You were once asked, to name the other navies Kamchatkas. What about the other navies USS Johnstons? Also, the Giulio Cesare sunk in Soviet service as Noworossijsk in 1955 because of an explosion at the front part of the ship. There are some conspiracies, as to what this explosion was, because the details are a little here and there. What do you think caused this explosion?
if you were the pm of australia how would you change the australian navy's procurement/production fom 1918 to 1945 if you had full hind sight . ps love your vids
@@Jpecky131 I don't think you got what I was trying to point out but thankyou... I was talking about them saying "overs" like shells passing overhead. Or at least I think so
@@AtomicBabel lest we forget..my dad always had a special regard for submariners..he was a gunners mate/boatswains mate 1943 to 1963..he has rejoined his shipmates ...Eternal Father Strong To Save..
pdogone1 at the naval undersea museum near port townsend is a memorial wall engraved with the names of US submarines lost during the Second World War. Very sobering. And nothing short of a tragedy that the brave men on those ships who gave their lives fighting are shrouded in historical obscurity.
@@ozone-xv7hk sadly true...think we lost 50 subs during WW2...had to also endure two years of one of the worst torpedoes ever developed.. a scandal in itself (budget constraints before the war)
Battle of Jutland summed up- The Grand Fleet almost unanimously decides to not tell Jellicoe a damned thing. Jellicoe does his best in spite of incompetence. Scheer rolls natural 20s all night long.
I can't even begin to comprehend how angry Jellicoe must have been once he eventually found out all the signals and reports that never got sent to him. It's mind blowing just how many people dropped so many balls at so many different times during the engagement.
Jellicoe couldn't be mad, he's the guy that hand-picked his Captains and Admirals (one of whom was described as "having a Pumpkin for a head"). He WANTED them to do what he told them and nothing else (the Captain of the Defense wasn't his call). Jutland is when it was found out just what "nothing else" lead to. Remember, Drac has ties to part of a feud that's been going a century, there's a LOT of dirt on both sides.
@@drewdederer8965 ...Classic British elitism at its best. Only the swells are competent to lead the forces, and no son of a farmer will ever become Lord High Admiral - we've got standards to maintain, they said. Meanwhile we Canadians, using independently-minded farm-boy soldiers & modern thinking by our general staff, managed to take Vimy Ridge without serious losses. The British were humiliated that ex-colonists could show them up...
@@jrb_sland5066 in fairness. They were also Canadians. The guys the Germans thought of as shock troops and whose presence was so terrifying that it reached a point Germans could be fooled into thinking which portion of a line was going to be attacked based on where the Canadians were being moved to...
@@CSSVirginia I think that, with boy sailors and recalled reservists, the Royal Navy must have had quite a few who went through that double experience. Granddad's last action of note was clearing mines on the Normandy approaches on the night of 5/6 June 1944.
Dialogue upon the commissioning of HMS Warspite Cpt. Phillpotts: "What's her belt armor again?" RN Design engineer: "13 in." Cpt. Phillpotts: "Are you sure it is adequate?" RN Design engineer: "Yes, because it's doubled by plot armor, and that's 20 ft thick all around." Cpt. Phillpotts: "Jolly good."
@@jlvfr Warspite: Of course we did! Britannia Rule The Waves and all that! And we were most definitely not doing the "Bismarck" move before it had become all the rage. No no no!
The more I learn about Jutland, the more I appreciate Jellicoe's skill as a commander. He was operating at a time with limited communication while receiving piecemeal and often faulty information, yet he was still able to achieve his strategic objectives. A lot of the blame fell on his head for what were effectively design issues - in terms of handling his fleet, he performed extremely well and acted reasonably, based on the information given to him.
In fairness, he did basically cover-up his role in getting people killed by opening the ship doors, and he basically invented the plunging-fire myth to hide the truth, which also got Hood killed in WW2.
@@naverilllang The idea was the British ships were sunk by German shells coming in at a high angle, easily penetrating the British ships and destroying them. The admirals suggested more armor be added to prevent this. The actual investigation didn't bear this out: if the ships had followed pre-war procedure, the loss of a turret wouldn't cause the loss of a ship. The engineer responsible for the investigation didn't press the issue though, so most of the British had no idea that the German shells had nothing to do with the actual loss of the ships.
There were a LOT of things that came out of the investigation of the explosions. First was that British Cordite wasn't very stable (it could "flash" a LONG distance, German Powder tended to just burn). Too, the British ships had a "working chamber" halfway between the magazine and the guns, thus giving another flash source helping fire to reach the magazines. (how much removed equipment helped this wasn't testable, NONE of the British Battleships took a barabette or turret penetrating hit). The BBs DID have fires within their secondaries. Malaya had an ammunition fire flash along the casemates that burned out an entire side of 6 inchers, but didn't touch off the magazine. Defense appeared to have something similar in her 7.5 inchers just before she blew up. Thirdly (and Dracs mentioned this) Indefatigable and Invincible didn't have enough armor to keep shells from reaching their magazines (Queen Mary was the only certain, turret-only explosion) So exactly how the mags got touched off wasn't cut and dried.
8:40 that must have been one hell of a moment hearing all those ships responding in turn with there sirens and moving into formation, reminds me of the Ride of the Rohirrim at the Battle of the Pelennor Fields
"Then Ar-Pharazôn ... let raise his standard, and he gave the signal for the raising of the anchors; and in that hour the trumpets of Númenor outrang the thunder."
HMS Warspite’s response to Scheer’s frustrations: “I am defiant of my own side’s attempts to bring me to an end, do you think I’m just going to roll over for an adversary?”
I love that Scheer started taking it as a personal insult that he couldn't sink the Warspite. "What the hell!? Just sink already when I shoot you you sink those are the rules!! You're the breaking the rules!"
@@thehandoftheking3314 There was some ground war movie where they talked about someone I think in ww2 in case of contact with enemy taking the radio off and shooting through it, since the bloody thing would not work anyway when he'd need it and this way he would at least know why. Interesting suggestion to extend it to whole squadrons :-)
Given that the idea was allways that ideally two fleets would face off the Germans together, it would have been insanity to make both commanders be of same rank. While Beaty was operating an independent/detached fleet, he was supposed to coordinate with Jellico, and probably obey him since Jellico was bringing all the big guns.
The problem with Warspite is that she was in bad shape at the end of WW2 (that Fritz X did a number on her). I presume it wasn't just for quick bucks that she was scrapped (since scrapping a warship nets the navy pretty minimal money, as drach mentioned in a recent Drydock), but that restoring her to any condition to be a museum ship would've been an expensive prospect for a nation that was bankrupted by the war.
21:51 "Difficult though the situation is, Scheer didn't get to be commander of The High Seas Fleet by writing in for a competition or winning it in a cereal packet".
@@wookieblaster I recall reading somewhere that Missouri's 16 inch rifles had a "point blank" noise level around 217 decibels. That is, like, you're practically straddling the gun barrel. While those are larger and more powerful than Lion's 13.5s by a fair margin, I would imagine if he was close enough to have his pants forcibly removed by the shockwave, he was definitely close enough to be in the "many days before your ears stop ringing and return to normal, assuming they do at all" range of things.
Night actions in a nutshell: German ships: O no some British Ships British ships: Hey who're you? German ships: (Opens fire) British ships: (Opens fire) German ships: (Run away) British ships: Hey we won! British sailor: Should we contact Jellicoe? British officer: Nah.
@Mock Harris but they did.then next time the high fleet sailed was to surrender all ships to the british at scapa flow. If there was not a winner there was a loser lol
@Mock Harris simply downhill so much so the German sailors refuse to fight more loss of ships, end result of ww1 high sea fleet sits at the bottom of scapa flow.
@@topbanana4013 in 1918 yes. Following the battle of jutland however the germans repeatedly sortied again, hoping to score a second jutland, given the tactical victory the first presented
@@matthiasbindl7085 they never sail again as fleet and why search when the grand fleet was still there ? And you say technical victory so does that mean Argentina won the Falklands war because that's what you are saying now
@@gokbay3057 And the strike that hit _Hiryu_ launched from _Enterprise._ Granted, both the scout that found the target and the majority of that last strike were orphans from _Yorktown._ Partial credit, I'd say.
Poor old Seydlitz. Like a wounded soldier dragging himself home centimeter by centimeter, and collapses from exhaustion the moment he pulls himself over the trench. These ships are so very human.
