In my BA we need to do this huge exam to graduate. In some key parts you are request to write an essay and cited authors in APA style BY HAND. I rather use my academic writing classes to actually develop something for my own than "Chatgptian" crap just to fool my teacher and never mature my cognitive skills. P.S. David, you are not crazy! I'm also writing my dissertation by hand in sheet of paper. Even thought is an academic paper; hand writing helps you connected to your work in a creative way.
I love the philosophy of writing. I have been listening to the first part of this episode, and I have noticed some interesting points already. On the idea of writing as for particular topics, it is interesting to look at topics as parts of a whole. David spoke of problems as being difficult to navigate, which makes me think of sailing metaphors. Ellie’s cosmic shift in writing makes me understand writing as a shifting, and that whenever we shift things, this motion is a type of writing that is cosmic. Also, with the phrase “human expression,” maybe what makes us human is our expressiveness. David’s “policing mentality” makes me wonder if all mentalities are of policing. I love how you are all concerned about students and their importance, that to study is important, and what we find important is always worthy of study. The introduction of a pause in thinking by practicing longhand, helps me think that when we pause at anything, if this is an introduction to a fresh way of thinking not yet practiced or mastered yet. As philosophers, when I hear Ellie state that something “seemed impossible,” this felt like a clue to how we look at truth like Shakespeare did in his “The Phoenix and the Turtle” where he said “Truth might seem, but cannot be…” (paraphrasing?). It is the seeming to be true that is impossible, that the possible is more related to the truth is something I would like to consider, whatever we mean by truth. About the “expressiveness” of humanity again, someone mentioned the “domains of expression” as if place is an integral part of expressivity. And, about the “trusting theme” of oneself, I see that as a Self-reliance of Ralph Waldo Emerson, though he did not talk of themes in his essay, but I can understand that if we take themes, that themes are trustworthy to some degree, or else we wouldn’t bother with them in the first place, and that with “trust,” it is more related to themes even than feelings, that we witness publicly trust more than feel it internally. But as for “making feelings” it is wonderful that it is our feelings which create all things we have, like in Vico’s New Science, where he said that the only things we know are the very things that we make. Therefore, we “know” our “feelings.” That is very interesting! Finally, I could go on, but I will pause and resume the episode, David mentioned “waiting for inspiration.” Maybe all waiting is inspiration, as with hope, which is a feeling for the thought of the inevitable, that we believe it will happen to some success. Thanks for all of this food for thought, Ellie and David!
I remember the year ChatGPT was available to the public. Half of my literature analysis class failed since our teacher realized they use AI because it was obvious. The most lazy classmates are the ones who will jump to ChatGPT without question. And, of course, since they are lazy, their writing is not good and it's easy to see the use of AI.
The digestion metaphor...was thinking that "fertilizer" is created during the thinking process, and then a flower would bloom. Now, my mind went to flower because of a metaphor one of my favorite writing teacher's had in college. Anyway, as someone that's always struggled with writing (any type), and always admired people that writes well, I really found this episode helpful. Been working on a research project for some, and it's shaping up, which may, or may not turn into a YT video one day. One thing I've noticed is that many creators on YT refer to their written notes as "scripts" not research notes, or papers. Sort puzzled by this categorization. Liked.
I lost trust with my "professors" in college when they started copying TH-cam videos verbatim and calling it there class. If you don't want your student to take the lazy way out you can't take the lazy way out when you structure your program. Lead not demand.
I think of writing as digestion! Now its difficult since I have wrist pain so I cannot type too much at a time. I need to build habit so I can get my work done.
Three days ago, INA Culture uploaded a French TV show centred around Derrida. Starting at 18:50, he says that he had hardly ever used the term, "déconstruction". "C'est pas moi...". The passage is a clear disavowal of wanting to even be associated with it. He says that it's been interesting to observe "the adventure of this word" in the world. So, I'm more confused than ever. The video is readily available on this platform.
