It’s videos like this that made me feel sane for feeling “ not like other girls”. I had PCOS symptoms for 27 years. I never was feminine like my friends, I was hairy chined, taller and built like a liner backer ( I am so much stronger due to all of the testosterone) i sweat like a pig. I felt like a failure of being a woman. Thank you for this vid, I now see that I am neither crazy or a failure. I can be free to be me.
Based on this point of view, menopause would be intersex. Instead of thinking of male and female as being such boxes that there is no wiggle room, why not expand the box to recognize that part of being a woman is that we are constantly changing from puberty through menopause. Why can't a woman who is hairy chinned, taller and built like a linebacker, be just as much of a woman as a delicate ballerina? Because when it comes time for menopause, women become unable to become pregnant naturally, can become hairy- chinned, clumsy, sweat like a pig, and have problems with body odor. Our entire relationship with our female bodies change. Have we somehow become not women? Not female? No. The concern I have with videos like this, is that somehow they do exactly what they propose to be fighting against, that is, reinforce a very limited idea of what it means to be a woman or a man. For instance, who says any woman always "feels like a woman"? What exactly does that mean? Since feelings can be influenced by so many things, from the amount of sleep, to music or TV, to food or medicine, or even the weather, or by the actions of others, why would we use feelings to determine whether or not we're a female? Anyway, since when did our definitions of male or female, man or woman ultimately come down to a decision based on our feelings? For instance, the term "Mama Bear" exists for a reason - that somehow inside of a woman was a capacity for fierceness, strength, largeness, aggression - what could be seen as typically male characteristics. So if a woman was known to be able to become a mama bear, so to speak, then these features were already inside ready to come out if necessary. That means as women these were part of us in the first place. By extension, that means that there must be a rightful place in the definition of woman for individuals with PCOS. In other words, what does it mean to feel like a woman? Well, how do you feel right now?
you are not stronger and smell like pig because of testosterone. Testosterone doesn't any effect on muscle as you thought. It just increases protein synthesis. Estrogen also increases protein synthesis. It's unbelievable that you people accept these things. Testosterone is linked to muscle mass because in society ''people who produce testosterone in their genitals have more muscle'' not because it's a biological fact.
Thank you for this video. 🖤 People often do not realize or reflect upon how isolating and harmful it can be to not see oneself reflected in media during an age where media surrounds us. Or even worse, to have oneself represented in harmful/negative ways through media. I definitely have experienced that throughout most of my life, as I'm sure many others have. It's so relieving and validating to see individuals putting out content like this. Just know that I appreciate you so much, and you made my day significantly better, thank you. 🖤
I feel like we have kind of the same thing in the disability community were deciding who is or not chronically ill or disabled based on diagnosis doesn't make total sens in many case. It's much more interesting to look at lived experienced, and sometimes people with different diagnoses have experience much more similar than some people with the same diagnosis !
i can relate to lived experience being much more helpful to learn from than just a diagnosis with disability. ive been diagnosed as single sided deaf (SSD) my whole life, but never recieved accomodations and was raised oral and mainstream, so i just assumed i lived like a hearing person. cut to 2020 and i start talking with d/hh people on discord more and more and learn about what they go through, and see that i share so so many struggles with them, and i was able to accept my identity as a hard of hearing person
I've been wondering about this a lot. A lot of people insist PCOS isn't intersex because there are too many of us and it's puberty onset usually but I keep my hair short and dress in masculine clothing and I usually pass as a man even when people can see my breasts because my voice dropped to male* levels, I have a beard and thick body hair, I smell like a dude etc. I don't see how that could be anything else.
the argument about there being too many people with PCOS to fit in the intersex label is truly ridiculous. the more people there are in any minority group, the more they can claim some leverage over medical professionals and policy makers. and intersex people are a very small minority in every country. i'm sure other people's personal experiences with PCOS differ from yours, but as an advocacy tactic i think it's worth considering
I hope the attitude expressed in the video becomes widely accepted. Yes there are degrees" but there are other factors, such as the non acceptance or bullying within Society. Numbers shouldn't count.
Hey I just found this video, I wrote the article about PCOS and intersex by the black youth project. I get a lot of really strong opinions about it and if you have any thoughts or critiques about it I would love to hear them. I think about writing a follow up to it sometimes as well.
Hi Gillian! It's awesome to hear from you because I loved your article. I get some of the strongest/most polar opinions on this video as well... Completely agree that medical knowledge is socially and culturally influenced. That gets into the politics of who gets to decide who is "intersex enough," and often anger against intersex affiliation by those who have been led to believe that "intersex" is somehow incompatible or contrary to "woman." (I most often see cisgender, straight women with PCOS feeling this way.) That's also very informed by how things are medically framed, with intersex being positioned as "those crazy activists over there" with only the "most extreme" sex variations, or being inherently/always gender diverse. But IMO, intersex is simply a movement for acceptance and bodily autonomy, made up of people from all over the spectrum. And in my experience that absolutely can and does include PCOS folks who opt in. Would be eager to read anything else you write.
Thanks for this. I would note it isn't just facial hair. As a teenager I had large breasts but a large stomach (male), horrible cystic acne (again male), thinning hair (male). I was told my testosterone was off the charts and put on estrogen at 20 but it wasn't until ten years later and a random test in Germany that I was diagnosed with PCOS. My husband translated to me in English that "my hormones were more male than female" so it would be very difficult for me to have children. Just thought I would share. It's interesting to think about.
There are women out there with large bellies who do not have PCOS . Always have been. And women with acne who do not have PCOS. You are a woman with a hormonal imbalance, as am I and every other woman with PCOS
It does not mean that you have more male hormone than female. It means your ovaries are malfunctioning. The big belly is caused by having cysts on your ovaries. You don't even have to have PCOS to have cysts on your ovaries and it always causes a big belly and you can have high testosterone without any other thing indicative of being intersexed. PCOS is not a symptom of being intersexed nor is high testosterone in a woman. You shouldn't be looking for information about your condition on TH-cam. Talk to your doctor.
@@melissamilam2294 You are wrong. The large belly is not caused by cysts, the cysts never grow to that size. The stomach fat is caused by hyperinsulinemia which is a type of hormone imbalance. Get your facts straight before spreading misinformation.
@@melissamilam2294 1. clearly you did not watch the video and understand what defines intersex 2. you are wrong, PCOS is not defined by having cysts and 'malfunctioning ovaries', it is a endocrine and metabolic disorder and you can have PCOS without having any cysts, cysts are just a symptom of the condition
BESTIE THANK YOU!! FINALLY SOMEONE GETS IT! I seriously can’t believe all the gatekeeping going on in this discussion, plus the angry TERFs thinking their femininity is being taken away when it’s not. I’ve had facial hair since the 2020s and have natural male hormones when I was born a female, using the intersex label makes me pretty comfortable and makes sense for me
It's not gatekeeping its science. You're only intersexed if your chromosomes say you are. You can be non-binary but you can't wish yourself intersexed.
Thank you for this video. I have PCOS marked by very light/nonexistent periods, acne, and some ovarian cysts shown via ultrasound. I haven't had a blood test done (yet) to show hormone and glucose levels, but lately I've been reflecting on my life and childhood a lot. Before I learned that some consider PCOS to be under the intersex umbrella, I had been wondering if I'm agender; I've never felt fully comfortable in (traditionally) feminine activities and terms, but I also haven't felt a resonance with the masculine as well. I learned only last night via a TikTok comment that some cysters consider themselves as intersex, and now I'm devouring as much as I can on the topic. I appreciate your clarity and insights.
Omg THANK YOU so much for this! I have PCOS (without the actual cysts thankfully) with male pattern body & facial hair growth, and the feeling that I should have/psychologically do have both sets of genitalia. I've seen so many people saying that PCOS doesn't count as intersex and it's disrespectful (to both groups, somehow??) to claim otherwise, but honestly calling myself intersex sparks so much more gender euphoria than just non-binary or androgyne. At the end of the day, even if it's on a milder level than some cases, my body has developed with a blend of opposite sex-typical traits and in my case that feels directly connected to my male-female blended gender identity. 💖
@@miakeys4280 I'm glad for you! It's so stupid how much stigma gets thrown at hairy AFABs considering 1/10 of us get some level of facial hair naturally. But people just ignore that fact and act like it's something super weird and rare. 🙄 Shaving body hair literally didn't even become a thing until the 1940s, and razor companies managed to convince everyone that female body hair was gross so they could make money off it. There are now even some men oblivious enough to think that the XY are the only ones who biologically grow it in the first place. At all. They think we're supposed to look like Barbie dolls. It's absurd. I think we should be proud of our bodies the way they are, no need to let ignorant people get snippy with us about it. My hairiness just makes me feel like a badass wolf of a person who happens to be female. 😁 I'm lucky I was raised to always have confidence in myself in all my glorious uniqueness, and not let people pick on me for BS reasons. And it'll help ward off romantic attention from the kind of shallow ignorant plonkers who I wouldn't want to go out with anyway. I've been attracted to many different kinds of people appearance-wise, so I know that society's obsession over beauty standards is just some crap they've pulled out of their arse and spread around, acting like everyone needs to agree with the arbitrary 'norm' about what traits can/can't be attractive. And idk if having a big clit has any advantages aside from making it easier to find, but I'm proud of that too. Because why not?
I have a severe PCOS. Diagnosed at 20, so quite early in my life. I identify as a feminine Lesbian, but my experience is that, sometimes, I feel the need to dress more comfortably, in pants and shirts, as opposed to dresses and skirts. Also, I've done a great deal of core strength training, and discover a masculine energy in that. PCOS has resulted in excessive facial hair growth for me, which is painful to remove. I also experience hormone surges after a menstrual period, which I would consider to be a male energy surge. Thank you for reading this, and to sharing a clear definition of intersex with us all. Not sure I can define my experience as one of Intersex, but i have certainly experienced my sexual identity as being something fluid.
@@blacktigerpaw1 yes, I think that's a pretty accurate way to describe the science of Intersex as versus a condition like PCOS,which medicine describes as an umbrella term for a set of disordered hormone levels. It is not, technically, a way of life. People are born with gene sequences which are neither traditional sign of male or female. No disrespect to those who identify as Intersex
@@blacktigerpaw1 thanks, I apologise for any ignorance on my part. There's a documentary on BBC which follows three people, and describes that Intersex is a chromosome abnormality. It explains this fact pretty clearly. And, yes, that term,THIRD SEX is horrible, isn't it?
Thank you so much for this! I'm in my 40's and I have PCOS with low estrogen and unnaturally high testosterone. I have battled the ovarian cysts and a hairy body since my teens. I didn't find out though that I had PCOS until I found out that I had endometrial cancer when i was 32. I ended up having a total hysterectomy. Nowadays, I have hair on my neck, a moustache with a beard and a deep voice that I can't control. I did have a daughter in my early 20's and now she's in her adult years showing the same symptoms I did and still do.
I was assigned female at birth but since I was roughly 12 or so I grew "oddly". I'm big, have light chest hair and at 23 I ended up growing facial hair. My doctor says its PCOS. I don't know if I want the label Intersex but it'd probably fit me.
I have PCOS and I'm nonbinary and transitioning to have a more androgynous body. I use they/them pronouns and always felt affirmed by the deeper voice, thicker and faster hair growth, the infertility, the high testosterone, etc. I never really felt like a girl and puberty definitely sparked the beginning of my gender dysphoria to a more intense level. The odd relief I felt when I was diagnosed with PCOS was insane, so I could argue that physically in some sense, I was truly on the spectrum between male and female. Thanks for this video!