We call them by names, their pronouns are he and she, depending on the navy, and they seem to display a certain spirit. The collective work of all the little humans that built them, and the other little humans that crew them seems to imbibe a them with a sort of soul.
Imagine finding out that you missed the opportunity to inflict one of the most decisive defeats in naval history because most of the offices under you didn't think things like the position of the enemy fleet was important information.
"Straps myself down" Here we go !!!!! Last time I was this early, Victory was an acorn. Btw I had chills when Drach was reading off the names in the British battleline.
If you want more on Communication issues and even more on the Battle "The Rules of the Game" by Andrew Gordon is pretty exhaustive (and a bit more balanced).
My great-great-grandfather was the sole survivor on the cruiser ship Wiesbaden. His name was Walter Zipple. Awesome videos thank you. RIP to all the souls that were lost in battle of jutland ❤ 🙏
the sole survivor of the SMS Wiesbaden was confirmed to be Hugo Zenne, rescued by a Norwegian freighter. He probably served on some other ship, or you are spewing bullshit
@@magnum6763No information on anyone with that name surviving the battle of jutland, at least not on the internet. Maybe his great grandfather was a perpetrator of stolen valor?
@@Tyggis777Mr. Zenne is confirmed. Rank "Oberheizer", so something like "fireman first class" if you translate it. A famous crew member of "Wiesbaden" was writer Heinrich Kienau aka "Gorch Fock", after which two sailing training vessels are named.
Hi Drach...as usual I am commenting on a vid some 8 months after you posted it - always on time :) Thank you for acknowledging Jellicoe's masterfull deployement of the Grand Fleet and the tactical deplyment to port. Mere words almost fail to describe the inspired decisions taken by him in those crucial moments. I firmly beleive almost any other officer of comparable experience and seniority would have failed in the breach. Whilst pondering Jutland over many years I have returned to this conclusion despite the mountains of dissertations published by "Archair Admirals" and that fill the letters and editorials of the newspapers of the following months. In particular, I have always considered Beatty's actions at Jutland reprehensible - an almost naked attempt at single-handedly winning the entire engagement with the Batllecruiser Fleet alone, as heavy as the Battlecruiser Fleet was in its constituent parts. His actions were contrary to the most basic functions and purpose of any cruiser Commander under those circumstances and, in my humble opinion, flew a whisker short of deriliction of duty. Had he not enjoyed the adulation of the press, and a rakish style that won the hearts of the ladies, their Lordships may have publicly pursued a markedly different approach albeit maintaining the closed ranks of the Senior Service. Sorry to have taken so long but this is a topic of truly endless speculation...what does another few months matter after all these years?
Here's a drinking game: Take a shot every time Beaty doesn't do his job, like not reporting the enemy position on his own initiative, or not replying to requests for this information sent by grand fleet. This game is only recommended for hardend drinkers...
@@scottyfox6376 Afaik Beatty started a PR campaign to push his version out and controll the narrative. Washing himself clean of his shortcommings and laying the blame on Jellicoe. Given Beatty's later career, he must have been quite succesfull.
I feel bad for jellicoe! He basically got all the blame for the losses in the battle! It was Beatty who messed up, and is essentially responsible for the deaths of thousands of sailors for his reckless cocky actions!
@@stevenmoore4612 Yeah, Jellicoe made an absurdly hard call based on incomplete information from an incompetent subordinate and managed to come up with the best solution he could have done, leading to a substantial victory.
Previously on Jutland... British Sailors: “Look, it’s zee Germans!” Admiral Hipper: “Feuer frei!” Zee Germans: “Feuer frei!” German Panzerkreuzer: “Boom! Boom!!” Admiral Beatty: “Where is the 5th Squadron? Good god man, Flags, you’re an idiot!” (Turns to Captain Chatfield) “If he still thinks he’s going to marry my niece, he can go jump off a cliff!” British Battlecruisers: “Boom! Boom!!” British Gunner: “Too much cordite you say? There’s no such thing...” HMS Indefatigable: (Explodes) “KaaaBOOOOM!!! Splash! Plop!” German Officers on Von der Tann: (Watches Indefatigable explode, roll over and then sink) Gunnery Officer KK Mahrholz: “That’s a Bingo!” German Officer 1: “You just say Bingo...” British Officers : “How many battlecruisers we got today? 5? 6? I don’t know! Just tell ‘em to fire faster!!” HMS Queen Mary: (Explodes) “Boom! Boom! KABOOOM!!! Boom! Splish! Splash! Plop plop!” German Officer 1: “Whoa...” German Officer 2: “You act like you’ve never seen an English Battlecruiser explode before...” Admiral Hipper: (As he watches HMS Queen Mary blow up) “Tell Admiral Mauve zee English must have stolen another one of his Fünf-Minuten Schiff!! Tell him they stole at least two!!” British Officers on HMS New Zealand: “It’s raining flaming, British battlecruiser bits again...” HMS New Zealand Paymaster: “Don’t worry mate, Captain’s got his piu-piu on.” HMS New Zealand Officer: “I’d feel better if you wore one too...” HMS New Zealand Paymaster: “And ruin my new trousers?! I think not...” Admiral Beatty: “There seems to be something wrong with our bloody ships today...” Captain Chatfield: (Looks back at smoking amidship turret) “There’s certainly something wrong with Q turret...” Admiral Beatty: “I’d say you should remind me to buy that chap in Q turret Harvey a pint when this is all over, if not for the fact he’s most certainly dead...” Lt. Ralph “Flags” Seymour: “Admiral sir, 5th Battleship Squadron sighted! And if I’m reading their signal correctly, they’re under attack by Japanese torpedo boats!” Captain Chatfield: “Damnit David, why couldn’t you have assigned that ignoramus Flags to Q turret!” British Battlecruisers and German Panzerkreuzer: “Boom! Boom!! Boom!” •Dramatic Pause• British and German Lookouts simultaneously: “Enemy Battleships in sight!” Admiral Scheer and Admiral Jellicoe simultaneously on split screen: “We’ve got them now!!” To be continued.... And now for Part II (Edit: Bonus Content)
Is there any reason, why Rearadmiral Mauve (Commander of the 2nd Battlesquadron), and Captain Johannes Harthog (Commanding officer of SMS Derfflinger, and commanding the battlecruiser death ride) did not recieve the Pour le Merite? Both threw their ships against impossible odds, and made it out alive, showing immense bravery for doing so. Also, Harthog's ship performed exceedingly well, and managed, to destroy 2 battlecruisers. I honestly do not quite get, the criteria for it, aside of "Officers only". Because seemingly Flying Aces got that stuff rather easily compared to all other branches.
"Derfflinger was doing a good impression of an underwater Swiss cheese." This is the kind of top quality humour that I subscribe for...I mean, that and the naval stuff, obviously.
On the HMS Chester when she engaged the four German cruisers...Gun Layer Jack Cornwell... "The KING has been graciously pleased to approve the grant of the Victoria Cross to Boy, First Class, John Travers Cornwell, O.N.J.42563 (died 2 June 1916), for the conspicuous act of bravery specified below. Mortally wounded early in the action, Boy, First Class, Jack Travers Cornwell remained standing alone at a most exposed post, quietly awaiting orders, until the end of the action, with the gun's crew dead and wounded all round him. His age was under sixteen and a half years."
@@45641560456405640563 Yes, by Frank O. Salisbury. More info on Cornwell and the Chester can be found here...www.iwm.org.uk/history/boy-1st-class-john-jack-travers-cornwell-vc
He had huge shrapnel in his chest. He died in Grimsby hospital, buried at Forest Gate East London ,I’ve laid poppies on his grave, a true blue Cockney boy
i have no real understanding of these kinds of naval tactics and its sooo good to see it visualised and explained like this. the moment when the british battleline forms and the sirens are sounded sent shudders down my spine, its just so epic. good thing something like this will likely never happen again, greetings from germany!
Without rushing the artist, I have felt the background apprehensiveness for weeks now, awaiting the arrival of your battle walk-through part 2. 1st, it was a great decision to break it into parts. 2nd, thank you for your time and effort! Impressive footage, commentary, and modeling/mapping for understanding.
While we all agree on the incompetence of Beatty and love to hate on Seymour I think that it is important to remember that Seymour most likely also was a victim on Beatty rather than a villain on his own. It is clear that he at least was a victim of the Peter Principle and we can probably blame Beatty for having promoted him to that point. Seymour's reward for his brief stint in the limelight was terrible. We know that Beatty threw him under the bus when convenient but they also banned him from their house when he had the temerity to suggest that he would like to date Lady Beatty's niece (who was promptly sent back to the US). Finally suffering from insecurity and guilt he ended his life by throwing himself off a cliff in Brighton on October 7th 1922.
