWE, but the irony is for a few years Paul was a much more known star than AJ, Danielson, Punk, or Joe.
They definitely need someone in the back to talk to those guys, it seems like the talent doesn't care. And don't get me started on the tag matches and their lack of respect for the referees. The tag matches seemingly have no rules, count outs don't matter, disqualifications don't matter. It's been 3 years and they're still lenient with the rules like it's the indies.
@@ishmael802 They said the "internet's favorite wrestler" so I figured either Kenny Omega or Danhausen...and Danhausen hasn't actually wrestled in a long while.
That's my single biggest issue about AEW they are doing so stuff right but they also do an unbelievable amount of mistakes and repetitive high spots that are so worn down it becomes useless
I remember when everyone was trashing Flair and Hogan for wrestling at 57, 60 years old. It's hysterical to see CM Punk at 43 getting the same treatment. Steamboat in his 50s had a better match with Jericho
Paul is right, kayfabe is only dead when u kill it, I remember I took a few years off from watching wwe, then the network came out and I discovered nxt, and I'm like what is this!?!? They've brought wrestling back to wrestling, and I remember Tyler breeze specifically, which is not normally the type of character that would get over with me, but he was so BELIEVABLE that he got over with me, well he eventually went to raw now he's on social media he's doing interviews etc, and bam it killed the believability...
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This era consist of spots you can see coming a mile away. If 1 person gets knocked out of the ring you know the aggressor who's inside is gonna do a swan or suicide dive. And some of the spots have no logic other than looking cool.
also when the wrestler on the outside of the ring waits to catch the other guy is such a match killer for me.
Bro…the sucide dive is literally the most over used move & dangerous.
it isn't even the move. it is the lack of effort to make it look like it fits or can organically happen. Bret Hart did a dive in 1995 on Jerry Lawler and it didn't look like Lawler was waiting to catch him.
@@ishmael802 it's more risky than jump over the top. the middle this has happened a guy can accidentally get his feet caught and break his neck.
Undertaker would save that move for Wrestlemanias
I genuinely love this channel. It's phenomenal how Rene can speak honestly about wrestling, without sounding jealous and bitter like a Ryback.
Roidback*
"Nothing what you see today is believable. Nothing" - Paul London
Especially horror movies. Everything paranormal or fantasy. Back in the day slasher films were so believable. Someone can really stab u up and kill u
That carries over to the government/news
Paul is one the nicest wrestlers you could meet in person. He was wrestling at an Indy promotion here in Austin around 2015-2016 for a few shows. Got to meet him a few times after these shows. At the bar where the show took place the upper deck was kinda a semi locker room for all of the wrestlers. You could go up there and talk to the wrestlers after the show and most everyone open to talking. Talked to ACH, Ricky Starks, Jerry Lynn and several other local Texas guys on multiple occasions. Paul was cool to talk to and was definitely down to chat. He even let my friend and I hold and take a pic the tag belt he held there at the time. You could tell he genuinely appreciated the fans.
I waited on him once at a burger joint in Marina Del Rey. Really nice guy.
Alot of marks in the business. You shouldn't care what the internet thinks, go and put out a good match and get yourself over safely. Meltzer has never wrestled a match, booked a promotion but then how does he decide what works and what doesn't in professional wrestling when he's just a mark like the rest of us are.
It's because he's been doing it a long time and alot of the Wrestlers Pay attention to his Reports
Exactly unlike older generations, this one literally treats Dave 'The AEW Mark on the payroll' as if he's the wrestling god. Pathetic!
Meltzer knows wrestling. There's no doubt about that. He just right now is shilling for his only remaining friends in the industry.
Collective 4utistism
@Phenomenal Ace I disagree. His opinions were always horrible. How does someone rate Jericho/Nick Gage 4 stars because of the crowd, but rate Rock/Hogan 3 stars and ignoring the crowd reaction.
Paul forgot to mention the most dangerous move in these matches, the roll-up
😂 that’s so true
and that's such a shame too. that should be the babyface's last hope against all odds out of nowhere pulls it off.
followed by another roll-up then a counter roll-up then another counter roll-up, then both wrestlers get up, pause and do anime style fight poses and every audience member claps in unison.
As someone who kind of likes AEW? I have to agree. They also need to learn how to end matches. Too many false finishes. My other complaint is that almost everyone does the same moves. Got to spice that shit up.Superkicks and suicide dives get old after a while.
