In Sniper School we were taught to use "full value" (direct crosswind) and "half value" (quartering wind 45º off) in the determination of our wind. If you were at 1000m and 10mph left to right direct crosswind that would mean 8.3 MOA or roughly 83" deflection due to wind. The rules of thumb I used in the calculation were only good for the 7.62x51mm NATO round we used but can still be used for .30-06 for a 168 gr bullet. The constant you use depends on the caliber and bullet weight of round you are shooting. A quartering crosswind would he half that, or "half value" or 4.15 MOA which would equate to about 41.5". And since wind can often change significantly over the entire path of the bullet, check your mirage 1/3 the way to the target and 2/3 of the way to the target. In Shitcanistan on a 1000m shot in the mountains it was not unusual to see the wind literally change direct from left to right to right to left along the path of the bullet. You have to judge both and average the difference to give you an accurate windage.
My experience in mountains was trying to get from one peak to the next... everything changed consistently, quickly.. next to impossible to predict almost shot o shot. Definitely time of day, temps... I burned out more than one barrel simply pizzed and forcing shots during practice. The only answer was go big.. .50 or go home.
Half value are winds out of 1, 5, 7, & 11. Winds out of 2, 4, 8, & 10 can be treated as 70% value. M118 LR from M24 at 2610 has an MOA wind constant of 10 at 1000, thus a 10 mph full value wind would move impact 10 MOA, or 100 inches at 100 yards.
Solid advice. Something to watch and think about to all the advanced shooters - In my opinion the atmosphere is like a giant invisible ocean. Waves in the ocean come in sets, 3's 7's 9's, with 9 being the end of a set. The size builds through the set. The end of the set usually has the biggest wave where all hell breaks loose. This is often followed by a relative calm. Well if this theory be true about the atmosphere, a relative channel of calm can often be found at the end of a set. This channel of calm allows all sorts of opportunity, sometimes even almost windless conditions. If time is no factor, one can wait for the calm after the 9th wave ( biggest gust) before sending it. If you're lucky enough, you can shoot inside this channel of opportunity each time, thereby minimizing the variability. One can test this theory by watching the flags on a range as the wave of wind moves towards or away from you. Similarly in the field, the grass and trees will tell this story. It's called the Oberem Technique ( Joke). Test it out and feel free to comment. Obviously the shape of the land factors in as the air gets compressed around obstacles hills etc. The inverted invisible ocean with it's wave like winds nature persists and is a valuable tool. In a match if you are able to stall, move to the line to start towards the end of the 7th set, this way you should have calmer wind during 1, 2, 3 etc. Hope this makes sense and no I don't smoke....
Here's word on shooting on demand in changing wind/weather conditions with MOA wind constant formula applied to M4/M16 applications shooting M855 ammunition: Factors that affect trajectory. There are five environmental factors that affect trajectory. 1. Gravity-is a constant force that causes the bullet to fall toward earth the instant it leaves the barrel. 2. Drag-is the atmospheric resistance placed on the bullet that starts slowing the projectile the instant it leaves the barrel. 3. Temperature-differences in temperature cause the burn rate of the gunpowder in the cartridge to change. As the temperature rises gunpowder burns at a higher rate and as the temperature falls the gunpowder burns slower. As a rule, an increase of 20 degrees. will cause the bullet to impact 1 MOA higher. A decrease of 20 degrees will cause the bullet to impact 1 MOA lower. 4. Humidity-changes in humidity, either higher or lower, causes the air density to change. The higher the humidity the less dense the air is. The lower the humidity the denser the air is. The density of the air affects the bullet by affecting the ease at which the bullet passes through the air. As a rule, a 20 percent increase in humidity will cause the bullet to impact 1 MOA higher on the target. A 20 percent decrease in humidity will cause the bullet to impact 1 MOA lower on the target. 5. Wind-causes the bullet to be pushed either left or right off its intended point of aim. Wind deflection is always in the direction that the air is moving. Wind deflection decreases as the angle of the wind to the line of flight decreases. Reading and correcting for wind effectively takes practice, especially as distance increases where accuracy in correction is more critical. No matter what the experience level, to combat the effects of wind the shooter must understand 3 things. 1.The direction the wind is blowing. 2.The velocity of the wind. 3. The distance from shooter to target Wind estimation. There are several techniques used to estimate wind speed and direction. • MPH indicators- 1. Winds under 3 mph can barely be felt but will drift smoke. 2. 3-5 mph wind can be felt lightly on the shooters face. 3. 5-8 mph winds will keep leaves in constant motion. 4. 8-12 mph winds raise dust and loose paper. 5. 12-15 mph winds cause small trees to sway