Thank you for this video. As a trans guy who had PCOS then an oophorectomy.... I think it definitely made things different for me. Bodies are weird. I got them to give me the before and after laparoscopic images.
I had a laproscopy and they showed me pics inside me, I almost fainted. 🤣 Unrelated to the video topic, it just made me lightheaded to see my guts. Isn't it wild?
If you don't mind me asking. What differences in experience are there between higher testosterone levels with PCOS that occured on their own and HRT testosterone (if you have chosen that). Do you feel the same or is HRT way more intense?
Was always “flat” and kinda underdeveloped until I started birth control at 17. I was never formally diagnosed with PCOS but was presumed to have it because it runs in my family. I’ve been taking birth control since then and found out today it could be considered under the intersex umbrella. It makes me wonder if I would have developed the same without birth control. I still had a gender identity crisis this past year despite being on estrogen, and I do find it interesting that people with PCOS are more likely to be queer. I have recently become more comfortable with my androgyny but still somewhat identify with being a woman, but learning this has been somewhat validating for my experiences I’ve had feeling like I don’t fit into a box. I’m a public health major so I tend to think more in medical terms, but I appreciate you talking about the social implications of being intersex and that it isn’t so black and white. Terrified to get off of the pill because of how horrendous my periods used to be, but also curious. For now I am lucky to not feel much bodily dysphoria despite the changes it’s gone through due to birth control. My gender non-conformity has more to do with the way I am perceived in social spaces and the way I think of myself. Needless to say gender and sex identity in relation to PCOS is a conversation that needs to be had more because I feel many afab people could relate to a queer or intersex experience
Hi I am 16 and before I went on birth control I was flat chested to 😭 I have been rlly struggling with my body image due to pcos along with my sexuality I noticed u mentioned about being queer and the effect of pcos and I just wanted to say I find that interesting and has made me think about things :)
@@Lily.567 body image can be tough to navigate for sure, but I think with time the more you appreciate your body for what it does for you, it’ll get better! And as for sexuality, I’m sure you’ll figure that out with time, too! :)
@@dizzygirlsweats thank you for replying :) I just wanted to ask if u had noticed a change in voice as I have heard that pcos can deepen your voice and ngl I am scared that will happen 😭also did u suffer from hair loss ,sorry if it is a bit to personal
thank you for the very concise help ! i have had PCOS symptoms since puberty at around age 13, self-diagnosed with it since maybe 15 or 16, and only recently at age 23 have been professionally diagnosed with it. i still have lots of doctors visits to go through, and i'm really not sure about what kind of hormone replacement therapy i want yet, so while i'm kind of nervous and uncertain about it i'm also thankful i'm able to make the decision myself. with the way my PCOS presents i would definitely consider myself intersex, but i can totally understand other people with PCOS not identifying that way considering the criteria for PCOS diagnosis and range of different symptoms and experiences people can have
Thank you for this video! I was very recently diagnosed with PCOS (like a few weeks ago), and I also have been diagnosed with Hashimoto’s for a while. It’s scary and kind of disheartening, because I’m only 16. Both of these disorders messed with my hormones, and I’ve been having symptoms since about the start of my puberty. According to my bloodwork I have extremely high testosterone levels, to the point that I have to be on birth control for pretty much the rest of my life so I don’t suffer things like heart attacks. It’s kind of like athletes who take high levels of steroids lol I have almost nonexistent periods, hair growth, a deep voice, etc. Over the past couple years I’ve been very confused about my gender identity. This video has given me a bit more reassurance in myself! Thank you again
Hi I’m 16 and I hate having pcos ,it is so hard 😭I just wanted to ask if birth control helped your pcos and when u say your voice got deep do u mean u still sounded like a girl it was just deep or did u sound like a man .Sorry If that is to personal u don’t have to answer.We are in this together !
I have severe PCOS - I was officially diagnosed in my mid-teens, but I had been going to the doctors since I was 10 because of it. I experienced (and still do, to a degree) severe headaches and migraines often due to it - I was a given medication at 10-11 to lessen the testosterone production in my body so my headaches and migraines would lessen, which I'm still using everyday. (This is a symptom/side effect of PCOS I've been told about for years, and a reputable source in my language also mentions it in their description of PCOS - strangely enough though, I barely ever see it mentioned when people discuss the topic in English, and I don't personally know other people with PCOS to ask if it aligns with their experience too.) Part of it was also the amount of hair I had started to get all over my body and face - puberty started early for me, before the age of 10. I never had periods until I was 16, when I was given my PCOS diagnosis as well as hormonal treatment (in the form of birth control pills). Even with the hormones, I've never had consistent periods - at one point, I had period symptoms ongoing for a whole month with varying levels of cramps and bleeding. After trying various other pills, I finally have one where my blood pressure isn't high af - with them, I barely experience any periods. I wouldn't experience any if I wasn't using them - one time I was off of them for over a month, and I definitely felt the testosterone in my body increasing by the end of it (similar experience to my transmasc friends first starting hormone treatments). My body hair growth is high, as well as my facial hair. I've always been shamed for those things from a young age, having people around me encouraging waxing them before I even reached my teens. I always felt alienated from my friends for not having periods and not being able to understand what they were talking about, among other physical things that were normal for them yet seemed strange to me. I also often feel sort of alienated from PCOS talk, as many times it is from the pov of cishet women with PCOS, who may not have as severe symptoms as me and may even call it "women who suffer from PCOS" - which I find upsetting to hear, as even if I understand why people may say that and I understand the often negative perceptions of it, for me it's simply the way my body has always been. (I'm fine if you're speaking about your own body and experiences, those are valid feelings! My issue is when this is sometimes the only way the PCOS experience is spoken about, especially by those who don't have it themselves and may often work with people with PCOS.) The first time I truly felt validated about my body and experiences was when I stumbled across the intersex community on TikTok. For once it felt like there were people who really understood my experiences, and it made me feel so much better about the parts of my body I've been shamed about my whole life. Seeing people be proud of their facial hair made me feel excited about mine. I've grown to appreciate the way I am since, and enjoy the masculine parts of my body I wasn't given the space to enjoy when I was young. So yes, I definitely feel myself align more with intersex people/intersex women rather than with cis women - even cis women with pcos. (I'm using "cis women with pcos" here more as a referral to how people themselves identify with it - considering how pcos is the most common hormonal syndrome in afab people, it makes perfect sense that the severity and variety of symptoms change between people. Some find out after failing to get pregnant. Some of us have severe symptoms since childhood. It's not something many people talk about with this topic, and it definitely can feel a bit unfair for people to say "you can't be intersex unless you have the chromosomes" even when the lived experience aligns way, way more with intersex people than that of cis women. Besides, we don't know our chromosomes for sure unless we get them tested, so technically there could be people who consider themselves cis and relate to the cis experience, but are unknowingly intersex by the official medical definition. (I'm not a biologist or doctor so I could be wrong, this is how I've understood it from reading a lot of dicussions around this topic.) Thank you for the video - I'd love to see more conversations about this topic with intersex people and people with pcos (with varying levels of symptoms) to shed more light and understanding on the topic and the different perspectives around it. (I mean this in a "just in general" way - there is a science podcast I love, but their episode on PCOS was a bit disappointing with the agreeing on the strict medical definition of intersex and not considering the lived experience of those of us with more severe symptoms of PCOS. Listening to it just made me wish to have the same episode topic but having more diversity in the conversation.) Went on a small ramble at the end there, but truly, thank you for the video.
Incoming wall of text about my personal experience, haha. I appreciate your take... I am a man with PCOS, my symptoms were subtle enough that I was never discriminated against and passed as female until I had surgery and took hormones to look male. Though... something always felt off, beyond the painful periods and excessive acne and body hair, and even beyond just the dysphoria. My body never *felt* female. Sex stuff just didn't feel correct, there was a mental disconnect. I understand that could be dysphoria but I've genuinely never met another trans person with the same type or severity of dysphoria that I have. Then the social incongruence with female stereotypes could be attributed to my autism as well as the theory that trans men have a 'male brain'. I guess I'm not sure if the term is something I should claim or not, but I appreciate your openness to the possibility of people with PCOS using this term, because hormonally, it does make sense... And in my case, it would explain a lot. I have never really fit in with the transmasc community and I don't feel nonbinary either, I feel like I just am a man with a hormonal imbalance. Again, though, all of that could be more social than biological and I acknowledge that. I wouldn't want to take a term that is more meaningful and specific to others and doesn't apply to me. I can just go on saying I'm a man and refusing to elaborate. :P
Thank you for making this video! I struggled with my gender identity for a long time before I was diagnosed with PCOS. I never realized I might be able to use this term, but it feels so good to know that I can explore whether or not I want to and see how it feels to me! I'm really happy about that. :-)
Thank you so much for this, Hans. As a person with PCOS who identifies as intersex, your videos have been incredibly beneficial in my journey to better understand myself. Thank you for the validation and for being such a great resource.
Thanks for this video! I saw a post somewhere that mentioned pcos and intersex, and I realised I'd never looked at it that way despite already having accepted that gender and sex and gender roles are all far more fluid and hard to define than I thought. I've never had to ask the question 'am I intersex?' but in a way I already came to the answer to that question through different terms. I am fine with being adressed as a woman, but it is so small an aspect of my personality that I prefer being seen as a person far more than being seen as a woman.
Thank you so much for making this. I have been trying to find answers to this question for years. I couldn't find any biological reasons why PCOS wouldn't be considered an intersex variation, but I always worried that I would be taking something from the intersex community by using this term to describe myself.
Just found your channel. I too was born with a intersex body type. Even though I have had many health issues because of this I also find the study of the various types of intersex body type so interesting. Growing up I really believed I was the only person in the world who had what I had and kept it from everyone. Today I’m extremely open about this.
@@blacktigerpaw1 My intersex is related to germ cell development issues. As a result one testis remained as a fetal ovotestis and the other testis failed to mature to adult size. It has required many surgeries and stage three cancer. In addition I believe this to be the root cause of my gender dysphoria, go figure. 😂 In addition I had a number of germ cell teratoma, with the largest being 17.5cm long. It took on the appearance of a fetus. It had arms,legs, skin,eyes,hair and body structure
@@blacktigerpaw1 ? ? You lost me. I didn’t say this made me male. I said my body did not develop fully as a male and that is why I have a degree of gender ambiguity. This had both a physical and phycological effect on who I am. Are you intersex or are you trying to project some preconceived idea of what you think gender should be. I really don’t expect people to comprehend fully and frankly don’t care what others believe or not believe. My DNA is that of a male but gender is much more than DNA alone.
I define myself somewhere in the gender spectrum idk where but im a « cis » woman with PCOS and i DEFINITELY consider the electrolysis i do for my facial hair as gender affirming procedure because facial hair just doesnt coincide with my perception of gender.
Omg thank you so much for this! Nobody's talking about it, but I've always felt this way. Tho I still consider myself a straight wombman; I'd also consider myself intersex.
I see some people misunderstood the point of this. Hans is not forcing y'all the intersex label. Self determination is more important. You can identify as intersex if you have PCOS if want to. It's the same as some people who are wrong assigned at birth but don't identify as trans.
