I think that the difference between those terms is very much related to the cultural perception. In Japan and several similar countries, it is almost unthinkable to change sex, and on the contrary, the culture of masculinity is not so strictly defined. Especially after WWII classical masculinity as in, 'readiness to endure hardships and general 'buff-ness' was greatly discouraged by the occupiers, and despite random spikes in popularity of sports and local mafia, to this day rather died out very quickly. *Both* gender roles shifted towards what was femininity a century ago. And the human nature leads them towards the path of least resistance. Therefore, japanese crossdressers have no reason to declare themselves trans or even to think about that. For example Hizaki openly states in his interview that he's a gay man. From a westerners perspective he would be a perfect trans candidate (see Blanchard et al.), however he is not trans unless *he himself declares this*. And this probably will not come anytime soon. Despite he said a similar thing to what transes say - he said "I want to be reborn as a woman". This is a very strong indicator, but I'm no one to diagnose him. Meanwhile, even in our (exSoviet) culture, the gender roles are not only more clearly defined, but *both* shifted towards what was masculinity just a century ago. We didn't have young acolyte monks culture or something like that (and in either case Orthodox authorities would not state it obviously duh) I myself sometimes think who am I, mostly because I like women, and therefore, I doubt myself and think maybe I'm just this instead of being a trans. Especially since there is no real way to change a sex here. Anyways, both options limit personal life. I would like to become a normal person from a practical point of view, despite this would be a loss of very important part of personality for me. But in this question for me personally I'm leaning towards woman's side more and more because I feel significantly better presenting as a woman in the Internets and like yuri more than straights. Sorry for personal ramblings. You're doing a great job showcasing a difference in Asian and Euro-American culture. Your channel is great.
I don't mind the personal ramble, especially one with some much thought put it, my rants are basically all that too. __(:3」∠)__ You bring up a really great point on how the gender roles of masculinity are more vague and enabled more feminine expressions for the Japanese. I've seen such when we compare even just body types in most Japanese games where men are usually slim and clean like men in Genshin Impact but in like America men are always shown as larger, hairy, and muscular; Genshin Impact is full of effeminate men by our standards. As for your point on the crossdressers not having to declare themselves trans, I can agree with that too, rather I think the author of Senpai is an Otokonoko despite all the progressive ideas and probably unintentional depictions of trans thoughts, is just fine with the status quo that lets them be accepted as crossdressers without having to ask for more, so they don't try to show a character that ask for more, to be seen as women, but is fine with being accepted as a man that crossdresses. Wasn't even until recently last year the Japanese courts stopped requiring sterilization to be considered trans, they have a long way to go to make the process not difficult to consider compared to that path of least resistance of just being a crossdresser instead. Despite my views, on principle unless a character or person self-identifies, I can't call them trans, doing such would be reductionist and the very thing transphobes do toward us by looking for signs to clock. So the author holds the power to Makoto in the story, and I don't think it'll go the trans direction with the current setup, instead it's firmly in the status quo of a crossdresser, which is fine, but could've been so much more it's a missed opportunity is all.
Ngl, this kinda gets it close I'm surprised it flew by my head, since otokonoko don't have to present feminine all the time, same for a femboy. I guess the main thing will be the cultural associations we attribute to those words, since my idea of a otokonoko are shaped from Japan while views of femboy are weird from too many memes. The kind of connotation they hold will be up to the audience and cultural perspective they want brought upon when using either label, a more western lens or eastern lens, kind of way maybe.