• The clock system- is used to estimate the direction of the wind. Once a direction is determined a value then can be given to the wind. The value of the wind is in a direct relationship with the direction of the wind. 1. Full Value is a wind that is blowing perpendicular to the direction that the bullet is traveling. In the clock method, this would be a wind that is blowing from the 3 o’clock or the 9 o’clock position. 2. Half Value is a wind that is blowing from a quartering direction. It only has half the effect on the bullet’s impact. In the clock method this wind can best be illustrated as a wind blowing out of the 1, 5, 7, and 11 o’clock directions. 3. No Value is a wind blowing in the direction of the bullet’s path. The wind comes directly from the front or rear of the shooter. This wind has no effect on the deflection of the bullet. In the clock method the wind would be blowing either from the 12 or 6 o’clock direction. • Mirage- is caused by the reflection of light through layers of air. By observing the movement of the mirage, a shooter, through experience, will be able to estimate the velocity of the wind. The shooter will also be able to judge the direction of the wind. The shooter may have difficulty judging the value. To see the mirage a shooter should adjust the focus of the spotting scope to the approximately halfway point of the target. Observation of mirage can also be achieved by focusing the spotting scope on the target and turning the focus knob ¼ turn counterclockwise. This will adjust focus to the halfway point. Compensation for Wind. There are two techniques to compensate for the wind. They are: 1. Hold offs are where the shooter aims at a different spot, other than center mass, on the target to compensate for wind. 2. Sight manipulation is the moving of the windage knob, either left or right to compensate for wind. This formula will allow you to adjust for the distance that the wind displaces the bullet: distance to target in yards divided by 100 times wind value in mph divided by the constant of 7 equals bullet drift in MOA. Note: the constant of 7 is correct for M855 ammunition fired from M16-A4 or M4 to target 500 yards from shooter’s firing point. Distance to target in yards / 100 X Velocity in MPH / 7 = MOA of Drift Here’s an example for a 10-mph full value wind at a target distance of 500 yards: 500 / 100 X 10 / 7 = 7 MOA of Drift
I've been doing guess work on the wind when shooting long range. Usually my misses are directly attributed to the wind. Sometimes I can get a second shot to compensate on a long range chuck, but it doesn't happen too often. I'll be applying these methods from now on. I have made some pretty impressive shots with guessing alone but this might save me some ammo. I mainly use a 300WM and you'd be surprised how much the 178gr Amax blows around even at 400yds. Thanks Aaron, you guys are the geniuses of long range shooting.
@@shinoasada2216 you don’t say! Lol obviously he’s asking for some info on how to judge wind speed not direction! @wiederladerTv the thing is not all vegetation will move the same in say 5 mph wind some will bend more than others and so on so the best experience you can get is to go out in your area and watch the veggie while taking wind measurements and recording your data.... I’m a hvac contractor and if you don’t have a good wind meter they make one you can buy that plugs into your phone that we use to check airflow at vents it is pretty accurate 👍and fairly inexpensive
However, a bullet with a high BC value is obviously low friction and also likely has worse terminal ballistics (less expansion). So accurate shot, less damage.
Sure the extra speed of the .300 Win Mag would improve the amount of wind deflection. The recoil will also decrease your chance of spotting your hit/mis and making quick follow up shots. And the increased recoil serves no purpose since the 7mm round has more than adequate terminal performance. My preference is actually for the 6.5mm rounds due to decreased recoil. .30 Cal is old school and would die out if not for the old folks shooting it... ;-)
I'm learning more about 6.5 and starting to wish I had figured it out before getting set up with my first 300 win mag. But hey, those old folks can be pretty persuasive.
This is a calculation from my 50 years of hunting and 35 years of shooting long range. I shoot a .284 cal bullet so I will use this value for that caliber. The constant for .284 cal is 27. So the calculation for wind would go like this. Wind in MPH X yards in 100"s divided by the constant. Here is an example. 800 yards = 8 take that X 10 MPH wind full value = 80 divided by 27constant. Answer is 2.96 MOA.
