You are so wrong because Regal Ancestor Spirit is S+++ tier because of the OST alone Mimic Tear is only bad if you're bad Elden Beast is good you just need to go for a jog a few times a week to get your cardio up Fire Giant is big and cool Sorry Ontos, although you are exceptionally skilled at Elden Ring, have excellent analytical skills, and thoroughly broke down the pros and cons to each boss fight you are missing just how cool the big bosses are. For that I put this video in S tier, not S+ tier. Great stuff as always!
S tier is good! I'll take it!! Glad you enjoyed it, Jack. Especially since you also love Elden Beast and would like to see the space balloon a bit higher ;))
I'll be honest the only hot take is Valiant Gargoyle Due in B, they are poop poop. Only time I had any fun was with an NPC summon or spirit, arena is okay, but yeah solid video.
Man, enjoyed this so much because even though I am not a challenge runner, this self restrained melee style is how I best enjoy the games. The impaling thrust ash of war with spear talisman is when the game really clicked for me because it doesn't do crazy damage normally but if you can land your hit in during the attack animation including the follow through/retraction at the end, you get 50% extra damage + extra stagger along with an already high poise damage of 30. This made me play with an offensive philosophy of trying to either hit in the frames right before or right after an attack and dodge/evade as needed as opposed to the DS3/BB defensive philosophy of 'focus on dodging all the boss attacks first and attack however you can from that state'. Most tier lists/critiques i've seen are either dodge-pilled vets complaining that there's no middle ground difficulty for melee or 'power fantasy' pilled newer players whose rankings I just personally cannot relate to because they are on some hyper optimised nuked AOW mimic tear build. It's great to see someone whose rankings I can empathise with. In terms of mechanical perfection and preciseness required for a 'normal' player, Fume Knight is still the best boss imo. The cycle of dodging and counter attacking later is a lot more fun in the first 2 DS games because there was barely any i frames so you had to actually evade the weapon's swing as opposed to just dodge through it. It's very different from DS3 and BB in terms of mechanical intricacy imo.
I totally agree with everything your saying, it's hilarious to me that people want these games to be masterable within like 2 weeks of playing. I typically play competitive shooters like counter-strike, trying to get to a high rank takes many many hours of practice so practicing a boss for a day or two to be able to beat it isn't much in comparison. In terms of the "it can be difficult, but not fun" complaint, I agree with you again. There are countless no-hit runs where people are hyper aggressive and if that game play doesn't look fun then honestly I don't know what does. I genuinely just think these people got their ass beat for a day or two and were so offended that they lost so many times that they created entire video essays to make themselves feel better. Also there are like 5 videos that are just the exact same thing as that Joseph Anderson one with nothing different. I remember one time someone said "everytime I die in a souls game I just remember that means I have more time to play it" I remember that when I think sometimes too hard. Also on a side-note if someone thinks something is too hard they could just use summoning ashes, there are so many different ones that you could spawn yourself in a kind of weak one just to make it a little easier, or use a mimic tear to just plow through the boss. Totally up to the player for how much of a challenge they want.
Your videos are amazing, I am blown away honestly, very informative with consistent reasonings behind your tier-list, still man that Elden Beast F tier hurt my soul, but I get it, can’t wait for the DLC, it’s so close lol. I am waiting for your Malenia video.
Well, Elden beast is definitely better than Fire Giant. I enjoy him more! I hope that makes you feel better :p My Malenia video will happen after the DLC playthrough. I cant wait to see that 'as hard as Malenia' boss Miyazaki talked about. I want to see that boss' challenge blind and go 'Ok. I think this is our man (or woman)' And all of you guys will witness that moment in my Let's play. I will edit my failures and talk about my rationale on how I approach their attacks or what I think about while rolling in this or that direction. It should be fun hopefully. Glad you enjoyed this video once again. Much love,
@@Ontos99 Yes absolutely, this did make me feel better lol, yeah take as much time as you need, because you cook banger videos! Will watch your playthrough of the DLC as well!
My favorite is Maliketh for everything you've said basically. I personally rank Malenia at C, despite agreeing with your explanation of how she's designed. Though at that point that's just a matter of preference. There's nothing about her that has felt insurmountable for me, or particularly unfair, but I just didn't personally enjoy the way her fight flows. I didn't do RL1 or RL1+0 vs her, but I did learn enough to hitless her, but I still didn't get that same sense of joy for beating her in such a way. Your take on Valiant Gargoyles was definitely spicy though. I don't really see anyone talk about them in that way, and I can definitely see how that delayed arrival can make their gank fight better than others of their kind.
Maliketh is a boss I find (in terms of ranking) almost in my top 3. I actually think he is a stronger boss in terms of mechanical variety than both Radahn and Mohg. Since both Clergyman and Maliketh has individual movesets and countless weaknesses. When it comes to S and S+ tier, I actually like all of them on a similar level for different reasons. They all have slight advantages and disadvantages in comparison. The true tier list starts with A-B-C... in my book. The sheer fact that there are so many S and S+ tier bosses in Elden Ring is a testament to its design quality imo. Rarely would I put so many bosses on top tiers.
@@Ontos99 I definitely agree on how the bosses are made in this game. Plenty of fantastic fights to figure out, and understand if one wants to learn the ins and outs to get the dance down to get a fantastic time out of them. I just also throw in my personal enjoyment on top of the context, theming, and overall mechanics of the fight. I'm chomping at the bit to see how the dlc bosses will play out once the dlc is in our hands to explore, and really dig into.
Margit is the reason I put hundreds of hours into this game without ever playing a souls game before. Yes, I will probably never get that shock back. Going in as a total noob confused as all hell and just taking in the amazing detail of the game, it was a challenge for me at the time to even reach this mofo, and then BOOM. He kicked my ass over and over again.... yeah, S+ without a doubt. While I agree Malenia is the #1 boss... that dude beat me silly until I figured out how to play the game xD Great list!
I replay these games for the challenge and the bosses, and as of now, most older Souls games don’t challenge me the way Elden Ring bosses continue to do. Malenia is the peak of that challenge, and successfully dodging Waterfowl Dance is always an amazing feeling. I also love how easy she gets once you figure out how to keep up the aggressive stance, breaking her stance repeatedly and constantly getting hits in between her combos. The biggest mistake I see new players make when fighting Malenia, in particular, is that they get too comfortable punishing some attacks and don’t take advantage of all the openings, scared of Malenia's pace. However, the flaw in that logic is that you’re just dragging out the fight, creating more opportunities for the AI to roll the dice and land on Waterfowl Dance, ending your run. The greatest example of this is Kai Cenat. He beat her, but that wasn’t an easy feat. Looking at his strategy, he only learned how to punish the easy moves and just stuck to that, too scared to unlearn his bad habits for a short period in exchange for becoming better further down the line.
Its nice seeing someone who actually appreciates elden rings imo superior boss design rank the bosses. Funny thing about me is that I prefer Fortissax to Placidusax, and I also consider Placi A tier. I encountered Fortissax before going to Leyndell, so he was by far the coolest boss up to that point. Dodging the double spear and then the sky glaive as the second phase music kicks in was just too iconic to me. The fight itself is cool too because its a nod to midir where you're supposed to hit his head not his legs because if you go to close to him it'll summon that lightning on you that detonates after a couple seconds. I also like how his lightning slashes have that detonate effect, rollcatching you if you have bad positioning. He's a bit tanky for when I fought him, but it was still really fun and underrated
Yes. I believe I was unable to appreciate Fortissax for many reasons on a personal level. Placi coming before him for me is one reason. I was also over levelled by a lot which meant losing all tension in the fight. Some of his cool attacks I couldnt quite see etc. I plan to give him a proper try some other time and balance my perception of him.
@@Ontos99 I personally recommend fighting him before Morgott with like a +15ish weapon. I imagine your first fight with him lasted less than a minute when for me he's usually one of the longer midgame fights
Ontos, dude, you even know how refreshing it is to finally come across a boss tier list done by a person who actually knows what they are talking about?! this was amazing. although i disagree a bit about EB and FG, my tier list almost looks identical to yours. so, yeah. Btw, the moment i saw you refuse using Wave of Destruction against Malenia in her Bloom, you earned my respect. frick spamming, who needs that when you can hold your ground fighting straight?
