All of that will break in when the bike is ridden and don't really benefit from the cycling like the cylinders do. Maybe we should have taken better care of the title of this video, but the implication is that we are talking about breaking in the motor.
It does to some extent but it’s apples and oranges when compared to getting a proper ring seal which is more of what this video is about. A gearbox will get broken in by default over time with general use and isn’t as critical to do properly in the early stages like rings where you have a good opportunity to create a lasting and quality ring seal. With gears there may be some flash that needs to be worn off of them but that's something the various filters and magnets will catch just fine at any time. Maybe another good answer would be to focus on getting the rings sealed and then work on the gears BEFORE you change out the break in oil. You could do that too.
I was thinking to change the oil on my brand new 890 Adv R before the first service. I was thinking to put the KTM recommended 10w-50 Motorex full synthetic oil. But, now after seeing this my understanding is that the bike came with a special break-in oil. So an oil change with KTM manual recommended oil before the first service (at 620 miles) is not recommended. What do you think?
I was wondering about the wet clutch on my motorcycle when using the Maxima10w-30 brake in oil, no where do I find that mentioned in their literature or your video.
Sometimes that is because of the clutch system. Full Synth can be too slippery for some clutches so semi is what is recommended. Some motors split the oil for that reason, but changes are more expensive and more laborious.
Currently we are not a service shop, although that is planned for the future at some point as we are able to get more space in our complex and hire techs. For the break ins, that will be offered as a part of our service department when we have created that. For now, we have not opened that up to the general public but plan to as we get many requests for it.
Not really. most of the point is to provide wear to the piston rings and idle just won't force the rings into the cylinder walls like higher RPMs will. Nor will it help break in parts that should be moving that aren't like things in the transmission. We typically will perform a few warming cycles using idle in the beginning, but then move to higher RPM stuff.
@@RottweilerPerformance it means there is no harm in idling a new bike in break in period...... Furthermore i am breaking in my bile by soft break in......
Lighter-weight engine oils have lower friction than heavier oils which is important for proper, controlled engine break-in. Maxima 10W-30 also contains little viscosity modifier (long-chain polymeric molecules) which also aids in more rapid engine sealing. Most modern motorcycles specify either 10W-40 or 10W-30 engine oils. Maxima Break-In engine oil is inline with most OEM recommendations.
I just purchased a 2022 KTM 890 adventure R. I get it home and the Engine Lite wont go off. Went back to Dealer who reset it and came on again. Are you guys seeing this? I hear it might be associated to the cheap acid based battery that it was shipped with. Look forward to your reply.
You should have asked the dealer what the code was listed as before they cleared it. That would have helped you pinpoint the issue as it will tell them the problem part. They are usually just an electrical thing unplugged as that's all the system can really see and maybe something is faulty and needs replacing. Now that the light is back, you can take it back and ask them to tell you what it is and fix it.
@@AZ_Baggin Interesting, because the knock sensors are the coils that also fire the plugs. They are ionic sensors. If it wasn't plugged in, then you wouldn't be firing that cylinder so now we are curious! 🤔
Agree with a lot but I don't like the idea of reusing break in oil without filtering it for metals, you can get chemical reactions from mixed metals this leads to permission of the fluid due to contaminants and ultimately corrosion
Here is the way we look at that as we do get some flack for this on this video from time to time. We don't really see any significant detrimental differences between running oil for 5 hours in one bike vs 1 hour each in 5 bikes so long as they are all similar in construction. They all are made from the same materials, and have the same amount of filtering capabilities. Maybe there will be more contaminants because the oil is used in brand new motors five times vs one motor one time, but we just don't see any major issues there and most oil specialists we have consulted with don't either. We are sure Maxima would be just fine with using new break in oil every time too, so there is that.
Really great video. I am going to get my new Norden next week. I have few questions: 1. Is the initial oil from factory ( or is it the dealer who builds the bike?) needs to be thrown or put back in after the initial 3-4 heat cycles to finish the first 1000 km run 2. How many times can you use the break in oil? Is there no risk of getting shavings into the oil from one engine to another? 3. For the norden specifically is the initial oil less than the break in oil? Thanks
They just put in regular 'non synthetic' oil that is intended for the break in. The Maxima Break In Oil is better as it is formulated for break in, and can be used for normal rides, but the stock oil will work for break in too. Once it's broken in, a switch to synthetic (We use Maxima Pro Plus) is recommended.
Very soon actually! We are a little spread thin these days, but we have a kit that should be out July 22. As a matter of fact I just got out of the dyno doing some work on that very bike!