There are much better bullets for the .308 than 168, I used to shoot 168 Sierra HPBT and then switched to Berger 185 Juggernaut/OTM. Much better results...
Mr. Bodyrocker, this guy has great advise, the 308 caliber it’s about as aerodynamic as a truck, I know, I have a Rem 308, the 7mm WSM kicks ass, don't put your pride in your equipment, put your knowledge in your equipment, it will allow you to shoot any rifle out there, and you will be able to gauge your shot much better with your present equipment. Besides, the 7mm comparison was just that, an example to compare with. My two cents
yep the 6mm variants,....6x284....6 norma,..are all better at distance than a .300,..308,...or his beloved 7mm mag. I still think though its all what you're used to. I've always shot 308,..so thats what I'm proficient with.
7mm doesn't require "less" doping than 308, both calibers have the potential to make long range shots. The shooter must still understand all of the variables and make the necessary adjustments to hit the target, the only real difference is the Numbers used.
Especially if the scope is adjustable in Minutes of angle or in MM or in inches, which both have good adjustments but if your going to custom loads ie: projectiles with a very low coefficient % and different powder to give it justy that little more power and also so many other features like the barrel twist ratio also plays a large part of how accurate and distance you can achieve as well? the only way your going to know is you can read the wind down range by eye and then make the adjustments as you shoot, the wind could be 10 miles per hour near the shooting line but down range it could be 35 miles per hour, so knowing you scope adjustments based on the 100 and 200 yard doping the rifle and then make you adjustments based of that, but so many extra benefits can make a rifle or weapons system be great at long range and they are basic items like epoxy resin the barrel into the stock so no movements will change the barrel and other extras like barrel grade stainless or chrome moly, now for F class comp shooting well thats the formula 1 of target shooting at long distances other than the military's sniper comps, which is totally different again world wide ?m
The point being made was the .308 Winchester is not, per se, the only or even the ideal long-range cartridge. Most experts in LR shooting recommend starting with .308 since it is so well-sorted out ballistically, with so much pre-existing DOPE and information on how its most-common projectile weights/styles behave in the wind. That's the good news. The bad news is that .308-caliber bullets (projectiles) do not become highly-efficient until at 190-grains in weight, and ideally over 200-grains. Which puts the most-efficient .308-projectiles mostly out of reach of the short-action .308 case. Simply put, your typical .308-caliber 168-grain BTHP Match projectile isn't all that efficient or flat-shooting. At 1,000 yards, it is inscribing a severe parabola (arc) coming down into its target,and since it isn't very good at cheating the wind, it gets blown around a good bit on the way there. Can a seasoned competitor or user get good, even exceptional results, with it? Sure, but the bullet and cartridge are not working for you as much as with some other choices. Which is one reason why calibers in the 6-7mm range are so popular with F-class, benchrest and other long-range distance shooters. In non-magnum cartridges, they tend to have manageable recoil and projectiles in this caliber range, .243-.284, have excellent BC values and perform well in the wind. The majority of the highest-ranked PRS and other LR competition shooters today use 6mm Creedmoor, 6.5 Creedmoor, and similar cartridges.
Does not velocity come into play here? I thought the less time the bullet is in flight the less time it has to be blown off course. Either way. I'll always love my .308
@@jasonmpd2946 I shoot 6.5/284 in NRA Long-Range Competition. After about 500 rounds the barrel throat is washed out enough that I can no longer hold inside 1 MOA at 1000 yards, meaning too low an X count to win at High Master level. At any rate, I suspect Jay is right about barrel life of 7mm REM Ultra Mag. BTW, I also shoot .223 in LR Competition. Typically barrel life for a cut rifled barrel is about 3000 rounds before sub MOA results deteriorate.
Wind is just a part in pin point accuracy you got Barometric pressure, Altitude, Temperature , Humidity, Range , Angle of sight , POA and Ammunition ballistics.