Tell me your opinions on where you'd place EB and FG? I prefer close combat melee unless there is a very good reason to use projectile attacks. I do not use it especially since my opponent shines on close combat ;))
@@Ontos99 I'd put EB & FG above Astel. imo, while agreeing with everything you said about EB, it's still a better Boss/fight than Astel. Although Astel looks "Cool", fighting him as a melee lover is clunky and unexciting; Borderline boring. The Design of Elden Beast's model is something very inspired and unique. as an Astronomy enthusiast I screamed "Laniakea?!!!" when I saw it emerged from the waters for the first time. and let's not forget the beautiful and divine music and it's interaction with the hits done by the player. I'd happily run after him every time instead of fighting Astel. But it remains in low tier for me. because of what you mentioned; it marred the mechanically-rich, story-coherent Radagon fight. it felt so disconnected and irrelevant to my lore-unaware brain in my first playthrough. just a beautiful space dinosaur with annoying moveset. (Low D / High E) Fire Giant; it might be a hot take but i think the biggest problem with that boss is not him but the Arena. the uneven terrain there is just horrible (that fkin big rock in the middle). the camera/FOV makes it almost impossible to fully see what he's up too. it's like fighting a huge leg. but I like his moveset. it's fair (except for the Fire Breath ricochet) and simple. and we also have Torrent there. I'd put him just below EB. (High E) I'd put Astel in F. can't stomach that abomination. and let's not forget Godefroy. he goes to F Tier even Below Astel.
Man, Malenia is such a can of worms. But I do wanna point out an issue I rarely see talked about; she doesn't follow standard boss AI for group fights against her. Durring her clone attack she'll just target players and summons at random, and rack up giant piles of healing. It's also a move I've always found harder to dodge than waterfowl, having less telegraph than it (she can just suddenly be flying above you causing scarlet rot and near leathal immediate damage on NG++ and beyond) and much more strictly positioningy-dependant attack locations. Also when I say she attacks at random, I do mean it durring the clone rush. My friends and I have gotten pretty good at manipulating boss aggression because we've found a lot of fun recently in bosses being treated like raid encounters with one of us climbing NG+s over and over while the others chip in to increase the boss HP pool even further. Malenia is the most comically easy boss until she activates a waterfowl you can't see through the mage's spells (admittedly skill issue lol), or she goes into her clone attack where she'll be attacking just...whoever. Had one friend try to draw agro cus he was full HP and knew both of the other 2 were not. So Malenia visibly faced him in the attack while he hit her, and then sent her even clones after one of us, odd on the other of us, and then sent one clone at him that, due to how the clones attack in a really unbalanced fashion, just kinda instantly teleported a hit box ontop of one of us while we were dodging the clones that were intended for us. I think seeing just how awkward and jenky that attack was in a group-setting really just is the nail in the coffin that we've been justifying a lot of broken and buggy mechanics for Malenia as "intended" when they really just work in the most random ways that don't really seem to follow any rhyme or reason. Like why does she get hyper armor at varrying random points durring her grab move? Sometimes you can just toss her out of it with a regular light attack from a spear and other times attacks that launch her can't dislodge her from doing it, just...at random as far as I can tell.
margit being harder and more complex boss than godrick makes sense in lore how he weeds out the tarnished so they wont get godricks greatrune but its also kinda ironic that margit preps you to sweep floor with godrick
Good video. However I do believe Elden beast should be placed a little higher. Here are my two reasons: -in regards to the Elden beast running away/moving around a lot I find this to be somewhat overblown because many of the Elden beasts attacks where it “runs away” it comes straight back and with attacks like its ring attack if you turn 180 degrees and run the opposite direction the boss usually just pops up right next to you. I honestly believe bosses like Midir and Sinh run away more than Elden beast. -secondly one thing I appreciate about the Elden beast mechanically is how in its second phase it can shoot out multiple attacks at once and you have to dodge both at the same time which I find very satisfying to pull off. For these reasons I would probably put Elden beast in C or B tier. Regardless good luck with your next video!
i have a lore question regarding marika’s hammer since you mentioned it in the video. the description for the hammer’s ash of war says that jump attack is radagon’s signature move. does that mean he was using the same hammer before shattering?
By the time shattering has occured, Radagon and Marika were a single being in a single body. This means Marika's hammer is also Radagon's hammer. Marika attempted to shatter the ER with it while shapeshifting with Radagon attempting to mend it similarly by using this same hammer. However, Marika's will won out in the end and Radagon failed to mend the Elden Ring. His resistance to shattering the ER was deflected by his other self, Marika. In another sense, Radagon tried to, one last time, exert some of his individual will and desire but Marika has enforced her will at the end. By shattering the elden ring. Hope this makes sense. Much love,
@@Ontos99 i know he used that hammer to try to repair the elden ring but i wonder if he used the same hammer in the wars he participated before. otherwise it wouldn’t be called his signature attack i guess.
@@blamepluto7308 of course it is possible BUT there are actual risks to this. Also the "Brick Hammer" weapon description alludes to that, he may not. Radagon is that giant reffered to there as the champion who used that weapon. Using Marika's hammer as Radagon is a dead giveaway of his connection to Marika. So it doesnt make sense for him to use it. This "Signature attack move" is reffering specifically to Radagon boss battle and the move he used against us. It doesnt (imo) has ramifications for Radagon's battle techniques in prior wars. Hope this helps. Much love
Yeah after fighting Malenia many times I have the dodge roll perfected against waterfowl. Its hard but its not THAT hard lol. I wouldn’t really call it a bad mechanic, its more of a “you have no room for error” mechanic.
The issue imo is she can start it in a bad moment. Maybe you are in a recovery animation or maybe you are not moving the analogue stick too intently etc. If you dont react lightning fast, you wont be able to do a perfect dodge and will need to do some tanking of damage. But thats fine. It is a part of Malenia's mechanics in my eyes. You need to "just survive" if it happens at a really bad or weird time
I actually really enjoy the Elden Beast, Regal Ancestor Spirit and Rennala fights, but I’m aware I’m in the minority. I’m more of an atmosphere over complex mechanics kinda Souls fan, though. Still, I enjoy a good challenge, and I will always defend the Malenia fight cuz the feeling of pure euphoria I get every time I successfully dodge waterfall dance without taking damage is something I’ve never gotten out of any other game.
Good analysis! I agree with you about most of the bosses, but I don't think it was fair for you to criticise Fire Giant for being able to one-shot you when you admit that the reason for that happening with other bosses was due to your low-Vigor stat build though. Do you think your opinion on Elden Beast could change now that the ability to use Torrent in the fight has been patched in? Personally I think they are well-balanced for fighting on foot.
Yes. My opinion on Elden Beast might change now thanks to torrent. I have to play it to say anything tho. I can probably now put him on at least E tier.
I think just ask them which boss is the best and they can't pick one I mean there are many great bosses Morgott, Radahn, Mohg, Maliketh (without first phase cuz it's sucks😂😂😂) even Radagon but if you have to choose only one Malenia will have the advantage because she has it all
oh, your ranking of regal ancestral spirit made me sad, but i kinda get it. i think the atmosphere, music, color design, and lore really push this up for me. my most disappointing fight is probably Renalla. such an important lore boss and we get that? i wasn't particularly high leveled, Elden Ring is my first souls game, and I had relative ease defeating her on the second try. i remember saying "wait, i thought these games were supposed to be hard?!" 😂
Renalla is very disappointing haha. But I feel bad for her as Marika had already destroyed her entire career and life. So I gave her some slack with D tier ;)) Ancestor spirit is really a nice spectacle boss. It is just my preference to keep less combo flowchart heavy bosses a bit lower in my list.
After the Intro: If Morgott isn't in S+, I'll riot. I think he exemplifies everything you said in the opening edit: I didn't watch the final bit of the opening where you talked about contextually and thematic richness. I think your reasoning good. I agree, Morgott is I think the best boss mechanically, but I I look at him as a whole, he lacks a little something about his fight. Overall a very fair list, where I agree with many of the placements, which makes sense since I seem to have a very similar perspective to you when it comes to what I value in the bosses. The only placements I disagree with are Elden Beast and Fire Giant. I get their lack of mechanical interestingness, but I do enjoy these fights. My main critizism of both is their jankyness, which makes them quite frustrating on low health/ hitless fights. But I like their spectacle. For Fire Giant Phase 2 is interesting enough for me and I always appreciate a giant-boss-type battle where you actually have the boss in full view and are not just hacking at their ankles. As for Elden Beast - sure there is some running, but often you have to dodge something while doing it and it ends up being quite meditative for me, which is kind of fitting for the final fight. I do agree though, that Radagon should have been a fully fleshed out boss with a checkpoint between him and Elden Beast.