Chris - sure looked like tapping the rev limiter early, like at 9k…. Can you confirm the actual rev limit? Also, do we know yet if it’s limited to 125-indicated? Thnx
We can't say for sure, but most likely. We can't see any reason they would take that away so it most likely has the same thing the previous year did. There are ways around that though.
Am getting my M1000XR tomorrow and I have asked the dealer to level the bike and heat the engine for one hour then shut it off tell next day to ride it with the gradual increase and decrease the throttle for 15 min then let it cool for 15 min then repeat the process Would this ok
Not entirely. You need load on the piston rings to push them into the cylinder to set the wear. This is not a bad thing to do at all, but not remotely complete in terms of proper break in. This tends to be a contentious subject with some people, will all kinds of theories thrown about, but after years of gathering information on all levels the dyno break in method of loading and unloading, along with heating and cooling cycles seems to be the most accepted method, which is what we use.
@@MAZENBIRAAll good, what you are doing is good, and once that’s done we would suggest loading and unloading the bike as best you can with short spurt rides oscillating the RPMs. Let it cool between these cycles and you should be good to then change the oil and go for it.
@@RottweilerPerformance the bike still at the dealership tell Thursday for accessories transfer from my RR so I have asked them to do the heat cycle an hour daily and leave it to cool down over night it means it will be in heat cycle for 4 days prior to but into the street and go to the next step Thanx a lot I’ll keep you posted
Honestly a lot sooner than they say, but safe is 600 miles. If you were able to replicate what we did on the dyno but on the street, you could do it in 200 quite frankly. KTM just doesn't know exactly who is riding the bike and how they are riding it so they just put it at a safe number.
@@RottweilerPerformance Thanks for the fast reply- really appreciate that. Yeah, that's kinda what I was thinking. I'm currently at 300 miles, have had several full-throttle pressurization runs, and a handful of full-throttle high-rpm runs., along with deceleration, etc. I think these rings are about as seated as they're going to be.
Nope, doesn't matter whatsoever. You are seating rings mostly, so none of those items will really effect that at all. Intake - fine. Exhaust - fine. Mapping with a Power Commander just changes the fueling - fine. All good. This is a common misconception.
@@RottweilerPerformance THANK YOU !! now just waiting for the intake , got the rest of the parts already , for my 901 i havent picked up yet , also looking for fork and shock springs i havent found any yet ?
Do you notice any difference by way of 'feel' from before and after the break-in? Will it idle different, be quieter, smoother? Or is this all a micro level and longevity difference?
This is more or less a 'guide' so to speak of what is commonly agreed upon by tuners as a good break in habit for ring to cylinder seal. The typical results are better power, longer engine life and cleaner longer lasting oil (because of less blow by and subsequent contamination). This is all of course on a 'best practice' scale and the differences may be miniscule when breaking in a bike differently, but when one is paying $20,000+ for a motorcycle, it's a nice feeling you did what is right and can feel good about it without wondering if there was something you could have done better.
I suppose my biggest question is, how many heat cycles or miles should we do without a Dino? Just run this method within the regular 600 miles break in?
Honestly if you were able to run this method fairly closely on the road, 3-4 would be sufficient. The 600 mile thing doesn't really carry much science behind it, they just need to pick a number to give customers a good reference as to when to take it back. Much of that also has to do with shaking down the bike, giving it enough time to show any gremlins that don't have much to do with ring to cylinder break in and allowing the customer some time on the bike. Engines, when broken in properly can be done in an hour to two hours. Other things may take longer to show, but we are primarily talking about the amount of time it takes to get a good ring seal.
Great video. Have you ever compared a factory chain to an aftermarket such as D.I.D. VX3 to see if there is a rear wheel HP loss/gain with different chains?
Honestly there can be many differences in runs without making any changes at all. Sometimes the motor is at just the right operating temperature where it is very happy and makes good power, and all the runs before and after that are a bit lower. Sometimes the engine management systems will make changes to the fueling and HP will go up and down so smaller items that may or may not make a slight bit of HP or not are really hard to see for these reasons. You may throw a different chain on and make some runs when the engine is happy or unhappy and you wouldn't want to make any judgements for or against something so small because of those factors. What we typically look for is trends in the runs. We will make 3 to 8 runs of one specific combination and then do the same with what we are wanting to test. If we see tends that repeat themselves over and over, then we have a good idea whether they worked or not. There is an averaging function in the software where we can average out all runs of one type and do the same with the other, but we have seen some inconsistencies with that so we don't use it. We just look for repetitiveness and that's our indication. All of this being said, I don't think you would see that much from one o-ring chain to another. There are claims of 'less friction' from some, and we believe those to be true, but tiny little o-rings effecting a 100+ HP motor where a rider could tell at his or her butt isn't something we would really focus or count on to make power. Intake and fueling is where it's at mostly.