At first, I wanted to be all "RAWR", but after watching, I appreciate your video. Senpai is an Otokonoko is a hard watch for me, it is painful to see the same thoughts and actions on screen that I have gone through. There are so many parallels to my own trans experience that it is very hard for me to not see Makoto as trans. Most of that is probably because it is easy to self-insert myself into Makoto's character. This being media, there is more freedom to assign a character as trans. An IRL person, definitely not. If they say they are trans, then they are trans. If they are a femboy, then they are a femboy. *handwaving about all that societal expectation and whatever* The thought of hearing somebody (not you) adamantly holding to "Makoto IS NOT TRANS" feels harmful. Just the same as declaring "Makoto IS trans" would be. Thankfully this is media, so we can take our own conclusions and our own interpretations of the story without causing harm to anybody else. My initial reaction to the thumbnail was "RAWR" because I was feeling denied my experiences, which isn't what your video was about, it was just an emotion that bubbled up at the moment. It just got me thinking a little about how so much of my experience in life is just being told I wasn't something, I couldn't be something, I can't like something, etc. So I ended up subconsciously suppressing that I was trans for decades. Personally, Makoto reads as trans based on my experience in ways that a character like Ferris doesn't, which is probably because this anime centres around Makoto's identity, but ReZero doesn't centre around Ferris *shrug*. There was also the bit where Makoto's father found a high school that he could go to as the gender he chooses. Of course that could also be cultural differences as well, but that was just one more thing that pushes me more towards Makoto being trans. Being in the western world, our cultures are so different, which would mean the trans experiences would be different, it would manifest different compared to here. The language we use for ourselves and everything. But being told you can't have the pink cute thing because boys don't want those, those specific scenes cut deep into my soul. I don't really know what I'm saying with all this, I've just been trying to figure out underlying feelings that some media brings up - like Zero 2 and Birdy Altera really striking at something really deep that I can't explain. I guess you could say I'm on a journey. --- ok, that is enough of my rambling (which was mostly about Makoto and not about the word Otokonoko)
Don't worry about rambling, rather, my entier video was just me rambling, and all started because of Makoto which afterward led into the discourse of Otokonoko. That said, I get what you're saying, rather, I FEEL what you're saying, especially after episode 3 of Senapi is an Otokonoko, that hit me like an isekai truck. We all have to freedom to take from the show what values we want and the feelings they evoke in us, I wouldn't deny anyone else experience having watched that episode especially if they felt it relates to their trans experience as did mine. I'll still nonetheless consider otokonoko on the fine print, but my heart knows how I'm headcanon the current Makoto, especially after he answered "do you want to be a girl" with "I don't know", like, people don't normally have to question that, that's sooooooo egg behavior, but on the title it still says Otokonoko so I feel I'm inevitably gonna be disappointed in the future development of the canon, but gosh does that anime give the feels.
@@lilahliliumlily9883 Ooooooooooo Episode 3 hit me like Truck-kun as well. I'm really looking forward to Friday to see the next episode. Because gender is a societal construct, we all are going to come at it from different angles. I'll definitely be happy either way the story unfolds, if Makoto remains eggy or decides they are still a boy, based on what he defines for himself - I'm here for the story, however it unfolds. It makes me happy to see media telling stories about gender.
Since the word brought up, I'll use it a bit liberally to present my idea, hope don't mind. Had I best try to explain how I see the difference, think of trap as a state of being while otokonoko a status. What I mean by that, once an otokonoko, only that for as long as decide to be, but only a trap as long as presenting femininely. They have overlap, so not multraly exclusive, but there are points where they don't line up. For example, I used Makoto from Senpai is an Otokonoko in the video, I'll use him again here, Makoto is an Otokonoko even at home when not crossdressing, but isn't a trap since he's not presenting femininely while at home and looks like a normal boy. Hope that gives an idea how I see it.
We're talking about a character, not a person. The author can show the character being dysphoric and have them wish they were a woman, but walk back and make them say that they're a man. This happens a lot in media because far too many cis authors either don't know or understand trans folks or hate them, but still want to profit from our struggles, using us for jokes, for shock value, or for pity.
And no, a character doesn't need to say that they're trans for the interpretation that they're trans be valid. You just assume they're cis because that's the norm, not because it makes sense in context. You would rather take things at face value than interpret them.
The reality is that there's isn't a clear cut difference between otoko no ko and trans women. Many porn actresses use the label as marketing, and many folks who used to identify as otoko no ko end up transitioning later in life. Like, I used to identify as a femboy and now I'm nonbinary. It happens all the time all around the world.
What you're basically saying isn't different from saying that most yuri characters aren't lesbians because they don't call themselves lesbians. That's absurd and ignorant at best, and outright bigoted at worst.
