@@raziel_malice Every single cutscene with Zovall it always zooms in on his nipples and his face looks like dr evil so alot of people have come to call him Dr Evil Nipples
Also let's wind it back a little: Vyranoth heard Alexstrasza from inside her prison. As in she was concious on some level. Concious for 20,000 years. No wonder the Incarnates are pissed as hell.
Yeah in my mind I think this is just crazy they really upped their game a little bit to have someone to be this powerful like that I'm really starting to not like the Titans to be honest I never liked them to begin with because how can I say they bring order when they just let everything fall into chaos literally was with sargeras than a few Titan keepers and now and now this
@@Servellion I found his ramblings mostly unintelligible. I guess he wants to know what Azeroth would have turned out like, if they had just left it to the old gods. 🙄
She does? Ysera is her sister. She considered Malegos to be a friend. Neltharion was not only a friend but a close advisor. Norz is the last aspect left and he is also her friend.
Her friends are stabbing her in the back and she’s forgiving them like a naive codger. She needs to learn that there are lives that cannot be saved and must be put to death. She did it with Malygos and she did it with Neltharion.
Its kind of crazy to think about the fact that these are two mothers talking about their children in this conversation. The writing has gotten so much better.
Iridikron and Vyranoth are hands down the best characters to come out of Dragonflight. Both so complex and intriguing! I’m beyond excited to see where Blizzard decides to take their storylines. (I’m trying to stay positive they won’t butcher the storylines like they did in the previous two expansions)
@@uuamenator I guess with Iridikron there’s no other option, hopefully they will keep him for at least one more expansion. But for some reason I’d like to see Vyranoth redeemed and possibly joining the aspects as a leader representing the non-Order corrupted dragonflight.
Yup, I'm just sad that Raszageth feels wasted in comparison, she was the "poster child" of the Primal Incarnates, even was in the 2nd CGI trailer, and yet we barely got any time with her and didn't even get to see her in her visage form
I feel people don't give Verynoth enough credit. She's the only one who seems to care about the dragonkind and grief about her sister's death when Idikron only wants revenge and Farrak wants to destroy everyting. She is apparently mastermind behind the most operations, her elementals attacked the emerald dream so we sacrificed malfurion, she was the one who figured out where Abberus was, her element was taking over azeroth when we saw timeline where incarnates won. Which I also like in her, she clearly has slightly sadistic side like Razageth which makes her character even more interesting.
She lost her children to the Titans and she acknowledges that she has become vengeful to Alexstraza. I believe Alexstraza's fall will be caused when she attempts to save Vyranoth and the Primalists from the Titans' wrath. Iridikron and Xalatath are working to steal Azeroth's World Soul, bait the Titans to Azeroth, and attack them. Sargeras might be freed in the process considering how the Old Gods learned how to break themselves out of Titan prisons.
I disagree, because Vyranoth didn't embraced the war, Iridikron did, and Vyranoth doesn't make bargains, only Iridikron does, and for the record the reason why both Nozdormu and Alexstrasza are concerned about Iridikron is because they fear that he will become just like Galakrond only much more worse.
@@ryankwon8785I still don't believe that Alexstraza will fall. Simply because there is no one who could replace her. Chromie could become Aspect instead of Nozdormu, the other 3 flights already have new leaders. But who could replace Alex?
@@nicolasritzke1042 That. We have to see one day. The original aspects are falling. Ebonhorn replaced Neltharion. Kalecgos replaced Malygos. Merithra replaced Ysera. Chromie might replace Norzdormu. For Alexstraza, who knows? Alexstraza sacrificing herself to save Vyranoth will be the nail to convince the Primal Incarnate to escape vengeance and see that the Dragonflights have truly changed and are no longer Titan fanatics.
Man, Dragonflight has been great storywise so far! These more down to earth (azeroth?) themes have been great to flesh out and the writing team is killing it!
@BirthofEcstasy Normal people quit their job when they don't like their coworkers, they don't quit their entire life. I'm not saying all actions were justified, but I question the way it's portrayed, as if a normal girl was pushed to suicide. I think she was probably abnormal.
It's interesting that changing dragon eggs into something else before they hatch is consistently considered so awful for dragonkind, as was the case when the red dragonflight were messing with black dragon eggs and when Deathwing and his children were experimenting on eggs. Every egg that isn't 'pure', i.e alligned with a specific form of power, seems to result in the dragons inside eventually going omni-cidally insane. Basically EVERY other race on Azeroth has been messed with by the titans, the fel, the light, the void, or the old gods far more. So rather than it being a particularly perverse anomaly it now seems like it might be because the original instance of this occurring was so traumatic that it scarred dragonkind on a practically genetic level.
Glad someone else noticed how important these lines are. Alex claiming she regrets the Orderfying of the eggs is interesting, indeed. I wonder if she means it. Her eggs were experimented on too, so I feel as though she's speaking truthfully there, but Vyranoth doesn't believe her.
@@monkeysk8er33 Me personally I don’t understand the stay pure concept from Vyranoth, things change and adapt if it were to keep the same then nothing would last for long. I mean she let herself be a hypocrite by binding herself to the elements which is the same as being changed by the Order Magic of Titans
@@darkarcheosI think it’s the morality of “orderifying” or giving the eggs the titan influence against their will or to not have a choice in the matter is what pisses vyranoth most
@@darkarcheosas was pointed out by Nathan in the comment above me, the eggs didn't have a choice. Thats like a father deciding that the child is going to be baptized and become a priest while it's still in the womb and going against the mother's wishes.
Probably some of the best antagonists from Blizzard in some time! Finally a villain that isn't cut-and-dry evil or genocidal! I almost want to take HER side!
@@equalizer-pw2uzMaybe, but Blizzard was (is?) often so bad at depicting that. Illidan & Kael were wasted in TBC. Deathwing was simply portrayed as "evil & insane" without nuances. Garrosh became "evil" just because. Don't get me started on Sylvanas & The Jailer. I believe our memories are still fresh regarding that. I'm fine with figures like the Old Gods, Queen Azshara, Denathrius & the dreadlords, and other maniacs being "just evil" with no redemption. However, it's silly to make all the antagonists like that. Those special evils should be limited people.