@@RottweilerPerformance Thanks! I was just working on my 890 Duke R and the factory chain felt very draggy (technical term) using my highly refined hand dyno. (Compared to my R6). Your mention of engine HP vs. Rear Wheel HP made me wonder if a chain made any meaningful difference. Guess not! Looking forward to playing with Power Commander V.
Make it a 1690 SDR. Just kidding. To get there you would have to go internal. On the outside you can do the typical, an intake system, a Power Commander with an RP tune and an exhaust. On the inside you would have to get into cams, larger valves and porting, all of which most consumers won't touch. If you are that dedicated, that's how to get there but so far we haven't seen that at the tire. It's at the crank though.
@@RottweilerPerformance I'd honestly try to build something like this but I lack the space and technical knowledge to give it a try. My bike was a salvage so cost wise it wouldn't necessarily hurt anything lol.
Assuming you are talking about the Maxima Break In Oil we show us changing it when we were done with the cycles. Typically 3-5 twenty minute cycles is generally accepted.
@@RottweilerPerformance Thanks, sorry for my stupid question, I saw that you mentioned it in the video. And after such a short cycle, do you consider the engine to be fully broken in? It's quite the shortcut, from the standard break in procedure...
@@alexc8287 It is widely considered in the engine industry that the rings are broken in from those types of heat cycles and RPM ranges. The question would be what you would consider the 'standard' break in procedure and who is setting that standard. The 600 mile thing with KTM is probably taking into consideration many other things than the ring to cylinder seal, so that's what they recommend. I think it's safe to say that early within those miles the ring/cylinder seal is good, but some other things that need lapping in can take a bit longer but we are kind of talking about apples and oranges. This video is focusing on getting a really good long lasting ring seal mostly and how to do that. The rest of the items that may or may not need breaking in will happen naturally by themselves over time and don't really require any kind of 'heat cycling times' like we talk about. They just need time/miles.
@@RottweilerPerformance So, just to be clear, you replace the stock oil, you do the heat cycles, you replace the break in oil with the fully synthetic one and when the first 620 mile service is due, what than? Is it justifiable to dump the oil again? Sorry, I'm not a noob, but I feel like one, I never owned a 0 mile bike and I never had to nurse one in existence :)
@@alexc8287 You could, but it's not required. What we would do at the actual 600 miles would be replace the oil filter and clean out all of the drain bolt screens. There may be some flash in there that has settled and let loose from something in the gearbox. We would then take it to the dealer to get things unlocked and looked over but tell them not to bother with any of the oil as you have already done that. You don't really have to do that part but sometimes they need to unlock some things that change where the rev alarms are set and so on. Ask your dealer exactly what they do or recommend (which isn't always best depending on the dealer) and then you can decide where to go from there.
Same same! All bikes can use this method with tweaks to the RPM ranges. We usually just fluctuate between 2 and 6000 RPM on bikes with rev limiters set to around 10k, and you can adjust from there.
Hey man, great video! I bought a 2019 ktm 1290 super adventure s and since then have upgraded all the way to stage 6 decat and everything using you guys and I must say it’s an absolute monster of a difference. I haven’t had mine on the dyno but I can definitely tell the difference. After watching the video I was wondering if the lower 120 whp number you got from the 2017 model was from it being the first year/bike of that generation. I have seen dyno numbers from the 18, 19, and 20 with the same right at 140 whp stock number. Just wondering if you have had any other bike of that generation with a newer year model on the dyno? Not that it really matters, they are all beasts haha. I really appreciate all the help with questions and products you guys have sent over to me. Definitely will be buying more in the near future haha.
The numbers we have are from a 2017 which put out a RWHP of 122 stock, and 136 with a full stage 6 Rottweiler Performance Intake Kit. The 2022 put out 140 but we could not really speak to the 18,19 or 20 as we have not really had a need to have one of those on there. It's hard to compare from one dyno to another and depending on where it's reported that may have been crank HP mistaken for rear wheel HP. Not sure, but we are still pretty impressed one way or another at the advances they have made with these bikes.
Thanks Chris & Team for another great video! One question on KTM engines (this one specific to single cylinder '22 KTM 500 EXC-F), I have read that the engines are run at both the KTM engine plants and assembly, and are delivered with the Motorex 'Cobra' oil that is their non-synthetic break in oil, given these inspection runs at the engine and assembly plants, you still recommend using a break-in oil (ie, Maxima Break-In oil) for 3-4 twenty minute heat cycles (full cool down in between each) before changing to the spec synthetic to ensure proper break-in? Thanks.