I'm a filthy casual AEW mark, and even I'm ready to yell from the mountaintops that the friggin lot of them need a selling lesson, now
And thanks for noticing that a lot of fans are in denial
I really did try with AEW. I did. And honestly there are wrestlers there I enjoy like MJF, Jungle Boy, Thunder Rosa, Mercedes Martinez, FTR, Proud and Powerful, and Wardlow to name a few. But the booking is overall goofy and nonsensical, and the matches come across as video game matches. Too many flips, not enough substance, not enough psychology, not enough selling. But at least Good Ol' JR seems like he's about ready to say "fuck this shit" on commentary and walk away outright.
@@williampittman4560 MJF vs Wardlow is more or less the only substantial, massively fun and impressive, continuous, sensical fued that makes sense and is continuous
@@user-zj4ks1uv4s I'll agree with that. I also enjoyed Punk vs MJF too. But they're outliers, sadly; most of their feuds are lackluster and haphazard.
Also, just wanted to say Paul's prob one of your best guests so far. Great interview!
Paul is absolutely correct. These guys don't know how to sell.
because they got convinced it should be a performance not simulating reality.
Who else is sick of people casually using Canadian destroyer and other finishing moves in middle of a match all random
It’s a lazy spot honestly, garnering a cheap pop and giving a false bravado to the fact they have no clue about any wrestling psychology and how to tell a STORY.
Thank you a lot for this interview. We need more people like Paul London.
That beep at 1:15 entered through the crowd. *wink wink*
thanks I was looking for the comment to say who it was, hah
That guy thinks he's the modern Bruiser Brody, lol. He's so bad.
After noty Moxely basically no sell all his opponents I definitely see what Rene was talking about
So much respect and love for Paul. One of the realist dudes I ever met. Saying exactly what the boys are feeling but can't ever say for fear of future employment. 🤜🤛💯🎯
I don't blame him, this wrestling "style" has taken over both WWE and AEW and causes the matches to barely resemble what I used to watch for years, not to mention how people in these companies have forgotten how to tell a story that makes sense, making the products even worse.
On wwe is mainly in nxt. Dont see much of it in Raw or Smackdown.
It's not on RAW and Smackdown like you think it is. You're painting all wrestling with a broad stroke and you're incorrect. That type of wrestling is AEW's style. It's video game wrestling. It's nonsensical stunts strewn together with weapons and furniture. Anyone with any body shape or size can be competitive with anyone else. Brian Cage's physique and size are looked at, by AEW fans, like skins are in video games. It's not necessary. In WWE, size does matter. Kofi didn't get to be competitive against Lesnar. Ricochet isn't having 50/50 matches with Randy Orton or Drew McIntyre. WWE is still silly, but it's Gone With the Wind compared to AEW.
@@al5306 Ricochet is legitimately stronger than Randy, so that wasn’t a good point.
@@al5306 It's more subtle on Raw and Smackdown, but there's still a lot of the indie/video game/New Japan influence even there, the very frequent su1c1de dives and top rope moves to the outside definitely happen WAY more often than they should, the overuse of the superkicks and Canadian destroyers is much worse on NXT and especially AEW and AEW has a bunch of wrestlers who's stuff looks like dogsh1t because it looks super choreographed and phony so it's taken to 11 there, but do not delude yourself into thinking that started in AEW, that "video-gamey" modern style was first showing its ugly head back when the indie "darlings" mostly from ROH were starting to show up on WWE's TV, so as far back as 2012.
@@stevonwhite8933 He's not though.
An outstanding commentary on everything that is so wrong today with professional wrestling. Bravo, Paul London!
“Fight forever” ruined wrestling.
I hate seeing people get beat with a finisher then someone else comes to do a run in and attack the winner and the person who just lost jumps up to help the person running in. I could see if they lost due to a roll up but come on man sell that person's shit
Lol right.
Lol right.
Right Lol.
