What Makes a Great Hub World? - How Mario 64, Spyro, and Hades Made Theirs ~ Design Doc
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 5 พ.ค. 2024
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Every game needs structure. Something to bind a set of experiences into a cohesive whole. It could just be a menu or a simple world map, but for some games, that structure means an ambitious hub world. Careful though, with high ambition comes high stakes. Let's talk about hub world design, some good and bad attempts at making them, and the factors that can elevate the hub world into its own memorable experience.
Featuring:
Spyro the Dragon
Ty the Tasmanian Tiger
Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door
Super Paper Mario
Hades
Fire Emblem: Three Houses
Super Mario 64
Super Mario Sunshine
Super Mario Galaxy
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#mario64 #spyro #hades - เกม
Just FYI, my graphic design teacher uses your videos, especially the Good Design VS Bad Design series to teach us about correct contrast, fonts, colors and such. Thanks for all your work!
You that's so awesome!
What does your teacher do during ad reads? Does your teacher just let this guy sell crap to your whole class?
@@ZyrusSmith in my science class my teacher uses videos (not these) and she always just let the ad reads play it’s hilarious I always feel like making a joke
@@ZyrusSmith we're in 2023. Everyone should be using adblock by now.
@@lhmsc he means sponsored ads in the video itself
I never realized how SM64 plays with your expectations as a kid. Basement: there are almost no paintings and you need to look everywhere to find a level entrance. Top floor: there are paintings EVERYWHERE, but most of them aren't level entrances. It's basically Silent Hill levels of mindgames.
Wario AI memes intensify.
Lethal Lava Land: Am I a joke to you?
@@Paradox-xm9zq they said ALMOST no paintings
@@Gamebuilder2000 Oh, right
Guess there is a reason it's absolutely legendary.
I played "A Hat in Time" with my girlfriend, and while we were always partners on the levels, every time we came back into the HUB world, we would always beat the shit out of each other with our characters, just for the sake of fun, and that's a very important aspect of that HUB for me
I do this even in normal levels when i play with my gf lol
There's nothing like a friendly brawl in the hub world to show how chaotic and crazy the players are.
You got a gf, man your lucky.
I like Dark Souls "hub world" of Firelink Shrine. It doesn't feel like a hub world initially, and it's difficult to reach the first time. But as you play the game, you'll unlock shortcuts that loop back to the Firelink Shrine. Over time, given the difficulty of the game and its sparse checkpoints, you'll always be on the edge of your seat trying to find a new shortcut back to the Firelink Shrine and save your progress. In a game where you are always afraid of what's around the corner, finding a shortcut that leads back to it gives you an overwhelming sense of relief and let's you recuperate for more adventures.
I was thinking the same thing
I'm actually the opposite. The fact that you don't return often to Firelight, and the fact that there aren't really any permanent residents makes it way less interesting that other Souls hubs like Majula, the Nexus, or even DS3's Firelink. There just doesn't feel like much is there to see, especially by Anor Londo.
@@01ChaosWarrior Firelink 1 isn't full of secrets or interesting things, but the beauty of it is that shortcuts tend to return you to the shrine in the first half of the game, and it's a good staging area with most vendors and NPC's. But in the second half, it's not a hub area anymore. Most NPC's leave and there are no more paths that lead you back anymore. Taking away the hub is a subtle way the game sets up the difficulty of the Lord Souls questline, because you lose the only "home" in a cold, undead world.
Basically, the fact that it's not a hub world, and then loses whatever pseudo-hub status it has, is an extremely creative use of gaming concepts as story elements, which is why the real hub world of Firelink 3 really disappointed me.
@@jeffreymedvick6541 I mean, outside of the basic magic guy you can save, what vendors are there that give anything meaningful? Pretty much the only time I can think of when that area is populated is the very small time between ringing both bells, and going to Anor Londo. Honestly, the bonfire above Andre feels more like a proper "base" then Firelink to me. And even then the only reason is because he can do infusion.
@@01ChaosWarrior That's my point, only the entry-level pyromancy, magic, and miracle vendors are there (except Big Hat Logan, but he dies too), until the Lord Souls quest kicks in and they all find their own corner of Lordran to die in. Most NPC's find their way to Firelink, like Lautrec and Siegmeyer, but they offer next to nothing after Anor Londo. Their wares are useless and their fresh dialogue happens elsewhere, and now you can teleport everywhere. For the first half of the game, Firelink is a hub basically because of the structure of the world, it's the first area after the asylum and everywhere leads back to it. In the second half, it's not a hub, meaning you have no hub, which feels much less safe.
Spyro's hub world feels so natural
I forgot it had more detailed hubs. I was thinking about the hub of hubs, which is basically just a glorified menu.
100% agree!! my favorite thing to do as a kid in spyro 2 was to run around autumn plains, especially jumping from the top of the tower
They are basically regular levels
Loved spyro
@@The_One_In_Black what "hub of hubs" are you talking about?
Diddy Kong Racing had a great hub world with both a bunch of fun secrets to play, but also a safe way to get familiar with the 3 different kinds of vehicles and how each of them handle.
Yeah it was the first time I'd seen a hub in a racing game! I love it
I think galaxy's hub even though lacks in gameplay has some very good narrative attached to it, it begins very dark and alien but by the end of the game it just feels like home, it's very cozy and reflects very well the character of rosalina when you hear her story too
I feel so nostalgic when thinking about mario galaxy and its hub world, i feel like it's meant to focus on narrative, player progress and giving a sense of home, insted of focusing on the mechanics of the game. I like it a lot.
yeah exactly, in my opinion it isn't really supposed to offer another platforming challenge or secrets to uncover, but instead a quiet place to reflect on your progress. Seeing the dark, cold observatory open up over time and reveal it's beauty is really cool and is something I remember very fondly from my childhood.
@@Lismakingmovie fr i played sunshine as a kid before and played it a LOT and galaxies hub world is still extremely nostalgic to me despite playing sunshine a little bit more and it was my first mario yet they both hold almost equal levels of nostalgia i really think galaxies hub world is just dated but back then that shit was awe inspiring any hubworld thats just supposed to be vibey is gonna age
I'll admit SMG's hub was pretty empty, but imo that kinda seems like the point
you spend the rest of the game being thrown around by black holes, thwomps, weird gravity, insects, and all kinds of stuff
and then you get to the hub and you relax, read a story with rosalina, and take a quick break before jumping back in for more chaos
Then SMG2 come along and changes it entirely, while also being it's own planetoid. G1 at least did let you choose the order after a point of what you wanted to play in each Observatory when you got them them, which was nice.