Great question Kevin. We cover that a bit in the video about the oil, and yes that's what they consider break in oil and that's fine too. We just like to take it one step further for the small cost of the Maxima break in oil. Motorex has mineral oil too that can be used if Maxima cannot be found, and it is also a really good oil as well. We have a really good relationship with Maxima so that's what we talk about but we won't go so far as to say something else is 'not good enough' or anything like that. Most major brands are excellent. I have spoken to a rep at Maxima about this and they tell me that there are special additives in their break in oil that provide 'fast and effective ring seal'. Take that for what it's worth, everyone has something to sell, but the conversations I have had with them seem genuine implying that the break in oil actually does what it says it does. We can say that we dyno a lot of bikes here, and the ones that we properly break in generally seem to be higher in horsepower than other customer bikes of the same year make and model.
There are a lot of great oils. Most these days are all very good. We believe in Maxima because they are an American company that we feel makes great products. We sell many different types, but personally use Maxima by choice. They did not sponsor this video in any way, other than having a great relationship with them on a personal basis. Thank you for noticing though.
Multiple reasons. 1) We are reporting RWHP (rear wheel horsepower) where there is drivetrain loss between the bangs and rear tire. There are reasons for reporting both, but most of the aftermarket reports RWHP because they can’t remove every motor they want to test nor is there sufficient reason for it. Before and after is all that really matters in terms of percentage gains. 2) The factories post crank horsepower which is the 160 you are referring to. The marketing people love this and it makes sense because that’s what their competitors are reporting. 3) They use a different standard of measurement. In the U.S. most tuners typically report using S.A.E. At the rear wheel. The factories typically report in a metric measuring which also reports higher. It’s like foot lbs. vs Newton meters on a torque wrench. 4) The marketing department for any manufacturer is going to pick the highest legal HP number they can, and there aren’t horsepower reporting police to bust them for it. Hope this explains some things. 👍🏻
@@RottweilerPerformance loosing 40hp between the crank and the rear wheel is inexplainable, something is either wrong with the engine or they are lying about the 160 crank power.
@@radiocrash Not sure if you watched the end of the video where we explain all of that. Plus our results were not 120. They were 139. Listen to the ‘Results’ part of the video and it should all make sense.
Chris is the man,great heart and character that can't be copied
Thanks for showing this! My 22 R is on order and this video is another reinforcement of my decision to purchase sight unseen! I can’t wait!!
Could I get a link to the oil filter used? I found it on amazon but it is only listed for up to a 2020 SAS/SAR.
Kit: shop.rottweilerperformance.com/oil-change-kit-790-1290-lc8-lc8c-engines/
Oil Filter Alone: shop.rottweilerperformance.com/oil-filter-lc8-lc8c-engines/
What about the breaks, suspension, transmission and sidewalls of the tyres?
All of that will break in when the bike is ridden and don't really benefit from the cycling like the cylinders do. Maybe we should have taken better care of the title of this video, but the implication is that we are talking about breaking in the motor.
I was told to shift the gear frequently when breaking in a bike, you do everything in fourth gear. Doesn't the gearbox need breaking in as well?
It does to some extent but it’s apples and oranges when compared to getting a proper ring seal which is more of what this video is about. A gearbox will get broken in by default over time with general use and isn’t as critical to do properly in the early stages like rings where you have a good opportunity to create a lasting and quality ring seal. With gears there may be some flash that needs to be worn off of them but that's something the various filters and magnets will catch just fine at any time. Maybe another good answer would be to focus on getting the rings sealed and then work on the gears BEFORE you change out the break in oil. You could do that too.
Is the Maxima Break in oil works for wet clutch and share sump with Transmission?
Yes.
@@RottweilerPerformance thanks you so much for your reply!
Great video Chris. My 2023 KTM Super AR just arrived at the dealer. Looking forward to getting some upgrades on it.
Nice!! We are here when you are ready!
I was thinking to change the oil on my brand new 890 Adv R before the first service. I was thinking to put the KTM recommended 10w-50 Motorex full synthetic oil. But, now after seeing this my understanding is that the bike came with a special break-in oil. So an oil change with KTM manual recommended oil before the first service (at 620 miles) is not recommended. What do you think?
I was wondering about the wet clutch on my motorcycle when using the Maxima10w-30 brake in oil, no where do I find that mentioned in their literature or your video.
How long would you recommend running this oil under normal riding conditions before switching to synthetic on a new bike?
The recommended break in period is good enough. On KTMs they usually spec out 600 miles or so, then you can switch over to full synthetic.