It is nice to see that there are other people that also realize that Sekiro combat isn't necessarily superior than souls combat in every regards. The fundamentals such as spacing and positioning are almost no existence in Sekiro, and those fundamentals that make souls game alot more depts and fun to master than just typical dodge simulator people often jokingly refer them as. These fundamentals are pretty obvious for any semi competent PVPers but for the majority of souls player, they are not really require to beat the game casually. That is why when ER bosses require player to have a bit more knowledgeable about positioning to get opening, many souls PVE veteran might not be able wrap their heads around how they suppose to find opening to punish. That being said, I still think that Sekiro combat have much more potential so I actually refer if their next melee centric game will expand on the combat of Sekiro over souls combat.
Let me propose a path where Sekiro 2 can improve on the Sekiro fundamentals. Add 'Perfect dodge' similar to Ghost of tsushima as a mechanic. Make sure there are directional advantages or spacing related challenges in fights. Also, tighten up the parry windows more. --- I think Sekiro 2 would be noticeably improved if they can integrate these 3 things. Of course, I'd like to see the level design improved by a lot. Let alone the OST.
I agree with Malenia, but disagree with Elden Beast. Well, it's really not that fun to play catch up with a boss, but damn, it's one of the most beautiful and spectacular fight in Fromsoftware games. That's already a reason to love it.
You're still have the best Elden Ring openings on the market😁 Interesting point of view about Malenia btw...though I would disagree about first place because this boss is completely harmless 99% of the time and then can oneshot you with one move that is as counterintuitive as humanly possible. It's not hardness, it's simple beating a wall with trial and error until it breaks. I doubt that centering a boss around one particular attack and the rest of the time she is easy as hell is good difficulty balancing. Maliketh can oneshot you with literally any attack if you get caught. But he has very low HP, his attacks are very slow and highly telegraphed and when he kills you - it's 100% your fault. With Malenia you have a good portion of luck included which is unacceptable. I would say that waterfowl dance is the single bad attack in the whole game. At least this is mine point of view.
Yes, I do understand that point of view. I do not believe Malenia is a 'flawless' boss which unfortunately putting on S+ tier number 1 might implicitly imply that. One of the things for me is her waterfowl dance making her unique and posing a visceral problem for my 25 vigor playthrough, forcing me to retreat for the first time in my adventure, to come back later with more vigor and stronger physical defense talismans. Usually that doesn't happen. If an adjustment is needed, it is never that steep. She kinda forced my hand which was surprising on a blind playthrough. I have also refrained from showing footage of Malenia where I understand her well. This footage I've used here is one with lots of mistakes and inaccuracies. The good ones I'm saving to talk about in my Malenia analysis video. Overall, I know you like gameplay a lot Sargatas and I hope you enjoyed the video overall ;)) Doing that intro took a long time to edit. Glad you liked it
@@Ontos99 I just stacked up damage resists to survive the first attack of waterfowl if she would use it in close proximity, then dodged the rest. Then I heard a great idea from someone: to block with a weapon (if I don't have a shield) and then dodge into the attack getting just slightly hit. And since then I fight her this way😁 But ya, video is great. I might not agree with you every time but I admit that you have very unique view on things. Youwy said that almost every big boss in DLC will be strong and aggressive. He considered this as a flaw but I'm quite interested. The stronger the better. And please no scripted animations😖
@@Ontos99 btw belive it or not, but my favorite boss in my first playthrough was Astel😁I don't know why but I like him and Elden Beast. Yes, they like to run away from me, but they at least shoot from a distance. Unlike fire giant that is the most boring fight in the game with these two the flow of the fight remains constant. Maybe I just have too much patience but these fights feel like meditation)
@@Sargatas I think Astel is better than Fire giant BY A LONG SHOT and a bit better than Elden Beast. It is an interesting sci fi space themed fight lol
And why are you running away from commander niall? I thought fromsoft designed these bosses so perfectly that you can attack in the middle of boss combos 😂😂
Hoarah loux is F tier for me because my pc runs like dogsht. my fps is dropping to 20 in Ash Leyndel. and everytime it drops as I was also pressing a button. the game won't register the input so my character would just stand there and do nothing for a sec lol.
Confused about your Godfrey rating. So, his fight is too natural and intuitive to be good? No instant followups that you just have to know about and pre-roll, no excessive lingering AoEs or explosions, no combo chaining to punish going for openings. Too fair? "Too clean. It lacks a bit of chaos". Does this mean "throw some bs at me please"? :D Why is Mohg is S+ then? He has very similar attributes of fair and intuitive, while also having a noticeably simpler moveset I'd argue.
@@Ontos99 Godfrey also has delayed moves, they just make more sense, it's not him standing there menacingly with a weapon raised for a comical amount of time, you know what I mean? :)
@@HaronYoungerBro Yes. Godfrey also has delayed moves but they are focused more on ground attacks and not on swings which is more fundamental in my eyes. Mohg is a less intuitive boss while Godfrey is a lot more sensible. Dont think of it as "Mohg is more BS" which he is not. Godfrey does require more tricky timings in his moveset if he wants to compete with Godrick let alone challenge the S tier bosses in my eyes (Morgott and Radagon)
@@Ontos99 he has at least two delayed axe attacks I can remember off the top of my head. Dragging it on the ground and his combo finisher where he spins around with a delayed axe slam. Mohg has no bs, I agree, which is why I'm confused he's significantly higher than Godfrey given your general preferences.
@@Ontos99 also, if tricky timings are this important, then how is Malenia so high? Her every move is extremely well telegraphed and intuitive regardless of speed. She moves towards you - you dodge, and she will never catch you. She even gives you a tell to react to for every flurry of the waterfowl. I generally would agree with this rating of her, but again, it clashes with your other ratings in this list
You put Radahn at S and Rykard at C lol, they’re both just cinematic cool fights. Malania is not S tier simply because of how unintuitive WFD is, if the majority of the player base needs to search up the solution to a single move then it’s bad game design at least imo.
Radahn is much more mechanically rich than Rykard. I'm assuming you summoned the NPCs and experienced it as a gang fight? Solo, he is very enjoyable to me but I can imagine it feeling more spectacle focused when you do it like a gang fight
@@Ontos99 solo he’s just a stand under his leg and make him whiff all his attacks simulator, that’s how far his complexity goes. When you master a fight it should be more fun, not more boring.
I think the bosses are excellent. But it took me time to learn and I needed patience. Combos are longer now and you need to exploit stance mixing jumping and charged attacks. My first play through was with summon ashes and that skews the fights they are much more controllable solo I find. At RL1 I spent a lot of time soloing Malenia and Radagon but it layed the ground work for my understanding of the game.
Great video but i wish it was ranked more objectively instead of this weird first playthough with 25 vigor for some reason and missing half the bosses. Also, radahn is designed to be an experience with summons and torrent i dont know why would you even rate it without those things
I think Radahn is a better boss solo and without torrent. If I used NPC summons, the fight would turn into a gang fight which sounds cool but Radahn is not capable of juggling so many enemies at once
Haha in this footage I was using an unupgraded weapon (I think) so the HP actually felt well balanced here but my first playthrough, he died very fast and seemed to have a reduced HP
But he does...he's right about that😁If you come to him matched by your level you will obliterate him already, I don't even speak of what will happen to him in overleveled situation.
I dont think it is terrible. Just the conclusions like "Look malenia doesnt play by the game's rules and breaks them" is flawed. I can see why he made this video and understand his thought process/angle
When you make opinion posts you open up yourself to A LOT of criticism lol. My favorite fight is Radahn by a long shot. It's an a huge open area and I feel bad for that poor horse he rides. You know I just beat the GS Duo on my first try for the first time the other night?? Was totally shocked. How can you not have the Soldier of Godrick???? Com'on man!!! ;)
haha I love Radahn. He is a mini adventure and I was impressed by many of his design decisions. His sense of presence and scale is unprecedented and as someone who is rarely a fan of semi-giant or big bosses, damn is Radahn crazy good. He blew me away when I defeated him my first time and I remember screaming with joy in my room.