Beatty was a deeply unpleasent man, he married a floozy American who abused their son who had issues (mental and physcial), then cheated on her with her nurse and then didn't listen to Jellicoe when suggesting moving the base from Singapore or reinforce it with aircraft and submarines
Thank you so much for this. We lost a relative, Phillip John Norrish, known as Johnny, when HMS Defence exploded during the battle of Jutland. Born in Tenby in 1892 (so not far from Pembroke Dock where HMS Defence was built), he first joined the GWR as a boy, becoming cleaner at Tenby Railway station. At 18 he signed up with the RN in 1910 for a 12 year engagement. He joined HMS Defence in September 1913 and was promoted to leading seaman 1st October 1915. Just prior to the battle he visited his parents at Tynemouth, (where they had moved to be with his sister), and his little niece remembered him tossing her up in the air and catching her. It came a huge shock when they heard of his death so shortly afterwards. The family have never forgotten him, and have kept all the memorabilia connected with him very carefully. Incidentally his brother William was also in the RN at the same time, and was also involved in the battle, being on board HMS Collingwood at the time. In Johnny’s last letter, he wrote ‘ I suppose you worry where I am all the time but there is no need to worry. I am quite safe. ‘ What a tragedy that he and his other ship mates were all lost in this tragic battle. We have long wanted to know of the details of the loss of HMS Defence and your wonderful programme has explained it all so clearly. Thank you so much.
Christ Drach I wish you'd been my GCSE history teacher. We covered all this in great detail but I've had no idea what actually happened until now... A gold star for you sir. Thanks.
If I were the New Zealand’s paymaster, I’d save face by declaring that I’d gone up on deck and lost my trousers intentionally, then fashioned a second Maori piu-piu skirt out of whatever I could find. With British battlecruisers exploding left and right, who’d not want double the luck?
Drach, as an informal (but informed) student of military naval history, I have to say that your comprehensive analysis of the Battle of Jutland is the finest that I have ever encountered. Great job! I can hardly wait for Part 3!
how is it possible that so many destroyer squadrons encountered the German fleet and so many men were in command at various times, yet absolutely none of them actually report anything? between Beatty's incompetence in command, the loss of so many ships to magazine explosions due in no small part to failures in gunnery practices, all the destroyers forgetting that radio exists throughout the night, and the lack of initiative on the part of the grand fleet in the morning, the after action reports must have been fucking horrendous for anyone higher ranked than able seaman.
It's 2 in the morning, you've been in battle for over 10 hours, and your ship is shot to pieces, possibly with body parts all over the deck. Do you really want to ask your superiors if you should make another attack?
He was a very cunning and perceptive fellow who correctly anticipated what Jellico would do and so did something different that was riskier, but saved his fleet thanks to British incompetence at passing messages.
@@gamebook727 Scheer tried to get away from the grand fleet by turning east but then he ran straight into them again..... then did the same when he turned west? He was lucky to get away tbh i bet he thought he was surrounded
SMS Wiesbaden: ...who wants some!? Come one, get some! I've quite a few torpedoes left. British: You're about to sink. Wiesbaden: T'is but a flesh wound.
Best episode by far. Your audio is very clear, you’re very well prepared (as you usually are), and you explain a very complex battle in an understandable manner. Great job and great video! Very engaging.
I always suspected that Scheers re-engagement was an accident, that he simply thought there wouldn't be any more ships there. Every documentary I've seen so far has left this point rather ambiguous. Glad to see I was somewhat right.
From 9:00 onwards, that run down of the Royal navy order of battle, makes my hair stand on end and sends shiver up my spine in awe of such a fleet. In need to take minute...
Congratulations! I've read many accounts of this unique battle, both in print, online and in graphical reconstruction. But this one is by far the easiest to follow in detail - the easiest to understand because it manages to balance a large-scale perspective in its narration and diagrams, against a command of detail that is always purposeful. So detail always contributes to the larger picture. And the graphical presentation of the battle is excellent.
I very much enjoy your work @Drachinifel and thank you for covering one of the most interesting sea battles of history! Did you get a chance to study Sir Julian Corbett's account in the official history? Well worth a read and Corbett took the (then unpopular) view of condemning Beatty's actions (mostly through impartial statement of fact haha!) The official history itself is fascinating as being amongst the last works of Corbett before his passing; and it wasn't finished!
I am genuinely surprised that Jellicoe did not have Beatty brought up for court martial on charges of gross insubordination for deliberately refusing to acknowledge the messages of a superior officer regarding the position of the High Seas Fleet. True, numerous commanders of smaller ships and flotillas also failed to report their contacts during the night engagement and should have been held accountable, but this can be at least moderated by the confusion inherent in a night action. Beatty has no such defense; he had the Germans right there in front of him, his superior mere minutes away with the Grand Fleet, with positional information regarding the High Seas Fleet at its most precious, and yet this arrogant inept windbag who had already sent two of his battlecruisers to the bottom by his negligent ship handling doctrine simply chose to say nothing at all, very nearly resulting in the greatest disaster in Royal Navy history. Had I been in Jellicoe's position, upon return I would have chartered the fastest railway engine available to take me direct to Rosyth just so I could put the service revolver to Beatty's head myself.
Excellent. Really brings out just how good an admiral Jellicoe was. The right man, with the right gear, at the right time, let down by the worng man from acheieving the second Trafalgar demanded by the press. Its interesting to speculate on what might have been the difference if the HSF had been as beaten as they could have been. The Somme would certainly still happen, but perhaps not Paaschendael.
warspite didn't have problems with its rudder. It was a time traveler doing the naval equal of a burn out to style on the enemy. Sheer was right to be insulted.
I appreciate the inclusion of markers to denote which formation is it since in last video I had trouble telling German from British warships even though they were tehnically painted differently. But the markers could still use some work since in a lot of photos they aren't properly legible. Maybe photoshop them in afterwards. Also marking specifically where the specific ship we are talking about in line would be nice.
Fantastic! Thank you. So in oversimplified summary: The German fleet was incredibly lucky, or unlucky depending on your point of view. Jellicoe did a remarkably good job given the spectacular incompetence of all his senior officers, many of his junior officers, and the admiralty... ...indeed if I were Jellicoe I might have reserved a bullet for Beatty's incompetence bordering on treason and as a warning to others.
Commander Loftus William Jones VC (posthumous) of HMS Shark and Commander Ernest Edwin Evans U.S. Medal of Honor (posthumous) of USS Johnston, two ferocious destroyer skippers and kindred spirits. RIP.
Hey Tin boat skippers were required to be somewhat crazy. It takes a special kind of courage to command a ship that barely weighed more than one of the main turrets on the ships they were attacking
My grandfather fought in this battle as a member of a gun crew onboard his dreadnought. He survived this battle and I am here today . God bless my grandfather Chris who I am named after .
The tragedy of Jutland for both the Royal Navy and the war effort is the utter incompetence of Beatty, compounded by his being “one of us”, as in a member of the upper class, whereas Jellico was “Middle Class” and not one of Churchill’s favourites. Beatty should never have been promoted after this, but, “friends in high places” ... To that I must add the sheer lack of initiative among many of the officers who failed, multiple times, to report movements of enemy ships, engagements or anything else. Ironically some of those responsible for this failure would repeat this while in more senior roles in WW2.
Beatty was a man who completely over estimated his ability. However he had the protection of his uppercrust mates. Jellicoe was the lower class scapegoat.
The more I read and watch about this battle (beyond 'History channel' levels of quality) the more I am convinced that the HSF avoided a massive disaster and possibly a 2nd day of battle (which would have amounted to the same thing) by the very thinnest of margins and chance. Its no wonder they never sortied again. Imagine if Jellicoe had gotten some hard intel and headed for Horns reef in time for sunrise?
Not sure if anyone else felt the same way, but 8:30-8:38 (Especially, 8:37) is arguably the most impactful moment in this entire video (i.e. it's the part that I remember most of all). And @Drachinifel nailed the moment perfectly with his narration
The part I like most about the German retreat is that Seydlitz only managed to reach the harbor because, after reaching the relative safety of the horn reefs, she actually came to a halt and started steaming in reverse. This was done because the damage to her bow section was so large that driving forwards actually accelerated her flooding.