What’s the benefit of switching to a full synthetic after break in? I have a 390 Adventure and the manual recommends a semi synthetic. Thanks.
Sometimes that is because of the clutch system. Full Synth can be too slippery for some clutches so semi is what is recommended. Some motors split the oil for that reason, but changes are more expensive and more laborious.
how do you schedule this type of service or any other at your shop?
Currently we are not a service shop, although that is planned for the future at some point as we are able to get more space in our complex and hire techs. For the break ins, that will be offered as a part of our service department when we have created that. For now, we have not opened that up to the general public but plan to as we get many requests for it.
Can we idle a bike in break in period for 10 min interval regularly????
Not really. most of the point is to provide wear to the piston rings and idle just won't force the rings into the cylinder walls like higher RPMs will. Nor will it help break in parts that should be moving that aren't like things in the transmission. We typically will perform a few warming cycles using idle in the beginning, but then move to higher RPM stuff.
@@RottweilerPerformance it means there is no harm in idling a new bike in break in period......
Furthermore i am breaking in my bile by soft break in......
Are you using 10w30 breaking oil for all types of motorcycles?
Lighter-weight engine oils have lower friction than heavier oils which is important for proper, controlled engine break-in. Maxima 10W-30 also contains little viscosity modifier (long-chain polymeric molecules) which also aids in more rapid engine sealing.
Most modern motorcycles specify either 10W-40 or 10W-30 engine oils. Maxima Break-In engine oil is inline with most OEM recommendations.
I see, Thank you@@RottweilerPerformance
I just purchased a 2022 KTM 890 adventure R. I get it home and the Engine Lite wont go off. Went back to Dealer who reset it and came on again. Are you guys seeing this? I hear it might be associated to the cheap acid based battery that it was shipped with. Look forward to your reply.
You should have asked the dealer what the code was listed as before they cleared it. That would have helped you pinpoint the issue as it will tell them the problem part. They are usually just an electrical thing unplugged as that's all the system can really see and maybe something is faulty and needs replacing. Now that the light is back, you can take it back and ask them to tell you what it is and fix it.
@@RottweilerPerformance So, you were correct. just found out that the knock sensor was not probably connected during assembly. Thanks
@@AZ_Baggin Interesting, because the knock sensors are the coils that also fire the plugs. They are ionic sensors. If it wasn't plugged in, then you wouldn't be firing that cylinder so now we are curious! 🤔
@@RottweilerPerformance maybe i should rephrase that. They were plugged together but not snapped/clicked together.
@@AZ_Baggin Ah! Okay. Makes sense. Well at least you got it sorted. No go ride!
Agree with a lot but I don't like the idea of reusing break in oil without filtering it for metals, you can get chemical reactions from mixed metals this leads to permission of the fluid due to contaminants and ultimately corrosion
Here is the way we look at that as we do get some flack for this on this video from time to time. We don't really see any significant detrimental differences between running oil for 5 hours in one bike vs 1 hour each in 5 bikes so long as they are all similar in construction. They all are made from the same materials, and have the same amount of filtering capabilities. Maybe there will be more contaminants because the oil is used in brand new motors five times vs one motor one time, but we just don't see any major issues there and most oil specialists we have consulted with don't either. We are sure Maxima would be just fine with using new break in oil every time too, so there is that.
Really great video.
I am going to get my new Norden next week.
I have few questions:
1. Is the initial oil from factory ( or is it the dealer who builds the bike?) needs to be thrown or put back in after the initial 3-4 heat cycles to finish the first 1000 km run
2. How many times can you use the break in oil? Is there no risk of getting shavings into the oil from one engine to another?
3. For the norden specifically is the initial oil less than the break in oil?
Thanks
They just put in regular 'non synthetic' oil that is intended for the break in. The Maxima Break In Oil is better as it is formulated for break in, and can be used for normal rides, but the stock oil will work for break in too. Once it's broken in, a switch to synthetic (We use Maxima Pro Plus) is recommended.
Maxima Break In in not damage wet clutch? there is nothing in the manual about it
Not at all. If anything it’s probably more grippy than synthetic, but it’s completely fine.
Excellent video! When will you be releasing performance intake and power parts for the ‘21+ SAR’s like the one you dynoed?
Very soon actually! We are a little spread thin these days, but we have a kit that should be out July 22. As a matter of fact I just got out of the dyno doing some work on that very bike!
@@RottweilerPerformance thanks! Any teasers on how much more power and torque we could expect?! "preliminary numbers" of course ;) Appreciate it.
Any info on the drain pan ?
