As a.16 yr old in 19 72 I wanted to get a job fixing cars, so asked in the local garage center. Boss gave me an old carb and said "Strip that down, tell me what's wrong and maybe I'll hire you". By mostly intuitive guesswork I did so (Leaky float filling with fuel ). Boss came back and said, "Ok, now fix it and you're hired". Since that day I've rebuilt probably hundreds of carbs; they're marvels of engineering. Oh, and small Fiats are great cars, I particularly like a 127.
Drove an 850 spider across the country from NJ to Santa Monica and back in 1975 (was 19) and then back to Santa Monica in '76 where I sold it. It was de-badged and in primer and people were always asking me: "What is it?" Had Mobile 1 oil in it on the first trip and sometimes got 50 mpg. Blown head gasket in Colorado on first trip en route to CA (repaired by a shop in Denver) and dead starter on the return in Indiana - picked up a hitchhiker who helped by push starting the car all the way back to NJ. Fun times! Saw the car again in '78 parked in Santa Monica and was embarrassed to see that my bondo job on the driver's door was failing...
I am in awe of your car collection, both for its breadth and the fact that it’s so British and European. You may not produce the slickest car channel on TH-cam. However, yours is one of the most interesting and informative there is, and I enjoy it very much. Thanks.
I'm restoring one of these cars right now and I'm no mechanic. Need all the help I can get. So thank you for posting this one. Really enjoy your videos.
Glad you bought the Fiat it looks right at home in your collection. Easy to follow trouble shooting and some interesting facts on the Fiat oil filter system. Cannot let them sit too long or gaskets dry out.
Fiat 850 sport spider. Well they are great little cars, I do remember the tour of your Dad's collection. I have heard of this problem but never had to fix it as far as I can remember. She is now running and fixing the other issues will make it run quite well I think. Interesting video Steve, thank you for the detailed rebuild. 👍👍
You're lucky it came out on the ground as an early warning. My F600 had a leaky fuel pump, but I didn't know what to look for on the dipstick... Ended up having a couple gallons of fuel pump into the crankcase, which clearly was not ideal! The 850 looks really fun- I'll bet it's a good one to toss around roundabouts! Saw a beat up one next to a gas station up north and I wanted to save it... can't save em all. Not by myself anyway!
I had a great little 69 Fiat 850 Spider in 1972 in Phoenix. Had it for about six months and sold it. Back in Phoenix in 1975 and going through the local junkyard I found the Fiat again. Looked like it had an engine fire and was scrapped.
I have a 1970 Fiat 850 Sport Spider in my garage right now. My last re-build was in 2000. It has not been started since this re-build. I have the Weber 30 DICA off of the car and I will re-build it for the last time. I purchased the car in 1983 for one thousand dollars. I will be doing a very complete re-build on the carburetor. This time I will be Zinc Plating the body of the carburetor along with all the steel parts. I will offer these words of wisdom. If you have extra parts or have a place to purchase them cheap, get as many as you can. That carburetor, Weber 30 DICA is worth $750 to $1000 if you could buy one.
I had a '68 850 back in high school in 1972. I used to race Spritfires on the Saw Mill River Parkway in NY. Tons of fun. When I wasn't driving it I used to sit and watch it rust. Damn thing rusted away to nothing.
My cousin had a Fiat 850 spyder while he attended the Air Force Academy in Colorado Springs Colorado. I would see him once in a while and we would cruise around where I lived near Denver whenever he was in town. I later owned a Fiat 128 Sport L which is another one of the rare Fiats. I wish I could have kept my Fiat.
When I was 16 my dad bought a '71 850 Spider, "for the family" but I was the main driver. Tons of fun to drive but so light I could pick the front wheels off the ground by the front bumper. I did have a little trouble keeping it on the road a couple times, but I really tested the physics of it for sure. Without a doubt the LEAST reliable car I ever owned.
Bought one brand new in 1971. What I remember is how easy it was to work on. I could pull the engine by myself. Unique centrifugal oil filter in the crank pulley. Cool, but slow little car.
