I am sorry to hear that Frank has passed away a couple of years ago. May he rest in peace. His channel has continued to be a valuable contribution to the diy community
Fantastic video I like your charge and discharge board the best I've ever seen. What I really liked was at the end the green screen and you go on across the bridge may the force be with you..
Hi Frank, Just curious. Why can you not discharge the batteries into capacitors and use the discharge energy to charge new batteries cutting down the energy requirements? I don't see anyone doing this, but it doesn't seem hard. I'm assuming that because nobody does it, that it is somewhat problematic.
I really would love to see 18650 discharge into capacitors for use of power else where! This will be something I will be adding to my bored. Self learning is key... so it's time to figure out how capacitors work and how to store power in them safely without burning down a house/shed. What kind of capacitors should I look into first? Of course super capacitors, correct?
I appreciate what you are doing and that you made this video. I just ran some numbers though. In order to recreate what you made it would cost $206.21 using the items in the links you provided. That DOES NOT include a power supply, wood, mosfets or wire. That would allow you to discharge up to 12 cells at a time. Now, compare that to the Lii-500 which is $20 shipped on ebay. You could purchase 20 Lii-500's instead and discharge 80 cells at a time! You wouldnt have to waste any time building a test bench or waiting on parts. I am so glad you shared this but did you think of that before you started? Seems like a no brainer. 12 cells at a time vs 80 cells at a time...
James Klafehn well in a place like Kenya where import taxes are high about 46% this route is cheaper. the customs guys see any electronic device and assume its expensive so they wanna hit you with exorbitant valuation.... i am currently assembling a rig with 50 dischargers ( ZB2L3) plus 50W resistors plus cell holders and 162 chargers (TP4056) plus cell holders and 10 computer PSUs . approx total cost ... 390 to 400 USD.
hi Frank Brand nicely done .I have a question how many Buck Converter did u use , i cant see all the connections in the back Do u have a small schematic on how to make all the connections ? Thanks
Thanks for your comment. I have really fallen short when it come to drawing schematics for all the stuff I build. My bad. I will need to go an look at the board again to see how many bucks I used.
This is great Frank, I really wanted to see that underside. I have 3 questions. 1.Are you using the buck converters because your source is 12 volt and you needed 5 volt? I am using a salvaged PC Power Supply and plan to use its 5 volt rail for TP4056 and Dischargers. I am hoping that will alleviate the need for the buck converters. Do you agree? 2.On the dischargers, for power source soldering: (as seen when looking at underside of board, USB at bottom) For the positive, I found a solder pad just above the USB mount. For the negative I found a pad on bottom edge, next to lower left board mount hole. OK to use those? 3. My dischargers came with resistor pairs marked "5W 7.5 ohm J". With one installed I get .5 amp discharge rate. I want to discharge at 1 amp. I tried connecting two in parallel, but that only gave me a .850 discharge rate. I guess i don't understand the true physics or math of how that works. I am an admitted noob in the area. Any guidance on that?
I just watched the video again, and you ARE already using the 5 volt rail. The Buck converters are because the buss is so long and powering so many TP0456's?
So what power supply did you use? A 500w computer PSU? How did you wire that up? I saw the 2x5V and 1x12V connectors, but don't you have to trick the PSU into turning on if it's not plugged into a motherboard? Love this setup and want to make something similar, but every video I see doesn't explain their actual power supply. More info on that would be very appreciated!!
My bad!!! Yes I just used a 500 Watt computer power supply.I just followed a video on TH-cam that showed how to wire it to work with out being connected to a motherboard. It has worked great.
After watching more videos about charging and balancing, I believe cells connected in parallel do not need balance control as all receive same voltage. Balance control is used when cells are connected in series.
I started one myself. using a 4 bay charger sucks. I have 15 to 4056, and a computer power supply. I just need a few more components . its taken a week to do 1/10 of the cells I have. the tester charger I have will charge only at 1a. but test charge at .5 a. so nearing 3 ah cells. takes for ever with a 1/2 amp charge discharge. my cells come out to 2800 mah average.