Ruthless aggression era guys are the last breed of natural entertainers even a small simple move is beautiful to watch. they can act and not marks for themselves
Another thing that is bizarre about AEW besides the zero selling are the Referees trying to get themselves over. Like that Aubrey Edwards chick. Literally needs to get her shit in. Look at this bs she does on aew. th-cam.com/video/JjmTk2sYGkI/w-d-xo.html
Thank you i been saying this i see her and im like wtf is she doing she doesnt stop waving her arms or counting with her hands she literally doesnt stop moving its distracting
Referees are meant to get the stars over, not the other way around...now there is a Forbes interview with this nobody referee who is only going in business for herself and the hardcore AEW marks who are the only people that know about her are all calling her the most over and legendary referee to have ever stepped foot in the business which is complete bullshit. Aubrey has never worked at any other major promotion and hasn't been a referee that long so still needs to pay her dues but Tony 'I'm lucky to be born to a billionaire daddy' Khan doesn't care about any of this...it's embarrassing, can't even focus on the match at all because of her and the AEW marks would cheer for anything, including an empty ring for the entire show and still kiss Tony's ass. That's why I just can't watch AEW on top of all the other stupid booking going on and wrestlers who are marks for themselves doing a half-assed job, can't cut promos properly even and 10 man stables because they need to find a way to feature their bloated roster on the limited TV time they have because Tony's too afraid to release some of the panic signings he made that haven't delivered at all despite being given the opportunity and likewise didn't give an opportunity to some others who had a good track record before they screwed up their career coming to AEW like Jay Lethal who is a nobody there but can be considered a TNA X-Division legend with a very memorable career there but nothing to remember him by in AEW except jobbing on AEW Dark and never having any time on their Dynamite or Rampage main shows. Pathetic
Thanks James and René for this interview. It’s nice to hear about Paul after so many years for me, despite it only feeling like a couple of years. Seriously, I remember his PWG promo with Danielson like it was yesterday. Paul London is a wrestler who I very much regard as one of the top talents of his generation along with the likes of Danielson and Styles and Punk. As ever Paul, please don’t die, and I’d like to hear more form
Up there with Danielson, Styles, and Punk - never. More like down there with Cassidy, Danhausen, and their kind. Its too bad we lost Owen Hart to that nasty fall. It should of been this goof instead.
@John AnthonyThank You.
@John Anthony 💩 💩
@@foreverunsaved6661 ....? Wait....what!?!? 😳 ...what in gods name are you talking about 😳😳😳
@Neiler M London was WAY more talented than cm freaking punk lmfao
Paul and Rene BS about the business is absolutely AWESOME. Just hearing 2guys who have “been there, done that”talk about it is amazing
Paul is straight up real about it and I love it.
It irritates me to end, the lack of selling, along with doing moves for the sake of it, without any rhyme or reason. I've tuned off AEW as of late.
CM Punk's kicks are horrendous. Not denying his star power but jeez. And this guy was in the UFC (never should have been in there BTW)
Exactly why he got beat up.
To be fair to Phil, he give it a go and I’m not going to disparage the man for that. At his age, he was outclassed by younger dudes working out a future in that game. But he give it a go, and put in a decent performance in some horror film. Fair play to the man
@@neilerm1910 he got beat up by an old mma journalist. Gall’s aged horribly too, he hasn’t won a fight in years. So neither of those guys were remotely any good let’s be real
He was trained by Duke Fucking Roufus, a literal kickboxing legend. His kicks should be better. I love Punk, but his kicks are atrocious
Bro watch UFC 225: CM Punks vs Mike Jackson. You can see exactly how unathletic or gritty CM Punk is. Embarrassing. His opponent handled him with kid gloves & literally got fired for not finishing Punk due to pitty.
Paul london is dropping truth bombs in this clip beyond wrestling with Social media and politics. This generation needs commitment! Why tf are wrestlers buddy buddy online
I’ve been really enjoying your show Rene. Awesome for people to get to see how great your personality really is & what a good human you are. Paul is a great guy to ask about this because he could do everything they these guys are doing now but he understood the art of selling. What a tremendous talent
This is some of the best stuff I've heard about AEW. I agree with everything Paul London just said.
How much stretches do you need to do to pull off a super kick
Thanks guys
Great interview guys! I enjoy how you guys let the guest talk, instead of interrupting like most other shows. Like the video to help the channel grow even more!
once Vince McMahon passes away I am afraid the new fast paced style will completely dominate the industry. I hate how they try to change the camera angle so much too now and shake the camera during moves. Bron Breaker is kinda reminiscent of an old school wrestler from the past era so I have hope WWE will stick to their roots but I also think todays fans and their short attention spans and are party to blame
I feel like WWE is going to stick to their style and not embrace AEW's silliness. Not because of some set of principles, but rather because more realistic wrestling makes more money. AEW's style only appeals to a small demographic.
