How long does it take for the fungicide coatings on fescue grass seed to wash away or become inert after they’re planted and watered for the first time?
Amended answer: It depends. A hot compost, no. To get a quality decomposition you have to turn a hot pile. A cold pile, yes turning it destroys the fungal network. A hot pile will not have much fungus in it until you stop turning it. A hot pile needs to be turned to decompose, then it needs to sit to "cure", breaking down the final lignins and cellulose and increase the fungal and humic content.
The nutrients are "in your soil" However we keep trucking them to the city and do not bring them back.. I am not convinced that this is sustainable in any way. Until we figure out how to bring the nutrients back to the land I do not see any regenerative way to produce food, feed, fuel, a rich assortment or other products without the addition of purchased nutrients. This is not as simple as composting! There is a great danger in eliminating the current infrastructure of tillage, chemicals, fertilizers without consideration for short term profit. For example reduce fertilizer use beyond a certain point and it becomes economically unavailable. How do we bridge the gap without complete and total meltdown?
Jim Boak In San Francisco there are compost bins provided by waste companys.I dont know your area obviously ;but from what I know the regional waste company sells the composted material recieved from the people in the city .Also ,certain citys are starting to sell human waste ,and i know porta-potty companys sell the resulting forms of urea ammoniacal nitrogen and other various chemicals ,And human waste comapnys sell the human waste to Cultivators and regional farms perhaps that could be an option. There are also free form nitrogen fixing bacteria that pull nitrogen out of the atmosphere so fertilizing could consist of inoculation of your media with these microbes specifically .I havent crunched the numbers personally, but that would seem more cost effective as opposed to buying fertilizer -paying less than you would otherwise at that's what it would seem on the surface at least.She mentions using earth worm castings as well as composting( organic matter =microbial food/ worm castings = humus/plant food . Promoting the natural microbiota in the soil (the ideal balance between the various forms of micro life(bacteria ,fungi, protazoa, beneficial nematodes,preditor nematodes ,micro arthropods-onto the tiers of trophic consumers like us)Is this comercially viable perhaps on a certain scale which there are limits of course as to what is realistically practical)The fact of tractors, workers, causing compaction thus necessitate tillage.Perhaps the methods of indirect tillage you mention could maybe minimize the potential disruption of the soil life that is vital for this method to be effective.I personally would like to know more of these methods you mention specifically.This method reduces the need for the quantity of fertilizers required while at the same time reducing or eliminating things like runnoff as well as allowing earth natural cycle to promote the earths various cycles of nitrogen ,carbon, & water.The alternative is the current paradigm which is disrupting natures natural cycle of birth ,growth ,death ,decay.The infrastructure would have to remodel its self in order to remain commercial viable or become obsolete as so many past business methods have.Disrupting the earths water cycle is a byproduct of our paved citys streets and sidewalks blocking rain that falls to the earth deterring retranspiration back into the earths atmosphere where it goes through its various cycles again.As well as the nitrogen cycle , carbon cycle& phosphorus cycle (which is running out of phosphorus to be produced). Also I.B.M( intergrated pest management) would help contribute to less of a need for chemicals.Its a matter of which produces LESS of a detrimental effect on a given crops yield overall.Intergating natural predators into your area of production and the minmizing any damage done by the predators. Vs the chemicals used that offer A temporary defense of various pest and disease which eventually develop resistances.I've seen gardens that use these methods( working with natures soil/food web i.e permaculture) with great success.Whom diversify what they produce as far as raising a finite amount of animals ( fertilizers via producing detritus) various crops etc in an appropriate proportion for ourselves ,as well as the communitys in which we live.In an ideal world we wouldn't want to eat excessively and then waste excessively by throwing food we consume( creating demand ,but do we need that?).These cycles need to be kept in balance or more extreme weather drought and flood etc will result.These cycles are vital for everything else . We critically need a major reoverhaul of our infrastructure; not the same closed loop systems that are using without replacing; simply for the sake of infrastructure and the employment it provides, businesses and jobs come and go how do we employee the masses with little to no education or job skill? how much do we need? How is endless growth and using without renewing, and disregard for how much is available, sustainably A realistic long term plan?.We're doing it the wrong way.Try not to allow modern needs ( same as they've always been food, water ,air ,shelter) over wants ( what we mistakenly think we need).Currently the market for organics is lucrative apparently, think quality over quantity that's impact is less disruptive overall being there is a place for everything and everything in its place.All in their proper proportion. At the least do it For the sake of future generations inheriting this classical mess we call modern civilized society. Finally i dont know if your religious or not ,but its simply the proper Christian thing to do & I'm sure most other relgoius circles as well.Sorry so long and hope this helps to clarify .