I like how this also sets up an eventual face turn for Vyranoth, or at least a redemption. She always seemed like the most reasonable of the 4 Primal Incarnates.
Second comment: Seeing this after listening to War of the Scaleborn hits different. The fact Vyranoth isn't trying to tear Alexstrazsa's head off is testament to her restraint.
Imagine.... if we had this kind of storytelling, villians and character development(still could be better, but in wow standards, its good) in shadowlands.... Shadowlands was full of potential, but it was made ''filler'' expansion.
Shadowlands was rushed and after the initial negative reaction i think they just abandoned it and did only the bar minimum and nothing to fill in the gaps which where cut short
I disagree, as soon as the premise of Shadowlands was announced I knew it was going to irrevocably screw up the lore. I had no idea that it would go on to do much worse than that
The story here seems a bit odd at face value. We know that Proto-Drakes were the base form, the original (refering to the aspects before titan magic). Alex condems the titans actions, which is... very odd, considering how much she cherrishes Tyr and the things he has done. Yeah, it's possible she considers it one step much too far, though that still feels off considering nigh everyone's overwhelming belief in the titans. And then there's Vyranoth - an incarnate who scrutinises their blind devotion and apparent corruption (figure of speech) forced upon their eggs by the titans. Meanwhile, her forces are imbuing stolen eggs with elemental powers, arguably just another form of the same old problem: changing the dragons in their shell. It's not badly written imo, it just doesn't have enough detail to push past that air of hypocracy, for example by Alex confronting the primalist'd actions and Vyranoth replying they "have to do what's necessary because their hand was forced".
Addendum: It's also quite interesting to see, from our PoV as children of order (aka. mortal races influenced by the titans), how Vyranoth considers the new dragons "warped" when, for all accounts they don't behave much different. Given her position though, it does make sense.
From what I understand what the primalists are doing is cleansing the eggs of the taint/corruption of the titans. Way back in the day Dragons were, in essence, elementals.
This is a sibling argument. Vyranoth was angry that Alexstraza did nothing as the Titans reshaped their homes, forced their new edicts on the dragons, suppressing their free will, and warping (brainwashing) the proto-dragons babies (still in their eggshells) into dragons of the dragonflights. Also, the conversation hints that the last straw for Vyranoth in joining Iridirkon was when her children, perhaps Iridikrons' as well, became brainwashed titan-loving dragonflights. Imagine the pain of seeing your own child be brainwashed into servants of aliens who merely want to secure Azeroth's World Soul for themselves. I think Alexstraza's fall will be when she saves the Primalists, including Vyranoth, from the Titans' wrath. Iridikron and Xalatath are working to steal Azeroth's World Soul, bait the Titans to Azeroth, and attack them. Sargeras might be freed in the process considering how the Old Gods learned how to break themselves out of Titan prisons. Although the Titans are powerful, freeing Sargeras will probably be the opportunity to weaken the Titans before the Void and the Old Gods strike the final blow. There are also theories that Iridikron is manipulating the Light and the Void but is currently using the Light as his power amplifier. We can see Iridikron and his powers have Light-related powers and aura. This will be a nice twist to how Neltharion is an Agent of the Void while Iridikron is an "Agent of the Light".
It'd be absolutely hilarious if it turned out Iridikron turned out to be smarter than the Jailer "I've manipulated everything since the start" Zovaal in the fraction of the time he's been around.
The thing is, what would you have Alexstraza do, especially if it was we either manipulate them or we destroy them? Go against the planet sized dude who ripped off an old god from azeroth like a tick? You witness that and then that guy turns to you and says jump, you jump.
Oh for the love of Pete! What part of the Old Gods and the Void Lords are the one true threat do those delusional numbskulled Proto-dragons do not understand?!
Vyranoth will defo be redeemed in the next patch, Fyrakk will most likely start to burn the new world tree but she'll freeze the flames and turn on him, killing each other in the process
Why? She lost everything, this new world is a mockery of everything she lost, her enemies rule the world, she is right revenge is the only thing she still has. so why will she betray her brother?
Perhaps corrupt her eggs just like the Titans did but even worse than shaping them into something more vile for Iridikron could do for the sake of vengeance
I am still hoping Vyranoth will see reason and abandon Iridikron. Just this cutscene alone makes her feel like the most reasonable of the Incarnates. One that would actually do some good, if given the chance.
That's exactly why she should remain a villain. WoW deserves a villain who is the hero of their own story, and the players should be able to see that and feel conflicted about it even as they stop her. There's a reason why Emet-Selch is so beloved by the FFXIV community, and it's because he's a villain whose motivations are clear and sympathetic, but he remains a villain we have to ultimately stop.
@@MarkZeroGaming But then she has to die. And this is a selfish reason but hey, it's honest. I don't want Vyranoth to die, it doesn't feel right. Plus I don't think Blizzard could pull that off if they made her a villain. Because there's also the "vengeance is all there is left" line that hints as to where she would go if she became a fully-fledged villain. Yet another vengeance-fueled bad guy unable to see when they are going too far and defeating the purpose of their cause. I guess if they can pull that off without killing her would make me happy. But that's an even taller order for Blizzard's writers than what you suggest.
@@MrBern-ex3wq Eh, vengeance-fueled bad guys are kinda WoW's thing. But there are ways to do that in different flavors. Making their vengeance sympathetic, making them aware of the cost, having it clearly wear on them and showing them reminding themselves why their ends justify their means. Etc. Also not every villain's defeat has to end in death. Maybe a defeated Vyranoth will be shown mercy by Alexstrazsa. Maybe her path of vengeance will end with reasoning instead of death. WoW does seem to want to move in a direction of "power of friendship" over conflict and death lately, so who knows? But what WoW truly needs are villains who are _clearly villains_ and will not be swayed from that until being defeated (or not swayed at all), and are written in a way that makes players subconsciously root for them/get attached to them while still knowing they have to be stopped. You need villains who you're sad to see go when you beat them. You'll remember those.
@@MarkZeroGaming Okay I don't mind if defeat is what it takes to make Vyranoth change her ways. As long as she does not die. She's got the makings of too good a character to die.