@@al5306 The only realistic wrestling, is Japanese wrestling.
@@stevonwhite8933 Nope. People don’t let each other hit them over and over to show how tough they are and there’s no selling. Japanese wrestling looks fake but hurts like hell.
@@al5306 That’s just showmanship, you realize they do that in boxing, Muay Thai, Kickboxing, and MMA right?
“It’s who’s tougher, if you are than hit me”. For so many people who complain about not enough “manliness” in wrestling, people sure complain about the manliest wrestling on the planet.
You’re talking about New Japan’s Strong style.
There is also All Japan’s King’s Road Style(heavy on story), that is most modern Japanese wrestling(In NJPW specifically), but certain wrestlers just maintain to Inoki-san’s teachings.
Lastly is NOAH’s Royal Road w/Ark style, a mix of Strong style and King’s Road style. Watch “Dave Knows Wrestling” YT Channel for more details on the styles.
New Japan makes western wrestling look silly asf, this is undeniable.
@@al5306 Didn't WWE literally have zombies kidnap the Miz?
I agree with London kinda, you're a live action performance or TV regardless. I think the issues with the death of kayfabe is instead of going more behind-the-scenes why not go more TV esque? Russo in 98-99 was doing that, make every match have a storyline, no one is just a "match" but I would also address the dumb shit in wrestling that lives on.
Why is interference allowed in a "sport" that is televised at all? It'd be like at the Superbowl the Dallas Cowboys show up and jump Tom Brady and the Buccs because they want to be America's Team again and the KC Chiefs win from this interference and the NFL allows it. Roger Goodell comes out "well interference from other teams happens but if the on field refs are knocked out we can't override their rulings". I feel that level of new age "we are a TV show" thinking needs to come into play to kill the gimmicks of old.
Or the idiot ref doesn't end the match and automatically give the win to whichever side doesn't have someone running in to help them, especially when their theme song hits. "Time to play the gammmmmeee" yet the ref calmly stands there waiting for HHH to enter and sledgehammer someone then maybe calls for the bells unless of course the sledgehammer hits him. I think even the "ref strike" angle made sense for what they do in storyline but we can't have thinking anymore.
The upside to kayfabe is it kept wrestling logical and when it died it allows nonsense to live on. I think you can do magic guys like Taker or the Brood but I do have issue with a "sport" that has no real rules. The idiot babyface running into the back guy packed ring just to show how manly he is when clearly he's going to get stomped OR worse he superman's them all out but then suddenly once a match is on it's hard to fight one guy from that pack?
The 4th wall breaks happen so often now it's more the show than the show even with the smarks who watch the crap now.
Just be a damn TV show, I don't need to see Robert Downey Jr. is doing every second and care more about how many lines he got compared to Chris Evans because he's a better actor, because why the hell am I watching Avengers to begin with if my main interest is Robert Downey Jr. and Chris Evans over Iron Man and Captain America?
Catch as can wrestling should come back .its an art
Here's the thing I know it's predetermined and the wrestlers aren't really trying to hurt each other back when I watched wrestling as kid in the 90's I knew it was predetermined and the wrestlers aren't really trying to hurt each other, but when I was watching it I was immersed in the world of the wrestling show and I believed it every second of it. I can't do that now because the wrestlers conduct themselves in a way that makes it impossible to suspend my disbelief.
Well Cornette has said the samething about AEW and some of you out there call him an out of touch has been
He isn’t out of touched he’s just very picky everything has to be perfect
No, they are different people. How would you know it's the same group of people agreeing with London but disagreeing with Cornette?
I enjoy aew but the no selling is an issue
Paul London be sounding a lot like Jim Cornette and I like it
Does MJF come up in the interview later? He does the opposite of everything London's complaining about here.
Paul has been outstanding on the show
1:15 RIP Head phone users
Apologies 🤣
Damn Paul is 110% right, everything he said I was like that’s exactly how I feel, agreed! But the single most important thing that’s been lost in wrestling is Kayfabe (is dead) when I was a kid - we believed and now “I feel stupid” …. Gonna go do that laundry now
This is you're best guest thus far not a WWe/AEW suck up!Keep this up & you'll have a 100K subscribers or more and that luscious plaque!