This! PCOS has a broad range of symptoms that people can experience very differently. Not every person with PCOS overproduces testosterone, develops facial hair, has an apple shaped body, experiences "male-pattern" hair thinning or loss, etc. I know cis women diagnosed with PCOS just because they had irregular periods and experienced infertility, no other symptoms. So I don't think everyone with PCOS necessarily has an intersex experience, if that makes sense.
Thank you! I’m a trans masc with PCOS and been questioning about identifying with the intersex community, not sure if I’d be welcomed. I really appreciate this
Hello. A few years ago I got my hormones checked. To low testosterone, also low estrogen. I have to shave every day, and my body is not feminine. I have men boobs. I'm also an ecktomorph body type. When I was little I was born with both genitals. They cut my penis off. I got my menstrual cycle at the age of 9. Was raped by my brother from age 10 until 14. I couldn't come out pregnant. I can't get pregnant. This would be my last experience with any male. I was told that I am intersex. I'm ok with that.😊
I would like to ask a question if I my .20 year ago I started treatment for a hormone deficiency in my brain the pituitary gland that don't work .at the time they treaded me as a male so they put me on male hormone. The more I was on them the more mind my mind Changed and that is when I understood I was not male in mind but a female there for I was a transgender women . But the more my mind got clearer and I remember as a child feeling different more like my sister even though I was brought up as a male . In the beginning of this year I decided to stop the male hormone I hate the way it was keeping me male .and start to self mediation I was not to go to the gender client to next year . I was a bad thing I know but it help and here is the thing because my body has no hormone male or female as soon as I put the female hormone in me I started to change . No mouths but in weeks I started budding at first it was painful a transgender frenlds noticed I was changing. I ask them how lone it had taken them they said a year . They seemed surprised how fast I was growing .I had grown more in one mouth the she had in one year
This made me question more about my body .I ask my sister was there something different when I was born she gave a look and change the subject my parents r gone and I think people in the family r not telling someone thing .one of my sisters joke once about how I am not what I think iam . I hope you can help is it possible I am intersex and there not telling me I hope you can help lots of love alexis
For me I haven’t really had any outward symptoms except really fuzzy facial hair on the sides of my face, like, its not a normal amount to have there but you can’t see it because I’m blonde. Also, it’s thicker on the left side, like, there’s more of it
Thank you for making your position clear. It means I would undoubtedly fit in the intersex category. My worry is, will I find this attitude if I make connection with "the community", or may I be contentious" or rejected?
I really appreciate this video. Though, it doesn't really answer anything for me, it does make me feel like this feeling I've always had isn't without some fruit. Most people with PCOS that I hear about their experiences had more prominent hyperandrogynism. I was always more hairy, but never facial hair besides a stray here and there and somewhat thicker upper lip hairs than other "women" around me. I feel like matters for me are complicated though, as I'd been forced by my mother to take birth control to "treat my irregular periods" since I had started them. It's just now occurring to me that this treatment is... odd, and also probably greatly affected how my hormones treated me during puberty. Matters aren't helped much by having C-PTSD and DID, so I have dissociative amnesia and don't remember much of my childhood in general. But, I've always had this feeling that I may be intersex. I don't have a solid answer of yes or no for myself, but I don't feel wrong to question. And I'm glad there are people who allow us to have the space to learn and figure out what's going on with our own bodies. I've been frequently mistaken as either male or female ever since I was very little, though. I feel like my hormones have consistently been up and down and all over the place all my life. A few years ago I developed a rare "borderline cancer" on one of my ovaries and had to have it removed. The notes I received after the surgery were the first time I had confirmation that I even had cysts lining my ovarian walls. Though, now I only have one ovary left. I have reason to believe maybe my genitals aren't normal either, but that's connected to some very confusing and uncertain traumatic memories. I'm just saying- I have no way to connect the dots for myself right now. I'm not seeking validation by saying any of this. I just want to have my experience out there. I do fear that maybe my experiences aren't "enough," but I still know so little about my own experiences. If you feel like you're missing something, I think it's okay to keep questioning. It's okay to seek answers.
MRKH as an intersex condition? I am curious as to how many women with MRKH consider themselves as intersex. Would you care to hazard a guest based on your encounters with other intersex people?
Hey Marlo! I can't say for sure, but it's a Venn diagram that overlaps certainly. (MRKH x people who use intersex label) I know plenty of folks with MRKH who do. Highly recommend this piece a friend wrote on exactly that, "is MRKH intersex?" : interactadvocates.org/is-mrkh-intersex/
@@hihellohans Thanks for the link. It was exactly what I was looking for. Hope all is going well for you and that you are keeping safe from the beer virus.
I have pcos. I have no fallopian tubes. The doctors thought it was because my mom took thalidomide the entire nine months of her pregnancy with me. I didn’t have my first period till I was about 16 and had sporadic periods for about 20 years. I was never able to get pregnant with all the treatments I could afford. Fertility drugs/artificial insemination, etc., I never could afford in vitro. I understood I had too many male hormones/androgens. But I never even thought about being intersex. Maybe I am?
I’m definitely considering embracing the natural androgyny that comes with the condition. I’m doing this because the facial hair is now maturing and growing back very quickly. My sideburns (lol) are still vellus….. or maybe they’re just blonde, because they get so long sometimes that Martin van Buren would be proud.
I recently found out that I have one ovary which is PCOS, and my other gonad is a teste (confirmed through ultrasound). I also have ambiguous genitalia, and PCOS got found out through a hormone blood test where my testosterone is slightly higher (it should be a bit more for me though) and dangerously high prolactin (bad for my body because it suppresses estrogen and testosterone production and messes up my mood). I might be one step closer to being an intersex avatar once I do a metodioplasty (by my own will of course).
Hello again, I've posted another insightful but link heavy comment that is most certainly to be found in your spam folder. Please understand that I'm NOT getting paid by the creators of the videos I post in my comments & add to my playlists. Nevertheless, I do hope you'll find the information shared in these videos enlightening & life changing. Have a nice day!
I have PCOS and I am genderfluid, sometimes I wonder if the high testosterone had something to do with my gender identity, but hey, I am happy and I have an amazing family and kind partner so who cares
I suspect to be intersex. I have always been underweight. I am a 25 years old AMAB and I don't have a lot of thick hair. I can't grow a thick beard. My voice didn't get very deep and it seems that my puberty is incomplete. My mom told me that a doctor once suggested putting me on steroids when I was eleven years old but she didn't do it.
I have PCOS and have been researching the disorder for over a decade. PCOS is an inflammatory disease which effects various endocrine functions, primarily insulin sensitivity. The effects on the ovaries, weight and body hair are end results of a cascade effect throughout the endocrine system. Additionally, PCOS actually isn’t exclusive to only female anatomy, which is why many endocrinologists are trying to change the name from Polycystic Ovarian Syndrome to “Metabolic Reproductive Disorder”. The same underlying issues that effect the ovaries of female bodies effect male and intersex bodies as well, with different outward manifestations due to different physiology. PCOS is most closely related to diabetes type I and II and other autoimmune disorders and occurs most frequently in related individuals. Those heavily experienced with the science of PCOS aren’t publicly labeling it anything but what it is, a metabolic disorder caused by system wide inflammation. There is evidence that this system-wide low grade inflammation that causes PCOS is likely triggered by intestinal dysbiosis, which itself can be caused by many factors and healed by addressing the cause. There is enough misinformation and dismissiveness about what PCOS is and the health implications (such as increased risk for cardiovascular disease, Hashimoto’s thyroiditis and type 2 diabetes) without labeling the disorder an intersex condition. We need to do better for people suffering from PCOS than trying to make the disorder fit into an individual’s personal identity. PCOS is not an identity, it is a health disorder that can be managed and even reversed with lifestyle changes and/or medication. People should be able to identify however they want, but lumping a complicated metabolic disorder such as PCOS into an identity category distracts from the health implications of the actual disorder and does a disservice to people who benefit from its medical diagnosis and treatment as such.
I was diagnosed with pcos based follicles on my right ovary and more than average facial hair that I thought was ethnic and have had since before puberty. But I have normal periods and I stay thin easily. When I do gain weight it goes to my hips and I have small shoulders. I'm really worried that I won't ever get pregnant.
We are a system diagnosed with PCOS. We never grew a beard or had "too much hair" in an area. We did struggle with puberty though. having PCOS was difficult especially through puberty, it was extremely uncomfortable and our hormones even now as a 17 year old there is still negative stigma about the way our PCOS symptoms present themselves. We have a pretty "normal" looking vagina but we're still questioning if we count as intersex. (Just so you know, we didnt develop too much because we were born when out birth giver was 6 months pregnant. Idk if facial hair would have been a problem if we werent a premie)
Maybe this is because of us being a system and having different gender identities but our body looks androgynous to most of us excluding our stereotypical AFAB traits.
I do not have PCOS, I have another condition (tumor producing prolactin) that blocks feminine hormones and raises male hormones. Since those fluctuations made me feel like both woman and a man, I'd say, neither I, nor PCOS patients are intersex, since there are too many sexual hormone disorders in the population that are perfectly curable. You can't "cure" true intersex. What's your opinion?
Well of course it is. Instead of ovaries popping out eggs for fertility, they become all grape shaped and pump out testosterone often to high enough levels that secondary male sex characteristics start to grow. That means beard, body hair, change in fat distribution, loss of sub-Q fat, skin thickening, and phallic growth. This means an increase in the size of the glans and lengthening of the shaft, although the underside will still be open so don't expect to see the labia fuse to form a scrotum or the underside of the phallus to fuse to form a urine carrying tube. That sort of thing has to happen in a fetus and PCOS is way too late for that. However, her menstrual cycle will go off line or irregular. She'll loose fertility, might have miscarriages if she does get pregnant and of course with all the extra testosterone her body won't exactly be a friendly place for a fetus so... If you absolutely MUST be a mother... there are 200,000 children available for adoption in the USA ever day so... intersex may mean some unusual life experiences but it is never boring.
Hi, infertility isn't an inevitably for people with high testosterone as in PCOS, this misinformation has spread havoc among trans men and non binary people on testosterone because people are told they won't have periods, won't have to use birth control or abortions etc. So just as with trans men and enbies, people with pcos don't have a body inherently antagonistic to a foetus and it varies from person to person how their fertility is affected.
Answer: no. It is not. They are unambiguously women and PCOS is not officially declared an intersex condition. It's solely for women as only women have ovaries. DSDs operate under a different classification system. Women with facial hair aren't men.
Yikes. No, usually only people assigned female at birth have ovaries, not just women. That includes cis women, trans men, and some nonbinary people. And please don't use the term DSD. Plenty of intersex people prefer VSC (variation(s) of sex characteristics). Also, sex and gender are different. Intersex has to do with sex, while men and women have to do with gender.
@@madijennings7396 Yikes, no one is assigned a sex, it's observed. Yikes, trans men are female who like to use their female reproductive organs to get pregnant. Yikes, intersex people aren't separate sexes and you troons really can't learn that. Yikes, biological females are the only ones who get pregnant, not gender identities. Yikes, no human is non binary, it's entirely a human construct. Only AFAB enbies get mastectomies while AMAB enbies wear makeup. Yikes, almost as if there's a trend there.