Ah so Malenia is designed to be garbage thanks for explaining that. Nothing is ever more annyoing when you know you are supposed to get a stance break and its ignored on a whim, invalidating a spell or skill, or something clearly meant for trading damage. Theres no reason to defend her hyper armor being infinite, Maria exists and Friede exists and they are much better bosses. Its just lazy design, fitting for her lazy moveset. Best boss in the game? Not even close. Glad I skipped to this point to see if you knew what you were talking about.
@@Ontos99 Radahn definitely was hard but I still walked away from it thinking "that wasn't as bad as Margit" lol. I think I tried too long to power through Margit before going to go explore. I love all Fromsoft games but am sort of a slow learner ha ha and Margit gives you ton to learn.
I expected the FIre Giant slander but was still surprised lol Challenge runs leave players with an extremely bad taste in their mouth. Even just looking at the footage makes me sigh because it's just that unpleasant for such a lumbering boss with gigantic hitboxes and HP. Akin to Rykard but worse and without the serpent hunter, essentially. So on that account alone, it's self-explanatory. I also expected the defense of Malenia in the terms presented. Not because I think it's a prosaic and therefore unsurprising rebuttal, but because it's the logical one. As you stated, individuals who mechanically (in the sense of game logic) critique Malenia on such grounds speak as if the design wasn't 100% intentional, or otherwise adopt a tone that it's somehow devious in nature. In other words, people mask their opinions in statements of fact that do not logically follow, at all. Malenia stagger cancels? Yes. So it's unfair and breaks game logic? Uh no. People should, as the saying goes, man up and simply state "I don't like the fight on my terms". This is entirely acceptable and much more preferable. But this is likely something you will cover in the Malenia vid. Like I said previously, I also think when you like something that's strongly disliked on average it helps to put things into perspective. As for the DLC, I've remained mostly clean except for some community post images. It seems ER might be mechanically altered/updated once the DLC drops (a fundamentally enhanced game), so I wonder if you (and many others, I suppose) will go through a post-DLC base game tier list because of some interesting change. Well, time will certainly tell.
Yes. Fire Giant's tankiness and my low damage per se aren't my issues as that is true for most bosses. It is just this fight takes a very long time to play for me (maybe I'm just stupid) and I died so many times close to 10% of his HP bar. Yes. I'll cover that in my Malenia video. I even held off on showing footage of my more successful attempts on Malenia (attempts where I understand her much better on many levels) to save it for my analysis video. So far, I was able to stay pure and radiant. I don't know any images or community posts. If, as you say, something that fundamental occurs regarding a mechanical enhancement post DLC (I don't even know what you are talking about exactly but it piqued my interest haha) I would remake this tier list. Well I'm happy to learn more about what you are talking about in 11 days ;)))
@@Ontos99 Deaths at 10% in a challenge run sounds infuriating lol I'm definitely not built for that - I tried Malenia and it was exhausting and I gave up because of the patience threshold. It would make me hate the boss for sure. The "hardest" thing I've done was beating Malenia with a torch. Though it was fun once I actually relaxed and learned to enjoy the flow of it. I am interested in hearing you speak more on Malenia at length, since I believe it may represent Fromsoft's idea of what a "hard" boss is for the future and why they the devs decided to commit to that type of design for a single boss, specifically. I'm also not sure what's so special about DLC content mechanically, maybe I got the wrong idea from picking up certain words, but I think there's more to it than just more x and more y and z, something they've never done with their DLC before. Though a specific stat scaling for the DLC is also entirely new, but that's another subject. Staying pure and radiant is the way. The small stuff is my fault anyway for browsing around defiantly. I learned Oroboro has a vid explaining the DLC scaling and it's supposed to be spoiler-free, but before watching it I noticed that someone pointed out he says the name of the Shadow Tree (I suppose it has its own name? That's fascinating) and I thought NOPE. If I hear/read that word, whatever it is, it's gonna keep me up at night until the 21st lol Eleven days it is. EASY.
@@kimlee6643 These mechanics related stuff are not that important in my eyes. The real issue is to get spoiled on some nice enemy or boss design or worse, a plot related idea or some secret landscape. (like being spoiled on Siofra river elevator on a video before being 'wowed' by it yourself) I was only semi aggressive (like 70%) in this Malenia footage which is why you don't see her posture broken often in the 2nd phase. With complete aggression, she is on her knees every 10 seconds but I don't want to spoil my victory run just yet ;)) About Fromsoftware adopting Malenia as a reference for their future bosses, I do not know. They might slowly cater more to her style but I'd be happy to see that unlike most people. That Malenia video will happen after I do the combat analysis on DLC bosses. I'll already show many of my techniques and strategies on this Let's play as it will be a challenge run for a blind playthrough. 25 vigor usually means 2-3 hits at most on late game Elden Ring. And 3 hits is me being generous. If I feel like the bosses are able to hit me 4 times and I still survive, I'd use a larval tear to reduce my vigor. So I plan to figure out majority of the boss weaknesses in this first playthrough with all of you guys. I will only edit my failures if I die too many times.(which is possible and will happen actually) I can't wait to see how strong Messmer is let alone that 'boss who is as hard as Malenia' as Miyazaki alluded to.
@@kimlee6643 It is very infuriating which is why I no longer fight Fire giant SL1, I increase my vigor to 60 and use a fully upgraded weapon to enjoy his spectacle more and not worry about being perfect.
Yeah after fighting Malenia many times I have the dodge roll perfected against waterfowl. Its definitely hard but its not THAT hard lol. I wouldn’t really call it a bad mechanic, its more of a “you have no room for error” mechanic.
![เปิด อาณาจักร หมื่นล้าน "สาระตั้ม" l [Nickynachat]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/3XE0nPF4YkQ/mqdefault.jpg)
You are so wrong because Regal Ancestor Spirit is S+++ tier because of the OST alone
Mimic Tear is only bad if you're bad
Elden Beast is good you just need to go for a jog a few times a week to get your cardio up
Fire Giant is big and cool
Sorry Ontos, although you are exceptionally skilled at Elden Ring, have excellent analytical skills, and thoroughly broke down the pros and cons to each boss fight you are missing just how cool the big bosses are.
For that I put this video in S tier, not S+ tier. Great stuff as always!
Fire Giant gang rise up!
Aye jack is new to me! Subbed earlier this week. Cool to see you here
S tier is good! I'll take it!!
Glad you enjoyed it, Jack. Especially since you also love Elden Beast and would like to see the space balloon a bit higher ;))
I'll be honest the only hot take is Valiant Gargoyle Due in B, they are poop poop. Only time I had any fun was with an NPC summon or spirit, arena is okay, but yeah solid video.
the fire giant is such a shitty boss because the camera is actively working against you.
Easily the best Elden Ring content creator out there, and one of the few that actually appreciates both the Lore and Gameplay equally.
Thank you for your kind words
This is a true fan right here. The passion for the game you can tell.
Yes. I love Elden Ring!
Man, enjoyed this so much because even though I am not a challenge runner, this self restrained melee style is how I best enjoy the games. The impaling thrust ash of war with spear talisman is when the game really clicked for me because it doesn't do crazy damage normally but if you can land your hit in during the attack animation including the follow through/retraction at the end, you get 50% extra damage + extra stagger along with an already high poise damage of 30. This made me play with an offensive philosophy of trying to either hit in the frames right before or right after an attack and dodge/evade as needed as opposed to the DS3/BB defensive philosophy of 'focus on dodging all the boss attacks first and attack however you can from that state'.
Most tier lists/critiques i've seen are either dodge-pilled vets complaining that there's no middle ground difficulty for melee or 'power fantasy' pilled newer players whose rankings I just personally cannot relate to because they are on some hyper optimised nuked AOW mimic tear build. It's great to see someone whose rankings I can empathise with.
