What does the writing of Katy Perry, Hemingway, and The Bible have in common? Mark Forsyth has the answer. He studied history's greatest writers and noticed how they used the same rhetorical formulas. Here's what you need to know: 1. The formulas are timeless (and still work). 2. Where to begin? Try taking the last word of one sentence and repeating it as the first word in the next. It gives the illusion of logic. Like this one from Yoda: "Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hatred. Hatred leads to suffering." 3. An example from Malcolm X: "Once you change your philosophy, you change your thought pattern. Once you change your thought pattern, you change your attitude. Once you change your attitude, it changes your behavior pattern and then you go on into some action." 4. It's a mystery why, but people love to hear a string of words that begins with the same letter. "Two to Tango" is a heck of a lot more memorable than "Two to Waltz." 5. From his book, Elements of Eloquence: "Adjectives in English absolutely have to be in this order: opinion-size-age-shape-colour-origin-material-purpose Noun." 6. People will tell you to write only what's necessary, but endless repetition can be a way to emphasize something. Katy Perry's repetition of opposites is logically unnecessary, but it works: "'Cause you're hot then you're cold, You're yes then you're no, You're in then you're out, You're up then you're down, You're wrong when it's right, It's black and it's white, We fight, we break up, We kiss, we make up." 7. Wedding vows have the same kind of repetition: "For better or for worse, for richer or poorer, in sickness and in health..." 8. JFK leaned on a rhetorical device called a Chiasmus, where you take the first half of a sentence and say it backward. You see it in sentences like "Mankind must put an end to war-or war will put an end to mankind" and "Ask not what your country can do for you-ask what you can do for your country." 9. I like the Chiasmus because it's so easy to implement. Here's another example of a Chiasmus, like when Cormac McCarthy wrote: "You forget what you want to remember, and you remember what you want to forget." 10. Language is ruled by the mob. Doesn't matter what the committees think. If everybody uses a word in a certain way, then that's what it means. 11. Most of Shakespeare's famous lines are simply examples of famous formulas. 12. Shakespeare often "stole" content from other people, but he improved what he stole by using rhetorical formulas and figures of speech. Mark insists that he had Thomas North’s translation of Plutarch open while writing Julius Caesar. 13. Write two things that connect, then add a twist for the third thing. The magic comes from the surprise. An example is: "Lies, damned lies, and statistics." Another is: "Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness." 14. Sometimes, the things that stick will simply surprise you. One of the most famous lines in film history only has three words: "Bond. James Bond." 15. The James Bond-style line is called a Diacope. Other examples are "Burn, baby, burn" and "Zed’s dead, baby, Zed’s dead."
This guy wrote a wonderful book on this topic. 8:13 Ah! They mention it here. The Elements of Eloquence. Absolute classic. Secret sauce for any word chef. 👩🍳 👌
You want to become a better writer? Read The Elements of Eloquence, NOW! I rarely comment but I simply need to endorse this book. I've read dozens of books on writing and this might be my new number one. It's short, succinct, it has a great structure where the end of each short chapter leads into the next (I can't say enough good things about the structure), it's just excellently written - extremely dense with lots of humor and it's full of examples so you can easily follow along and start practicing all the various techniques. I mean it will actually show you how to write like Shakespeare! I could go on but I recommend this book to anyone interested in writing, this book was a real gem, I took a ton of notes and I am already a better writer. Thanks Mark if you ever read this /a published writer from Sweden
This is a masterclass in being memorable in our writing and speaking. Sometimes it's not the idea rather how we phrase it. To do, or not, to do. In my book there's a character that emulates Bond, James Bond and I am wondering if I should ''borrow'' that formula to make that passage of the book more memorable...
Thoroughly enjoyed this discussion, I was absolutely sat between you two. Its interesting how passionate Mark sounds with a somewhat serious delivery😅 he must love hip hop😊
That was absolutely amazing. Picture books use rhetorical devices too. I started collecting great sentences from picture books years ago but I stopped. I should keep doing it. One day I may write a book about it. Of course I'm going to order Marc's book. I seem to write and edit is a similar way to Marc. The story either works straight away or I start over. If it fizzles out, I abandon it. I'm so happy youtube suggested this video and this channel. Why on earth I haven't seen it sooner, youtube?