James, That's awesome that you are working on a project. What are you processing cells for, powerwall? Oh yes you need to bump your discharging up to 1 amp. I had to order these resistors goo.gl/qXmVRA because my discharge boards came with .5 amp resistors. 2800 mAh cells are great. Let me know if you have any questions. Frank
Frank Brand I finally got in some parts for my board. I had the chargers. now I got in one of the dischargers. the rest should be here next week. along with the cell holders. charging and testing 4 at a time. is taking forever. over two weeks non stop! I can't wait to get this board going. then I can get 15 pee go. plus the 4 in the charger. I don't want to buy more until I can at least see the end of these. I'm not even 1/3 through the 300 cells. I guess the MOSFET has less volt drop than a diode. is that why you used them? I'm working on a power wall. or a trunk/ box , cabinet. what ever. I'm building a box to put them in and its going to be on the floor. so I can't call it a power wall. I been trying to watch where the parts come from. if you order from the wrong seller. it can take over a month to get delivered from amazon. I been thinking . maybe there is a way to use the power from a discharging batt to charge another? I know there will be losses. I haven't experimented any. I'm looking to see if anyone else is doing anything like that. any way. you seem to have a great channel. my charge controller also came. its a 30a tracer A epEver. I also plan on building a small water wheel generator. to help power my house. along with the solar. thanks...
I probably don't know what I'm talking about, but here goes. I'm going to assume the charge controller you just got is a solar charge controller. For your discharging batteries, if they were wired in parallel and the batteries are 3.7v that would give the same voltage of a solar panel. Hook up the discharging positive and negative leads to the solar charge controller solar inputs. Don't forget you will need 4 batteries in parallel as the battery pack that are somewhat low in voltage. Would the batteries you are discharging then charge the other battery pack with some loss due to the charge controller? Don't forget you will need something to limit the amount that is taken from the discharging batteries. How fast would they discharge? That is interesting....
James, The only charge controllers I'm using on this board are "1A 5V Micro USB TP4056 Lithium Battery Power Charger Board Module TE585" (amzn.to/2CnS6fu). These were designed to charge single cells, but they could be uses on multiple (parallel) cells, but with the output of only 1amp it would take a long time to charge all the cells. I think you might be referring to the "Diymore 18650 Li-ion Lithium Lead-acid Battery Capacity Meter Discharge Tester" amzn.to/2GPkNQP. This device was designed specificly for battery capacity testing via discharge.
I like the idea of it but I agree with a large charging board but something like the liitokala lii-500 is like 20 bucks so I don't think I could justify all that for the discharging so even the opus is like $35
Hi Frank, cool Video! I'm building a much smaller board 6S for my Imax B6. I am wondering how you set up your discharge module. 2.9V ? 3V? 3.1V ? I even read that some guys are discharging up to 2.5V to test the capacity. I am confused... Let me know! Charles
Frank Brand thank you so much for your reply! Just bought a Opus 3100 as well. Haven't tried it yet but I believe it's 3V as well. Also, too bad that a balance charger type B6 can't test 6 capacities at once... that would be so nice! Also bought by mistake 2 discharging modules like yours so I can now test 1(b6) + 2 (modules) + 4 (Opus) = 7 at the same time! I also heard to more accurate to get a constant 1 amp discharge rather than a falling discharge amp that stops at 0.1A... What's your thoughts on that? Best, Charles
I'm surprised someone hasn't made their own charger discharger . like the store bought ones for like 20 cells. and or sell it in diy kit form. I guess the controlled of something like that is a bit complex. and easier to just buy a few chargers. or do it like you are. being small and good looking don't make it work better.
James, Thanks for watching. When I first got started I built a crude charge board that could charge about 9 cells at a time. All my discharges were done on my iMax B6 mini, it took forever. I was processing about 3 cell a day. With my charge/discharge board I could process about 30+ cells a day. So that really cut my processing time down a ton. So worth it to me. As for being OCD, well I just love spending the time making things look good. :-) Frank
You might remember me from other comments but I am adding a battery pack to extend the range of my EV. I was going to go with LG MJ1 3500 mah cells for $3.80 each but I just found a deal on used Samsung 26f cells for only $1 each! So now I am scrambling to find a fast testing solution. I need 3700 cells tested. 60 cells a day will take me 62 days!
I am sorry to hear that Frank has passed away a couple of years ago. May he rest in peace. His channel has continued to be a valuable contribution to the diy community
Wow . that is some amazing works. I will be taking example from your project . thanks for sharing :)
Did I miss the description of your power supply output voltage and amps? You spoke of buck converters/ step down units to get to 5v.
I must have missed it, I will go back and see if I can fix it.
Fantastic video I like your charge and discharge board the best I've ever seen. What I really liked was at the end the green screen and you go on across the bridge may the force be with you..
I'm glad that you noticed. I did that using "Stickers" in my Google Pixel 2 phone.
If you can use a boost converter for a load on the dischargers to charge the 18650 or do something useful not just make heat
Hi Frank, Just curious. Why can you not discharge the batteries into capacitors and use the discharge energy to charge new batteries cutting down the energy requirements? I don't see anyone doing this, but it doesn't seem hard. I'm assuming that because nobody does it, that it is somewhat problematic.
I have never played with capacitors before. I would need to do some research on how that would work.
