Strength and the Ineffectiveness of Modern Strength and Conditioning with Mark Rippetoe
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 27 ส.ค. 2024
- Mark Rippetoe discusses the fundamental flaw with most modern strength and conditioning based on the principles of "functional fitness."
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It's the exact same thing that happens in "fitness" advertising. Person with 6 pack advertises machine. Viewer concludes that machine is how they got 6 pack. Viewer talks to friend about the machine they saw on TV, they both reassure each other how awesome it is.
while failing to mention the steroid abuse and genetics and strict diet and extreme cardio program used
He does have a point. Not just in american football but in a lot of sports, top athletes are great at what they do in spite of the way they carry out their strength training and conditioning, not because of it. In the NFL they all do a lot of weight lifting and it's part of the whole culture, but in most sports, especially team ball sports of all kinds, what is understood by "strength training" is basically doing push ups on stability balls and lots of leg extensions. The top athletes would probably still be just as good if they didn't bother with that "strength training" at all because they are just naturally very good at it, and more often than not on performance enhancing drugs. You can go very far indeed with bad training but great genetics plus drugs.
yes, but nowhere is it proven that starting strength makes top athletes perform better than their current methods.
Nobody has studied it.
I will concede that data is not the plural of anecdote, but my bicycle moves much faster with a bigger engine.
But now the question is , which engine is more efficient?
Unless you can switch to aerobic mode human muscular efficiency is always going to be pathetic, so splitting hairs in that regard.
And even that doesn't matter because people don't fail to finish games because they actually run out of fuel. That only really happens in things like marathons and upwards when people literally collapse, for any short/medium duration activity our bodies are perfectly capable or storing more than enough fuel and it's actual fatigue that gets in the way or performance.
Were talking about starting strength and its abilities improvements in performance and and bicycles, not whatever your talking about.
All I can say is I bought my seat to Wichita Falls for dec. 8,9, and 10 of 2017. I’ve gone through the gauntlet of chiropractors and physical therapist and nothing could help my back get strong except rippetoe excellent blue book. I shall kneel to Mark Rippetoe while I address him as Master Strength Overlord!!! Command Me!!!!
good to know. a strong back is essential.
Strength is 'the ability to apply force to an external resistance.'
There are many different kinds of strength...lol
As can that definition be interpreted many different ways.
*against A resistance
People josh about his use of the word "external" but a muscle is actually capable of applying force against itself, ie an internal resistance. Hence it is an effective distinction, though probably not 100% necessary.
@@scottmoyer3854 even the gravity is a resistance
Lol at the guy with the cross fit sweater
This man is incredible
The only place I have in my gym to do barbell free weight exercises is in the functional training room in the back, it is very sad seeing personal trainers carrying fat and old people around doing those monkey awkward things, I rarely see them for more than a week... it is not only mediocre at best in training the person it is also extremely discouraging to most people to be met with the ridiculously high aerobic intensity and since they will wake up feeling like shit and sore, they just give up because almost nothing measurable is gained from one week to another.
I have been going to that gym for 3 months, but was doing their machines program and cardio like crazy, very little strength gained... Now I have started barbell training following the book and day after day for the last two weeks of my life I actually can feel I am getting stronger and getting better body composition, because I put extra weight in the bard every training day. you cant argue with this kind of result I feel awesome and I am glad I found Starting strength trough Alan Thrall videos.
My gym is a complete joke too. The trainers at my gym can't coach a proper squat to save their lives and every trainee does shitty isolation work on the machines.
My gym is spending money to build a "Regeneration" area instead of buying decent barbells.
I was going to ask them if they were building a bedroom or a kitchen.
My gym is an iron dungeon with a combo rack, Texas Power bar, chalk in 50cal amo boxes and calibrated ivanko kilo plates.
That's how its supposed to be... But i guess most gyms are not interested in having a place where the main attention is on barbell training... And that's because most people are not interested in barbell training in general because is difficult and most people don't want to do difficult stuff. They just want their treadmill. It's sad.
I train in a gym in Brazil called "Smart Fit" (which is far from smart...), and I have been following strength programs for a year. They have a functional training area and it is where I can do barbell training. The other day I was doing rows and droping the bar on the ground. A so called "instructor" came and told me I should not drop the bar because I would damage the plates!
Alot of you guys giving your two cents are severely missing the message here.
He clearly states that people all over the country are imitating what seasoned athletes are doing in hopes to make their kind of gains.
If you're not progressively overloading your body in the lifts you're doing, you will not gain the way these athletes do.
He is simply trying to explain to everyone that if a regular Joe wants to gain strength they will have to work for it way harder, and if all you're doing is "functional training" you'll never make the gains you expect to because you're not a D-1 athlete.