Interesting tidbit about Shakespeare being a thief. During Shakespeare’s era, the Classical Education of the Greeks and Romans had a ‘renaissance’. Writing was based around the ancient practice of the trivium (grammar, logic and rhetoric). It had stages, the first being: A exemplary ‘model’ was chosen, the student would analyse (1st grammatically, parsing, etc. 2nd logically for arguments/topics of invention, and 3rdly on its rhetorical character, including the identification of tropes and figures, as well as other rhetorical dimensions such as the arrangement of the entire discourse, or matters of rhythm and style) The second stage involved the practice of Imitation. These imitative exercises consisted either of copying some type of form within the original, but supplying new content; or, of copying the content of the original, but supplying a new form. There are many, many different techniques employed. The most common is the varying of sentences, but also included a practice called Metaphrasis - the ‘translating’ from one genre to another - a speech to a poem, etc. Students kept commonplace books to record their favourites. Models of exemplary writing were often taken from famous Greek and Roman authors, such as Plutarch. I genuinely believe, thanks to Desiderius Erasmus, Shakespeare would of had this classical training in writing. He would have most likely been reading Plutarch as a model of excellence, and he was practising his progymnasmata exercises, and collecting them in his commonplace book. The final Form taken within this education is Genesis - the creation of your own work, which would have included examples of exercises a student worked on during his education.
I've just fallen in love... my sapiophilia is riding me hard with this one... I even went and got the e-book of Elements of Eloquence while listening to this, and the first few paragraphs are just... It's so well written I want to cry...
I leave this line form Jay-z and Kanye West's " no church in the wild" : Is Pious pious ’cause God loves pious? Socrates asks, “whose bias do y’all seek?”
What does the writing of Katy Perry, Hemingway, and The Bible have in common?
Mark Forsyth has the answer. He studied history's greatest writers and noticed how they used the same rhetorical formulas.
Here's what you need to know:
1. The formulas are timeless (and still work).
2. Where to begin? Try taking the last word of one sentence and repeating it as the first word in the next. It gives the illusion of logic. Like this one from Yoda: "Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hatred. Hatred leads to suffering."
3. An example from Malcolm X: "Once you change your philosophy, you change your thought pattern. Once you change your thought pattern, you change your attitude. Once you change your attitude, it changes your behavior pattern and then you go on into some action."
4. It's a mystery why, but people love to hear a string of words that begins with the same letter. "Two to Tango" is a heck of a lot more memorable than "Two to Waltz."
5. From his book, Elements of Eloquence: "Adjectives in English absolutely have to be in this order: opinion-size-age-shape-colour-origin-material-purpose Noun."
6. People will tell you to write only what's necessary, but endless repetition can be a way to emphasize something. Katy Perry's repetition of opposites is logically unnecessary, but it works: "'Cause you're hot then you're cold, You're yes then you're no, You're in then you're out, You're up then you're down, You're wrong when it's right, It's black and it's white, We fight, we break up, We kiss, we make up."
7. Wedding vows have the same kind of repetition: "For better or for worse, for richer or poorer, in sickness and in health..."
8. JFK leaned on a rhetorical device called a Chiasmus, where you take the first half of a sentence and say it backward. You see it in sentences like "Mankind must put an end to war-or war will put an end to mankind" and "Ask not what your country can do for you-ask what you can do for your country."
9. I like the Chiasmus because it's so easy to implement. Here's another example of a Chiasmus, like when Cormac McCarthy wrote: "You forget what you want to remember, and you remember what you want to forget."
10. Language is ruled by the mob. Doesn't matter what the committees think. If everybody uses a word in a certain way, then that's what it means.
11. Most of Shakespeare's famous lines are simply examples of famous formulas.
12. Shakespeare often "stole" content from other people, but he improved what he stole by using rhetorical formulas and figures of speech. Mark insists that he had Thomas North’s translation of Plutarch open while writing Julius Caesar.
13. Write two things that connect, then add a twist for the third thing. The magic comes from the surprise. An example is: "Lies, damned lies, and statistics." Another is: "Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness."