Excellent one! Very educational! I would love to see an updated version of your take on Enterprise CV-6. Your videos are packed with incredible detail.
The Destroyers for the most part had the excuse that they were being jammed, most of them tried. The Battleships were in formation, they could flash it if they had to (but they didn't). And that's assuming that it would have reached Jellico. One radio message from the end of the day action took 15 minutes to get from the radio room to the bridge. And his staff wouldn't wake him up when the Admiralty radioed him later that night. The deployment was great. But there is argument he should have already have been in single line (he KNEW the enemy was out there, and the next morning, he pulled back into line at daybreak rather than waiting for contact). He won a battle, but most people felt it could have been much more.
Thank you Drach, for turning a 72 yr old man into the equivalent of a Marvel Movie fanboy as I wait for the next video ( on actually any subject but..) on Jutland.
It would be cool to see a video on the Moltke class Seydlitz . I saw a book years ago that detail the damage done to it and the close encounters it had with the British fleet and yet made it back to port . If I remember it right it was the most damaged ship to make it back home till WW2 and the USS Franklin .
I'm a big fan of how your using models to show the positions, it makes things far more clear than it was in your Battle of Texel video. Out of curiosity will this be an ongoing thing for your battle breakdown specials or will it only be for the big special ones like this?
@@Drachinifel I'm really enjoying this series, so a big thanks. Little bit of feedback: if I didn't already know the basic flow of the battle, neither the maps or the models would help me much. I like the idea, but both flash by too quickly for me to work out what they mean (I know I could pause, but you're usually saying something interesting at the time and I don't want to lose the thread of that). With the maps, I'm still trying to work out who is red and who is blue, what a dotted line means, and what the solid areas mean. With the models, I've only just realized that the German flag is very similar to the white ensign (at least on a small screen with the "help" of YT compression), I still can't see at a glance which way the ships are travelling, and I'm not sure which way is North or if that's consistent from image to image. No way can I tell the difference between the British battlecruiser squadron and the squadron of QE's, so the images of those two plus Hipper plus light forces just look like a jumble to me. Maybe just talk to the map or model that's on screen for the first few times we see them? But it might just be my slow visual processing, and none of this prevents me from enjoying these excellent videos :)
Pinned post for Q&A :)
You were once asked, to name the other navies Kamchatkas. What about the other navies USS Johnstons?
Also, the Giulio Cesare sunk in Soviet service as Noworossijsk in 1955 because of an explosion at the front part of the ship. There are some conspiracies, as to what this explosion was, because the details are a little here and there. What do you think caused this explosion?
Not pinned.
if you were the pm of australia how would you change the australian navy's procurement/production fom 1918 to 1945 if you had full hind sight . ps love your vids
What rules do you use when you wargame your alternate history engagements? Is it a published rule set or custom?
Would the Grand fleet have benefitted from transmitting data directly through the radio once the action had been joined by Beatty's ships?
I had an interesting comment to make, but I failed to report it to Jellicoe
Damn fine comment. I laughed long at it.
I was going to respond, but Tribune Aquilla was unavailable to give his approval.
@48:02 I can't understand what is said... Overs? Ogres? Idk...
@@ДжонПартлов "I could see nothing of the results of the firing owing to the glare of the searchlights.."
@@Jpecky131 I don't think you got what I was trying to point out but thankyou... I was talking about them saying "overs" like shells passing overhead. Or at least I think so
Not much sadder than hearing the words 'Sank with all hands'.
for submariners...Overdue...presumed lost...
@@pdogone1 on eternal patrol
@@AtomicBabel lest we forget..my dad always had a special regard for submariners..he was a gunners mate/boatswains mate 1943 to 1963..he has rejoined his shipmates ...Eternal Father Strong To Save..
pdogone1 at the naval undersea museum near port townsend is a memorial wall engraved with the names of US submarines lost during the Second World War. Very sobering. And nothing short of a tragedy that the brave men on those ships who gave their lives fighting are shrouded in historical obscurity.
@@ozone-xv7hk sadly true...think we lost 50 subs during WW2...had to also endure two years of one of the worst torpedoes ever developed.. a scandal in itself (budget constraints before the war)
"I totally meant to do that." -HMS Warspite
Ha!
Warspite goes where Warspite wishes.
Warspite had a "Get down Mr. President!" moment
Battle of Jutland summed up- The Grand Fleet almost unanimously decides to not tell Jellicoe a damned thing. Jellicoe does his best in spite of incompetence. Scheer rolls natural 20s all night long.
Love this comment!
True
Honestly those captains who failed to signal the sightings should have been court martialed and discharged from service in disgrace.
Unless the commanding officer is Russian. In which case the withholding of such intelligence is likely warranted.
Great, now I'm reading this in a Jeremy Clarkson "Top Gear" recap voice. "Tonight on Jutland: ..."
I can't even begin to comprehend how angry Jellicoe must have been once he eventually found out all the signals and reports that never got sent to him. It's mind blowing just how many people dropped so many balls at so many different times during the engagement.
Jellicoe couldn't be mad, he's the guy that hand-picked his Captains and Admirals (one of whom was described as "having a Pumpkin for a head"). He WANTED them to do what he told them and nothing else (the Captain of the Defense wasn't his call). Jutland is when it was found out just what "nothing else" lead to. Remember, Drac has ties to part of a feud that's been going a century, there's a LOT of dirt on both sides.
@@drewdederer8965 wtf are you talking about
@@TR-ru7wl No clue. No idea what he is saying at all.
@@drewdederer8965 ...Classic British elitism at its best. Only the swells are competent to lead the forces, and no son of a farmer will ever become Lord High Admiral - we've got standards to maintain, they said.
Meanwhile we Canadians, using independently-minded farm-boy soldiers & modern thinking by our general staff, managed to take Vimy Ridge without serious losses. The British were humiliated that ex-colonists could show them up...
@@jrb_sland5066 in fairness. They were also Canadians. The guys the Germans thought of as shock troops and whose presence was so terrifying that it reached a point Germans could be fooled into thinking which portion of a line was going to be attacked based on where the Canadians were being moved to...
Good old granddad was on the Iron Duke, aged 16 (boy seaman). RIP old boy.
They called him up for Arctic Convoys in WW2 as well. 😲
"During the war" ...
@@VersusARCH
Nah, he mainly talked about cricket. Jack Hobbs in particular.
Can't imagine fighting in 2 world wars.
Uncle Albert?
@@CSSVirginia
I think that, with boy sailors and recalled reservists, the Royal Navy must have had quite a few who went through that double experience.
Granddad's last action of note was clearing mines on the Normandy approaches on the night of 5/6 June 1944.
In the words of Count Dooku: _"I've been looking forward to this."_
>a fragment of the god-emperor is a weeb
that's just statistical inevitability, isn't it?
Twice the pride, *double the fall*
Dialogue upon the commissioning of HMS Warspite
Cpt. Phillpotts: "What's her belt armor again?"
RN Design engineer: "13 in."
Cpt. Phillpotts: "Are you sure it is adequate?"
RN Design engineer: "Yes, because it's doubled by plot armor, and that's 20 ft thick all around."
Cpt. Phillpotts: "Jolly good."
Warrior:"Omg thank for coming to our rescue!"
Warspite:"We did? I mean... yes, yes we did."
@@jlvfr Warspite: Of course we did! Britannia Rule The Waves and all that!
And we were most definitely not doing the "Bismarck" move before it had become all the rage.
No no no!
@@nicgeorgescu6523 :D :D
João Rita
‘Warspite rams HMS Warrior just to be on the safe side’
@@TBone-bz9mp Well hell that would be one way to ensure enemy would not sink them :-)
What a great opportunity was lost when Beatty was born in Britain rather than Russia, thus missing the chance to captain _Kamchatka._
That would be a match made in frozen hell. :D
*Torpedo Boats appear out of thin. air
Just the Battle of Jutland raging all around and then suddenly "Do you see torpedo boats?" is transmitted to all vessels.
Nah its Beatty.. he'd probably fail to report the torpedo boats
@@josephthomas8318 Touché. Kamchatka under Beatty would probably be the first to spot the Japanese and elect to say nothing.
The more I learn about Jutland, the more I appreciate Jellicoe's skill as a commander. He was operating at a time with limited communication while receiving piecemeal and often faulty information, yet he was still able to achieve his strategic objectives. A lot of the blame fell on his head for what were effectively design issues - in terms of handling his fleet, he performed extremely well and acted reasonably, based on the information given to him.