I feel ya. Everything's so conditional, really wears you down
Accurate point , when I watch AEW i don't want to watch wrestling and think to myself that Ohh god it's so fake when they are clearly helping each other out to hit each other with there moves , it's so mutually choreographed that it becomes distracting at a point
My question is this. Now that fans are so smart, should they feel guilty when a wrestler injures himself performing in a fake fight for their purely for their enjoyment?
only if the fans tell him to do something he doesnt know how to do.
That beep had to be Kenny Omega
I feel like a lot of things have been lost, even something simple as running the ropes feels like a lot of people struggle doing or making it look right. Used to be the guys, hell even the girls would get deep in the ropes but now? Damn things barely bend when someone runs into them.
Wrestlers are overlooking the two biggest key elements that the industry is literally hinged on, maintaining kayfabe and selling! When you take a DDT and pop right back up instantly the fans cannot suspend their disbelief. What used to be a finishing move and occasionally even used to bring the EMTs out of the back isn't even sold at all!!?? Leave alone the fact that the guy should be knocked out or at least concussed by the move the weight of him coming down on his neck she caused severe neck injuries and it isn't even sold for 2 seconds. They're breaking out like 15 of them during the opening damned match! I'm on team Cornett here and by exposing the business you killed the business and the Genie's never going back in the bottle. Vince McMahon openly admitted and right in front of a congressional committee that wrestling was a work just to save his ass and it was downhill from there
if that hadnt happened the internet would have exposed it for sure anyway
Wrestling is show business. They have to be open about the illegitimacy to ensure that they aren't targeted by athletic commissions and also so that the public can stay informed on their practices and any abuses of their workers.
London is so accurate.
Absolutely spot on! Kayfabe and storytelling are being neglected and it just looks like garbage
Everything is a spot fest nowadays watered down shit I think the internet really ruined everything even wrestling it’s hard to story tell when people get but hurt about anything nowadays
What did they bleep out that Rene said?
He said Jon Moxley.
Honestly I keep trying with aew but I just can't get into it. Many of the reasons mentioned here.
“The marks are now in the ring” -Vince Russo
The irony of that statement
I lost all hope for AEW was a Bucks match on Dynamite and the ref let double teams go with no counting or any semblance of enforcing the rules for 99% of the 25 minute match. They did the babyface tries to interfere but the ref stops him spot, the ref pushed the babyface back to the apron. After 23 minutes of the Bucks doing their heel double teams, what was the ref gonna do, DQ the faces?! Made the faces look like punks and all I could focus on was the ref. Abysmal.
Remember the the super kick with a Metal shoe to jungle boy then he gets back up three minutes later smh
its raining outside i gotta go wash my car" 😂 exactly.
I totally agree with London. Kayfabe is an integral part of pro wrestling. It's part of the job, and if you don't know that GET OUT OF THE RING
I watched a lot of aew matches and they all have people kicking out of canadian destroyers and piledrivers but cant kick out to a more simple moveike adam cole's the boom leg lariat or something like that. Watch any Sammy match and then you got the epitome of no selling dangerous spots. Im tired of it. I hate the way wwe books too and lately they are seemingly going the indy style matches as well. Its frustratingly tiring to be a old fashioned fan of selling
Don't forget every "epic" match needs multiple kickouts and the back and forth punching "yay" "boo" spot
100% agree!
Petey Williams should be getting royalties for every Canadian destroyer, and double when a celeb uses it. It’s so diluted that it hurts. Can’t even get started on superkicks.
This is why when I get into the business I wanna learn learn. The people I study like London, bryan, Orton, guerrero, muta, punk etc understand it. Got/get it. I like aew for its difference from the wwe but damn their lack of commitment and super ball matches ruin it.
While I do love wrestling, be it old-school or modern, Paul raises some good points. The lack of selling in some modern matches does take me out of it at times. But I feel like WWE and AEW workers shouldn't be completely faulted since they're on national TV with time constraints. Just last week when I was watching Maki Itoh Vs. Britt Baker, Maki was selling for Britt, but when Britt took Maki's kokeshi head butt to the stomach, she sold it for maybe five seconds before quickly getting up and moving on to the next spot. Didn't even favor her stomach or anything. Was it clear that they were strapped for time? Yes. Did it take me out of the match despite me liking both ladies? Oh, you betcha.