Smiley Tactical Humidity is a huge factor it effects the projectiles complete trajectory.Its the basic laws of physics air containing higher levels of water molecules is an altered atomic makeup and density. Heavier air requires more energy to force an object through it. At long ranges your point of impact will change in different humidity levels.
it will not change that much. From 0% to 100% humidity 308 will only change point of impact by about 2 inch at 1000 meters. What are you shooting at those distance that require more then 0.2 MOA accuracy? Check yourself on a balistic calculator. like I said on the first comment the more humidity the less resistance for the bullet. Look it up.
Not really, the most accurate groupings at 1,000 yards are with a .308 Caliber BUT, that's because the person was an extreme experienced Bench shooter XD But other then that nothing beats 6mm in accuracy as a majority
Make it more fair. Same bullet and weight in an 300 win mag! That would be more accurate. We all know your shooters on your show are biased towards the 7mm caliber.
In the comparison of the two rounds you aren't mentioning the speed of the bullet. Try this again and use the 300 win mag. and the same weight of bullet and you will see a big difference. It is not a fair comparison between the 7mm mag and the 308 which with a 168 gr bullet is much slower. The 7mm at a faster time to the target is exposed to less wind.
wow,..so he wants to convince us to shoot 7mm mag. Why can't they just present the info without trying to push their opinion in which cartridge is best. I shoot .308. i'm used to doping my scope with a .308. Doesn't matter what you haev,...it's all what you are used to , and what you are practiced with. 1000 yards is very doable with a .308.
There's nothing wrong with .308. He's simply trying to point out the advantages inherent in other chamberings and calibers. Yes, 1,000 yards is within the performance envelope of the .308 Winchester, if the proper bullet (projectile) and load are used, along with the correct dope and a skilled person behind the trigger. But most .308 loads run out of gas by that time, or perhaps 100-200 yards further, whereas a 6.5 Creedmoor 147-grain ELD-M or one of the other high-efficiency 6.5mm projectiles, is only warming up at a grand. It is supersonic out to 1500 yards, fully a third more usable distance. That's due to the inherent efficiency of the 6.5 bullet, which has a much higher BC than the relatively stubby .308.
nothing beats 6mm!?!? from my experience thats wrong, physical a bigger calibre will shoot more reliably consistent! thats why a rifle will never reach the accuracy of artillery!
Want to learn to shoot long range in wind? Shoot 22lr at 200 yards. Even 1mph of wind can push you off by 1moa or more depending on where it's coming from. Use easier cartridge? No, that teaches you nothing. Use the hardest one you can get, and I bet you can get a 22.
In Sniper School we were taught to use "full value" (direct crosswind) and "half value" (quartering wind 45º off) in the determination of our wind. If you were at 1000m and 10mph left to right direct crosswind that would mean 8.3 MOA or roughly 83" deflection due to wind. The rules of thumb I used in the calculation were only good for the 7.62x51mm NATO round we used but can still be used for .30-06 for a 168 gr bullet. The constant you use depends on the caliber and bullet weight of round you are shooting. A quartering crosswind would he half that, or "half value" or 4.15 MOA which would equate to about 41.5". And since wind can often change significantly over the entire path of the bullet, check your mirage 1/3 the way to the target and 2/3 of the way to the target. In Shitcanistan on a 1000m shot in the mountains it was not unusual to see the wind literally change direct from left to right to right to left along the path of the bullet. You have to judge both and average the difference to give you an accurate windage.
Oorah
My experience in mountains was trying to get from one peak to the next... everything changed consistently, quickly.. next to impossible to predict almost shot o shot. Definitely time of day, temps...
I burned out more than one barrel simply pizzed and forcing shots during practice. The only answer was go big.. .50 or go home.
I was just here for research, and found all the answers in the comment section. Thank you sir!
Half value are winds out of 1, 5, 7, & 11. Winds out of 2, 4, 8, & 10 can be treated as 70% value. M118 LR from M24 at 2610 has an MOA wind constant of 10 at 1000, thus a 10 mph full value wind would move impact 10 MOA, or 100 inches at 100 yards.
Video starts @ 3:00 min
you are doing god's work.