A friend/neighbour parked his car in a steep driveway, nose downhill. Fuel escaped out of the tank through the carb and into the motor. When he turned the key there was a huge bang which blew the valve covers off and dented to hood! The sump was bulged out as well.
I got my 69 Yellow 850 Coupe in Mar 1971 at almost 18. Used with I think 30K, sold in Santa Clara, CA B&B BMW. BMW's Top end ver then was about $5k then. I paid about $`=1450 They were eager to get it sold. It had the trademark FIAT Vinyl seats smell. They would sweat on the windows oily vinyl film. I had never seen one and needed a car. Seemed okay my friend had a 67 Bug. We had fun with it till I went to NJ at 18 in it in 1972 Feb winter probably got >30mpg and gas was under $200 I think, I kept expense notes. Only had a generator going bad for battery. I drove it back in June 72. It locked up solid in summer of 74 when I was on leave in NAVY; in the mountains at Night ABOUT 10:30 between Clear Lake and Woodland. CA in a nowhere land of moonlight. Luckily a Peterbilt Timber Hauler stopped and gave me a ride out since I had my flashers on. Those were the days- no cells. Just human beings. We towed it back to Woodland, (how??) I somehow got back to my base (Train/Bus?) in Pt Mugu. All on his own, My stepdad knew zero and had a friend haul it behind a truck and at 30mph popped the clutch and sent the rod and partial crank right thru the lower oil pan / block. Toasting it forever. I replaced it soon with a 69 Datsun 510 coupe like they were racing then, a much more reliable peppy car for same @ $1490 price from a dealer in Ventura (Hughes Motors). The Fiat was finally scrapped in 1976 before I went to France. And lost all my possessions (Parents are not stewards) I would have liked the Fiat124 Conv. but the 510 was safer and after I slapped a L20B engine in summer 77 and I was happy for a while till it to was driven to NJ in 1981 Sep, and never was able to retrieve from my dad's driveway. It became a rust victim from 82-86 when he mysteriously made it disappear without notice.
Sounds great Steve. But it seems you were drawing a blank what ever you tried . I guess you'll be keeping a close eye on the oil levels for a while. Thanks Steve.
That's a cute little machine. Have you positively identified the cause of the problem? It looked as though it somehow siphoned the fuel out of the tank.
I had one exactly like that for my first car I paid for. You cant fix everything. You just cant. They wont let you. And mine was only 10 years old back then!
Hi steve .I have had my boat with a volvo penta. The fuel sifined ir self and filled the engine.Couldnt find any problem.I presume the float stuck open. Drained it and it ran fine. Allways turn fuel tap off now.!.
That's a fairly catastrophic failure, you proved it drained the tank until it wouldn't start, the comment about "where did the oil leak" got me thinking. it was below the level of the pump so could have leaked past crank splash seals? but 3:47 "the pump was full of fuel" interpreted to below the diaphragm? possibly proven with blocking the pump inlet, and hand vacuum the outlet to see if it holds? i'm not seeing the possibility of a float needle draining below the carb. as the bowl is vented. lastly, how you finish removing the fuel, heat cycling to burn it off, then another oil change would be in order.
The oil was so thin it probably leaked from every seal and it has sat there leaking all winter so it is no surprise that you wouldn't see a trace of it after that amount of time with that much fuel in it washing the parts clean.
Float needle stuck and gas siphoned until gone. If the fuel tank is above the level of the float this is possible. I've had this issue on my Norton, not uncommon on motorcycles that use gravity fuel feed (no siphon needed).
I agree. This can't be through the carb. The only fuel in the carb is in the bowl. That's way too small to account for the amount of fuel in the crankcase.
Steve, QQ, for the average schmo who wants a car for both the fun of driving and for the maintenance amusement, would you recommend a Triumph, Fiat or MG? I know they all have their pluses and minuses, but I know many of us would be interested in your thoughts, however brief.
Great video but maybe you should use an independent mic because when you're close to it (00:32) it creates an unpleasant left-right swing, especially when using headphones. 7:50 It's sometimes unbalanced too.