I really would love to see 18650 discharge into capacitors for use of power else where!
This will be something I will be adding to my bored.
Self learning is key... so it's time to figure out how capacitors work and how to store power in them safely without burning down a house/shed.
What kind of capacitors should I look into first? Of course super capacitors, correct?
Great job!!! keep making videos like this.
cvicracer, Thanks for watching. Please let me know I there is something specific you would like to see. Frank
Thank you!!!
I appreciate what you are doing and that you made this video. I just ran some numbers though. In order to recreate what you made it would cost $206.21 using the items in the links you provided. That DOES NOT include a power supply, wood, mosfets or wire. That would allow you to discharge up to 12 cells at a time.
Now, compare that to the Lii-500 which is $20 shipped on ebay.
You could purchase 20 Lii-500's instead and discharge 80 cells at a time! You wouldnt have to waste any time building a test bench or waiting on parts. I am so glad you shared this but did you think of that before you started? Seems like a no brainer. 12 cells at a time vs 80 cells at a time...
Oops my math was wrong. For $200 you can buy 10 Lii-500's which would allow you to discharge 40 at a time. Not 80. Either way, 40 is more than 12.
James Klafehn well in a place like Kenya where import taxes are high about 46% this route is cheaper. the customs guys see any electronic device and assume its expensive so they wanna hit you with exorbitant valuation....
i am currently assembling a rig with 50 dischargers ( ZB2L3) plus 50W resistors plus cell holders and 162 chargers (TP4056) plus cell holders and 10 computer PSUs . approx total cost ... 390 to 400 USD.
James, good point. There were multiple reasons for building this charge-discharge board. One reason was to have the experience of doing the build. :-)
Anthony, That is awesome. Can you send me photo of your finished product? frank@thediyengineer.com
Lii-500 are beautiful. Got 2 myself thinking bout grabbing 2 more. This time I'll make sure and buy the ones with USA plugs. Cheers!
hi Frank Brand nicely done .I have a question how many Buck Converter did u use , i cant see all the connections in the back
Do u have a small schematic on how to make all the connections ?
Thanks
Thanks for your comment. I have really fallen short when it come to drawing schematics for all the stuff I build. My bad. I will need to go an look at the board again to see how many bucks I used.
good mister... iam from indonesia
That looks FABulous!
Thanks Ray!!!
Why did you choose the 5 what Aluminum resistance over the 25 what
This is great Frank, I really wanted to see that underside. I have 3 questions.
1.Are you using the buck converters because your source is 12 volt and you needed 5 volt? I am using a salvaged PC Power Supply and plan to use its 5 volt rail for TP4056 and Dischargers. I am hoping that will alleviate the need for the buck converters. Do you agree?
2.On the dischargers, for power source soldering: (as seen when looking at underside of board, USB at bottom) For the positive, I found a solder pad just above the USB mount. For the negative I found a pad on bottom edge, next to lower left board mount hole. OK to use those?
3. My dischargers came with resistor pairs marked "5W 7.5 ohm J". With one installed I get .5 amp discharge rate. I want to discharge at 1 amp. I tried connecting two in parallel, but that only gave me a .850 discharge rate. I guess i don't understand the true physics or math of how that works. I am an admitted noob in the area. Any guidance on that?
I just watched the video again, and you ARE already using the 5 volt rail. The Buck converters are because the buss is so long and powering so many TP0456's?
So I'm using one buck converter per every 4 TP4056 chargers. Thanks for watching. Frank
So what power supply did you use? A 500w computer PSU? How did you wire that up? I saw the 2x5V and 1x12V connectors, but don't you have to trick the PSU into turning on if it's not plugged into a motherboard? Love this setup and want to make something similar, but every video I see doesn't explain their actual power supply. More info on that would be very appreciated!!
My bad!!! Yes I just used a 500 Watt computer power supply.I just followed a video on TH-cam that showed how to wire it to work with out being connected to a motherboard. It has worked great.
interesting video. I have heard builders of cell chargers talk of balancer. Did this sort of mechanism get inserted here?
I did not include a balancer in my charge board.
After watching more videos about charging and balancing, I believe cells connected in parallel do not need balance control as all receive same voltage. Balance control is used when cells are connected in series.
Very good information, thanks 🙏
Your welcome. Thanks for watching.
I started one myself. using a 4 bay charger sucks. I have 15 to 4056, and a computer power supply. I just need a few more components . its taken a week to do 1/10 of the cells I have. the tester charger I have will charge only at 1a. but test charge at .5 a. so nearing 3 ah cells. takes for ever with a 1/2 amp charge discharge. my cells come out to 2800 mah average.