Jamie Silveus somebody who gets it.
Not Sure You are wrong, if you can Squat, Deadlift, and push anything like 400lb, you will have achieved greatness already. And by virtue of your strength gain, you will have improved your vertical jump....
@@IRISHSALTMINER61 cant train vertical jumps.
@@IRISHSALTMINER61 and muscle mass too!
During the football season athletes don't push extremely hard in the gym, too much risk of injury. If you're going hard in the gym and the field, your body is going to break down.
During the off season is when athletes of this caliber step their game up in the gym, it's all about maintaining during the season.
Every good athletic programming follows this model, however there are always going to be a few exceptions that are able to continue training hard both on the field and in the gym.
Rip is an excellent example of why enthusiasts are superior to professionals.
The number of injuries in top athletes nowadays is off the charts
His voice could make a wolverine purrrrrr
Gotta flip tires bro. Swing kettlebells too
kettlebeel swing are a great way to add explosion to hip extensions and actually mimics jump patterns more closely than BB cleans.
so get off the couch then bro
Both are good conditioning exercises.
Totally. Flipping tirezzz is funkchunnal. Prehistoric man did it all the time.
RECRUITERS IDENTIFY NATURAL ATHLETES, THATS THEIR JOB
Ya like tom brady
“Most human beings have 2 nipples.” -Mark Bell
Barbell training is the best way to add strength BUT it is unforgiving when it comes to mistakes and it can result in great injuries. If you are doing deadlifts for the sake of being better deadlifter that's ok, but risk to reward ratio is a joke for prof athletes who are not weightlifters nor powerlifters. Many factors need to be taken account into. Ankle mobility, length of tibia, femur, your hip anatomy, are you even able to go to deep squat ets. Biomechanics are a huge factor and a person needs to be very well assesed
is there a part 2?
Don't know why that perfectly reasonable statement is qualified with "external"
cuz Rip has a big belly lol
So what does the regular person do to gain strength?
Mcgougen “Starting Strength..” by Mark Rippetoe
Only rip can help you. Everything else is bullshit according to him of course 😂😂
I'd like to see Rip play some football. Lol! Also this video was too short.
1st ! Thank you for sharing your knowledge and insight!
What Mark is talking about here, is the problem with *logical fallacy of appeal to authority* in the form of *appeal to accomplishment* .
"The best athletes in the world do __x__, so __x__ is the best way to do it.
Anatomy and Arithmetic > Appeal to Accomplishment
Khechari While this is by in large true, it seems that mark doesn't actually have an argument here. Really all he said was "mainstream strength and conditioning sucks, but the genetic elite will preform well regardless of programming." There's not much to extrapolate from that. Would the elite preform better under basic starting strength programming? Are modern strength and conditioning coaches just too dumb to realize how valuable starting strength is? Mark isn't exactly strong or conditioned himself, yet he participates in his own programming - why is that? Many unanswered questions, I suppose id have to watch the whole seminar.
""mainstream strength and conditioning sucks, but the genetic elite will preform well regardless of programming." There's not much to extrapolate from that. Would the elite preform better under basic starting strength programming?"
You're missing the point. It's not about what would work best for elite athletes. It's about what works for the average population.
A lot of people mistakenly think that elite athletes are elite because of what they're doing, and thus they do what elite athletes do, and fail.
Understand?
"Mark isn't exactly strong or conditioned himself, yet he participates in his own programming - why is that?"
Really?
Mark is over 60 years old and has horrible genetics for something like the NFL and YET he still can deadlift 500lbs. I'd say that that is a commercial FOR the effectiveness of his method of training...IF I though what kind of fitness levels he has had jack to do with the credibility of his theories.
Which they don't.
No. The point is that better methods work better for everyone, in spite of elite athletes performing well in spite of their shitty training.
I think there are too many variables at play to decide in a theoretical setting which training method is better. Unless a high level team implements these training methods and we see that they are superior, it's never going to be more than hot air.
The local's gym coach takes EVERYONE who comes to the gym and has them do very small dumbbell curls sitting down, 6 sets of 15... everyone, so you see extremely fat people sitting down with these ridiculous things in there hands doing that, a goddamn gallon of milk weight at least three times as much!! Picking up their kids from the floor is more taxing than that... and you can make people sore with just about ANYTHING if you do enough of it. It is sad because I see some pretty good DNA with these people, tall big boned genes, lots of potential wrapped around some fat. I think these trainers like well meaning priests do more harm than they will ever realise, their gospel is all wrong too.
I’ve done bosu ball balance exercises with light to moderate weights exclusively and my performance has skyrocketed. Power, speed, agility, muscular endurance. It’s no “fad” and if you get the right trainer (Gold’s, LA fitness, etc) it’s really not that hard.
