I requested from Gengar to use hypnosis on me because I was unable to sleep, but it missed. It's a good thing we have BKC videos to fall asleep to. He never misses.
0:08 Letting the days go by, bulky waters hold me down, letting the days go by, bulky Swampert Water/Ground, free to click Surf again, after the Blissey's gone, once in a lifetimeee
I don’t think it’s controversial to say that sleep, especially at a low accuracy, is no fun for someone no matter the outcome. At least when you Spore, you know exactly what’s going to happen when the turn commences.
Hypno gar is one of those mons that feels shit when I use it but broken when I play against it… for some reason opp hit hypnosis every time I play ladder without fail but when I use it I end up missing most the time or hitting lum tar and questioning my existence
banning all sleep is a huge nerf to hyper offense (smeargle, jynx, breloom, etc.) which is already a fairly fringe playstyle, hope the tiering mains don't try to force it
Don't mind nerfing an inherently fringe and largely inconsistent style then, that's what inherently called fishing, we cant have every style being good at all times
I was interested to know what you might think of hypnosis focus punch sets specifically, as gimmicky as they are. I feel like your videos have gotten more abstract and macroscopic, which is an interesting way to look at this - I was waiting for a look at how hypnogar handled/is handled by the metagame e.g. pursuittar, with without lum etc. Enjoyed the video
Gen 9 potentially getting sleep banned in earlier gens just feels like a microcosm of why older generations of people resent the next youngest generation
Random idea that someone more knowledgeable could tell me if its crazy: What if to make sleep less powerful in future generations, the games made sleep talk was not a move but the default behavior? Instead of your pokemon being entriely useless, it calls a random move, possibly with a chance to do nothing? It would still potentially have a niche of taking away your control, but would be more like a variation on confusion than the complete disable it is now?
Personally I think that would be pretty terrible. It feels like an even more degenerate gamble. As is, you can generally either bank on a sleeping mon: a) switching out b) staying asleep c) using a selected move a) you should have an idea of what might come in, and can utilize that information b) predictable, consistent non-advancement of the game state from the opponent c) similar to a, but with moves instead of switches If it's random then you have to gamble on them rolling an unfavourable random move or switching. It feels like a less stable risk management mechanic that doesn't really target the "real" problem with sleep, which is the combination of its suppression (unable to perform a desired action with your mon) and uncertainty (when will it wake up?). Making sleep weaker isn't really what I feel is important as much as making it more consistent so that decision making can be more streamlined instead of one side gambling on more sleep turns and one side gambling on fewer. I've felt for a while that if you take direct damage you should wake up, and that would make it more interesting (no changes otherwise) and introduce more engaging risk management. But really, sleep is kinda rotten to its core. Paralysis too for similar reasons IMO (I think some gigantic speed reduction without a chance full paralysis or perhaps an "every x turns you get paralyzed" mechanic would improve it) but that's another discussion. No hard feelings to you. Nobody had replied at the time I saw this though so I felt like I might as well weigh in.
I think gamefreak should change sleep to something resembling truant, only attacking every second turn. Switching out would cure it, just like confusion. I would also call it sleepyness instead of sleep
Yeah I think sleep is stupid but hypnosis is weirdly the most problematic sleep move of all despite being the worst sleep move on paper because there’s so many Pokémon that get it that are often good otherwise that it’s completely unreasonable to expect it coming and play around it.
I was running a defensive ice punch tbolt hypnosis bond Gengar with my hyper offensive smeargle lead team when i first got to 1600. It's good but not broken. Yeah it wins games but so does plenty of things
@LordBeau true. But I also have been laddering non stop for over a year. With about every archetype of team. Just love adv and weighing in. A comment wouldn't be the best way to flesh out my pov you're right there. Thanks for pointing that out
@@LordBeau I've made it to 1600 with multiple styles of teams.Abr used offensive smeargle in spl. I just like using every style. I'd say my main team type are suicune enabler snorlax teams
Possible hypnogar ban is funny cause it's not even something I suuuper agree with but I would not shed a tear to see it gone and I doubt most people would lol
As someone more used to RBY, it's weird to see people stay in with a sleeping mon and gamble on waking up while the opponent is setting up. But I guess ADV sleep isn't as crippling.
Between dislike for Scald and now dislike for hypnosis and freeze, maybe just make a video on whether status as a whole is broken. Prediction, the only one you will say is not broken is toxic. Probably.
I mean, if you think sleep and freeze are not broken then you're either clueless or in denial. And the hate for scald is specific for just scald and not burn as a whole.