There are 2 things to consider. One is the nutrients, the other one is the organic matter. You need organic matter (high in carbon) to be brought back to the soil for the micro organisms to live and thrive; and those micro organisms are the ones structuring your soil and also feeding your plants, so you need to feed them. Normally the plant system feeds them by bringing carbon into the soil in 2 ways: root exudates, and dead plant material on the surface (leaves for instance), so if your remove the entire crop, for instance all the corn plant, that is a problem because you are removing the dead plant material from the surface of the soil, cutting a food supply for the soil organisms. So compost is a good way to bring back the organic matter to the field. The other point is the nutrients. There is no probleme of nutrients in the soil, except potentially nitrogen. Rocks contain all the nutrients needed for plants to grow, so when we have a crop and remove the corn from the field, you do remove nutrients, but compared to the pool of nutrient contained into the rocks, it's nothing (think about how plants have been attacking rocks for billions of years and we still have rocks !). Basically we are eating plants that slowly eat rocks thanks to the energy of the sun. But you need the soil micro orhanisms to be able to convert the rocks (and its nutrients) into a form that is digestable by plants. The same way we cannot eat a piece of iron to get the iron we need. About nitrogen, the only way to get nitrogen into the soil is through the biological activity (N fixing bacterias) or synthetic fertilizers. But synthetic fertilizer disbalance the ratio between fungu and bacterias. Basically those boost the bacterias that burn the humus (mineralization) so the carbon stocks of your soil is tapped and disappear really fast, boosting temporarily your production, but once the carbon stock is too low, then many of the micro organisms die because of lack of food. And then your plants cannot function very well without very low uptake of nutrients from the soil (that hapen thanks for the micro organisms once again) so they get sick, get attacked by parasites, pests etc, so the next logical step after using fertilizers for several years (the time to deplete carbon stock of your soil) is to use pesticides, fungicide etc So, in a nutshell, you need organic matter to feed the micro organisms of the soil, and you need those soil organisms to feed the plants.
There is a billion years of nutrients in the soil. They are NOT going to run out because of the parent materials. The bacteria and fungi break them down for the rest of the soil food web to continue to process and make bio-available round the roots of EVERY plant, shielding them even from pests and disease causing organisms. All else said to the contrary is a massive, dangerous, ecocidal lie for industry and statist insaniacs GDP! The plough has wiped out the soil food web for 5-8 000 years, possibly longer - and left deserts where there should have been forests and living soils. Now for the last fifty years we've compounded it by killing all micro-biology with damned chemicals, making junkies out of our food and removing the nutrients that both the plants - and us - need for full health. Even manuring the land directly without hot composting it serves only to move the land back in succession and selects for weeds, with mostly the nitrate form of Nitrogen and no fungal food to create the ammonium needed.
You miss out on the reality that if you eliminate the need for the distribution of emergency remedies then when you do need them they will not exist or if they do exist they will be no longer affordable.
Jim Boak ok, you either don't understand english or you're a biotech troll. For all others that have the misfortune of reading this mans comments, everything he's brought up are the same talking points the biotech and chemical companies spend millions of dollars to put out every year. Nature has flourished in harmony for billions of years without us. All we need to do is copy nature all the issues will go away.
In permaculture or organic agriculture there are emergency remedies to make corrections in your crops, if needed . they are not sinthetic man made chemical but natural remedies that work pretty well. For example, wood ashes mixed with bone dust made into a foliar spray to induce or activate natural defends. Remember plants are in control, they have been for billions of years just mimic and work with Nature not against it. Unfortunately all comercial growers, buy seeds that have been modified in a lab. These are seeds that have been programmed to respond to a package of chemicals and they will do poorly in a different environment. My suggestion to Jim is to please learn more about the topic so you can assimilate the truth.
So - every operation required to plant, care for and harvest a crop results in squashing air out of the soil - So how do you expect aerobic conditions to regenerate without some assistance from some form of tillage? You bash tillage and yet there are forms of tillage that are less intrusive than planters and do a better job, a more profitable job of planting than planters?