As a STEM major with a BS in Public Health, I vehemently disagree with this video and find it extremely dangerous that this is being shown in certain college classes, and has likely been seen by youth. You can’t just invent a third sex for people “in the fuzzy zone” and call it intersex based on a hormonal imbalance. Does a male with erectile dysfunction become intersex too by that logic? Unless one’s chromosome are XXY, XO, etc. they are not intersex. Gender is another story as it’s a social construct by definition, but sex is biologically based on chromosomes. You also completely discredited the scientific community and equated scientific facts to eugenics and white supremacy. This fake science is absolutely ludicrous. Please learn to separate sociology from biology.
As a woman with PCOS, I find this video full of half-truths and misinformations and therefore incredibly problematic. Maybe YOU should talk to some actual PCOS sufferers before making a video like this. Let´s first look at the fact. PCOS, as the name says, means polycystic ovary SYNDROME. A syndrome means a collection of symptomes, which explains why PCOS sufferers have a wide variety of symptoms and facial hair is only affecting some, but by far not all women (I never had an issue with it, and many women I know). Also, as the name says, PCOS has to do with cysts in otherwise fuctioning ovaries, which is what women have. What happens is that eggs do not develop properly, but are stuck to the ovaries as cysts, causing the ovary to produce more testosterone that a woman usually would, which in turn makes thr problem worse (there is also a connection with insuline resistance). So why is that not an intersex condition? First of all, higher testosterone levels do not make you a man or intersex, they make you a woman with higher levels of testosterone. Second, there are many things you can do to get your cycles and hormones back into balance, from lifestyle to medication, and even concieve children if that is what you want. My hormones are no longer elevated, I have no more cysts and a regular cycle. Was I therefore part-time intersex, in your definition?
you shouldn't assume you know everything about PCOS just because you have it. hans clearly did enough research to be able to make this video. i have PCOS as well, and i don't have cysts. my ovaries just make too much androgens. the diagnostic criteria for PCOS is 2 out of 3 of the following: hyperandrogenism, ovulatory dysfunction, and polycystic ovaries. i have hyperandrogenism and ovulatory dysfunction (basically no periods), but not polycystic ovaries. there are also probably people who have PCOS without hyperandrogenism, as you seem to describe, and it would make total sense for those people to not identify as intersex considering how the experience of being intersex has a lot to do with societal experiences of being treated differently for your secondary sex characteristics and comparatively less to do with the actual anatomical differences. so yes, people with PCOS who identify as women are women with higher levels of testosterone. saying that people with PCOS can be considered intersex is not saying that everyone with PCOS is now intersex and has to identify with that word. to answer your last question, you were not "part-time intersex", and if you haven't had facial hair, android fat distribution, etc. then yeah, i understand why you've never considered yourself to be intersex.
@@rainbowbugjar I was diagnosed with PCOS two decades ago, and spent 20 years researching the topic, which is why I come to the conclusion that Hans did not do enough research. Also, being intersex is not something "social" or "something you consider yourself to be / identfy" as, but a cleary diagnosable medical condition / diference. What you say is that some people with the same medical condition can be intersex while others are not, which contradicts itself. Also, things like fat distribution and facial hair in PCOS can be reversed in a part of the cases with medication / lifestyle changes (also associating more facial hair with "intersex" is actualy a bit racist since darker skinned women tend to have more facial / body hair, and that does not make them any less of a woman!) PCOS also has more that 3 diagnostic criteria, insuline resistance can also be very important for the diagnosis. You may ask yourself why I even bother to write these posts. In the last year or so, I have seen more and more posts claiming PCOS to be an intersex condition. Interestingly enough, these claims were never made by doctors or scientists, but always by activits - what they try to do is to shoehorn medical conditions like PCOS into the intersex category to make it appear much larger than it actually is (0,02%), to create some artificial "gotcha" against gender binary. I find that extremely problematic, as it can lead women to become misinformed and not seek the best treatment they can get, and it can be extremely traumatising for women with PCOS to be called "manly" and so on. Please leave activism out of women´s health.
@@Rhejcka i said being intersex has a lot to do with social experience and identity, not that it is entirely that. "intersex" is not a diagnosable medical condition, but rather an umbrella term for many different experiences that involve many different diagnosable medical conditions. since some people with PCOS do not have hyperandrogenism, that does mean that those people do not fall under the intersex umbrella. but PCOS phenotype-a as it's sometimes called, the kind 99% of us have that includes hyperandrogenism, falls under the intersex umbrella because hyperandrogenism is an intersex trait. and doctors also medicate and treat CAH, since in some cases there are aspects of CAH that can be life threatening, but are you trying to say that people with CAH who are on hormone replacement therapy aren't intersex once their secondary sex characteristics are being "treated"? facial hair will result in societal pressure to conform to beauty standards, that's simply a fact of society. i don't personally think that body hair should be gendered, but both intersex people and women of color will experience discrimination because body hair is gendered in our society. many marginalized groups have overlapping experiences. you seem to think that if someone is intersex that means they can't be a cisgender woman, which is false. if you're assigned female at birth and identify as a woman, you're a cisgender woman. and then when you go through puberty and have PCOS, you might get assigned female again because doctors will put you on female hormones. so now you're double gender-affirmed, actually ! insulin resistance is a common symptom of PCOS but it is not one of the three diagnostic criteria. simply googling PCOS diagnostic criteria will give you plenty of doctor-approved results. it's actually very harmful to treat the existence of intersex people as a gotcha against the gender binary since being intersex and being transgender should not be conflated. parents assuming that their child being intersex means they'll be trans has lead to a lot of detransitioned intersex people with grudges against the LGBT community. i don't see how acknowledging that PCOS is intersex is specifically what makes people call women with PCOS manly. i was called manly as soon as i started puberty, regardless of whether i or anyone else knew i had PCOS. doctors don't want to consider PCOS intersex for the same reason some doctors don't consider CAH to be intersex. both PCOS and CAH involve hormonal differences which are more "treatable" than traits like having internal testes or ovotestes. this is problematic because categorizing PCOS and CAH as "fixable" allows doctors to continue performing clitorectomies/clitoroplasties on children. a lot of the rhetoric you're using kisses doctors asses as if they don't force surgeries and hormonal treatments onto people. here is a quote from one of the articles linked in the description: "A female friend born with internal testes once told me, “I guess I’m technically intersex, but I don’t care or call myself that. I’m just a cisgender woman who has testes.” This just goes to show that ideas about who falls into “intersex” vary widely. Perhaps the real question is not “who counts as intersex” but: how can we all be free from harmful expectations on our bodies, and what kind of community do we need to build to achieve that world?" but since you've ended your comment with "Please leave activism out of women´s health." i'm not sure you're willing to try and wrap your head around that.
@@rainbowbugjar "i said being intersex has a lot to do with social experience and identity". No it does not. Intersex conditions - or as they are more recently called since the term "intersex" is misleading - DSD or VSD (disorders / differences / variations of sexual development) is a set of - as the name says - differences or disorders of sexual development that develop in utrero (the reason the term intersex is used less and less is because those conditions are actually sex specific) PCOS is not a disorder of sexual development, and it does not develop in utero, therefore: not an intersex condition. If you have ovotestes, they stay a part of your body. If you have cysts in your ovaries and elevated testosterone levels, there are ways to improve your condition (and get both back to normal). Also, CAH and PCOS are not the same thing (though women with CAH might sometimes be misdiagnosed with PCOS). if you do not want body hair to be gendered, please do not call women with more body hair "intersex" as it implies that such women are not entirely female. Also, unless you fall into a tiny category of DSD people whose sex can not be determined at birth, your sex is not "assigned" at birth, it is merely observed (also the sex of those DSD babies can nowadays be determined by checking the chromosomes). You do not get "assigned " female when they dignose you with PCOS since that is only a condition biological women can get (which does not mean I agree with giving women with PCOS the pill by default - I assume that is what you mean by "female hormones" since there might be better treatment options. Also, there are zero links between doctors treating PCOS and cliterectomies, and the practice of operating on DSD babies´genitals is now widely criticised and even forbidden in many countries . If you want to create a world without expectations, you need to get rid of all of the little boxes, and accept people as complex individuals and accept yourself exactly as you are. Identity politics do the exact opposite: they create all of the little boxes that people can "identify" into, no matter is this identity is based on facts or not. In the long run, this is not helpful to anybody.
@@Rhejcka Neither Hans nor anyone else is forcing you or any other person with PCOS to identify as intersex. Symptoms are broad. You cannot speak for anyone's lived experience with PCOS other than your own. You already said you never dealt with facial hair or secondary male sex characteristics so maybe leave those of us who have and have suffered the social stigmas of that alone? No one is forcing a label onto you or anyone else. And it's not hurting YOU for others who have had a different experience with this disease to contextualize it within an intersex understanding. And before you say that it hurts other intersex people...I've found the community to be quite welcoming. Also, calling PCOS "women's health" totally erases the trans men and non-binary people who also suffer from this disease.
Hi im not invalidating anyone elses experiences here but i dont believe pcos is an intersex condition. I have severe hirtuism and small hips and belly fat but very large breasts. I have mood swings and all that could be obviously down to excess testosterone. However. All my body parts and gentetalia are female . My periods are regular but i do have severe pms that could also be excess testosterone but im not stronger than other females and apart from that "feel" and have also always felt very feminine and am attracted to masculine men . I actually find videos like this triggering. Ive nothing against people who are genuinely intersex but having a little excess male hormone does not make me male. I know lots of women with pcos who are very feminine and if your not i dont believe its down to pcos. Videos like this shouldn't be made unless your a medical professional and i knowb100% im a woman.
![Intersex explained (Part 1) [+CC Español, Türkçe]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/s11jHr_za_g/mqdefault.jpg)
I also wrote an article on this in 2023: hanslindahl.com/blog/is-pcos-an-intersex-condition
It’s videos like this that made me feel sane for feeling “ not like other girls”. I had PCOS symptoms for 27 years. I never was feminine like my friends, I was hairy chined, taller and built like a liner backer ( I am so much stronger due to all of the testosterone) i sweat like a pig. I felt like a failure of being a woman. Thank you for this vid, I now see that I am neither crazy or a failure. I can be free to be me.
"Sweat like a pig"
...I may have had a realisation
Based on this point of view, menopause would be intersex. Instead of thinking of male and female as being such boxes that there is no wiggle room, why not expand the box to recognize that part of being a woman is that we are constantly changing from puberty through menopause. Why can't a woman who is hairy chinned, taller and built like a linebacker, be just as much of a woman as a delicate ballerina? Because when it comes time for menopause, women become unable to become pregnant naturally, can become hairy- chinned, clumsy, sweat like a pig, and have problems with body odor. Our entire relationship with our female bodies change. Have we somehow become not women? Not female? No.
The concern I have with videos like this, is that somehow they do exactly what they propose to be fighting against, that is, reinforce a very limited idea of what it means to be a woman or a man. For instance, who says any woman always "feels like a woman"? What exactly does that mean? Since feelings can be influenced by so many things, from the amount of sleep, to music or TV, to food or medicine, or even the weather, or by the actions of others, why would we use feelings to determine whether or not we're a female? Anyway, since when did our definitions of male or female, man or woman ultimately come down to a decision based on our feelings?
For instance, the term "Mama Bear" exists for a reason - that somehow inside of a woman was a capacity for fierceness, strength, largeness, aggression - what could be seen as typically male characteristics. So if a woman was known to be able to become a mama bear, so to speak, then these features were already inside ready to come out if necessary. That means as women these were part of us in the first place. By extension, that means that there must be a rightful place in the definition of woman for individuals with PCOS.