Tail Glow, Shell Smash, Quiver Dance, Freeze and Sleep? Yes (in Gen V), yes, yes and 50/50. Hypnosis and even Sleep Powder itself, non-Rachi Serene Grace Burn and Para, aswell as Confusion? No. Of course there is major discussion to be held about this. Edit: Oh and Scald? Do I even need to say anything? Why is Generation 5 so... power creep incarnated? Wait. Incarnated... Incarnate... INCARNATE!! Edit Nr. Dos: Oh yeah, Toxic, Toxic. Toxic is okay. Status is the coolest. As a kid I said "Do you want to forget a move to learn Toxic? What's that? How much damage does that move do? ZERO!?? No way Crobat, you're not learning that."
Thats equivalent to the geo magazine headline 'IS EVOLUTION WRONG?' and the article starts with 'NO!'. In the words of the great dekzeh: 'sleep is broken, hypnosis it not'
I don't know if I would call it broken in the conventional sense, because compared to other broken things it lacks consistency and that 60% will balance itself out eventually, but it is definitely uncompetitive.
If there is a basket ball team with Michael Jordan, Shquile Oneil, Magic Johnson, LEdrom James, WIlt Chamberlain and Oscar ROberston.... That is Pokemon 3 OU
This is why I generally think Hypnosis should be banned, at least from gens 3-9 (obv sleep needs to be banned in 5 regardless). It's the sleep move on too powerful of things that's too much of a coin flip.
It's extremely annoying. Broken IDK, the risk/reward certainly feels terrible because of the way "sleep sacs" work and Gengar's role/capabilities in the meta (you talk about this at like 11:45 or so). It feels like the skills it emphasizes are the type of skills Smogon tries to mitigate, so yeah, I think it should be banned.
If you people want to play chess so bad then play chess, don't ban everything that has unreliable counterplay. Banning Pokemon like Cacturne or hypnosis Gengar, who are not broken, is against the spirit of this game. Risk management is a skill and that's what we are competing for. What's next? Removing critical hits? Reminds me of a quote from a great leader... "C'mon man!" - J. Biden
Damn, I guess we gotta unban evasion now. Either way, old gen tiering is dictated by what the playerbase wants rather than what is the most broken. So it really doesn't apply.
Hey kev could u make a video on how to break gsc stall cores that have spikes up and can switch almost infinitely? Edit: (Video topic discussion can lead into if spikes, hazards, and switching is broken or rewards good play/prediction)
I requested from Gengar to use hypnosis on me because I was unable to sleep, but it missed. It's a good thing we have BKC videos to fall asleep to. He never misses.
🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥
✍🏿🔥
Cooked like Kendrick
It doesn't check accuracy.
The answer depends on whether I beat or lost to the last hypnogar I faced
Schrodinger's Hynogar
😂😂😂 so true
So in other words, it's broken 60% of the time
It depends on if mine stole the last match or missed and got obliterated having accomplished nothing
Appearently BKC didn't get that joke, since it's not tagged.
0:08 Letting the days go by, bulky waters hold me down, letting the days go by, bulky Swampert Water/Ground, free to click Surf again, after the Blissey's gone, once in a lifetimeee
🗣🔥🔥🔥‼️
swampert dissolving (physical offense), swampert removing (DD Tyranitar)
same as it ever was🗣🔥‼️‼️
I don’t think it’s controversial to say that sleep, especially at a low accuracy, is no fun for someone no matter the outcome. At least when you Spore, you know exactly what’s going to happen when the turn commences.
Hypno gar is one of those mons that feels shit when I use it but broken when I play against it… for some reason opp hit hypnosis every time I play ladder without fail but when I use it I end up missing most the time or hitting lum tar and questioning my existence
McMeghan nicknaming his pokemons in the first replay of Planets (levels) from Ratchet & Clank is so wholesome.
Don’t think you know what wholesome means
My three favourite non pokemon gamea of all time
banning all sleep is a huge nerf to hyper offense (smeargle, jynx, breloom, etc.) which is already a fairly fringe playstyle, hope the tiering mains don't try to force it
Don't mind nerfing an inherently fringe and largely inconsistent style then, that's what inherently called fishing, we cant have every style being good at all times
Fuck Smeargle tbh
@@ilovemalaysiaThen just ban immaculate sleep moves instead
Just wanted to say, that I really appreciate the Talking Heads reference.