That being said, while Paul's insight in this interview has been interesting, I just don't understand it when former wrestlers, managers, commentators, etc give modern guys and gals so much static over "not protecting kayfabe" or "not making the people believe" all the while taking part in a *SHOOT* interview! Don't even get me started on the folks who constantly rip into wrestlers for "exposing the business" when they're in fact doing it themselves. Make it make sense, guys. Please.
All of these same points were said about their generation and the one prior to that (and probably all the way back.) Do people on AEW (who are largely rookies) fuck this stuff up? Yeah, of course but the old guys all want to complain and rake them over the coals to try to keep themselves relevant. Stoke the fire so marks will give THEM money, never mind that Cornette has been fired repeatedly by ALL of the promotions for being impossible to work with and London never made it in his time (and I say this as a FAN of his.)
It gets even stupider when you go back and watch the stuff everyone holds up as "good wrestling," most of the attitude era is fucking unwatchable.
@@CidsaDragoonRuthless Aggression was great
I just saw Pro-Wrestling 2012. Hiroshi Tanahashi vs Suzuki was a TRUE Professional Wrestling match and I enjoyed it so much.
Paul London's oh my god at the end regarding britt baker wanting five stars from Dave Meltzer is hilarious.
I blame social media, these guys are suppose to be “enemies” “rivals” but then you see them posting pictures together at the beach having a bros moment drinking some buds. They don’t make it believable anymore.
People don't believe that modern day wrasslers are NPCs over Meltzer reviews.
the fact that the wrestlers in the video games sell more moves than the counterparts on tv is a damn shame. At least they look the part of injured and can come off that way but live they act like nothing can hurt them. so far the only person who sold any fckn thing was wardlow and the kick to the nuts. otherwise its a spot botch fest for all these companies. Want to know how to sell they need to watch austin and bret hart in the submission match. get someone is submission these days and they look like they are just going to bed.
He's on point
I hate the "kayfabe is dead" excuse so much. It doesn't matter that I know it's all a work, I want to be able to suspend my disbelief and get lost in the match to the point that I can forget ... same as if I'm watching a great movie. So I always appreciate when wrestlers do their best to maintain that.
No selling is killing the wrestling industry. If the performer can't be bothered to put off the illusion that it's real, why would I suspend my own disbelief?
Don't forget aews backstage blogs were they show half the talent hanging out and eating b ores and toy hunts
A shame Lucha Underground went under the way it did. Truly keeping kayfabe alive in its own universe. Loved what Paul was getting done there too. Has he ever spoken about if he dug Lucha Underground or not?
Pink ain't a video game wrestler. That's Omega and the bucks
I find myself every week in the same boat. The lack of selling is frustrating. And aew keeps one upping their crazy stunts and the wrestlers keep getting up like nothing happened.
And alot of these mark wrestling channels(wrestletalk, wrestle hub, what culture, ect) have helped promote this workrate no-sell style of wrestling that has killed the business.
I love AEW...but theres no heat...cant tell whos a Heel or BF...no long feud build ups. Lack of story...and Hooks hair and given FTW Championship after 2 matches. But I do like the Wrestling n Talent. Need Angelina Love
Id love to hear what you all feel about MJF, and his commitment to kayfabe. Are you fans? Are you not? You may have already, and I've not yet seen it, but I think that'd be an interesting conversation for you 3. Cause I really enjoyed this clip. It's a nice change of pace of not necessarily talking about people, but ideas. Get a chance more to talk about that passion for the art.
Great video.
Keep it up gents.
the thing thats the stupidest today is these "chop/kick" battles guys have where they stand in the middle and just shot each other back and forth and no ones selling theyre just trying to act tough, like throwing forearms everyone can tell are fake, like really? be original and do something thats gonna wow ppl, I'm rarely impressed by anything in todays product cuz everyone just copies the same shit over and over
What's fantastic about wrestling right now is there are so many different presentations. If you don't like how a promotion is presenting itself and the product, then you can watch one that you do like, and chances are they have amazing talent. Hell GCW alone has about 7 different styles. I enjoy a Juicy Finau match as much as I enjoy a Rey Horus match even though they're VASTLY different. Wrestling is so much better when there are different styles and options.
