@@SaeronorUSSR did not need to invade the Japanese Home Islands to win. They'd just need to overrun Manchuria and North Korea - which is essentially what they historically did in August 1945. And if the Japanese did not surrender they would have kept going - invading the rest of the Japanese-held China as well as South Korea. And even if the Japanese somehow defeated the US Leyte invasion, their sea lanes would still be vulnerable to submarine and air attacks, B-29s would have still hit the Japanese cities and industry (including eventually the nuclear-armed ones)...
@@VersusARCH So, no Soviet invasion of Home Islands after all. Clickbait title is clickbait. Also, overrunning Manchuria would be taking away something that already did nothing for Japan, considering how their merchant fleet transitioned into submarine fleet. Also also, given that even 1945 Red Army failed to develop logistics enough for the task at hand (ie. pushing *deep* into Manchuria), Northern China seems like a case of Germans in Caucasus, partially defeating themselves.
This was AMAZING. The review of The Battle of Leyte Gulf was quite interesting and entertaining. The "What If" scenario around what would've happened if Operation Sho Go was somewhat successful was also very intriguing. But the fact that they even stepped into discussions around the ramifications for MacAruthur's later political career were stellar.
Jon is one of the top historians and history-tellers of our generation. I have not watched yet, but unless he says that the USSR could not invade anything, I will be disappointed. They did try invading The Kurile Islands and... it did not go well... They won, but their own conclusions was; "we had no idea what we are doing, let us not try this again".
Absolutely brilliant gentlemen. Love the channel. Have you ever thought about doing a history undone episode on Peleliu? I think it would be interesting to see how things would have turned out, had the Marines been repulsed or had the operation never been conducted.
Great channel ive now watched a bunch of videos. I had your channel in my recommended for a while but i avoided it because i thought the titles were dumb. Seeing jon parshall and drachinifel in the thumbnails eventually convinced me to give it a try. Its good that the alternate history is kept to the end of the video and limited. I wish it was the same with the titles because especially for this video it sounds very dumb.
I believe the scouting pilot’s exact words were- “I just spotted the biggest meatball battleship I’ve ever seen.” ‘Meatball’ being the term the Americans used for the giant red ball which symbolized the sun on the Japanese imperial flag, and which they painted (helpfully) on the foredeck of all their largest ships.
There is much to criticize about MacArthur, as a human being, an ally, and even his military planning, particularly in 1942. He did seem to be learning a bit in 1943 and occasionally listened to others. But I've heard from more than one historian (with a background of serving in the US Army) that his Philippine Campaign was actually handled pretty well given the realities he faced. His biggest issue at this time being his continued employment of his intelligence officer who had failed him many times previously.
The Soviets couldn’t have taken Hokkaido. They didn’t have the ships to carry their armour, the landing craft to get them ashore or the fuel resupply capability to support them once they got there. Even if the US had provided the amphibious ships, doctrine and training (unlikely!), the Soviets were exhausted after Operation August Storm and probably couldn’t have been ready until 1946.
What if Admiral Mikawa had decided to go for the US transports supporting the Marine invasion at the outset of the Battle for Guadalcanal? Because that was not only more possible but it almost happened and would've been a disastrous setback for all the Allies in the Pacific and an out and out peril for the Guadalcanal Marines at an early-war time when our logistics were marginally supportive just of the landings. That was in contrast to the situation at Leyte where we had better logistics and planning for unloading transports which had largely unloaded at the time when Taffy 3 was left as the bulk their protection. As for Zuikaku and Shoukaku they lacked their competent veteran aircrews which is why they were being sacrificed as distraction bait. We were also comfortably equipped with better air and Naval power.
I'm not a fan of MacArthur but I agree he was the right choice for administering Japan after the wars end. His Inchon invasion was a masterstroke but his march to the Yalu was a catastrophe
I've always wondered what would have happened if Nimitz instead of taking Peleau took Iwo Jima earlier would it have been easier and perhaps we would taken the other island nearby?
Iwo gets them them almost nothing but Okinawa allows for medium range bombers to start attacking Japana. The biggest issues with going to Okinawa before the Philippines is that it is farther away from US logistics bases but still within range of Japanese bases on mainland Japan, Formosa, and the Philippines. It also doesn't have the port availability that the navy will need to build and sustain the invasion of Japan. When the invasion of Japan was planned, most of the forces were going to sail from the Philippines, not from Okinawa.