In other words, what does it mean to feel like a woman? Well, how do you feel right now?
you are not stronger and smell like pig because of testosterone. Testosterone doesn't any effect on muscle as you thought. It just increases protein synthesis. Estrogen also increases protein synthesis. It's unbelievable that you people accept these things. Testosterone is linked to muscle mass because in society ''people who produce testosterone in their genitals have more muscle'' not because it's a biological fact.
Sorry you felt that way. You are perfect the way you are
@@rbdb8953 people aren't born menopausal.
Thank you for this video. 🖤 People often do not realize or reflect upon how isolating and harmful it can be to not see oneself reflected in media during an age where media surrounds us. Or even worse, to have oneself represented in harmful/negative ways through media. I definitely have experienced that throughout most of my life, as I'm sure many others have. It's so relieving and validating to see individuals putting out content like this. Just know that I appreciate you so much, and you made my day significantly better, thank you. 🖤
I feel like we have kind of the same thing in the disability community were deciding who is or not chronically ill or disabled based on diagnosis doesn't make total sens in many case. It's much more interesting to look at lived experienced, and sometimes people with different diagnoses have experience much more similar than some people with the same diagnosis !
Lived experience is not evidence. PCOS is not a DSD.
i can relate to lived experience being much more helpful to learn from than just a diagnosis with disability. ive been diagnosed as single sided deaf (SSD) my whole life, but never recieved accomodations and was raised oral and mainstream, so i just assumed i lived like a hearing person. cut to 2020 and i start talking with d/hh people on discord more and more and learn about what they go through, and see that i share so so many struggles with them, and i was able to accept my identity as a hard of hearing person
I've been wondering about this a lot. A lot of people insist PCOS isn't intersex because there are too many of us and it's puberty onset usually but I keep my hair short and dress in masculine clothing and I usually pass as a man even when people can see my breasts because my voice dropped to male* levels, I have a beard and thick body hair, I smell like a dude etc. I don't see how that could be anything else.
the argument about there being too many people with PCOS to fit in the intersex label is truly ridiculous. the more people there are in any minority group, the more they can claim some leverage over medical professionals and policy makers. and intersex people are a very small minority in every country. i'm sure other people's personal experiences with PCOS differ from yours, but as an advocacy tactic i think it's worth considering
I hope the attitude expressed in the video becomes widely accepted. Yes there are degrees" but there are other factors, such as the non acceptance or bullying within Society. Numbers shouldn't count.
Hey I just found this video, I wrote the article about PCOS and intersex by the black youth project. I get a lot of really strong opinions about it and if you have any thoughts or critiques about it I would love to hear them. I think about writing a follow up to it sometimes as well.
Hi Gillian! It's awesome to hear from you because I loved your article. I get some of the strongest/most polar opinions on this video as well... Completely agree that medical knowledge is socially and culturally influenced. That gets into the politics of who gets to decide who is "intersex enough," and often anger against intersex affiliation by those who have been led to believe that "intersex" is somehow incompatible or contrary to "woman." (I most often see cisgender, straight women with PCOS feeling this way.) That's also very informed by how things are medically framed, with intersex being positioned as "those crazy activists over there" with only the "most extreme" sex variations, or being inherently/always gender diverse. But IMO, intersex is simply a movement for acceptance and bodily autonomy, made up of people from all over the spectrum. And in my experience that absolutely can and does include PCOS folks who opt in. Would be eager to read anything else you write.
I just read your article! Amazing!!
I literally read that article ten minutes ago! Irs really well written!
Thanks for this. I would note it isn't just facial hair. As a teenager I had large breasts but a large stomach (male), horrible cystic acne (again male), thinning hair (male). I was told my testosterone was off the charts and put on estrogen at 20 but it wasn't until ten years later and a random test in Germany that I was diagnosed with PCOS. My husband translated to me in English that "my hormones were more male than female" so it would be very difficult for me to have children. Just thought I would share. It's interesting to think about.
You're not a man. You're female.
There are women out there with large bellies who do not have PCOS . Always have been. And women with acne who do not have PCOS. You are a woman with a hormonal imbalance, as am I and every other woman with PCOS
It does not mean that you have more male hormone than female. It means your ovaries are malfunctioning. The big belly is caused by having cysts on your ovaries. You don't even have to have PCOS to have cysts on your ovaries and it always causes a big belly and you can have high testosterone without any other thing indicative of being intersexed. PCOS is not a symptom of being intersexed nor is high testosterone in a woman. You shouldn't be looking for information about your condition on TH-cam. Talk to your doctor.
@@melissamilam2294 You are wrong. The large belly is not caused by cysts, the cysts never grow to that size. The stomach fat is caused by hyperinsulinemia which is a type of hormone imbalance. Get your facts straight before spreading misinformation.
@@melissamilam2294 1. clearly you did not watch the video and understand what defines intersex 2. you are wrong, PCOS is not defined by having cysts and 'malfunctioning ovaries', it is a endocrine and metabolic disorder and you can have PCOS without having any cysts, cysts are just a symptom of the condition
BESTIE THANK YOU!! FINALLY SOMEONE GETS IT! I seriously can’t believe all the gatekeeping going on in this discussion, plus the angry TERFs thinking their femininity is being taken away when it’s not.
I’ve had facial hair since the 2020s and have natural male hormones when I was born a female, using the intersex label makes me pretty comfortable and makes sense for me
It's not gatekeeping its science. You're only intersexed if your chromosomes say you are. You can be non-binary but you can't wish yourself intersexed.
Thank you for this video. I have PCOS marked by very light/nonexistent periods, acne, and some ovarian cysts shown via ultrasound. I haven't had a blood test done (yet) to show hormone and glucose levels, but lately I've been reflecting on my life and childhood a lot. Before I learned that some consider PCOS to be under the intersex umbrella, I had been wondering if I'm agender; I've never felt fully comfortable in (traditionally) feminine activities and terms, but I also haven't felt a resonance with the masculine as well. I learned only last night via a TikTok comment that some cysters consider themselves as intersex, and now I'm devouring as much as I can on the topic. I appreciate your clarity and insights.
Thank you! I resonate with this a lot.
If you had pics, you’d be. extremely fat and bearded along with heavy, prolonged, gushing periods. It’s a very over diagnosed condition
Omg THANK YOU so much for this! I have PCOS (without the actual cysts thankfully) with male pattern body & facial hair growth, and the feeling that I should have/psychologically do have both sets of genitalia. I've seen so many people saying that PCOS doesn't count as intersex and it's disrespectful (to both groups, somehow??) to claim otherwise, but honestly calling myself intersex sparks so much more gender euphoria than just non-binary or androgyne. At the end of the day, even if it's on a milder level than some cases, my body has developed with a blend of opposite sex-typical traits and in my case that feels directly connected to my male-female blended gender identity. 💖
Because people with PCOS are typically normal and don’t want to be seen as intersex LOL
@@miakeys4280 I'm glad for you! It's so stupid how much stigma gets thrown at hairy AFABs considering 1/10 of us get some level of facial hair naturally. But people just ignore that fact and act like it's something super weird and rare. 🙄 Shaving body hair literally didn't even become a thing until the 1940s, and razor companies managed to convince everyone that female body hair was gross so they could make money off it. There are now even some men oblivious enough to think that the XY are the only ones who biologically grow it in the first place. At all. They think we're supposed to look like Barbie dolls. It's absurd.
I think we should be proud of our bodies the way they are, no need to let ignorant people get snippy with us about it. My hairiness just makes me feel like a badass wolf of a person who happens to be female. 😁 I'm lucky I was raised to always have confidence in myself in all my glorious uniqueness, and not let people pick on me for BS reasons. And it'll help ward off romantic attention from the kind of shallow ignorant plonkers who I wouldn't want to go out with anyway. I've been attracted to many different kinds of people appearance-wise, so I know that society's obsession over beauty standards is just some crap they've pulled out of their arse and spread around, acting like everyone needs to agree with the arbitrary 'norm' about what traits can/can't be attractive.
And idk if having a big clit has any advantages aside from making it easier to find, but I'm proud of that too. Because why not?
Same😭
Why can't we just understand humans are variants. Like all things on earth
I have a severe PCOS. Diagnosed at 20, so quite early in my life. I identify as a feminine Lesbian, but my experience is that, sometimes, I feel the need to dress more comfortably, in pants and shirts, as opposed to dresses and skirts. Also, I've done a great deal of core strength training, and discover a masculine energy in that. PCOS has resulted in excessive facial hair growth for me, which is painful to remove. I also experience hormone surges after a menstrual period, which I would consider to be a male energy surge. Thank you for reading this, and to sharing a clear definition of intersex with us all. Not sure I can define my experience as one of Intersex, but i have certainly experienced my sexual identity as being something fluid.
PCOS isn't an intersex condition. You do not have a DSD. Your karyotypes are fine.
@@blacktigerpaw1 yes, I think that's a pretty accurate way to describe the science of Intersex as versus a condition like PCOS,which medicine describes as an umbrella term for a set of disordered hormone levels. It is not, technically, a way of life. People are born with gene sequences which are neither traditional sign of male or female. No disrespect to those who identify as Intersex
@@rodneymaher7024 People don't 'identify' as intersex. DSDs are chromosomal abnormalities. You don't choose them.
They are not third sexes, either.
@@blacktigerpaw1 thanks, I apologise for any ignorance on my part. There's a documentary on BBC which follows three people, and describes that Intersex is a chromosome abnormality. It explains this fact pretty clearly. And, yes, that term,THIRD SEX is horrible, isn't it?
@@rodneymaher7024 They are DSDs, and chromosomal combinations are just variants of XX and XY.
But it seems we're on the same page here.
Thank you so much for this! I'm in my 40's and I have PCOS with low estrogen and unnaturally high testosterone. I have battled the ovarian cysts and a hairy body since my teens. I didn't find out though that I had PCOS until I found out that I had endometrial cancer when i was 32. I ended up having a total hysterectomy. Nowadays, I have hair on my neck, a moustache with a beard and a deep voice that I can't control. I did have a daughter in my early 20's and now she's in her adult years showing the same symptoms I did and still do.
I was assigned female at birth but since I was roughly 12 or so I grew "oddly". I'm big, have light chest hair and at 23 I ended up growing facial hair. My doctor says its PCOS. I don't know if I want the label Intersex but it'd probably fit me.
It's not a labor, it's God sign 🖖
I have PCOS and I'm nonbinary and transitioning to have a more androgynous body. I use they/them pronouns and always felt affirmed by the deeper voice, thicker and faster hair growth, the infertility, the high testosterone, etc. I never really felt like a girl and puberty definitely sparked the beginning of my gender dysphoria to a more intense level. The odd relief I felt when I was diagnosed with PCOS was insane, so I could argue that physically in some sense, I was truly on the spectrum between male and female. Thanks for this video!
Thank you for this video. As a trans guy who had PCOS then an oophorectomy.... I think it definitely made things different for me. Bodies are weird. I got them to give me the before and after laparoscopic images.
I had a laproscopy and they showed me pics inside me, I almost fainted. 🤣 Unrelated to the video topic, it just made me lightheaded to see my guts. Isn't it wild?