@@MarkZeroGamingAgree, There are villains that must remain as villains, because of their character and aura as villains. Because they know how to be a reasonable villain.
Perhaps this is setting alex turning to the version that tyr fought, but i was shocked to hear alex say that it was abhorrent to give Titans gift to her brood despite all these years bring a paragon leader
I guess a lot of the conext is missing until the book comes out -_- Still it's like the civilisation vs barbarians argument would you rather enjoy culture or a primal fight for survival?
@@teacoon6399 But the Primals aren't vying for coinciding with Dragons, but that only Protodrakes should live, no Titan influence. The argument on choice of being a Protodrake vs a Dragon is valid, but their choice of execution is literally genocide
Can Alexstrasza PLEASE just do something other than standing around mopping?! Like wtf happened?! She was a badass at the start of this xpac, & now she hasn't really done anything for the last 3 patches...
They're doing each Dragonflight Storyline in turn. Black Dragons were in Abberus. Blue had the long questline to regather themselves. Bronze have the mega dungeon. Green will be the next patch defending the new World Tree. And the Red with Alexstrazsa, will probably be in the last patch, against the Void.
I mean there is a difference between being a bad ass and fighting random enemies threatening your world and having to like murder your family/friends ina civil war like manner. Why wouldn't she have more depth to her and show FEELINGS.
This could be the purest form of a conversation for vengeance. The pureness of dragon kind is beyond elves, dwarves, taurens ... yet that doesn't mean they are pure. Great episode though!
Ok. If the titans didn't interfere at all just ignore the Azeroth. Then will there be a future all dragon kind? If the titans left azeroth to the Old gods will there be a sense of freedom then? To be frank the titans wants to awaken all slumbering titans at the same time they wanted to shape the universe in order and give life a chance to it's habitants. I still believe that the incarnate dragons are blind if they believe if it's better to be under a rule of the old gods than the titans. I read all Warcraft chronicles. And titans didn't do anything wrong except just gathering the slumbering titans.
Small correction, they aren’t gathering “slumbering titans” they are after “world souls” and lately it’s been speculated that world souls can be imbued with any comic force, not just Order. Which would mean the Titan’s are effectively only so caring about Azeroth because there’s a massive cosmic arms race for these world souls going on behind the scenes.
@@thebluebisharp3452 The World Souls are Titans, so it's reasonable that decent Titans raise them, rather than murderers amongst their own kind, and malevolent aliens like the old gods.
@@thebluebisharp3452and yet only one of them turn aganist that path. Before their objective was indeed gather all their kin from slumbering. Once they awaken their fellow titan they intend leave that world alone unharmed. The incarnate is indeed right about one thing the titans should stop meddling with the destiny of worlds but at the same time their is a reason why they exist so they can protect the universe from more powerful foe such the Void lords or the demons.
The Primalists as a whole still bug TF out of me (*), but I fall more and more in love with the Incarnates every time they come onscreen. *: Where did they come from? Why do they hate the Titans (not that I necessarily blame them)? How did they find out about a prison containing a dragon that had been erased from history thousands of years before the Elves evolved as a species and on an island that hadn't been seen since the War of the Ancients?
Same place where all dragons were born as protodrakes. They hate the titans cause they believed nature should not be forced to change to the will of a cosmic force forcefully like the titans did to the protodrakes removing any free will. Thanks to the Primalist leader a Grimtotem leader who first freed Raz was discovered in some archives
I would guess they didn't do a good enough job erasing them from history. The bulk of the primalists are shamans and as such are connected to the elements. I would assume that the Elemental Lords have knowledge of the Primal Incarnates.
I agree where they came from hasn't been well established, but there's some info in one of the Adamanthia messages you can find in the vaults that mentions Raszageth was imprisoned fully conscious and could still control the storms around the Forgotten Reach. It mentions that because of this Adamanthia was worried she might eventually be able to get a message out to someone.
The cutscenes are mostly good. Sadly most of the expac has this fake, giddy disney feeling about it. Hanging around in outland or northrend feels carthartic after questing in the live zones
Still more questions then answers. I like how we never heard of the Aspects “forcing” the Titan mandate on other dragons until DF. They even retconned Deathwing to make it so he willingly accepted the Old God power because even he felt the Titan mandate was a burden, not simply just corrupted by the Void
But it was a burden to him though, it was said in old lore that neltharion felt the whole weight of azeroth on his shoulders as aspect of the earth, kinda like the greek god Atlas (there is a reference to this in aberus, just before you encounter sarkerath). And it was this burden that made him succumb to the whispers of the old gods.
@@ddaavvee95510 it was never stated to be a burden on him until DF. Originally it was just his close proximity to the Old Gods that led to his corruption. His lair was deep in the earth and he regularly spent time underground I.E closer to the Old God’s prisons
Is blizzard painting the titans as the baddies? That’s what it feels like to me. I’d be fine with that tbh where some villains aren’t as clear cut BBEGs. Someone, I think Nobbel, has a video about how Odin does some real bad stuff. And it’s not like blizzard hasn’t retconned a character from a previous expansion to be completely different in a more recent one.
Wasn't so much that - It was because they removed their primordial & elemental energies along with probably other various paths their kind had, replacing them all with order. In a sense, they enacted the goal of genocide to all of dragonkind (Proto or otherwise, prior to 'Gift') with intelligence - Even those still within eggs, whether the parents agreed or not.
It's around the zone that unfroze the eonar named one, nozdormu gives you the quest to find alexstrasza because she left the seat of the aspect and he's concerned for her
Thaldraszus, Eon's Fringe is where Nozdormu appears I think you need to do the quests leading up to the zone, and he sends you find Alexstrasza, it's pretty much at the start before you even start doing things with Chromie if I remember correctly
I wonder if the primalists are mad because order magic's mind controll capeabilities and the potential of the titans pulling an order 66, in that case Vyranoth's anger is more than justified and Alexstrasza lies to herself too, the Titans do the same thing with her as the orcs did,force her and her kind to breed slaves, just keep them in a larger prison. Is this a truly layered conflict or I'm reading a little too much into it, this so far feels like 2 flawed but morally good individuals trying their best, even if its vengeance
@@teacoon6399 I mean Wrathion's no saint either. "Yo, ditch the kids and the unborn despite the Primalists invading, and help me kill some elemental giants so I can reclaim an abandoned keep ... No!? How dare you?!" - I mean Sabellian was right, Wrathion is childishly reckless, impatient & thoughtless a lot of times. lol
Vyranoth is a mother in grief!! She is going to bring havoc and she will be just!!! Alexstrasza might gave up on her children cause she was force to mate and give birth!!