@@TheInquisitiveFool-cf6uj Peleau was supposed to be support for the Philippines, except Halsey convinced everyone to skip the lower portion of the Island chain and Peleau became a meat grinder for naught. By taking Iwo earlier you bypass 2 months of build up of fortifications and reinforcements. Iwo was used for a fighter base and emergency landing for B29s.
Before Battle of Leyte gulf 1944, Japanese imperial Navy was still strong enough to defeat any Soviet Naval attempt that try to in base Japan. I don’t think it is possible .
*If the Allies HAD lost at Leyte Gulf, the Soviet Union could HAVE invaded Is it really so hard to employ people who speak good English to write these titles?
USSR would need magic, too. When you look at the assets and technology needed in the invasions that they’d carried out, it is very unlikely that the USSR could have mounted a successful large-scale invasion of Japan. They didn’t have the ships, the tools or the skills.
@@peterwebb8732 Not even with the ships they had in and around Europe and borrowed from the RN. I doubt if the US was delayed at Leyte King would have allowed US assets to be given/lent/used under US commanders and sailors to ferry Soviet troops anywhere.
MacArthur was a good administrator but his arrogance about his battle plans were dangerous. He wasn’t inclined toward taking advice from “outsiders”. Had the Soviets been able to invade Hokkaido, it would have been a bloodbath. The result might have been that Hokkaido would become a Soviet state. In addition Korea would be entirely under Kim Il Sung and later his son and grandson. I have no doubt that things would have been profoundly different, but I do not know who the influencers would have been. Large numbers of Japanese would have been displaced, which is a very significant problem for the Japanese on the other islands.
Maybe skipping Leyte for Luzon immediately, but I'd need to see a map to see how feasible it was. I don't recall Spruance's thoughts on Leyte but he wanted to use Luzon to stage for Okinawa. Letting big Mac take Luzon would have kept him pacified enough politically too. Thankfully he didn't lead an invasion of the Japanese home islands.
If the US lost that battle I would expect the saucer people to invade. This is one of the most stupid what ifs one could make up. Looks to me someone’s kind of desperate for You Tube views and attention. Go write a new book, kid, if you want more.
You can keep deleting my posts - but it's not going to change the fact that you've got a click bait title. It's to bad. Other than that type of stupidity you've done a fairly good job with these things. Eh. So it goes. [Don't recommend Channel]. .
Anything with Jon Parshall is an instant thumbs up from me!
You guys are great and I'm happy, Jon is there I'm twice as happy. Where Jon goes I go. Keep up the fantastic work men.
Chris Parry and Jon Parshall are two greats to have on this presentation. Thank you!
two things that stay consistent in a weary world
Parschall’s shirts and wallpaper
So much extra information. This was great. Your historians are top notch! 👍🏿
Jon's shirt sold Roosevelt on going after the Philippines!
Great video as ever chaps, cheers.
I just want to hear how they make it plausible that the allies COULD have lost at Leyte Gulf.
Same, but about Soviet naval capacity in Far East suddenly not being Kamchatka-tier.
@@SaeronorUSSR did not need to invade the Japanese Home Islands to win. They'd just need to overrun Manchuria and North Korea - which is essentially what they historically did in August 1945. And if the Japanese did not surrender they would have kept going - invading the rest of the Japanese-held China as well as South Korea.
And even if the Japanese somehow defeated the US Leyte invasion, their sea lanes would still be vulnerable to submarine and air attacks, B-29s would have still hit the Japanese cities and industry (including eventually the nuclear-armed ones)...
@@VersusARCH So, no Soviet invasion of Home Islands after all. Clickbait title is clickbait.
Also, overrunning Manchuria would be taking away something that already did nothing for Japan, considering how their merchant fleet transitioned into submarine fleet.
Also also, given that even 1945 Red Army failed to develop logistics enough for the task at hand (ie. pushing *deep* into Manchuria), Northern China seems like a case of Germans in Caucasus, partially defeating themselves.
This was AMAZING. The review of The Battle of Leyte Gulf was quite interesting and entertaining. The "What If" scenario around what would've happened if Operation Sho Go was somewhat successful was also very intriguing. But the fact that they even stepped into discussions around the ramifications for MacAruthur's later political career were stellar.