In terms of mechanical perfection and preciseness required for a 'normal' player, Fume Knight is still the best boss imo. The cycle of dodging and counter attacking later is a lot more fun in the first 2 DS games because there was barely any i frames so you had to actually evade the weapon's swing as opposed to just dodge through it. It's very different from DS3 and BB in terms of mechanical intricacy imo.
I totally agree with everything your saying, it's hilarious to me that people want these games to be masterable within like 2 weeks of playing. I typically play competitive shooters like counter-strike, trying to get to a high rank takes many many hours of practice so practicing a boss for a day or two to be able to beat it isn't much in comparison. In terms of the "it can be difficult, but not fun" complaint, I agree with you again. There are countless no-hit runs where people are hyper aggressive and if that game play doesn't look fun then honestly I don't know what does. I genuinely just think these people got their ass beat for a day or two and were so offended that they lost so many times that they created entire video essays to make themselves feel better. Also there are like 5 videos that are just the exact same thing as that Joseph Anderson one with nothing different.
I remember one time someone said "everytime I die in a souls game I just remember that means I have more time to play it" I remember that when I think sometimes too hard. Also on a side-note if someone thinks something is too hard they could just use summoning ashes, there are so many different ones that you could spawn yourself in a kind of weak one just to make it a little easier, or use a mimic tear to just plow through the boss. Totally up to the player for how much of a challenge they want.
Thats right. I agree with everything you said here
I dont care what you say fire giant is trash elden beast is trash and maliketh is trash
sorry, but godfrey is the best boss in the game because he has a rhythm with his attacks, you cant get greedy, and its like a dance. S++
He is a very fun and well designed boss for sure
Giga take akin to your profile pic
Godfrey is so powerful he drops your framerate to 7 fps everytime he stomps
@@WhySoSeriousSenpai not for me, but that sounds like gigadaddy godfrey
@@TheTylerCathey yea him god i hate these boss names lol
Your videos are amazing, I am blown away honestly, very informative with consistent reasonings behind your tier-list, still man that Elden Beast F tier hurt my soul, but I get it, can’t wait for the DLC, it’s so close lol. I am waiting for your Malenia video.
Well, Elden beast is definitely better than Fire Giant. I enjoy him more! I hope that makes you feel better :p
My Malenia video will happen after the DLC playthrough. I cant wait to see that 'as hard as Malenia' boss Miyazaki talked about.
I want to see that boss' challenge blind and go 'Ok. I think this is our man (or woman)'
And all of you guys will witness that moment in my Let's play. I will edit my failures and talk about my rationale on how I approach their attacks or what I think about while rolling in this or that direction.
It should be fun hopefully. Glad you enjoyed this video once again. Much love,
@@Ontos99 Yes absolutely, this did make me feel better lol, yeah take as much time as you need, because you cook banger videos! Will watch your playthrough of the DLC as well!
My favorite is Maliketh for everything you've said basically. I personally rank Malenia at C, despite agreeing with your explanation of how she's designed. Though at that point that's just a matter of preference. There's nothing about her that has felt insurmountable for me, or particularly unfair, but I just didn't personally enjoy the way her fight flows. I didn't do RL1 or RL1+0 vs her, but I did learn enough to hitless her, but I still didn't get that same sense of joy for beating her in such a way.
Your take on Valiant Gargoyles was definitely spicy though. I don't really see anyone talk about them in that way, and I can definitely see how that delayed arrival can make their gank fight better than others of their kind.
Maliketh is a boss I find (in terms of ranking) almost in my top 3. I actually think he is a stronger boss in terms of mechanical variety than both Radahn and Mohg. Since both Clergyman and Maliketh has individual movesets and countless weaknesses.
When it comes to S and S+ tier, I actually like all of them on a similar level for different reasons. They all have slight advantages and disadvantages in comparison. The true tier list starts with A-B-C... in my book.
The sheer fact that there are so many S and S+ tier bosses in Elden Ring is a testament to its design quality imo. Rarely would I put so many bosses on top tiers.
@@Ontos99 I definitely agree on how the bosses are made in this game. Plenty of fantastic fights to figure out, and understand if one wants to learn the ins and outs to get the dance down to get a fantastic time out of them. I just also throw in my personal enjoyment on top of the context, theming, and overall mechanics of the fight. I'm chomping at the bit to see how the dlc bosses will play out once the dlc is in our hands to explore, and really dig into.
Margit is the reason I put hundreds of hours into this game without ever playing a souls game before. Yes, I will probably never get that shock back. Going in as a total noob confused as all hell and just taking in the amazing detail of the game, it was a challenge for me at the time to even reach this mofo, and then BOOM. He kicked my ass over and over again.... yeah, S+ without a doubt.
While I agree Malenia is the #1 boss... that dude beat me silly until I figured out how to play the game xD
Great list!
Another Margit enjoyer, I see. My teacher, friend and first road block ;))
I replay these games for the challenge and the bosses, and as of now, most older Souls games don’t challenge me the way Elden Ring bosses continue to do. Malenia is the peak of that challenge, and successfully dodging Waterfowl Dance is always an amazing feeling. I also love how easy she gets once you figure out how to keep up the aggressive stance, breaking her stance repeatedly and constantly getting hits in between her combos.
The biggest mistake I see new players make when fighting Malenia, in particular, is that they get too comfortable punishing some attacks and don’t take advantage of all the openings, scared of Malenia's pace. However, the flaw in that logic is that you’re just dragging out the fight, creating more opportunities for the AI to roll the dice and land on Waterfowl Dance, ending your run.
The greatest example of this is Kai Cenat. He beat her, but that wasn’t an easy feat. Looking at his strategy, he only learned how to punish the easy moves and just stuck to that, too scared to unlearn his bad habits for a short period in exchange for becoming better further down the line.
Yes. It is fun to be relentless against Malenia and to exploit as much as possible. Glad you enjoyed it.
Finally someone that agrees with me on Elden Beast!!!
I dont think an F tier on Elden beast is a hot take at all. Some people may give him E or D but that still doesnt make him a "stellar boss" imo
Its nice seeing someone who actually appreciates elden rings imo superior boss design rank the bosses. Funny thing about me is that I prefer Fortissax to Placidusax, and I also consider Placi A tier. I encountered Fortissax before going to Leyndell, so he was by far the coolest boss up to that point. Dodging the double spear and then the sky glaive as the second phase music kicks in was just too iconic to me. The fight itself is cool too because its a nod to midir where you're supposed to hit his head not his legs because if you go to close to him it'll summon that lightning on you that detonates after a couple seconds. I also like how his lightning slashes have that detonate effect, rollcatching you if you have bad positioning. He's a bit tanky for when I fought him, but it was still really fun and underrated
Yes. I believe I was unable to appreciate Fortissax for many reasons on a personal level.
Placi coming before him for me is one reason. I was also over levelled by a lot which meant losing all tension in the fight. Some of his cool attacks I couldnt quite see etc.
I plan to give him a proper try some other time and balance my perception of him.
@@Ontos99 I personally recommend fighting him before Morgott with like a +15ish weapon. I imagine your first fight with him lasted less than a minute when for me he's usually one of the longer midgame fights
Ontos, dude, you even know how refreshing it is to finally come across a boss tier list done by a person who actually knows what they are talking about?!
this was amazing. although i disagree a bit about EB and FG, my tier list almost looks identical to yours. so, yeah.
Btw, the moment i saw you refuse using Wave of Destruction against Malenia in her Bloom, you earned my respect. frick spamming, who needs that when you can hold your ground fighting straight?
Tell me your opinions on where you'd place EB and FG?
I prefer close combat melee unless there is a very good reason to use projectile attacks.
I do not use it especially since my opponent shines on close combat ;))
@@Ontos99 I'd put EB & FG above Astel. imo, while agreeing with everything you said about EB, it's still a better Boss/fight than Astel. Although Astel looks "Cool", fighting him as a melee lover is clunky and unexciting; Borderline boring.
The Design of Elden Beast's model is something very inspired and unique. as an Astronomy enthusiast I screamed "Laniakea?!!!" when I saw it emerged from the waters for the first time. and let's not forget the beautiful and divine music and it's interaction with the hits done by the player. I'd happily run after him every time instead of fighting Astel.