Holy crap. The more I research the more I realize I'm playing the wrong game. But I'm going to stick with it 'til coach puts me in. 👊😁
Solid advice. Something to watch and think about to all the advanced shooters - In my opinion the atmosphere is like a giant invisible ocean. Waves in the ocean come in sets, 3's 7's 9's, with 9 being the end of a set. The size builds through the set. The end of the set usually has the biggest wave where all hell breaks loose. This is often followed by a relative calm. Well if this theory be true about the atmosphere, a relative channel of calm can often be found at the end of a set. This channel of calm allows all sorts of opportunity, sometimes even almost windless conditions. If time is no factor, one can wait for the calm after the 9th wave ( biggest gust) before sending it. If you're lucky enough, you can shoot inside this channel of opportunity each time, thereby minimizing the variability. One can test this theory by watching the flags on a range as the wave of wind moves towards or away from you. Similarly in the field, the grass and trees will tell this story. It's called the Oberem Technique ( Joke). Test it out and feel free to comment. Obviously the shape of the land factors in as the air gets compressed around obstacles hills etc. The inverted invisible ocean with it's wave like winds nature persists and is a valuable tool. In a match if you are able to stall, move to the line to start towards the end of the 7th set, this way you should have calmer wind during 1, 2, 3 etc. Hope this makes sense and no I don't smoke....
Here's word on shooting on demand in changing wind/weather conditions with MOA wind constant formula applied to M4/M16 applications shooting M855 ammunition:
Factors that affect trajectory. There are five environmental factors that affect trajectory.
1. Gravity-is a constant force that causes the bullet to fall toward earth the instant it leaves the barrel.
2. Drag-is the atmospheric resistance placed on the bullet that starts slowing the projectile the instant it leaves the barrel.
3. Temperature-differences in temperature cause the burn rate of the gunpowder in the cartridge to change. As the temperature rises gunpowder burns at a higher rate and as the temperature falls the gunpowder burns slower. As a rule, an increase of 20 degrees. will cause the bullet to impact 1 MOA higher. A decrease of 20 degrees will cause the bullet to impact 1 MOA lower.
4. Humidity-changes in humidity, either higher or lower, causes the air density to change. The higher the humidity the less dense the air is. The lower the humidity the denser the air is. The density of the air affects the bullet by affecting the ease at which the bullet passes through the air. As a rule, a 20 percent increase in humidity will cause the bullet to impact 1 MOA higher on the target. A 20 percent decrease in humidity will cause the bullet to impact 1 MOA lower on the target.
5. Wind-causes the bullet to be pushed either left or right off its intended point of aim. Wind deflection is always in the direction that the air is moving. Wind deflection decreases as the angle of the wind to the line of flight decreases. Reading and correcting for wind effectively takes practice, especially as distance increases where accuracy in correction is more critical.
No matter what the experience level, to combat the effects of wind the shooter must understand 3 things.
1.The direction the wind is blowing.
2.The velocity of the wind.
3. The distance from shooter to target
Wind estimation. There are several techniques used to estimate wind speed and direction.
• MPH indicators-
1. Winds under 3 mph can barely be felt but will drift smoke.
2. 3-5 mph wind can be felt lightly on the shooters face.
3. 5-8 mph winds will keep leaves in constant motion.
4. 8-12 mph winds raise dust and loose paper.
5. 12-15 mph winds cause small trees to sway
• The clock system- is used to estimate the direction of the wind. Once a direction is determined a value then can be given to the wind. The value of the wind is in a direct relationship with the direction of the wind.
1. Full Value is a wind that is blowing perpendicular to the direction that the bullet is traveling. In the clock method, this would be a wind that is blowing from the 3 o’clock or the 9 o’clock position.
2. Half Value is a wind that is blowing from a quartering direction. It only has half the effect on the bullet’s impact. In the clock method this wind can best be illustrated as a wind blowing out of the 1, 5, 7, and 11 o’clock directions.
3. No Value is a wind blowing in the direction of the bullet’s path. The wind comes directly from the front or rear of the shooter. This wind has no effect on the deflection of the bullet. In the clock method the wind would be blowing either from the 12 or 6 o’clock direction.
• Mirage- is caused by the reflection of light through layers of air. By observing the movement of the mirage, a shooter, through experience, will be able to estimate the velocity of the wind. The shooter will also be able to judge the direction of the wind. The shooter may have difficulty judging the value. To see the mirage a shooter should adjust the focus of the spotting scope to the approximately halfway point of the target. Observation of mirage can also be achieved by focusing the spotting scope on the target and turning the focus knob ¼ turn counterclockwise. This will adjust focus to the halfway point.