James, That's awesome that you are working on a project. What are you processing cells for, powerwall? Oh yes you need to bump your discharging up to 1 amp. I had to order these resistors goo.gl/qXmVRA because my discharge boards came with .5 amp resistors. 2800 mAh cells are great. Let me know if you have any questions. Frank
Frank Brand I finally got in some parts for my board. I had the chargers. now I got in one of the dischargers. the rest should be here next week. along with the cell holders. charging and testing 4 at a time. is taking forever. over two weeks non stop! I can't wait to get this board going. then I can get 15 pee go. plus the 4 in the charger. I don't want to buy more until I can at least see the end of these. I'm not even 1/3 through the 300 cells. I guess the MOSFET has less volt drop than a diode. is that why you used them? I'm working on a power wall. or a trunk/ box , cabinet. what ever. I'm building a box to put them in and its going to be on the floor. so I can't call it a power wall. I been trying to watch where the parts come from. if you order from the wrong seller. it can take over a month to get delivered from amazon. I been thinking . maybe there is a way to use the power from a discharging batt to charge another? I know there will be losses. I haven't experimented any. I'm looking to see if anyone else is doing anything like that. any way. you seem to have a great channel. my charge controller also came. its a 30a tracer A epEver. I also plan on building a small water wheel generator. to help power my house. along with the solar. thanks...
I probably don't know what I'm talking about, but here goes. I'm going to assume the charge controller you just got is a solar charge controller. For your discharging batteries, if they were wired in parallel and the batteries are 3.7v that would give the same voltage of a solar panel. Hook up the discharging positive and negative leads to the solar charge controller solar inputs. Don't forget you will need 4 batteries in parallel as the battery pack that are somewhat low in voltage. Would the batteries you are discharging then charge the other battery pack with some loss due to the charge controller? Don't forget you will need something to limit the amount that is taken from the discharging batteries. How fast would they discharge?
That is interesting....
James, The only charge controllers I'm using on this board are "1A 5V Micro USB TP4056 Lithium Battery Power Charger Board Module TE585" (amzn.to/2CnS6fu). These were designed to charge single cells, but they could be uses on multiple (parallel) cells, but with the output of only 1amp it would take a long time to charge all the cells. I think you might be referring to the "Diymore 18650 Li-ion Lithium Lead-acid Battery Capacity Meter Discharge Tester" amzn.to/2GPkNQP. This device was designed specificly for battery capacity testing via discharge.
I like the idea of it but I agree with a large charging board but something like the liitokala lii-500 is like 20 bucks so I don't think I could justify all that for the discharging so even the opus is like $35
Hi Frank,
cool Video!
I'm building a much smaller board 6S for my Imax B6.
I am wondering how you set up your discharge module.
2.9V ? 3V? 3.1V ? I even read that some guys are discharging up to 2.5V to test the capacity. I am confused... Let me know!
Charles
They are set to discharge to 3v. Some but not all 18650's can be discharged 2.7v but I think it is safer to not go below 3.0v.
Frank Brand thank you so much for your reply! Just bought a Opus 3100 as well. Haven't tried it yet but I believe it's 3V as well.
Also, too bad that a balance charger type B6 can't test 6 capacities at once... that would be so nice! Also bought by mistake 2 discharging modules like yours so I can now test 1(b6) + 2 (modules) + 4 (Opus) = 7 at the same time!
I also heard to more accurate to get a constant 1 amp discharge rather than a falling discharge amp that stops at 0.1A...
What's your thoughts on that?
Best,
Charles
Where do we get cheap new cells
Pro: Beautiful project, Contra: wasted heat, converting volts, and watt circuits loose energy
nice
Thank you.
I'm surprised someone hasn't made their own charger discharger . like the store bought ones for like 20 cells. and or sell it in diy kit form. I guess the controlled of something like that is a bit complex. and easier to just buy a few chargers. or do it like you are. being small and good looking don't make it work better.
James, Thanks for watching. When I first got started I built a crude charge board that could charge about 9 cells at a time. All my discharges were done on my iMax B6 mini, it took forever. I was processing about 3 cell a day. With my charge/discharge board I could process about 30+ cells a day. So that really cut my processing time down a ton. So worth it to me. As for being OCD, well I just love spending the time making things look good. :-) Frank
Wow I would've expected a higher processing rate. How long does it take to discharge a cell using this set up?
You might remember me from other comments but I am adding a battery pack to extend the range of my EV. I was going to go with LG MJ1 3500 mah cells for $3.80 each but I just found a deal on used Samsung 26f cells for only $1 each! So now I am scrambling to find a fast testing solution. I need 3700 cells tested. 60 cells a day will take me 62 days!