Also SMG's hub is a nice break from the weird gravity which can get disorienting.
And the empty nature is very fitting space considering all* of our famous photos of planets were taken from millions of miles away with a camera fov of 2 degrees or less.
*Mostly all
Nah, you're reading way too much into it to justify it here. It really isn't and it really doesn't and it really didn't need to be imo.
Aya completely agree, and I think the lack of exploration helps make the place feel more like a home - completely knowable and familiar
@@Valanway I will say the seeming hybrid of hub world in SS Mario (which has many tutorial like areas and a growing cast every time you go to certain planetoids) is really cool as it makes sense (the hub is moving) and easy to travel and IMO more immersive (as you actually travel to those areas and not instashoot you to your choice).
The Lego games have had a good track record with these, from iconic locations like the Cantina in Star Wars to the famous Batcave, but the one that sticks in my head is the college from Lego Indiana Jones. I enjoyed my time there to the point I'd goof around, looking in every room and slowly getting the right characters to unlock all the secrets. It was great, but I can understand if others found a different one more iconic.
I think that can depend on nostalgia. For me, the Lego star wars complete saga hub has so much nostalgia for me but hogwarts in Lego Harry Potter was just so fun to explore since I had seen the movies and read the books, I recognized everything and it made me so happy
I think the monestary is one of the best and worst aspects of Fire Emblem 3 Houses. You didn't mention how going back to it between story missions makes no sense for a lot of the game's story (especially the second half).
I love everything about 3H, except for Garreg Mach
I agree that going back on the second half does not make much sense, but I actually love the monastery! That made me be able to play 3H for far longer than I thought I would, as I did not always feel like battling and really enjoyed just going around and talking with my students. It helps break up the pacing and prevent it to feel too monotone.
I like the monestary too and I love interacting with and tutoring the students. I just think running around the thing 20+ times gets old.
I think a future installment of the series could benefit greatly if it kept the structure of having a dynamic hub world in a similar style to 3H between missions, but instead focus on having several smaller ones based on where your army is encamped. Essentially, they could be like visiting new towns in a standard RPG when occupying one, but would also include setting up tent cities in non-urban environments.
I think it would have been really cool for, depending on which route you took, the second half of the game took place at the chosen countries Royal Castle. Giving you a new place to explore for the second half of the game. I generally loved roaming the Monastery, however it does become a bit of a slog late in the game.
the fact Persona 4's hub feels so realistic and down-to-earth is what connected me to its story. everything being muddy with ps2 graphics and teh way the camera pans around the town as you walk and the fact the music changes to pop tunes and sometimes cuts out completely feels Real . seeing this town comment on events with no idea on the truth is also thematically relevant. i never thought a setting was that important until i saw persona 4. i will always cherish Yasoinaba.
Yeah, Inaba is just so *cozy.* Between that and how likeable the party is, and I would have happily just kept hanging out with them for months if the game had let me.
Inaba is a cozy hug. Then I really liked how that changes as we approached the climax with the weather change, that was a nice little subversion.
I dont really see Inaba as a hubworld
So glad you mentioned Spyro because I always thought it’s hub world was very underrated
I feel like he purposefully tortured fans by repeatedly showing off Sonic Adventure's hub
Well, What do you think of it?
@@cliffturbo2146 I think its awesome
I think it’s pretty good. Maybe the directions could be improved a little, but as for feel and story, I think it succeeded. The NPCs say different things depending on where you are in the plot and the different stages are tied together quite nicely from a worldbuilding standpoint. The Egg Carrier hub was a very believable evil base as well as a great insight into Eggman‘s character. I had a lot of fun screwing around in this game‘s hub with all these different characters, though I do wish there was a little more stuff to do.
@@rainpooper7088 the hub fails with its fetch quests like "take random stone to enter windy valley" but it positively succeeds at hiding cool secrets like emblems and powerups and being a playtest for players imo
@@cliffturbo2146 Basically the same thing I think of the entire game. A lot of ambition, a lot of good ideas, but they just didn't know how to implement it all in the best way. In the end, kind of boring.
IMO, SA2 improved on SA1 in almost every way. I would have liked if they had expanded on the hub world concept, but no hub is better than a bad hub.
The Hub area from Bastion, while tiny and lacking in exploration, gets a lot of mileage for its money by one simple thing: After each level YOU get to choose one upgrade to add to the hub level, with both a story purpose and a gameplay use. This ties the hub world to both your narrative goal and your goals as a player. It also gives you plenty of chances to listen to the narrator dish out lore in his lovely voice.
I really like Sonic Generations Hub for how minimal it is & how it actually makes sense for the game's story where you're re-adding colour via completing levels so everything goes from monochrome to vibrant great way to visual what you done or not
I don’t really consider that a hub world that more of just a cool level selector
@@bigwave1713 So a hub?
I'd argue it's more of a stage select with added bells and whistles, but it does its job well. Stages are easy to access but there's some platforming challenges to unlock extra stages and bonus content for those who like exploring.
ArtzyZero ^
Sonic Generations had a story?
I want to pose an argument regarding what you said about Galaxy 1's hub. Sometimes having your hub as a source of atmosphere and eye candy is also a viable way of designing your hub and honestly, it makes sense in this case. Galaxy 1 is a linear 3D Mario game, not a sandbox-based one like the previous so having a more straight-to-the-point hub world feels more fitting. They could have done more to spice it up but honestly, the atmosphere alone was enough to make it one of the most memorable ones in the entire series. Sometimes art direction is in a sense its own design choice.
This is exactly what I was going to comment. He said something that especially annoyed me (17:24):
"Mario Galaxy is fantastic... but not because of its hub"
...then how is it fantastic, exactly? As much as I like Mario Galaxy, I find the level design to be pretty poor, often lacking direction and introducing gimmicks that, though usually fun, are pretty pointless, going nowhere and never or barely showing up for the rest of the game (Barry Kramer made a fantastic video which really resonated with my own feelings about the game, explaining this better than I could). It also has pretty weak controls, even though they do work for their intended purposes. It's a game that, in my opinion, mostly excels in its fantastic sense of cosmic, comfy immersion and spectacle, offered by both visuals and sound - and the hub world is quite literally an expression of that. That's why so many people love the game and remember it so fondly (even me, who only first played it two years ago because my dumbas* accidentally bought Galaxy 2 instead of 1 back in the day).