Vyranoth is a surprisingly complex character. I thought she was going to end up as some basic noble heart among evil villains who betrays them in the end because though they're her friends they've also grown dark. But no, and I'm loving it. She genuinely hates Alexstrasza for what she did to her and the other Incarnates but she doesn't exactly seem buddy-buddy with the Incarnates either considering Fyrakk's little meltdown after kidnapping a green dragon. I like to think that she sees the Incarnates as business partners or just allies rather than family.
This aged poorly. Immediately after this conversation, Vyranoth practically instantly betrays Fyrakk for the exact reasons you've stated. And not only that, but she _helps Alexstrasza._
I can already feel that killing Vyranoth is going to be painful emotionally even though we only met her this xpac (unless they pull some kind of redemption arc on her, which...i really hope they don't)
In 2 minutes we learn more about Vyranoth and why she's mad than we got with 2 years with Dr evil nipples.
😂😂😂who lmfao
@@raziel_malice The Jailer
@@raziel_malice Every single cutscene with Zovall it always zooms in on his nipples and his face looks like dr evil so alot of people have come to call him Dr Evil Nipples
stop crying about 3 years ago lol.. enjoy it..
@@erikaw7767 3 years? Shadowlands ended less than a year ago
Also let's wind it back a little: Vyranoth heard Alexstrasza from inside her prison. As in she was concious on some level. Concious for 20,000 years. No wonder the Incarnates are pissed as hell.
This also means that they heard every second of us killing Raszageth, and possibly even seeing us depending on how conscious they really were.
Damn.
Yeah in my mind I think this is just crazy they really upped their game a little bit to have someone to be this powerful like that I'm really starting to not like the Titans to be honest I never liked them to begin with because how can I say they bring order when they just let everything fall into chaos literally was with sargeras than a few Titan keepers and now and now this
@@christianscott1229 wth are you on about?
@@Servellion I found his ramblings mostly unintelligible.
I guess he wants to know what Azeroth would have turned out like, if they had just left it to the old gods. 🙄
@@Servellion He's doubting the titans being the all-seeing all-benevolent beings they're usually depicted as
Vyranoth voice actress is killing here
Who is the voice actress?
@@cameronmcewen9666 I'm like 90% sure it's Genevieve O'Reilly, who also voiced Moira in OW2
@@kalty waitt what!! omg
@@kaltysounds like her, i absolutely love love LOVE her
Alexstrasza has suprisingly a lot of "dearest friends".
That happens when you are programmed by the literal incarnation of life to care about all life.
She does? Ysera is her sister. She considered Malegos to be a friend. Neltharion was not only a friend but a close advisor. Norz is the last aspect left and he is also her friend.
She was pretty damn friendly before she became the aspect of life. She was probably chosen for that reason.
Her friends are stabbing her in the back and she’s forgiving them like a naive codger. She needs to learn that there are lives that cannot be saved and must be put to death. She did it with Malygos and she did it with Neltharion.
@@odst123451 Huh?
They were created from scratch.
It's within Alex's "DNA" to care about living things and to hesitate a FUCKTON about taking a life.
Refreshing to see that hero and villain can converse calmly and coherently...
The hero is older than the mortal races, yet she’s naive.
Its kind of crazy to think about the fact that these are two mothers talking about their children in this conversation. The writing has gotten so much better.
it really is not but, ill give it to you that is cool
@@ironic8340 lol "While they warped our children still in the shell." Is a direct quote.
@@squishedmoofin7173 no no, I am referring about the quality of writing
@@ironic8340 Aaah then I think thats more of a matter of opinion and yours is valid~
Iridikron and Vyranoth are hands down the best characters to come out of Dragonflight. Both so complex and intriguing! I’m beyond excited to see where Blizzard decides to take their storylines. (I’m trying to stay positive they won’t butcher the storylines like they did in the previous two expansions)
They will probably die in a raid.
Well, at least they don't have a storywriter bailing halfway through and leaving the story half-done this time!
@@uuamenator I guess with Iridikron there’s no other option, hopefully they will keep him for at least one more expansion. But for some reason I’d like to see Vyranoth redeemed and possibly joining the aspects as a leader representing the non-Order corrupted dragonflight.
raszageth and fyrakk would've been a chaotic duo
Yup, I'm just sad that Raszageth feels wasted in comparison, she was the "poster child" of the Primal Incarnates, even was in the 2nd CGI trailer, and yet we barely got any time with her and didn't even get to see her in her visage form
I feel people don't give Verynoth enough credit. She's the only one who seems to care about the dragonkind and grief about her sister's death when Idikron only wants revenge and Farrak wants to destroy everyting. She is apparently mastermind behind the most operations, her elementals attacked the emerald dream so we sacrificed malfurion, she was the one who figured out where Abberus was, her element was taking over azeroth when we saw timeline where incarnates won. Which I also like in her, she clearly has slightly sadistic side like Razageth which makes her character even more interesting.
She lost her children to the Titans and she acknowledges that she has become vengeful to Alexstraza. I believe Alexstraza's fall will be caused when she attempts to save Vyranoth and the Primalists from the Titans' wrath. Iridikron and Xalatath are working to steal Azeroth's World Soul, bait the Titans to Azeroth, and attack them. Sargeras might be freed in the process considering how the Old Gods learned how to break themselves out of Titan prisons.
I disagree, because Vyranoth didn't embraced the war, Iridikron did, and Vyranoth doesn't make bargains, only Iridikron does, and for the record the reason why both Nozdormu and Alexstrasza are concerned about Iridikron is because they fear that he will become just like Galakrond only much more worse.
@@ryankwon8785I still don't believe that Alexstraza will fall. Simply because there is no one who could replace her. Chromie could become Aspect instead of Nozdormu, the other 3 flights already have new leaders. But who could replace Alex?