Jon is one of the top historians and history-tellers of our generation. I have not watched yet, but unless he says that the USSR could not invade anything, I will be disappointed. They did try invading The Kurile Islands and... it did not go well... They won, but their own conclusions was; "we had no idea what we are doing, let us not try this again".
Absolutely brilliant gentlemen. Love the channel. Have you ever thought about doing a history undone episode on Peleliu? I think it would be interesting to see how things would have turned out, had the Marines been repulsed or had the operation never been conducted.
Nov. 13, 1942. USS Cushing DD-376, my family lost Carr, Creighton E.
Seaman 2nd Class.
the episodes with chris and John are the best
A brilliant series; well done, well done indeed.
Great channel ive now watched a bunch of videos. I had your channel in my recommended for a while but i avoided it because i thought the titles were dumb. Seeing jon parshall and drachinifel in the thumbnails eventually convinced me to give it a try. Its good that the alternate history is kept to the end of the video and limited. I wish it was the same with the titles because especially for this video it sounds very dumb.
Great discussion- particularly the Formosa problem.👍
Thank You.
Admiral King was just playing Devil’s advocate for MacArthur, to help him redeem himself for losing the Philippines.
Is it just on my end that the audio cuts out every 3 seconds?
Edit: Was on my end, reloading the video fixed it.
What ifs should also address the impact on US presence in China if they went to Formosa.
I believe the scouting pilot’s exact words were- “I just spotted the biggest meatball battleship I’ve ever seen.” ‘Meatball’ being the term the Americans used for the giant red ball which symbolized the sun on the Japanese imperial flag, and which they painted (helpfully) on the foredeck of all their largest ships.
I can see the confusion, only the Italians had meatball battleships
I thought he also said something about seeing a pagoda mast as well.
@@PeteOtton I think that's right.
Good catch! Tough to remember all that at 0400 my time, lol! Thank you, though!
@@jonparshalljust make sure to memorize drachinifels videos he mentions the quote 😁
My one and only complaint/recommendation for this particular episode would be a more "zoomed in map" of the Battle areas. Zoom in on the Philippines
.
Brilliant show
Any source on the Japanese losing nearly 40% of their planes to getting lost?
TY
There is much to criticize about MacArthur, as a human being, an ally, and even his military planning, particularly in 1942. He did seem to be learning a bit in 1943 and occasionally listened to others. But I've heard from more than one historian (with a background of serving in the US Army) that his Philippine Campaign was actually handled pretty well given the realities he faced. His biggest issue at this time being his continued employment of his intelligence officer who had failed him many times previously.
Still of the view that Cape Engano should have been Enterprise vs Zuikaku.
The Soviets couldn’t have taken Hokkaido. They didn’t have the ships to carry their armour, the landing craft to get them ashore or the fuel resupply capability to support them once they got there. Even if the US had provided the amphibious ships, doctrine and training (unlikely!), the Soviets were exhausted after Operation August Storm and probably couldn’t have been ready until 1946.
they where happy with manturicha
Looks interesting
What if Admiral Mikawa had decided to go for the US transports supporting the Marine invasion at the outset of the Battle for Guadalcanal? Because that was not only more possible but it almost happened and would've been a disastrous setback for all the Allies in the Pacific and an out and out peril for the Guadalcanal Marines at an early-war time when our logistics were marginally supportive just of the landings.
That was in contrast to the situation at Leyte where we had better logistics and planning for unloading transports which had largely unloaded at the time when Taffy 3 was left as the bulk their protection. As for Zuikaku and Shoukaku they lacked their competent veteran aircrews which is why they were being sacrificed as distraction bait. We were also comfortably equipped with better air and Naval power.
The channel has an entire video of the same format about guadalcanal
I'm not a fan of MacArthur but I agree he was the right choice for administering Japan after the wars end. His Inchon invasion was a masterstroke but his march to the Yalu was a catastrophe
HEY YOU LEFT OUT ALL THE DETAILS ON LTCMDR ERNST EVANS ON THE JOHNSTON AND HIS HEROIC FIRST CHARGE AT THE JAPANESE TO SET THE TONE FOR THE BATTLE!!
Kurita thought he was facing fleet carriers because Japanese ships had no ship silouette charts to sort between fleet and escort CVs
58:08 but as MacArthur was still in uniform, he legally couldn't run for President yet.