Beatty... :-|
In fairness, he did basically cover-up his role in getting people killed by opening the ship doors, and he basically invented the plunging-fire myth to hide the truth, which also got Hood killed in WW2.
@@bubbasbigblast8563 plunging fire myth?
@@naverilllang The idea was the British ships were sunk by German shells coming in at a high angle, easily penetrating the British ships and destroying them. The admirals suggested more armor be added to prevent this.
The actual investigation didn't bear this out: if the ships had followed pre-war procedure, the loss of a turret wouldn't cause the loss of a ship. The engineer responsible for the investigation didn't press the issue though, so most of the British had no idea that the German shells had nothing to do with the actual loss of the ships.
There were a LOT of things that came out of the investigation of the explosions. First was that British Cordite wasn't very stable (it could "flash" a LONG distance, German Powder tended to just burn). Too, the British ships had a "working chamber" halfway between the magazine and the guns, thus giving another flash source helping fire to reach the magazines. (how much removed equipment helped this wasn't testable, NONE of the British Battleships took a barabette or turret penetrating hit). The BBs DID have fires within their secondaries. Malaya had an ammunition fire flash along the casemates that burned out an entire side of 6 inchers, but didn't touch off the magazine. Defense appeared to have something similar in her 7.5 inchers just before she blew up. Thirdly (and Dracs mentioned this) Indefatigable and Invincible didn't have enough armor to keep shells from reaching their magazines (Queen Mary was the only certain, turret-only explosion) So exactly how the mags got touched off wasn't cut and dried.
8:40 that must have been one hell of a moment hearing all those ships responding in turn with there sirens and moving into formation, reminds me of the Ride of the Rohirrim at the Battle of the Pelennor Fields
It must have been a grand sight! Seeing massive fleet action by highly trained and capable crews. What an amazing sight it must have been.
Needed a little of the obligatory "Ride of the Valkyries".
Tolkien based that in part on the charge of the polish Hussars at Vienna, with King Jan Sobieski in the role of Theoden.
Death! Death! DEATH!
"Then Ar-Pharazôn ... let raise his standard, and he gave the signal for the raising of the anchors; and in that hour the trumpets of Númenor outrang the thunder."
HMS Warspite’s response to Scheer’s frustrations: “I am defiant of my own side’s attempts to bring me to an end, do you think I’m just going to roll over for an adversary?”
I love that Scheer started taking it as a personal insult that he couldn't sink the Warspite. "What the hell!? Just sink already when I shoot you you sink those are the rules!! You're the breaking the rules!"
Might just be my favorite ship ever.
@@theghostofyourwastedmoney9007for me it’s a good thing he did, because my great great uncle was commanding HMS Warrior.
Old girl ruled.
I think if I was Jellico I would have just given up fighting the germans and just turned my guns on Beatty instead
"Where are the germans? Or else!"
And the rest of the captains who forget the point of Communication
@@thehandoftheking3314 There was some ground war movie where they talked about someone I think in ww2 in case of contact with enemy taking the radio off and shooting through it, since the bloody thing would not work anyway when he'd need it and this way he would at least know why. Interesting suggestion to extend it to whole squadrons :-)
Given that the idea was allways that ideally two fleets would face off the Germans together, it would have been insanity to make both commanders be of same rank. While Beaty was operating an independent/detached fleet, he was supposed to coordinate with Jellico, and probably obey him since Jellico was bringing all the big guns.
@@stanleyrogouski Beatty was supposed to be his heavy scouting force
Take a shot everytime the phrase "...without reporting to Jellico" comes up.
Well only for the 1st dozen or so. After that you in no better condition to report then those failures. ;)
Why is the rum gone?
Spoiler alert: Beatty kills more people in 2020 than he did in 1916;)
Damn it, Warspite should've been kept as a museum ship
Very True. USS Enterprise too. And Yavuz/Goeben.
Nah - she had a mean streak - would have plunged civvies into darkness and deliberately got children lost in her depths. That and she was ruined.
At the very least, she went out on her own terms, defiant to the very end.
@@wolfbyte3171 For she so loved the world that she wanted to give public displays of affection to all of it...
The problem with Warspite is that she was in bad shape at the end of WW2 (that Fritz X did a number on her). I presume it wasn't just for quick bucks that she was scrapped (since scrapping a warship nets the navy pretty minimal money, as drach mentioned in a recent Drydock), but that restoring her to any condition to be a museum ship would've been an expensive prospect for a nation that was bankrupted by the war.
HMS Spitfire - literally getting a piece of the Nassau. USS Johnston would approve.
I can fondly imagine a scouser on the deck sticking two fingers up at Nassau at Spit sails into the dark
Hey man, never turn down a chance to up-armor. lol
@@agentx250 "You guys weren't using this, were you?"
@@richmcgee434 "ere mate, calm down, calm down! I just found it dinna? Eh, eh?"
@Rich McGee Spitfire was just getting her legendary upgrade after weeks of grinding World of Warships.
I use those docs as bed time stories. Drachinifel jokes keeps me awake tho, making my nights very short.
HMS Spitfire skipper: “men! You see that section of belt armor? About 20ft or so?
Crew: “Yes, sir? What about it?”
Skipper: *”I NEED IT!”*
souvenir for the kids 😂
21:51 "Difficult though the situation is, Scheer didn't get to be commander of The High Seas Fleet by writing in for a competition or winning it in a cereal packet".
What cereal do I need to be eating!?
@@Pyxis10 Captain Crunch
Unlike Beatty...
@@dupplinmuir113 Came here to make exactly this comment. :)
@@nitehawk86 Great minds think alike!
;)
*warspite hit by 12 shells and sails away*
Germans: “Hackers! Reported! Damn wallet warriors!”
This is what happens when a high level player decides to make a new account,
British battleships are op dude :/
Don't worry I reported her
Hah
fucking server ping man
"So let me understand.. you want to accuse a turret for stealing your trousers??"
It's not called turret monster for nothing.
@@WielkaKasza Yes... but still better than the other shell monsters taking off the gun crew's ankles!
I bet the guy had hearing problems after. The muzzle blast from naval guns is brutal.
@@wookieblaster I recall reading somewhere that Missouri's 16 inch rifles had a "point blank" noise level around 217 decibels. That is, like, you're practically straddling the gun barrel.
While those are larger and more powerful than Lion's 13.5s by a fair margin, I would imagine if he was close enough to have his pants forcibly removed by the shockwave, he was definitely close enough to be in the "many days before your ears stop ringing and return to normal, assuming they do at all" range of things.
@@andrewgause6971 keep in mind, 194db is the volume at which the sound pressure wave is lethal. 217 kills you and turns all your guts into paté
Night actions in a nutshell:
German ships: O no some British Ships
British ships: Hey who're you?
German ships: (Opens fire)
British ships: (Opens fire)
German ships: (Run away)
British ships: Hey we won!
British sailor: Should we contact Jellicoe?
British officer: Nah.
I think its called a confused outcome
@Mock Harris but they did.then next time the high fleet sailed was to surrender all ships to the british at scapa flow. If there was not a winner there was a loser lol
@Mock Harris simply downhill so much so the German sailors refuse to fight more loss of ships, end result of ww1 high sea fleet sits at the bottom of scapa flow.
@@topbanana4013 in 1918 yes. Following the battle of jutland however the germans repeatedly sortied again, hoping to score a second jutland, given the tactical victory the first presented
@@matthiasbindl7085 they never sail again as fleet and why search when the grand fleet was still there ? And you say technical victory so does that mean Argentina won the Falklands war because that's what you are saying now
Lutzow and Invincible really did that thing where you kill the opponent that kills you lmao
Hiryuu and Yorktown did something similar in Midway. Except for the fact that Yorktown survived and was in the end sunk by the Submarine I-168.
Martyrdom: drop a grenade when killed
@@gokbay3057 And the strike that hit _Hiryu_ launched from _Enterprise._
Granted, both the scout that found the target and the majority of that last strike were orphans from _Yorktown._ Partial credit, I'd say.
@@Philistine47 an assist, I suppose
Always feels good when you die but then get "It's Just a Flesh Wound" from fire or flooding 30 seconds later
Poor old Seydlitz. Like a wounded soldier dragging himself home centimeter by centimeter, and collapses from exhaustion the moment he pulls himself over the trench. These ships are so very human.