Just because a car is cute, or tiny, or just old DOES NOT make it great, or classic. In the 70's it was widely known that the 850 was a POS. Its big brother, the 124 wasn't much better. My girlfriend back then had an 850 Spider and it was constantly breaking down and stranding her. More than a few times she would have to walk to the nearest phone booth (ask your mom) to call me to rescue her and deal with her broken down car. That's when I learned from a mechanic that FIAT stood for "Fix It Again, Tony". Her next car, at my urging, was a Karmann Ghia convertible. A far superior vehicle in the same price range. Infinitely more reliable, cheaper, and easier to fix. And back then you couldn't throw a cat without hitting a veedub mechanic here in California.
So, tell the truth, did you drop the oil drain plug into the waste oil like everbody else does. I’m in awe, no fear, a zillion parts on the table and all goes back together without pouring over the maintenance manual.
Unusually you did not really seem convinced that you had tracked the fault that caused the problem? The gasket in the carb seemed to be dodgy but an awful lot of fuel bypassed it. Your Dad knew what he was doing 😂
Sorry , but not ALL ITALIAN cars leak oil. I’ve owned Italian cars from Alfas, Fiats including a Fiat Dino with the Ferrari Dino V 6 engine. Only an Alfasud Sprint leaked but just prior to needing an engine rebuild. The rest of the time dry garage floors!
Ma se la membrana della pompa era rotta il carburante si scarica attraverso il foro che c'è nel corpo pompa sotto la membrana non arriva al carter perche' si scarica fuori sul riparo della marmitta. Il raccordo di ottone per l'arrivo della benzina ti conviene metterlo a vite con frena filetto è piu' sicuro, a me venne via mentre camminavo con le vibrazioni, meno male che il carburante non ando' sulle candele se no prendeva fuoco tutto il motore.
@@ThisWeekWithCars La scintilla è ovvio che non c'è all'esterno della candela, a meno che non disperda la candela, ma se va benzina a bagnare il contatto del cavetto con il terminale della candela li' c'è corrente e puo' prendere fuoco, io ho dato un consiglio di mia esperienza poi fate come vi pare.
As a.16 yr old in 19 72 I wanted to get a job fixing cars, so asked in the local garage center. Boss gave me an old carb and said "Strip that down, tell me what's wrong and maybe I'll hire you". By mostly intuitive guesswork I did so (Leaky float filling with fuel ). Boss came back and said, "Ok, now fix it and you're hired". Since that day I've rebuilt probably hundreds of carbs; they're marvels of engineering. Oh, and small Fiats are great cars, I particularly like a 127.
Drove an 850 spider across the country from NJ to Santa Monica and back in 1975 (was 19) and then back to Santa Monica in '76 where I sold it. It was de-badged and in primer and people were always asking me: "What is it?" Had Mobile 1 oil in it on the first trip and sometimes got 50 mpg. Blown head gasket in Colorado on first trip en route to CA (repaired by a shop in Denver) and dead starter on the return in Indiana - picked up a hitchhiker who helped by push starting the car all the way back to NJ. Fun times! Saw the car again in '78 parked in Santa Monica and was embarrassed to see that my bondo job on the driver's door was failing...
I am in awe of your car collection, both for its breadth and the fact that it’s so British and European. You may not produce the slickest car channel on TH-cam. However, yours is one of the most interesting and informative there is, and I enjoy it very much. Thanks.
The 850 is a classic. Good work tracking down the fuel gremlins.
What sweet running engine that Fiat has.
I'd sure like to see more on this one Steve.
I certainly respect you keeping the classic cars alive!
I'm restoring one of these cars right now and I'm no mechanic. Need all the help I can get. So thank you for posting this one. Really enjoy your videos.
Absolutely the best styling job ever done on a tiny car. Bertone at his very best. And a ton of fun to drive!
Favourite teacher in grade skule had one in the lime green, hubby had a 6.3 Merc.
Glad you bought the Fiat it looks right at home in your collection. Easy to follow trouble shooting and some interesting facts on the Fiat oil filter system. Cannot let them sit too long or gaskets dry out.