What annoys me in AEW is they'll do a million big spots that could/should be finishes and then there'll be an underwhelming finisher that gets the 3.
Interview Bryan Kendrick.
I'm pretty sure her wanting 5 stars was sarcasm
Nope.
This just made me become an even bigger fan of Paul London! I loved the days when wrestlers sold the shit out of the story and kayfabed like crazy. It’s what brought out the fan in me and why I loved guys like the ultimate warrior or rick rude or could get so into watch the rock n roll express face the andersons. When you watch Owen and Bret Harts feud and listened to bret tell the story behind it, they both sold and kayfabed the story so much and it’s the reason that feud was so great.
Today’s wrestling is such shit! They sell nothing just like Paul said, they could spend months building something and in five seconds burn it all down for no reason other than they want to add some friends on Twitter!
'I hope I get 5 stars from Dave Meltzer.' While hugging her opponent.
Can we just check on The Undertaker please?
I feel a disturbance in the force.
lol i watched this while folding laundry
Am I The only one who thinks London looks and sounds a little like Stevie Richard now? (With a less raspy tone)
London in WWE sold well but like with Ziggler, he sold TOO well so was used to make others look amazing.
But whats interesting with his comments and its only a tiny difference that still makes a lot of difference and that is he wrestles or wrestled pretty much identically, especially in the early days of TNA (Impact) to the high flyers in AEW etc. But... he sells incredibly well. Does peril spots. And isnt afraid to play a convincing underdog. He isnt obsessed with being a badass who looks tiny.
'Cyberfight'....very interesting choice of gimmick infringement...😏
I’ll be honest, while there may have been more selling, I don’t see much of a difference WCW Crusierweights or early Ring of Honor days... To what’s going on now in AEW. That’s just how I see it. I think it’s just a buffet of professional wrestling, and Tony does welcome the whole pie, not just the parts he likes...
I think that part is a breath of fresh air... Because yes, it can miss the mark sometimes but man... At least people are having fun... At least they are not pulling their hair out... At least they are excited to come to work every Wednesday. It’s much more refreshing than seeing poor Paul London getting shafted by creative. If Tony ran WWE during that time, pretty sure London and Kidman would be a staple feud and been going on for months and been cared about. That’s why I like Tony. There is an attempt to make every title feel important.
That’s just my take though. I am just a fan at the end of the day, but I do enjoy modern wrestling because it does remind me of the WCW/WWE cruiserweight divisions and early X-Division from back in the day. I like the stuff that makes me go wow personally. That’s me tho.
Paul in ROH really could have had Danielson's career if not going to WWE, but the irony is for a few years Paul was a much more known star than AJ, Danielson, Punk, or Joe.
They definitely need someone in the back to talk to those guys, it seems like the talent doesn't care. And don't get me started on the tag matches and their lack of respect for the referees. The tag matches seemingly have no rules, count outs don't matter, disqualifications don't matter. It's been 3 years and they're still lenient with the rules like it's the indies.
Did they bleep out Kenny Olivier's name lol?
Sounded like Johnny Mecury
@@ishmael802 They said the "internet's favorite wrestler" so I figured either Kenny Omega or Danhausen...and Danhausen hasn't actually wrestled in a long while.
1:14 I heard John Moxley
Wwe used to tell others wrestlers to not do high spots etc all the time London was even shit on for taking the rr spot and taking spot off other ppl
Slow it down, sell and tell a story with the match...that's all I ask.
That's my single biggest issue about AEW they are doing so stuff right but they also do an unbelievable amount of mistakes and repetitive high spots that are so worn down it becomes useless
I remember when everyone was trashing Flair and Hogan for wrestling at 57, 60 years old. It's hysterical to see CM Punk at 43 getting the same treatment. Steamboat in his 50s had a better match with Jericho
Paul is right, kayfabe is only dead when u kill it, I remember I took a few years off from watching wwe, then the network came out and I discovered nxt, and I'm like what is this!?!? They've brought wrestling back to wrestling, and I remember Tyler breeze specifically, which is not normally the type of character that would get over with me, but he was so BELIEVABLE that he got over with me, well he eventually went to raw now he's on social media he's doing interviews etc, and bam it killed the believability...
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