We call them by names, their pronouns are he and she, depending on the navy, and they seem to display a certain spirit. The collective work of all the little humans that built them, and the other little humans that crew them seems to imbibe a them with a sort of soul.
@@magisterrleth3129 - This thought is analogous to the Machine Spirits of 40k.
It's a bit like that guy who ran to marathon and died after giving them the warning
*laughs in Azur Lane*
But in all seriousness it’s true, I agree with this
@Yuri Setsuna
I'd love to see that picture once it's done!
I wonder how many pairs of binoculars Jellicoe threw overboard?
Brits don't do that sort of stuff
@@Mungobohne1 True, but he wouldn't have been wrong in having that level of frustration.
All of them
Poor Devils all 900 of them Blown all to hell by the HSF
Imagine telling Jellicoe anything ever
This post made by the Grand Fleet gang
The Battle Cruiser squadron
Imagine finding out that you missed the opportunity to inflict one of the most decisive defeats in naval history because most of the offices under you didn't think things like the position of the enemy fleet was important information.
"Straps myself down" Here we go !!!!!
Last time I was this early, Victory was an acorn.
Btw I had chills when Drach was reading off the names in the British battleline.
Ahh, that's nothing. Last time I was this early, Beatty actually hit something.
@@MSNL123 impressive.....most impressive.
He forgot to add Thunderchild bringing up the rear
Think I'll go back to listen to that bit again...those names.
@@billbolton so much history and prestige.
Moral of this story: never overestimate the ability of the grand fleet to communicate
If you want more on Communication issues and even more on the Battle "The Rules of the Game" by Andrew Gordon is pretty exhaustive (and a bit more balanced).
Correction: never assume that the grand fleet will understand what communication is
My great-great-grandfather was the sole survivor on the cruiser ship Wiesbaden. His name was Walter Zipple.
Awesome videos thank you. RIP to all the souls that were lost in battle of jutland ❤ 🙏
That’s very gracious of you to say so. If only the Great War would of been the war to end all wars!
the sole survivor of the SMS Wiesbaden was confirmed to be Hugo Zenne, rescued by a Norwegian freighter.
He probably served on some other ship, or you are spewing bullshit
@@magnum6763No information on anyone with that name surviving the battle of jutland, at least not on the internet. Maybe his great grandfather was a perpetrator of stolen valor?
@@Tyggis777Mr. Zenne is confirmed. Rank "Oberheizer", so something like "fireman first class" if you translate it. A famous crew member of "Wiesbaden" was writer Heinrich Kienau aka "Gorch Fock", after which two sailing training vessels are named.
Hi Drach...as usual I am commenting on a vid some 8 months after you posted it - always on time :) Thank you for acknowledging Jellicoe's masterfull deployement of the Grand Fleet and the tactical deplyment to port. Mere words almost fail to describe the inspired decisions taken by him in those crucial moments. I firmly beleive almost any other officer of comparable experience and seniority would have failed in the breach. Whilst pondering Jutland over many years I have returned to this conclusion despite the mountains of dissertations published by "Archair Admirals" and that fill the letters and editorials of the newspapers of the following months. In particular, I have always considered Beatty's actions at Jutland reprehensible - an almost naked attempt at single-handedly winning the entire engagement with the Batllecruiser Fleet alone, as heavy as the Battlecruiser Fleet was in its constituent parts. His actions were contrary to the most basic functions and purpose of any cruiser Commander under those circumstances and, in my humble opinion, flew a whisker short of deriliction of duty. Had he not enjoyed the adulation of the press, and a rakish style that won the hearts of the ladies, their Lordships may have publicly pursued a markedly different approach albeit maintaining the closed ranks of the Senior Service. Sorry to have taken so long but this is a topic of truly endless speculation...what does another few months matter after all these years?
Ah more Jutland. Two minutes in: Beatty does something stupid. "Ah... JUTLAND!".
Here's a drinking game:
Take a shot every time Beaty doesn't do his job, like not reporting the enemy position on his own initiative, or not replying to requests for this information sent by grand fleet.
This game is only recommended for hardend drinkers...
Yet Beatty received honor's & his career continues after Jutland.
@@scottyfox6376 Afaik Beatty started a PR campaign to push his version out and controll the narrative. Washing himself clean of his shortcommings and laying the blame on Jellicoe.
Given Beatty's later career, he must have been quite succesfull.
I feel bad for jellicoe! He basically got all the blame for the losses in the battle! It was Beatty who messed up, and is essentially responsible for the deaths of thousands of sailors for his reckless cocky actions!
@@stevenmoore4612 Yeah, Jellicoe made an absurdly hard call based on incomplete information from an incompetent subordinate and managed to come up with the best solution he could have done, leading to a substantial victory.
"4. It's a trap."
See, this should have been number one.
Previously on Jutland...
British Sailors: “Look, it’s zee Germans!”
Admiral Hipper: “Feuer frei!”
Zee Germans: “Feuer frei!”
German Panzerkreuzer: “Boom! Boom!!”
Admiral Beatty: “Where is the 5th Squadron? Good god man, Flags, you’re an idiot!” (Turns to Captain Chatfield) “If he still thinks he’s going to marry my niece, he can go jump off a cliff!”
British Battlecruisers: “Boom! Boom!!”
British Gunner: “Too much cordite you say? There’s no such thing...”
HMS Indefatigable: (Explodes) “KaaaBOOOOM!!! Splash! Plop!”
German Officers on Von der Tann: (Watches Indefatigable explode, roll over and then sink)
Gunnery Officer KK Mahrholz: “That’s a Bingo!”
German Officer 1: “You just say Bingo...”
British Officers : “How many battlecruisers we got today? 5? 6? I don’t know! Just tell ‘em to fire faster!!”
HMS Queen Mary: (Explodes) “Boom! Boom! KABOOOM!!! Boom! Splish! Splash! Plop plop!”
German Officer 1: “Whoa...”
German Officer 2: “You act like you’ve never seen an English Battlecruiser explode before...”
Admiral Hipper: (As he watches HMS Queen Mary blow up) “Tell Admiral Mauve zee English must have stolen another one of his Fünf-Minuten Schiff!! Tell him they stole at least two!!”
British Officers on HMS New Zealand: “It’s raining flaming, British battlecruiser bits again...”
HMS New Zealand Paymaster: “Don’t worry mate, Captain’s got his piu-piu on.”
HMS New Zealand Officer: “I’d feel better if you wore one too...”
HMS New Zealand Paymaster: “And ruin my new trousers?! I think not...”
Admiral Beatty: “There seems to be something wrong with our bloody ships today...”
Captain Chatfield: (Looks back at smoking amidship turret) “There’s certainly something wrong with Q turret...”
Admiral Beatty: “I’d say you should remind me to buy that chap in Q turret Harvey a pint when this is all over, if not for the fact he’s most certainly dead...”
Lt. Ralph “Flags” Seymour: “Admiral sir, 5th Battleship Squadron sighted! And if I’m reading their signal correctly, they’re under attack by Japanese torpedo boats!”
Captain Chatfield: “Damnit David, why couldn’t you have assigned that ignoramus Flags to Q turret!”
British Battlecruisers and German Panzerkreuzer: “Boom! Boom!! Boom!”
•Dramatic Pause•
British and German Lookouts simultaneously: “Enemy Battleships in sight!”
Admiral Scheer and Admiral Jellicoe simultaneously on split screen: “We’ve got them now!!”
To be continued....
And now for Part II
(Edit: Bonus Content)
Fucking amazing.
Wait, is there a Rammstein reference in here?
@@TheKingoftheKongs I think a Darth vader reference for sure...
@@TheKingoftheKongs Oh! Feuer Frei means free fire or open fire in German, but also a song by Rammstein.
Derek Frankovich an excellent song
Is there any reason, why Rearadmiral Mauve (Commander of the 2nd Battlesquadron), and Captain Johannes Harthog (Commanding officer of SMS Derfflinger, and commanding the battlecruiser death ride) did not recieve the Pour le Merite? Both threw their ships against impossible odds, and made it out alive, showing immense bravery for doing so.
Also, Harthog's ship performed exceedingly well, and managed, to destroy 2 battlecruisers.
I honestly do not quite get, the criteria for it, aside of "Officers only". Because seemingly Flying Aces got that stuff rather easily compared to all other branches.
Politics is the main reason
"Derfflinger was doing a good impression of an underwater Swiss cheese."
This is the kind of top quality humour that I subscribe for...I mean, that and the naval stuff, obviously.