If he doesn't like the hub world... what does he exactly like ?
@@20000dino just because you dont like something doesnt mean no one does
But there is one thing for sure right? The hub world from Mario Galaxy 1 being better than Mario Galaxy 2
I would also add that it does have a narrative purpose. In the game your goal is to collect power stars, especially grand stars, so that you can travel further and eventually all the way to the centre of the universe to defeat Bowser. Now look at the hub. When you start, most of it is dark, and lack the functionality that let you visit most parts. As you progress through the game, the sun at its centre grows and more areas are lit up, one by one. The place comes alive, with colour, light and lumas, not to mention music. Compare the observatory theme from the beginning of the game to the end of the game, and it provides a very different feeling. Super Mario Galaxy also often has a sort of quiet solitude to it, which is somewhat mirrored by the Observatory not being too complicated and bustling with activity. There's also story time in the library. It's not exactly a secret, but it is a reward for a bit of exploration, and a place you'll return to time and again to hear the full story. Yet again a story of loneliness. "The quiet sadness of Super Mario Galaxy" is a great video on this feeling which permeates the game and makes it so memorable.
Replaying Sunshine and I love how the Hub World is constantly changing after every few missions
Its the best part of Sunshine IMO. Just when I think I found all the secrets in Delfino Plaza, I'll eventually notice something else when I return next time
Imo hubs should also be fun to run around in, ya know just move. If your hub world can let me waste a half hour just running around then it's a solid hub world.
I remember having memories of Mario sunshine and just messing around the Delfino Island. Not wanting to go into a level. Just seeing how high I can get without running out of water
It really helps when the character is just fun to control. That's one of Mario's strengths, he has so many movement options that are so easy and rewarding to pull off.
@@CrownRock1 Mario Odyssey has a lot of moves Mario can do, and that’s one of the reasons why I love Mario Odyssey
One thing i value in a hub world is the travel time between "menu items", i like to explore the hub but also not waste time traveling between world entrances, shops, ect.
Like how in sunshine the main levels all return you to the portal so to go back you only need to jump, which saves running back or completing the challenge 8 times. It also concentrates the entrances in one section (the land) with the large water to play in separate so as not to waste time traversing it.
With Three Houses, i honestly thought we would eventually leave garegg mach to match the moving story, but was disappointed that it wasn't the case. As much as i loved 3H, the locations weren't particularly interesting to look at and doing the academy stuff became tedious in subsequent playthroughs.
If the monastery is the only hub in the game we get, i would have wished it was better designed and had some differences with each route.
I would have settled for at least changing the music and weather with the seasons
I really enjoy the hub worlds of the LEGO games. They have secrets, extra content, paths to extra levels, and all sorts of fun stuff, as well as character creator sections and the like
Mass Effect definitely nailed its hub worlds.
Going back to the normandy after a mission to chat with the crew was such a rewarding loop :)
The Ebon Hawk in KOTOR 1 and 2 serve a similar purpose, Mass Effect just polished and expanded on it to create a home for Shepherd and the rest of the crew.
I had a similar experience in Andromeda. Had a super insightful convo with the pilot about religion and how she feels it strengthens her science - subverting the expectation that all scientists are atheists.
Traverse Town in Kingdom Hearts 1 is definitely one of the best I've ever seen. The secrets are fun and mostly intuitive and make you want to come back after each new ability, they do have some really secretive ones too, but that's honestly a nice thing when it comes to replay value you can still find new secrets. The enemy progression is great too allowing relitavely easy battles if you need to farm common items while still keeping safe areas near the begining with the shops, the aesthetic is beautiful and has a good ammount of easter eggs to various things, the story of the world is always evolving at a nice pace that isn't too fast or slow too, overall it gets a high ranking in every aspect of a good hub world to me
I don't think it counts as a hub world, since you only need to visit it twice in the first game and once in DDD and you don't return there by default. But it is my favorite world in all of Kingdom Hearts in general!
Twilight Town was decent in KH2 but it shared the spot with Halloween Bastion.
KH3 does not have a hub world.
You playing a Sonic Unleashed hub theme at the end of the video reminded me how much I loooveeed the Sonic Unleashed hub worlds. It was so fun having a completely different aesthetic, music, culture, and enviroment in every country you traveled to, and it really felt like you were on a world tour. i remember just spending hours running around each world and buying every single food and souvenir and sometimes just chilling to the music, especially in Apotos day, Spagonia night, and that damn sunset at Adabat night. I even appreciate the day/night music shift and the way different people have different schedules depending on what time of day it is. The theming of every country also hypes you up for the upcoming levels, and there's even a mini action hub for every single country that shows the mechanics of the stages to come. Say what you want about the 20 minute were-hog stages, but man, Sonic Unleased really kicked it out of the park with those hub worlds.
And this would be something that Nintendo would do for Mario in Super Mario Odyssey. With each Kingdom, with some exceptions, have a spot to just relax, talk to the people, and shop for some new clothes and souvenirs before exiting the boarders to hunt for more Power Moons to fuel the Ship.
And of course, we can’t forget how each Kingdom’s atmosphere dynamically change based on everything you did at the kingdom. From freeing the Seaside Kingdom from some water sucking Octopus, resulting to the beautiful Sunset scenery, to exploring the underground of the Sand Kingdom looking for source of the change in Temperature.
And of course, we can’t forget the Entirety of New Donk City, right?
@@donovanboykins1995 fun fact: Some of the people who made Sonic Unleashed made Mario Odyssey.
@@traviscunningham7062 Mind telling me which ones?
@@donovanboykins1995 ok I’m gonna search for them on the Internet.
@@donovanboykins1995 Tetsuya Kobayashi
Makoto Yonezu
Daisuke Amakawa
Hideaki Hakozaki
Keihan Fujii
Ryoichi Yamagishi
And Masahiro Ukai.
I've just recently started playing Paper Mario and I completely agree that the world feels truly alive and dynamic. Great video as always!
skylanders giants' dread-yacht is a masterpiece. theres so much stuff to do in such a small package, it changes aesthetic as the story progresses which really cements the feeling of adventure, and the legendary treasures you find in the levels let you customize how it looks.