Breaking the soil into very fine particules through the tillage process, you will make the soil a dust like dirt that will prevent air (and oxygen) to move through your profile which will make sure the beneficial organisms that need air to decompose the organic matter will die. The porousity of the soil is maintained thanks to the bacterias, fungi and other higher order predators, not through tillage, especially to the level it is done nowadays. Scratching a bit the surface to plant causes limited harm, but very deep tillage, which will take your organic matter and put it down into the anaerobic soil will lead to putrefaction and making the soil toxic to your plants.
You mention no tilling one last time... that would only be possible if we could float planters, chemical applicators, fertilizer applicators, harvesters and grain transporters on a cushion of air... you have to look at the entire equation and you also need to be surgical in your description of tillage. Using the word tillage as a descriptor is as effective is telling your doctor that you are sick.. Follow that conversation in your head.... We can not kill tillage without killing solutions - be very specific - surgical. Not just in describing the implement but also the terms of it's use. The danger of saying tillage is bad is the very same danger that we face when we claim one religion is bad vs the other. JB
I've been watching Elaine Ingham for years. As far as I'm concerned, she is the queen of soil. She has credibility and as far as I can tell, you don't. I suggest you get out a pen and notpad and take some notes. I'm guessing you are with Monsanto or some big ag company. If that is the case, you are destroying our soils and water sources.
If you actually listen to her lectures, she doesn't say never till. She's says tilling as an annual practice is not necessary and kills the life in the soil and should avoided. You took things to the extreme and used talking points, not all were related to the subject btw.
Jim is addicted to tillage and caught in the traditionalism of "conventional" agritculture. It doesn't seem to matter to him that hundreds of farmers in the US are going no-till and seeing improvements. If Jim would break out of his mold of soil degredation agriculture, he might just become prifitable.
How long does it take for the fungicide coatings on fescue grass seed to wash away or become inert after they’re planted and watered for the first time?
Question? By turning your compost wouldn't that be the same as tilling the soil?
Except that if you don't turn the compost it may ignite..
No
Amended answer: It depends. A hot compost, no. To get a quality decomposition you have to turn a hot pile. A cold pile, yes turning it destroys the fungal network. A hot pile will not have much fungus in it until you stop turning it. A hot pile needs to be turned to decompose, then it needs to sit to "cure", breaking down the final lignins and cellulose and increase the fungal and humic content.
You can hear the heads exploding im that room.....
I've been i that room before....
i didnt think the nsa actually had trolls online, ive heard about them.... read on below hahaha wow
She is chewing this topic like a bubble gum. Come straight to the point
The nutrients are "in your soil" However we keep trucking them to the city and do not bring them back.. I am not convinced that this is sustainable in any way. Until we figure out how to bring the nutrients back to the land I do not see any regenerative way to produce food, feed, fuel, a rich assortment or other products without the addition of purchased nutrients. This is not as simple as composting! There is a great danger in eliminating the current infrastructure of tillage, chemicals, fertilizers without consideration for short term profit. For example reduce fertilizer use beyond a certain point and it becomes economically unavailable. How do we bridge the gap without complete and total meltdown?
Jim Boak In San Francisco there are compost bins provided by waste companys.I dont know your area obviously ;but from what I know the regional waste company sells the composted material recieved from the people in the city .Also ,certain citys are starting to sell human waste ,and i know porta-potty companys sell the resulting forms of urea ammoniacal nitrogen and other various chemicals ,And human waste comapnys sell the human waste to Cultivators and regional farms perhaps that could be an option.