Fiat 850 sport spider. Well they are great little cars, I do remember the tour of your Dad's collection. I have heard of this problem but never had to fix it as far as I can remember. She is now running and fixing the other issues will make it run quite well I think. Interesting video Steve, thank you for the detailed rebuild. 👍👍
You're lucky it came out on the ground as an early warning. My F600 had a leaky fuel pump, but I didn't know what to look for on the dipstick... Ended up having a couple gallons of fuel pump into the crankcase, which clearly was not ideal! The 850 looks really fun- I'll bet it's a good one to toss around roundabouts! Saw a beat up one next to a gas station up north and I wanted to save it... can't save em all. Not by myself anyway!
I had a great little 69 Fiat 850 Spider in 1972 in Phoenix. Had it for about six months and sold it. Back in Phoenix in 1975 and going through the local junkyard I found the Fiat again. Looked like it had an engine fire and was scrapped.
I have a 1970 Fiat 850 Sport Spider in my garage right now. My last re-build was in 2000. It has not been started since this re-build. I have the Weber 30 DICA off of the car and I will re-build it for the last time. I purchased the car in 1983 for one thousand dollars. I will be doing a very complete re-build on the carburetor. This time I will be Zinc Plating the body of the carburetor along with all the steel parts. I will offer these words of wisdom. If you have extra parts or have a place to purchase them cheap, get as many as you can. That carburetor, Weber 30 DICA is worth $750 to $1000 if you could buy one.
I had a '68 850 back in high school in 1972. I used to race Spritfires on the Saw Mill River Parkway in NY. Tons of fun. When I wasn't driving it I used to sit and watch it rust. Damn thing rusted away to nothing.
Interesting to see the differences in the engine bay between an Italian car and the British cars.
My cousin had a Fiat 850 spyder while he attended the Air Force Academy in Colorado Springs Colorado. I would see him once in a while and we would cruise around where I lived near Denver whenever he was in town. I later owned a Fiat 128 Sport L which is another one of the rare Fiats. I wish I could have kept my Fiat.
Fiat 850 Sport Spider the Little Ferrari was to call in 60' years in USA !
When I was 16 my dad bought a '71 850 Spider, "for the family" but I was the main driver. Tons of fun to drive but so light I could pick the front wheels off the ground by the front bumper. I did have a little trouble keeping it on the road a couple times, but I really tested the physics of it for sure. Without a doubt the LEAST reliable car I ever owned.
I really like when you make a longer more inclusive video like this one! Thank you! That Fiat is sweet!
Bought one brand new in 1971. What I remember is how easy it was to work on. I could pull the engine by myself. Unique centrifugal oil filter in the crank pulley. Cool, but slow little car.
A friend/neighbour parked his car in a steep driveway, nose downhill. Fuel escaped out of the tank through the carb and into the motor. When he turned the key there was a huge bang which blew the valve covers off and dented to hood! The sump was bulged out as well.
Holy crap. I bet that made them jump! 😂
Had an 850 Spider Fastback, loved it.
I got my 69 Yellow 850 Coupe in Mar 1971 at almost 18. Used with I think 30K, sold in Santa Clara, CA B&B BMW. BMW's Top end ver then was about $5k then. I paid about $`=1450 They were eager to get it sold. It had the trademark FIAT Vinyl seats smell. They would sweat on the windows oily vinyl film. I had never seen one and needed a car. Seemed okay my friend had a 67 Bug. We had fun with it till I went to NJ at 18 in it in 1972 Feb winter probably got >30mpg and gas was under $200 I think, I kept expense notes. Only had a generator going bad for battery. I drove it back in June 72. It locked up solid in summer of 74 when I was on leave in NAVY; in the mountains at Night ABOUT 10:30 between Clear Lake and Woodland. CA in a nowhere land of moonlight. Luckily a Peterbilt Timber Hauler stopped and gave me a ride out since I had my flashers on. Those were the days- no cells. Just human beings. We towed it back to Woodland, (how??) I somehow got back to my base (Train/Bus?) in Pt Mugu. All on his own, My stepdad knew zero and had a friend haul it behind a truck and at 30mph popped the clutch and sent the rod and partial crank right thru the lower oil pan / block. Toasting it forever. I replaced it soon with a 69 Datsun 510 coupe like they were racing then, a much more reliable peppy car for same @ $1490 price from a dealer in Ventura (Hughes Motors). The Fiat was finally scrapped in 1976 before I went to France. And lost all my possessions (Parents are not stewards) I would have liked the Fiat124 Conv. but the 510 was safer and after I slapped a L20B engine in summer 77 and I was happy for a while till it to was driven to NJ in 1981 Sep, and never was able to retrieve from my dad's driveway. It became a rust victim from 82-86 when he mysteriously made it disappear without notice.