I din't think Skylanders has a si gle bad hub world. All of them do a good job of teaching game mechanics and grow as you progress in interesting ways.
The ruins has a lot of personality and unlocks as the gane goes on. And the Academy is the best. Well designed, charming and homey. And all three have great music.
@@emc246 Oh no. Imaginators' hub is terrible. It completely ruins what was improved over the series. Confusing and one of the most disappointing things of the game.
In one defense of Fire Emblem Three Houses' hub... the dialogue changes every time. I am still saddened to see Ashe on a bench freaking out over a mission that's personal to him. It can get tedious but also its nice to see what the whole place is thinking down to the individual guards
i like the one in harry potter and the chamber of secrets.. well, _ones_ cause theres the castle grounds, the main hall itself, and then the grand staircase, but theyre all interconnected. each have a whole bunch of rooms and a crapton of secrets to find, with you being able to find more secrets as you progress, and its REALLY fun
I never thought about the how in the 3D Harry Potter games the castle is in fact one huge hub-world but now you said it I notice it. Maybe it just doesn't feel like a hub-world cause there a lot of secrets and puzzles to find. I spent more time in the castle than anywhere else, trying to alohomora every wall and flipendo every vase and armor.
Thank you for mentioning! Chamber of Secrets is ao underrated and fun to explore
Which console is this on?
its pc i hadnt mentioned it huh
I love Dragon Age Inquisition's Skyhold. Between the War Table, the Undercroft and the characters you can talk to in order to advance their personal quest lines, I can sometimes spend an hour at Skyhold before heading back out to fight stuff.
I’ve always been a fan of skyloft from skyward sword. It had an easy to access shopping hub, a ton of sidequests, a couple of fun secrets and i just adore the aesthetic.
The airspace around it was a bit dull though.
Fire Emblem 3 House's monastery is really cool at first, but becomes a giant chore the more you play. Especially in a second playthrough
One of my favorite hubs is if you can call it a hub, the great plateau from breath of the wild. It's such a great tutorial and it looks beautiful and makes you want to explore the world so much by showing you everything from the start.
Best Zelda tutorial area since Majora's Mask to me! I wish some of the things in the plateau stayed for the full game though, like the sense of progression from earning new runes and equipment. But I understand why they wanted to hand it all to you from the start.
can you really call that a hub? you never return there after the intro. that said, in some ways the tutorial is the best part of the game.
Nintendo: Super Mario Galaxy 2? Never heard of it
DesignDoc: Yeah, what's that?
The mario planet-ship-thing was fun to screw around but it was somewhat cramedxd
The most narcissistic hub world ever.
I didn't like going from the big place you can still kind of explore and which had a story to a spaceship where you need to go to one point and have a classic level select. The NPC's that were there didn't really matter, Lubba was annoying, there was no kind of small story there. It was all crammed and didn't feel like a place to call home which I liked about the first one. The "secret" rooms you can find(easily) are also pretty useless mostly
Getting little things added to Starship Mario was enjoyable, but it would have been so much more fun if it wasn't just a museum of objects/power ups
That whole hub world just boiled down to pressing a switch to open a map screen. IMO it was a bad hub world
@@JM-dq7xn yep. But Mario Odyssey came, and every place in that game feels like a hub world.
It's interesting seeing an analysis of hub worlds like this, but the thing I've always liked about them the most is simply the change in pace they provide. Even in Super Mario Galaxy, which I'll admit does have a pretty lackluster hub, it's still a memorable part of the game for me today because of the feeling of homeliness and overall calmness of it. I think the lack of a hubworld would be very noticable without it. Could you imagine if there was only a list of galaxies that you chose from between missions? *cough* Odyssey *cough*
Both were featured a lot in the background, but I really love both the simplicity of the hat in time hub as well as the amazing utility that is the Yooka Laylee and the impossible lair hub world.
The former is the perfect blend of simplicity and exploration, being filled with secrets and evolving over time as you meet characters and unlock new abilities. The latter goes way beyond what you’d expect of a hub world, being filled with puzzles and things to interact with, but the most fun part is definitely figuring out how to unlock the alternate levels by affecting the level entrance. Personal favourite is flipping a level entrance upside down and having everything in it flip as well. Great video!
Perfect Dark, while its hub world ("Carrington Institute" - totally-not-MI6 to Joanna Dark's totally-not-Bond) is mostly just an out-sized menu screen, does do one really interesting thing with it - one of the game's missions is a hostile invasion of the Institute, so, suddenly, rather than having to figure out a level from scratch, you're thrown into a familiar setting with a new context.
There's also a lot of tutorials and challenges based around moving, or using your gadgets and weapons.
Also, the shooting range to mess with the weapons you unlocked was a nice touch.
But yeah, I remember it feeling really rewarding during the attack on the Insitute, since my previous exploration gave me an edge during the mission because I already knew the layout and where the rooms people mentioned were.
Great call
I came here to post this. By the time the Institute mission happens, you’re so familiar with it, and sort of emotionally attached to it. It really was like defending my home. Well, at least that’s how it felt to 15 year old me back in the day.