2:57 this “trust” discourse is explicitly focalized by the teacher. How about the trust of the student? The fact is, you work for an industry of commoditized aspiration. The aspirations of some to expand their material income. You presume to expand knowledge, and yet, if your medium is via the academy, your message is “pay me.” I argue that students are making the rational determination that the best strategy to acquire the certificate you’re gatekeeping (as opposed to the knowledge-distribution you desire to be facilitating; damn all evidence to the contrary) is the most efficient one. So here’s a question: if it’s fair game for you to bracket the deleterious effects of your complicity with this neoliberalized “academy”, why isn’t it for the students?
I like the notion that writing is an act that helps you practice thinking for yourself. It's annoying for me that in the past many people would let religious clerks, politicians or celebrities think for them and now some people would resort to "A.I." to think for them ! It's like so many people would rather someone or something would think for them which can led to bad consequences politically, culturally and socially IMHO. Also I think that writing is an act of control over your language which is an act of controlling your thoughts so if someone else writes wouldn't that mean that they have power over the thinking process ?
I've come to think that AI writing is "just as well" because it's arrived at the post-literary moment in history. Not only do people do less and less sustained reading, they also perpetuate one another's errors by virtue of the fact that much of the text that they consume has been written privately, incorrectly. Reading once reinforced good language practice because the material adhered to an orthographical and grammatical standard. This is no longer the case, and the errors and simplifications are proliferating at an alarming pace, becoming standard practice. I'm thinking that artificially generated text will perhaps slow down this deterioration of the language itself. Yes, language will, in any case, evolve over time, but always ultimately be a reflection of the literary knowledge of its interlocutors...or be rewritten by a program which knows what the heck it's talking about, at least preserving a modicum of coherence.
In my BA we need to do this huge exam to graduate. In some key parts you are request to write an essay and cited authors in APA style BY HAND. I rather use my academic writing classes to actually develop something for my own than "Chatgptian" crap just to fool my teacher and never mature my cognitive skills.
P.S. David, you are not crazy! I'm also writing my dissertation by hand in sheet of paper. Even thought is an academic paper; hand writing helps you connected to your work in a creative way.
I love the philosophy of writing. I have been listening to the first part of this episode, and I have noticed some interesting points already. On the idea of writing as for particular topics, it is interesting to look at topics as parts of a whole. David spoke of problems as being difficult to navigate, which makes me think of sailing metaphors. Ellie’s cosmic shift in writing makes me understand writing as a shifting, and that whenever we shift things, this motion is a type of writing that is cosmic. Also, with the phrase “human expression,” maybe what makes us human is our expressiveness. David’s “policing mentality” makes me wonder if all mentalities are of policing. I love how you are all concerned about students and their importance, that to study is important, and what we find important is always worthy of study. The introduction of a pause in thinking by practicing longhand, helps me think that when we pause at anything, if this is an introduction to a fresh way of thinking not yet practiced or mastered yet. As philosophers, when I hear Ellie state that something “seemed impossible,” this felt like a clue to how we look at truth like Shakespeare did in his “The Phoenix and the Turtle” where he said “Truth might seem, but cannot be…” (paraphrasing?). It is the seeming to be true that is impossible, that the possible is more related to the truth is something I would like to consider, whatever we mean by truth. About the “expressiveness” of humanity again, someone mentioned the “domains of expression” as if place is an integral part of expressivity. And, about the “trusting theme” of oneself, I see that as a Self-reliance of Ralph Waldo Emerson, though he did not talk of themes in his essay, but I can understand that if we take themes, that themes are trustworthy to some degree, or else we wouldn’t bother with them in the first place, and that with “trust,” it is more related to themes even than feelings, that we witness publicly trust more than feel it internally. But as for “making feelings” it is wonderful that it is our feelings which create all things we have, like in Vico’s New Science, where he said that the only things we know are the very things that we make. Therefore, we “know” our “feelings.” That is very interesting! Finally, I could go on, but I will pause and resume the episode, David mentioned “waiting for inspiration.” Maybe all waiting is inspiration, as with hope, which is a feeling for the thought of the inevitable, that we believe it will happen to some success. Thanks for all of this food for thought, Ellie and David!