@@nicolasritzke1042does she has a consort? Maybe him?
@@nicolasritzke1042 That. We have to see one day. The original aspects are falling. Ebonhorn replaced Neltharion. Kalecgos replaced Malygos. Merithra replaced Ysera. Chromie might replace Norzdormu. For Alexstraza, who knows?
Alexstraza sacrificing herself to save Vyranoth will be the nail to convince the Primal Incarnate to escape vengeance and see that the Dragonflights have truly changed and are no longer Titan fanatics.
Man, Dragonflight has been great storywise so far! These more down to earth (azeroth?) themes have been great to flesh out and the writing team is killing it!
lol.
@BirthofEcstasy
Normal people quit their job when they don't like their coworkers, they don't quit their entire life.
I'm not saying all actions were justified, but I question the way it's portrayed, as if a normal girl was pushed to suicide. I think she was probably abnormal.
It's interesting that changing dragon eggs into something else before they hatch is consistently considered so awful for dragonkind, as was the case when the red dragonflight were messing with black dragon eggs and when Deathwing and his children were experimenting on eggs. Every egg that isn't 'pure', i.e alligned with a specific form of power, seems to result in the dragons inside eventually going omni-cidally insane.
Basically EVERY other race on Azeroth has been messed with by the titans, the fel, the light, the void, or the old gods far more. So rather than it being a particularly perverse anomaly it now seems like it might be because the original instance of this occurring was so traumatic that it scarred dragonkind on a practically genetic level.
Glad someone else noticed how important these lines are. Alex claiming she regrets the Orderfying of the eggs is interesting, indeed. I wonder if she means it. Her eggs were experimented on too, so I feel as though she's speaking truthfully there, but Vyranoth doesn't believe her.
@@monkeysk8er33 Me personally I don’t understand the stay pure concept from Vyranoth, things change and adapt if it were to keep the same then nothing would last for long. I mean she let herself be a hypocrite by binding herself to the elements which is the same as being changed by the Order Magic of Titans
@@darkarcheosI think it’s the morality of “orderifying” or giving the eggs the titan influence against their will or to not have a choice in the matter is what pisses vyranoth most
@@darkarcheosas was pointed out by Nathan in the comment above me, the eggs didn't have a choice. Thats like a father deciding that the child is going to be baptized and become a priest while it's still in the womb and going against the mother's wishes.
Think forcing circumcising an infant that cannot object which will cause physical and mental scarring.
I want more about Vyranoth, honestly.
The honey/poison line was pretty good. It's odd to see quality writing coming from Blizzard teams.
Probably stole it from an anime
All the time, you people just seem too stupid to understand anything that isn't as clear as that.
@@christianhorton9546 Yeah, no surprise that you people think animes got good writing. Here and there maybe, but the majority is absolute bullshit.
@@miriamweller812 You make me want to cry that is (in my opinion) kinda cruel but even so I do respect your opinion!
@miriamweller812 is still better writing than what blizzard can come up with!
the animation is getting really up there. top notch
Bro its 2023 what are you talking about ?
@BirthofEcstasy this ain't a cinematic, it's an in-game cutscene.
bro excited about pnj's barely moving their hands in 2023 , y'all need to play some other games LMAO
@@kingwou On a game running on a 2004 engine. It is impressive, really.
Holy crap, the “you heard me?” Really got me. Imagine 20 thousand years trapped in a pokeball inside a cave while being conscious and unable to move…
Bro I am still waiting for a cinematic like this between Alexstrasza and Ysera 😭
Just until she can return to Ardenweald and pass the torch to Merithra.
I love them! The VA’s were fantastic❤️💙 Especially love Vyranoth in this
Probably some of the best antagonists from Blizzard in some time!
Finally a villain that isn't cut-and-dry evil or genocidal! I almost want to take HER side!
????????????????????????
vast majority of wow antagonists are those "misunderstood "heroes""
@@equalizer-pw2uz
"This entire city must be purged."
@@equalizer-pw2uzMaybe, but Blizzard was (is?) often so bad at depicting that.
Illidan & Kael were wasted in TBC. Deathwing was simply portrayed as "evil & insane" without nuances. Garrosh became "evil" just because. Don't get me started on Sylvanas & The Jailer. I believe our memories are still fresh regarding that.
I'm fine with figures like the Old Gods, Queen Azshara, Denathrius & the dreadlords, and other maniacs being "just evil" with no redemption. However, it's silly to make all the antagonists like that. Those special evils should be limited people.
I like how this also sets up an eventual face turn for Vyranoth, or at least a redemption. She always seemed like the most reasonable of the 4 Primal Incarnates.
She doesn’t need to. The dragon flights are wrong.
the point is why she need redemption? she is the Victim here
She is right, the titans sucks
I hope vyranoth lives and becomes a powerful ally
All the "she" must be redeemed, they are victims.
Imagine if we got Old Soldier style fully rendered cinematics about these two throughout this expansion
Why aren’t we getting more of those? We never got to see Jaina in any cinematics.
Second comment: Seeing this after listening to War of the Scaleborn hits different. The fact Vyranoth isn't trying to tear Alexstrazsa's head off is testament to her restraint.
Feels like we are cleaning up the past and setting and preparing the stage for something new.
Wow, great twist and solid dialog too. Nice work WoW team.
artists are about to go buckwild with these two
pfft
Imagine.... if we had this kind of storytelling, villians and character development(still could be better, but in wow standards, its good) in shadowlands.... Shadowlands was full of potential, but it was made ''filler'' expansion.
Shadowlands was rushed and after the initial negative reaction i think they just abandoned it and did only the bar minimum and nothing to fill in the gaps which where cut short
I disagree, as soon as the premise of Shadowlands was announced I knew it was going to irrevocably screw up the lore. I had no idea that it would go on to do much worse than that
SL is not a filler expansion. It was however a bad expansion
Wtf are yall talking about? This is still terrible.
It wasn’t a filler. It just had too many story issues. Chief among them being the Jailer’s endgame.
The story here seems a bit odd at face value. We know that Proto-Drakes were the base form, the original (refering to the aspects before titan magic). Alex condems the titans actions, which is... very odd, considering how much she cherrishes Tyr and the things he has done. Yeah, it's possible she considers it one step much too far, though that still feels off considering nigh everyone's overwhelming belief in the titans.