garreg mach is an interesting case, to the point where i'd not even call it a hub world
see, hubs and world maps are fundamentally not all that different, with both being a way to put access to mechanics into an in-game location rather than just another menu. they both serve the purpose of adding flavor, breaking up potential slog and monotony buildup from menuing, and adding waaaaay more variety in ways to hide secrets. honestly, the only real difference between them is the main one: world maps feature their own, usually far simplified style of gameplay, while hubs play no differently from the main game itself
now, of course, garreg mach is pretty blatantly inspired from the school life segments of persona 3 and onwards. you control your main character through a single location with standard jrpg controls, sometimes gaining access to new areas or seeing old ones change but never _really_ leaving a relatively small segment of land. instead, progression is mostly felt through npc dialogue and placement, which doesn't change daily but still never stays static ( outside of some npcs that act more as gateways to shops and minigames, anyway ) when crossing significant in-game time intervals. to make sure this part of gameplay serves an actual mechanical purpose, though, you can also shop, play minigames, and perform events that'll improve your characters, and you'll even _have_ to do the latter if you want to make full use of the game's progression systems. of course, each day has a limited amount of time slots for doing most things, so you can't just spend hours and hours in a single day turning your main character into a god while seducing every romanceable character at once - you gotta figure out the best of use of your time, short-term or long-term, and be prepared to pivot if something comes up
so, garreg mach is pretty much identical to iwatodai, inaba, and tokyo from a gameplay perspective, sans the differences that stem from the games' systems as a whole. yet, those three are pretty firmly in the "hub world" category, while garreg mach just feels _different._ the reason for that, though, is pretty obvious:
while in garreg mach, you move byleth forward by pushing up on the control stick. while in normal gameplay, you move byleth forward by moving your cursor over the tile they're in, pressing a, moving your cursor to the tile you perceive as "forward," then pressing a again
three houses just ain't a game that controls or plays like a standard jrpg. hell, fire emblem _as a whole_ basically never does - the one single other exception i can think of is in gaiden, which also had areas that likely served as another inspiration to garreg mach. fire emblem as a whole, including even gaiden, generally prefers to give the player a more traditional world map for selecting levels and handling your between-levels shopping, provided it even allows you to do that in the first place instead of through the levels at you in a continuous manner. it makes sense, though - playing through fire emblem's trpg battles would be a lot clunkier if you had to move your units via jrpg-style controls, while the exact same goes for trying to navigate a hub via the trpg-style controls that makes the battles feel so smooth
what gets really interesting, though, is that i don't even really think garreg mach counts as a world map. see, even though it's a dead ringer for the hub worlds in other games while employing an alternative gameplay style from three houses's main game, it ... doesn't actually serve the primary purpose of a hub _or_ world map. sure, it acts as an in-game location that you navigate to access shops, minigames, skill training, and quests ... and that's it. outside of a rare story beat, exploring garreg mach not only does not directly connect to the main gameplay, but actually _prevents you from accessing it._ instead, that purpose is served by the calender menu _before_ you enter the garreg mach map, which also has the interesting effect of _locking you out_ of what's supposedly the game's central hub during the days you're forced to do a story mission. compare that to the persona series: not only do you have to access the dungeon crawling half of the game by interacting with something in the hub, but times where you're forced _entirely_ out of the hub - not even allowing you to procrastinate on putting your character to bed by glaring at a cat - are rare and often _jarring_
i can think of no other way to conclude this tangent other than saying that garreg mach is neither a hub nor a world map, but a highly immersive version of sm64ds's minigame menu
I love Diddy Kong Racing's. It's compact so it doesn't get tiring; being a racing game players will want to move on quickly (or at least I assume that lmao). But there's also enough room to practice the three vehicles. Oh and it also has hidden spots (including a couple of worlds) so it sprinkles up the fact it's an Adventure Mode.
The Souls series has some excellent hub world music. They set the tone of the hub as (generally) a more peaceful area where the player is safe. Majula's music is haunting and beautiful but also calm and soothing. It's a nice break between each step of your difficult journey through Dark Souls II. I'm surprised that you didn't talk about hub worlds as a potential respite from the challenges of a game.
I love hub worlds, the hunters dream (bloodborne) is my favourite because you dont need to travel far between interactables.
I also thought dark souls was kind of neat, being able to 'recruit' NPCs to your hubworld as you progress through the game
Zelda Majora Mask Clock Town is really good hub world in my opinion. 😍 love that game.
I agree! There's so much to find in it, whether that be character moments, quests, or items. And it does a fantastic job at easing you into the game. I absolutely love the tutorial and series of quests within the walls of Clock Town before regaining your Hylian form. It's one of my favorite video game introductions yet!
I don't know if it can be considered a hub world, but Jacket's apartment in Hotline Miami 1 tells a lot of story just there, with the voice calls, yes, but also the newspaper he collects, the way the apartment changes when he rescues The Girl, and more changes after a certain point in the story.
I really like the hub towns from Steamworld Dig 1 and 2. There are different unique characters, ways to permanently upgrade your character, and ,especially in SWD2, a town where every NPC has a story to tell
Trista from Trails of Cold Steel is a pretty good hub mainly for it having an in story reason to return that feels natural. It also creates a sense of familiarity that leads to some good pay off in the sequel.
I debated whether or not to post about Trista, so I'm glad someone else did. Mostly, I'm not sure if it's fair to call it a hub or not since so much of the game takes place there.
@@azuarc That’s fair. I just always thought of it like a hub town due to most of the exploration taking place in the other areas of the game
The Thousand Year Door's NPC stories really reminds me of the Trails series. My gosh, the amount of NPC dialogue and side stories that just... exist, in the towns and villages, are quite crazy. I loved exploring the school in Cold Steel and seeing all the student's stories play out.
Another hub world I love is Station Square from Sonic Adventure. For one, the levels mesh well with the different parts of the city - Emerald Coast's level even starts out at the beachfront you can see as you enter the level.
But the biggest thing I love about the hub is all the people you can talk to - and more than that, how their sidestories mix the multi-story game mode of Sonic Adventure. In the game, you can play as different characters, each with their own arc that intersects with the others. As a result, you get to see different dialogue for each character, and those dialogues change as you progress through the game.
Add in how the time of day/night changes with each story, and you get a diverse mix of NPC interactions. It's really fascinating to look at the different NPCs' stories and how they evolve not through just one character's playthrough but across the different playable characters' arcs combined.
That said, the other two hub worlds aren't as fun. Mystic Ruins has fewer characters to talk to, and it's a lot like Ty's: spread out areas that really don't have much to actually do in; plus, the maze in the jungle area is really annoying. Egg Carrier has the neat gimmick of transforming and thereby changing its layout, but it doesn't have any characters to talk to at all. Even so, Station Square is one of the better hub worlds I've had the pleasure of exploring.
"More naturally-seeming obstacles like... a giant pineapple"
I don't mind Garreg Mach, in the first half of the game that is. Trying to recruit students is a large part of the activity for me so the second half of the game is a little more boring in that sense
It’s really cool at first but it outstays its welcome.
@@DesignDoc Kinda why I dropped the game after reaching the timeskip tbh. Just had my fill half a playthrough in...
Majula in Dark Souls 2 is one I love, not so much for the exploration or structure or anything else: it's the music. There's nothing like that melancholy song to let me remember to unclench my jaw and relax for a moment.
So bare with me... Sly Cooper 2.