I imagine CyberOdin got really excited when he saw this title lol
I was interested to know what you might think of hypnosis focus punch sets specifically, as gimmicky as they are. I feel like your videos have gotten more abstract and macroscopic, which is an interesting way to look at this - I was waiting for a look at how hypnogar handled/is handled by the metagame e.g. pursuittar, with without lum etc. Enjoyed the video
I run hypnogar and sing Blissey on the same team because I have no respect for human life
take a look at this sand, take a look at this sand
the sand chips, the sand of a tyranitar man
well i’m a spinner, spore’d under punches, i can’t spin
Thank you BKC for your insight
the thought of regice running lum for gengar hypnosis is funny
The prevalence of natural cure mons in OU and lum berry on powerful mons makes it balanced.
Centralize the meta around blissey more yes poggers
Hey gengar can you help me sleep?
*misses hypnosis*
Not the first time but certainly the last
"Gengar used Hypnosis!"
"But it failed!"
"Gengar used Will-O-Wisp!"
"But it failed!"
"Gengar used Focus Blast!"
"But it failed!"
"Gengar used Shadow Ball!"
"But it failed!"
"Stantler used Bite!"
"A critical hit!"
In general sleep is not a fun or competitive mechanic. It's the epitome of relying on rng
Thank you for the talking heads reference in the intro lmao
Gen 9 potentially getting sleep banned in earlier gens just feels like a microcosm of why older generations of people resent the next youngest generation
Gen 5 already set the precedent for sleep bans
Random idea that someone more knowledgeable could tell me if its crazy: What if to make sleep less powerful in future generations, the games made sleep talk was not a move but the default behavior? Instead of your pokemon being entriely useless, it calls a random move, possibly with a chance to do nothing? It would still potentially have a niche of taking away your control, but would be more like a variation on confusion than the complete disable it is now?
Personally I think that would be pretty terrible. It feels like an even more degenerate gamble.
As is, you can generally either bank on a sleeping mon:
a) switching out
b) staying asleep
c) using a selected move
a) you should have an idea of what might come in, and can utilize that information
b) predictable, consistent non-advancement of the game state from the opponent
c) similar to a, but with moves instead of switches
If it's random then you have to gamble on them rolling an unfavourable random move or switching. It feels like a less stable risk management mechanic that doesn't really target the "real" problem with sleep, which is the combination of its suppression (unable to perform a desired action with your mon) and uncertainty (when will it wake up?).
Making sleep weaker isn't really what I feel is important as much as making it more consistent so that decision making can be more streamlined instead of one side gambling on more sleep turns and one side gambling on fewer. I've felt for a while that if you take direct damage you should wake up, and that would make it more interesting (no changes otherwise) and introduce more engaging risk management. But really, sleep is kinda rotten to its core. Paralysis too for similar reasons IMO (I think some gigantic speed reduction without a chance full paralysis or perhaps an "every x turns you get paralyzed" mechanic would improve it) but that's another discussion.
No hard feelings to you. Nobody had replied at the time I saw this though so I felt like I might as well weigh in.
I think gamefreak should change sleep to something resembling truant, only attacking every second turn. Switching out would cure it, just like confusion.
I would also call it sleepyness instead of sleep
I had no idea that anyone was interested in freeing Wynaut. This news makes me slightly disappointed in whoever suggested it
I did.
I would free him because he's such a cute little guy
I can only watch this video about 40% of the time, the other 60% I fall asleep and wake up with -20 ranked points on Showdown. Very strange.
Yeah I think sleep is stupid but hypnosis is weirdly the most problematic sleep move of all despite being the worst sleep move on paper because there’s so many Pokémon that get it that are often good otherwise that it’s completely unreasonable to expect it coming and play around it.
I was running a defensive ice punch tbolt hypnosis bond Gengar with my hyper offensive smeargle lead team when i first got to 1600. It's good but not broken. Yeah it wins games but so does plenty of things
You’re using a Smeargle team in best of 1 your opinion on balance is skewed at best
@LordBeau true. But I also have been laddering non stop for over a year.
With about every archetype of team.
Just love adv and weighing in. A comment wouldn't be the best way to flesh out my pov you're right there. Thanks for pointing that out
@@rainbowgg___ I don't even have a horse in the gengar race I just think smeargle users are worse players
@@LordBeau I've made it to 1600 with multiple styles of teams.Abr used offensive smeargle in spl. I just like using every style. I'd say my main team type are suicune enabler snorlax teams
@@rainbowgg___ and I’m currently 1700. Smeargle in best of 1 is matchup fishing at best
Possible hypnogar ban is funny cause it's not even something I suuuper agree with but I would not shed a tear to see it gone and I doubt most people would lol
As someone more used to RBY, it's weird to see people stay in with a sleeping mon and gamble on waking up while the opponent is setting up. But I guess ADV sleep isn't as crippling.