I think I had 6 fiat 850's and they were all perfectly reliable and I never had any electrical issues.
Great little cars! Love to see more of this one!
Sounds great Steve. But it seems you were drawing a blank what ever you tried . I guess you'll be keeping a close eye on the oil levels for a while. Thanks Steve.
That's a cute little machine. Have you positively identified the cause of the problem? It looked as though it somehow siphoned the fuel out of the tank.
Nice little car, never seen one in the UK, we only got the 850 coupe back in the day.
What a lovely car, one more shiny engine design from Dante Giacosa😮. Thanks to keep it alive!
That engine sounds really good!
I had one exactly like that for my first car I paid for. You cant fix everything. You just cant. They wont let you. And mine was only 10 years old back then!
My first car was a 69 Spider. Suffered from vapor lock on long trips.
love the 850 Spider. A really pretty car
Hi steve .I have had my boat with a volvo penta.
The fuel sifined ir self and filled the engine.Couldnt find any problem.I presume the float stuck open.
Drained it and it ran fine.
Allways turn fuel tap off now.!.
Check venting in the fuel tank. The cap or other line. Usually the new mix of gases today melts rubber parts in the gas cap and plugs it.
amazing car one of a few that the engine rotates anticlockwise great video
That's a fairly catastrophic failure, you proved it drained the tank until it wouldn't start, the comment about "where did the oil leak" got me thinking. it was below the level of the pump so could have leaked past crank splash seals? but 3:47 "the pump was full of fuel" interpreted to below the diaphragm? possibly proven with blocking the pump inlet, and hand vacuum the outlet to see if it holds? i'm not seeing the possibility of a float needle draining below the carb. as the bowl is vented.
lastly, how you finish removing the fuel, heat cycling to burn it off, then another oil change would be in order.
The oil was so thin it probably leaked from every seal and it has sat there leaking all winter so it is no surprise that you wouldn't see a trace of it after that amount of time with that much fuel in it washing the parts clean.
Your videos are so educational!
I'm restoring mine so definitely like to see more on this car.
Float needle stuck and gas siphoned until gone. If the fuel tank is above the level of the float this is possible. I've had this issue on my Norton, not uncommon on motorcycles that use gravity fuel feed (no siphon needed).
I,m sure you probably considered this already, you're a much more adept mechanic than myself.
I used to have a '67 hardtop 850. Definitely a love-hate relationship. :)
That was my first car. It was very cool to drive with the top down all winter. 😎
Looks like a fun, tiny car... Lol. Nice approach to repair & diagnosis. Thanx !
Thanks Steve. I really appeciate your videos. I always learn a lot.
Great video! Yes, keep working on this one.
Very interesting, I have the same issue on my 73 VW, I hadn't considered it could be an issue with the carb!
The fuel tank in the engine bay, if the tank cap is badly vented the fuel expands in the tank due to heat and pushes fuel past the carb float .
Great video, Steve! Your collection is superb! In the Fiat, where was the keak? If you leave it standing will the same thing happen again?
Love the 850! Mine had the same issue, mechanical pump faulty! It'sthe only way it fills up, the carburetor is tto high and normally dries out.
I agree. This can't be through the carb. The only fuel in the carb is in the bowl. That's way too small to account for the amount of fuel in the crankcase.
Great video and nice learning session
Sweet sounding engine, nice trouble shooting!
Love this little spider
Steve, QQ, for the average schmo who wants a car for both the fun of driving and for the maintenance amusement, would you recommend a Triumph, Fiat or MG? I know they all have their pluses and minuses, but I know many of us would be interested in your thoughts, however brief.
MG, better build quality, parts availability, and the parts are cheaper
@@ThisWeekWithCars thanks, Steve!
