As an amateur producer, my best sounding drums, concrete floor, 6’ tall ceilings, Sm-57 on the ground next to the kick, Tascam 4-track, blew my mind and still does 20 years later. I still use them today in my hip-hop productions.
Correction: At 14:43 the mic over the bass drum and under the ride is NOT "parallel to kick head" as the caption says. It is horizontal, parallel with the kick drum shell (which is perpendicular to the kick head).
Summary of the sounds from different mic positions: 9:49 - Attendee Mic Position 1 10:05 - Attendee Mic Position 2 10:18 - Attendee Mic Position 3 10:27 - Attendee Mic Position 4 10:34 - Talk about the Attendee Mic Positions 11:22 - Repositoning "Attendee Mic Position 1" 12:46 - "Mic 4", which I guess = "Attendee Mic Position 1" ??? 13:05 - Repositioned "Mic 4" (balanced sound) 13:15 - Talk about Repositioned "Mic 4" 14:00 - Alternative Mic Position 1 14:20 - Alternative Mic Position 2 14:38 - Alternative Mic Position 3 15:07 - Alternative Mic Position 4
You know its crazy how much the room can impact the sound of cymbals. I've been gigging a lot recently and my two crash cymbals will take turns sounding extremely harsh depending on the room they are set up in. One night one will sound smooth and pleasant and the other will sound harsh, then vice versa. One is a 17" and one is 18"
A good tool to use is a video camera. Setup a camera that captures as much of the room as possible and walk around the room with the mike, placing it in different locations for 10 seconds at a time. Sync the microphone audio to the video and note the best sounding locations.
If I'm not mistaken, the goal was to pick the best mic position to capture a balanced sound of the entire drum kit. With out any preference, the clear definitive choice for me was at 14:20
One of my favourite drum sound on a song was recorded only with SM57s. And it was a world hit, and many people try to recreate the sound regardless their knowledge or lack of it about the microphones that were used.
Really informative !!! Best advice ever… walk around and listen; ears first brain next !!! I always feel like I’d like to coach drummers to play: two bars of a beat, and then a 1 measure fill (and the EXACT same fill every time) which includes a couple of soft notes and a couple of loud notes, then hit the right crash followed by the left crash…and cycle the whole thing over and over. I have literally watched hundreds of videos on drum recording techniques and I very rarely see a drummer allow me to actually hear the toms with dynamics, or who plays the right and left cymbals so I can check my panning. Please write that on a Post-it note and hand it to the next drummer you see and ask him to hand it to the next one he meets, and so on until we are all on the same page 😉❤️🎶 Great video, I’m off to the studio right now to experiment away !!!!!!!!!
Did this 20 years ago, put the mic (not a 57 but an even cheaper 33-1070c) on the kick drum facing the drummer (me) atop a towel to eliminate rattle/resonance. With a little EQ and reverb it sounded a bit like Surfer Rosa minus the stereo imaging
10:06 ... the old mic above the drummer pointed at the snare was an old favourite from back in the 4 track days, although you'd need a mic on kick with it aswell, but record both to one track. None of the other suggestions have enough smack from the snare for me.
To avoid interference at the frequencies of the kick drum, it is necessary that the distance from the kick drum to the microphone and from the kick drum to the floor and microphone is not equal to half. It is desirable that one of the sides be 1\3 or 1\5 or something between these values. Sorry for my English.
Height is one-third of distance, except for the under-the-ride position. No-one went for a floor position, just above the surface, like the Shure Engineers explored in the 1970s, it may go back before then. Great way to get a reflected sound off the floor. The Shure people made a cradle to hold the mic at the right angle. There's a paper online as a PDF.
I absolutely LOVE the drum sound starting at 3:12! Big HUGE Bonham-ish sound. So that was the two Sanken mics? Can you recall where they were placed in the room?
NotForProfitProphet I will find it and make sure for you... I believe it is the Sanken co100k's. The idea was to capture a neutral un colored sonic snapshot of what the attendees were hearing in the room. This was before placing 57s. They were on either side of the room just above the height of the soffits (10' approx)
Please and thank you! Because THAT drum sound is amazing. Just add a close miked kick and snare for a little definition and that would make a killer big rock drum sound in it's own right.