If you don't mind me asking. What differences in experience are there between higher testosterone levels with PCOS that occured on their own and HRT testosterone (if you have chosen that). Do you feel the same or is HRT way more intense?
Was always “flat” and kinda underdeveloped until I started birth control at 17. I was never formally diagnosed with PCOS but was presumed to have it because it runs in my family. I’ve been taking birth control since then and found out today it could be considered under the intersex umbrella. It makes me wonder if I would have developed the same without birth control. I still had a gender identity crisis this past year despite being on estrogen, and I do find it interesting that people with PCOS are more likely to be queer. I have recently become more comfortable with my androgyny but still somewhat identify with being a woman, but learning this has been somewhat validating for my experiences I’ve had feeling like I don’t fit into a box. I’m a public health major so I tend to think more in medical terms, but I appreciate you talking about the social implications of being intersex and that it isn’t so black and white. Terrified to get off of the pill because of how horrendous my periods used to be, but also curious. For now I am lucky to not feel much bodily dysphoria despite the changes it’s gone through due to birth control. My gender non-conformity has more to do with the way I am perceived in social spaces and the way I think of myself. Needless to say gender and sex identity in relation to PCOS is a conversation that needs to be had more because I feel many afab people could relate to a queer or intersex experience
Hi I am 16 and before I went on birth control I was flat chested to 😭 I have been rlly struggling with my body image due to pcos along with my sexuality I noticed u mentioned about being queer and the effect of pcos and I just wanted to say I find that interesting and has made me think about things :)
@@Lily.567 body image can be tough to navigate for sure, but I think with time the more you appreciate your body for what it does for you, it’ll get better! And as for sexuality, I’m sure you’ll figure that out with time, too! :)
@@dizzygirlsweats thank you for replying :) I just wanted to ask if u had noticed a change in voice as I have heard that pcos can deepen your voice and ngl I am scared that will happen 😭also did u suffer from hair loss ,sorry if it is a bit to personal
Love your approach to this, Hans. Especially picking up on links with supremacy. Subscribed!
thank you for the very concise help ! i have had PCOS symptoms since puberty at around age 13, self-diagnosed with it since maybe 15 or 16, and only recently at age 23 have been professionally diagnosed with it. i still have lots of doctors visits to go through, and i'm really not sure about what kind of hormone replacement therapy i want yet, so while i'm kind of nervous and uncertain about it i'm also thankful i'm able to make the decision myself. with the way my PCOS presents i would definitely consider myself intersex, but i can totally understand other people with PCOS not identifying that way considering the criteria for PCOS diagnosis and range of different symptoms and experiences people can have
Love how you did this video (and that intersex umbrella photo was epic!)
Thank you for this video! I was very recently diagnosed with PCOS (like a few weeks ago), and I also have been diagnosed with Hashimoto’s for a while. It’s scary and kind of disheartening, because I’m only 16.
Both of these disorders messed with my hormones, and I’ve been having symptoms since about the start of my puberty.
According to my bloodwork I have extremely high testosterone levels, to the point that I have to be on birth control for pretty much the rest of my life so I don’t suffer things like heart attacks. It’s kind of like athletes who take high levels of steroids lol
I have almost nonexistent periods, hair growth, a deep voice, etc. Over the past couple years I’ve been very confused about my gender identity. This video has given me a bit more reassurance in myself! Thank you again
Hi I’m 16 and I hate having pcos ,it is so hard 😭I just wanted to ask if birth control helped your pcos and when u say your voice got deep do u mean u still sounded like a girl it was just deep or did u sound like a man .Sorry If that is to personal u don’t have to answer.We are in this together !
Your videos are always charming and insightful, thank you Hans! Also fascinating range of experiences in the comments here!
I have severe PCOS - I was officially diagnosed in my mid-teens, but I had been going to the doctors since I was 10 because of it. I experienced (and still do, to a degree) severe headaches and migraines often due to it - I was a given medication at 10-11 to lessen the testosterone production in my body so my headaches and migraines would lessen, which I'm still using everyday. (This is a symptom/side effect of PCOS I've been told about for years, and a reputable source in my language also mentions it in their description of PCOS - strangely enough though, I barely ever see it mentioned when people discuss the topic in English, and I don't personally know other people with PCOS to ask if it aligns with their experience too.) Part of it was also the amount of hair I had started to get all over my body and face - puberty started early for me, before the age of 10. I never had periods until I was 16, when I was given my PCOS diagnosis as well as hormonal treatment (in the form of birth control pills). Even with the hormones, I've never had consistent periods - at one point, I had period symptoms ongoing for a whole month with varying levels of cramps and bleeding. After trying various other pills, I finally have one where my blood pressure isn't high af - with them, I barely experience any periods. I wouldn't experience any if I wasn't using them - one time I was off of them for over a month, and I definitely felt the testosterone in my body increasing by the end of it (similar experience to my transmasc friends first starting hormone treatments).
My body hair growth is high, as well as my facial hair. I've always been shamed for those things from a young age, having people around me encouraging waxing them before I even reached my teens. I always felt alienated from my friends for not having periods and not being able to understand what they were talking about, among other physical things that were normal for them yet seemed strange to me. I also often feel sort of alienated from PCOS talk, as many times it is from the pov of cishet women with PCOS, who may not have as severe symptoms as me and may even call it "women who suffer from PCOS" - which I find upsetting to hear, as even if I understand why people may say that and I understand the often negative perceptions of it, for me it's simply the way my body has always been. (I'm fine if you're speaking about your own body and experiences, those are valid feelings! My issue is when this is sometimes the only way the PCOS experience is spoken about, especially by those who don't have it themselves and may often work with people with PCOS.)
The first time I truly felt validated about my body and experiences was when I stumbled across the intersex community on TikTok. For once it felt like there were people who really understood my experiences, and it made me feel so much better about the parts of my body I've been shamed about my whole life. Seeing people be proud of their facial hair made me feel excited about mine. I've grown to appreciate the way I am since, and enjoy the masculine parts of my body I wasn't given the space to enjoy when I was young. So yes, I definitely feel myself align more with intersex people/intersex women rather than with cis women - even cis women with pcos. (I'm using "cis women with pcos" here more as a referral to how people themselves identify with it - considering how pcos is the most common hormonal syndrome in afab people, it makes perfect sense that the severity and variety of symptoms change between people. Some find out after failing to get pregnant. Some of us have severe symptoms since childhood. It's not something many people talk about with this topic, and it definitely can feel a bit unfair for people to say "you can't be intersex unless you have the chromosomes" even when the lived experience aligns way, way more with intersex people than that of cis women. Besides, we don't know our chromosomes for sure unless we get them tested, so technically there could be people who consider themselves cis and relate to the cis experience, but are unknowingly intersex by the official medical definition. (I'm not a biologist or doctor so I could be wrong, this is how I've understood it from reading a lot of dicussions around this topic.)
Thank you for the video - I'd love to see more conversations about this topic with intersex people and people with pcos (with varying levels of symptoms) to shed more light and understanding on the topic and the different perspectives around it. (I mean this in a "just in general" way - there is a science podcast I love, but their episode on PCOS was a bit disappointing with the agreeing on the strict medical definition of intersex and not considering the lived experience of those of us with more severe symptoms of PCOS. Listening to it just made me wish to have the same episode topic but having more diversity in the conversation.)
Went on a small ramble at the end there, but truly, thank you for the video.
Incoming wall of text about my personal experience, haha.
I appreciate your take... I am a man with PCOS, my symptoms were subtle enough that I was never discriminated against and passed as female until I had surgery and took hormones to look male. Though... something always felt off, beyond the painful periods and excessive acne and body hair, and even beyond just the dysphoria. My body never *felt* female. Sex stuff just didn't feel correct, there was a mental disconnect. I understand that could be dysphoria but I've genuinely never met another trans person with the same type or severity of dysphoria that I have. Then the social incongruence with female stereotypes could be attributed to my autism as well as the theory that trans men have a 'male brain'. I guess I'm not sure if the term is something I should claim or not, but I appreciate your openness to the possibility of people with PCOS using this term, because hormonally, it does make sense... And in my case, it would explain a lot. I have never really fit in with the transmasc community and I don't feel nonbinary either, I feel like I just am a man with a hormonal imbalance. Again, though, all of that could be more social than biological and I acknowledge that. I wouldn't want to take a term that is more meaningful and specific to others and doesn't apply to me. I can just go on saying I'm a man and refusing to elaborate. :P
Problems? Need God doht cohm
Thank you for making this video! I struggled with my gender identity for a long time before I was diagnosed with PCOS. I never realized I might be able to use this term, but it feels so good to know that I can explore whether or not I want to and see how it feels to me! I'm really happy about that. :-)
Thank you so much for this, Hans. As a person with PCOS who identifies as intersex, your videos have been incredibly beneficial in my journey to better understand myself. Thank you for the validation and for being such a great resource.
Thanks for this video! I saw a post somewhere that mentioned pcos and intersex, and I realised I'd never looked at it that way despite already having accepted that gender and sex and gender roles are all far more fluid and hard to define than I thought. I've never had to ask the question 'am I intersex?' but in a way I already came to the answer to that question through different terms. I am fine with being adressed as a woman, but it is so small an aspect of my personality that I prefer being seen as a person far more than being seen as a woman.
Thank you so much for making this. I have been trying to find answers to this question for years. I couldn't find any biological reasons why PCOS wouldn't be considered an intersex variation, but I always worried that I would be taking something from the intersex community by using this term to describe myself.
Just found your channel.
I too was born with a intersex body type. Even though I have had many health issues because of this I also find the study of the various types of intersex body type so interesting. Growing up I really believed I was the only person in the world who had what I had and kept it from everyone. Today I’m extremely open about this.
what's your condition?
@@blacktigerpaw1 My intersex is related to germ cell development issues. As a result one testis remained as a fetal ovotestis and the other testis failed to mature to adult size.
It has required many surgeries and stage three cancer.
In addition I believe this to be the root cause of my gender dysphoria, go figure. 😂
In addition I had a number of germ cell teratoma, with the largest being 17.5cm long. It took on the appearance of a fetus. It had arms,legs, skin,eyes,hair and body structure
@@hannahmich7342 That doesn't make you a man, though.
@@blacktigerpaw1 ? ? You lost me.
I didn’t say this made me male. I said my body did not develop fully as a male and that is why I have a degree of gender ambiguity. This had both a physical and phycological effect on who I am.
Are you intersex or are you trying to project some preconceived idea of what you think gender should be. I really don’t expect people to comprehend fully and frankly don’t care what others believe or not believe.
My DNA is that of a male but gender is much more than DNA alone.
@@hannahmich7342 OK so is it Klinefelter's Syndrome?
My mind is blown with this! :o I never considered it but it makes a lot of sense
I define myself somewhere in the gender spectrum idk where but im a « cis » woman with PCOS and i DEFINITELY consider the electrolysis i do for my facial hair as gender affirming procedure because facial hair just doesnt coincide with my perception of gender.
Omg thank you so much for this!
Nobody's talking about it, but I've always felt this way.
Tho I still consider myself a straight wombman; I'd also consider myself intersex.
I see some people misunderstood the point of this. Hans is not forcing y'all the intersex label. Self determination is more important. You can identify as intersex if you have PCOS if want to. It's the same as some people who are wrong assigned at birth but don't identify as trans.