Not sure what you mean. Can you reference a time period in this video that you are curious about?
About 4.59 there’s a oil drain pan was just curious if you sold these also or had a link
Thank you for taking the time to reply
@@escapeorion3741 That's a Matrix oil drain pan. We don't currently sell them but may at some point. We really like them.
Chris - sure looked like tapping the rev limiter early, like at 9k…. Can you confirm the actual rev limit? Also, do we know yet if it’s limited to 125-indicated? Thnx
We can't say for sure, but most likely. We can't see any reason they would take that away so it most likely has the same thing the previous year did. There are ways around that though.
Am getting my M1000XR tomorrow and I have asked the dealer to level the bike and heat the engine for one hour then shut it off tell next day to ride it with the gradual increase and decrease the throttle for 15 min then let it cool for 15 min then repeat the process
Would this ok
Not entirely. You need load on the piston rings to push them into the cylinder to set the wear. This is not a bad thing to do at all, but not remotely complete in terms of proper break in. This tends to be a contentious subject with some people, will all kinds of theories thrown about, but after years of gathering information on all levels the dyno break in method of loading and unloading, along with heating and cooling cycles seems to be the most accepted method, which is what we use.
@@RottweilerPerformance the issue I don’t have access to dyno at my city
@@MAZENBIRAAll good, what you are doing is good, and once that’s done we would suggest loading and unloading the bike as best you can with short spurt rides oscillating the RPMs. Let it cool between these cycles and you should be good to then change the oil and go for it.
@@RottweilerPerformance the bike still at the dealership tell Thursday for accessories transfer from my RR so I have asked them to do the heat cycle an hour daily and leave it to cool down over night it means it will be in heat cycle for 4 days prior to but into the street and go to the next step
Thanx a lot I’ll keep you posted
Is this really needed? Is it worth the cost? Did he win the world championship with this build? OCD?
NO, DEPENDS, YES YES
Great video! So, after a pretty spirited break-in (on the street) when could I switch over to a quality synthetic? Thanks!!
Honestly a lot sooner than they say, but safe is 600 miles. If you were able to replicate what we did on the dyno but on the street, you could do it in 200 quite frankly. KTM just doesn't know exactly who is riding the bike and how they are riding it so they just put it at a safe number.
@@RottweilerPerformance Thanks for the fast reply- really appreciate that. Yeah, that's kinda what I was thinking. I'm currently at 300 miles, have had several full-throttle pressurization runs, and a handful of full-throttle high-rpm runs., along with deceleration, etc. I think these rings are about as seated as they're going to be.
BREAK IT IN STOCK BEFORE doing the intake/exhaust/cat delete /power commander and whole kit ??
Nope, doesn't matter whatsoever. You are seating rings mostly, so none of those items will really effect that at all. Intake - fine. Exhaust - fine. Mapping with a Power Commander just changes the fueling - fine. All good. This is a common misconception.
@@RottweilerPerformance THANK YOU !! now just waiting for the intake , got the rest of the parts already , for my 901 i havent picked up yet , also looking for fork and shock springs i havent found any yet ?
@@justsomedude445 Maybe reach out to our live chat team. They can probably help point you in the right direction!
Do you notice any difference by way of 'feel' from before and after the break-in?
Will it idle different, be quieter, smoother? Or is this all a micro level and longevity difference?
This is more or less a 'guide' so to speak of what is commonly agreed upon by tuners as a good break in habit for ring to cylinder seal. The typical results are better power, longer engine life and cleaner longer lasting oil (because of less blow by and subsequent contamination). This is all of course on a 'best practice' scale and the differences may be miniscule when breaking in a bike differently, but when one is paying $20,000+ for a motorcycle, it's a nice feeling you did what is right and can feel good about it without wondering if there was something you could have done better.
I suppose my biggest question is, how many heat cycles or miles should we do without a Dino? Just run this method within the regular 600 miles break in?
Honestly if you were able to run this method fairly closely on the road, 3-4 would be sufficient. The 600 mile thing doesn't really carry much science behind it, they just need to pick a number to give customers a good reference as to when to take it back. Much of that also has to do with shaking down the bike, giving it enough time to show any gremlins that don't have much to do with ring to cylinder break in and allowing the customer some time on the bike. Engines, when broken in properly can be done in an hour to two hours. Other things may take longer to show, but we are primarily talking about the amount of time it takes to get a good ring seal.
@@RottweilerPerformance Well said! Thanks for the great vid
Great video. Have you ever compared a factory chain to an aftermarket such as D.I.D. VX3 to see if there is a rear wheel HP loss/gain with different chains?