There are also free form nitrogen fixing bacteria that pull nitrogen out of the atmosphere so fertilizing could consist of inoculation of your media with these microbes specifically .I havent crunched the numbers personally, but that would seem more cost effective as opposed to buying fertilizer -paying less than you would otherwise at that's what it would seem on the surface at least.She mentions using earth worm castings as well as composting( organic matter =microbial food/ worm castings = humus/plant food . Promoting the natural microbiota in the soil (the ideal balance between the various forms of micro life(bacteria ,fungi, protazoa, beneficial nematodes,preditor nematodes ,micro arthropods-onto the tiers of trophic consumers like us)Is this comercially viable perhaps on a certain scale which there are limits of course as to what is realistically practical)The fact of tractors, workers, causing compaction thus necessitate tillage.Perhaps the methods of indirect tillage you mention could maybe minimize the potential disruption of the soil life that is vital for this method to be effective.I personally would like to know more of these methods you mention specifically.This method reduces the need for the quantity of fertilizers required while at the same time reducing or eliminating things like runnoff as well as allowing earth natural cycle to promote the earths various cycles of nitrogen ,carbon, & water.The alternative is the current paradigm which is disrupting natures natural cycle of birth ,growth ,death ,decay.The infrastructure would have to remodel its self in order to remain commercial viable or become obsolete as so many past business methods have.Disrupting the earths water cycle is a byproduct of our paved citys streets and sidewalks blocking rain that falls to the earth deterring retranspiration back into the earths atmosphere where it goes through its various cycles again.As well as the nitrogen cycle , carbon cycle& phosphorus cycle (which is running out of phosphorus to be produced).
Also I.B.M( intergrated pest management) would help contribute to less of a need for chemicals.Its a matter of which produces LESS of a detrimental effect on a given crops yield overall.Intergating natural predators into your area of production and the minmizing any damage done by the predators. Vs the chemicals used that offer A temporary defense of various pest and disease which eventually develop resistances.I've seen gardens that use these methods( working with natures soil/food web i.e permaculture) with great success.Whom diversify what they produce as far as raising a finite amount of animals ( fertilizers via producing detritus) various crops etc in an appropriate proportion for ourselves ,as well as the communitys in which we live.In an ideal world we wouldn't want to eat excessively and then waste excessively by throwing food we consume( creating demand ,but do we need that?).These cycles need to be kept in balance or more extreme weather drought and flood etc will result.These cycles are vital for everything else . We critically need a major reoverhaul of our infrastructure; not the same closed loop systems that are using without replacing; simply for the sake of infrastructure and the employment it provides, businesses and jobs come and go how do we employee the masses with little to no education or job skill? how much do we need? How is endless growth and using without renewing, and disregard for how much is available, sustainably A realistic long term plan?.We're doing it the wrong way.Try not to allow modern needs ( same as they've always been food, water ,air ,shelter) over wants ( what we mistakenly think we need).Currently the market for organics is lucrative apparently, think quality over quantity that's impact is less disruptive overall being there is a place for everything and everything in its place.All in their proper proportion. At the least do it For the sake of future generations inheriting this classical mess we call modern civilized society. Finally i dont know if your religious or not ,but its simply the proper Christian thing to do & I'm sure most other relgoius circles as well.Sorry so long and hope this helps to clarify .
There are 2 things to consider. One is the nutrients, the other one is the organic matter. You need organic matter (high in carbon) to be brought back to the soil for the micro organisms to live and thrive; and those micro organisms are the ones structuring your soil and also feeding your plants, so you need to feed them. Normally the plant system feeds them by bringing carbon into the soil in 2 ways: root exudates, and dead plant material on the surface (leaves for instance), so if your remove the entire crop, for instance all the corn plant, that is a problem because you are removing the dead plant material from the surface of the soil, cutting a food supply for the soil organisms. So compost is a good way to bring back the organic matter to the field.
The other point is the nutrients. There is no probleme of nutrients in the soil, except potentially nitrogen. Rocks contain all the nutrients needed for plants to grow, so when we have a crop and remove the corn from the field, you do remove nutrients, but compared to the pool of nutrient contained into the rocks, it's nothing (think about how plants have been attacking rocks for billions of years and we still have rocks !). Basically we are eating plants that slowly eat rocks thanks to the energy of the sun. But you need the soil micro orhanisms to be able to convert the rocks (and its nutrients) into a form that is digestable by plants. The same way we cannot eat a piece of iron to get the iron we need. About nitrogen, the only way to get nitrogen into the soil is through the biological activity (N fixing bacterias) or synthetic fertilizers. But synthetic fertilizer disbalance the ratio between fungu and bacterias. Basically those boost the bacterias that burn the humus (mineralization) so the carbon stocks of your soil is tapped and disappear really fast, boosting temporarily your production, but once the carbon stock is too low, then many of the micro organisms die because of lack of food. And then your plants cannot function very well without very low uptake of nutrients from the soil (that hapen thanks for the micro organisms once again) so they get sick, get attacked by parasites, pests etc, so the next logical step after using fertilizers for several years (the time to deplete carbon stock of your soil) is to use pesticides, fungicide etc
So, in a nutshell, you need organic matter to feed the micro organisms of the soil, and you need those soil organisms to feed the plants.