But it remains in low tier for me. because of what you mentioned; it marred the mechanically-rich, story-coherent Radagon fight. it felt so disconnected and irrelevant to my lore-unaware brain in my first playthrough. just a beautiful space dinosaur with annoying moveset. (Low D / High E)
Fire Giant; it might be a hot take but i think the biggest problem with that boss is not him but the Arena. the uneven terrain there is just horrible (that fkin big rock in the middle). the camera/FOV makes it almost impossible to fully see what he's up too. it's like fighting a huge leg. but I like his moveset. it's fair (except for the Fire Breath ricochet) and simple. and we also have Torrent there.
I'd put him just below EB. (High E)
I'd put Astel in F. can't stomach that abomination. and let's not forget Godefroy. he goes to F Tier even Below Astel.
Man, Malenia is such a can of worms. But I do wanna point out an issue I rarely see talked about; she doesn't follow standard boss AI for group fights against her. Durring her clone attack she'll just target players and summons at random, and rack up giant piles of healing. It's also a move I've always found harder to dodge than waterfowl, having less telegraph than it (she can just suddenly be flying above you causing scarlet rot and near leathal immediate damage on NG++ and beyond) and much more strictly positioningy-dependant attack locations. Also when I say she attacks at random, I do mean it durring the clone rush. My friends and I have gotten pretty good at manipulating boss aggression because we've found a lot of fun recently in bosses being treated like raid encounters with one of us climbing NG+s over and over while the others chip in to increase the boss HP pool even further. Malenia is the most comically easy boss until she activates a waterfowl you can't see through the mage's spells (admittedly skill issue lol), or she goes into her clone attack where she'll be attacking just...whoever. Had one friend try to draw agro cus he was full HP and knew both of the other 2 were not. So Malenia visibly faced him in the attack while he hit her, and then sent her even clones after one of us, odd on the other of us, and then sent one clone at him that, due to how the clones attack in a really unbalanced fashion, just kinda instantly teleported a hit box ontop of one of us while we were dodging the clones that were intended for us.
I think seeing just how awkward and jenky that attack was in a group-setting really just is the nail in the coffin that we've been justifying a lot of broken and buggy mechanics for Malenia as "intended" when they really just work in the most random ways that don't really seem to follow any rhyme or reason. Like why does she get hyper armor at varrying random points durring her grab move? Sometimes you can just toss her out of it with a regular light attack from a spear and other times attacks that launch her can't dislodge her from doing it, just...at random as far as I can tell.
margit being harder and more complex boss than godrick makes sense in lore how he weeds out the tarnished so they wont get godricks greatrune but its also kinda ironic that margit preps you to sweep floor with godrick
I’m at Malekith on my RL9 run (started with Samurai class) and it’s hell. Really can’t make 1 mistake. Great list!
Malileth is not easy. But it is such a high quality fight. An easy S+ tier
Good video. However I do believe Elden beast should be placed a little higher. Here are my two reasons:
-in regards to the Elden beast running away/moving around a lot I find this to be somewhat overblown because many of the Elden beasts attacks where it “runs away” it comes straight back and with attacks like its ring attack if you turn 180 degrees and run the opposite direction the boss usually just pops up right next to you. I honestly believe bosses like Midir and Sinh run away more than Elden beast.
-secondly one thing I appreciate about the Elden beast mechanically is how in its second phase it can shoot out multiple attacks at once and you have to dodge both at the same time which I find very satisfying to pull off.
For these reasons I would probably put Elden beast in C or B tier.
Regardless good luck with your next video!
i have a lore question regarding marika’s hammer since you mentioned it in the video. the description for the hammer’s ash of war says that jump attack is radagon’s signature move. does that mean he was using the same hammer before shattering?
By the time shattering has occured, Radagon and Marika were a single being in a single body. This means Marika's hammer is also Radagon's hammer. Marika attempted to shatter the ER with it while shapeshifting with Radagon attempting to mend it similarly by using this same hammer.
However, Marika's will won out in the end and Radagon failed to mend the Elden Ring. His resistance to shattering the ER was deflected by his other self, Marika.
In another sense, Radagon tried to, one last time, exert some of his individual will and desire but Marika has enforced her will at the end. By shattering the elden ring. Hope this makes sense. Much love,
@@Ontos99 i know he used that hammer to try to repair the elden ring but i wonder if he used the same hammer in the wars he participated before. otherwise it wouldn’t be called his signature attack i guess.
@@blamepluto7308 of course it is possible BUT there are actual risks to this. Also the "Brick Hammer" weapon description alludes to that, he may not. Radagon is that giant reffered to there as the champion who used that weapon. Using Marika's hammer as Radagon is a dead giveaway of his connection to Marika. So it doesnt make sense for him to use it.
This "Signature attack move" is reffering specifically to Radagon boss battle and the move he used against us. It doesnt (imo) has ramifications for Radagon's battle techniques in prior wars.
Hope this helps. Much love
Was gideon rhe al knowing covered?
Nah but he is a C or D tier boss
Yeah after fighting Malenia many times I have the dodge roll perfected against waterfowl. Its hard but its not THAT hard lol. I wouldn’t really call it a bad mechanic, its more of a “you have no room for error” mechanic.
The issue imo is she can start it in a bad moment. Maybe you are in a recovery animation or maybe you are not moving the analogue stick too intently etc.
If you dont react lightning fast, you wont be able to do a perfect dodge and will need to do some tanking of damage.
But thats fine. It is a part of Malenia's mechanics in my eyes. You need to "just survive" if it happens at a really bad or weird time
The Mimic tear wouldn't be that bad if you had more than 25 vigor my dude. I believe it does 3x your HP.
Great video, your view are mostly similar to mine. Can't wait to see what you have to say about the DLC.
Not a lot of time left now ;))
I actually really enjoy the Elden Beast, Regal Ancestor Spirit and Rennala fights, but I’m aware I’m in the minority. I’m more of an atmosphere over complex mechanics kinda Souls fan, though.
Still, I enjoy a good challenge, and I will always defend the Malenia fight cuz the feeling of pure euphoria I get every time I successfully dodge waterfall dance without taking damage is something I’ve never gotten out of any other game.
I see what you mean
Good analysis! I agree with you about most of the bosses, but I don't think it was fair for you to criticise Fire Giant for being able to one-shot you when you admit that the reason for that happening with other bosses was due to your low-Vigor stat build though.
Do you think your opinion on Elden Beast could change now that the ability to use Torrent in the fight has been patched in? Personally I think they are well-balanced for fighting on foot.
Yes. My opinion on Elden Beast might change now thanks to torrent. I have to play it to say anything tho. I can probably now put him on at least E tier.
Well, Fire Giant annoys me even with 60 vigor. I don't like the fight.
Very good Boss Tier list
A bit controversial take maybe but hey. She won me over for sure ;))
I think just ask them which boss is the best and they can't pick one
I mean there are many great bosses Morgott, Radahn, Mohg, Maliketh (without first phase cuz it's sucks😂😂😂) even Radagon but if you have to choose only one Malenia will have the advantage because she has it all
oh, your ranking of regal ancestral spirit made me sad, but i kinda get it. i think the atmosphere, music, color design, and lore really push this up for me. my most disappointing fight is probably Renalla. such an important lore boss and we get that? i wasn't particularly high leveled, Elden Ring is my first souls game, and I had relative ease defeating her on the second try. i remember saying "wait, i thought these games were supposed to be hard?!" 😂
11 MORE DAYS!!!! 🎉🎉🎉
Renalla is very disappointing haha. But I feel bad for her as Marika had already destroyed her entire career and life. So I gave her some slack with D tier ;))
Ancestor spirit is really a nice spectacle boss. It is just my preference to keep less combo flowchart heavy bosses a bit lower in my list.
After the Intro: If Morgott isn't in S+, I'll riot. I think he exemplifies everything you said in the opening
edit:
I didn't watch the final bit of the opening where you talked about contextually and thematic richness. I think your reasoning good. I agree, Morgott is I think the best boss mechanically, but I I look at him as a whole, he lacks a little something about his fight.