And then there's Vyranoth - an incarnate who scrutinises their blind devotion and apparent corruption (figure of speech) forced upon their eggs by the titans. Meanwhile, her forces are imbuing stolen eggs with elemental powers, arguably just another form of the same old problem: changing the dragons in their shell.
It's not badly written imo, it just doesn't have enough detail to push past that air of hypocracy, for example by Alex confronting the primalist'd actions and Vyranoth replying they "have to do what's necessary because their hand was forced".
Addendum: It's also quite interesting to see, from our PoV as children of order (aka. mortal races influenced by the titans), how Vyranoth considers the new dragons "warped" when, for all accounts they don't behave much different. Given her position though, it does make sense.
From what I understand what the primalists are doing is cleansing the eggs of the taint/corruption of the titans. Way back in the day Dragons were, in essence, elementals.
@@kayschut9327 No, they are doing it to proto-dragon eggs too.
If you expect logic and coherency in story, world and building, retil WoW is not the game you looking for.
Where is this cutscene? Like after what quest or dungeon?
This is a sibling argument. Vyranoth was angry that Alexstraza did nothing as the Titans reshaped their homes, forced their new edicts on the dragons, suppressing their free will, and warping (brainwashing) the proto-dragons babies (still in their eggshells) into dragons of the dragonflights. Also, the conversation hints that the last straw for Vyranoth in joining Iridirkon was when her children, perhaps Iridikrons' as well, became brainwashed titan-loving dragonflights. Imagine the pain of seeing your own child be brainwashed into servants of aliens who merely want to secure Azeroth's World Soul for themselves. I think Alexstraza's fall will be when she saves the Primalists, including Vyranoth, from the Titans' wrath.
Iridikron and Xalatath are working to steal Azeroth's World Soul, bait the Titans to Azeroth, and attack them. Sargeras might be freed in the process considering how the Old Gods learned how to break themselves out of Titan prisons. Although the Titans are powerful, freeing Sargeras will probably be the opportunity to weaken the Titans before the Void and the Old Gods strike the final blow. There are also theories that Iridikron is manipulating the Light and the Void but is currently using the Light as his power amplifier. We can see Iridikron and his powers have Light-related powers and aura. This will be a nice twist to how Neltharion is an Agent of the Void while Iridikron is an "Agent of the Light".
It'd be absolutely hilarious if it turned out Iridikron turned out to be smarter than the Jailer "I've manipulated everything since the start" Zovaal in the fraction of the time he's been around.
The thing is, what would you have Alexstraza do, especially if it was we either manipulate them or we destroy them? Go against the planet sized dude who ripped off an old god from azeroth like a tick? You witness that and then that guy turns to you and says jump, you jump.
Oh for the love of Pete! What part of the Old Gods and the Void Lords are the one true threat do those delusional numbskulled Proto-dragons do not understand?!
@@jefferykelsey Vyranoth said they don’t care anymore. They just want to the destroy the Titans. The rest is history.
There’s no securing Azeroth lol She’s legit a Titan. The most they were doing was ensuring she wouldn’t be corrupted
Vyranoth will defo be redeemed in the next patch, Fyrakk will most likely start to burn the new world tree but she'll freeze the flames and turn on him, killing each other in the process
Why? She lost everything, this new world is a mockery of everything she lost, her enemies rule the world, she is right revenge is the only thing she still has. so why will she betray her brother?
someone better pick up the phone cause this dude is calling it
I dont know, shed have to really change her mind after what she just said. I dont think she really cares about the new world tree
maybe yes.
@@rafaelsantos-nl9jddeath of more children. Her brother twisting them somehow himself. It’s possible they do this
Made me cry. Maybe I will try wow some time again
Just made my first Evoker. Man that storyline is so cool. Love working with the dragons.
I love these characters. so intriguing in a good for gaming way
"Whats happenin' to yee. Arthas... is vegence all thats important to yee?"
Vyr has a right to be pissed, but if there's only vengeance left... then why did she come to Alexstrasza?
I'm sorry if this is weird, but I absolutely love your song covers on your channel!
the anime looks like come out from Diseny
I figured this would happen at some point. I’m sure Iridikron is going to do something so bad that she changes her mind and joins us
Perhaps corrupt her eggs just like the Titans did but even worse than shaping them into something more vile for Iridikron could do for the sake of vengeance
Well….considering how the Tyr quest line went, I’m think Alexa is going to join them. Either willingly or unwillingly
@@loganlaslo8718I mean it was just some Void trickery to get us to doubt, right?
Right?
@@loganlaslo8718 I doupt blizz will be that balzy to 'sacrifice' Alex for better plot development.
@@Lionimia I mean they did burn down Teldrassil so who knows....
Bro WHAT i wasn’t ready for this
So that's why Vyranoth joined the Primalists...
Alexstrasza allowed the Titans to corrupt their eggs. Taking her children away.
I think I missed this in my playthrough.
Dang no scissoring dragon action? Must be next patch
r34 is your friend, go there instead
Bruh. Lay off the dopamine button in your pants a little if you can.
How do we see this cinematic in-game? What is the trigger, a quest?
I am still hoping Vyranoth will see reason and abandon Iridikron. Just this cutscene alone makes her feel like the most reasonable of the Incarnates. One that would actually do some good, if given the chance.
That's exactly why she should remain a villain. WoW deserves a villain who is the hero of their own story, and the players should be able to see that and feel conflicted about it even as they stop her. There's a reason why Emet-Selch is so beloved by the FFXIV community, and it's because he's a villain whose motivations are clear and sympathetic, but he remains a villain we have to ultimately stop.
@@MarkZeroGaming But then she has to die. And this is a selfish reason but hey, it's honest. I don't want Vyranoth to die, it doesn't feel right.
Plus I don't think Blizzard could pull that off if they made her a villain. Because there's also the "vengeance is all there is left" line that hints as to where she would go if she became a fully-fledged villain. Yet another vengeance-fueled bad guy unable to see when they are going too far and defeating the purpose of their cause.
I guess if they can pull that off without killing her would make me happy. But that's an even taller order for Blizzard's writers than what you suggest.