This! PCOS has a broad range of symptoms that people can experience very differently. Not every person with PCOS overproduces testosterone, develops facial hair, has an apple shaped body, experiences "male-pattern" hair thinning or loss, etc. I know cis women diagnosed with PCOS just because they had irregular periods and experienced infertility, no other symptoms. So I don't think everyone with PCOS necessarily has an intersex experience, if that makes sense.
Exactly 💀 I think that PCOS May be slightly related to Intersex
Thank you! I’m a trans masc with PCOS and been questioning about identifying with the intersex community, not sure if I’d be welcomed. I really appreciate this
Hello. A few years ago I got my hormones checked. To low testosterone, also low estrogen. I have to shave every day, and my body is not feminine. I have men boobs. I'm also an ecktomorph body type. When I was little I was born with both genitals. They cut my penis off. I got my menstrual cycle at the age of 9. Was raped by my brother from age 10 until 14. I couldn't come out pregnant. I can't get pregnant. This would be my last experience with any male. I was told that I am intersex. I'm ok with that.😊
I would like to ask a question if I my .20 year ago I started treatment for a hormone deficiency in my brain the pituitary gland that don't work .at the time they treaded me as a male so they put me on male hormone. The more I was on them the more mind my mind Changed and that is when I understood I was not male in mind but a female there for I was a transgender women . But the more my mind got clearer and I remember as a child feeling different more like my sister even though I was brought up as a male . In the beginning of this year I decided to stop the male hormone I hate the way it was keeping me male .and start to self mediation I was not to go to the gender client to next year . I was a bad thing I know but it help and here is the thing because my body has no hormone male or female as soon as I put the female hormone in me I started to change . No mouths but in weeks I started budding at first it was painful a transgender frenlds noticed I was changing. I ask them how lone it had taken them they said a year . They seemed surprised how fast I was growing .I had grown more in one mouth the she had in one year
This made me question more about my body .I ask my sister was there something different when I was born she gave a look and change the subject my parents r gone and I think people in the family r not telling someone thing .one of my sisters joke once about how I am not what I think iam . I hope you can help is it possible I am intersex and there not telling me I hope you can help lots of love alexis
I hope you have found the answer for whatever they're keeping away from you!
Thank you
For me I haven’t really had any outward symptoms except really fuzzy facial hair on the sides of my face, like, its not a normal amount to have there but you can’t see it because I’m blonde. Also, it’s thicker on the left side, like, there’s more of it
Thank you for making your position clear. It means I would undoubtedly fit in the intersex category. My worry is, will I find this attitude if I make connection with "the community", or may I be contentious" or rejected?
Amazing video. Thank you 💛💜
Gosh....explains so much if this can be grouped under intersex. So much...
I really appreciate this video. Though, it doesn't really answer anything for me, it does make me feel like this feeling I've always had isn't without some fruit.
Most people with PCOS that I hear about their experiences had more prominent hyperandrogynism. I was always more hairy, but never facial hair besides a stray here and there and somewhat thicker upper lip hairs than other "women" around me. I feel like matters for me are complicated though, as I'd been forced by my mother to take birth control to "treat my irregular periods" since I had started them. It's just now occurring to me that this treatment is... odd, and also probably greatly affected how my hormones treated me during puberty.
Matters aren't helped much by having C-PTSD and DID, so I have dissociative amnesia and don't remember much of my childhood in general. But, I've always had this feeling that I may be intersex. I don't have a solid answer of yes or no for myself, but I don't feel wrong to question. And I'm glad there are people who allow us to have the space to learn and figure out what's going on with our own bodies.
I've been frequently mistaken as either male or female ever since I was very little, though. I feel like my hormones have consistently been up and down and all over the place all my life. A few years ago I developed a rare "borderline cancer" on one of my ovaries and had to have it removed. The notes I received after the surgery were the first time I had confirmation that I even had cysts lining my ovarian walls. Though, now I only have one ovary left.
I have reason to believe maybe my genitals aren't normal either, but that's connected to some very confusing and uncertain traumatic memories. I'm just saying- I have no way to connect the dots for myself right now.
I'm not seeking validation by saying any of this. I just want to have my experience out there. I do fear that maybe my experiences aren't "enough," but I still know so little about my own experiences. If you feel like you're missing something, I think it's okay to keep questioning. It's okay to seek answers.
MRKH as an intersex condition?
I am curious as to how many women with MRKH consider themselves as intersex.
Would you care to hazard a guest based on your encounters with other intersex people?
Hey Marlo! I can't say for sure, but it's a Venn diagram that overlaps certainly. (MRKH x people who use intersex label) I know plenty of folks with MRKH who do.
Highly recommend this piece a friend wrote on exactly that, "is MRKH intersex?" : interactadvocates.org/is-mrkh-intersex/
@@hihellohans Thanks for the link. It was exactly what I was looking for.
Hope all is going well for you and that you are keeping safe from the beer virus.
@@endar777 you too!
I have pcos. I have no fallopian tubes. The doctors thought it was because my mom took thalidomide the entire nine months of her pregnancy with me. I didn’t have my first period till I was about 16 and had sporadic periods for about 20 years. I was never able to get pregnant with all the treatments I could afford. Fertility drugs/artificial insemination, etc., I never could afford in vitro. I understood I had too many male hormones/androgens. But I never even thought about being intersex. Maybe I am?
I’m definitely considering embracing the natural androgyny that comes with the condition. I’m doing this because the facial hair is now maturing and growing back very quickly. My sideburns (lol) are still vellus….. or maybe they’re just blonde, because they get so long sometimes that Martin van Buren would be proud.
Ahhhh!! So glad someone finally made this video and even more glad it was you! 💜💛
I recently found out that I have one ovary which is PCOS, and my other gonad is a teste (confirmed through ultrasound). I also have ambiguous genitalia, and PCOS got found out through a hormone blood test where my testosterone is slightly higher (it should be a bit more for me though) and dangerously high prolactin (bad for my body because it suppresses estrogen and testosterone production and messes up my mood). I might be one step closer to being an intersex avatar once I do a metodioplasty (by my own will of course).
@@soulfoodie1 yeah it's impossible to actually have them all I know (as in both testicles on the outside and inside) but I do have ovo-teste though.
hey thanks for this!
Hello again, I've posted another insightful but link heavy comment that is most certainly to be found in your spam folder. Please understand that I'm NOT getting paid by the creators of the videos I post in my comments & add to my playlists. Nevertheless, I do hope you'll find the information shared in these videos enlightening & life changing. Have a nice day!
I have PCOS and I am genderfluid, sometimes I wonder if the high testosterone had something to do with my gender identity, but hey, I am happy and I have an amazing family and kind partner so who cares
I suspect to be intersex. I have always been underweight. I am a 25 years old AMAB and I don't have a lot of thick hair. I can't grow a thick beard.
My voice didn't get very deep and it seems that my puberty is incomplete. My mom told me that a doctor once suggested putting me on steroids when I was eleven years old but she didn't do it.
Maybe a karyotype testing would provide you with some answers (just a thought). Take care!
@@iren66ful Yeah, I wish but I don't have money to get a test right now. Thanks for your comment.
Thank you. 🩵🩵🩵🩵
I have PCOS and have been researching the disorder for over a decade. PCOS is an inflammatory disease which effects various endocrine functions, primarily insulin sensitivity. The effects on the ovaries, weight and body hair are end results of a cascade effect throughout the endocrine system. Additionally, PCOS actually isn’t exclusive to only female anatomy, which is why many endocrinologists are trying to change the name from Polycystic Ovarian Syndrome to “Metabolic Reproductive Disorder”. The same underlying issues that effect the ovaries of female bodies effect male and intersex bodies as well, with different outward manifestations due to different physiology. PCOS is most closely related to diabetes type I and II and other autoimmune disorders and occurs most frequently in related individuals. Those heavily experienced with the science of PCOS aren’t publicly labeling it anything but what it is, a metabolic disorder caused by system wide inflammation. There is evidence that this system-wide low grade inflammation that causes PCOS is likely triggered by intestinal dysbiosis, which itself can be caused by many factors and healed by addressing the cause. There is enough misinformation and dismissiveness about what PCOS is and the health implications (such as increased risk for cardiovascular disease, Hashimoto’s thyroiditis and type 2 diabetes) without labeling the disorder an intersex condition. We need to do better for people suffering from PCOS than trying to make the disorder fit into an individual’s personal identity. PCOS is not an identity, it is a health disorder that can be managed and even reversed with lifestyle changes and/or medication. People should be able to identify however they want, but lumping a complicated metabolic disorder such as PCOS into an identity category distracts from the health implications of the actual disorder and does a disservice to people who benefit from its medical diagnosis and treatment as such.
I don't think intersex is an "identity category" either though. You either are intersex or not. It's not something you can identify as.
I agree with you there.
I was diagnosed with pcos based follicles on my right ovary and more than average facial hair that I thought was ethnic and have had since before puberty. But I have normal periods and I stay thin easily. When I do gain weight it goes to my hips and I have small shoulders. I'm really worried that I won't ever get pregnant.
We are a system diagnosed with PCOS. We never grew a beard or had "too much hair" in an area. We did struggle with puberty though. having PCOS was difficult especially through puberty, it was extremely uncomfortable and our hormones even now as a 17 year old there is still negative stigma about the way our PCOS symptoms present themselves. We have a pretty "normal" looking vagina but we're still questioning if we count as intersex.
(Just so you know, we didnt develop too much because we were born when out birth giver was 6 months pregnant. Idk if facial hair would have been a problem if we werent a premie)
Maybe this is because of us being a system and having different gender identities but our body looks androgynous to most of us excluding our stereotypical AFAB traits.
I mean, not sure if AFAB people have a snail trail but yknow, haha
Can intersex people have pcos? And I mean not just pcos
thank you for making this video!!! (and thanks for the visual reference of that umbrella!!!)
Wow… I had this since 12 and i have boyisms even though I’m a woman of the straightest kind. 🤔 I had a hard time being smooth skinned 😔
Perfectly explained !
Thank you for sharing
Angel hugs and blessings to you and yours 🕊
superb clarity! thank you :D
I am looking for intersex woman for long term relationship love and soulmate .. please help
Just a super validating, true and useful video, thanks.
I don’t feel intersex, I feel like a woman for sure.
Lmfao k😂
you can be a cisgender woman who is intersex
Intersex isn’t something you “feel” though-
Intersexuality exists in body not in brain .
My Body shows intersexuality while in brain I don't feel like a man or woman so I identify as human.
I do not have PCOS, I have another condition (tumor producing prolactin) that blocks feminine hormones and raises male hormones.
Since those fluctuations made me feel like both woman and a man, I'd say, neither I, nor PCOS patients are intersex, since there are too many sexual hormone disorders in the population that are perfectly curable.
You can't "cure" true intersex. What's your opinion?
2:08 Facts.
Well of course it is. Instead of ovaries popping out eggs for fertility, they become all grape shaped and pump out testosterone often to high enough levels that secondary male sex characteristics start to grow. That means beard, body hair, change in fat distribution, loss of sub-Q fat, skin thickening, and phallic growth. This means an increase in the size of the glans and lengthening of the shaft, although the underside will still be open so don't expect to see the labia fuse to form a scrotum or the underside of the phallus to fuse to form a urine carrying tube. That sort of thing has to happen in a fetus and PCOS is way too late for that. However, her menstrual cycle will go off line or irregular. She'll loose fertility, might have miscarriages if she does get pregnant and of course with all the extra testosterone her body won't exactly be a friendly place for a fetus so... If you absolutely MUST be a mother... there are 200,000 children available for adoption in the USA ever day so... intersex may mean some unusual life experiences but it is never boring.