Compensation for Wind. There are two techniques to compensate for the wind. They are:
1. Hold offs are where the shooter aims at a different spot, other than center mass, on the target to compensate for wind.
2. Sight manipulation is the moving of the windage knob, either left or right to compensate for wind.
This formula will allow you to adjust for the distance that the wind displaces the bullet: distance to target in yards divided by 100 times wind value in mph divided by the constant of 7 equals bullet drift in MOA. Note: the constant of 7 is correct for M855 ammunition fired from M16-A4 or M4 to target 500 yards from shooter’s firing point.
Distance to target in yards / 100 X Velocity in MPH / 7 = MOA of Drift
Here’s an example for a 10-mph full value wind at a target distance of 500 yards:
500 / 100 X 10 / 7 = 7 MOA of Drift
I've been doing guess work on the wind when shooting long range. Usually my misses are directly attributed to the wind. Sometimes I can get a second shot to compensate on a long range chuck, but it doesn't happen too often. I'll be applying these methods from now on. I have made some pretty impressive shots with guessing alone but this might save me some ammo. I mainly use a 300WM and you'd be surprised how much the 178gr Amax blows around even at 400yds. Thanks Aaron, you guys are the geniuses of long range shooting.
Learning so much from your channel. Thanks. I’m new to long distance precision shooting.
Thanks for these Infos. Would be great if you could tell us more about reading the wind by watching the Vegetation.
It's simple: if vegetation leans certain direction it means wind goes into that direction. Faster shaking of leaves is faster speed.
@@shinoasada2216 you don’t say! Lol obviously he’s asking for some info on how to judge wind speed not direction! @wiederladerTv the thing is not all vegetation will move the same in say 5 mph wind some will bend more than others and so on so the best experience you can get is to go out in your area and watch the veggie while taking wind measurements and recording your data.... I’m a hvac contractor and if you don’t have a good wind meter they make one you can buy that plugs into your phone that we use to check airflow at vents it is pretty accurate 👍and fairly inexpensive
You are the man bro nice video wow thanks for the knowledge 📕
Thanks for sharing your knowledge with this informative video.
Amazing content ❤
Thank you. Informative presentation.
Great info as always, you lead others follow
Great tips, thank you very much
Thank You !
Great video. Subbed. 👍👍
excellent video!
Very very impressive
It is one of the top Rounds there is the 7 mm WSM is better than the 7 mm Mag, the 6.5 is pretty darn good as well.
However, a bullet with a high BC value is obviously low friction and also likely has worse terminal ballistics (less expansion). So accurate shot, less damage.
Hi! Great instructional video! Do you have videos that record mirage like some parts of this video?
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To determine wind speed is that you divide the angle by 4.
The 7mm 08 has far less wind drift and drop than the .308 and has less recoil and longer barrel life.
Sure the extra speed of the .300 Win Mag would improve the amount of wind deflection. The recoil will also decrease your chance of spotting your hit/mis and making quick follow up shots. And the increased recoil serves no purpose since the 7mm round has more than adequate terminal performance. My preference is actually for the 6.5mm rounds due to decreased recoil. .30 Cal is old school and would die out if not for the old folks shooting it... ;-)
I'm learning more about 6.5 and starting to wish I had figured it out before getting set up with my first 300 win mag. But hey, those old folks can be pretty persuasive.
The hobby was an amazing movie
This is a calculation from my 50 years of hunting and 35 years of shooting long range. I shoot a .284 cal bullet so I will use this value for that caliber. The constant for .284 cal is 27. So the calculation for wind would go like this. Wind in MPH X yards in 100"s divided by the constant. Here is an example. 800 yards = 8 take that X 10 MPH wind full value = 80 divided by 27constant. Answer is 2.96 MOA.
Lol wow.
why do you use MOA to the hundredth decimal place in 2.96? What do you do with the X.x6 besides round it up to 3.0?
perfect
There are much better bullets for the .308 than 168, I used to shoot 168 Sierra HPBT and then switched to Berger 185 Juggernaut/OTM. Much better results...