Overall a very fair list, where I agree with many of the placements, which makes sense since I seem to have a very similar perspective to you when it comes to what I value in the bosses. The only placements I disagree with are Elden Beast and Fire Giant. I get their lack of mechanical interestingness, but I do enjoy these fights. My main critizism of both is their jankyness, which makes them quite frustrating on low health/ hitless fights. But I like their spectacle. For Fire Giant Phase 2 is interesting enough for me and I always appreciate a giant-boss-type battle where you actually have the boss in full view and are not just hacking at their ankles. As for Elden Beast - sure there is some running, but often you have to dodge something while doing it and it ends up being quite meditative for me, which is kind of fitting for the final fight. I do agree though, that Radagon should have been a fully fleshed out boss with a checkpoint between him and Elden Beast.
Don't worry. His placement in this list (imo) will be explained well enough soon when it is time to talk about him ;)) I really love Morgott!!
It is nice to see that there are other people that also realize that Sekiro combat isn't necessarily superior than souls combat in every regards. The fundamentals such as spacing and positioning are almost no existence in Sekiro, and those fundamentals that make souls game alot more depts and fun to master than just typical dodge simulator people often jokingly refer them as. These fundamentals are pretty obvious for any semi competent PVPers but for the majority of souls player, they are not really require to beat the game casually. That is why when ER bosses require player to have a bit more knowledgeable about positioning to get opening, many souls PVE veteran might not be able wrap their heads around how they suppose to find opening to punish. That being said, I still think that Sekiro combat have much more potential so I actually refer if their next melee centric game will expand on the combat of Sekiro over souls combat.
Let me propose a path where Sekiro 2 can improve on the Sekiro fundamentals.
Add 'Perfect dodge' similar to Ghost of tsushima as a mechanic.
Make sure there are directional advantages or spacing related challenges in fights.
Also, tighten up the parry windows more.
---
I think Sekiro 2 would be noticeably improved if they can integrate these 3 things.
Of course, I'd like to see the level design improved by a lot. Let alone the OST.
I agree with Malenia, but disagree with Elden Beast. Well, it's really not that fun to play catch up with a boss, but damn, it's one of the most beautiful and spectacular fight in Fromsoftware games. That's already a reason to love it.
Yes. I'd definitely rate it higher if I was a spectacle focused person
You're still have the best Elden Ring openings on the market😁
Interesting point of view about Malenia btw...though I would disagree about first place because this boss is completely harmless 99% of the time and then can oneshot you with one move that is as counterintuitive as humanly possible. It's not hardness, it's simple beating a wall with trial and error until it breaks. I doubt that centering a boss around one particular attack and the rest of the time she is easy as hell is good difficulty balancing. Maliketh can oneshot you with literally any attack if you get caught. But he has very low HP, his attacks are very slow and highly telegraphed and when he kills you - it's 100% your fault. With Malenia you have a good portion of luck included which is unacceptable. I would say that waterfowl dance is the single bad attack in the whole game. At least this is mine point of view.
Yes, I do understand that point of view. I do not believe Malenia is a 'flawless' boss which unfortunately putting on S+ tier number 1 might implicitly imply that.
One of the things for me is her waterfowl dance making her unique and posing a visceral problem for my 25 vigor playthrough, forcing me to retreat for the first time in my adventure, to come back later with more vigor and stronger physical defense talismans.
Usually that doesn't happen. If an adjustment is needed, it is never that steep. She kinda forced my hand which was surprising on a blind playthrough.
I have also refrained from showing footage of Malenia where I understand her well. This footage I've used here is one with lots of mistakes and inaccuracies. The good ones I'm saving to talk about in my Malenia analysis video.
Overall, I know you like gameplay a lot Sargatas and I hope you enjoyed the video overall ;))
Doing that intro took a long time to edit. Glad you liked it
@@Ontos99 I just stacked up damage resists to survive the first attack of waterfowl if she would use it in close proximity, then dodged the rest. Then I heard a great idea from someone: to block with a weapon (if I don't have a shield) and then dodge into the attack getting just slightly hit. And since then I fight her this way😁
But ya, video is great. I might not agree with you every time but I admit that you have very unique view on things.
Youwy said that almost every big boss in DLC will be strong and aggressive. He considered this as a flaw but I'm quite interested. The stronger the better. And please no scripted animations😖
@@Ontos99 btw belive it or not, but my favorite boss in my first playthrough was Astel😁I don't know why but I like him and Elden Beast. Yes, they like to run away from me, but they at least shoot from a distance. Unlike fire giant that is the most boring fight in the game with these two the flow of the fight remains constant. Maybe I just have too much patience but these fights feel like meditation)
@@Sargatas I think Astel is better than Fire giant BY A LONG SHOT and a bit better than Elden Beast.
It is an interesting sci fi space themed fight lol
@@Ontos99 and he has my favorite AOW😃
And why are you running away from commander niall? I thought fromsoft designed these bosses so perfectly that you can attack in the middle of boss combos 😂😂
Hoarah loux is F tier for me because my pc runs like dogsht. my fps is dropping to 20 in Ash Leyndel. and everytime it drops as I was also pressing a button. the game won't register the input so my character would just stand there and do nothing for a sec lol.
Sorry to hear that. Glad you could finish the game though
Where would a second gen Albinuric sit on this list?!?!?!?!?
S+
S++
This is so based, I'm going to share this around
;))
Confused about your Godfrey rating. So, his fight is too natural and intuitive to be good? No instant followups that you just have to know about and pre-roll, no excessive lingering AoEs or explosions, no combo chaining to punish going for openings. Too fair?
"Too clean. It lacks a bit of chaos". Does this mean "throw some bs at me please"? :D
Why is Mohg is S+ then? He has very similar attributes of fair and intuitive, while also having a noticeably simpler moveset I'd argue.
First of all, Mohg has lots of delayed attacks and follow ups that can be confusing.
Godfrey is much more turn based dodge and attack/clean fight
@@Ontos99 Godfrey also has delayed moves, they just make more sense, it's not him standing there menacingly with a weapon raised for a comical amount of time, you know what I mean? :)
@@HaronYoungerBro Yes. Godfrey also has delayed moves but they are focused more on ground attacks and not on swings which is more fundamental in my eyes.
Mohg is a less intuitive boss while Godfrey is a lot more sensible. Dont think of it as "Mohg is more BS" which he is not. Godfrey does require more tricky timings in his moveset if he wants to compete with Godrick let alone challenge the S tier bosses in my eyes (Morgott and Radagon)
@@Ontos99 he has at least two delayed axe attacks I can remember off the top of my head. Dragging it on the ground and his combo finisher where he spins around with a delayed axe slam.
Mohg has no bs, I agree, which is why I'm confused he's significantly higher than Godfrey given your general preferences.
@@Ontos99 also, if tricky timings are this important, then how is Malenia so high? Her every move is extremely well telegraphed and intuitive regardless of speed. She moves towards you - you dodge, and she will never catch you. She even gives you a tell to react to for every flurry of the waterfowl. I generally would agree with this rating of her, but again, it clashes with your other ratings in this list
You put Radahn at S and Rykard at C lol, they’re both just cinematic cool fights.
Malania is not S tier simply because of how unintuitive WFD is, if the majority of the player base needs to search up the solution to a single move then it’s bad game design at least imo.
Radahn is much more mechanically rich than Rykard. I'm assuming you summoned the NPCs and experienced it as a gang fight?
Solo, he is very enjoyable to me but I can imagine it feeling more spectacle focused when you do it like a gang fight
@@Ontos99 solo he’s just a stand under his leg and make him whiff all his attacks simulator, that’s how far his complexity goes.
When you master a fight it should be more fun, not more boring.
I think the bosses are excellent. But it took me time to learn and I needed patience. Combos are longer now and you need to exploit stance mixing jumping and charged attacks. My first play through was with summon ashes and that skews the fights they are much more controllable solo I find. At RL1 I spent a lot of time soloing Malenia and Radagon but it layed the ground work for my understanding of the game.
That's great! It was Margit that taught me many of the game's mechanics.
If Fromsoft ever comes around to make another femboy character like Lothric or Miquella, you should apply.
Havent seen a troll in my comment section in a long time. Welcome buddy.
The hardest boss on my no vigor run was Gideon lmao.
Wasnt that big of a deal imo but I got you. He can be annoying ;))
@@Ontos99 I was using bloodhounds fang so I couldn’t pancake him infinitely.
Great video but i wish it was ranked more objectively instead of this weird first playthough with 25 vigor for some reason and missing half the bosses.