This is a MUST-WATCH for every drummer or sound enginner. So helpful. In german, in music-jargon we call it "Wurst"... which translates to Sausage... to express that the mic is pointed directly at the drummer's crotch. kinda funny eh
agreed. I accidentally learned the Wurst mic position when I rested a mic on a pillow on top of my bass drum and it sounded better than anything I'd done previously.
Yes. You can see that the other 3 mic channels (right of the keyboard) and the two room mics (left of the keyboard) are muted. So you are just hearing the one mic at 17:00 (and thereabouts).
It sounds very good. I think close micing is much better as it gives you flexibility to eq, compress, whatever to every piece separately. And these things are very affordable and not bulky these days.
I casually popped into this video with him randomly saying “for example if you want more low end, you should know which corner of your ceiling to put the microphone in” 🤣 Like OK never mind I don’t even wanna learn anymore if that’s how insane this gets
Please ask the drummer to include a few more and slightly longer tom fills per mic example. I wanted to hear the tom levels and how well they were projecting compared to the bass, snare and HH.
I learned a lot from this, but the instructor never showed where he prefers the mic placed, he had the students decide and then he fine tuned the positions. I would like to see his choice of locations
To use such a good sounding room is nearly cheating :-) I would probably use the SM57 like in minute 14:00 plus the Sanken Stereo, a bit Delay, depending on the music, and thats it.
So wait, that last clip where he's showing the single-mic result, is that just using the mic he placed above the kick pointed at the snare splitting the toms?
I've always heard that referred to as the "Heart" technique, but not in this video. It's worth losing a tom for and getting used to a higher cymbal in order to place your biggest bestest mic there.
People in the audience don't hear stereo drums.. just try to get a fulll sound that is balanced. Mono I see fine, if only two mics. If it's jazz, that's may be different. Spaced pair low in front of kit.
Great video👍 I know we are talking about drum recording techniques, however I'm wondering if one could apply this technique (ex. no 1 - above kick) to live performances. What do you think?
You can learn about live recording techniques (with TWO kick drums) by watching more videos on our channel. For example, Ian Schreier mixes Carl Palmer, here: th-cam.com/video/X3igMNywI8s/w-d-xo.html
I'm surprised no one is taking into account that when you hit a drum the skin compresses first. But if you're standing in front of the kick, you get an expansion first. To keep everything in sync, behind the the kit at drummers ear level makes the most sense for one mic
I started recording in 1961, with one mic, one mono tape machine, and one basement. It's almost painful to watch you struggle to do something we did every day, normally. Bill P.
I'm only 3 minutes in and I'm totally being that guy who comments before the video probably says something about it, but I just laughed a little; like 15 people are walking around the room trying to find the sweet spot, which is likely totally changing the sweet spot.
I'm hoping the really important information was not included in the TH-cam video. Otherwise I'd be super pissed about paying for this seminar if I had attended it lol!
As an amateur producer, my best sounding drums, concrete floor, 6’ tall ceilings, Sm-57 on the ground next to the kick, Tascam 4-track, blew my mind and still does 20 years later. I still use them today in my hip-hop productions.
That sweet spot right above the bass drum is perfect
Agreed
Could use a bit more HH though.
Apart from that my favourite spot, too.
And sick for a small room where you have to fit other instruments too
WTF that kick is already sounding kickass. Nothing better to address the importance of pre production and good quality instruments than this demo
Correction: At 14:43 the mic over the bass drum and under the ride is NOT "parallel to kick head" as the caption says. It is horizontal, parallel with the kick drum shell (which is perpendicular to the kick head).
Summary of the sounds from different mic positions:
9:49 - Attendee Mic Position 1
10:05 - Attendee Mic Position 2
10:18 - Attendee Mic Position 3
10:27 - Attendee Mic Position 4
10:34 - Talk about the Attendee Mic Positions
11:22 - Repositoning "Attendee Mic Position 1"
12:46 - "Mic 4", which I guess = "Attendee Mic Position 1" ???
13:05 - Repositioned "Mic 4" (balanced sound)
13:15 - Talk about Repositioned "Mic 4"
14:00 - Alternative Mic Position 1
14:20 - Alternative Mic Position 2
14:38 - Alternative Mic Position 3
15:07 - Alternative Mic Position 4
Thanks!!