Honestly there can be many differences in runs without making any changes at all. Sometimes the motor is at just the right operating temperature where it is very happy and makes good power, and all the runs before and after that are a bit lower. Sometimes the engine management systems will make changes to the fueling and HP will go up and down so smaller items that may or may not make a slight bit of HP or not are really hard to see for these reasons. You may throw a different chain on and make some runs when the engine is happy or unhappy and you wouldn't want to make any judgements for or against something so small because of those factors. What we typically look for is trends in the runs. We will make 3 to 8 runs of one specific combination and then do the same with what we are wanting to test. If we see tends that repeat themselves over and over, then we have a good idea whether they worked or not. There is an averaging function in the software where we can average out all runs of one type and do the same with the other, but we have seen some inconsistencies with that so we don't use it. We just look for repetitiveness and that's our indication.
All of this being said, I don't think you would see that much from one o-ring chain to another. There are claims of 'less friction' from some, and we believe those to be true, but tiny little o-rings effecting a 100+ HP motor where a rider could tell at his or her butt isn't something we would really focus or count on to make power. Intake and fueling is where it's at mostly.
@@RottweilerPerformance Thanks! I was just working on my 890 Duke R and the factory chain felt very draggy (technical term) using my highly refined hand dyno. (Compared to my R6). Your mention of engine HP vs. Rear Wheel HP made me wonder if a chain made any meaningful difference. Guess not! Looking forward to playing with Power Commander V.
@@paulmcmullen914 You will really like what the Power Commander V does for that bike with our maps!
Is this an advert for motorcycle oil ?
We have a great relationship with Maxima, and find their products to be spectacular, so, sure?
It didn’t look like you pre filled the oil filter.
Why?
It's never been particularly necessary with these engines. Maybe cars where they hang upside down, but not these.
How do I get 200 HP out of a 1290 SDR?
Make it a 1690 SDR. Just kidding. To get there you would have to go internal. On the outside you can do the typical, an intake system, a Power Commander with an RP tune and an exhaust. On the inside you would have to get into cams, larger valves and porting, all of which most consumers won't touch. If you are that dedicated, that's how to get there but so far we haven't seen that at the tire. It's at the crank though.
@@RottweilerPerformance I'll just wait for the 1690 SDR then 😂. I will most likely be waiting for the rest of my life. I'm not an engine builder.
@@RubberChickenMan007 You really have us thinking about the challenge though!
@@RottweilerPerformance I'd honestly try to build something like this but I lack the space and technical knowledge to give it a try. My bike was a salvage so cost wise it wouldn't necessarily hurt anything lol.
And also, for how long do you run this oil in the bikes. Didn't hear you mention that. Thanks!
Assuming you are talking about the Maxima Break In Oil we show us changing it when we were done with the cycles. Typically 3-5 twenty minute cycles is generally accepted.
@@RottweilerPerformance Thanks, sorry for my stupid question, I saw that you mentioned it in the video. And after such a short cycle, do you consider the engine to be fully broken in? It's quite the shortcut, from the standard break in procedure...
@@alexc8287 It is widely considered in the engine industry that the rings are broken in from those types of heat cycles and RPM ranges. The question would be what you would consider the 'standard' break in procedure and who is setting that standard. The 600 mile thing with KTM is probably taking into consideration many other things than the ring to cylinder seal, so that's what they recommend. I think it's safe to say that early within those miles the ring/cylinder seal is good, but some other things that need lapping in can take a bit longer but we are kind of talking about apples and oranges. This video is focusing on getting a really good long lasting ring seal mostly and how to do that. The rest of the items that may or may not need breaking in will happen naturally by themselves over time and don't really require any kind of 'heat cycling times' like we talk about. They just need time/miles.
@@RottweilerPerformance So, just to be clear, you replace the stock oil, you do the heat cycles, you replace the break in oil with the fully synthetic one and when the first 620 mile service is due, what than? Is it justifiable to dump the oil again? Sorry, I'm not a noob, but I feel like one, I never owned a 0 mile bike and I never had to nurse one in existence :)
@@alexc8287 You could, but it's not required. What we would do at the actual 600 miles would be replace the oil filter and clean out all of the drain bolt screens. There may be some flash in there that has settled and let loose from something in the gearbox. We would then take it to the dealer to get things unlocked and looked over but tell them not to bother with any of the oil as you have already done that. You don't really have to do that part but sometimes they need to unlock some things that change where the rev alarms are set and so on. Ask your dealer exactly what they do or recommend (which isn't always best depending on the dealer) and then you can decide where to go from there.
Can I use it for KTM 890 Adv R?