Every major area is basically a hub world with levels branching off or things to do within it. Danger escalates within each of the hubs, but the actual missions within them are the hard part of every hub. But they check all the boxes of being good hubs! There's lots to see, secrets to find, and soft tutorials all over the place. Especially the first one, the streets of Paris are AMAZING at teaching you how to think within the game's terms.
The streets are dangerous so stick to the rooftops, different enemies act different and the ones with flashlights are dangerous and need to be approached methodically, and most of all, if you find a place where you can pull of some neat tricks, you might find a treat tucked away in the form of a clue bottle or something to rob for some easy money... Or a challenge, like loot with a time bomb or a delicate painting you can't get struck while carrying that dares you to show off how well you know the area while you sprint back to your hideout for a juicy cash bonus.
Excellent video. I'm surprised you didn't mention Gruntilda's Lair, though
I love that you mentioned the character arcs of the background characters in Thousand Year Door. Some games can't even give us a satisfying arc of the main characters yet Thousand Year Door flexes on us with having background characters going through entire arcs. There's the gambling mom and her family, there's the rich and depressed koopa, and there's the toad at the Glitz Pit who has a crush on another toad among others. To see the whole arc of the toad with the crush, you have to go back through the entire Pit, which is completely optional. I swear their writing team didn't just go the one extra mile, they went about ten of them.
I like the hubs in the Trails of Cold Steel games. They're fun to explore at first, and there's stuff to do there, but even if you don't want to explore the quick travel options are excellent. Plus it's fun seeing the NPC dialogue change over time.
If you're impressed by Paper Mario having NPCs with a progressing story, you might wanna check out The Legend of Heroes Trails series where the worldbuilding not only has deep lore, but all NPCs have daily lives and stories progressing through several games even, not just one game. It's a series unmatched with how it tells its stories.
GRIS's hub world was always amazing to me. Although it wasn't actually necessary (you can't travel to a level once you've already completed it), but narratively it was so interesting to see her grow and to use the colour that you just unlocked.
5:02 Thank you for giving Ty the Tasmanian Tiger some recognition and love it deserves
I love story driven hub worlds, especially in games where one is a hero and you see that world evolve and improve thanks to what you've done. It gives me a great sense of progress, accomplishment and that I did more than just a level, I saved a village, or smth like that.
Great episode!
I liked Perfect Dark's Carrington Institute, with its shooting gallery, VR training room, etc.
It even became the setting for a mission when the Institute was under attack.
FE:TH has a interesting hub world, that matches it's setting and story, yes; however, I still love the easier and more simple way of interacting with your characters that Awakening has: just select whom you wish to talk to and get your support conversations that way. As immersive as a big hub world with all your favorite characters walking around can be, it definitely loses it's charm after a certain amount of time, when you're having to hunt down everyone; kind of reminding me of Xenoblade X.
A hub world that's compacted and easily ventured through, but still filled with various things to do and people to talk to, as well as constantly growing/evolving as you play; in my opinion are the best ones. That, or just simply, multiple smaller hub worlds you have access to after progressing in certain parts of the game, thus showing how far you've come since the start of your journey.
Another problem I have with Garreg Mock that I haven't seen mentioned is that all the people keep moving around, so you can't even develop some kind of routine when trying to get things done.
What? You get support conversations in Three Houses that way too.
@@bessieburnet9816
You get support conversations that way for everyone but Byleth.
For the main character you have to enter the monastery, look for one of the 3-4 random spots where conversations spawn and then be prompted to start it before you can watch a scene in one of the same non-specific locations as the other support scenes.
If they had set those scenes in specific locations and then moved the characters away from their usual spots (for the month) to match it would have made more sense to tie the conversations to exploration. As it is it's just extra steps to do what's freely available for every other character.
@@Seergun
I lean the other way on this. Everyone moving around is the primary motivation for actually exploring the monastery every month. I have a routine to how I go about exploring, but I don't know where everyone is all the time or what they're doing. Those changes in activity give incentive to check in on everyone instead of fast traveling to the shops and a few key characters.
Problem is there's just so much empty space...
One thing I like in a hub that this video didn't really mention is a sense of progression. I love when the hub changes to reflect how much of the game I've completed.
This is one reason I like the Mario Galaxy hub despite it being uninteresting to explore. The way it lights up and adds instruments to its lovely waltz is a beautiful way to show your progress.
Another good example is Batman: Arkham Knight's GCPD lockup. It starts out empty and quiet, but gets progressively more packed and rowdy as you make your way through the game. The main rogues even get their own special cell as you complete quest lines.
I absolutely love hub worlds with lots of stuff to do, kinda like their own level. Banjo-Kazooie, Banjo-Tooie, DK64, Mario Sunshine, Diddy Kong Racing, Spyro. I love them all so much. But my favorite hub, and that's probably kinda controversial to some, is Showdown Town from Banjo-Kazooie: Nuts&Bolts. There is so much to do and find there. Tons of platforming and secrets. Really, it has even more to offer than any singular game world (and those are massive, too). Hate the game as much as you want, but the hub world is objectively fantastic (though easily exploitable with glitches).
I actually really enjoyed N&B, there was so much to do and exploration felt really rewarding. I was actually surprised at how much platforming and collecting there still was since I considred the game a spin-off, but it honestly feels more like a hybrid. and yeah sure some of the ideas didn't quite work out (some of the missions asked a LOT of you to get the best rating, especially if you tried to do them early on where your cars aren't that good), but the game was clearly made with love, and there were so many cool nods and references to the previous games. I hate that I never got to actually finish the game because I don't own an XBox, I could only play it on a friend's console. Maybe it'll come out on swithc one day lol, although not everyone would probably want that. I get why a lot of people didn't like the game, I really do, but I personally think it was a really fun experience.
@@GL_099 Refreshing to see someone also like the game! Even though Tooie is still my all-time favorite game, I absolutely love N&B. It feels so rewarding to complete missions creatively and I just love exploring so much. Together with a friend, we managed to knock over all dominoes in that Jiggoseum mission. It was really tricky, but actually worked out at the end.
i honestly can't for the life of me figure out why nuts and bolts is hated so much. like, sure, i get why a lot of banjo-kazooie fans were _disappointed_ by it and didn't find much that appealed to them, plus it had some glaring issues when taken on its own merits, but ... it's a game where you get to _build a variety of completely custom vehicles,_ and not only do racing missions with them but _use them to explore these giant, quirky worlds_
it really feels like it should've carved out a stronger niche for itself and be more fondly remembered, now that so many years have passed and it no longer exists in the same context as it did on release
Dirtmouth will always be my personal fav. Watching the town grow from just Elderbug and the bench, to all the allies you’ve encountered on your journey through Hallownest, while still never fully releasing the ominous feeling of solitude, is beautiful.