For sure, all this guy knows is how to get stronger in 3 powerlifting movements. He's afraid that this sport is dying out and exposed in some areas (i.e. Jon Jones slowing down while coincidentally powerlifting more and focussing less on fighting technique). His ego is trying to keep his methodology on a pedestal while the science of sports and exercise evolves (but he doesn't)
Here's the flaw in Ripp's logic. Yes, it is true that the athletes recruited to play football at top football schools, such as Alabama, Georgia, Michigan, Ohio State, etc., are some of the very best football athletes in the U.S. What Ripp is saying here would have some creditibity IF these schools were playing against much less talented teams, such as, New Mexico State, Duke, UConn, etc. Georgia football players don't even have to lift, and they'd STILL easily dominate UConn players. However, this is not the case. Georgia must compete against Alabama. Michigan must compete against Ohio State, etc. So you got genetic freaks competing against other genetic freaks. So when you got elite competing against elite, then EVERYTHING becomes important - football coaching, strength and conditioning training, nutrition, everything.
How would this be implemented into a program for mma athletes in particular?? A video on this would be great if there isn't one already.
I'm not an SS Coach nor have I ever participated in MMA, but read Starting Strength and follow that program to a T. You'll run your novice linear progression out in about 18-24 weeks. When you've run that out, read Practical Programming and follow "advanced novice" to run it out just a bit further, probably another 8-16 weeks, depending on a number of factors. After that, some exercises can change to be specific to your sport, several examples are listed in practical programming.
Practical programming does list an MMA specific program. Don't start there: starting there is like trying to win Le Tour De France without a support crew, on a heavy walmart bike.
Build your support crew by running out Starting Strength novice linear progression.
Thanks. I'm familiar with novice progression as I'm no longer a novice, but would love a video from SS explaining how they would implement a strength and conditioning program for an MMA fighter as MMA is my favorite sport.
There really isnt, since SS is meant for general strength
A guy with one tool in the toolbox and no collegiate coaching experience talks about things that go on in weight rooms he's never visited and coaches he's never met. Fascinating.
and here we have a guy that clearly has no sense of criticism with regards to things other people tell him.
A quick google search gives one so much free knowledge..its incredible. He indeed has "collegiate coaching experience". Getting stronger is not a tool. If you wanna blame rippetoe for using his experience to get people strong, please continue to do bodybulding, use machines, or do pistols on top of a freaking kettlebell. Thats one guy less blocking a squat rack other people can use for something useful
Where has he coached in a collegiate setting?
What do you know about my background, experience, or ability to comment on what Rip is saying?
Squibby No he doesn’t. He doesn’t have any experience whatsoever coaching collegiate athletes. Having one or two train at his gym isn’t the same thing.
Jordan Jacobs You're exactly the type of gullible individual that Mark is talking about here who think that whatever you see top athletes do must be right and what so called experts say gotta be true as well. You can't argue against his idea so you're gonna attack his credentials? How about you start thinking with your own head and present to us your ideas as to why do you think he's wrong regardless of his resume.
I agree with labeling functional training as a fad, but Rips gotta realize teams like Alabam, Ohio State, Auburn already got guys who squat 6-700 plus, cleaning 365+, benching 405+ so why NOT give the body a break of the pounding one day and do some "functional movements" like a bosu pistol squat for ligament strength in the ankles, or banded core movements to change things up. I'm sure these guys dont use 5 pound physio ball jumps as the primary movement of the day. I guarentee thats secondary to whatever variation of the clean or squat they are working that day. Cant be afraid to learn, even Rip. The game changes man.
They don't need a break from doing nothing.
Those guys are not training. They are just demonstrating natural strength. There is no consistent and progressive stress being applied to need a break from.
Please feel free to share a link to where guys are regularly and properly training the lifts you mention at those kind of weights.
George Christiansen issue is they get beat up in practice so your trying to improve them while not adding wear and tear
lol at the guy with the crossfit hoodie on
Thats what sucks about powerlifting. unless you have the genetics its just not worth it. Im 30, been training for years and still cant quite get to a 500 lbs squat and then i seen some random 8th grader do it on the internet. You're life's work could be someone else's starting point.
They certainly don't get scholarships for being scholars! lol
Why is Mark overweight??
we don't take kindly to folks who don't hyyeeepp drraaavee around here
What? Why insult the football players as if they are all dumb? Cause they’re not.
I get the impression Rippetoe would have the NFL Deadlifting again then blame their technique when he injures athletes...
Mark needs to stop whining
slowfuse you spelt winning wrong....
I am indeed the first to comment
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