I think that the difference between those terms is very much related to the cultural perception. In Japan and several similar countries, it is almost unthinkable to change sex, and on the contrary, the culture of masculinity is not so strictly defined. Especially after WWII classical masculinity as in, 'readiness to endure hardships and general 'buff-ness' was greatly discouraged by the occupiers, and despite random spikes in popularity of sports and local mafia, to this day rather died out very quickly.
*Both* gender roles shifted towards what was femininity a century ago.
And the human nature leads them towards the path of least resistance. Therefore, japanese crossdressers have no reason to declare themselves trans or even to think about that. For example Hizaki openly states in his interview that he's a gay man. From a westerners perspective he would be a perfect trans candidate (see Blanchard et al.), however he is not trans unless *he himself declares this*. And this probably will not come anytime soon. Despite he said a similar thing to what transes say - he said "I want to be reborn as a woman". This is a very strong indicator, but I'm no one to diagnose him.
Meanwhile, even in our (exSoviet) culture, the gender roles are not only more clearly defined, but *both* shifted towards what was masculinity just a century ago. We didn't have young acolyte monks culture or something like that (and in either case Orthodox authorities would not state it obviously duh)
I myself sometimes think who am I, mostly because I like women, and therefore, I doubt myself and think maybe I'm just this instead of being a trans. Especially since there is no real way to change a sex here. Anyways, both options limit personal life. I would like to become a normal person from a practical point of view, despite this would be a loss of very important part of personality for me. But in this question for me personally I'm leaning towards woman's side more and more because I feel significantly better presenting as a woman in the Internets and like yuri more than straights.
Sorry for personal ramblings.
You're doing a great job showcasing a difference in Asian and Euro-American culture.
Your channel is great.
I don't mind the personal ramble, especially one with some much thought put it, my rants are basically all that too. __(:3」∠)__
You bring up a really great point on how the gender roles of masculinity are more vague and enabled more feminine expressions for the Japanese. I've seen such when we compare even just body types in most Japanese games where men are usually slim and clean like men in Genshin Impact but in like America men are always shown as larger, hairy, and muscular; Genshin Impact is full of effeminate men by our standards.
As for your point on the crossdressers not having to declare themselves trans, I can agree with that too, rather I think the author of Senpai is an Otokonoko despite all the progressive ideas and probably unintentional depictions of trans thoughts, is just fine with the status quo that lets them be accepted as crossdressers without having to ask for more, so they don't try to show a character that ask for more, to be seen as women, but is fine with being accepted as a man that crossdresses. Wasn't even until recently last year the Japanese courts stopped requiring sterilization to be considered trans, they have a long way to go to make the process not difficult to consider compared to that path of least resistance of just being a crossdresser instead.
Despite my views, on principle unless a character or person self-identifies, I can't call them trans, doing such would be reductionist and the very thing transphobes do toward us by looking for signs to clock. So the author holds the power to Makoto in the story, and I don't think it'll go the trans direction with the current setup, instead it's firmly in the status quo of a crossdresser, which is fine, but could've been so much more it's a missed opportunity is all.
I've been having fun with the anime even if the discussion around it has turned kind of toxic in some corners of the internet.
I think the closest translation we got for otokonoko is femboy, feminine+boy. It's still a boy, but with more feminine.
Ngl, this kinda gets it close I'm surprised it flew by my head, since otokonoko don't have to present feminine all the time, same for a femboy. I guess the main thing will be the cultural associations we attribute to those words, since my idea of a otokonoko are shaped from Japan while views of femboy are weird from too many memes. The kind of connotation they hold will be up to the audience and cultural perspective they want brought upon when using either label, a more western lens or eastern lens, kind of way maybe.