Fuel filter looks on camera mighty close to the spinning belt pulley 😮
I’ve always loved the looks of the 850 Spider but my 34” inseam prevented me from owning one.
what a lovely little car!!
Now you have a bunch of two stroke fuel!!
If you put 2 stroke oil in the tank like a Vespa that might help the main bearings. It is Italian :)
Great video but maybe you should use an independent mic because when you're close to it (00:32) it creates an unpleasant left-right swing, especially when using headphones.
7:50 It's sometimes unbalanced too.
I'd have bet money on it being the fuel pump as I've seen it on a Fiat 125 that I owned as well as other Fiats. Those fuel pumps don't like being dry!
Those are fun little cars! I still have my 124 and a spare 124. 16:35 I hope you didn't "drive" that on the lift with the crankcase full of fuel?
Just because a car is cute, or tiny, or just old DOES NOT make it great, or classic. In the 70's it was widely known that the 850 was a POS. Its big brother, the 124 wasn't much better. My girlfriend back then had an 850 Spider and it was constantly breaking down and stranding her. More than a few times she would have to walk to the nearest phone booth (ask your mom) to call me to rescue her and deal with her broken down car. That's when I learned from a mechanic that FIAT stood for "Fix It Again, Tony". Her next car, at my urging, was a Karmann Ghia convertible. A far superior vehicle in the same price range. Infinitely more reliable, cheaper, and easier to fix. And back then you couldn't throw a cat without hitting a veedub mechanic here in California.
That is not a leak it is just marking its terrorty.
I have a facination with these little cars, but I want to do a VW air cooled motor swap. I've got my eye out for one that's in rough shape.
Bell video grazie
Stop up the output side of the pump, air pressure on the inflow side, you can hear the leak.
Where was the oil/gas on the floor exiting the engine?
nice looking car
So, tell the truth, did you drop the oil drain plug into the waste oil like everbody else does. I’m in awe, no fear, a zillion parts on the table and all goes back together without pouring over the maintenance manual.
No I didn't drop the plug that is why the oil/fuel when all over my hands
Nice car!
I want to see you RACE IT!!
Unusually you did not really seem convinced that you had tracked the fault that caused the problem? The gasket in the carb seemed to be dodgy but an awful lot of fuel bypassed it. Your Dad knew what he was doing 😂
It needs replacing replacing, replaced is a past tense
Seems an Iowan phrase - needs replaced. Kevin at Junkyard Digs says it also.
Sorry , but not ALL ITALIAN cars leak oil. I’ve owned Italian cars from Alfas, Fiats including a Fiat Dino with the Ferrari Dino V 6 engine. Only an Alfasud Sprint leaked but just prior to needing an engine rebuild. The rest of the time dry garage floors!
didn't expect to see problems caused by fuel IN the carb...isn't nature wonderful?
Bet you can't find a rust free 124 Sport Coupe
A very nice car
Oil leaks? Electrical problems? It's a British car!
Might be the fuel cap
4:58
Surely that's a tear in the diaphragm ...??
what locale uses your speech
Is it similar with alfa romeo spyder?
No the Fiat 124 and 2000 spider are similar to the Alfa Romeo Spider.
Ma se la membrana della pompa era rotta il carburante si scarica attraverso il foro che c'è nel corpo pompa sotto la membrana non arriva al carter perche' si scarica fuori sul riparo della marmitta. Il raccordo di ottone per l'arrivo della benzina ti conviene metterlo a vite con frena filetto è piu' sicuro, a me venne via mentre camminavo con le vibrazioni, meno male che il carburante non ando' sulle candele se no prendeva fuoco tutto il motore.
Non c'è scintilla esterna alle candele, non prenderebbe fuoco dalla candela.
@@ThisWeekWithCars La scintilla è ovvio che non c'è all'esterno della candela, a meno che non disperda la candela, ma se va benzina a bagnare il contatto del cavetto con il terminale della candela li' c'è corrente e puo' prendere fuoco, io ho dato un consiglio di mia esperienza poi fate come vi pare.
You gonna bill your old man for the repairs?
I wish
First thing to do is clean up the raw gas on the floor