Hey Billy, May i have your contact: and email, Instagram, or WhatsApp ?
I remember the year ChatGPT was available to the public. Half of my literature analysis class failed since our teacher realized they use AI because it was obvious. The most lazy classmates are the ones who will jump to ChatGPT without question. And, of course, since they are lazy, their writing is not good and it's easy to see the use of AI.
The digestion metaphor...was thinking that "fertilizer" is created during the thinking process, and then a flower would bloom. Now, my mind went to flower because of a metaphor one of my favorite writing teacher's had in college. Anyway, as someone that's always struggled with writing (any type), and always admired people that writes well, I really found this episode helpful. Been working on a research project for some, and it's shaping up, which may, or may not turn into a YT video one day. One thing I've noticed is that many creators on YT refer to their written notes as "scripts" not research notes, or papers. Sort puzzled by this categorization.
Liked.
I lost trust with my "professors" in college when they started copying TH-cam videos verbatim and calling it there class. If you don't want your student to take the lazy way out you can't take the lazy way out when you structure your program. Lead not demand.
Great podcast.
I think of writing as digestion! Now its difficult since I have wrist pain so I cannot type too much at a time. I need to build habit so I can get my work done.
I like the solitary part but I dislike when I have hunt for quotes. :/ I use ai to find quotes that fits my argument.
Three days ago, INA Culture uploaded a French TV show centred around Derrida. Starting at 18:50, he says that he had hardly ever used the term, "déconstruction". "C'est pas moi...". The passage is a clear disavowal of wanting to even be associated with it. He says that it's been interesting to observe "the adventure of this word" in the world. So, I'm more confused than ever. The video is readily available on this platform.
2:57 this “trust” discourse is explicitly focalized by the teacher. How about the trust of the student? The fact is, you work for an industry of commoditized aspiration. The aspirations of some to expand their material income. You presume to expand knowledge, and yet, if your medium is via the academy, your message is “pay me.”
I argue that students are making the rational determination that the best strategy to acquire the certificate you’re gatekeeping (as opposed to the knowledge-distribution you desire to be facilitating; damn all evidence to the contrary) is the most efficient one.
So here’s a question: if it’s fair game for you to bracket the deleterious effects of your complicity with this neoliberalized “academy”, why isn’t it for the students?
I love you both. My wish is is that you can be more radicalized
What a great talk 😹
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I like the notion that writing is an act that helps you practice thinking for yourself. It's annoying for me that in the past many people would let religious clerks, politicians or celebrities think for them and now some people would resort to "A.I." to think for them ! It's like so many people would rather someone or something would think for them which can led to bad consequences politically, culturally and socially IMHO. Also I think that writing is an act of control over your language which is an act of controlling your thoughts so if someone else writes wouldn't that mean that they have power over the thinking process ?
Somebody, I can't remember who, once said, "Writing is a way of finding out what I think," (or words to that effect).
What about scientific writing?
I've come to think that AI writing is "just as well" because it's arrived at the post-literary moment in history. Not only do people do less and less sustained reading, they also perpetuate one another's errors by virtue of the fact that much of the text that they consume has been written privately, incorrectly. Reading once reinforced good language practice because the material adhered to an orthographical and grammatical standard. This is no longer the case, and the errors and simplifications are proliferating at an alarming pace, becoming standard practice. I'm thinking that artificially generated text will perhaps slow down this deterioration of the language itself. Yes, language will, in any case, evolve over time, but always ultimately be a reflection of the literary knowledge of its interlocutors...or be rewritten by a program which knows what the heck it's talking about, at least preserving a modicum of coherence.