@@MrBern-ex3wq Eh, vengeance-fueled bad guys are kinda WoW's thing. But there are ways to do that in different flavors. Making their vengeance sympathetic, making them aware of the cost, having it clearly wear on them and showing them reminding themselves why their ends justify their means. Etc.
Also not every villain's defeat has to end in death. Maybe a defeated Vyranoth will be shown mercy by Alexstrazsa. Maybe her path of vengeance will end with reasoning instead of death. WoW does seem to want to move in a direction of "power of friendship" over conflict and death lately, so who knows?
But what WoW truly needs are villains who are _clearly villains_ and will not be swayed from that until being defeated (or not swayed at all), and are written in a way that makes players subconsciously root for them/get attached to them while still knowing they have to be stopped. You need villains who you're sad to see go when you beat them. You'll remember those.
@@MarkZeroGaming Okay I don't mind if defeat is what it takes to make Vyranoth change her ways. As long as she does not die. She's got the makings of too good a character to die.
@@MarkZeroGamingAgree, There are villains that must remain as villains, because of their character and aura as villains. Because they know how to be a reasonable villain.
are we the baddies
I haven't come across these cinematics yet, am I missing a questline someplace?
Perhaps this is setting alex turning to the version that tyr fought, but i was shocked to hear alex say that it was abhorrent to give Titans gift to her brood despite all these years bring a paragon leader
Nice idea to unite the dragon forces but maybe a bit late after us slaughtering all protos and Raszageth!?
I guess a lot of the conext is missing until the book comes out -_-
Still it's like the civilisation vs barbarians argument would you rather enjoy culture or a primal fight for survival?
True. Another "we did not ask the civilization to come, we enjoyed the dirt" type of argument
@@mimic8193But here’s the thing….them enjoying the dirt wasn’t harming anyone. There’s plenty of wild Proto-drakes left over and they live just fine.
@@teacoon6399 But the Primals aren't vying for coinciding with Dragons, but that only Protodrakes should live, no Titan influence. The argument on choice of being a Protodrake vs a Dragon is valid, but their choice of execution is literally genocide
@@teacoon6399 "There’s plenty of wild Proto-drakes left over and they live just fine."
Any of them save Azeroth from old gods or Sargeras?
Can Alexstrasza PLEASE just do something other than standing around mopping?! Like wtf happened?! She was a badass at the start of this xpac, & now she hasn't really done anything for the last 3 patches...
She is protecting the life pools, the most important place on the isles.
They're doing each Dragonflight Storyline in turn. Black Dragons were in Abberus. Blue had the long questline to regather themselves. Bronze have the mega dungeon. Green will be the next patch defending the new World Tree. And the Red with Alexstrazsa, will probably be in the last patch, against the Void.
I mean there is a difference between being a bad ass and fighting random enemies threatening your world and having to like murder your family/friends ina civil war like manner. Why wouldn't she have more depth to her and show FEELINGS.
@@Shredow2 Yes, but she's literally the QUEEN of the dragons... Yet she's done almost nothing this whole xpac...
@@Val_ayh She WAS injured in the fight with Rhazageth, you know.
This could be the purest form of a conversation for vengeance. The pureness of dragon kind is beyond elves, dwarves, taurens ... yet that doesn't mean they are pure. Great episode though!
Wow this conversation
I am with vyra on this one
Killer cut scene
Is this currently available in game? I don't think i found the questline
me neither
Hate me, but this is feels just randomly put in, without much context, for an upcoming huge retcon to the game.
When did this happen? I've never seen this cutscene in-game
Ok. If the titans didn't interfere at all just ignore the Azeroth. Then will there be a future all dragon kind? If the titans left azeroth to the Old gods will there be a sense of freedom then? To be frank the titans wants to awaken all slumbering titans at the same time they wanted to shape the universe in order and give life a chance to it's habitants. I still believe that the incarnate dragons are blind if they believe if it's better to be under a rule of the old gods than the titans. I read all Warcraft chronicles. And titans didn't do anything wrong except just gathering the slumbering titans.
Small correction, they aren’t gathering “slumbering titans” they are after “world souls” and lately it’s been speculated that world souls can be imbued with any comic force, not just Order. Which would mean the Titan’s are effectively only so caring about Azeroth because there’s a massive cosmic arms race for these world souls going on behind the scenes.
@@thebluebisharp3452
The World Souls are Titans, so it's reasonable that decent Titans raise them, rather than murderers amongst their own kind, and malevolent aliens like the old gods.
@@thebluebisharp3452and yet only one of them turn aganist that path. Before their objective was indeed gather all their kin from slumbering. Once they awaken their fellow titan they intend leave that world alone unharmed. The incarnate is indeed right about one thing the titans should stop meddling with the destiny of worlds but at the same time their is a reason why they exist so they can protect the universe from more powerful foe such the Void lords or the demons.
So what exactly am I missing here? The black empire was running rampant until the titans showed up.
Exactly. The Titans may have caused harm, but the measures they took were desperate.
Sooooo good
Where is this cinematic from? Which questline?
Vyranoth’s tone of voice sounds like a mixture of poison and seduction. “Slumbuuuh”. Cold as ice, slow to kill.
Well... at least they talked...
The Primalists as a whole still bug TF out of me (*), but I fall more and more in love with the Incarnates every time they come onscreen.
*: Where did they come from? Why do they hate the Titans (not that I necessarily blame them)? How did they find out about a prison containing a dragon that had been erased from history thousands of years before the Elves evolved as a species and on an island that hadn't been seen since the War of the Ancients?
Same place where all dragons were born as protodrakes. They hate the titans cause they believed nature should not be forced to change to the will of a cosmic force forcefully like the titans did to the protodrakes removing any free will. Thanks to the Primalist leader a Grimtotem leader who first freed Raz was discovered in some archives
I would guess they didn't do a good enough job erasing them from history. The bulk of the primalists are shamans and as such are connected to the elements. I would assume that the Elemental Lords have knowledge of the Primal Incarnates.