Same same! All bikes can use this method with tweaks to the RPM ranges. We usually just fluctuate between 2 and 6000 RPM on bikes with rev limiters set to around 10k, and you can adjust from there.
@@RottweilerPerformance Do you have a screen of difference between maxim and stock oil for 890r?
@@МаксимЗ-х4ю I'm not sure I understand the question. Can you repeat it another way?
@@RottweilerPerformance Thank you, I found the answers in comments below.
Can I use it on a 690 SMC?
Absolutely. The RPM ranges may vary a bit with different cylinder configurations, but for the most part the science is the same.
Hey man, great video! I bought a 2019 ktm 1290 super adventure s and since then have upgraded all the way to stage 6 decat and everything using you guys and I must say it’s an absolute monster of a difference. I haven’t had mine on the dyno but I can definitely tell the difference. After watching the video I was wondering if the lower 120 whp number you got from the 2017 model was from it being the first year/bike of that generation. I have seen dyno numbers from the 18, 19, and 20 with the same right at 140 whp stock number. Just wondering if you have had any other bike of that generation with a newer year model on the dyno? Not that it really matters, they are all beasts haha. I really appreciate all the help with questions and products you guys have sent over to me. Definitely will be buying more in the near future haha.
The numbers we have are from a 2017 which put out a RWHP of 122 stock, and 136 with a full stage 6 Rottweiler Performance Intake Kit. The 2022 put out 140 but we could not really speak to the 18,19 or 20 as we have not really had a need to have one of those on there. It's hard to compare from one dyno to another and depending on where it's reported that may have been crank HP mistaken for rear wheel HP. Not sure, but we are still pretty impressed one way or another at the advances they have made with these bikes.
Thanks Chris & Team for another great video! One question on KTM engines (this one specific to single cylinder '22 KTM 500 EXC-F), I have read that the engines are run at both the KTM engine plants and assembly, and are delivered with the Motorex 'Cobra' oil that is their non-synthetic break in oil, given these inspection runs at the engine and assembly plants, you still recommend using a break-in oil (ie, Maxima Break-In oil) for 3-4 twenty minute heat cycles (full cool down in between each) before changing to the spec synthetic to ensure proper break-in? Thanks.
Great question Kevin. We cover that a bit in the video about the oil, and yes that's what they consider break in oil and that's fine too. We just like to take it one step further for the small cost of the Maxima break in oil. Motorex has mineral oil too that can be used if Maxima cannot be found, and it is also a really good oil as well. We have a really good relationship with Maxima so that's what we talk about but we won't go so far as to say something else is 'not good enough' or anything like that. Most major brands are excellent. I have spoken to a rep at Maxima about this and they tell me that there are special additives in their break in oil that provide 'fast and effective ring seal'. Take that for what it's worth, everyone has something to sell, but the conversations I have had with them seem genuine implying that the break in oil actually does what it says it does. We can say that we dyno a lot of bikes here, and the ones that we properly break in generally seem to be higher in horsepower than other customer bikes of the same year make and model.
@@RottweilerPerformance Thanks and great advice as always, will plan to start doing this break-in on my newly purchased '22 KTM 500 EXC.
Sponsored by Maxima…..
There are a lot of great oils. Most these days are all very good. We believe in Maxima because they are an American company that we feel makes great products. We sell many different types, but personally use Maxima by choice. They did not sponsor this video in any way, other than having a great relationship with them on a personal basis. Thank you for noticing though.
How the hell does a 160 bike put out 120 hp? That’s less than a GS
Multiple reasons. 1) We are reporting RWHP (rear wheel horsepower) where there is drivetrain loss between the bangs and rear tire. There are reasons for reporting both, but most of the aftermarket reports RWHP because they can’t remove every motor they want to test nor is there sufficient reason for it. Before and after is all that really matters in terms of percentage gains. 2) The factories post crank horsepower which is the 160 you are referring to. The marketing people love this and it makes sense because that’s what their competitors are reporting. 3) They use a different standard of measurement. In the U.S. most tuners typically report using S.A.E. At the rear wheel. The factories typically report in a metric measuring which also reports higher. It’s like foot lbs. vs Newton meters on a torque wrench. 4) The marketing department for any manufacturer is going to pick the highest legal HP number they can, and there aren’t horsepower reporting police to bust them for it.
Hope this explains some things. 👍🏻
@@RottweilerPerformance loosing 40hp between the crank and the rear wheel is inexplainable, something is either wrong with the engine or they are lying about the 160 crank power.
@@radiocrash Not sure if you watched the end of the video where we explain all of that. Plus our results were not 120. They were 139. Listen to the ‘Results’ part of the video and it should all make sense.