One of the best hub worlds I have seen is with Traverse Town in Kingdom Hearts. Not only is it completely integrated into the story, but it is also a safe area to buy/sell items that also has some danger to it. You can go into some areas to attack heartless, but generally you can stay safe in the main district. There are even items to find that come into play later, which gives the player a treasure hunt to go on if they want to. Not to mention that the whole aesthetic and music of the area is just AMAZING.
The Hub world in Glover is one of my faves because it gets destroyed in the opening act but as you return the crystals it slowly returns to its former state and is satisfying when it's back to normal.
In my opinion, the best hubworld is Clock Town in Majora'a Mask. There's so much to do in it and the 3 day cycle was so innovative back then.
It's not a hub world
Eternal Darkness: Sanity's Requiem had the mansion, my favorite hub world. It has secrets, progresses the story, and uses meteoidvania elements in a familiar but sinister setting
I love Sly Coopwr's hub worlds because a lot of the levels actually take place in them. You run around, say, Paris, and you see a lot of really interesting things. Some power boxes strewn around, a boat with a bell on it that you can interact with, a DJ patio set up in front of a building, and they all tie into something. These things you notice are actually relevant for the missions. You break the power boxes, you enter the building with the DJ equipment because its one of the villains operations, you ring the bell on the boat to lure out and tail the villain.
Where is the line between a hub world and an overworld? I always kinda thought of the camp in Psychonauts as an overworld, but I can kinda see it as a hub world, too.
Fucking around in Garreg Mach was legit some of the most fun I've had in all 4 of my playthroughs
Banjo-Kazooie and Tooie have my two favorite hubs in any 3-D platformer, and what's most fascinating is they both do totally different things.
Kazooie's Gruntilda's Lair is basically what Peach's Castle would be if you swapped it out with Bowser's Castle instead. It does all of the things you praised Spyro and Mario 64 for - lots of opportunities to explore your moveset, get used to the controls, play around while also being a large space with tons of secrets to discover - while ALSO adding a slight Metroidvania aspect to the exploration (you need this move to get to this part of the lair, or to get this extra Jiggy, etc), AND also manages to act as environmental exposition and tension building around its central antagonist. Grunty never stops taunting you throughout your journey, and everything from the constant portraits and statues of her, to the eccentric layout and plethora of enemies tells you everything you need to know about your fat rhyming foe. You really feel like you're making your way up a tower, and as you progress further in and become more comfortable with your surroundings, you start feeling way more accomplished than you would have if they just took the levels and threw them into a menu.
Tooie, meanwhile, has the luxury of being a sequel so it no longer needs to use its hub-world to characterize its antagonist, and instead takes the opportunity to create a logical living, breathing WORLD. Every level is connected - both via a variety of shortcuts and a literal train that travels between them - and they're also placed in strategic parts of the map that feel like they would actually exist. It's like what Mario Sunshine does with Isle Delphino, but amplified. Instead of just seeing the different levels on the horizon, you can literally see the ways they're all connected and you don't even have to venture back out into the Isle of Hags to switch between them (which both makes them feel like real places, and, mechanically, helps with the increased level of backtracking and Metroid-vania style gating in this game). Not only that, but things you do in some levels can affect things in OTHER levels, adding further to the interconnectedness of it all. It all comes to a head in the final regular level, Cloud Cuckooland, which is up in the clouds and thus overlooks the entire island, demonstrating even more clearly that you weren't just being teleported to different levels; you were exploring real locations. It's just as fun to explore and find secrets in as the previous game, and the progression is far less linear than the previous game, meaning that every time a new level is unlocked you get to explore the island to figure out where it is. It's truly a masterclass in 3D platformer overworld design, and to this day is one of the most immersive overworlds I can think of that wasn't a straight-up open world.
I mostly agree with you. Gruntilda's Lair is probably the best hub world ever made. Im surprised neither that or Isle O Hags were featured or referenced to in the video. EXCEPT that DesignDoc's structure of the video here is designed to introduce the implementation of hub worlds and isnt a deep dive. I can think of many other aspects of hub world design that would been too nuanced for this type of video
Firelink shrine from Dark Souls 1 is one of my favourite hub worlds. Characters come and go throughout the game and progress in their storyline there as well. Its makes the game feel a lot more alive.
The hub area of Final Fantasy Type 0 was so frustrating it made me give up on that game. It's fairly large, but made up of a lot of different tiny rooms with loading in between due to being designed for the PSP. There are also some fairly long walks through empty roads or rooms to access fairly basic functions, and a bunch of hidden story events that require you to be controlling the right character in the right place at the right time of day. Exploring it normally is a boring slog, and stopping to check a guide between story missions also kills the pace of the game.
I like Metroid Prime 2's Temple Grounds. It is a full area, but also a bit of an hub.
Excellent video! I've had video game hubs on my mind for a while, it's great to see a video talk about it.
One thing I've realized over the years is that the hub is usually the place I remember more vividly about a game, more than anything else, especially if I played that game in my childhood. The Mario Sunshine hub is part of me growing up, and I know every nook and cranny. I think that makes the hub pleasant for a kid is the possibility for carefree exploration in a safe environment. In a way, it's like running around in an airport hub waiting for your flight. Nothing much to do, so you run around and try a few things.
One thing I like is when a game's final mission / task takes place in the hub world itself, it just gives me that "dust to dust" feeling that you'll return to the very beginning in order to finish your journey, which emphasizes a saying I really like: "What matters is not the destination, but the journey itself."
A fair share of the Soulsborne games did this (Demon's Souls, Dark Souls, Bloodborne) and even games like Hollow Knight and Metroid Fusion.
Man I think mass effect 2's Normandy is my favorite variation because going around and talking to characters after missions felt like the reward after doing story content. Even in all the games, the Normandy was a good way to keep the pace between story and action relatively solid. The me1 Normandy had a better interconnect feel tho, since there were no forced loading screens, but it was a bit small compared to the others.