Also, radahn is designed to be an experience with summons and torrent i dont know why would you even rate it without those things
I think Radahn is a better boss solo and without torrent. If I used NPC summons, the fight would turn into a gang fight which sounds cool but Radahn is not capable of juggling so many enemies at once
you’re insane 😭 elemer too little hp?
Haha in this footage I was using an unupgraded weapon (I think) so the HP actually felt well balanced here but my first playthrough, he died very fast and seemed to have a reduced HP
But he does...he's right about that😁If you come to him matched by your level you will obliterate him already, I don't even speak of what will happen to him in overleveled situation.
@@Ontos99 😭 really? He was one of the harder bosses for me i’m not gonna lie, and i just beat maliketh first try
Based opinion on Malenia
That “Malenia doesnt play by the rules video” was terrible
I dont think it is terrible. Just the conclusions like "Look malenia doesnt play by the game's rules and breaks them" is flawed. I can see why he made this video and understand his thought process/angle
Do more tier list of both fromsoft games and xenoblade
Oh what sort of tier list would you like to see about Xenoblade? Let me know
When you make opinion posts you open up yourself to A LOT of criticism lol. My favorite fight is Radahn by a long shot. It's an a huge open area and I feel bad for that poor horse he rides. You know I just beat the GS Duo on my first try for the first time the other night?? Was totally shocked. How can you not have the Soldier of Godrick???? Com'on man!!! ;)
haha I love Radahn. He is a mini adventure and I was impressed by many of his design decisions. His sense of presence and scale is unprecedented and as someone who is rarely a fan of semi-giant or big bosses, damn is Radahn crazy good. He blew me away when I defeated him my first time and I remember screaming with joy in my room.
Ah so Malenia is designed to be garbage thanks for explaining that.
Nothing is ever more annyoing when you know you are supposed to get a stance break and its ignored on a whim, invalidating a spell or skill, or something clearly meant for trading damage.
Theres no reason to defend her hyper armor being infinite, Maria exists and Friede exists and they are much better bosses.
Its just lazy design, fitting for her lazy moveset.
Best boss in the game? Not even close. Glad I skipped to this point to see if you knew what you were talking about.
;)) a bit salty, I see
@@Ontos99 average response from malenia defenders
MALENIA #1 ❤
❤
Dude after low level wreching margit the whole game must have been easy 😂
Margit has enabled me to develop a lot of skills for sure haha
@@Ontos99 for me because Margit has such a more advanced move set than the bosses until Morgott, everything was a breeze until i reached late game
@@MeltMasterFresh Was Radahn easy for you? He was my next roadblock after Margit
@@Ontos99 Radahn definitely was hard but I still walked away from it thinking "that wasn't as bad as Margit" lol. I think I tried too long to power through Margit before going to go explore. I love all Fromsoft games but am sort of a slow learner ha ha and Margit gives you ton to learn.
I enjoyed the Anime opening !
I expected the FIre Giant slander but was still surprised lol Challenge runs leave players with an extremely bad taste in their mouth. Even just looking at the footage makes me sigh because it's just that unpleasant for such a lumbering boss with gigantic hitboxes and HP. Akin to Rykard but worse and without the serpent hunter, essentially. So on that account alone, it's self-explanatory.
I also expected the defense of Malenia in the terms presented. Not because I think it's a prosaic and therefore unsurprising rebuttal, but because it's the logical one. As you stated, individuals who mechanically (in the sense of game logic) critique Malenia on such grounds speak as if the design wasn't 100% intentional, or otherwise adopt a tone that it's somehow devious in nature. In other words, people mask their opinions in statements of fact that do not logically follow, at all. Malenia stagger cancels? Yes. So it's unfair and breaks game logic? Uh no. People should, as the saying goes, man up and simply state "I don't like the fight on my terms". This is entirely acceptable and much more preferable. But this is likely something you will cover in the Malenia vid.
Like I said previously, I also think when you like something that's strongly disliked on average it helps to put things into perspective.
As for the DLC, I've remained mostly clean except for some community post images. It seems ER might be mechanically altered/updated once the DLC drops (a fundamentally enhanced game), so I wonder if you (and many others, I suppose) will go through a post-DLC base game tier list because of some interesting change. Well, time will certainly tell.
Yes. Fire Giant's tankiness and my low damage per se aren't my issues as that is true for most bosses. It is just this fight takes a very long time to play for me (maybe I'm just stupid) and I died so many times close to 10% of his HP bar.
Yes. I'll cover that in my Malenia video. I even held off on showing footage of my more successful attempts on Malenia (attempts where I understand her much better on many levels) to save it for my analysis video.
So far, I was able to stay pure and radiant. I don't know any images or community posts. If, as you say, something that fundamental occurs regarding a mechanical enhancement post DLC (I don't even know what you are talking about exactly but it piqued my interest haha) I would remake this tier list. Well I'm happy to learn more about what you are talking about in 11 days ;)))
@@Ontos99 Deaths at 10% in a challenge run sounds infuriating lol I'm definitely not built for that - I tried Malenia and it was exhausting and I gave up because of the patience threshold. It would make me hate the boss for sure. The "hardest" thing I've done was beating Malenia with a torch. Though it was fun once I actually relaxed and learned to enjoy the flow of it.
I am interested in hearing you speak more on Malenia at length, since I believe it may represent Fromsoft's idea of what a "hard" boss is for the future and why they the devs decided to commit to that type of design for a single boss, specifically.
I'm also not sure what's so special about DLC content mechanically, maybe I got the wrong idea from picking up certain words, but I think there's more to it than just more x and more y and z, something they've never done with their DLC before. Though a specific stat scaling for the DLC is also entirely new, but that's another subject.
Staying pure and radiant is the way. The small stuff is my fault anyway for browsing around defiantly. I learned Oroboro has a vid explaining the DLC scaling and it's supposed to be spoiler-free, but before watching it I noticed that someone pointed out he says the name of the Shadow Tree (I suppose it has its own name? That's fascinating) and I thought NOPE. If I hear/read that word, whatever it is, it's gonna keep me up at night until the 21st lol
Eleven days it is. EASY.
@@kimlee6643 These mechanics related stuff are not that important in my eyes. The real issue is to get spoiled on some nice enemy or boss design or worse, a plot related idea or some secret landscape. (like being spoiled on Siofra river elevator on a video before being 'wowed' by it yourself)
I was only semi aggressive (like 70%) in this Malenia footage which is why you don't see her posture broken often in the 2nd phase. With complete aggression, she is on her knees every 10 seconds but I don't want to spoil my victory run just yet ;))
About Fromsoftware adopting Malenia as a reference for their future bosses, I do not know. They might slowly cater more to her style but I'd be happy to see that unlike most people.
That Malenia video will happen after I do the combat analysis on DLC bosses. I'll already show many of my techniques and strategies on this Let's play as it will be a challenge run for a blind playthrough. 25 vigor usually means 2-3 hits at most on late game Elden Ring. And 3 hits is me being generous.
If I feel like the bosses are able to hit me 4 times and I still survive, I'd use a larval tear to reduce my vigor. So I plan to figure out majority of the boss weaknesses in this first playthrough with all of you guys.
I will only edit my failures if I die too many times.(which is possible and will happen actually) I can't wait to see how strong Messmer is let alone that 'boss who is as hard as Malenia' as Miyazaki alluded to.
@@kimlee6643 It is very infuriating which is why I no longer fight Fire giant SL1, I increase my vigor to 60 and use a fully upgraded weapon to enjoy his spectacle more and not worry about being perfect.
woulvde watched the video but intro was too long
Yikes
You probably could have skipped the intro using the bookmark faster than writing this comment ;))
Lol dark souls 3 bosses are better
In what way
DS3 bosses aren't even close to ER's Remembrance bosses, and that's without Shadow of the Erdtree yet, you can't find excuses to damage control.
Yeah after fighting Malenia many times I have the dodge roll perfected against waterfowl. Its definitely hard but its not THAT hard lol. I wouldn’t really call it a bad mechanic, its more of a “you have no room for error” mechanic.
Yea no one gonna waste hundredof hours of there life to learn one shit boss move
@@WhySoSeriousSenpai many people have already. Sorry that you’re bad
@@DonovanGG__ many people my ass,you mean the few sweaty losers like you who love doing those pointless “challenges”