14. Sometimes, the things that stick will simply surprise you. One of the most famous lines in film history only has three words: "Bond. James Bond."
15. The James Bond-style line is called a Diacope. Other examples are "Burn, baby, burn" and "Zed’s dead, baby, Zed’s dead."
I think you meant Katy Perry, Dickens, and the Bible…
And just like that, two people I’d never heard of an hour ago are now two of my favorite humans on earth.
Goddamn this is wonderful content.
This episode is like being introduced to a whole new universe of writing tools
Dig it! Strongly recommend Mark's book: The Elements of Eloquence
@@DavidPerellChannel Already ordered it! :D
Heard his accent, checked his bio. Of course he went to Oxford. Outstanding interview. Kudos.
This man's book is a grimoire. It contains forbidden literary knowledge, and whichever writer reads it will have its power.
This is an incredible. I wish there are more videos like this to actually teach us how to write.
The fact that he quoted Coolio is evidence that he is in fact a master of his craft. Kudos to you, sir.
My Coolio, he meant Snoop Dog. But he gets a pass for his riveting accent. ⚡️⚡️
Yes. Snoop. “Gin and Juice.” But point taken
I would love for Shakespeare to break into my house and tidy up. This video was wonderful. The conversation itself was a poem.
This guy wrote a wonderful book on this topic. 8:13 Ah! They mention it here. The Elements of Eloquence. Absolute classic. Secret sauce for any word chef. 👩🍳 👌
"Forgive us our trespasses, as we forgive those who tresspass against us" I always thought that was a bar😂😂🔥🔥🔥
You want to become a better writer? Read The Elements of Eloquence, NOW! I rarely comment but I simply need to endorse this book. I've read dozens of books on writing and this might be my new number one. It's short, succinct, it has a great structure where the end of each short chapter leads into the next (I can't say enough good things about the structure), it's just excellently written - extremely dense with lots of humor and it's full of examples so you can easily follow along and start practicing all the various techniques. I mean it will actually show you how to write like Shakespeare! I could go on but I recommend this book to anyone interested in writing, this book was a real gem, I took a ton of notes and I am already a better writer. Thanks Mark if you ever read this /a published writer from Sweden
“If it flows out of you, it flows into the reader”
Fascinating. I have apparently been doing a lot of this in my writing and had no idea. Thanks for hosting a fascinating discussion
This was a beautiful conversation, thank you for the work you do sir. You're giving so much hope in such an unintentional way. 🙏🏾❤️
the video is getting better and better. love it
Thanks!
This was wholly enjoyable
I wish this was correctly subtitled... these words are new to me, and they are just epic. Thanks man 💖💖
Thanks for listening
Thank you for this interview!
This is a masterclass in being memorable in our writing and speaking. Sometimes it's not the idea rather how we phrase it.
To do, or not, to do. In my book there's a character that emulates Bond, James Bond and I am wondering if I should ''borrow'' that formula to make that passage of the book more memorable...
Thoroughly enjoyed this discussion, I was absolutely sat between you two. Its interesting how passionate Mark sounds with a somewhat serious delivery😅 he must love hip hop😊
That was absolutely amazing. Picture books use rhetorical devices too. I started collecting great sentences from picture books years ago but I stopped. I should keep doing it. One day I may write a book about it.
Of course I'm going to order Marc's book. I seem to write and edit is a similar way to Marc. The story either works straight away or I start over. If it fizzles out, I abandon it.
I'm so happy youtube suggested this video and this channel. Why on earth I haven't seen it sooner, youtube?