Three Houses definitely had too big of a hub, as much as I love it. Fates did it much better (a very rare sentence, I know) with the smaller hub where you could place buildings and other utilities where you wanted and talk to the occasional unit.
Apparently they'd toyed with the idea of an explorable hub world all the way back in FE4 but ended up scrapping it. I kinda hope they do add something like that to the castles in that game if they remake since those maps can take forever. That way you can save and quit without loosing progress, and also interact with the characters more-- especially when pairing them up.
Of course, I don't know if that would work at all.
Spyro 2 has stuck with me since I made it my first-ever 100% completion, and I genuinely believe everything about it to be something special.
One of my favorite hub worlds already got a mention from you here: Super Mario Sunshine. I loved the tropical aesthetic and how each world seemed like a different part of the island. I'd definitely vacation there! And Rogueport from Paper Mario: The Thousand Year Door is awesome as well.
The comet observatory could've been so much more. Imagine if The domes were launch stars that would bring you to planets you could explore, and then find the levels.
My favourite hub-level is probably Majula from Dark Souls 2. I just love it's atmosphere. The charming music, the beautiful sunset, the distant vista of shady ruins and castle towers I've yet to visit at some point... It's so great to return to this place every now and then to spend some souls, make upgrades, talk to NPCs and see what's new. It also has it's share of secrets (a couple of semi-hidden items, a menacing locked house, a bottomless pit to jump into). Even many years later, when I know everything about it, Majula still feels somewhat mysterious and subtly beautiful, setting the tone for the whole game.
One of my favorite recent examples of a good hub world is Waddle Dee Town from Kirby and the Forgotten Land.
As small as it is, it includes a lot of little mini games and details that have nothing to do with the main game, but just make the town feel alive. I also really like how it incorporates all the features of a typical menu screen into a diegetic environment. Instead of watching cutscenes through the start screen, you physically go to a theater, get a ticket, and sit down. The arena and true arena are physical places you can go to. When you buy food at the restaurant, you have the option of eating it there, and you get this little cutscene of Kirby sitting down at a table to eat. It takes all these traditionally shallow game elements and makes them feel like they’re actually part of the universe.
I feel like many Lego games have incredible hub worlds.
Usually you can access levels here, either from one spot, or spread about. Additionally, they are usually FILLED with secrets.
One use of hub worlds that really sticks out in my memory (although, in hindsight, may have needed more polishing) is from the first Sly Cooper game. It organized each phase of the game as a hub world containing levels, gated by a natural progression. There was always plenty of intrigue and secrets to be found in the hub world.
All spyro trilogy hubs are awesome,
artisan home, is a perfect tutorial for the game,
1 like you say the firts dragon is just 5 step in front of you and tell you the story, but not only that he is on the highest plataform, and just on the left you can hear and see another dragon, on the right a portal, and in front a door with shiny gems, so what most player do?
they jump of the plataform and learn to glide, and even the water near the dragon is there because that dragon talks to you about your health meter, Sparks, the brigth yellow dragonfly, you fall in the water and then sparks is suddenly blue, you try to jump and fall again in water, after learning that you CANT swim, sparks is green, and if you fall again sparks is gone, another slash and you die.
and then you have a chest with a extra life next to pool in the laberitn,
it blows my mind now as and adult how well they crafted that. i could go on and on, with the next hubs but that would take too long
I know that the Comet Observatory isn't a particularly expensive hub but it'll always be one of my favorite for reasons I can't explain. I just adore the vibes there
Always happy to see you upload a new video!! I had a lot of fun in Sunshine's hub.
Disappointed that Banjo-Kazooie wasn't even mentioned. It's the first game I think of when I think of hib worlds.
I will say that AC: Valhalla has a great sense of community with Ravensthorpe acting as a HUB world with agency. Talking to everyone there really gives you the urgency to build their posts to use their services. Initially you expect to have everything at the ready, but actually having to meet and build these relationships feels exciting and organic.
I genuinely love the House of Hades. It never feels like a run is wasted, from learning enemy attack patterns and gathering more resources to learning character's backstories and gathering more lore. Live or die, I still get something from it, and the House of Hades plays a large part in all of that.
Mario 64 is still king for me. I've never seen another hub half as surprising and mysterious as Peach's Castle. It constantly plays with your expectations and makes you say, "Wait, what?"
Beat the first Bowser, get the key, go to open the obvious door with the keyhole that's been teasing you for the whole game, and it says, no no, that's for the basement. "Wait, what? There's a basement??"
Chase after the rabbit in the basement, miss and bonk a wall, only to see it ripple. "Wait, what? That's a level??"
Get to the final Bowser door, get told you don't have enough stars, but it opens anyway? "Wait, what? Is this a bug?" Which is of course followed by an even bigger "Wait, WHAT??" moments later.
Sunshine didn't really have anything like this, so I was surprised this video said it did exploration better.
@@tvoyager7 I have. Grunty's lair was much bigger, but it didn't have anywhere near that weirdness and creativity. Plus it was annoying to navigate.
A really good way to design a hub world is have levels based around certain abilities and having mini challenges in front of the entrance to make sure you have a grasp on the move and alongside the exploration and secrets that also revolve around the abilities you gain during the adventure
Bastion's hub is what sticks to my memory.
Gruntilda’s Lair.
The way the orchestration of the overworld theme would change to foreshadow the level you were approaching.
I really like the hub worlds in Sonic Unleashed, the characters in it have their own developing stories, which helps to sell the world of unleashed.
I think the stage select hub world is a bit much and makes getting to new levels a bit of a chore, but they act as a good way to teach you how to use new abilities you get as you progress through the game.
If the hubs for each country were combined in some way and if they had a more efficient way of getting to other countries, Sonic Unleashed would have some of my favourite hub worlds.
Suikoden should get a special mention in this category, since the gameplay and storyline is revolves a lot around your HUB, that is the town/castle that you improve upon as you gather more and more allies. A Hub world that really shaped the story would be Chrono Trigger's place beyond time. You can even cause a different ending based on what you choose to do in that hub world.
My fav hub will always be Bugs Bunny Lost in Time. It was able to hint you what the level may be about, and it made you jump back and forth from more sub-hub worlds
In DA:Inquisition i would walk away from characters without saying goodbye or ending the conversation, at one point when i walked away one of the npcs said "...and there he goes." And i lost it laughing, it felt so real and fit with how id behaved 😂