The kick sounds AMAZING! Almost electronic, love it. Great demo!
Thanks! Glad you enjoyed it!
That room sounds great
Tim Watson Drums room is the most crucial
Thanks! Book a session with us to experience it in person!
You know its crazy how much the room can impact the sound of cymbals. I've been gigging a lot recently and my two crash cymbals will take turns sounding extremely harsh depending on the room they are set up in. One night one will sound smooth and pleasant and the other will sound harsh, then vice versa. One is a 17" and one is 18"
I love the sound of drums mic'd at a distance! The kick especially 😍
A good tool to use is a video camera. Setup a camera that captures as much of the room as possible and walk around the room with the mike, placing it in different locations for 10 seconds at a time. Sync the microphone audio to the video and note the best sounding locations.
If I'm not mistaken, the goal was to pick the best mic position to capture a balanced sound of the entire drum kit. With out any preference, the clear definitive choice for me was at 14:20
Agreed
Maybe, but no tom toms
14:30 Love the front mic position. Thanks for posting this. It really is worthwhile.
This was my favorite as well. Sounded nice and full!
This was very intresting for recording drums, we just recorded that with my band, so i think this is very helpful for the future.
13:54 - 13:55 That sound was absolutely beautiful. Excellent choice in drums, nothing comes close to a Sonor kit.
Ummm Gretsch supersedes Sonor live and in studio!
Tama Star
As a Sonor man I'd say that any quality brand kit with good fresh drumheads and carefuf TUNING has a chance to sound impressive
@@seppoinnanen5577 This is correct. A well tuned Glarry will get the job done.
Oh Y E S - it´s the position, and the room! You nailed it! Thanx !
Thanks Ian for sharing this to the engineer community ❤
One of my favourite drum sound on a song was recorded only with SM57s. And it was a world hit, and many people try to recreate the sound regardless their knowledge or lack of it about the microphones that were used.
Very helpful, produced and presented extremely on the money, thank you.
Best video about recording / engineering ever made. HOW DOES THIS ONLY HAVE 5000 VIEWS???
i second that.
Thanks! Now up to 7,000...
I just found it. Love it.
Wow! Thanks!
Over 100k
Love that front mic at 14:30 - thanks for the lesson! 💀🔥🥁
Really informative !!!
Best advice ever… walk around and listen; ears first brain next !!!
I always feel like I’d like to coach drummers to play:
two bars of a beat, and then a 1 measure fill (and the EXACT same fill every time) which includes a couple of soft notes and a couple of loud notes,
then hit the right crash followed by the left crash…and cycle the whole thing over and over.
I have literally watched hundreds of videos on drum recording techniques and I very rarely see a drummer allow me to actually hear the toms with dynamics, or who plays the right and left cymbals so I can check my panning.
Please write that on a Post-it note and hand it to the next drummer you see and ask him to hand it to the next one he meets, and so on until we are all on the same page 😉❤️🎶
Great video, I’m off to the studio right now to experiment away !!!!!!!!!
I like this idea
Recently started recording demos from my home, this video has been helpful and affirmed some of my own experimentations. Great stuff.
glad it was helpfull!
Very clear explanations & great instructions!
Thanks!
Did this 20 years ago, put the mic (not a 57 but an even cheaper 33-1070c) on the kick drum facing the drummer (me) atop a towel to eliminate rattle/resonance. With a little EQ and reverb it sounded a bit like Surfer Rosa minus the stereo imaging
14:00 for me. Not a lot of room You can add stuff later but that seems the most clear of all the positions to me.
This is such a good reminder.
Mic 4 position 2 is golden!
10:06 ... the old mic above the drummer pointed at the snare was an old favourite from back in the 4 track days, although you'd need a mic on kick with it aswell, but record both to one track. None of the other suggestions have enough smack from the snare for me.
Same. I’m glad I wasn’t the only one 😊
Increible video, muchas gracias por todo el trabajo que hicieron! Saludos desde Argentina
To avoid interference at the frequencies of the kick drum, it is necessary that the distance from the kick drum to the microphone and from the kick drum to the floor and microphone is not equal to half. It is desirable that one of the sides be 1\3 or 1\5 or something between these values. Sorry for my English.