Mr. Bodyrocker, this guy has great advise, the 308 caliber it’s about as aerodynamic as a truck, I know, I have a Rem 308, the 7mm WSM kicks ass, don't put your pride in your equipment, put your knowledge in your equipment, it will allow you to shoot any rifle out there, and you will be able to gauge your shot much better with your present equipment.
Besides, the 7mm comparison was just that, an example to compare with.
My two cents
yep the 6mm variants,....6x284....6 norma,..are all better at distance than a .300,..308,...or his beloved 7mm mag. I still think though its all what you're used to. I've always shot 308,..so thats what I'm proficient with.
7mm doesn't require "less" doping than 308, both calibers have the potential to make long range shots. The shooter must still understand all of the variables and make the necessary adjustments to hit the target, the only real difference is the Numbers used.
That is why I now use Gerber 155.5 ...instead of the New Sierra..to get more BC and less guessing.. as I am NOT a great wind reader!!
Especially if the scope is adjustable in Minutes of angle or in MM or in inches, which both have good adjustments but if your going to custom loads ie: projectiles with a very low coefficient % and different powder to give it justy that little more power and also so many other features like the barrel twist ratio also plays a large part of how accurate and distance you can achieve as well? the only way your going to know is you can read the wind down range by eye and then make the adjustments as you shoot, the wind could be 10 miles per hour near the shooting line but down range it could be 35 miles per hour, so knowing you scope adjustments based on the 100 and 200 yard doping the rifle and then make you adjustments based of that, but so many extra benefits can make a rifle or weapons system be great at long range and they are basic items like epoxy resin the barrel into the stock so no movements will change the barrel and other extras like barrel grade stainless or chrome moly, now for F class comp shooting well thats the formula 1 of target shooting at long distances other than the military's sniper comps, which is totally different again world wide ?m
The point being made was the .308 Winchester is not, per se, the only or even the ideal long-range cartridge. Most experts in LR shooting recommend starting with .308 since it is so well-sorted out ballistically, with so much pre-existing DOPE and information on how its most-common projectile weights/styles behave in the wind. That's the good news. The bad news is that .308-caliber bullets (projectiles) do not become highly-efficient until at 190-grains in weight, and ideally over 200-grains. Which puts the most-efficient .308-projectiles mostly out of reach of the short-action .308 case. Simply put, your typical .308-caliber 168-grain BTHP Match projectile isn't all that efficient or flat-shooting. At 1,000 yards, it is inscribing a severe parabola (arc) coming down into its target,and since it isn't very good at cheating the wind, it gets blown around a good bit on the way there. Can a seasoned competitor or user get good, even exceptional results, with it? Sure, but the bullet and cartridge are not working for you as much as with some other choices. Which is one reason why calibers in the 6-7mm range are so popular with F-class, benchrest and other long-range distance shooters. In non-magnum cartridges, they tend to have manageable recoil and projectiles in this caliber range, .243-.284, have excellent BC values and perform well in the wind. The majority of the highest-ranked PRS and other LR competition shooters today use 6mm Creedmoor, 6.5 Creedmoor, and similar cartridges.
How do you account for coriolis effect? You know, earth spinning underneath the bullet?
Does not velocity come into play here? I thought the less time the bullet is in flight the less time it has to be blown off course. Either way. I'll always love my .308
308 is good, but it's not a 6.5 cartridge like the 6.5 Prometheus. 140gr bullets at 3700fps is astonishing.
That is, it is better to train the skill of reading the wind on the 308.
"Determining Wind Speed and Direction" begins at 3:15. Lots of fluff.
7mm Rem Ultra Mag is the real beast at about 30 caliber- problem is barrel life is only 600 shots-
1000000% false. Stay in your armchair.
must not clean gun and leaves outside between shoots
Brent Owen you have no clue
“600 shots”??
@@jasonmpd2946 I shoot 6.5/284 in NRA Long-Range Competition. After about 500 rounds the barrel throat is washed out enough that I can no longer hold inside 1 MOA at 1000 yards, meaning too low an X count to win at High Master level. At any rate, I suspect Jay is right about barrel life of 7mm REM Ultra Mag. BTW, I also shoot .223 in LR Competition. Typically barrel life for a cut rifled barrel is about 3000 rounds before sub MOA results deteriorate.
Does log wind profile come into play around the max ord range?