I agree where they came from hasn't been well established, but there's some info in one of the Adamanthia messages you can find in the vaults that mentions Raszageth was imprisoned fully conscious and could still control the storms around the Forgotten Reach. It mentions that because of this Adamanthia was worried she might eventually be able to get a message out to someone.
how did we get this cutscene? i could not find it
It’s nice to see nice animation once again. Last few years we got those awful ones.
The cutscenes are mostly good. Sadly most of the expac has this fake, giddy disney feeling about it. Hanging around in outland or northrend feels carthartic after questing in the live zones
Betrayal is looking a lot more likely now.
Will we see HD cinematics as the expansion moves? I remember back in BfA there were like 5 HD cinmeatics
I can't find this scene in game. When does It happen?
This is getting really intresting!
If this expansion goes down the route of 'The Titans are bad!' I will commit a bad time to myself.
Very nice cinematic...love it.
This is a scenario, not a cinematic.
Am I the only one who can hear Laura Bailey in Vyranoth's voice?
She kinda gave me Lilith vibes,except her voice is not that "dark". Even the lip close up was familiar, - "Silence is there judgement"
Where is this cinematic i think i missed it
The Eonar-Winter Queen moment we have at home
When you come out as a Bi and your ex is still lesbian.
Where can i find this cutscene in game?
Still more questions then answers. I like how we never heard of the Aspects “forcing” the Titan mandate on other dragons until DF. They even retconned Deathwing to make it so he willingly accepted the Old God power because even he felt the Titan mandate was a burden, not simply just corrupted by the Void
But it was a burden to him though, it was said in old lore that neltharion felt the whole weight of azeroth on his shoulders as aspect of the earth, kinda like the greek god Atlas (there is a reference to this in aberus, just before you encounter sarkerath). And it was this burden that made him succumb to the whispers of the old gods.
@@ddaavvee95510 it was never stated to be a burden on him until DF. Originally it was just his close proximity to the Old Gods that led to his corruption. His lair was deep in the earth and he regularly spent time underground I.E closer to the Old God’s prisons
Is blizzard painting the titans as the baddies? That’s what it feels like to me. I’d be fine with that tbh where some villains aren’t as clear cut BBEGs. Someone, I think Nobbel, has a video about how Odin does some real bad stuff. And it’s not like blizzard hasn’t retconned a character from a previous expansion to be completely different in a more recent one.
So what did the titans do to the eggs? turn them from proto-drake to normal dragon?
Wasn't so much that - It was because they removed their primordial & elemental energies along with probably other various paths their kind had, replacing them all with order.
In a sense, they enacted the goal of genocide to all of dragonkind (Proto or otherwise, prior to 'Gift') with intelligence - Even those still within eggs, whether the parents agreed or not.
@@Aussielight "other various paths their kind had"
What do you mean by that?
where does this cinematic happen? im sure i did everything in 10,1,5
Where/when does this cinematic actually play in-game?
where do you get this Quest?
What do you have to do to see this cutscene in game?
Rip my hopes for Ice dragussy cheeks 😩
Vyranoth *does* seem to be the more complex and interesting of the incarnates. All three of the others were pretty much just one-note LOL!Evil.
Vyranoth is such a tsundere it's hilarious. Wow lore has become a comedy show
what u have to do to see this in game?
Definintely got some Vox Machina vibe here.
Which questline leads to this? Is it the dungeon one?
It's around the zone that unfroze the eonar named one, nozdormu gives you the quest to find alexstrasza because she left the seat of the aspect and he's concerned for her
@@etain21918
what region in the dragon isles?
Thaldraszus, Eon's Fringe is where Nozdormu appears I think you need to do the quests leading up to the zone, and he sends you find Alexstrasza, it's pretty much at the start before you even start doing things with Chromie if I remember correctly
serisouly..does it seem like were the bad guys here..cause its really starting to feel like it.
I wonder if the primalists are mad because order magic's mind controll capeabilities and the potential of the titans pulling an order 66, in that case Vyranoth's anger is more than justified and Alexstrasza lies to herself too, the Titans do the same thing with her as the orcs did,force her and her kind to breed slaves, just keep them in a larger prison. Is this a truly layered conflict or I'm reading a little too much into it, this so far feels like 2 flawed but morally good individuals trying their best, even if its vengeance
no it was a lying.
And yet - Alexstraza had no trouble playing dragon eugenics on Wrathion. Everyone sucks
@@teacoon6399 I mean Wrathion's no saint either. "Yo, ditch the kids and the unborn despite the Primalists invading, and help me kill some elemental giants so I can reclaim an abandoned keep ... No!? How dare you?!" - I mean Sabellian was right, Wrathion is childishly reckless, impatient & thoughtless a lot of times. lol
Vyranoth is a mother in grief!! She is going to bring havoc and she will be just!!! Alexstrasza might gave up on her children cause she was force to mate and give birth!!
this used to be a very different game
I….wish….wow…::characters…..didnt….talk….like………….this
It’s the only way Blizzard knows how to convey that someone is wise and has lived for hundreds of years
how... Dare... YOU... Alexstrasza is... queen... of the DRAGONS...
@@defaultname7685 They... Have... To... Talk.. Like... Every... Word... Is... SUPER.... Enunciated... Because... Bullshit...
just talking and its so good
Camerawork (even though there's no cameras)
dragon eggs aren't real dragons right ??? crazy you can relate this to transgenderism in kids taught today or even abortion laws
where do i even find this cutscene in game
Vyranoth is a surprisingly complex character. I thought she was going to end up as some basic noble heart among evil villains who betrays them in the end because though they're her friends they've also grown dark. But no, and I'm loving it. She genuinely hates Alexstrasza for what she did to her and the other Incarnates but she doesn't exactly seem buddy-buddy with the Incarnates either considering Fyrakk's little meltdown after kidnapping a green dragon. I like to think that she sees the Incarnates as business partners or just allies rather than family.
This aged poorly.
Immediately after this conversation, Vyranoth practically instantly betrays Fyrakk for the exact reasons you've stated. And not only that, but she _helps Alexstrasza._
Where is this cinematic triggered?
I can already feel that killing Vyranoth is going to be painful emotionally even though we only met her this xpac (unless they pull some kind of redemption arc on her, which...i really hope they don't)
It would be lazy if they did.
Villains with actual personality and feelings? What kind of dark sorcery is this?