This one was so interesting - thank you for the video!
Ohhhhh man he’s got vintage Sonor phonic!!! One of the best, I own one in gold.
Jesus Christ that room sounds amazing
This video was extraordinarily helpful. And I've been recording for years. Lol. Just when you think you know some stuff.
i learn something new every day!
Great content, interesting and helpful, nuff respect!
A great room, well tuned kit, and good drummer goes a very long way. The snare could use some more bottom wires sound. Great video!
you are true - it's choke because the snare wires too tight - adjustment takes 1 second
I’m so excited about this
Fantastic! Great information presented in a practical manner. Subscribed.
Thank you!
I personally like that high tuned bass drum sound.
Height is one-third of distance, except for the under-the-ride position.
No-one went for a floor position, just above the surface, like the Shure Engineers explored in the 1970s, it may go back before then. Great way to get a reflected sound off the floor. The Shure people made a cradle to hold the mic at the right angle. There's a paper online as a PDF.
Right angle... okay.
I absolutely LOVE the drum sound starting at 3:12! Big HUGE Bonham-ish sound. So that was the two Sanken mics? Can you recall where they were placed in the room?
NotForProfitProphet I will find it and make sure for you... I believe it is the Sanken co100k's. The idea was to capture a neutral un colored sonic snapshot of what the attendees were hearing in the room. This was before placing 57s. They were on either side of the room just above the height of the soffits (10' approx)
Please and thank you! Because THAT drum sound is amazing. Just add a close miked kick and snare for a little definition and that would make a killer big rock drum sound in it's own right.
This would be great if you put this into a video course.
Lots of good info on this video!
5:48 Butt mic. Glad they used 57s! An ldc would be painful.
8:52 drummer getting ready for the butt mic
@@samoht77 -Haha!
Thank you, great video.
super video.. would like to see him in a not so perfect room, with close to no ambience.. like most of us have to deal with.. and get his input.
that sounds like a good idea. I recently recorded a band in a yurt. very challenging
amazing differences, especially between 1st and second position!!
This is a MUST-WATCH for every drummer or sound enginner. So helpful.
In german, in music-jargon we call it "Wurst"... which translates to Sausage... to express that the mic is pointed directly at the drummer's crotch. kinda funny eh
agreed. I accidentally learned the Wurst mic position when I rested a mic on a pillow on top of my bass drum and it sounded better than anything I'd done previously.
Thank you!
Lovely room, so much air.
I really loved the snappy low end sound !!!!!!!!!! Reminds of a dnb style sounding drums!
in freakin' creadible video!! rgs. Thank you.
You are very welcome!
Awesome video!!!
Oh my god that sound 16:38
very informative video, thanks
So just to be clear: the audio engineer got that final drum sound with the SM57 position at 14:05? Is that the position he was referring to?
Yes. You can see that the other 3 mic channels (right of the keyboard) and the two room mics (left of the keyboard) are muted. So you are just hearing the one mic at 17:00 (and thereabouts).
Awesome! Thank you for the quick reply. This was so cool to see!!
It sounds very good. I think close micing is much better as it gives you flexibility to eq, compress, whatever to every piece separately. And these things are very affordable and not bulky these days.
Better? Always depends on the song.
Drums sound better at a distance. That is just facts. Yes, that overly close metal sound is appealing and useful, but not what drums sound like.
HOLY FUCK THIS WAS EXTREMELY INFORMATIVE!!! i want to cry!!!
Glad you Liked it!
Thanks for the video
I casually popped into this video with him randomly saying “for example if you want more low end, you should know which corner of your ceiling to put the microphone in” 🤣
Like OK never mind I don’t even wanna learn anymore if that’s how insane this gets
Awesome vid
Yikes. How far up do you have to insert the butt mic for proper recording? Seriously, thank you for sharing this information. Very cool!
I would have tried one over the ride looking at the center of the snare. That’s my goto setup but with a Blue Microphones bluebird
Feels like a presentation during covid
Please ask the drummer to include a few more and slightly longer tom fills per mic example. I wanted to hear the tom levels and how well they were projecting compared to the bass, snare and HH.
Great stuff.