"...but who had won?"
Unmistakably a victory for the fog of war.
On the HMS Chester when she engaged the four German cruisers...Gun Layer Jack Cornwell... "The KING has been graciously pleased to approve the grant of the Victoria Cross to Boy, First Class, John Travers Cornwell, O.N.J.42563 (died 2 June 1916), for the conspicuous act of bravery specified below. Mortally wounded early in the action, Boy, First Class, Jack Travers Cornwell remained standing alone at a most exposed post, quietly awaiting orders, until the end of the action, with the gun's crew dead and wounded all round him. His age was under sixteen and a half years."
Isn't there a painting of that scene? Or some illustration?
@@45641560456405640563 Yes, by Frank O. Salisbury. More info on Cornwell and the Chester can be found here...www.iwm.org.uk/history/boy-1st-class-john-jack-travers-cornwell-vc
Rest in Peace.
He had huge shrapnel in his chest. He died in Grimsby hospital, buried at Forest Gate East London ,I’ve laid poppies on his grave, a true blue Cockney boy
i have no real understanding of these kinds of naval tactics and its sooo good to see it visualised and explained like this. the moment when the british battleline forms and the sirens are sounded sent shudders down my spine, its just so epic. good thing something like this will likely never happen again, greetings from germany!
Without rushing the artist, I have felt the background apprehensiveness for weeks now, awaiting the arrival of your battle walk-through part 2. 1st, it was a great decision to break it into parts. 2nd, thank you for your time and effort! Impressive footage, commentary, and modeling/mapping for understanding.
While we all agree on the incompetence of Beatty and love to hate on Seymour I think that it is important to remember that Seymour most likely also was a victim on Beatty rather than a villain on his own. It is clear that he at least was a victim of the Peter Principle and we can probably blame Beatty for having promoted him to that point. Seymour's reward for his brief stint in the limelight was terrible. We know that Beatty threw him under the bus when convenient but they also banned him from their house when he had the temerity to suggest that he would like to date Lady Beatty's niece (who was promptly sent back to the US). Finally suffering from insecurity and guilt he ended his life by throwing himself off a cliff in Brighton on October 7th 1922.
Beatty was a deeply unpleasent man, he married a floozy American who abused their son who had issues (mental and physcial), then cheated on her with her nurse and then didn't listen to Jellicoe when suggesting moving the base from Singapore or reinforce it with aircraft and submarines
My only real gripe with Part 1 was identification on the model shots, glad to see that's been improved, great work
This is the best account of the battle I have come across. Detailed, thorough, and well executed. A great achievement.
Thank you so much for this. We lost a relative, Phillip John Norrish, known as Johnny, when HMS Defence exploded during the battle of Jutland. Born in Tenby in 1892 (so not far from Pembroke Dock where HMS Defence was built), he first joined the GWR as a boy, becoming cleaner at Tenby Railway station. At 18 he signed up with the RN in 1910 for a 12 year engagement. He joined HMS Defence in September 1913 and was promoted to leading seaman 1st October 1915. Just prior to the battle he visited his parents at Tynemouth, (where they had moved to be with his sister), and his little niece remembered him tossing her up in the air and catching her. It came a huge shock when they heard of his death so shortly afterwards. The family have never forgotten him, and have kept all the memorabilia connected with him very carefully. Incidentally his brother William was also in the RN at the same time, and was also involved in the battle, being on board HMS Collingwood at the time.
In Johnny’s last letter, he wrote ‘ I suppose you worry where I am all the time but there is no need to worry. I am quite safe. ‘ What a tragedy that he and his other ship mates were all lost in this tragic battle. We have long wanted to know of the details of the loss of HMS Defence and your wonderful programme has explained it all so clearly. Thank you so much.
Christ Drach I wish you'd been my GCSE history teacher. We covered all this in great detail but I've had no idea what actually happened until now... A gold star for you sir. Thanks.
If I were the New Zealand’s paymaster, I’d save face by declaring that I’d gone up on deck and lost my trousers intentionally, then fashioned a second Maori piu-piu skirt out of whatever I could find. With British battlecruisers exploding left and right, who’d not want double the luck?
Drach, as an informal (but informed) student of military naval history, I have to say that your comprehensive analysis of the Battle of Jutland is the finest that I have ever encountered. Great job! I can hardly wait for Part 3!
how is it possible that so many destroyer squadrons encountered the German fleet and so many men were in command at various times, yet absolutely none of them actually report anything?
between Beatty's incompetence in command, the loss of so many ships to magazine explosions due in no small part to failures in gunnery practices, all the destroyers forgetting that radio exists throughout the night, and the lack of initiative on the part of the grand fleet in the morning, the after action reports must have been fucking horrendous for anyone higher ranked than able seaman.
You’d see this 23 years and 49 weeks later except not by the British navy but by the French army
It's 2 in the morning, you've been in battle for over 10 hours, and your ship is shot to pieces, possibly with body parts all over the deck.
Do you really want to ask your superiors if you should make another attack?
@@Yora21 British destroyer captains would.
@@georgea.567 I think DD captains in general would, if Commander Evans is anything to go by.
I have new found respect for Admiral Scheer thanks to this.
He was a very cunning and perceptive fellow who correctly anticipated what Jellico would do and so did something different that was riskier, but saved his fleet thanks to British incompetence at passing messages.
@@gamebook727 Scheer tried to get away from the grand fleet by turning east but then he ran straight into them again..... then did the same when he turned west? He was lucky to get away tbh i bet he thought he was surrounded
Yeah, he deserves to have a cool ship named after him or something.
@@paprizio1073The second Deutschland Class Armoured ship "Admiral Scheer" was named 1932 in his honour.
SMS Wiesbaden: ...who wants some!? Come one, get some! I've quite a few torpedoes left.
British: You're about to sink.
Wiesbaden: T'is but a flesh wound.
Imagine being in a light cruiser and thinking that HMS Agincourt was coming at ya.
Best episode by far. Your audio is very clear, you’re very well prepared (as you usually are), and you explain a very complex battle in an understandable manner.
Great job and great video! Very engaging.
I always suspected that Scheers re-engagement was an accident, that he simply thought there wouldn't be any more ships there. Every documentary I've seen so far has left this point rather ambiguous.
Glad to see I was somewhat right.
When you’re earlier than the pinned comment for Q&A
I was so early, I arrived yesterday and had to wait.
Lol
I was here before the battle occured
@@sillypuppy5940 Timelord!
Bravo
The Book "the rule of the game" is a very good and pointy ( if not hard to read due to it's amount of details ) about jutland.
read it, good book but I feel at times he goes on too much to make a point
Probably one of the most innovative of the histories of Jutland although focused on Beatty.
There's also John Campbell's Jutland: An analysis of the fighting. All of the details.
jokes asside, it was one of your best projects so far, thank you very much
From 9:00 onwards, that run down of the Royal navy order of battle, makes my hair stand on end and sends shiver up my spine in awe of such a fleet. In need to take minute...
*is 10pm on a school night and sees that Jutland Pt. 2 has come out.* **HEAVY BREATHING**
The British must have alot of detonation flags lying around after this match.
Oooof . To soon!
Congratulations!
I've read many accounts of this unique battle, both in print, online and in graphical reconstruction. But this one is by far the easiest to follow in detail - the easiest to understand because it manages to balance a large-scale perspective in its narration and diagrams, against a command of detail that is always purposeful. So detail always contributes to the larger picture. And the graphical presentation of the battle is excellent.
The escape of the High seas fleet was Scheer luck.... (I'll get my coat)
You mean your dreadnought, or are you asking to be painted?
*Rides off in a Japanese torpedo boat*
I very much enjoy your work @Drachinifel and thank you for covering one of the most interesting sea battles of history! Did you get a chance to study Sir Julian Corbett's account in the official history? Well worth a read and Corbett took the (then unpopular) view of condemning Beatty's actions (mostly through impartial statement of fact haha!) The official history itself is fascinating as being amongst the last works of Corbett before his passing; and it wasn't finished!
Beatty was First Sea Lord after the war, and was able to 'doctor' accounts of the battle to show him in a favourable light.
British cruiser sends distress radio message: We are sinking.
German radio officer: Sinking about what?