Interesting tidbit about Shakespeare being a thief. During Shakespeare’s era, the Classical Education of the Greeks and Romans had a ‘renaissance’. Writing was based around the ancient practice of the trivium (grammar, logic and rhetoric). It had stages, the first being: A exemplary ‘model’ was chosen, the student would analyse (1st grammatically, parsing, etc. 2nd logically for arguments/topics of invention, and 3rdly on its rhetorical character, including the identification of tropes and figures, as well as other rhetorical dimensions such as the arrangement of the entire discourse, or matters of rhythm and style) The second stage involved the practice of Imitation. These imitative exercises consisted either of copying some type of form within the original, but supplying new content; or, of copying the content of the original, but supplying a new form. There are many, many different techniques employed. The most common is the varying of sentences, but also included a practice called Metaphrasis - the ‘translating’ from one genre to another - a speech to a poem, etc. Students kept commonplace books to record their favourites. Models of exemplary writing were often taken from famous Greek and Roman authors, such as Plutarch. I genuinely believe, thanks to Desiderius Erasmus, Shakespeare would of had this classical training in writing. He would have most likely been reading Plutarch as a model of excellence, and he was practising his progymnasmata exercises, and collecting them in his commonplace book. The final Form taken within this education is Genesis - the creation of your own work, which would have included examples of exercises a student worked on during his education.
Starting strong, so good so far
Speechless.
Brilliant my friends, just brilliant...
Wow, thank you both. Very good.
I've just fallen in love... my sapiophilia is riding me hard with this one... I even went and got the e-book of Elements of Eloquence while listening to this, and the first few paragraphs are just... It's so well written I want to cry...
Feeling the pressure to come up with a rhetorically eloquent comment - but I'll just say, this was incredibly helpful and thank you so much. :)
Hahaha… glad you liked it
Thank you man, thank you.
this video blew my mind, what a great find, it came at a perfect time, all stuff about rhyme,
Nice.... you should pick up Mark's book!
"The Elements of Eloquence"
@@DavidPerellChannel Yes. I just bought it. I will read it this August.
Just in time for my long car ride. You are unstoppable 👍.
Hope you liked it
Great intro - watching this now!
Enjoy it
Genius content!!!
Great this is me loves. Your videos are well good and me watches it all the live long hour.
It will help me ❤thanks dude
Good stuff
18:21 so true!
Thank you so much
“Eloquence” is Mark’s book. It’s not mentioned or linked here.
30:13 18th century highyway thief slang ❤❤😂🎉
So random and quirky and strange
How you reversed the JFK quote on your intro after getting it right initially with Forsyth? (Lol for an editor to miss)
11:30
14:41
20:00
25:50
28:29
37:58
41:00
This is totally unrelated but does anyone know where the heck they place the microphones?
Native russian speaker here. I greatly enjoyed the video, but i have no idea what that russian word is haha
Did you intentionally misspeak the JFK line in your intro? 😂
Yeah I was like, uhhhhhh? lol
Oops… total brain fart
Right?!? Credibility off.
@@DavidPerellChannel 😂
WOW 🎉🎉🎉
Did anyone else go and search the Wizard of Oz scene for "Fly my pretties fly"...convince Mark was wrong? Could not find it. So where is that from?
Same as Star Wars where we all remember "Luke, I am your father", but that's not the correct line from the movie I believe.
11:50. 7 books on the left, 9 on the right is giving me OCD.
This souldn't be for free (but i love It Is ❤)
I have his book. I thought he’s an old man. Turns out he’s younger than me. Now I need to figure what I have done with my life in all these years.
"...younger than _I_." 😂 Sorry, the homeschool dad in me just HAD to...!
It sounds like you flipped the speech here in 01:21 😅😅
Oops! Honest mistake
🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥
David reversed the JFK quote. 😂
I leave this line form Jay-z and Kanye West's " no church in the wild" :
Is Pious pious ’cause God loves pious?
Socrates asks, “whose bias do y’all seek?”
I like the room. Your home?
Mmm, yeah. Modern copyright laws assure that we will never see another Shakespeare.
At 1:20, that's not what JFK said
1:20 Did he just said the iconic jfk speech other way round.BIG L from Pakistan
Next time he's on, can you ask him what the technical term is for this? th-cam.com/video/G7RgN9ijwE4/w-d-xo.html
I wonder if rapper like Harry Mack use these writing techniques
Here's one from Jay-z :
Is Pious pious ’cause God loves pious?
Socrates asks, “whose bias do y’all seek?”
You got the JFK quote backwards.
Where is the cheat sheet? All I see is an hour-long video.
It’s the book that he wrote.
@@tedtalksrock Thank you. I wasn't aware of that.
Mandela Effect
You totally misquoted Kennedy in the first 30 seconds of the video. I can't even watch the rest after that.