Hi, infertility isn't an inevitably for people with high testosterone as in PCOS, this misinformation has spread havoc among trans men and non binary people on testosterone because people are told they won't have periods, won't have to use birth control or abortions etc. So just as with trans men and enbies, people with pcos don't have a body inherently antagonistic to a foetus and it varies from person to person how their fertility is affected.
im so happy
Answer: no. It is not. They are unambiguously women and PCOS is not officially declared an intersex condition.
It's solely for women as only women have ovaries. DSDs operate under a different classification system. Women with facial hair aren't men.
Yikes. No, usually only people assigned female at birth have ovaries, not just women. That includes cis women, trans men, and some nonbinary people. And please don't use the term DSD. Plenty of intersex people prefer VSC (variation(s) of sex characteristics). Also, sex and gender are different. Intersex has to do with sex, while men and women have to do with gender.
@@madijennings7396 Yikes, no one is assigned a sex, it's observed.
Yikes, trans men are female who like to use their female reproductive organs to get pregnant.
Yikes, intersex people aren't separate sexes and you troons really can't learn that.
Yikes, biological females are the only ones who get pregnant, not gender identities.
Yikes, no human is non binary, it's entirely a human construct. Only AFAB enbies get mastectomies while AMAB enbies wear makeup.
Yikes, almost as if there's a trend there.
I’m a transmasc with facial hair :::::
But there are rare genetic cases of intersex men with ovaries and testies…
@@scubatuba1083 Ovotestes relies on specific cases. They are not both sexes. They usually produce sperm, making them male.
As a STEM major with a BS in Public Health, I vehemently disagree with this video and find it extremely dangerous that this is being shown in certain college classes, and has likely been seen by youth. You can’t just invent a third sex for people “in the fuzzy zone” and call it intersex based on a hormonal imbalance. Does a male with erectile dysfunction become intersex too by that logic? Unless one’s chromosome are XXY, XO, etc. they are not intersex. Gender is another story as it’s a social construct by definition, but sex is biologically based on chromosomes. You also completely discredited the scientific community and equated scientific facts to eugenics and white supremacy. This fake science is absolutely ludicrous. Please learn to separate sociology from biology.
As a woman with PCOS, I find this video full of half-truths and misinformations and therefore incredibly problematic. Maybe YOU should talk to some actual PCOS sufferers before making a video like this. Let´s first look at the fact. PCOS, as the name says, means polycystic ovary SYNDROME. A syndrome means a collection of symptomes, which explains why PCOS sufferers have a wide variety of symptoms and facial hair is only affecting some, but by far not all women (I never had an issue with it, and many women I know). Also, as the name says, PCOS has to do with cysts in otherwise fuctioning ovaries, which is what women have. What happens is that eggs do not develop properly, but are stuck to the ovaries as cysts, causing the ovary to produce more testosterone that a woman usually would, which in turn makes thr problem worse (there is also a connection with insuline resistance). So why is that not an intersex condition? First of all, higher testosterone levels do not make you a man or intersex, they make you a woman with higher levels of testosterone. Second, there are many things you can do to get your cycles and hormones back into balance, from lifestyle to medication, and even concieve children if that is what you want. My hormones are no longer elevated, I have no more cysts and a regular cycle. Was I therefore part-time intersex, in your definition?
you shouldn't assume you know everything about PCOS just because you have it. hans clearly did enough research to be able to make this video. i have PCOS as well, and i don't have cysts. my ovaries just make too much androgens. the diagnostic criteria for PCOS is 2 out of 3 of the following: hyperandrogenism, ovulatory dysfunction, and polycystic ovaries. i have hyperandrogenism and ovulatory dysfunction (basically no periods), but not polycystic ovaries. there are also probably people who have PCOS without hyperandrogenism, as you seem to describe, and it would make total sense for those people to not identify as intersex considering how the experience of being intersex has a lot to do with societal experiences of being treated differently for your secondary sex characteristics and comparatively less to do with the actual anatomical differences. so yes, people with PCOS who identify as women are women with higher levels of testosterone. saying that people with PCOS can be considered intersex is not saying that everyone with PCOS is now intersex and has to identify with that word. to answer your last question, you were not "part-time intersex", and if you haven't had facial hair, android fat distribution, etc. then yeah, i understand why you've never considered yourself to be intersex.
@@rainbowbugjar I was diagnosed with PCOS two decades ago, and spent 20 years researching the topic, which is why I come to the conclusion that Hans did not do enough research. Also, being intersex is not something "social" or "something you consider yourself to be / identfy" as, but a cleary diagnosable medical condition / diference. What you say is that some people with the same medical condition can be intersex while others are not, which contradicts itself. Also, things like fat distribution and facial hair in PCOS can be reversed in a part of the cases with medication / lifestyle changes (also associating more facial hair with "intersex" is actualy a bit racist since darker skinned women tend to have more facial / body hair, and that does not make them any less of a woman!) PCOS also has more that 3 diagnostic criteria, insuline resistance can also be very important for the diagnosis. You may ask yourself why I even bother to write these posts. In the last year or so, I have seen more and more posts claiming PCOS to be an intersex condition. Interestingly enough, these claims were never made by doctors or scientists, but always by activits - what they try to do is to shoehorn medical conditions like PCOS into the intersex category to make it appear much larger than it actually is (0,02%), to create some artificial "gotcha" against gender binary. I find that extremely problematic, as it can lead women to become misinformed and not seek the best treatment they can get, and it can be extremely traumatising for women with PCOS to be called "manly" and so on. Please leave activism out of women´s health.
@@Rhejcka i said being intersex has a lot to do with social experience and identity, not that it is entirely that. "intersex" is not a diagnosable medical condition, but rather an umbrella term for many different experiences that involve many different diagnosable medical conditions. since some people with PCOS do not have hyperandrogenism, that does mean that those people do not fall under the intersex umbrella. but PCOS phenotype-a as it's sometimes called, the kind 99% of us have that includes hyperandrogenism, falls under the intersex umbrella because hyperandrogenism is an intersex trait. and doctors also medicate and treat CAH, since in some cases there are aspects of CAH that can be life threatening, but are you trying to say that people with CAH who are on hormone replacement therapy aren't intersex once their secondary sex characteristics are being "treated"? facial hair will result in societal pressure to conform to beauty standards, that's simply a fact of society. i don't personally think that body hair should be gendered, but both intersex people and women of color will experience discrimination because body hair is gendered in our society. many marginalized groups have overlapping experiences. you seem to think that if someone is intersex that means they can't be a cisgender woman, which is false. if you're assigned female at birth and identify as a woman, you're a cisgender woman. and then when you go through puberty and have PCOS, you might get assigned female again because doctors will put you on female hormones. so now you're double gender-affirmed, actually ! insulin resistance is a common symptom of PCOS but it is not one of the three diagnostic criteria. simply googling PCOS diagnostic criteria will give you plenty of doctor-approved results. it's actually very harmful to treat the existence of intersex people as a gotcha against the gender binary since being intersex and being transgender should not be conflated. parents assuming that their child being intersex means they'll be trans has lead to a lot of detransitioned intersex people with grudges against the LGBT community. i don't see how acknowledging that PCOS is intersex is specifically what makes people call women with PCOS manly. i was called manly as soon as i started puberty, regardless of whether i or anyone else knew i had PCOS. doctors don't want to consider PCOS intersex for the same reason some doctors don't consider CAH to be intersex. both PCOS and CAH involve hormonal differences which are more "treatable" than traits like having internal testes or ovotestes. this is problematic because categorizing PCOS and CAH as "fixable" allows doctors to continue performing clitorectomies/clitoroplasties on children. a lot of the rhetoric you're using kisses doctors asses as if they don't force surgeries and hormonal treatments onto people. here is a quote from one of the articles linked in the description: "A female friend born with internal testes once told me, “I guess I’m technically intersex, but I don’t care or call myself that. I’m just a cisgender woman who has testes.” This just goes to show that ideas about who falls into “intersex” vary widely. Perhaps the real question is not “who counts as intersex” but: how can we all be free from harmful expectations on our bodies, and what kind of community do we need to build to achieve that world?" but since you've ended your comment with "Please leave activism out of women´s health." i'm not sure you're willing to try and wrap your head around that.
@@rainbowbugjar "i said being intersex has a lot to do with social experience and identity". No it does not. Intersex conditions - or as they are more recently called since the term "intersex" is misleading - DSD or VSD (disorders / differences / variations of sexual development) is a set of - as the name says - differences or disorders of sexual development that develop in utrero (the reason the term intersex is used less and less is because those conditions are actually sex specific) PCOS is not a disorder of sexual development, and it does not develop in utero, therefore: not an intersex condition. If you have ovotestes, they stay a part of your body. If you have cysts in your ovaries and elevated testosterone levels, there are ways to improve your condition (and get both back to normal). Also, CAH and PCOS are not the same thing (though women with CAH might sometimes be misdiagnosed with PCOS). if you do not want body hair to be gendered, please do not call women with more body hair "intersex" as it implies that such women are not entirely female. Also, unless you fall into a tiny category of DSD people whose sex can not be determined at birth, your sex is not "assigned" at birth, it is merely observed (also the sex of those DSD babies can nowadays be determined by checking the chromosomes). You do not get "assigned " female when they dignose you with PCOS since that is only a condition biological women can get (which does not mean I agree with giving women with PCOS the pill by default - I assume that is what you mean by "female hormones" since there might be better treatment options. Also, there are zero links between doctors treating PCOS and cliterectomies, and the practice of operating on DSD babies´genitals is now widely criticised and even forbidden in many countries . If you want to create a world without expectations, you need to get rid of all of the little boxes, and accept people as complex individuals and accept yourself exactly as you are. Identity politics do the exact opposite: they create all of the little boxes that people can "identify" into, no matter is this identity is based on facts or not. In the long run, this is not helpful to anybody.
@@Rhejcka Neither Hans nor anyone else is forcing you or any other person with PCOS to identify as intersex. Symptoms are broad. You cannot speak for anyone's lived experience with PCOS other than your own. You already said you never dealt with facial hair or secondary male sex characteristics so maybe leave those of us who have and have suffered the social stigmas of that alone? No one is forcing a label onto you or anyone else. And it's not hurting YOU for others who have had a different experience with this disease to contextualize it within an intersex understanding. And before you say that it hurts other intersex people...I've found the community to be quite welcoming. Also, calling PCOS "women's health" totally erases the trans men and non-binary people who also suffer from this disease.
Hi im not invalidating anyone elses experiences here but i dont believe pcos is an intersex condition. I have severe hirtuism and small hips and belly fat but very large breasts. I have mood swings and all that could be obviously down to excess testosterone. However. All my body parts and gentetalia are female . My periods are regular but i do have severe pms that could also be excess testosterone but im not stronger than other females and apart from that "feel" and have also always felt very feminine and am attracted to masculine men . I actually find videos like this triggering. Ive nothing against people who are genuinely intersex but having a little excess male hormone does not make me male. I know lots of women with pcos who are very feminine and if your not i dont believe its down to pcos. Videos like this shouldn't be made unless your a medical professional and i knowb100% im a woman.