Kinda skipped ahead to 4:26 and thought it felt like a Tim and Eric sketch
I assume this is solid stuff though 🙏
Thank you; much appreciated. Ideas to try with hand percussion :D
first thing i noticed was the Sonor Phonic lugs. Hence .. first you need a good sounding instrument,
good cymbals. If you dont have good cymbals any choice of mics or whatever will be for naught
35% performance, 25% instrument , 20% room, 15% mics , 5% preamplifier
Wow great. What a lesson.
Love this!
I learned a lot from this, but the instructor never showed where he prefers the mic placed, he had the students decide and then he fine tuned the positions.
I would like to see his choice of locations
Im curious too
I wish i could walk around the room as i play 😂
Bravo! Thank you very much
You're welcome :)
Amazing!
At 14:07, that's very similar to the 'crotch mic' method, which I personally like.
Teach me about this 1 mic idea on crotch mic / wurst. And how to EQ it pls
To use such a good sounding room is nearly cheating :-) I would probably use the SM57 like in minute 14:00 plus the Sanken Stereo, a bit Delay, depending on the music, and thats it.
So wait, that last clip where he's showing the single-mic result, is that just using the mic he placed above the kick pointed at the snare splitting the toms?
Yup
I've always heard that referred to as the "Heart" technique, but not in this video. It's worth losing a tom for and getting used to a higher cymbal in order to place your biggest bestest mic there.
Ah yes the Horst Link SONOR....a mighty classic of german engineering.
Where would you place two mics to get an stereo impression of the kit?
People in the audience don't hear stereo drums.. just try to get a fulll sound that is balanced. Mono I see fine, if only two mics. If it's jazz, that's may be different. Spaced pair low in front of kit.
Great video👍 I know we are talking about drum recording techniques, however I'm wondering if one could apply this technique (ex. no 1 - above kick) to live performances. What do you think?
You can learn about live recording techniques (with TWO kick drums) by watching more videos on our channel. For example, Ian Schreier mixes Carl Palmer, here: th-cam.com/video/X3igMNywI8s/w-d-xo.html
Blew my mind.
I'm surprised no one is taking into account that when you hit a drum the skin compresses first. But if you're standing in front of the kick, you get an expansion first. To keep everything in sync, behind the the kit at drummers ear level makes the most sense for one mic
Where did this take place?
The drummer is sick
What was the position used for the audio playing at the end with EQ?
I believe it was #4: centered on the kick and out in the room.
Sounds great. Would love to hear a blend of that and the mic above the kick. Some good parallel potential there!
Ah...but that would be two microphones! We did evaluate multi-mic setups in the afternoon session of the seminar.
Any joy?
Which Sonor kit is this?
Wow that room
aint no one gonna talk about how they got an inmate to play drums for this video?
Thank you Shariel. Where do these mic demo video guys find these annoying drummers. Same beat every video. Can't do it, sorry.
mic 4 position 2 - 1 mic balanced tone, nice
14:05 sounds best to me
I need someone like you to help me record I have original songs and I play all the instruments and I need help with each and every little detail
If the Research Triangle is convenient to you, read this page and get in touch! manifoldrecording.com/planning-a-session/
I started recording in 1961, with one mic, one mono tape machine, and one basement.
It's almost painful to watch you struggle to do something we did every day, normally.
Bill P.
I'm only 3 minutes in and I'm totally being that guy who comments before the video probably says something about it, but I just laughed a little; like 15 people are walking around the room trying to find the sweet spot, which is likely totally changing the sweet spot.
The room sounds great. What are the dimensions of the room? How many sides are there? What is the ceiling height?
All specs are at manifoldrecording.com but Music Room is 52' long 32' wide and 24' tall. Hexagonal shape yields about 1400 square ft on the floor.
Didnt know bobby Moynahan taught sound engineering classes too
14:05
I'm hoping the really important information was not included in the TH-cam video. Otherwise I'd be super pissed about paying for this seminar if I had attended it lol!
This is only from the morning ;) It was an all day seminar!
Yer gay
I survived attempted abortion, and all my mom has to show for it is her prolapsed chuff... And me 😅
it sounds like Ian Botham drums to my ear a little
10:20 my favourite out of all of them
57 best mic ever?