Les liens de tonton Bastoune f
There is a billion years of nutrients in the soil. They are NOT going to run out because of the parent materials. The bacteria and fungi break them down for the rest of the soil food web to continue to process and make bio-available round the roots of EVERY plant, shielding them even from pests and disease causing organisms. All else said to the contrary is a massive, dangerous, ecocidal lie for industry and statist insaniacs GDP! The plough has wiped out the soil food web for 5-8 000 years, possibly longer - and left deserts where there should have been forests and living soils. Now for the last fifty years we've compounded it by killing all micro-biology with damned chemicals, making junkies out of our food and removing the nutrients that both the plants - and us - need for full health. Even manuring the land directly without hot composting it serves only to move the land back in succession and selects for weeds, with mostly the nitrate form of Nitrogen and no fungal food to create the ammonium needed.
She means they are not in forms available to the plants. Bacteria and fungi break them down eventually...
You miss out on the reality that if you eliminate the need for the distribution of emergency remedies then when you do need them they will not exist or if they do exist they will be no longer affordable.
Jim Boak ok, you either don't understand english or you're a biotech troll. For all others that have the misfortune of reading this mans comments, everything he's brought up are the same talking points the biotech and chemical companies spend millions of dollars to put out every year. Nature has flourished in harmony for billions of years without us. All we need to do is copy nature all the issues will go away.
This is an emergency situation. And the nutrients are being replenished by the organisms.
In permaculture or organic agriculture there are emergency remedies to make corrections in your crops, if needed . they are not sinthetic man made chemical but natural remedies that work pretty well. For example, wood ashes mixed with bone dust made into a foliar spray to induce or activate natural defends. Remember plants are in control, they have been for billions of years just mimic and work with
Nature not against it. Unfortunately all comercial growers, buy seeds that have been modified in a lab. These are seeds that have been programmed to respond to a package of chemicals and they will do poorly in a different environment. My suggestion to Jim is to please learn more about the topic so you can assimilate the truth.
So - every operation required to plant, care for and harvest a crop results in squashing air out of the soil - So how do you expect aerobic conditions to regenerate without some assistance from some form of tillage?
You bash tillage and yet there are forms of tillage that are less intrusive than planters and do a better job, a more profitable job of planting than planters?
Breaking the soil into very fine particules through the tillage process, you will make the soil a dust like dirt that will prevent air (and oxygen) to move through your profile which will make sure the beneficial organisms that need air to decompose the organic matter will die. The porousity of the soil is maintained thanks to the bacterias, fungi and other higher order predators, not through tillage, especially to the level it is done nowadays. Scratching a bit the surface to plant causes limited harm, but very deep tillage, which will take your organic matter and put it down into the anaerobic soil will lead to putrefaction and making the soil toxic to your plants.
You mention no tilling one last time... that would only be possible if we could float planters, chemical applicators, fertilizer applicators, harvesters and grain transporters on a cushion of air... you have to look at the entire equation and you also need to be surgical in your description of tillage. Using the word tillage as a descriptor is as effective is telling your doctor that you are sick.. Follow that conversation in your head....
We can not kill tillage without killing solutions - be very specific - surgical. Not just in describing the implement but also the terms of it's use.
The danger of saying tillage is bad is the very same danger that we face when we claim one religion is bad vs the other.
JB
I've been watching Elaine Ingham for years. As far as I'm concerned, she is the queen of soil. She has credibility and as far as I can tell, you don't. I suggest you get out a pen and notpad and take some notes. I'm guessing you are with Monsanto or some big ag company. If that is the case, you are destroying our soils and water sources.
If you actually listen to her lectures, she doesn't say never till. She's says tilling as an annual practice is not necessary and kills the life in the soil and should avoided. You took things to the extreme and used talking points, not all were related to the subject btw.
Jim is addicted to tillage and caught in the traditionalism of "conventional" agritculture. It doesn't seem to matter to him that hundreds of farmers in the US are going no-till and seeing improvements. If Jim would break out of his mold of soil degredation agriculture, he might just become prifitable.
Amen. What a flat earth puppet.@@RealEstateInsider247
Ha ha, you are so stupid! It’s going to take awhile for all of these dummies to get it.... lol