Still fighting the Philippines at the edge of 45 I did not know that. Wow the Japanese were fanatics
Where is Drachinifel?
A musician as well as a history buff, I will be hunting out the Beatles channel, on the assumption that it is done this well -- which done well it is.
Next do the Battle of Carrhae (53bc) or the Mongol Invasions penetrated in Western Europe?.
The USSR invading Japan alone without a fleet is as likely as the USSR invading Britain 🤣
Spruance? Isn't he a cruiser guy?
Jon Parshall is going to the dark side with alternate history!
LOL, right?
Jon!!!
If they would have took Okinawa and Iwo instead of the Philippines what happens?
I've always wondered what would have happened if Nimitz instead of taking Peleau took Iwo Jima earlier would it have been easier and perhaps we would taken the other island nearby?
Iwo gets them them almost nothing but Okinawa allows for medium range bombers to start attacking Japana. The biggest issues with going to Okinawa before the Philippines is that it is farther away from US logistics bases but still within range of Japanese bases on mainland Japan, Formosa, and the Philippines. It also doesn't have the port availability that the navy will need to build and sustain the invasion of Japan. When the invasion of Japan was planned, most of the forces were going to sail from the Philippines, not from Okinawa.
@@TheInquisitiveFool-cf6uj Peleau was supposed to be support for the Philippines, except Halsey convinced everyone to skip the lower portion of the Island chain and Peleau became a meat grinder for naught. By taking Iwo earlier you bypass 2 months of build up of fortifications and reinforcements. Iwo was used for a fighter base and emergency landing for B29s.
Before Battle of Leyte gulf 1944, Japanese imperial Navy was still strong enough to defeat any Soviet Naval attempt that try to in base Japan. I don’t think it is possible .
Thanks..but Dug didn't say I will return...get it right..."I shall return.
I just think that Philphines were strategic mistake. Why you had to take them? No other reason than vanity of one general?
*If the Allies HAD lost at Leyte Gulf, the Soviet Union could HAVE invaded
Is it really so hard to employ people who speak good English to write these titles?
If the Allies lost Leyte Gulf the USSR invading would be the least of anyone's concern. What with the Japanese Empire having discovered magic.
USSR would need magic, too.
When you look at the assets and technology needed in the invasions that they’d carried out, it is very unlikely that the USSR could have mounted a successful large-scale invasion of Japan. They didn’t have the ships, the tools or the skills.
Certainly not what they did have was in the Pacific too.
But I did not watch even to the end of the introduction. :-)
Considering in Japanese mythology and ghost stories there have been cases of people using dark magic. There is a strong possibility of it being used.
@@peterwebb8732 Not even with the ships they had in and around Europe and borrowed from the RN. I doubt if the US was delayed at Leyte King would have allowed US assets to be given/lent/used under US commanders and sailors to ferry Soviet troops anywhere.
Most certainly. The USSR was not landing on the four large home islands.
MacArthur was a good administrator but his arrogance about his battle plans were dangerous. He wasn’t inclined toward taking advice from “outsiders”. Had the Soviets been able to invade Hokkaido, it would have been a bloodbath. The result might have been that Hokkaido would become a Soviet state. In addition Korea would be entirely under Kim Il Sung and later his son and grandson. I have no doubt that things would have been profoundly different, but I do not know who the influencers would have been. Large numbers of Japanese would have been displaced, which is a very significant problem for the Japanese on the other islands.
Could the US actually invade Okinawa in October/ November 1944without invading the Philippines at all?
What if the had skiped the phillipines and set MacArthur straight at oakanowa?
Maybe skipping Leyte for Luzon immediately, but I'd need to see a map to see how feasible it was. I don't recall Spruance's thoughts on Leyte but he wanted to use Luzon to stage for Okinawa. Letting big Mac take Luzon would have kept him pacified enough politically too. Thankfully he didn't lead an invasion of the Japanese home islands.
I see a Hawaiian shirt so this must be unofficial lol
If
If the US lost that battle I would expect the saucer people to invade. This is one of the most stupid what ifs one could make up. Looks to me someone’s kind of desperate for You Tube views and attention. Go write a new book, kid, if you want more.
You can keep deleting my posts - but it's not going to change the fact that you've got a click bait title.
It's to bad. Other than that type of stupidity you've done a fairly good job with these things.
Eh. So it goes.
[Don't recommend Channel].
.