At first, I wanted to be all "RAWR", but after watching, I appreciate your video. Senpai is an Otokonoko is a hard watch for me, it is painful to see the same thoughts and actions on screen that I have gone through. There are so many parallels to my own trans experience that it is very hard for me to not see Makoto as trans. Most of that is probably because it is easy to self-insert myself into Makoto's character. This being media, there is more freedom to assign a character as trans. An IRL person, definitely not. If they say they are trans, then they are trans. If they are a femboy, then they are a femboy. *handwaving about all that societal expectation and whatever* The thought of hearing somebody (not you) adamantly holding to "Makoto IS NOT TRANS" feels harmful. Just the same as declaring "Makoto IS trans" would be. Thankfully this is media, so we can take our own conclusions and our own interpretations of the story without causing harm to anybody else. My initial reaction to the thumbnail was "RAWR" because I was feeling denied my experiences, which isn't what your video was about, it was just an emotion that bubbled up at the moment. It just got me thinking a little about how so much of my experience in life is just being told I wasn't something, I couldn't be something, I can't like something, etc. So I ended up subconsciously suppressing that I was trans for decades. Personally, Makoto reads as trans based on my experience in ways that a character like Ferris doesn't, which is probably because this anime centres around Makoto's identity, but ReZero doesn't centre around Ferris *shrug*. There was also the bit where Makoto's father found a high school that he could go to as the gender he chooses. Of course that could also be cultural differences as well, but that was just one more thing that pushes me more towards Makoto being trans. Being in the western world, our cultures are so different, which would mean the trans experiences would be different, it would manifest different compared to here. The language we use for ourselves and everything. But being told you can't have the pink cute thing because boys don't want those, those specific scenes cut deep into my soul. I don't really know what I'm saying with all this, I've just been trying to figure out underlying feelings that some media brings up - like Zero 2 and Birdy Altera really striking at something really deep that I can't explain. I guess you could say I'm on a journey. --- ok, that is enough of my rambling (which was mostly about Makoto and not about the word Otokonoko)
Don't worry about rambling, rather, my entier video was just me rambling, and all started because of Makoto which afterward led into the discourse of Otokonoko. That said, I get what you're saying, rather, I FEEL what you're saying, especially after episode 3 of Senapi is an Otokonoko, that hit me like an isekai truck. We all have to freedom to take from the show what values we want and the feelings they evoke in us, I wouldn't deny anyone else experience having watched that episode especially if they felt it relates to their trans experience as did mine. I'll still nonetheless consider otokonoko on the fine print, but my heart knows how I'm headcanon the current Makoto, especially after he answered "do you want to be a girl" with "I don't know", like, people don't normally have to question that, that's sooooooo egg behavior, but on the title it still says Otokonoko so I feel I'm inevitably gonna be disappointed in the future development of the canon, but gosh does that anime give the feels.
@@lilahliliumlily9883 Ooooooooooo Episode 3 hit me like Truck-kun as well. I'm really looking forward to Friday to see the next episode. Because gender is a societal construct, we all are going to come at it from different angles. I'll definitely be happy either way the story unfolds, if Makoto remains eggy or decides they are still a boy, based on what he defines for himself - I'm here for the story, however it unfolds. It makes me happy to see media telling stories about gender.
What is the difference between trap and otokonoko? Im not talking about the slur but the slang used by anime fans outside of japan Just curious
Since the word brought up, I'll use it a bit liberally to present my idea, hope don't mind. Had I best try to explain how I see the difference, think of trap as a state of being while otokonoko a status. What I mean by that, once an otokonoko, only that for as long as decide to be, but only a trap as long as presenting femininely. They have overlap, so not multraly exclusive, but there are points where they don't line up. For example, I used Makoto from Senpai is an Otokonoko in the video, I'll use him again here, Makoto is an Otokonoko even at home when not crossdressing, but isn't a trap since he's not presenting femininely while at home and looks like a normal boy. Hope that gives an idea how I see it.
We're talking about a character, not a person. The author can show the character being dysphoric and have them wish they were a woman, but walk back and make them say that they're a man.
This happens a lot in media because far too many cis authors either don't know or understand trans folks or hate them, but still want to profit from our struggles, using us for jokes, for shock value, or for pity.
And no, a character doesn't need to say that they're trans for the interpretation that they're trans be valid.
You just assume they're cis because that's the norm, not because it makes sense in context. You would rather take things at face value than interpret them.
The reality is that there's isn't a clear cut difference between otoko no ko and trans women.
Many porn actresses use the label as marketing, and many folks who used to identify as otoko no ko end up transitioning later in life.
Like, I used to identify as a femboy and now I'm nonbinary. It happens all the time all around the world.
What you're basically saying isn't different from saying that most yuri characters aren't lesbians because they don't call themselves lesbians.
That's absurd and ignorant at best, and outright bigoted at worst.