Between dislike for Scald and now dislike for hypnosis and freeze, maybe just make a video on whether status as a whole is broken.
Prediction, the only one you will say is not broken is toxic. Probably.
Toxic being the most manageable is correct unless you’re a special attacker (then it’s burn)
I mean, if you think sleep and freeze are not broken then you're either clueless or in denial. And the hate for scald is specific for just scald and not burn as a whole.
Tail Glow, Shell Smash, Quiver Dance, Freeze and Sleep? Yes (in Gen V), yes, yes and 50/50.
Hypnosis and even Sleep Powder itself, non-Rachi Serene Grace Burn and Para, aswell as Confusion? No.
Of course there is major discussion to be held about this.
Edit: Oh and Scald? Do I even need to say anything? Why is Generation 5 so... power creep incarnated?
Wait. Incarnated... Incarnate... INCARNATE!!
Edit Nr. Dos: Oh yeah, Toxic, Toxic. Toxic is okay.
Status is the coolest.
As a kid I said "Do you want to forget a move to learn Toxic? What's that? How much damage does that move do? ZERO!?? No way Crobat, you're not learning that."
See, BKC stands for Burger King Customer. I went there yesterday, I must also be a BKC.
Its broken 60% of the time
Thats equivalent to the geo magazine headline 'IS EVOLUTION WRONG?' and the article starts with 'NO!'. In the words of the great dekzeh: 'sleep is broken, hypnosis it not'
If im playing gengar then no.
If someone is using against me, its broken
what if gengar had 100bs in speed instead ?
talking heads reference in the intro? (:
“This is not my beautiful OU!”
Just woke up from three turns sleep 😴
WATER FLOWING UNDERGROUND!!!!
Into the blue again 🗣
It is broken 60% of the time
haha best conclusion
I don't know if I would call it broken in the conventional sense, because compared to other broken things it lacks consistency and that 60% will balance itself out eventually, but it is definitely uncompetitive.
Status in general in uncompetitive
21:15 Hey is that... Castlevania music?
If there is a basket ball team with Michael Jordan, Shquile Oneil, Magic Johnson, LEdrom James, WIlt Chamberlain and Oscar ROberston.... That is Pokemon 3 OU
Missed hypnosis 5 times in a game of adv so the answer is a resounding no.
Sick video. Need a new mic
BKC
This is why I generally think Hypnosis should be banned, at least from gens 3-9 (obv sleep needs to be banned in 5 regardless). It's the sleep move on too powerful of things that's too much of a coin flip.
I dont see the problem with keeping spore and banning all the other sleep moves
Hypnosis Bronzong is similarly obnoxious
Toxic is more needed to make progress. It’s not exactly iron valiant that forces switches
Hypnogar is ass.
Btw, was This a should hypnosis be Banned talk?
If So, then no, hypnosis is ass aswell. There is a reason it is so uncommon.
It's extremely annoying. Broken IDK, the risk/reward certainly feels terrible because of the way "sleep sacs" work and Gengar's role/capabilities in the meta (you talk about this at like 11:45 or so).
It feels like the skills it emphasizes are the type of skills Smogon tries to mitigate, so yeah, I think it should be banned.
same as it ever was
same as it ever was, here a twister comes, here comes the twister
I wouldn't say it's broken, Hypnosis is balanced by its poor accuracy and Gengar's frailty.
Is Hypnosis broken in ADV*
shiny snorlax is broken
60% of the time it works all the time
Imagine crying over hypnosis
If you people want to play chess so bad then play chess, don't ban everything that has unreliable counterplay. Banning Pokemon like Cacturne or hypnosis Gengar, who are not broken, is against the spirit of this game. Risk management is a skill and that's what we are competing for. What's next? Removing critical hits? Reminds me of a quote from a great leader... "C'mon man!" - J. Biden
Play the game
agreed absolutely
Damn, I guess we gotta unban evasion now.
Either way, old gen tiering is dictated by what the playerbase wants rather than what is the most broken. So it really doesn't apply.
cacturne is broken
Like this comment if you listen to BKC at the gym
Hey kev could u make a video on how to break gsc stall cores that have spikes up and can switch almost infinitely?
Edit:
(Video topic discussion can lead into if spikes, hazards, and switching is broken or rewards good play/prediction)
60% of the time it is, 40% isnt
BKC
BKC