I am genuinely surprised that Jellicoe did not have Beatty brought up for court martial on charges of gross insubordination for deliberately refusing to acknowledge the messages of a superior officer regarding the position of the High Seas Fleet. True, numerous commanders of smaller ships and flotillas also failed to report their contacts during the night engagement and should have been held accountable, but this can be at least moderated by the confusion inherent in a night action. Beatty has no such defense; he had the Germans right there in front of him, his superior mere minutes away with the Grand Fleet, with positional information regarding the High Seas Fleet at its most precious, and yet this arrogant inept windbag who had already sent two of his battlecruisers to the bottom by his negligent ship handling doctrine simply chose to say nothing at all, very nearly resulting in the greatest disaster in Royal Navy history. Had I been in Jellicoe's position, upon return I would have chartered the fastest railway engine available to take me direct to Rosyth just so I could put the service revolver to Beatty's head myself.
Excellent. Really brings out just how good an admiral Jellicoe was. The right man, with the right gear, at the right time, let down by the worng man from acheieving the second Trafalgar demanded by the press. Its interesting to speculate on what might have been the difference if the HSF had been as beaten as they could have been. The Somme would certainly still happen, but perhaps not Paaschendael.
warspite didn't have problems with its rudder. It was a time traveler doing the naval equal of a burn out to style on the enemy. Sheer was right to be insulted.
(Que video of Warspite blasting “Deja Vu” from Bose speakers on the bridge wings.)
Higher on the beat and I know it’s my time to not explode, lol
Jack Cornwell VC of HMS Chester, at age 16 was the youngest recipient of the Victoria Cross in WW1 & the second youngest ever.
21:54 so that's how beaty got his position, it all makes sense now
Can't stop watching this series. What a quality production.
Comming back to it from time to time. It s GREAT
I appreciate the inclusion of markers to denote which formation is it since in last video I had trouble telling German from British warships even though they were tehnically painted differently. But the markers could still use some work since in a lot of photos they aren't properly legible. Maybe photoshop them in afterwards. Also marking specifically where the specific ship we are talking about in line would be nice.
I said "Oh fuck you, Beatty" at the mention of him trying to cut to the front of the line 🤣 Great video!!
Fantastic! Thank you. So in oversimplified summary:
The German fleet was incredibly lucky, or unlucky depending on your point of view.
Jellicoe did a remarkably good job given the spectacular incompetence of all his senior officers, many of his junior officers, and the admiralty...
...indeed if I were Jellicoe I might have reserved a bullet for Beatty's incompetence bordering on treason and as a warning to others.
Just when I was looking for something interesting to watch, 'Uncle' Drac uploads part 2
*rubs hands together in glee*
Fantastic work Drach! Thanks for making this 3 part series.
"Having failed to become the first warship to shoot down another planet"....your delivery of these belters is second to none drach....👍.
Commander Loftus William Jones VC (posthumous) of HMS Shark and Commander Ernest Edwin Evans U.S. Medal of Honor (posthumous) of USS Johnston, two ferocious destroyer skippers and kindred spirits. RIP.
Hey Tin boat skippers were required to be somewhat crazy. It takes a special kind of courage to command a ship that barely weighed more than one of the main turrets on the ships they were attacking
Does the section of cruiser amour that fell on the deck of the UK destroyer still exist as a “war” prize?
The best birthday present I've received , thank you Drachinifel
My grandfather fought in this battle as a member of a gun crew onboard his dreadnought. He survived this battle and I am here today . God bless my grandfather Chris who I am named after .
1 man with 1 minute to determine the fate of the entire British Empire.
That was powerful
This is beautiful. The single best doco on Jutland ever
The tragedy of Jutland for both the Royal Navy and the war effort is the utter incompetence of Beatty, compounded by his being “one of us”, as in a member of the upper class, whereas Jellico was “Middle Class” and not one of Churchill’s favourites. Beatty should never have been promoted after this, but, “friends in high places” ... To that I must add the sheer lack of initiative among many of the officers who failed, multiple times, to report movements of enemy ships, engagements or anything else. Ironically some of those responsible for this failure would repeat this while in more senior roles in WW2.
Beatty was a man who completely over estimated his ability. However he had the protection of his uppercrust mates. Jellicoe was the lower class scapegoat.
Your finest effort Sir; I love the cutaways to actual crew transcriptions and so forth!
22:00 Sheer did not win the commander post by winning from the cereal packet, but Betty certainly seem like he did!
The more I read and watch about this battle (beyond 'History channel' levels of quality) the more I am convinced that the HSF avoided a massive disaster and possibly a 2nd day of battle (which would have amounted to the same thing) by the very thinnest of margins and chance. Its no wonder they never sortied again. Imagine if Jellicoe had gotten some hard intel and headed for Horns reef in time for sunrise?
The dislikers are from Beatty’s Signal staff.
They weren't actually trying to dislike, they just got the shapes upside down.
Beatty: *laughs at the comment*
Signal officer: since when did we dislike a video about Jutland
Signal staff: *shrug their shoulders*
Not sure if anyone else felt the same way, but 8:30-8:38 (Especially, 8:37) is arguably the most impactful moment in this entire video (i.e. it's the part that I remember most of all). And @Drachinifel nailed the moment perfectly with his narration
The more I hear about HMS New Zealand the more I think she belongs in Battlefleet Gothic rather than the Grand Fleet.
All of yes
Thank you! I have been looking forward to this. I have read Jutland by Captain Donald Macintyre years ago, I enjoyed his book and love these videos.
The part I like most about the German retreat is that Seydlitz only managed to reach the harbor because, after reaching the relative safety of the horn reefs, she actually came to a halt and started steaming in reverse. This was done because the damage to her bow section was so large that driving forwards actually accelerated her flooding.
Excellent one! Very educational! I would love to see an updated version of your take on Enterprise CV-6. Your videos are packed with incredible detail.
*German High Seas Fleet sails past*
Jellicoe: You wanna tell me about that?
Royal Navy destroyer commanders: No, I don't think I will
The Destroyers for the most part had the excuse that they were being jammed, most of them tried. The Battleships were in formation, they could flash it if they had to (but they didn't). And that's assuming that it would have reached Jellico. One radio message from the end of the day action took 15 minutes to get from the radio room to the bridge. And his staff wouldn't wake him up when the Admiralty radioed him later that night. The deployment was great. But there is argument he should have already have been in single line (he KNEW the enemy was out there, and the next morning, he pulled back into line at daybreak rather than waiting for contact). He won a battle, but most people felt it could have been much more.
Thank you so much, Drach! Narrated with so mjch humour, explained in such a clear manner and with great visualization.
YUSSSSS!!! I literally just
told my boss I'll be late to work today to watch this.
The combination of yourself amd the German gentleman is fantastic!!!... Better than ANYTHING the bbc has put out in decades!..
Thank you Drach, for turning a 72 yr old man into the equivalent of a Marvel Movie fanboy as I wait for the next video ( on actually any subject but..) on Jutland.
You could be like me and think of the amount of coal moved by the stokers.
They kept going for quite some while.
Such a crazy stoy and so much info!
Thank you Drach you make my days better.
It would be cool to see a video on the Moltke class Seydlitz . I saw a book years ago that detail the damage done to it and the close encounters it had with the British fleet and yet made it back to port . If I remember it right it was the most damaged ship to make it back home till WW2 and the USS Franklin .
Great documentary, chapeau bas! Never would have though I will be so much into maritime stories, but your channel is a quality content.
I'm a big fan of how your using models to show the positions, it makes things far more clear than it was in your Battle of Texel video. Out of curiosity will this be an ongoing thing for your battle breakdown specials or will it only be for the big special ones like this?
Depends on the scale of the battle and what models are available.
@@Drachinifel I'm really enjoying this series, so a big thanks. Little bit of feedback: if I didn't already know the basic flow of the battle, neither the maps or the models would help me much. I like the idea, but both flash by too quickly for me to work out what they mean (I know I could pause, but you're usually saying something interesting at the time and I don't want to lose the thread of that). With the maps, I'm still trying to work out who is red and who is blue, what a dotted line means, and what the solid areas mean. With the models, I've only just realized that the German flag is very similar to the white ensign (at least on a small screen with the "help" of YT compression), I still can't see at a glance which way the ships are travelling, and I'm not sure which way is North or if that's consistent from image to image. No way can I tell the difference between the British battlecruiser squadron and the squadron of QE's, so the images of those two plus Hipper plus light forces just look like a jumble to me.
Maybe just talk to the map or model that's on screen for the first few times we see them? But it might just be my slow visual processing, and none of this prevents me from enjoying these excellent videos :)