@ Gunworks, as people have asked, why are you comparing a hollow point to a VLD? Great videos, but I don't understand.
Wind is just a part in pin point accuracy you got Barometric pressure, Altitude, Temperature , Humidity, Range , Angle of sight , POA and Ammunition ballistics.
Humidity is really not that big of a factor and contrary to common belief the higher humidity the less resistance and less drop.
Smiley Tactical Humidity is a huge factor it effects the projectiles complete trajectory.Its the basic laws of physics air containing higher levels of water molecules is an altered atomic makeup and density. Heavier air requires more energy to force an object through it. At long ranges your point of impact will change in different humidity levels.
it will not change that much. From 0% to 100% humidity 308 will only change point of impact by about 2 inch at 1000 meters. What are you shooting at those distance that require more then 0.2 MOA accuracy? Check yourself on a balistic calculator. like I said on the first comment the more humidity the less resistance for the bullet. Look it up.
injectingRevolution Think you forgot Coriolis effect and bullet drift or spin drift
All of those mean nothing if you can't properly read the wind.
Is LRS going to take thousands of $$$ to get good at, ammo wise?
Matt Jones to get decent it shouldn't. however the more you shoot, the better you will get
Thanks!
Not really, the most accurate groupings at 1,000 yards are with a .308 Caliber BUT, that's because the person was an extreme experienced Bench shooter XD
But other then that nothing beats 6mm in accuracy as a majority
Until you're launching a 95 grain .264 Hornady V Max @ 4000 fps and wind/drop are almost nonexistant...
Guess I'm double that good. LOL
TH-cam "expert" commentors are why I keep coming back...hilariously cringey
LoL I meant to say hobbit
@6:40 a 5 mph R>L wind?
Probably less, maybe 2-3 mph
Why are you comparing a hollow-point boat-tail to a VLD?
Simply to demonstrate the importance of caliber/bullet selection in long range shooting, I suspect.
Because the 168gr HPBT is one of the most common loads for the .308, while Gunwerks uses the Berger VLD in their factory loaded ammunition.
Make it more fair. Same bullet and weight in an 300 win mag! That would be more accurate. We all know your shooters on your show are biased towards the 7mm caliber.
308 a lot cheaper to shoot.
In the comparison of the two rounds you aren't mentioning the speed of the bullet. Try this again and use the 300 win mag. and the same weight of bullet and you will see a big difference. It is not a fair comparison between the 7mm mag and the 308 which with a 168 gr bullet is much slower. The 7mm at a faster time to the target is exposed to less wind.
wow,..so he wants to convince us to shoot 7mm mag. Why can't they just present the info without trying to push their opinion in which cartridge is best. I shoot .308. i'm used to doping my scope with a .308. Doesn't matter what you haev,...it's all what you are used to , and what you are practiced with. 1000 yards is very doable with a .308.
Because he owns a custom rifle company and probably has a monetary interest in selling 7 mag.
There's nothing wrong with .308. He's simply trying to point out the advantages inherent in other chamberings and calibers. Yes, 1,000 yards is within the performance envelope of the .308 Winchester, if the proper bullet (projectile) and load are used, along with the correct dope and a skilled person behind the trigger. But most .308 loads run out of gas by that time, or perhaps 100-200 yards further, whereas a 6.5 Creedmoor 147-grain ELD-M or one of the other high-efficiency 6.5mm projectiles, is only warming up at a grand. It is supersonic out to 1500 yards, fully a third more usable distance. That's due to the inherent efficiency of the 6.5 bullet, which has a much higher BC than the relatively stubby .308.
nothing beats 6mm!?!? from my experience thats wrong, physical a bigger calibre will shoot more reliably consistent! thats why a rifle will never reach the accuracy of artillery!
Dang, cut the chatter and get to the point. Please.
Want to learn to shoot long range in wind? Shoot 22lr at 200 yards. Even 1mph of wind can push you off by 1moa or more depending on where it's coming from. Use easier cartridge? No, that teaches you nothing. Use the hardest one you can get, and I bet you can get a 22.
Way to wordy...
i can shoot 1000 yards and i don't need training method for long range shooting........ suckers XD
Hey Hey look I'm getting attention all thanks to you -_-
then y are you looking at this ??